Guild Wars 2

yup thats right a Global nerf is what he game needs currently Direct and Condition damage as way off the charts to the point players can have 3000+ armor and will get downed just as fast as if they ran 1900 armor wich is why everyone simply runs offensive stuff since defensive stats are near meaningless

perhaps Ferocity is a step in the right direction as that way they could actually scale the stat since its not a fixed percent value

So you’re saying that the damage reduction granted by armor doesn’t scale well, and the most efficient way of fixing this is to nerf every other stat and offensive power in the game. Interesting.

I disagree and think that traiting for defense needs to be buffed a bit. There’s just too much of the one or two shot kills in this game. All of that work getting better armor, etc and it feels pointless. Make it more useful to trait for something other than damage and health regen.. I’m speaking mostly of pve.

Rezzet.3614:

yup thats right a Global nerf is what he game needs currently Direct and Condition damage as way off the charts to the point players can have 3000+ armor and will get downed just as fast as if they ran 1900 armor wich is why everyone simply runs offensive stuff since defensive stats are near meaningless

perhaps Ferocity is a step in the right direction as that way they could actually scale the stat since its not a fixed percent value

I’m not so sure I agree with you here.

“players can have 3000+ armor and will get downed just as fast as if they ran 1900 armor "

The above quote is true in some cases but they are few. Also you have to look at the why and how these players are getting downed just as quickly. I main an engi who has 3200 Armour when using a flamethrower and I can tell you the ways I get downed as quickly as lower armoured people.

1 – Condition damage – a lot of it and not removing any of it.
2 – Running into a room/area full of mobs thinking I am invincible and taking all agro by Aoe-ing too many at a time.

3 – Not dodging/avoiding that boss’s (or environment traps etc) special/powerful attack when I am supposed to.

Now let’s have a look at these 3 ways that I see I take fast damage that downs me. In case number one this is SUPPOSED to be high armoured players weakness. You NEED to build to remove condition as well as have a lot of healing options with regens being highly recommended.

In case number 2 this is perfectly fine and is the players fault. Having high armour in this game is not meant to make you invincible or what other games would call a tank. It is meant to make you a little bit more survivable so that you can take a fair few extra hits from a single mob/boss. Anytime you fight a group of mobs or are taking the majority of their attacks (especially ranged attacks which can add the damage up fast from a lot of sources) you are and SHOULD be at risk of being downed fast. Learn to pullback when you have to and to drop some of that aggro, perhaps not to aoe so many or to single out targets instead.

3 – Everyone SHOULD have to avoid mob’s/bosses special attacks. Again being a survival build should not make you invincible to bosses powerful attacks, you should still have to avoid their circles or other tells. In general as my main I do notice I can usually take an extra hit or 2 from a mob’s/bosses powerful attack and that can be all the difference in the world from being insta-downed and getting my health back up as well as other players back on their feet.

I think the system right now in most cases is fine. People just need to be aware of what having high armour is meant to mean. Also while partying in groups they need/should be aware of how many other players are running survival builds so they can play with that info to plan for things better if things do go sour.

Lastly I would like to say if you are meaning mainly PvP my case number 2 applies. I play a fair bit of both WvW and sPvP and I run my survival build in both places. Everything I said above also applies there from my experiances and what I see.

I don’t believe you actually play WvW where you would actually notice the differences.

I’ve ran glass and bunker and had some numbers in between and I can tell you that at 3200 armor I can absorb a lot of damage. Not going to happen with a lower armored set.

I agree with the OP. Damage is too high across the board and has been forever.

Svarty.8019:

I agree with the OP. Damage is too high across the board and has been forever.

If anything we attack far too fast. Multiply that by a lot of enemies attacking fast = maybe too much damage. Go fight any random mob in PVE, you will see that they attack far, far slower than we do.

I think the problem is the general lack of diminishing returns across the board on stats. eg: +100 power at 1000 power should be worth more in terms of %dmg increase than +100 power at 2200 power.

think someone touched on it further up – speed.

majority of classes can deal massive dmg in a very small timeframe eg; <10s.

Provided that some are immob – pretty much nothing can be done even when u have +3k armor and 20k hp… still means nothing.

I tested this since im running a knights war shout build. ran into a zerg about 5 times. without a dodge or evade (from weap skills) pretty much down within 5-10s. dodges + evades i last alot longer ofc. closer to the 1-3 mins.

i think that toughness/armor rating needs to be scaled better – is it actually working correctly to the point we can get exact calculations?

There’s no need for diminishing returns because there is no gear inflation, they simply exist in other games because they increase the gear level every few months which causes several balancing issues.

How about… a buff on defensive abilities instead?

they should introduce new stats i.e. Resistance to mitigate condition damage. as of right now, condition damage bypass armor, and nothing mitigate the damage. all you can do now either cleanse it or reduce the condition duration.

bwillb.2165:

How about… a buff on defensive abilities instead?

They are already more than enough right now to mitigate all/enough damage for PvE in the hands of a good player, hence people run zero toughness and vit on their gear.

Bad idea. A global damage nerf just makes everything harder for everyone.

What’s the point of having Ascended gear if you’re going to just nerf everybody anyway?

If your complaint about people with lots of toughness getting downed quickly is truly valid and not just something made up then they should consider a global defense/damage-mitigation buff on players, not a global damage nerf to make everything in PvE harder causing us all to spend more gold dying and repairing, more time trying to kill a boss, and more resources grinding along the gear treadmill. Boooooo.

You can’t really be a good “tank” by only putting points into armor, you need more defensive skills and traits than that. Regen is good. Block. Dodge. Evade. Blindness. Chill. Poison.

There is no skill required to put some points into armor and absorb all incoming damage. If ArenaNet buff armor and mitigation of damage it won’t require any skill to “tank”.

Arnekun.6170:

Bad idea. A global damage nerf just makes everything harder for everyone.

What’s the point of having Ascended gear if you’re going to just nerf everybody anyway?

If your complaint about people with lots of toughness getting downed quickly is truly valid and not just something made up then they should consider a global defense/damage-mitigation buff on players, not a global damage nerf to make everything in PvE harder causing us all to spend more gold dying and repairing, more time trying to kill a boss, and more resources grinding along the gear treadmill. Boooooo.

Don’t be ridiculous. Something as extreme as a heavy blanket nerf to damage would mandate PVE mob and boss health adjustment. Don’t get bent out of shape thinking omg damage nerf equals slower dungeon crawls. The player damage output possible in relation to player hp and armor needs to go down one way or another. WoW at one point had this problem. PVP was all one shots so it was really just about who fired first and nothing else. So they scaled down damage and mob health and suddenly pvp fights lasted longer than 5 seconds and everyone had to think about more than dps with out any noticeable change to PVE content. Doesn’t need to be done in the same manner but somehow player on player damage needs to go down so fight times and strategy can go up.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

I don’t believe you actually play WvW where you would actually notice the differences.

I’ve ran glass and bunker and had some numbers in between and I can tell you that at 3200 armor I can absorb a lot of damage. Not going to happen with a lower armored set.

It really depends… the best way to negate damage is simply to have a lot of mobility in WvW. I have been chased by 30 people a lot of times. My guardian bunker didn’t survive those encounters. My d/d ele, greatsword/hammer warrior, shortbow + sword/dagger thief, PU mesmer do however survive those encounters, simply by negating the kills, and fyi they’re all glass.

In WvW armour doesn’t matter. In WvW mobility and high damage matters, because that’s the only way to kill a zerg or to get away from it. If I get hit by 30 people with my slowpoke guardian with his focus/mace & greatsword with shelter and renewed focus, hell, I survive 5 seconds longer than my glass cannon warrior, with the only difference that my glass cannon warrior manages to get away a lot more than my guardian.

I have a different proposal. If your toughness value goes above 1,5k- 1,75k- 2k- 2,25k- 2,5k-… you get an option to replace skills on your weapon with more tank-related ones.

They could be simple variations, adding protection, regeneration or a block on them, or they coul be totally new skills. The same should apply for power values above 1,75k- 2k- 2,25k- … and healing power.

Healing power and toughness would need a serious buff first though, because the max healing power one can get is 1,5k-1,7k, where toughness can reach 2k if you stack a lot of it, but power easily goes 2,5k-3k (especially with might & bloodlust).

Damage nerfing is not a solution – it’s a lazy fix and it won’t happen.

Sirendor.1394:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

I don’t believe you actually play WvW where you would actually notice the differences.

I’ve ran glass and bunker and had some numbers in between and I can tell you that at 3200 armor I can absorb a lot of damage. Not going to happen with a lower armored set.

It really depends… the best way to negate damage is simply to have a lot of mobility in WvW. I have been chased by 30 people a lot of times. My guardian bunker didn’t survive those encounters. My d/d ele, greatsword/hammer warrior, shortbow + sword/dagger thief, PU mesmer do however survive those encounters, simply by negating the kills, and fyi they’re all glass.

In WvW armour doesn’t matter. In WvW mobility and high damage matters, because that’s the only way to kill a zerg or to get away from it. If I get hit by 30 people with my slowpoke guardian with his focus/mace & greatsword with shelter and renewed focus, hell, I survive 5 seconds longer than my glass cannon warrior, with the only difference that my glass cannon warrior manages to get away a lot more than my guardian.

Armor does matter. I’m not going to survive as glass when I’m diving in to the other zerg. Done it and I found that dodges run out fast and something else was needed.

It may not matter as much small group, I didn’t do that as much as zerg and I was always in my zerg build when fighting small group, but in zerg fights, I didn’t survive long without the toughness that I stacked. When I tried glass, I was always downed first since I’m usually one of the first to contact the other zerg, and when I bunkered up, I ended up surviving the encounters. Not sure why you were only able to survive for 5 seconds more in a zerg on your bunker. Results can vary though.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Sirendor.1394:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

I don’t believe you actually play WvW where you would actually notice the differences.

I’ve ran glass and bunker and had some numbers in between and I can tell you that at 3200 armor I can absorb a lot of damage. Not going to happen with a lower armored set.

It really depends… the best way to negate damage is simply to have a lot of mobility in WvW. I have been chased by 30 people a lot of times. My guardian bunker didn’t survive those encounters. My d/d ele, greatsword/hammer warrior, shortbow + sword/dagger thief, PU mesmer do however survive those encounters, simply by negating the kills, and fyi they’re all glass.

In WvW armour doesn’t matter. In WvW mobility and high damage matters, because that’s the only way to kill a zerg or to get away from it. If I get hit by 30 people with my slowpoke guardian with his focus/mace & greatsword with shelter and renewed focus, hell, I survive 5 seconds longer than my glass cannon warrior, with the only difference that my glass cannon warrior manages to get away a lot more than my guardian.

Armor does matter. I’m not going to survive as glass when I’m diving in to the other zerg. Done it and I found that dodges run out fast and something else was needed.

It may not matter as much small group, I didn’t do that as much as zerg and I was always in my zerg build when fighting small group, but in zerg fights, I didn’t survive long without the toughness that I stacked. When I tried glass, I was always downed first since I’m usually one of the first to contact the other zerg, and when I bunkered up, I ended up surviving the encounters.

I don’t do zerg fights anymore since like a year.
They hardly require any skill and their meta is PVT gear tbh. Been there, done that.

Harper.4173:

Damage nerfing is not a solution – it’s a lazy fix and it won’t happen.

They are lazy. We know this because the AI of the Ranger pets isn’t fixed because of the “massive” work load it would put on them. It will happen if what Anet said they are going to do happens ala 10% nerf on pure DPS builds… which is what I run on 5 or my 7 toons.

The problem here is that in GW2 there are three very different games with three very different playstyles, requiring three very different fixes; PvP, PvE, WvW and they’re all instanced. Normally, this shouldn’t be a problem but for Anet? Idk. As far as I’m concerned PvE should be of #1 concern for an MMO.
Which is why MMO’s should just have open world PvP/GvG and put the PvP instances on the back burner, especially when you’re having this much trouble.

Sirendor.1394:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Sirendor.1394:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

I don’t believe you actually play WvW where you would actually notice the differences.

I’ve ran glass and bunker and had some numbers in between and I can tell you that at 3200 armor I can absorb a lot of damage. Not going to happen with a lower armored set.

It really depends… the best way to negate damage is simply to have a lot of mobility in WvW. I have been chased by 30 people a lot of times. My guardian bunker didn’t survive those encounters. My d/d ele, greatsword/hammer warrior, shortbow + sword/dagger thief, PU mesmer do however survive those encounters, simply by negating the kills, and fyi they’re all glass.

In WvW armour doesn’t matter. In WvW mobility and high damage matters, because that’s the only way to kill a zerg or to get away from it. If I get hit by 30 people with my slowpoke guardian with his focus/mace & greatsword with shelter and renewed focus, hell, I survive 5 seconds longer than my glass cannon warrior, with the only difference that my glass cannon warrior manages to get away a lot more than my guardian.

Armor does matter. I’m not going to survive as glass when I’m diving in to the other zerg. Done it and I found that dodges run out fast and something else was needed.

It may not matter as much small group, I didn’t do that as much as zerg and I was always in my zerg build when fighting small group, but in zerg fights, I didn’t survive long without the toughness that I stacked. When I tried glass, I was always downed first since I’m usually one of the first to contact the other zerg, and when I bunkered up, I ended up surviving the encounters.

I don’t do zerg fights anymore since like a year.
They hardly require any skill and their meta is PVT gear tbh. Been there, done that.

None of the combat in this game really requires skill. If you know how to push a button and manage your cool downs, you can succeed.

Sirendor.1394:

I have a different proposal. If your toughness value goes above 1,5k- 1,75k- 2k- 2,25k- 2,5k-… you get an option to replace skills on your weapon with more tank-related ones.

They could be simple variations, adding protection, regeneration or a block on them, or they coul be totally new skills. The same should apply for power values above 1,75k- 2k- 2,25k- … and healing power.

Healing power and toughness would need a serious buff first though, because the max healing power one can get is 1,5k-1,7k, where toughness can reach 2k if you stack a lot of it, but power easily goes 2,5k-3k (especially with might & bloodlust).

I kind of like the idea of weapon skills changing to match your stats… Someone who has beefed up their muscles would handle a sword differently than someone who has mastered their accuracy on vital organs.

You can adjust your gear/traits to reduce condition damage if you choose to.

Harper.4173:

Damage nerfing is not a solution – it’s a lazy fix and it won’t happen.

I agree that nerfing damage non-selectively is not a good solution. It’s not lazy per se, but it is easier to program than making other changes that require reprogramming the way mobs and/or players attack. Thus, as a solution, it is more cost effective. As to, “It won’t happen” … see Ferocity. Its formula reportedly will result in less damage across the board for all crit builds.