Guild Wars 2

Fafnir.5124:

Without a difficult death system nothing is truly difficult in the game. It is so easy to level in GW2 I honestly think you should be reset to level 1 honestly there would be no zerkers then and Anet would finally be able to dish out loot for bosses. End game wise it only takes you like 2 weeks to make an 80. Would remove a lot of boredum that is for sure.

This is an anti-zerker thread in disguise, it appears.

Katai.6240:

Death penalties tend to impact games like this rather negatively. It creates an environment where people are much more careful, as well as make people much more hostile towards one another. Here are some things I noticed in games that have moderate to severe death penalties.

• People don’t try content until level cap with full equipment. If a dungeon is marked at level 20, people still won’t do it until they reach level cap. This is because death penalty slows them down on the way to the cap (either with an exp or gold penalty). Most dungeons and new areas will be avoided by the general population until a guide is posted. New areas won’t be visited until the player is overleveled for that area’s level rating (won’t go into a level 20 zone until you’re level 30).
• Difficult content will be ignored. Even with good rewards, people will avoid the hard content. Boss Blitz causes a lot of deaths, for instance. People would avoid this event completely if there was a harsh death penalty, and people will always rely on the safest way to earn rewards.
• Experimentation of builds will not happen. People want to use safe builds to keep themselves from dying. While sub-optimal/personalized builds are uncommon now, a death penalty will render them extinct.
• People will blame deaths on party members. We already have a lot of toxicity in Dungeons and Fractals parties. Harsh death penalties will only magnify this problem, as toxic players will blame and verbally abuse others for their deaths.

I would vote no on harsh death penalties. I don’t see any reason to stifle a person’s sense of adventure with the sense of fear. Why would you stop people from conquering the Temple of Lyssa with the threat of loss exp or gold. Why would anyone do a jumping puzzle if they’ll lose gold/exp if they happen to die?

Removing anything from your inventory, gold or otherwise, or possibly lowering a character’s level is way too harsh in my opinion. I would still support a minor death penalty, like the one we saw in GW1, that increases the more you die (unless you were to get rid of the penalty before dying again).

A death penalty may sound bad to many people, I understand that, but the game mechanic we have now allows players to literally throw themselves at enemies with reckless abandon – with no consequence if they die. It is why, whether we like it or not, DPS heavy builds are the meta. Just pump as much damage into the enemy as you can, as fast as you can, without any sense of caution.

Drakent.9605:

putting death penalty on this game will give ppl more reason to run zerker build over anything else so is a bad idea

I don’t understand how you came to this conclusion. It would weed out those that aren’t good with their combat/profession mechanics from those that are. Most people that wear zerker are not skilled in GW2 combat. This would make it so, for the sake of surviving, more people would turn to other armor stats. Or so I believe.

The -15% penalty, per death, isn’t “harsh” or “severe” in my book. Its not taking anything from your inventory, its not resetting you in experience gained, and its not game breaking. It also can be countered afterwards by gaining more experience.

It’s really a question of communities. There are games for those who enjoy the thrill of death penalties and there are games for those who don’t.

DarkWasp.7291:

It’s really a question of communities. There are games for those who enjoy the thrill of death penalties and there are games for those who don’t.

Um…

You could use that statement to voice opposition to ANY proposed change in GW2.
So we should never ever voice our likes/dislikes about GW2?
We should never offer suggestions for improvement? For growth?
I’m sorry but I didn’t buy GW2 for it to stay static and unchanging for all eternity.

If you can tell me why a Death Penalty, which is the topic at hand, is entirely bad for GW2 as it is today – That’d be more constructive. Seriously, I’d like to hear from more people on this.

Also don’t think that DP would have to be the severe suggestion that the OP stated.

OP, this is why the Dev’s shouldn’t listen to players so much.

Also, what is with all this whine lately about easy/difficulty and if players are good or not? The concept of a video game is first and foremost to have FUN! You aren’t supposed to be gaining self worth from it. So who cares how good you are in it? The important part is having fun! And, there is no fun to be had by having death penalties.

It’s like players asking for harder content like Liadri. After beating I had a big “Kitten u” sensation too. Though that lasted for all of about two minutes. It’s not worth the hour of annoyance and not having fun to do it. It was a net loss of fun!

This is a discussion on ways DP can be implemented impact it would have on GW2 and is mostly in response to the only death penalty being removed and impact DP have on play styles and game structure in GW2. If there is no risk there will never be a reward.

On side note leveling is so easy in this game what investment do you really have in your characters. Death is something that happens numerous times to all players in this game to assign. If a value isn’t assigned to death life/game play in the game also has no value. To have anything the opposite must exist too.

How about….no. Death penalties? Seriously? Armor repair and waypointing back, along with enemies resetting isn’t bad enough?

I already don’t like dying and try not to. But there are times where you simply cannot prevent it, like in SPvP or WvW….which is why I tend to stick away from those.

Speaking of that, would these death penalties carry over into that too? Those modes are already bad enough as it is…

So no. No no no no no. Death penalties will either be annoying or infuriating. And with instant down/kill gimmicks associated with certain bosses (Kudu and Liadri coming to mind, though not the only ones, I’m sure), adding death penalties would just rub more salt into the wound. No thanks.

Nilkemia.8507:

How about….no. Death penalties? Seriously? Armor repair and waypointing back, along with enemies resetting isn’t bad enough?

Yes, some of us are serious. We’re not just pulling your leg.
*Armor repair? What repair? It’s free now. Also damaged armor has no effect on your character, whatsoever, only broken does. If I’m wrong in that please feel free to correct me.
*Waypointing? Was a pain, cost wise, nearly 2 years ago when the cost was painful. Now its a joke.
*Enemies resetting? Well they don’t reset in a zerg situation (with the exception when it bugs out). If you’re talking about dungeon runs and you all got your kitten handed to you, well then you failed. Play smarter.

Though I do agree that DP wouldn’t be a good fit for PvP. However I think it could fit into PvE/WvW.

You’re claiming there is no death penalty. Sounds like you’re saying that the time it costs you/you group isn’t a penalty. The phrase “time is money” comes to mind.

Another way to look at it, why didn’t they just remove the possibility of death. If it’s not a penalty, then I see no point in it being in the game at all.

It’s not a penalty. It is a failure condition.

Erus Keb.8379:

You’re claiming there is no death penalty. Sounds like you’re saying that the time it costs you/you group isn’t a penalty.

Yes, I’m saying there is no death penalty.
Yes, I’m saying that the “time sink” to run back isn’t a penalty.

A few people have tried comparing it to jumping puzzles on this thread. That they’re already difficult because you fail and have to restart. I’m sorry but that doesn’t fly the same way in combat, in GW2. If it were the same, if it were something you could compare to this topic, then you would be able to complete a jumping puzzle just by sheer repetition and not by any improvement of skill.

“We died sooo many times but that puzzle caved eventually! Yeah! Was no match for us!”

Learning a puzzle and how to respond to it accordingly… That’s something worth doing.
Attacking an enemy with no thought outside of max DPS, safety in numbers, and repetition. I’m sorry if it offends anyone but that is something I find to be pathetic, as far as game mechanics go.
There is very little in this game that demands a player to pay attention and play as if dying actually meant something, or living for that matter. A relatively small DP may just be the slap in people’s faces that is needed to wake them up.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

It’s not a penalty. It is a failure condition.

Heh. Cute.

A “failure condition” that could be removed as well, if it were implemented like it was in GW1.

Azhure.1857:

Nilkemia.8507:

How about….no. Death penalties? Seriously? Armor repair and waypointing back, along with enemies resetting isn’t bad enough?

Yes, some of us are serious. We’re not just pulling your leg.
*Armor repair? What repair? It’s free now. Also damaged armor has no effect on your character, whatsoever, only broken does. If I’m wrong in that please feel free to correct me.

True. I guess I’m the only one who gets a little annoyed at the yellow icon(s) when armor is damaged, and thus feels compelled to repair it right away so I don’t have to look at them. In fact, without the repair cost being there anymore, there really isn’t even a point to armor damage at all. I’m glad the cost is gone, but I just feel like it should’ve been removed completely in that case.

*Waypointing? Was a pain, cost wise, nearly 2 years ago when the cost was painful. Now its a joke.
*Enemies resetting? Well they don’t reset in a zerg situation (with the exception when it bugs out). If you’re talking about dungeon runs and you all got your kitten handed to you, well then you failed. Play smarter.

To be fair, the cost isn’t bad. I’m referring more to dungeons, some of which have paths where waypoints are often well apart from each other and where the bosses are sometimes. However, there are certain areas in PvE where that can get annoying (I’m looking at you, Temple of Grenth!), as well as WvW where waypoints are pretty much only at the spawn points and at certain structures (if they’re built first)

Though I do agree that DP wouldn’t be a good fit for PvP. However I think it could fit into PvE/WvW.

I still don’t see the point of adding one. It’ll just annoy players who are good and try not to die, but end up in that situation from time to time, turn off newer players who aren’t quite skilled yet, and make WvW even worse than it already is.

Depending on the type of penalty, outnumbered forces in WvW may leave if they keep dying over and over.

And, once again…Adding a death penalty with bosses that have instant kill/down gimmicks will not make anything more fun. So…yeah. No death penalty please. I hate dying already, no need to make me hate it more.

I actually agree with OP in most of the things he’s said.

It’s the primary reason why I want nothing to do with PvP on this game… there is nothing exhilarating about knowing that I gain nothing and lose nothing on the outcome of the fight I’m in. I want to risk not yawn.

In PvE the fact that you can die as many times as you want with no consequence other than having to waypoint (or wait for the others to get ooc if you’re in a dungeon) leads me to believe that part of the reason there are so many people reluctant to care about getting better at the game is because they’re not encouraged to. Players won’t care about survival if they don’t lose anything from death.

There’s a lot of upsides and downsides to games that have loss associated with failure, so it’s worth discussing instead of immediately dismissing like so many others have been on this thread.

Azhure.1857:

Naevius.3185:

>>Without a difficult death system nothing is truly difficult in the game.

If I pose the problem “What is 2+2?”, it does not get harder just because I threaten to shoot you for a wrong answer. Your logic is flawed.

I think your logic is flawed.

The threat of consequence for a risky action is a great motivator. For some people the threat alone would make it harder for them, because they’d take measures to avoid it (as they should). While others would find it more difficult if they did indeed die in the game and it had some form of penalty (granted being reset is far too extreme).

Currently in GW2…

Player: 2+2=4
ArenaNet: Good job! You’re doing great.

Another player: 2+2=22
ArenaNet: Good job! You’re also doing great.

I thought it was more on the line of:

Player: 2+2=4
Other players: You’re exploiting! Why do you kick me for counting instead of adding? Nerf addition meta plz!

In all seriousness, I think the wasted time is penalty enough, as most of this game’s rewards seems to be about convenience. To me, I think extremely harsh penalties for dying is a somewhat dated concept that just makes gaming more tedious.

I mean, sure old-school style “headbashing until you overcome its content” may have its place, but I wouldn’t want it throughout the game.

Purple Miku.7032:

I actually agree with OP in most of the things he’s said.

It’s the primary reason why I want nothing to do with PvP on this game… there is nothing exhilarating about knowing that I gain nothing and lose nothing on the outcome of the fight I’m in. I want to risk not yawn.

In PvE the fact that you can die as many times as you want with no consequence other than having to waypoint (or wait for the others to get ooc if you’re in a dungeon) leads me to believe that part of the reason there are so many people reluctant to care about getting better at the game is because they’re not encouraged to. Players won’t care about survival if they don’t lose anything from death.

There’s a lot of upsides and downsides to games that have loss associated with failure, so it’s worth discussing instead of immediately dismissing like so many others have been on this thread.

Every pug secretly stacking passive defense and running away at first sign of wipe doesn’t sound very enjoyable to me.

Okay let me just point out something right now as an Engineer, until everyone gets on board about getting them to equalize the system so that “no class is left behind in combat” and “it doesn’t matter which class you bring to the battle” at no time should anything be made more difficult.

Because not all classes are treated equally in PVE when it comes to boons, condition removal, or downed states. And not all roles are where they should be CC, Healing and Condition damage are all very weak. Not to mention pets/summons are terrible in this game.

Fafnir.5124:

Where is the value and accomplishment in a try until you win game. One of the reasones no content is truly hard and rewards will never be good. I argue GW2 has no system and the argument here is that there should be something. As system stands there are dugeon runs people do naked so armor or traiting really does nothing for success of anything. Zerker build is only for time of few mins which still makes me laugh. Because GW2 has attributed no value of life and death of the player there will never be a challenge that cant be over come by repetitive trys..

Dungeon runs people do naked doesn’t say traits and armor are worthless – it says that a good enough person can mitigate a lack of stats with good play.

And the value of “Try until you win” is that tries are limited – either in time (There aren’t infinite seconds in a minute, infinite minutes in an hour, infinite hours in a day, infinite days in a week, infinite weeks in a month, infinite months in a year, or infinite years lifetime), frustration, or chances (Such as Queen’s Gauntlet)

Fafnir.5124:

Death should be advoided….question is why.

Because when you die, you die. In the open world, you get sent back to a waypoint somewhere away from your goal. In dungeons, wiping in a tough encounter means having to start over again.
The “punishment” for failure is the lack of success, and the time it takes to retry. Why does there need to be more than that? This is a game, and relatively speaking, a pretty casual-friendly one. I think this is a good thing.

Fafnir.5124:

anything you do or accomplish is technically easy because no one ever counts the amount of deaths required.

What a weird thing to say. If you’re dying all the time, you will notice. Why do you need to count the number of deaths?

Fafnir.5124:

Everyone is also equivalently skilled cause there is no skill required to stay alive.

Nonsense. Let me tell you something, me and some guildies went into Arah P4 the other night. We wiped on every boss, several times. The whole run took us a whopping FIVE AND A HALF HOURS. Most of us had never done that path before, we were figuring it out as we went along, and each attempt we got a little better. Are we terrible? Maybe. Or maybe we didn’t have the practice and skill required to clear the dungeon in an expedient manner.
Meanwhile, there are people uploading videos of their effortless SOLO fight with Lupicus. So, how do we account for this discrepancy, if staying alive doesn’t require any skill?

Just because you have played the game so much that you know all the fights and can succeed without any problem, that doesn’t make the game easy. It means you are an experienced player. Good for you. How much longer do you think our run of Arah should have taken? 6 hours? 7 hours? 8 hours? Maybe the game should have just kicked us out of the dungeon and locked us out of Arah for a week. Boy, that sure would be a good game, huh? Very “challenging!” Yeah, challenging to enjoy.

Fafnir.5124:

It is so easy to level in GW2 I honestly think you should be reset to level 1

First of all, if you think it should be difficult to level a character, you have some very strange ideas about what kind of game you are playing. Leveling is about learning your profession, seeing the world, experiencing the story, getting acclimated to the mechanics, etc. It is not gruelling, hardcore time.
Second, I have to assume you are being some shade of facetious by saying we should be reset to level 1 if we — I assume — die at some point. That is insane. Have you even thought this through? There is a reason there is no “Hardcore Mode” where your character permanently dies or is reset if you die. People would never take any risks. Nobody would enter PvP or WvW. All characters would be as over-geared and over-leveled for their zones as possible. No one would try anything interesting or challenging, for fear of losing hours and hours of progress. This would not be “exciting,” this would be frustrating. People would not play this game if you couldn’t die. If you’re really serious about this point, you do not understand the most fundamental aspects of game design.

Fafnir.5124:

End game wise it only takes you like 2 weeks to make an 80.

It does not take the average person 2 weeks to make a level 80 character. Maybe that is possible for someone who has already been playing this game since launch, and who has entirely too much time and gold on their hands to buy/grind their way to max level. Those people are a vocal minority, but not ArenaNet’s prime demographic. Most people take a while to get through all the content. Most people are not top-notch, hardcore players with hundreds of gold. Most people die on occasion.

Be glad for yourself that you are such a skill and experienced player, that you hardly ever die. Find a way to profit from the fact that you know the battles and the content so well that you can succeed without any problem. But let’s not kid ourselves — a more severe punishment for death wouldn’t affect you, it would only frustrate and waste the time of other players who aren’t as skilled as you. So, what you’re asking for is to give other players a hard time for not being you.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Fafnir.5124:

Death should be advoided….question is why.

Because when you die, you die. In the open world, you get sent back to a waypoint somewhere away from your goal. In dungeons, wiping in a tough encounter means having to start over again.
The “punishment” for failure is the lack of success, and the time it takes to retry. Why does there need to be more than that? This is a game, and relatively speaking, a pretty casual-friendly one. I think this is a good thing.

Fafnir.5124:

anything you do or accomplish is technically easy because no one ever counts the amount of deaths required.

What a weird thing to say. If you’re dying all the time, you will notice. Why do you need to count the number of deaths?

Fafnir.5124:

Everyone is also equivalently skilled cause there is no skill required to stay alive.

Nonsense. Let me tell you something, me and some guildies went into Arah P4 the other night. We wiped on every boss, several times. The whole run took us a whopping FIVE AND A HALF HOURS. Most of us had never done that path before, we were figuring it out as we went along, and each attempt we got a little better. Are we terrible? Maybe. Or maybe we didn’t have the practice and skill required to clear the dungeon in an expedient manner.
Meanwhile, there are people uploading videos of their effortless SOLO fight with Lupicus. So, how do we account for this discrepancy, if staying alive doesn’t require any skill?

Just because you have played the game so much that you know all the fights and can succeed without any problem, that doesn’t make the game easy. It means you are an experienced player. Good for you. How much longer do you think our run of Arah should have taken? 6 hours? 7 hours? 8 hours? Maybe the game should have just kicked us out of the dungeon and locked us out of Arah for a week. Boy, that sure would be a good game, huh? Very “challenging!” Yeah, challenging to enjoy.

Fafnir.5124:

It is so easy to level in GW2 I honestly think you should be reset to level 1

First of all, if you think it should be difficult to level a character, you have some very strange ideas about what kind of game you are playing. Leveling is about learning your profession, seeing the world, experiencing the story, getting acclimated to the mechanics, etc. It is not gruelling, hardcore time.
Second, I have to assume you are being some shade of facetious by saying we should be reset to level 1 if we — I assume — die at some point. That is insane. Have you even thought this through? There is a reason there is no “Hardcore Mode” where your character permanently dies or is reset if you die. People would never take any risks. Nobody would enter PvP or WvW. All characters would be as over-geared and over-leveled for their zones as possible. No one would try anything interesting or challenging, for fear of losing hours and hours of progress. This would not be “exciting,” this would be frustrating. People would not play this game if you couldn’t die. If you’re really serious about this point, you do not understand the most fundamental aspects of game design.

Fafnir.5124:

End game wise it only takes you like 2 weeks to make an 80.

It does not take the average person 2 weeks to make a level 80 character. Maybe that is possible for someone who has already been playing this game since launch, and who has entirely too much time and gold on their hands to buy/grind their way to max level. Those people are a vocal minority, but not ArenaNet’s prime demographic. Most people take a while to get through all the content. Most people are not top-notch, hardcore players with hundreds of gold. Most people die on occasion.

Be glad for yourself that you are such a skill and experienced player, that you hardly ever die. Find a way to profit from the fact that you know the battles and the content so well that you can succeed without any problem. But let’s not kid ourselves — a more severe punishment for death wouldn’t affect you, it would only frustrate and waste the time of other players who aren’t as skilled as you. So, what you’re asking for is to give other players a hard time for not being you.

…Plus 1. I’d give plus 10, but no option for that.

As a long time vanquisher in GW1 with lots of experience failing against certain hard mode bosses , I can say that death penalty did nothing but frustrate me to no end. Nothing like the boss getting harder to beat each time you fail to make you bang your head against a wall.

Failure to succeed is penalty enough.

Azhure.1857:

The -15% penalty, per death, isn’t “harsh” or “severe” in my book. Its not taking anything from your inventory, its not resetting you in experience gained, and its not game breaking. It also can be countered afterwards by gaining more experience.

It is taking one of the most valuable things I have: My time.

If I am working on content I have not mastered yet, whether it is a dungeon path my group hasn’t fully figured out, a solo-challenge like Liadri, or an Orr temple event where a sizable part of the participants doesn’t fully understand the event mechanics, if I fail (and die/wipe), I want to use what little time I have for playing to try again with an adjusted strategy.

Stat-penalties that I either have to wait or do other content (gain experience) to remove only serve to keep me from trying again with the best I can bring, and force me to spend my precious playtime on other things than the boss/event/whatever I had wanted to work on.

If the game penalizes me for trying challenging content in a way that seriously hinders my ability to keep trying, that content (and most likely that game) isn’t something I want to play. I love this game because it allows me to choose what part of it I want to play, instead of randomly restricting me from content just because I was unlucky, didn’t know the boss/event inside-out yet, or worst of all had an unlucky disconnect or family aggro at the wrong moment.

well the inverse method, is to reward living. Lets say, you get better, or unique rewards for doing things well.
lets say each dungeon tracks deaths, time, and non respawning enemy kills. The better you do, the better your chance at unique rewards, or perhaps more rewards.

I still think a failure condition like if everyone wipes you start again, or something of the sort wouldnt be bad though.

If you really want a penalty then do it yourself. Reroll on death, buy an Orichalcum Mining Pick and destroy it, salvage your armor when it breaks, nothing is stopping you.

Why people want to do the game more frustrating?

I’m already on the edge. This past few days I’m triying to beat the cursed Liadri. Oh, boy, I ragequited so many times.
And you want to do it MORE frustrating?

Why!?

Why can’t we have a relaxed and fun game? Why everything must be hard and mean?

Fafnir.5124:

Where is the value and accomplishment in a try until you win game? One of the reasons no content is truly hard and rewards will never be good. I argue GW2 has no system and the argument here is that there should be something.

The value of trying until you complete the content is the learning along the way. Completing a challenging piece of content gives you the sense of accomplishment. Can you honestly say there is value and accomplishment in being punished for dying?

The threat of punishment in the form of taking away progress doesn’t make something hard; the two aren’t mutually exclusive. In fact, if you want truly challenging content, you don’t want a harsh death penalty. The content itself is the thing that acts like a roadblock to the players progression, not the death penalty itself.

A harsh death penalty will more than likely cause players read up on the content before attempting it, rather than giving the player a chance to work it out for themselves. Yes, I am aware that players will do this anyway, but for those who do like to work things out for themselves, it’s more of a deterrent than anything.

A great idea for punishment upon death would be to drop the items you are carrying, even wearing, while having the choice to select ‘x’ amount of items to save upon death, for example the player could save 4 items, which could mean he saved his/her legendary and 3 pieces of armour.

Furthermore from this, it also introduces the possibility of adding a new skill/trait which allows you to save additional 1 or 2 items. This then means that players can go out and kill but if they get killed, they don’t lose armour but other stuff.

Now the question is what happens to the dropped loot. Well one suggestion is that it goes on the TP which in return would reduce the cost of some materials.

Another option is to add grave stones, which last ‘x’ amount of time and the grave stones can be upgraded by a specific crafting profession which increases the amount of time the grave survives. If the player returns to the grave before it expires, they have the opportunity to return some items they lost, but not all due to simply being easy to get back to due to waypoints being generally close to each event.

If the player does not get back in time, the grave is destroyed and the loot is dropped to the ground, or alternatively just disappears for good.

This way it will make people more wary rather than just running in to a champion battle and zerking, and would in return promote more tactical approach.

Thanks for reading.

It seems like there is a good solution to me and can be combined with the kitten rewards too to kill 2 birds with one stone…

Just make it so if you die you are no longer eligible for the next boss chest that spawns, in that map or any map regardless of logging on or off and is an account wide condition that can only be removed by attempting to loot a different bosses chest. Also doing this will not kill off people from attempting events as they will push themselves to be less terrible in order to seek the increased rewards.

then while doing that boost the amount of exotic drops from those chests which since there is a possibility of something decent finally coming from these but the decreased amount of people able to loot then it won’t wreck the market for exotics further than it already has been.

Some bosses again will need to be revamped in order to prevent everyone from being able to loot the chest everytime but these can be applied as necessary.

Also death should effect the quality of loot you get by cutting your mf down by 25% each death(this being reset to normal upon successful completion of an event without death). All the while completing unique events (events only count one time to your stack until you die and it resets) adds to a stack boosting your mf by let’s say 5% per successful event up to 300% to mimic the wonderful southsun buff we once enjoyed.

GameVeight.2745:

If you really want a penalty then do it yourself. Reroll on death, buy an Orichalcum Mining Pick and destroy it, salvage your armor when it breaks, nothing is stopping you.

rincewind.9528:

Why can’t we have a relaxed and fun game? Why everything must be hard and mean?

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the people promoting death penalties actually don’t want them for themselves but for the “less worthy” players around them. The mindset expressed in several of the posts in this thread talks about “forcing people to improve”, but I doubt the people actually consider themselves among those who have to seriously improve to not be hit hard by the penalties.

It may just be an unconcious reaction, but most (if not all) of the pro-death-penalty arguments I have seen in this post come down to “I want better rewards than the worthless casual over there who can’t even survive”.

I’m fine with the death penalty as it is.

My husband and I did part of my quest together, and we tried as best we could but literally got swarmed by mobs and could NOT avoid dying. If we’d been reset back to level 1 I promise we would have just quit. Why is it that people want things to be “harder”, so instead of making them harder for themselves, they want to impose on everyone else? If you want a harsher death penalty, give yourself one. Nobody is stopping you from paying 2g to a random stranger if you die. Nobody is stopping you from deleting your character and starting it again at level 1. But you won’t do that because “nobody else has to”, even though that’s what you’re asking for. You can make the game what you want it to be without anet implementing a death penalty change at all.

Rasimir.6239:

GameVeight.2745:

If you really want a penalty then do it yourself. Reroll on death, buy an Orichalcum Mining Pick and destroy it, salvage your armor when it breaks, nothing is stopping you.

rincewind.9528:

Why can’t we have a relaxed and fun game? Why everything must be hard and mean?

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the people promoting death penalties actually don’t want them for themselves but for the “less worthy” players around them. The mindset expressed in several of the posts in this thread talks about “forcing people to improve”, but I doubt the people actually consider themselves among those who have to seriously improve to not be hit hard by the penalties.

It may just be an unconcious reaction, but most (if not all) of the pro-death-penalty arguments I have seen in this post come down to “I want better rewards than the worthless casual over there who can’t even survive”.

Yeah, it’s what it sounds like to me.

Why don’t they go play the numerous challenging games out there, and leave this game alone.

Rasimir.6239:

GameVeight.2745:

If you really want a penalty then do it yourself. Reroll on death, buy an Orichalcum Mining Pick and destroy it, salvage your armor when it breaks, nothing is stopping you.

rincewind.9528:

Why can’t we have a relaxed and fun game? Why everything must be hard and mean?

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the people promoting death penalties actually don’t want them for themselves but for the “less worthy” players around them. The mindset expressed in several of the posts in this thread talks about “forcing people to improve”, but I doubt the people actually consider themselves among those who have to seriously improve to not be hit hard by the penalties.

It may just be an unconcious reaction, but most (if not all) of the pro-death-penalty arguments I have seen in this post come down to “I want better rewards than the worthless casual over there who can’t even survive”.

I did suggest something to the effect of that but it’s not to berate or punish casuals, I die quite often but I also feel there should be an increased reward for those who go on a long streak of sucking less is all. and while it would be nice just to have this, in order to keep a bit of balance in the increase of rewards there needs to be a decrease somewhere else.. And as people get better, which they naturally do the more they play a game, then they will feel the increased rewards as well which will be quite gratifying I’m sure. I also feel my suggestion satisfies giving a death penalty that can be hindering all the while rewarding you for when you’re playing well in addition to not punishing those who are newer or more casual with any physical restrictions such as a health, armor, or level reduction.

TL;DR: I want everyone run tanky gear and stay at max range.

But sure, if I get double/triple loot for doing twice/thrice as much damage as someone else.

Uuuh yes, an HC box to tick and then tell softcore guys they don’t know “the real game”, there should be games like that!

Wethospu.6437:

TL;DR: I want everyone run tanky gear and stay at max range.

But sure, if I get double/triple loot for doing twice/thrice as much damage as someone else.

That is something I could get on board with as well. People who run all zerk and don’t die at all during events SHOULD be rewarded with increased loot as they are pushing the event along quicker (unless it’s a world boss since they can’t be crit’d of course). But those who insist on running zerker gear and can’t avoid dying are like that really drunk friend who can’t hold their liquor, they’re fun at the beginning but after throwing up on your shoes and in the backseat of your car while making you carry them up to their 3rd floor apartment, they’re much less fun and just kinda kill the good time.

Wethospu.6437:

Every pug secretly stacking passive defense and running away at first sign of wipe doesn’t sound very enjoyable to me.

I don’t think the content would have to be left alone for a fundamental change like this to be implemented. It would most likely be a monumental change. We would likely see mobs and bosses alike becoming significantly easier and people sparingly using their best equipment in dangerous situations if there was a chance of losing it.

Then again since I didn’t specify what I had in mind for loss on death, it’s tough to say. I think a game that I was in had it right— there was a certain attribute that everyone had called “necrostacy” which you always wanted to be 0%. After each death, depending on how the death happened, you’d get a certain amount of necrostacy (falling deaths were 5% added, death from mobs was 1-2% or something like that) and each percentage added reduced your attributes. You’d lose necrostacy after killing some mobs. Something like this wouldn’t be too terrible but I think it would be a decent incentive for better gameplay on GW2.

People naturally want to avoid dying in games anyway just on principle. There doesn’t need to be any more punishment than there already is. As several people (including me) have said, if you want MORE death penalties, do them to yourself.

Azhure.1857:

Drakent.9605:

putting death penalty on this game will give ppl more reason to run zerker build over anything else so is a bad idea

I don’t understand how you came to this conclusion. It would weed out those that aren’t good with their combat/profession mechanics from those that are. Most people that wear zerker are not skilled in GW2 combat. This would make it so, for the sake of surviving, more people would turn to other armor stats. Or so I believe.

.

That is the reason why Zerker is such a popular build, requires 0 skills to play , the stats are so OP that it aloud 5 zerker stack together and cleave the hell out of everything in seconds. As I say zerker build don’t spend time reviving there friend but only dpsing

You try the same game play with none zerker build they drop like fly’s, this is why I laugh so hard in the inside when I pug with ppl and they say STACK and is b/c they have no clue what they are doing.

If you guys want this to be more of a challenge you need to change everything but the way how death works b/c is not the problem

1) have bosses move around instead of just standing in spot like giants dummies. make the person work for his damage

2) increase bosses HP, fight are to shorts , a boss with a elite group of players should take 2-3 min to kill not 30 seconds normal group should take 4-6min

3) Nerf zerker build some more

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

I also feel there should be an increased reward for those who go on a long streak of sucking less

But dying in this game is not closely related to your personal skill level. You easily die to an unlucky pull out of your control (e.g. respawn in the open world when you had no way of knowing that somebody else had just cleared out the spawns before you came along), other people pulling mobs onto you (if that thief next to you aggroes the mob you you kept away from to recover from the last fight, then stealths to drop aggro on you, you may never get a chance to recover sufficiently), simple network problems/lag, real life (e.g. kids) calling for your attention, lousy random rolls and so on.

The more harsh a death penalty is, the less fun it is to try things with uncertain outcome. I’ve gone from pvt geared characters (training wheels ) to full offensive gear, learning to survive without passive defenses along the way. It was fun and rewarding to see myself getting better and deaths get fewer, but it wouldn’t have been fun if dying to mistakes would’ve actually hindered me in improving by putting additional challenges in my path each time I don’t succeed.

If I knew the game was punishing me each time I missed a jump, misjudged a mob or just were unlucky enough to be in the wrong place (or near the wrong people) at the wrong time, and/or judge myself as just not good enough to reach the skill ceiling where the rewards were worthwhile again (due to time constraints, lousy reflexes, whatever), then the game wouldn’t challenge me to improve at all, but rather just take away challenge and reward, and make me slog around, playing things safe and feeling lousy if I still die due to reasons outside of my own influence.

Not dying is as much due to selfish gameplay and pure luck as it is to personal skill. You may say that selfish gameplay is in fact a personal skill, but it’s not the one I’d like to see superior in a multiplayer game. To me it’s all about cooperative play, but cooperative play will get you killed due to other player’s failures no matter how skilled you are yourself.

First death = Account permanently deleted.

Also, the character creation screen is a free-for-all PvP zone, meaning you could be ganked even before you choose your race or gender.

Anything less is for “noobs”.

Rasimir.6239:

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

I also feel there should be an increased reward for those who go on a long streak of sucking less

But dying in this game is not closely related to your personal skill level. You easily die to an unlucky pull out of your control (e.g. respawn in the open world when you had no way of knowing that somebody else had just cleared out the spawns before you came along), other people pulling mobs onto you (if that thief next to you aggroes the mob you you kept away from to recover from the last fight, then stealths to drop aggro on you, you may never get a chance to recover sufficiently), simple network problems/lag, real life (e.g. kids) calling for your attention, lousy random rolls and so on.

The more harsh a death penalty is, the less fun it is to try things with uncertain outcome. I’ve gone from pvt geared characters (training wheels ) to full offensive gear, learning to survive without passive defenses along the way. It was fun and rewarding to see myself getting better and deaths get fewer, but it wouldn’t have been fun if dying to mistakes would’ve actually hindered me in improving by putting additional challenges in my path each time I don’t succeed.

If I knew the game was punishing me each time I missed a jump, misjudged a mob or just were unlucky enough to be in the wrong place (or near the wrong people) at the wrong time, and/or judge myself as just not good enough to reach the skill ceiling where the rewards were worthwhile again (due to time constraints, lousy reflexes, whatever), then the game wouldn’t challenge me to improve at all, but rather just take away challenge and reward, and make me slog around, playing things safe and feeling lousy if I still die due to reasons outside of my own influence.

Not dying is as much due to selfish gameplay and pure luck as it is to personal skill. You may say that selfish gameplay is in fact a personal skill, but it’s not the one I’d like to see superior in a multiplayer game. To me it’s all about cooperative play, but cooperative play will get you killed due to other player’s failures no matter how skilled you are yourself.

I understand what you are getting at, but it’s not really THAT big of a punishment, I’m not calling for 25% of your health, it’s your mf, which doesn’t amount to much in any case, while being successful will give a significant boost IF you’re able to stay consistent. It’s not so much about punishing anyone more than it is about boosting rewards to a more acceptable level while applying a small balance in the process.

Though I also should add I wasn’t taking falling deaths into consideration as they never applied to breaking armor or whatever, I feel something like that should be not included in the penalty, just in combat death. And if someone drags a bunch of stuff on you, I don’t want to sound rude and apologize if I do, but you should be more aware of what’s going on around you, if you’re in a dangerous place you should already be looking for stray mobs to wander into you, it’s just as easy to keep an eye out for a stray player making a b-line to you followed by 20 risen haha.

RealBGB.9132:

Making wp cost relate to your lvl?

It does that, though…

rincewind.9528:

Why people want to do the game more frustrating?

I’m already on the edge. This past few days I’m triying to beat the cursed Liadri. Oh, boy, I ragequited so many times.
And you want to do it MORE frustrating?

Why!?

Why can’t we have a relaxed and fun game? Why everything must be hard and mean?

Not sure why myself. Let’s see. They already destroyed two of the bosses Teq and Wurm for casuals because someone wanted “raids”, they were advocates for keeping DR even tho it hasn’t gotten rid of a single bot, and they enjoyed having a eastern style grind for a gear treadmill they complained about not having enough gear in the game early on or enough dungeons (so fractals were made). I think they need to be satisfied with how they distorted this title. And to think they say that casuals are the problem when really we just want the game we paid for.

To me the punishment for dying is running back from a waypoint, often contested, and often not close by. I hate running back. I didn’t like running back to my body in WoW either. I thought it was a stupid waste of time.

So you’re in an event in say Orr. You die. You run back. By the time you get back, you’ve missed how much loot? How many moldy bags? Do you even get the same credit for the event? Did you miss a champion bag?

I don’t need to pay 1.3 silver or whatever it was, because I’m already missing out.

Hell if you die too fast in the fire ele, which can happen just do to stupid stuff like lag, you could end up missing it by the time you get back.

Here is my suggestion for a death penalty:

On WP resurrection (not player revives), get 10 stacks of “unlucky”. Each stack reduces your Magic Find by 10% (of the total Magic Find, meaning you will have 0% right after death). A stack is removed every time you kill a foe.

This would let death have a negative consequence in that your loot is suppressed until you work off the rigor mortis while not affecting your combat effectiveness.

Vayne.8563:

To me the punishment for dying is running back from a waypoint, often contested, and often not close by. I hate running back. I didn’t like running back to my body in WoW either. I thought it was a stupid waste of time.

So you’re in an event in say Orr. You die. You run back. By the time you get back, you’ve missed how much loot? How many moldy bags? Do you even get the same credit for the event? Did you miss a champion bag?

I don’t need to pay 1.3 silver or whatever it was, because I’m already missing out.

Hell if you die too fast in the fire ele, which can happen just do to stupid stuff like lag, you could end up missing it by the time you get back.

Exactly. Running back is enough of a punishment.

Katai.6240:

Death penalties tend to impact games like this rather negatively. It creates an environment where people are much more careful, as well as make people much more hostile towards one another.

Yeah .. but no death penality creates players that always scream for harder content and that all is too easy when there is content where you are NOT dying at least 50 times a day or whatever.

Personally i’m also normally against death penalities, but i still hate dying and try to avoid it, and i wished there would be a way to hold those people that cry for 1000 deaths a day a little under control.

just give people a hardcore switch.

This drops your armour by half but gives you 10% extra magic find. Cannot be activated in parties unless everyone uses the switch. So as not to hold back other players in dungeons etc.

There, now leave us who like to finally have an easy chill out mmo alone, instead pushing your wants, that negatively affect us.

No thanks. I think death penalty is now at the perfect spot. You don’t actively try to not die. You play first and foremost, and try to not die as a secondary thought.

You go into zerg fights even though outnumbered and have a good fight. You contest a tower to buy your team a couple of seconds. You rez the Lord blowing all your invuls and stabs. You charge into the enemy siege trebbing your keep.

Don’t take this away from us.