Guild Wars 2

Subdue.5479:

The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.

100% this. It’s like you took the words out of my brain.

Subdue.5479:

The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.

This right here is beautiful.

Subdue.5479:

The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.

the problem is that there exist some people that forget that if they want to feel hardcore, there is WoW.
and there yeah, that’s kitten. grind your soul out and get that BiS gear to feel your glory….for a pair of weeks before the next tier is rolled out.
it’s you that want to have an easy BiS…if compared to other games…but slighty too difficult/time wasting for the other standard players, to show your possible kittenitude….in a battle of the have-nots.

and there exist(ed) also a gw2 game that forgot who bought it and why.
why sold out so many copies.
the only things that divide it from a big fat fail. the casuals who want to have that best equip.
let it continue down the road of new tiers.
there we’ll never be a real competition with really hardcore-grindy games.
a foot in both camps…won’t last long.

have fun…until there is fun.

Kevan.8912:

Subdue.5479:

The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.

the problem is that there exist some people that forget that if they want to feel hardcore, there is WoW.
and there yeah, that’s kitten. grind your soul out and get that BiS gear to feel your glory….for a pair of weeks before the next tier is rolled out.
it’s you that want to have an easy BiS…if compared to other games…but slighty too difficult/time wasting for the other standard players, to show your possible kittenitude….in a battle of the have-nots.

and there exist(ed) also a gw2 game that forgot who bought it and why.
why sold out so many copies.
the only things that divide it from a big fat fail. the casuals who want to have that best equip.
let it continue down the road of new tiers.
there we’ll never be a real competition with really hardcore-grindy games.
a foot in both camps…won’t last long.

have fun…until there is fun.

It’s pretty clear that you did not even understand the post that you quoted, and your comments are entirely based on assumptions, many of which are contradicted by simple observation.

Subdue.5479:

Kevan.8912:

Subdue.5479:

The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.

the problem is that there exist some people that forget that if they want to feel hardcore, there is WoW.
and there yeah, that’s kitten. grind your soul out and get that BiS gear to feel your glory….for a pair of weeks before the next tier is rolled out.
it’s you that want to have an easy BiS…if compared to other games…but slighty too difficult/time wasting for the other standard players, to show your possible kittenitude….in a battle of the have-nots.

and there exist(ed) also a gw2 game that forgot who bought it and why.
why sold out so many copies.
the only things that divide it from a big fat fail. the casuals who want to have that best equip.
let it continue down the road of new tiers.
there we’ll never be a real competition with really hardcore-grindy games.
a foot in both camps…won’t last long.

have fun…until there is fun.

It’s pretty clear that you did not even understand the post that you quoted, and your comments are entirely based on assumptions, many of which are contradicted by simple observation.

I think it’s you who don’t understand how GW2 was sold.
If you want to consider yourself hardcore and show off then there is a tons of skins/legendaries for it. Want hardcore grind – go for it. It’s called horizontal progression.

If you want to have stat advantage because you grinded more than WoW is for you. GW2 was not created for this but now ANET is trying to play for both teams. Results are bad IMO.

And please, tell me what is this magical “hardcore”. Are you hardcore enough ? Maybe you also a middle class player that pretends to be hardcore ? Who knows, everything needs comparison.

WRay.2391:

Subdue.5479:

Kevan.8912:

Subdue.5479:

The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.

the problem is that there exist some people that forget that if they want to feel hardcore, there is WoW.
and there yeah, that’s kitten. grind your soul out and get that BiS gear to feel your glory….for a pair of weeks before the next tier is rolled out.
it’s you that want to have an easy BiS…if compared to other games…but slighty too difficult/time wasting for the other standard players, to show your possible kittenitude….in a battle of the have-nots.

and there exist(ed) also a gw2 game that forgot who bought it and why.
why sold out so many copies.
the only things that divide it from a big fat fail. the casuals who want to have that best equip.
let it continue down the road of new tiers.
there we’ll never be a real competition with really hardcore-grindy games.
a foot in both camps…won’t last long.

have fun…until there is fun.

It’s pretty clear that you did not even understand the post that you quoted, and your comments are entirely based on assumptions, many of which are contradicted by simple observation.

I think it’s you who don’t understand how GW2 was sold.
If you want to consider yourself hardcore and show off then there is a tons of skins/legendaries for it. Want hardcore grind – go for it. It’s called horizontal progression.

If you want to have stat advantage because you grinded more than WoW is for you. GW2 was not created for this but now ANET is trying to play for both teams. Results are bad IMO.

And please, tell me what is this magical “hardcore”. Are you hardcore enough ? Maybe you also a middle class player that pretends to be hardcore ? Who knows, everything needs comparison.

Actually, it’s likely you that doesn’t understand how GW2 was sold. It was marketed with a focus on quick, smooth combat and dynamic events. The concept of horizontal progression, was rarely even in the picture unless someone else brought it up. It was rarely if ever the focus of any marketing.

That said, GW2 drew from GW1 playerbase, sure, but it also drew from the overall MMO playerbase as well, many of whom came with certain expectations, that differed from the expectations of the GW1 players. Please note, I use the term GW1 players loosely, as I’m sure there are some GW1 players that are happy to have some higher tier gear to work towards, and I’m sure there are some non-GW1 players that would prefer a purely horizontal progression.

However, while A.Net may have wanted to develop a purely horizontal game, the fact of the matter is that the majority of the player base, and most likely those player that were more prone to spending on gems, wanted something to work towards.

A.Net’s compromise was… well I explained that part already.

Oh, I almost forgot to address your question. What is hardcore? Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

Subdue.5479:

However, while A.Net may have wanted to develop a purely horizontal game, the fact of the matter is that the majority of the player base, and most likely those player that were more prone to spending on gems, wanted something to work towards.

yeah. you are right.
it’s what they did. they changed everything they talked about at launch to appeal a new population which appeared a better investment.
greed and economy. i’m sure they’re right. gw2 is money not philosophy and coherence.

still, i have my own interests and will never login again.
and i really do hope i wont be the only.

Subdue.5479:

Oh, I almost forgot to address your question. What is hardcore? Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

i think you’re looking in the wrong place for “hardcore”, as i don’t see any here.
if it’s no more THE casual game, it will never be THE hardcore game.
as they try to make happy so different kinds of players, no chance they could satisfy everybody in the same time.
but, you know. money is good, no matter whence it comes.
good luck

Playing the TP: ultra hardcore gameplay. Because doing dungeons, events, sPvP, WvW is for casuals. The irony of this is that the same people who come here bragging about how they are hardcore are usually the ones who feel less inclined to enjoy the diversity of content available in the game and stick to only the most profitable one, which in this game would be starring at the BL screen for hours or skill 1-spamming at a champ train. Oh, so hardcore!

Kevan.8912:

Subdue.5479:

However, while A.Net may have wanted to develop a purely horizontal game, the fact of the matter is that the majority of the player base, and most likely those player that were more prone to spending on gems, wanted something to work towards.

yeah. you are right.
it’s what they did. they changed everything they talked about at launch to appeal a new population which appeared a better investment.
greed and economy. i’m sure they’re right. gw2 is money not philosophy and coherence.

still, i have my own interests and will never login again.
and i really do hope i wont be the only.

Subdue.5479:

Oh, I almost forgot to address your question. What is hardcore? Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

i think you’re looking in the wrong place for “hardcore”, as i don’t see any here.
if it’s no more tha casual game, it will never be the hardcore game.
as they try to make happy so different kinds of players, no chance they could satisfy everybody in the same time.
but, you know. money is good, no matter whence it comes.
good luck

No, they didn’t change everything talked about at launch. That’s not true. They made a compromise, which didn’t change it completely.

They created a single new tier of gear, and that’s it. That’s not changing everything completely. They didn’t make it so anyone actually needs that tier of gear, like other games do.

And the game was advertised on many things, not just this one issue. Maybe they’ve changed a tiny percent of what they said before launch, but there are people who refuse to recognize this.

Vayne.8563:

Kevan.8912:

Subdue.5479:

However, while A.Net may have wanted to develop a purely horizontal game, the fact of the matter is that the majority of the player base, and most likely those player that were more prone to spending on gems, wanted something to work towards.

yeah. you are right.
it’s what they did. they changed everything they talked about at launch to appeal a new population which appeared a better investment.
greed and economy. i’m sure they’re right. gw2 is money not philosophy and coherence.

still, i have my own interests and will never login again.
and i really do hope i wont be the only.

Subdue.5479:

Oh, I almost forgot to address your question. What is hardcore? Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

i think you’re looking in the wrong place for “hardcore”, as i don’t see any here.
if it’s no more tha casual game, it will never be the hardcore game.
as they try to make happy so different kinds of players, no chance they could satisfy everybody in the same time.
but, you know. money is good, no matter whence it comes.
good luck

No, they didn’t change everything talked about at launch. That’s not true. They made a compromise, which didn’t change it completely.

They created a single new tier of gear, and that’s it. That’s not changing everything completely. They didn’t make it so anyone actually needs that tier of gear, like other games do.

And the game was advertised on many things, not just this one issue. Maybe they’ve changed a tiny percent of what they said before launch, but there are people who refuse to recognize this.

I’d reply, but this pretty much sums it up.

Vayne.8563:

They created a single new tier of gear, and that’s it. That’s not changing everything completely. They didn’t make it so anyone actually needs that tier of gear, like other games do.

And so if in the upcoming weeks Berserker is no longer BiS no one will have any complaints because no one actually needs BiS.

Henri Blanche.8276:

Vayne.8563:

They created a single new tier of gear, and that’s it. That’s not changing everything completely. They didn’t make it so anyone actually needs that tier of gear, like other games do.

And so if in the upcoming weeks Berserker is no longer BiS no one will have any complaints because no one actually needs BiS.

People will always have complaints. Those who have no reason to complain will complain about the complainers. This is what it is to be human.

Subdue.5479:

Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

You consider crafting hardcore ?

Hmm, some pretty hardcore grandmothers out there with all that knitting.

Ashen.2907:

Subdue.5479:

Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

You consider crafting hardcore ?

Hmm, some pretty hardcore grandmothers out there with all that knitting.

If your grandmother can do this, yes I’d agree she’s hardcore.

Subdue.5479:

Ashen.2907:

Subdue.5479:

Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

You consider crafting hardcore ?

Hmm, some pretty hardcore grandmothers out there with all that knitting.

If your grandmother can do this, yes I’d agree she’s hardcore.

Touche’

Subdue.5479:

WRay.2391:

Subdue.5479:

Kevan.8912:

Subdue.5479:

The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.

the problem is that there exist some people that forget that if they want to feel hardcore, there is WoW.
and there yeah, that’s kitten. grind your soul out and get that BiS gear to feel your glory….for a pair of weeks before the next tier is rolled out.
it’s you that want to have an easy BiS…if compared to other games…but slighty too difficult/time wasting for the other standard players, to show your possible kittenitude….in a battle of the have-nots.

and there exist(ed) also a gw2 game that forgot who bought it and why.
why sold out so many copies.
the only things that divide it from a big fat fail. the casuals who want to have that best equip.
let it continue down the road of new tiers.
there we’ll never be a real competition with really hardcore-grindy games.
a foot in both camps…won’t last long.

have fun…until there is fun.

It’s pretty clear that you did not even understand the post that you quoted, and your comments are entirely based on assumptions, many of which are contradicted by simple observation.

I think it’s you who don’t understand how GW2 was sold.
If you want to consider yourself hardcore and show off then there is a tons of skins/legendaries for it. Want hardcore grind – go for it. It’s called horizontal progression.

If you want to have stat advantage because you grinded more than WoW is for you. GW2 was not created for this but now ANET is trying to play for both teams. Results are bad IMO.

And please, tell me what is this magical “hardcore”. Are you hardcore enough ? Maybe you also a middle class player that pretends to be hardcore ? Who knows, everything needs comparison.

Actually, it’s likely you that doesn’t understand how GW2 was sold. It was marketed with a focus on quick, smooth combat and dynamic events. The concept of horizontal progression, was rarely even in the picture unless someone else brought it up. It was rarely if ever the focus of any marketing.

That said, GW2 drew from GW1 playerbase, sure, but it also drew from the overall MMO playerbase as well, many of whom came with certain expectations, that differed from the expectations of the GW1 players. Please note, I use the term GW1 players loosely, as I’m sure there are some GW1 players that are happy to have some higher tier gear to work towards, and I’m sure there are some non-GW1 players that would prefer a purely horizontal progression.

However, while A.Net may have wanted to develop a purely horizontal game, the fact of the matter is that the majority of the player base, and most likely those player that were more prone to spending on gems, wanted something to work towards.

A.Net’s compromise was… well I explained that part already.

Oh, I almost forgot to address your question. What is hardcore? Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

Oh, thank you for your explanation.

What you described as hardcore is a simple grinding. You don’t even need to have mind to do this. Bots are the most hardcore players by your definition.

As per my understanding hardcore is building your skill in certain activity. Solo Arah p4 in white armor and I will call you hardcore. Reach fractals 80+ before nerf and I will call you hardcore. Grind for mats/gold and I will call you bot or casual.

Subdue.5479:

Ashen.2907:

Subdue.5479:

Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

You consider crafting hardcore ?

Hmm, some pretty hardcore grandmothers out there with all that knitting.

If your grandmother can do this, yes I’d agree she’s hardcore.

If you grandmother have skill to do this – yes. If she just collected money whole life and bought it – no.

WRay.2391:

Subdue.5479:

WRay.2391:

Subdue.5479:

Kevan.8912:

Subdue.5479:

The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.

the problem is that there exist some people that forget that if they want to feel hardcore, there is WoW.
and there yeah, that’s kitten. grind your soul out and get that BiS gear to feel your glory….for a pair of weeks before the next tier is rolled out.
it’s you that want to have an easy BiS…if compared to other games…but slighty too difficult/time wasting for the other standard players, to show your possible kittenitude….in a battle of the have-nots.

and there exist(ed) also a gw2 game that forgot who bought it and why.
why sold out so many copies.
the only things that divide it from a big fat fail. the casuals who want to have that best equip.
let it continue down the road of new tiers.
there we’ll never be a real competition with really hardcore-grindy games.
a foot in both camps…won’t last long.

have fun…until there is fun.

It’s pretty clear that you did not even understand the post that you quoted, and your comments are entirely based on assumptions, many of which are contradicted by simple observation.

I think it’s you who don’t understand how GW2 was sold.
If you want to consider yourself hardcore and show off then there is a tons of skins/legendaries for it. Want hardcore grind – go for it. It’s called horizontal progression.

If you want to have stat advantage because you grinded more than WoW is for you. GW2 was not created for this but now ANET is trying to play for both teams. Results are bad IMO.

And please, tell me what is this magical “hardcore”. Are you hardcore enough ? Maybe you also a middle class player that pretends to be hardcore ? Who knows, everything needs comparison.

Actually, it’s likely you that doesn’t understand how GW2 was sold. It was marketed with a focus on quick, smooth combat and dynamic events. The concept of horizontal progression, was rarely even in the picture unless someone else brought it up. It was rarely if ever the focus of any marketing.

That said, GW2 drew from GW1 playerbase, sure, but it also drew from the overall MMO playerbase as well, many of whom came with certain expectations, that differed from the expectations of the GW1 players. Please note, I use the term GW1 players loosely, as I’m sure there are some GW1 players that are happy to have some higher tier gear to work towards, and I’m sure there are some non-GW1 players that would prefer a purely horizontal progression.

However, while A.Net may have wanted to develop a purely horizontal game, the fact of the matter is that the majority of the player base, and most likely those player that were more prone to spending on gems, wanted something to work towards.

A.Net’s compromise was… well I explained that part already.

Oh, I almost forgot to address your question. What is hardcore? Hardcore is spending 2-3 doing the various activities associated with achieving long term in game goals – high level fractals, ascended gear, legendaries, etc.

Oh, thank you for your explanation.

What you described as hardcore is a simple grinding. You don’t even need to have mind to do this. Bots are the most hardcore players by your definition.

As per my understanding hardcore is building your skill in certain activity. Solo Arah p4 in white armor and I will call you hardcore. Reach fractals 80+ before nerf and I will call you hardcore. Grind for mats/gold and I will call you bot or casual.

You can call it casual, you can call it being a bot, I really don’t care what you call it. Fact of the matter is, there are players, and deductive reasoning would suggest a majority of players, who like playing that way. The compromise A.Net made was to give that to them without taking away whatever you’d like to name the group of players you belong to wanted: to be able to play the game without a grind. And quite frankly, if you don’t want to grind in this game, you don’t have to. You can do pretty much anything in the game in super easy to acquire exotic gear, or even rare and masterwork gear really.

Subdue.5479:

without taking away whatever you’d like to name the group of players you belong to wanted

To have BiS gear be easily attainable without grinding for it.

Except that such was taken away. Not much of a compromise when one side had what they wanted taken away without gaining anything. Pretty much the antithesis of what the word means actually.

Ashen.2907:

Subdue.5479:

without taking away whatever you’d like to name the group of players you belong to wanted

To have BiS gear be easily attainable without grinding for it.

Except that such was taken away. Not much of a compromise when one side had what they wanted taken away without gaining anything. Pretty much the antithesis of what the word means actually.

The compromise was to make it so BIS gear wasn’t necessary. That WAS the compromise. It give those who wanted something to work for something to work for. You guys are so fixed on the actual letters BIS, so trained by games where that was an absolutely necessity that you still feel you must have it.

That fixation isn’t written in stone. I used to like BIS gear too…I adapted, since I saw it wasn’t necessary for anything I needed to do.

Aeonblade.8709:

Well said. There isn’t enough difference between gear tiers to justify the mind numbing months long grind for it.

That is the point of it but also the problem. Arenanet wanted a grind to give a particular player segment something to do but they also wanted to make sure that any stat increase was quite low to not annoy the horizontal progression segment. In reality what has happened is that both segments have become annoyed cause you can’t please both.

morrolan.9608:

Aeonblade.8709:

Well said. There isn’t enough difference between gear tiers to justify the mind numbing months long grind for it.

That is the point of it but also the problem. Arenanet wanted a grind to give a particular player segment something to do but they also wanted to make sure that any stat increase was quite low to not annoy the horizontal progression segment. In reality what has happened is that both segments have become annoyed cause you can’t please both.

But what are the alternatives? No stat increase and an entire segment is disenfranchised. Big stat increase and another entire segment is disenfranchised.

That’s why they compromised and I don’t believe that the biggest percentage of people are disappointed with it. I’d have been far more disappointed if the stat difference was huge. As it is, I’m quite happy, because I know I don’t need that armor.

It’s all a question of percentages. There’s got to be some threshold. Anet certainly annoyed a percentage of each camp, but what size percent and how annoyed they are will tell the real story. If they chose right, most people will stay and play. If they chose wrong…well that would be unfortunate.

Vayne.8563:

The compromise was to make it so BIS gear wasn’t necessary. That WAS the compromise.

No it was not. That was the state of the game before the claimed compromise was made.

Vayne.8563:

You guys are so fixed on the actual letters BIS, so trained by games where that was an absolutely necessity that you still feel you must have it.

You are mistaken. I have not once pursued BiS in any game where it was, “absolutely necessary.” You have spoken of hyperbole as weakening one’s argument. Might I suggest that either lying or fabricating your supposed facts does the same ?

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The compromise was to make it so BIS gear wasn’t necessary. That WAS the compromise.

No it was not. That was the state of the game before the claimed compromise was made.

Vayne.8563:

You guys are so fixed on the actual letters BIS, so trained by games where that was an absolutely necessity that you still feel you must have it.

You are mistaken. I have not once pursued BiS in any game where it was, “absolutely necessary.” You have spoken of hyperbole as weakening one’s argument. Might I suggest that either lying or fabricating your supposed facts does the same ?

I believe you’ll find that in 90% plus of MMOs that exist today, you need BIS gear to do some end game content. Not like the fractals either, where you can do “all the fractals” without that gear, just not on the top level.

If you don’t think games have trained people what to expect from new games, I’m pretty sure you’re wrong.

Vayne.8563:

I believe you’ll find that in 90% plus of MMOs that exist today, you need BIS gear to do some end game content.

I don’t recall this being mentioned in my post. In fact it has nothing to do with anything I said as I made no comments about 90% plus of MMOs.

Vayne.8563:

If you don’t think games have trained people what to expect from new games, I’m pretty sure you’re wrong.

Also not a part of my post. You quoted me and then said, “you people.” That is not a generic reference to MMO players in general. I have never, not even once, sought or attained BiS gear in a game where it is required…as you claimed I had. Fabricating falsehoods does not support your position.

Bagel.4598:

Umut.5471:

If you are that hardcore player which enters to l49-50 fotm, it wouldn’t be hard for you to craft all those ascendeds. Btw there’s no reason or a real reward to play fractals after having all ascendeds (boring to do the same thing over and over), this is just a paradox.

Weapon skins

It’s kinda personal taste, i find fractal skins ugly. They released a lot better skins with bl chests plus there’s legendaries. But I respect your opinion, it’s just a personal taste.

vrannar.5618:

I didn’t come to play Guildwars 2 until last summer so I’m newer then many. The reason I came was because of the quality of the combat system and yet more casual play. One of the things touted by Anet was there was not going to be a gear grind.

I played the world’s biggest MMO and as we all know its a gear grind every major patch and each expansion. I didn’t mind the gear grind, in fact I enjoyed seeing how far I could go with my gear.

There is a major gear grind here in that yes there is less levels of gear, BUT it takes longer to acquire each piece. Between all the methods of gear acquisition I sometimes averaged a new piece of gear a day in the other MMO, in fact I reached top 5 gear score several times during my stint in that game. Not because I’m an ultra skilled raider, but I was skilled in finding out what gear I needed and how to get it.

Here in Guildwars 2, all but a few of my items were from crafting and to a lesser extent laurels. Like that other MMO I’m one of the better equipped, but really its a matter of grinding out the materials.

I dislike the RNG setup, because so many of the nice rewards are useless to me as a player. I go months between any loot that is useful as far as gear goes. I wish I could give all the ascended gear that isn’t useful away to friends or something. Or just don’t give it to me at all.

Oh wow an ascended chest! Oh crap its just locker bait AGAIN….

Thanks for the status update

I’m kidding, you have a positively interesting perspective on this. If you don’t mind my asking, what is it, however, that you are trying to raise awareness about with this thread?

Vayne.8563:

But what are the alternatives? No stat increase and an entire segment is disenfranchised. Big stat increase and another entire segment is disenfranchised.

That’s why they compromised and I don’t believe that the biggest percentage of people are disappointed with it. I’d have been far more disappointed if the stat difference was huge. As it is, I’m quite happy, because I know I don’t need that armor.

It’s all a question of percentages. There’s got to be some threshold. Anet certainly annoyed a percentage of each camp, but what size percent and how annoyed they are will tell the real story. If they chose right, most people will stay and play. If they chose wrong…well that would be unfortunate.

So for you, you don’t feel disenfranchised because the stat change was small. I and many other players, on the other hand, feel completely disenfranchised by the fact that they put ANY stat increase on it. So we’re going to keep complaining, to try and keep the game from making a further slide in that direction. You can feel free to keep popping up in our threads and chanting “you don’t need ascended gear”, okay?

imsoenthused.1634:

Vayne.8563:

But what are the alternatives? No stat increase and an entire segment is disenfranchised. Big stat increase and another entire segment is disenfranchised.

That’s why they compromised and I don’t believe that the biggest percentage of people are disappointed with it. I’d have been far more disappointed if the stat difference was huge. As it is, I’m quite happy, because I know I don’t need that armor.

It’s all a question of percentages. There’s got to be some threshold. Anet certainly annoyed a percentage of each camp, but what size percent and how annoyed they are will tell the real story. If they chose right, most people will stay and play. If they chose wrong…well that would be unfortunate.

So for you, you don’t feel disenfranchised because the stat change was small. I and many other players, on the other hand, feel completely disenfranchised by the fact that they put ANY stat increase on it. So we’re going to keep complaining, to try and keep the game from making a further slide in that direction. You can feel free to keep popping up in our threads and chanting “you don’t need ascended gear”, okay?

If they had just kept the stats the same as exotics and had the infusion slot for AR I feel like a lot less people would be kittened off about it, me included. Just ignore people who say ascended gear doesn’t matter, because if you are in any way serious about the game balance, it is currently something you need to work for.

Ascended Gear is catered to the % of players that want to grind. Sure, most people hate grind, but those who don’t… well they’re happy. I do find that they don’t belong in this game because Guild Wars 2, as a sequel to Guild Wars 1, was supposed to be no grind.

people that think that GW2 is a grind fest have NEVER played any other MMO , lol

you can get ALL NEEDED gear with in a few dayz of hitting lvl 80 by running dungeons!
witch ALL give you guaranty TOKENS to buy some of the best gear in game..

LEGENDARY WEAPON = 100% look and bragging rights
Ascended items = MINOR improvement to stats but not needed AT ALL!

I have 4 lvl 80 ALTS FULL geared with EXOS cost me about 20G a pop.. sure they look UGLY but took me 5-20hours each to get them fully geared? ( before gold was easy to get ) now it would probably take me WAY LESS time.. ( can make 10g/hour by farting )

if you think 5 to 20hours of game play = GRIND FEST then do your self a FAV and never play MMo’s again!!

HEll i think it takes more time to unlock all the weapons in Call Of Duty!!! lmao!!!

imsoenthused.1634:

Vayne.8563:

But what are the alternatives? No stat increase and an entire segment is disenfranchised. Big stat increase and another entire segment is disenfranchised.

That’s why they compromised and I don’t believe that the biggest percentage of people are disappointed with it. I’d have been far more disappointed if the stat difference was huge. As it is, I’m quite happy, because I know I don’t need that armor.

It’s all a question of percentages. There’s got to be some threshold. Anet certainly annoyed a percentage of each camp, but what size percent and how annoyed they are will tell the real story. If they chose right, most people will stay and play. If they chose wrong…well that would be unfortunate.

So for you, you don’t feel disenfranchised because the stat change was small. I and many other players, on the other hand, feel completely disenfranchised by the fact that they put ANY stat increase on it. So we’re going to keep complaining, to try and keep the game from making a further slide in that direction. You can feel free to keep popping up in our threads and chanting “you don’t need ascended gear”, okay?

The difference between the disenfranchisement that players who want some kind of vertical progression would have in comparison to the sort that you claim to experience is that there is no choice left for those who want the vertical progression. If there’s none in the game, all they can do is leave. And whether you like it or not, those people leaving hurts not only A.Net’s pockets, but your gaming experience as well. In contrast, those in your camp do have an option. You can simple not work towards the items. That’s right, don’t work towards them, don’t think about them, and continue playing the game exactly how you were playing it 6 months ago. If you don’t make it an issue, it won’t be one.

you dont even NEED ascended Armor/weapon now with the new AR infusion going +12 AR

get the FREE ascended trinkets by doing daily… and run Fractals ,

by the time your personal level hits the part where you need AR , you will have found enough AR infusions to keep going up!!!!

if you dont run FRACTALS … then ascended is usless to have unless your like me and some other simply looking for a REASON to keep playing this game!!

Ralron.8124:

people that think that GW2 is a grind fest have NEVER played any other MMO , lol

you can get ALL NEEDED gear with in a few dayz of hitting lvl 80 by running dungeons!
witch ALL give you guaranty TOKENS to buy some of the best gear in game..

LEGENDARY WEAPON = 100% look and bragging rights
Ascended items = MINOR improvement to stats but not needed AT ALL!

I have 4 lvl 80 ALTS FULL geared with EXOS cost me about 20G a pop.. sure they look UGLY but took me 5-20hours each to get them fully geared? ( before gold was easy to get ) now it would probably take me WAY LESS time.. ( can make 10g/hour by farting )

if you think 5 to 20hours of game play = GRIND FEST then do your self a FAV and never play MMo’s again!!

HEll i think it takes more time to unlock all the weapons in Call Of Duty!!! lmao!!!

This game has a steeper grind than nearly any other main stream MMO currently available. The only difference is it’s a mostly cosmetic grind, sans ascended. The only 2 I can think that are worse are L2 and TERA. And at least TERA got me excited about gear tier upgrades.

I guess I’m just complaining because I put a lot of effort into acquiring all of the ascended gear and a nerf to direct damage feels like a step backwards. I play mostly PVE and there is already a lot of elitism evidenced in the LFG. When I post an LFG party I just ask for the amount of AR and I don’t care what gear/spec/class you are. I was in a fractal once with all rangers. I don’t remember the level, but it was a blast! and we finished. I’m pretty sure ANY party makeup can finish the content.

I’m not going to be too happy when the LFG ads are condi only NO zerker! If they buff Condition I’ll probably build up a set of gear for that, I would have done that to begin with if it was designed better. Now because of the 25 stack limit there are situations and party make ups that just wont work very well.

If the upcoming changes are only regarding WvWvW or SPvP i’ll be quite happy and shut up. I have dabbled in WvWvW and while I enjoy it, the rewards to each server are crazy, its more about who has the biggest zerg then about skill. The maps are too big for the number of players inside the zone and there needs to be a real reason to defend and not just zerg.

Aeonblade.8709:

Ralron.8124:

people that think that GW2 is a grind fest have NEVER played any other MMO , lol

you can get ALL NEEDED gear with in a few dayz of hitting lvl 80 by running dungeons!
witch ALL give you guaranty TOKENS to buy some of the best gear in game..

LEGENDARY WEAPON = 100% look and bragging rights
Ascended items = MINOR improvement to stats but not needed AT ALL!

I have 4 lvl 80 ALTS FULL geared with EXOS cost me about 20G a pop.. sure they look UGLY but took me 5-20hours each to get them fully geared? ( before gold was easy to get ) now it would probably take me WAY LESS time.. ( can make 10g/hour by farting )

if you think 5 to 20hours of game play = GRIND FEST then do your self a FAV and never play MMo’s again!!

HEll i think it takes more time to unlock all the weapons in Call Of Duty!!! lmao!!!

This game has a steeper grind than nearly any other main stream MMO currently available. The only difference is it’s a mostly cosmetic grind, sans ascended. The only 2 I can think that are worse are L2 and TERA. And at least TERA got me excited about gear tier upgrades.

GW2 have a steeper grind? you kidding me!!?!?!?! have you not played WoW!!!

WoW = Farm a SINGLE dungeon for ONE item that has a 0.000001% chance to Drop AND when it does FINALLY drop you need to ROLL on it with 5-40 other people to see who even gets it!!!!!! AND you pay a monthly FEE to get Shafted! lol

• GW2 = Grinding = 100% Cosmetic ) witch is the ONLY reason for people like me to even keep playing GW2 cause ive done everything else 100times , so may as well grind )

• EVERY SINGLE OTHER MMORPG = Grind = NEEDED for top gear

( not to mention you pay monthly fee to grind!!!! lol )

so i yeah , people have no reason to complain , and all grind threads should be deleted. lol

@OP
You’re gonna get two types of people.

1st type that says “you can do everything in exotic/yellow/non-max”… that it’s all cool don’t worry…

2nd That says “yeah it’s unfair because this game has become a gear grind”… reason as to why it’s to gear grind is either “it was never supposed to be like this” or “well the added few %/stats points does make a difference”

Psuedo-3rd type “Oh yeah, this grind is nothing, I’ve grinded 9001hours in another game just to get ONE piece of gear… yeah that’s grind baby… this is nothing… NOTHING I tell YOU”

This basically summarizes everyone. I, myself, are in the 2nd group, because of the quote from Chris before this game was released:
“Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions…"
(Sorry for holding on to it, and I know I will get flamed by the 1st types that it wasn’t set in stone and it wasn’t a promise so on)
Basically that, and another reason that stems from that is it’s hard to change gear and thus you become less likely to change spec and so the game will become slowly more boring…

The majority of people play computer games to see content and a lot of people want to defeat the hardest content. In GW2 that means high level fractals (Although they aren’t that hard). In order to defeat the highest level fractal (currently 50) you need a lot of AR.
In order to get that AR you need to grind for ascended gear, or use minimal ascended gear with infusions that have been stacked, which require a substantial investment in gold. Takes some grinding (Or at least some gem buying), to get that gold.

vrannar.5618:

The majority of people play computer games to see content and a lot of people want to defeat the hardest content. In GW2 that means high level fractals (Although they aren’t that hard). In order to defeat the highest level fractal (currently 50) you need a lot of AR.
In order to get that AR you need to grind for ascended gear, or use minimal ascended gear with infusions that have been stacked, which require a substantial investment in gold. Takes some grinding (Or at least some gem buying), to get that gold.

Yeah falls into 1st types saying “Yeah you only need ascended gear in fracts, you don’t need it anywhere else, so don’t worry”

vrannar.5618:

The majority of people play computer games to see content and a lot of people want to defeat the hardest content. In GW2 that means high level fractals (Although they aren’t that hard). In order to defeat the highest level fractal (currently 50) you need a lot of AR.
In order to get that AR you need to grind for ascended gear, or use minimal ascended gear with infusions that have been stacked, which require a substantial investment in gold. Takes some grinding (Or at least some gem buying), to get that gold.

by the time your personal level for fractals is even close to 50 you should have FOUND all your infusions your self. Now if your personal lvl is 20 and you want to do lvl 50 Fractals , dont complain cause thats not how ANET intended it. (you DO NOT need ascended gear for lvl 50 fractals )

ANET design this game for 2 types of players ,

1: casual: Who want to slowly progress with out grinding.
2: hard core gamers : people that grind to get stuff faster.

its like comparing does FREE games on your phone/ internet browse. you build a farm , each thing takes a long time .. OR you can pay real $$ to advance faster.

same basics principle is applied to GW2. Welcome to 21st century gaming!

I dislike the loot system here as you almost never get any gear you can actually use. I have at least 20 infused rings in my locker now, 2 armor boxes, and 3 weapon boxes. ALL useless. I also have an assortment of weapons from boxes that I did open also useless.

Crafting mats is about all you can expect with an occasional exotic you can sell. So while WoW might have competition for drops at least you get useable drops when you do win.

Maybe I’m biased because I was good at acquiring gear there….

vrannar.5618:

Maybe I’m biased because I was good at acquiring gear there….

you mean lucky i think.

I was a JC and was the Wal-Mart of gems on my server. Being rich I’d level up my crafting and thus craft those items asap. I would also be able to buy the boe on the AH. Then I made sure to run the 5 mans as much as possible.

I PUGed in with a friend who ran very successful PUG raids. He didn’t invite you back if you sucked, rage quit, etc… The raids required a coin investment at the start that was split up at end of raid to encourage people to stay until the end. After each boss kill we would roll for loot, but the person who won each piece could sell if they wished and the loot-master would loot to the buyer instead.

So other then when I won loot by rolling there was little luck involved. More like being wealthy and paying top prices for gear. My guild had a rather substantial number of raiders so I would sit out a few weeks while I was in the PUG raids. This allowed more people in my guild to get loot from the early raids AND more loot from raids when I raided with the guild because I already had the gear that dropped or better .

It was just my private competitiveness to see how well geared I could get. I didn’t begrudge anyone their gear.

Here in GW2 I like to gear up as well. I don’t earn a lot of gold because they keep a tight reign on the economy here, but I still gear up. Those precise infusions cost 35-40 G each to craft. Are they worth it? Probably not, but then what else to spend the gold on?

After I have 3-4 sets of ascended armor I’ll probably start crafting those precise omni infusions. They cost around 100 G to craft.

I don’t mind a bit of grind or that theres not a drastic power improvement. Just don’t like 3 steps forward 2 steps back.

I’m not complaining about getting AR, as a matter of fact I find people trying to sneak into fractals with AR thats too low funny. I had plenty of ascended gear to put the cheap 15 fractal relic infusions before the Fractured patch and Ascended armor came out.

What I was talking about is to run with minimal ascended gear you would need to grind up a lot of infusions to combine. IE two ascended rings would need 2+5 cheapo infusions and 2 +30 crafted infusions to allow someone to run 50th fractals with exotic gear. The more ascended gear the smaller the + on the crafted would need to be.

Theres also a 3rd type of player you didn’t mention which is integral to their success and thats the gem buyers. I donno exactly how much cash I spent on gems, but its been more than 15 dollars a month. I’m sure some people have bought hundreds if not thousands of dollars in gems in a month. Those people more than make up for the people who bought the game and never bought gems with cash.

BTW the concept of upselling in games came along long before 2000, just more prevalent because people balk at subscription fees these days. I remember when people paid hourly charges to play online in the mid 80’s and I remember upsells in the early 90’s.

Personally I prefer the subscription model, but I’ve supported Anet with some gem purchases. My cable TV is approximately 50 bucks of my 110 a month cable bill. I’d get rid of it except for my roomie as I rarely watch it, so 15 dollars a month for 150+ hours of game play per month is a real bargain.

(by the time your personal level for fractals is even close to 50 you should have FOUND all your infusions your self. Now if your personal lvl is 20 and you want to do lvl 50 Fractals , dont complain cause thats not how ANET intended it. (you DO NOT need ascended gear for lvl 50 fractals )

ANET design this game for 2 types of players ,

1: casual: Who want to slowly progress with out grinding.
2: hard core gamers : people that grind to get stuff faster.

its like comparing does FREE games on your phone/ internet browse. you build a farm , each thing takes a long time .. OR you can pay real $$ to advance faster.

same basics principle is applied to GW2. Welcome to 21st century gaming!

[/quote]

Ralron.8124:

GW2 have a steeper grind? you kidding me!!?!?!?! have you not played WoW!!!

WoW = Farm a SINGLE dungeon for ONE item that has a 0.000001% chance to Drop AND when it does FINALLY drop you need to ROLL on it with 5-40 other people to see who even gets it!!!!!! AND you pay a monthly FEE to get Shafted! lol

• GW2 = Grinding = 100% Cosmetic ) witch is the ONLY reason for people like me to even keep playing GW2 cause ive done everything else 100times , so may as well grind )

• EVERY SINGLE OTHER MMORPG = Grind = NEEDED for top gear

( not to mention you pay monthly fee to grind!!!! lol )

so i yeah , people have no reason to complain , and all grind threads should be deleted. lol

There’s has been lots of feedback from players who have played WoW relatively recently that BiS gear in WoW now takes significantly less time and effort to get than ascended.

Subdue.5479:

imsoenthused.1634:

So for you, you don’t feel disenfranchised because the stat change was small. I and many other players, on the other hand, feel completely disenfranchised by the fact that they put ANY stat increase on it. So we’re going to keep complaining, to try and keep the game from making a further slide in that direction. You can feel free to keep popping up in our threads and chanting “you don’t need ascended gear”, okay?

The difference between the disenfranchisement that players who want some kind of vertical progression would have in comparison to the sort that you claim to experience is that there is no choice left for those who want the vertical progression. If there’s none in the game, all they can do is leave. And whether you like it or not, those people leaving hurts not only A.Net’s pockets, but your gaming experience as well. In contrast, those in your camp do have an option. You can simple not work towards the items. That’s right, don’t work towards them, don’t think about them, and continue playing the game exactly how you were playing it 6 months ago. If you don’t make it an issue, it won’t be one.

Right on cue. Now, psychologically, I can’t “not work towards the items.” It’s just not something I can do. I don’t like doing it, but I can’t make myself stop. So why do you keep telling that I don’t have to do something I have to do? Is it just because you don’t have to do it? Now, I recognize this in myself, and avoid games that hit that hot button. It works pretty well. Unless I start playing a game with no obsession causing vertical progression grind, and then the developers go and add such a grind for no good reason. Then it becomes kind of hard to avoid. But, once again, keep telling me that exotics work fine and I don’t have to work on ascended in spite of what my brain keeps telling me. Your ideas intrigue me, and I’d like to subscribe to your newsletter.

imsoenthused.1634:

Right on cue. Now, psychologically, I can’t “not work towards the items.” It’s just not something I can do. I don’t like doing it, but I can’t make myself stop. So why do you keep telling that I don’t have to do something I have to do? Is it just because you don’t have to do it? Now, I recognize this in myself, and avoid games that hit that hot button. It works pretty well. Unless I start playing a game with no obsession causing vertical progression grind, and then the developers go and add such a grind for no good reason. Then it becomes kind of hard to avoid. But, once again, keep telling me that exotics work fine and I don’t have to work on ascended in spite of what my brain keeps telling me. Your ideas intrigue me, and I’d like to subscribe to your newsletter.

This sounds to me like you’re admitting it’s a personal issue, not a flaw in game design. That’s something we can agree on.

Subdue.5479:

The difference between the disenfranchisement that players who want some kind of vertical progression would have in comparison to the sort that you claim to experience is that there is no choice left for those who want the vertical progression. If there’s none in the game, all they can do is leave. And whether you like it or not, those people leaving hurts not only A.Net’s pockets, but your gaming experience as well. In contrast, those in your camp do have an option. You can simple not work towards the items. That’s right, don’t work towards them, don’t think about them, and continue playing the game exactly how you were playing it 6 months ago. If you don’t make it an issue, it won’t be one.

So its ok for those who don’t want vertical progression, who want BiS gear without having to grind for it, to have to pretend that it doesn’t exist in game, but not ok for those who do want vertical progression to pretend that it does?

Subdue.5479:

not a flaw in game design.

Game design includes, in this day and age, the application of psychological principles, to the point of hiring psychologists in some cases, specifically to bring about the effect that imsoenthused describes. I don’t know if it qualifies as a, “flay,” per se, but it is by design.

Subdue.5479:

This sounds to me like you’re admitting it’s a personal issue, not a flaw in game design. That’s something we can agree on.

Nope, it’s a personal preference, not an issue. I have an issue with stupid grinds, that causes me to prefer games that don’t have them. My issue doesn’t make the stupid grind less stupid. You keep acting like the people who don’t want vertical progression like ascended in the game are wrong. We’re not. Nor does the fact that you think it’s not needed and can be ignored mean that it’s that way for everyone. I chose this game because it didn’t have this atrocious game flaw, and based on it’s predecessor I didn’t think it ever would. Then they changed it, proving my expectations wrong, and in my opinion ruining the game, just so it could be the same as bunch of other horrible MMOs and keep people who like horrible games happy.

imsoenthused.1634:

Subdue.5479:

This sounds to me like you’re admitting it’s a personal issue, not a flaw in game design. That’s something we can agree on.

Nope, it’s a personal preference, not an issue. I have an issue with stupid grinds, that causes me to prefer games that don’t have them. My issue doesn’t make the stupid grind less stupid. You keep acting like the people who don’t want vertical progression like ascended in the game are wrong. We’re not. Nor does the fact that you think it’s not needed and can be ignored mean that it’s that way for everyone. I chose this game because it didn’t have this atrocious game flaw, and based on it’s predecessor I didn’t think it ever would. Then they changed it, proving my expectations wrong, and in my opinion ruining the game, just so it could be the same as bunch of other horrible MMOs and keep people who like horrible games happy.

So people who value elements of a game differently from you are inherently wrong, and A.Net should not be trying to please as many players as possible. Got it.