Guild Wars 2

They should seriously rename the game to Autohit Hero by this point. All changes since release have basically been to create larger and larger zergs in PvE and WvW. I know that they want that “epic” feeling but its just getting plain stupid now.

Honestly I prefer the new textboxes over 11111 spam from last season.

They really need to learn to extend the new content though. It seems like they put all of this effort in for something that you play in a few minutes. ANet is experienced at alot of things, but they are terrible with creating effective filler.

I know I’m going to get hated for not bashing a game we’ve all decided to spend a lot of time in, but….

Guild Wars 2 has a lot of skip able content, unlike Guild Wars. Just because you chose not to do a certain thing in a game doesn’t mean the game itself really lacks content. I did my own comparison below in case you wish to see why I think so. The only thing I feel it really lacks, is PvP, it can’t hold a candle to Guild Wars PvP when it comes down to variety/content.

This doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like to see more content, who doesn’t? But I don’t agree Guild Wars 2 really lacks content per se, I do think they started too big and it simply gets boring after a certain while.

The way I’d compare them;
Guild Wars started with 6 classes and grew to 10 classes within 2 years, but Guild Wars 2 started off with 8 classes straight away.

Guild Wars had 5 challenging and long end-game areas; Fissure of Woe, the Underworld, Urgoz, the Deep, Domain of Anguish. Each could take an inexperienced group a few hours (and a speedclear group less than half an hour.) Guild Wars 2 has 14 different Fractal Instances, varying in time they need to be completed, 8 dungeons with 3 paths each, some take long than others, but it’s a considerable amount of content nonetheless, even though we chose to avoid any slow/challenging paths on a daily basis, such as TA Aether and Arah p4 and the community has adapted the Speedclear meta much more than in Guild Wars.

Guild Wars had 3-4 Storylines, which didn’t take that long to get through unless you got stuck on a certain mission. Guild Wars 2 only has the personal story, which in a lot of people’s (including me) opinion is a bit lackluster, it’s still quite a long story total (assuming you add up the racial stories.) On top of that there’s Dungeon Stories, which follow the NPCs Story, which is considerably longer than the average Guild Wars mission. Guild Wars 2 also has living story, which is comparable with the Guild Wars annual events (some people chose to farm Vaettir’s all week long, but some events had exclusive quest-chains aswell, similar to living story.) They also had bonus weekends, as simple as it might be, it was motivation enough for most of my friendlist to get out of their usual game-mode, atleast for a few hours. Definitely find it a better idea than Gemstore sales, which is about the only thing I can compare it with.

All in all, Guild Wars 2 might have much more content than you’re realizing since they gave you the option to skip it. Ofcourse you can argue Guild Wars had hours and hours, months and months stowed away in hunting titles, which was true. But all titles were, was playing the same story again, or cleaning a whole area, but this time the mobs hit a bit harder and have more HP. That’s like calling a level 1 Fractal completely different content than a level 50 Fractal, where-as it’s simply a bit more challanging. Guild Wars 2 arguably has this system in the form of Achievements.

The only thing I feel it’s really failing on is PvP. Guild Wars 2 PvP doesn’t hold a candle towards Guild Wars PvP. Guild Wars had multiple PvP-options; Guild v Guild, Arenas, Heroes Ascend, Jade Quary, Fort Aspenwood and Alliance Battles, along with a monthly skillbalance, often shaking up the PvP-meta a little. (Frontline builds changed and most of the midline.). Where-as Guild Wars 2 has World vs World with 3 identical Borderlands, Eternal Battlegrounds and Edge of the Mist, along with one sPvP-mode and one only (excluding a hotjoin only map) which is Conquest.

Esmee.1067:

The way I’d compare them;
Guild Wars started with 6 classes and grew to 10 classes within 2 years, but Guild Wars 2 started off with 8 classes straight away.

First of all you had 2 classes to cross in any way you liked and wanted.
So GW1 started with 36 classes and ended with 100, GW2 still has 8……….

Did all of the combinations made sense ??? Of course.
But this was one of the best features…. and made GW1 such a success.
The freedom to pick from millions of skills and mix them with others.

GW2 took lots of these features out that made A-Net what they are.. or onced were, better said.

GW2 looks unfinished and so incredible uncreative like someone forced someone to program it. No love for the game no love for deatails and even worse completely
ignoring why people love GW1 so much

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

I think the topic now is how much has beed added to each game during the first two years after launch.

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

I think the topic now is how much has beed added to each game during the first two years after launch.

Sure it is. Anet made a mistake in removing a lot of content from the first year. Obviously that content was still content. It’s not not content now. Had Anet left everything in, I seriously doubt we’ve be having the same conversation to the same degree.

Anet made a mistake, and now they have to recover from that mistake. Which is fair enough. People are impatient. I understand that.

But pretending escape from Lion’s Arch, the Marionette and the Nightmare Tower never happened is not being completely truthful either.

Vayne.8563:

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

I think the topic now is how much has beed added to each game during the first two years after launch.

Sure it is. Anet made a mistake in removing a lot of content from the first year. Obviously that content was still content. It’s not not content now. Had Anet left everything in, I seriously doubt we’ve be having the same conversation to the same degree.

Anet made a mistake, and now they have to recover from that mistake. Which is fair enough. People are impatient. I understand that.

But pretending escape from Lion’s Arch, the Marionette and the Nightmare Tower never happened is not being completely truthful either.

I think this still would be a reasonable argument even if they didn’t remove anything. Season 1 didn’t expand the world, didn’t bring new professions, didn’t bring new races. Number of new skills were also minimal . I’d say the two dungeons would be better off as separated dungeons, not fractals and the marionette was enjoyable , and the tower , I don’t really have an opinion about that… still all of these combined would make a smallish DLC in other games.

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

I think the topic now is how much has beed added to each game during the first two years after launch.

Sure it is. Anet made a mistake in removing a lot of content from the first year. Obviously that content was still content. It’s not not content now. Had Anet left everything in, I seriously doubt we’ve be having the same conversation to the same degree.

Anet made a mistake, and now they have to recover from that mistake. Which is fair enough. People are impatient. I understand that.

But pretending escape from Lion’s Arch, the Marionette and the Nightmare Tower never happened is not being completely truthful either.

I think this still would be a reasonable argument even if they didn’t remove anything. Season 1 didn’t expand the world, didn’t bring new professions, didn’t bring new races. Number of new skills were also minimal . I’d say the two dungeons would be better off as separated dungeons, not fractals and the marionette was enjoyable , and the tower , I don’t really have an opinion about that… still all of these combined would make a smallish DLC in other games.

You’d have a point if this game weren’t bigger and more ambitious and launched early. People are comparing Guild Wars 2 to a much more modest proposition that wasn’t a true MMO.

They have been playing catch up and anyone who doesn’t see it just isn’t looking. Many MMOs wait two years before an expansion. It’s not unheard of.

But people want to compare this to a non-MMO. Okay. Compare away.

8 years ago, Anet provided more content to a lobby game. So noted.

Vayne.8563:

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

I think the topic now is how much has beed added to each game during the first two years after launch.

Sure it is. Anet made a mistake in removing a lot of content from the first year. Obviously that content was still content. It’s not not content now. Had Anet left everything in, I seriously doubt we’ve be having the same conversation to the same degree.

Anet made a mistake, and now they have to recover from that mistake. Which is fair enough. People are impatient. I understand that.

But pretending escape from Lion’s Arch, the Marionette and the Nightmare Tower never happened is not being completely truthful either.

I think this still would be a reasonable argument even if they didn’t remove anything. Season 1 didn’t expand the world, didn’t bring new professions, didn’t bring new races. Number of new skills were also minimal . I’d say the two dungeons would be better off as separated dungeons, not fractals and the marionette was enjoyable , and the tower , I don’t really have an opinion about that… still all of these combined would make a smallish DLC in other games.

You’d have a point if this game weren’t bigger and more ambitious and launched early. People are comparing Guild Wars 2 to a much more modest proposition that wasn’t a true MMO.

They have been playing catch up and anyone who doesn’t see it just isn’t looking. Many MMOs wait two years before an expansion. It’s not unheard of.

But people want to compare this to a non-MMO. Okay. Compare away.

8 years ago, Anet provided more content to a lobby game. So noted.

I do agree GW2 launched early, but I fail to see they are adding things they originally wanted, but didn’t have time for. There are tons of signs they wanted to do things here and there since launch, few example guild weapons merchant with “Coming soon” tab, 4-5 activity / city , they talked about a few , they even said “you will see these things at launch”, yet they didn’t add these ever since. There are some NPCs if you talk to a tab opens up and disappears instantly.

There have been changes like the megaservers, removing MF as a stat, new pvp reward system . I do believe these are after-launch ideas.

Also during the creation of GW1 anet was a lot smaller , and now the company is a lot bigger. It’s not that they waited 2 years for an expansion like you said, it’s that they don’t even say they are working on one.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

Any particular reason you’re counting Ascalonians, Canthans, and Elonians – three distinct character experiences – as a single race?

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

Any particular reason you’re counting Ascalonians, Canthans, and Elonians – three distinct character experiences – as a single race?

Because they’re all human? That’s a race to me.

I guess you can consider different nationalities different races, but I don’t recall anyone in my six years in Guild Wars 1 ever refer to them as races.

As far as I know we were all playing humans. Hell Kryta started off as a colony of Elona.

I had the same complaint about Rift. It had six races, but two were human and two were elves.

I feel like this topic has been beaten to death, but for some reason I’m wanting to contribute. GW2 feels to me like a game that released too early, because the market had a pretty big gap between new MMO’s and they wanted to capitalize on that fact. They made a really easy, fun, and great MMO. It’s really player-friendly, and the devs all seem to be cool as hell people beneath all of the “god of our chosen MMO universe” demeanor. Which is rare. If any of you guys ever played FFXI you know what I mean… those monsters wanted to addict their players to keep a monthly fee going. It was a borderline evil business model that they ran for quite a few years, and GW2 is the opposite of that in so many ways that it still amazes me. But I digress. The problem with GW2’s development IMO became that they had to fix alot of shortcomings in order to have a solid foundation to build upon. Now that the foundation is getting to be complete, I’d hope to see some of the content that a game typically would get in it’s first few years. It just took us a while to get here.

Now… the problem for me is that this is the same post I made a year or so ago in response to the same type of complaint, and here we are two years after release discussing it all over again. GW2 is a great game, with great potential. I love it like no other. But yeah….. it’s time for some of these things to start happening. Dry Top is a great map. Now we just need about 10 more of them! EoTM was a great step forward for WvW. Now we need about 10 more of them! PvP getting a unique armor skin was a great step forward. Now we need about 10 more unique armor sets in each game type! The Living Story has really stepped it up a notch this season. Now we need it to step up about 10 more notches! And on and on. I could complain about GW2’s development for about as long as I could rave about the game itself.

Let’s just be happy they’re finally looking into Guild Halls!!!!

Vayne.8563:

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

Any particular reason you’re counting Ascalonians, Canthans, and Elonians – three distinct character experiences – as a single race?

Because they’re all human? That’s a race to me.

I guess you can consider different nationalities different races, but I don’t recall anyone in my six years in Guild Wars 1 ever refer to them as races.

As far as I know we were all playing humans. Hell Kryta started off as a colony of Elona.

I had the same complaint about Rift. It had six races, but two were human and two were elves.

I guess this is a matter of subjectivity, but I’ve personally never had a problem calling two factions of the same species different races if each has distinctive differences in character models, starting zones, racial capitals, low-level quests/missions, faction reputations, etc.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

Any particular reason you’re counting Ascalonians, Canthans, and Elonians – three distinct character experiences – as a single race?

Because they’re all human? That’s a race to me.

I guess you can consider different nationalities different races, but I don’t recall anyone in my six years in Guild Wars 1 ever refer to them as races.

As far as I know we were all playing humans. Hell Kryta started off as a colony of Elona.

I had the same complaint about Rift. It had six races, but two were human and two were elves.

I guess this is a matter of subjectivity, but I’ve personally never had a problem calling two factions of the same species different races if each has distinctive differences in character models, starting zones, racial capitals, low-level quests/missions, faction reputations, etc.

It’s definitely subjective. If you started playing in a game like WoW, you likely wouldn’t see humans as a separate race…I did. If you started playing something like the Elder Scrolls series, you’d see humans as a race.

However even if you count 3 races as humans, Guild Wars 2 has 5 races.

Guild Wars 1 also had 3 story tracks but everyone played the same story in each. Didn’t matter what profession you were, only what “race”. So you had three stories to go through.

Everyone who ever played Factions had the same story. Even though the story in Guild Wars 2 isn’t as “in depth”, or rather individual story missions aren’t, there’s still more variety between even two human male warriors here. It may not mean much to some, but it means a whole lot to me.

The closest thing you have to variety in Guild Wars 1 is choosing to join Luxon or Kurzicks, which give you different missions, or in Nightfall choosing to take Master of Whispers or Magrid the Sly. You’d get one different mission for each.

The more I think about it, the more I think it’s six of one, half a dozen of another. That is to say, both games provide a variety of different experiences, and depending on which experiences you like, you’ll like one game over the other.

For example, it’s far more likely that if you’re not really into making builds, you’ll like Guild Wars 2 better than Guild Wars 1.

If you like a less linear game, you might like Guild Wars 2 better as well.

But if you are into PvP or making builds, you probably will like Guild Wars 1 a lot better. If you prefer a linear experience, more like a single player game, you might like Guild Wars 1 better too.

Just preference I guess.

why guild wars 2 doesn’t work link a valid suggestion to introduce the players who don’t think there is content in the game to the vast content that is link

for all i know gw1 was built in someones garage and gw2 was outsourced to a small army that does programming.. i really don’t know what is going on over at arena net.. and to be perfectly honest i can’t relate to the overall community of this game either.. arena net announces they are working on red grapes, they deliver white grapes, and the player community screams for wine.. it’s a shame but i feel like they are being asked to deliver things beyond their capability; at the same time i also believe when they aren’t producing only content they felt like doing, they are heartlessly going through the motions and simply filling the trough for the next herd

i’m not a gw1 vet or fan.. i’m playing it right now as sort of a missions pack to gw2, it has its merits.. i wish people would just subscribe to sanity for awhile and allow gw2 to develop into a straightforward, respectable game..

Vayne.8563:

People are comparing Guild Wars 2 to a much more modest proposition that wasn’t a true MMO.

Yes they have been or are….of course the people to whom I am referring are Anet. If the creators of both games compares them its probably expected that others will as well.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

People are comparing Guild Wars 2 to a much more modest proposition that wasn’t a true MMO.

Yes they have been or are….of course the people to whom I am referring are Anet. If the creators of both games compares them its probably expected that others will as well.

Yes they compare them all the time. Why I remember an ad just last week…oh wait…not last week. Maybe it was…I don’t know…a single line in a single video four years ago?

When has Anet compared them since that time?

It’s like when you do something wrong and your wife never forgets it, no matter how much time has passed since you’ve done it, or how much other stuff you’ve done since.

Or are you saying that Anet compares them as a matter of course now, or even since launch?

Vayne.8563:

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

I think the topic now is how much has beed added to each game during the first two years after launch.

Sure it is. Anet made a mistake in removing a lot of content from the first year. Obviously that content was still content. It’s not not content now. Had Anet left everything in, I seriously doubt we’ve be having the same conversation to the same degree.

Anet made a mistake, and now they have to recover from that mistake. Which is fair enough. People are impatient. I understand that.

But pretending escape from Lion’s Arch, the Marionette and the Nightmare Tower never happened is not being completely truthful either.

The problem is Anet is making mistakes that a company that’s made games before shouldn’t be making.

Of course removing content from the game is going to detract from the overall experience. It’s not rocket science.

If you have less things in the game – the players have less things to do.

Also – one of the things you’re missing is that GW1 was a great game and people expected better from a company that made that game.

They need 2+ years to realize we want Guild Halls?
They need 1+ years to realize we want to switch traits on the go?
Or that if the dungeon owner gets kicked / dcd people would like for the dungeon progress to not be lost?
They needed 2 years to improve Guild QOL with the “last online” feature?
They needed 1 year to realize you can’t launch a MMO of this scale without a LFG tool?

Are you seriously saying a video game company needs this much time to figure out the abcs of making a game?

Also – you say they’ve been playing catch-up – great – but how have they managed to put out so little content in two years? What are they even doing?
Even without taking out most of the LS season 1 content it still adds up to very little.

How is it that in the time of GW1 ( with less people and less funds) they could produce more content in shorter or similar time frame but now with GW2 they can’t.

Even a lot of “new updates” are just taking content away or giving us reasons to do old content – but not adding anything.

See KQ; see the new collections and let’s not forget the fractal reset – when they forced us all to lose our progress so they could bring “leaderboards” which was blatantly a lie.

Harper.4173:

The problem is Anet is making mistakes that a company that’s made games before shouldn’t be making.

Of course removing content from the game is going to detract from the overall experience. It’s not rocket science.

If you have less things in the game – the players have less things to do.

Also – one of the things you’re missing is that GW1 was a great game and people expected better from a company that made that game.

They need 2+ years to realize we want Guild Halls?
They need 1+ years to realize we want to switch traits on the go?
Or that if the dungeon owner gets kicked / dcd people would like for the dungeon progress to not be lost?
They needed 2 years to improve Guild QOL with the “last online” feature?
They needed 1 year to realize you can’t launch a MMO of this scale without a LFG tool?

Are you seriously saying a video game company needs this much time to figure out the abcs of making a game?

Also – you say they’ve been playing catch-up – great – but how have they managed to put out so little content in two years? What are they even doing?
Even without taking out most of the LS season 1 content it still adds up to very little.

How is it that in the time of GW1 ( with less people and less funds) they could produce more content in shorter or similar time frame but now with GW2 they can’t.

Even a lot of “new updates” are just taking content away or giving us reasons to do old content – but not adding anything.

See KQ; see the new collections and let’s not forget the fractal reset – when they forced us all to lose our progress so they could bring “leaderboards” which was blatantly a lie.

You do make a lot of good points, but it’s awkward for me to even think about these kind of questions. I do believe the last two year wasn’t about addig in missed out stuff since early launch, but about fixing everything they made wrong about development.
And if they want to fix everything we gonna be here for while.

Also I don’t really see them playing catch up due the temporary nature of Living Story season 1. There have been twice as much season break since end of LS1 , than actual living story, and the counter still ticking.

All of you keep talking about Arenanet as it was the same company that made Guildwars.
They are not.
The new Arenanet shares with the original Arenanet the name only.
Nothing else.
No reason to discuss as if Guildwars2 was the sequel of Guildwars.
It’s not.

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

I think the topic now is how much has beed added to each game during the first two years after launch.

Sure it is. Anet made a mistake in removing a lot of content from the first year. Obviously that content was still content. It’s not not content now. Had Anet left everything in, I seriously doubt we’ve be having the same conversation to the same degree.

Anet made a mistake, and now they have to recover from that mistake. Which is fair enough. People are impatient. I understand that.

But pretending escape from Lion’s Arch, the Marionette and the Nightmare Tower never happened is not being completely truthful either.

The problem is Anet is making mistakes that a company that’s made games before shouldn’t be making.

Of course removing content from the game is going to detract from the overall experience. It’s not rocket science.

If you have less things in the game – the players have less things to do.

Also – one of the things you’re missing is that GW1 was a great game and people expected better from a company that made that game.

They need 2+ years to realize we want Guild Halls?
They need 1+ years to realize we want to switch traits on the go?
Or that if the dungeon owner gets kicked / dcd people would like for the dungeon progress to not be lost?
They needed 2 years to improve Guild QOL with the “last online” feature?
They needed 1 year to realize you can’t launch a MMO of this scale without a LFG tool?

Are you seriously saying a video game company needs this much time to figure out the abcs of making a game?

Also – you say they’ve been playing catch-up – great – but how have they managed to put out so little content in two years? What are they even doing?
Even without taking out most of the LS season 1 content it still adds up to very little.

How is it that in the time of GW1 ( with less people and less funds) they could produce more content in shorter or similar time frame but now with GW2 they can’t.

Even a lot of “new updates” are just taking content away or giving us reasons to do old content – but not adding anything.

See KQ; see the new collections and let’s not forget the fractal reset – when they forced us all to lose our progress so they could bring “leaderboards” which was blatantly a lie.

I think you have a pretty selective view of what was going on. No, it didn’t take them 2 years to realize we want Guild Halls. Getting rid of culling, account wallets, changes to the trading post and changes to graphic backend took priority. That’s all companies really can do. Make a list of priorities. Guild Halls might be a very strong priority to you, but remember, unlike Guild Wars 1, where you had GvG, there isn’t much going on in Guild Halls. We had complete Guild Halls in Guild Wars 1 and no one really used them anyway. It isn’t a hot topic item for everyone. Large event culling is probably more important and was tackled first.

You say Anet should have known that taking things out of the game would be bad? How? It’s not like they took stuff out of Guild Wars 1 and had fans protesting. I saw what they were trying for. It was an experiment… a gamble. One of the things I like about Anet is that they DO take risks. And they learn and move on. I’m happy to support a company that takes those risks BECAUSE they take those risks.

Not everyone can be Rift…sorry WoW 2.0.

The point is, Anet has made another game, but they’ve never made an MMO before, just a lobby game with a multiplayer option. A lot of this stuff is new territory for them.

Take Archeage. All you heard about for the first week was queues. Why? because they don’t have the kind of technology Anet uses to allowed people to play while their servers were full. Anet led with that technology. Why? Because they take risks.

When you take risks, some things will work and some things won’t. I’d rather support a company that takes risks, even if it means waiting, that play yet another WoW clone.

Vayne.8563:

I think you have a pretty selective view of what was going on. No, it didn’t take them 2 years to realize we want Guild Halls. Getting rid of culling, account wallets, changes to the trading post and changes to graphic backend took priority. That’s all companies really can do. Make a list of priorities. Guild Halls might be a very strong priority to you, but remember, unlike Guild Wars 1, where you had GvG, there isn’t much going on in Guild Halls. We had complete Guild Halls in Guild Wars 1 and no one really used them anyway. It isn’t a hot topic item for everyone. Large event culling is probably more important and was tackled first.

You say Anet should have known that taking things out of the game would be bad? How? It’s not like they took stuff out of Guild Wars 1 and had fans protesting. I saw what they were trying for. It was an experiment… a gamble. One of the things I like about Anet is that they DO take risks. And they learn and move on. I’m happy to support a company that takes those risks BECAUSE they take those risks.

Not everyone can be Rift…sorry WoW 2.0.

The point is, Anet has made another game, but they’ve never made an MMO before, just a lobby game with a multiplayer option. A lot of this stuff is new territory for them.

Take Archeage. All you heard about for the first week was queues. Why? because they don’t have the kind of technology Anet uses to allowed people to play while their servers were full. Anet led with that technology. Why? Because they take risks.

When you take risks, some things will work and some things won’t. I’d rather support a company that takes risks, even if it means waiting, that play yet another WoW clone.

They making risks describes one of my previous point pretty well. Innovation >> being successful.
Anet already made a game with 6-7 million sold copies, yet they made a sequel that’s entirely different , it’s even more similar to WoW , a game GW1 players tried to escape from.

Hunter.4783:

Guild wars 1 started in 2005, by this time (2 years later) we had 4 more classes, tripled the game size, and huge amounts of regular and endgame content were added.

Guild wars 2 feels almost identical to what it was like in release.

Farming cursed shores? Check
Same old WvW? Check
Running the same dungeons? Check
Fractals? Oh wow, finally! something new. too bad it has been beaten to death for over a year now.

Let’s make a more detailed comparisson of dungeons:

Dungeons:
Over the last 2 years we started with the Fractals of the Mists (loads of new dungeons there) then continued with Molten Facility, then went on to Aetherblade Retreat, then Twilight Arbor Aetherpath, then the Thaumanova Reactor (at that point Molten Facility and Aetherblade Retreat became part of Fractals), that’s a new dungeon experience to run/farm every few months.

Combined, in 2 years time, you got 11 Fractals, (I don’t count the 3 Boss Fractals) and 1 new dungeon path (Aetherpath) which means 12 new dungeons, the original game had 8 dungeons, 4 paths each (including Story, plus one more for Arah), that’s 33 dungeon paths. So in 2 years we got 12 more dungeons over the 32 pre-existing ones, that’s 37% more dungeons in 2 years.

Guild Wars 1 had: Sorrow’s Furnace (5 different paths), Tomb of Primeval Kings (pve version), The Deep, Urgoz Warren, and the Domain of Anguish. Of course GW1 elite areas are way larger than GW2 dungeons, there is a huge size difference but for the shake of comparing the two I won’t take that into account. GW1 had only 2 dungeon-like areas at release, Fissure of Woe and Underworld, which means over 2 years they added four times the dungeons.

Of course the key here is that GW1 started with very few dungeons, so adding more was a high priority (for example eotm, released 3 years later, added 18 (!!!) new dungeons), but GW2 started with way more dungeons at release so adding new ones wasn’t/isn’t a high priority.

Is it just me or are there only a handful of topics on forums and about 10 people nattering back and forth at each other?

Yargesh.4965:

Is it just me or are there only a handful of topics on forums and about 10 people nattering back and forth at each other?

Nope that seems about right. But it can be fun to watch

Vayne.8563:

I think you have a pretty selective view of what was going on. No, it didn’t take them 2 years to realize we want Guild Halls. Getting rid of culling, account wallets, changes to the trading post and changes to graphic backend took priority. That’s all companies really can do. Make a list of priorities. Guild Halls might be a very strong priority to you, but remember, unlike Guild Wars 1, where you had GvG, there isn’t much going on in Guild Halls. We had complete Guild Halls in Guild Wars 1 and no one really used them anyway. It isn’t a hot topic item for everyone. Large event culling is probably more important and was tackled first.

You say Anet should have known that taking things out of the game would be bad? How? It’s not like they took stuff out of Guild Wars 1 and had fans protesting. I saw what they were trying for. It was an experiment… a gamble. One of the things I like about Anet is that they DO take risks. And they learn and move on. I’m happy to support a company that takes those risks BECAUSE they take those risks.

Not everyone can be Rift…sorry WoW 2.0.

The point is, Anet has made another game, but they’ve never made an MMO before, just a lobby game with a multiplayer option. A lot of this stuff is new territory for them.

Take Archeage. All you heard about for the first week was queues. Why? because they don’t have the kind of technology Anet uses to allowed people to play while their servers were full. Anet led with that technology. Why? Because they take risks.

When you take risks, some things will work and some things won’t. I’d rather support a company that takes risks, even if it means waiting, that play yet another WoW clone.

Culling, wallets and trading post changes take more man power than creating content? I’m sorry I don’t buy it.

And I might sound pretentious – but why didn’t they get it right the first time? It’s not like they didn’t test the game.
It’s not like culling became a problem over night.
It’s not like an account-wide wallet was so far out there the game needed to run for 2 years for them to imagine then implement it.

These should have been in the game at launch. Just like the wardrobe – which we asked for a million times before we got it.

Half a year from now they’ll add Trait templates and you’ll be telling us they didn’t do this or that because they were making trait templates. How is it that these weren’t in the game at launch?

You build game 1 – have build templates in it – but when you build game 2 you forget that you had an idea that worked and do nothing for 2 years?

I’m amazed at “nobody even used guild halls” we must have played a different GW1 altogether.

Also I do realize priorities – I’m just saying they should have done better.
Event culling is a priority – sure – it’s also something they knew about since the first playable demo at gamescom ( since it was an issue then too) and should have fixed it earlier.

I’m not saying they’re not doing important fixes. I’m saying they’re doing Quality of Life fixes that should have been in the game day 1. That way they’d have the time and manpower to create content instead of “fixing the game”.

It’s like they built a boat – with a lot of holes in it and now are trying to patch the boat so it doesn’t sink – commendable and brilliant – also good on priorities – but what I’m saying is – I expected them to not build a boat with holes in it in the first place especially since they’ve had experience with games in the past.

You say Anet should have known that taking things out of the game would be bad? How? It’s not like they took stuff out of Guild Wars 1 and had fans protesting. I saw what they were trying for. It was an experiment… a gamble. One of the things I like about Anet is that they DO take risks. And they learn and move on. I’m happy to support a company that takes those risks BECAUSE they take those risks.

Just wow.

How can taking playable content out of the game not be bad?
Look at it any way you want – but investing RESOURCES into something then eventually throwing it away is basically wasting those resources.

How did they think the average MMO player would react? Welcome a dungeon being taken away with open arms and comments of praise?

Also – I don’t know if setting my arm on fire would be bad – I haven’t done it before – but I can have a pretty decent guess based on past experience and general logic.

This is a poor, poor excuse.

What about shutting down the servers at random intervals? Nobody knows – they haven’t done it before so it might be good? right?

There’s a difference between risks in technology and innovation and simply removing content.
One is a gamble – one is simply a bad idea. And you don’t have to be a developer to see it.

maddoctor.2738:

Hunter.4783:

Guild wars 1 started in 2005, by this time (2 years later) we had 4 more classes, tripled the game size, and huge amounts of regular and endgame content were added.

Guild wars 2 feels almost identical to what it was like in release.

Farming cursed shores? Check
Same old WvW? Check
Running the same dungeons? Check
Fractals? Oh wow, finally! something new. too bad it has been beaten to death for over a year now.

Let’s make a more detailed comparisson of dungeons:

Let’s have even more detail and bring time into the equation!

The following timeline only ignores Tixx, Halloween and Canach “dungeons” and the AC revamp. X indicate months where new dungeon content gets released, – indicate months without them. Starts at release (28 August 2012) ends Nov 2014.

<—-X-2013—-X-X——X-2014—————?>

Also lets consider that the biggest chunk of new dungeons is the first X and you can see why many people claim (although incorrectly) that GW2 dungeons are “like at launch”.

This game needs more content, either by expansion or by massive game update. Meaningless story can’t buy them time forever.

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

I think you have a pretty selective view of what was going on. No, it didn’t take them 2 years to realize we want Guild Halls. Getting rid of culling, account wallets, changes to the trading post and changes to graphic backend took priority. That’s all companies really can do. Make a list of priorities. Guild Halls might be a very strong priority to you, but remember, unlike Guild Wars 1, where you had GvG, there isn’t much going on in Guild Halls. We had complete Guild Halls in Guild Wars 1 and no one really used them anyway. It isn’t a hot topic item for everyone. Large event culling is probably more important and was tackled first.

You say Anet should have known that taking things out of the game would be bad? How? It’s not like they took stuff out of Guild Wars 1 and had fans protesting. I saw what they were trying for. It was an experiment… a gamble. One of the things I like about Anet is that they DO take risks. And they learn and move on. I’m happy to support a company that takes those risks BECAUSE they take those risks.

Not everyone can be Rift…sorry WoW 2.0.

The point is, Anet has made another game, but they’ve never made an MMO before, just a lobby game with a multiplayer option. A lot of this stuff is new territory for them.

Take Archeage. All you heard about for the first week was queues. Why? because they don’t have the kind of technology Anet uses to allowed people to play while their servers were full. Anet led with that technology. Why? Because they take risks.

When you take risks, some things will work and some things won’t. I’d rather support a company that takes risks, even if it means waiting, that play yet another WoW clone.

They making risks describes one of my previous point pretty well. Innovation >> being successful.
Anet already made a game with 6-7 million sold copies, yet they made a sequel that’s entirely different , it’s even more similar to WoW , a game GW1 players tried to escape from.

More similar to WoW does not equal similar to WoW. That’s a logical fallacy.

If Guild Wars 2 was that similar to WoW, I wouldn’t enjoy it, while disliking WoW…and I do dislike WoW. The differences are myriad.

WoW has tons of skills and many skill bars. Guild Wars 2 has a more limited skill selection like Guild Wars 1. WoW has open world PvP servers, Guild Wars 2 doesn’t. It separates them.

The best gear in WOW comes from raiding. In Guild Wars 2, the best gear comes from crafting.

The most likely people to claim Guild Wars 2 is like WoW are people who didn’t play WoW.

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

snip

Culling, wallets and trading post changes take more man power than creating content? I’m sorry I don’t buy it.

And I might sound pretentious – but why didn’t they get it right the first time? It’s not like they didn’t test the game.
It’s not like culling became a problem over night.
It’s not like an account-wide wallet was so far out there the game needed to run for 2 years for them to imagine then implement it.

These should have been in the game at launch. Just like the wardrobe – which we asked for a million times before we got it.

Half a year from now they’ll add Trait templates and you’ll be telling us they didn’t do this or that because they were making trait templates. How is it that these weren’t in the game at launch?

You build game 1 – have build templates in it – but when you build game 2 you forget that you had an idea that worked and do nothing for 2 years?

I’m amazed at “nobody even used guild halls” we must have played a different GW1 altogether.

Also I do realize priorities – I’m just saying they should have done better.
Event culling is a priority – sure – it’s also something they knew about since the first playable demo at gamescom ( since it was an issue then too) and should have fixed it earlier.

I’m not saying they’re not doing important fixes. I’m saying they’re doing Quality of Life fixes that should have been in the game day 1. That way they’d have the time and manpower to create content instead of “fixing the game”.

It’s like they built a boat – with a lot of holes in it and now are trying to patch the boat so it doesn’t sink – commendable and brilliant – also good on priorities – but what I’m saying is – I expected them to not build a boat with holes in it in the first place especially since they’ve had experience with games in the past.

You say Anet should have known that taking things out of the game would be bad? How? It’s not like they took stuff out of Guild Wars 1 and had fans protesting. I saw what they were trying for. It was an experiment… a gamble. One of the things I like about Anet is that they DO take risks. And they learn and move on. I’m happy to support a company that takes those risks BECAUSE they take those risks.

Just wow.

How can taking playable content out of the game not be bad?
Look at it any way you want – but investing RESOURCES into something then eventually throwing it away is basically wasting those resources.

How did they think the average MMO player would react? Welcome a dungeon being taken away with open arms and comments of praise?

Also – I don’t know if setting my arm on fire would be bad – I haven’t done it before – but I can have a pretty decent guess based on past experience and general logic.

This is a poor, poor excuse.

What about shutting down the servers at random intervals? Nobody knows – they haven’t done it before so it might be good? right?

There’s a difference between risks in technology and innovation and simply removing content.
One is a gamble – one is simply a bad idea. And you don’t have to be a developer to see it.

Because general logic is always right.

Simply put, Anet was trying to create an actual living breathing world. A world that moved with the time, like you know, an actual world. If everything is still there, the world isn’t really living or breathing. That’s why it was an experiment.

People didn’t like it because if they wanted to see everything it forced them to log in. But there were people who actually did like it.

In most games, old content gets abandoned and not done in favor of new content. So giving people new content made sense. Keep the old content in if it was just going to be abandoned didn’t really.

How could have have had escape from Lion’s Arch if Lion’s Arch was being rebuilt? They couldn’t. Well it could have been an instance. But not so easy to get 100 plus people doing that instance once they moved on to newer content.

Just because you don’t like how something was offered, or just because it didn’t work out didn’t mean someone didn’t have a vision or that the vision was meaningless.

The problem they didn’t count on was that enough people didn’t want to feel forced to do that content and people coming back wouldn’t be satisfied with it.

But you probably underestimate the number of people who did like it.

Vayne.8563:

More similar to WoW does not equal similar to WoW. That’s a logical fallacy.

If Guild Wars 2 was that similar to WoW, I wouldn’t enjoy it, while disliking WoW…and I do dislike WoW. The differences are myriad.

WoW has tons of skills and many skill bars. Guild Wars 2 has a more limited skill selection like Guild Wars 1. WoW has open world PvP servers, Guild Wars 2 doesn’t. It separates them.

The best gear in WOW comes from raiding. In Guild Wars 2, the best gear comes from crafting.

The most likely people to claim Guild Wars 2 is like WoW are people who didn’t play WoW.

That’s why I said “more similar”. GW2 has gear progression, crafting, gathering and a loads of other things that has presence in WoW ,yet GW was fine without it.

Also to craft Ascended gear , even if not the traditional way, but you have to play with 10-20+ of random people to get dragonite ore, so in a twisted way you can say to craft ascended (the best gear in the game) you have to raid.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.

Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.

Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.

Those professions came in pairs for each character. That’s 30 combinations at launch, 56 combinations one year later (just by adding two base professions), and 90 combinations six more months later.

How many combinations of race and profession did you say there were in GW2? How long has it been like that? Is that 500% more variety than what GW had? You’re able to do the math, right? I mean, it’s not like you would just avoid numbers or basic properties of the game when they don’t align with your shilling agenda, right?

The REAL problem is 2 fold.

1) Lack of any real new content.

You can argue AC remake or Canach “dungeon” (….lol) are content but running through AC now, its really 95% similar to launch to the point it feeling the same. What they did were bug fixes to broken bosses, not much else. And Canach dungeon is….lol or was i should say. In any case, with the exception is fractals, anything else is exactly as it was at launch.

2) lack of meaningful rewards or a character progression system. Playing dress up, or as they like to call it “horizontal” character progression can only last people so far before they get bored. You need real ways to advance your characters. Ascended items were simply a slap in the face to any player because they failed to give any meaningful upgrades yet were/are a grindfest. Vertical progression is a necessary evil to any MMO because it keeps players interesting and dedicated. Getting a new sword which increases overall DPS by 20% is sure as hell a cause for celebration for most players. And its that feeling that keeps them logging on.

Horizontal progression done right can can last a very long time.

They can introduce regional boosts that, when activated, give passive buffs to damage reduction or outgoing player damage (like the ones in eotn). Introduce a variety of them and add a decent amount of vertical progression to each (with noticeable difference between levels) and we will be kept busy for a while. These buffs can give specific bonuses against regional champs/world bosses for added incentive.

Map completion of an area can maybe reduce the waypoint cost for that area by a little, Merchants can grant more items for sale at reduced prices, passive speed boost for quicker movement, etc.

All these can come with more achievements and rewards of their own at completion.

Nearly everything can be modified for horizontal progression soul or accountbound. For example, consumables for exchanging dungeon tokens give boosted rewards inside or offer new waypoints or shortcuts, etc.

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

More similar to WoW does not equal similar to WoW. That’s a logical fallacy.

If Guild Wars 2 was that similar to WoW, I wouldn’t enjoy it, while disliking WoW…and I do dislike WoW. The differences are myriad.

WoW has tons of skills and many skill bars. Guild Wars 2 has a more limited skill selection like Guild Wars 1. WoW has open world PvP servers, Guild Wars 2 doesn’t. It separates them.

The best gear in WOW comes from raiding. In Guild Wars 2, the best gear comes from crafting.

The most likely people to claim Guild Wars 2 is like WoW are people who didn’t play WoW.

That’s why I said “more similar”. GW2 has gear progression, crafting, gathering and a loads of other things that has presence in WoW ,yet GW was fine without it.

Also to craft Ascended gear , even if not the traditional way, but you have to play with 10-20+ of random people to get dragonite ore, so in a twisted way you can say to craft ascended (the best gear in the game) you have to raid.

Guild Wars 2 has minimal gear progression. Saying it has gear progression doesn’t make it like WoW, as if there’s only one sort of gear progression. It does have gathering but so do a million other MMOs. Guild Wars 1 didn’t but I don’t see gathering as a big deal…and I think a whole lot of people, even Guild Wars 1 players like it. In fact Guild Wars 1 did have crafting after a fashion, you just didn’t craft it yourself. But you still had to gather mats…or buy mats. You don’t have to play with people to get Dragonite Orr, you have to play beside them. Plenty of Dragonite to be had in drytop but you never have to group for it. You can also get it from world bosses (which no one could honestly call raids), WvW, SPvP (which most people wouldn’t call raids either).

You’re trying to fit a round peg in a square hole to make an argument. The closest thing in this game to an actual raid would be Triple Threat. Beyond that, there’s nothing all that close to raiding in this game, and you certainly don’t need to do anything like a raid to get dragonite ore.

Hunter.4783:

The REAL problem is 2 fold.

1) Lack of any real new content.

You can argue AC remake or Canach “dungeon” (….lol) are content but running through AC now, its really 95% similar to launch to the point it feeling the same. What they did were bug fixes to broken bosses, not much else. And Canach dungeon is….lol or was i should say. In any case, with the exception is fractals, anything else is exactly as it was at launch.

2) lack of meaningful rewards or a character progression system. Playing dress up, or as they like to call it “horizontal” character progression can only last people so far before they get bored. You need real ways to advance your characters. Ascended items were simply a slap in the face to any player because they failed to give any meaningful upgrades yet were/are a grindfest. Vertical progression is a necessary evil to any MMO because it keeps players interesting and dedicated. Getting a new sword which increases overall DPS by 20% is sure as hell a cause for celebration for most players. And its that feeling that keeps them logging on.

The vertical progression thing I disagree with. That might be the case for other MMOs but GW2’s player base would not like it. The uproar that came with ascended proves that.

Horizontal rewards are the way – but make them exclusive and awesome. Make them obtainable in-game.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has minimal gear progression. Saying it has gear progression doesn’t make it like WoW, as if there’s only one sort of gear progression. It does have gathering but so do a million other MMOs. Guild Wars 1 didn’t but I don’t see gathering as a big deal…and I think a whole lot of people, even Guild Wars 1 players like it. In fact Guild Wars 1 did have crafting after a fashion, you just didn’t craft it yourself. But you still had to gather mats…or buy mats. You don’t have to play with people to get Dragonite Orr, you have to play beside them. Plenty of Dragonite to be had in drytop but you never have to group for it. You can also get it from world bosses (which no one could honestly call raids), WvW, SPvP (which most people wouldn’t call raids either).

You’re trying to fit a round peg in a square hole to make an argument. The closest thing in this game to an actual raid would be Triple Threat. Beyond that, there’s nothing all that close to raiding in this game, and you certainly don’t need to do anything like a raid to get dragonite ore.

Doesn’t change the fact to have the best quality armor/weapon you have to complete specific type of content (Like in WoW) even if you dont like it. Also raiding doesn’t necessarily happen in premade groups or in instances, open world raiding is a form of raiding too ,and nowadays you dont see world bosses without a big ol’ zerg. Also, WvW with heavily organized TS & zergs counts as raiding in my book too. And why would I PvP to get PvE things I can’t sell?

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has minimal gear progression. Saying it has gear progression doesn’t make it like WoW, as if there’s only one sort of gear progression. It does have gathering but so do a million other MMOs. Guild Wars 1 didn’t but I don’t see gathering as a big deal…and I think a whole lot of people, even Guild Wars 1 players like it. In fact Guild Wars 1 did have crafting after a fashion, you just didn’t craft it yourself. But you still had to gather mats…or buy mats. You don’t have to play with people to get Dragonite Orr, you have to play beside them. Plenty of Dragonite to be had in drytop but you never have to group for it. You can also get it from world bosses (which no one could honestly call raids), WvW, SPvP (which most people wouldn’t call raids either).

You’re trying to fit a round peg in a square hole to make an argument. The closest thing in this game to an actual raid would be Triple Threat. Beyond that, there’s nothing all that close to raiding in this game, and you certainly don’t need to do anything like a raid to get dragonite ore.

Doesn’t change the fact to have the best quality armor/weapon you have to complete specific type of content (Like in WoW) even if you dont like it. Also raiding doesn’t necessarily happen in premade groups or in instances, open world raiding is a form of raiding too ,and nowadays you dont see world bosses without a big ol’ zerg. Also, WvW with heavily organized TS & zergs counts as raiding in my book too. And why would I PvP to get PvE things I can’t sell?

How is WvW, SPvP, World Bosses and events in Drytop a specific type of content? Not to mention a chance of ascended gear dropping in fractals on top of that.

Vayne.8563:

Because general logic is always right.

Simply put, Anet was trying to create an actual living breathing world. A world that moved with the time, like you know, an actual world. If everything is still there, the world isn’t really living or breathing. That’s why it was an experiment.

People didn’t like it because if they wanted to see everything it forced them to log in. But there were people who actually did like it.

In most games, old content gets abandoned and not done in favor of new content. So giving people new content made sense. Keep the old content in if it was just going to be abandoned didn’t really.

How could have have had escape from Lion’s Arch if Lion’s Arch was being rebuilt? They couldn’t. Well it could have been an instance. But not so easy to get 100 plus people doing that instance once they moved on to newer content.

Just because you don’t like how something was offered, or just because it didn’t work out didn’t mean someone didn’t have a vision or that the vision was meaningless.

The problem they didn’t count on was that enough people didn’t want to feel forced to do that content and people coming back wouldn’t be satisfied with it.

But you probably underestimate the number of people who did like it.

A living breathing world? It doesn’t work. It wasn’t even an experiment – they had NO idea what they were doing.

Orr is perpetually stuck. So are many other areas. Unless you go all-in 100% you’re not going to do it. And even if you do the fact that players can’t go back to experience past events is a deal breaker for people who haven’t been with the game at launch.

How is it that part of the world can change but other parts can’t? It was a mess. The whole concept is a mess and will remain one.

People didn’t like it because :

1) It forces you to play on Anet’s terms – which is problematic.
2) It doesn’t add to the game.

Yes – common sense is right – yes taking away content is extremely easy to spot out as a bad idea if you’re making a game. That’s not how you improve the situation when your player base has already asked for more content over and over again this being one of the most common complaints that we see on the forums.

Old content gets abandoned? Sure great – let’s take it out of the game for good.

Old content gets abandoned only if :

1)There are no new players coming in.
2)There are no decent rewards tied to it.

But even so – removing it makes no sense. Hell – why not remove all the old dungeons by now? after all they’re pretty old content.

LA is one thing – the dungeons I mentioned are another thing.

One type of content was clearly temporary and story related – which I can understand – but the dungeons – why’d they have to take those out of the game? What was the logic?

I understand you’re trying to defend Anet- I did too for a good while – but like I said – I’d rather they’d made the game right the first time.

And while these “experiments” can be debated over – there are other blatant quality of life things that should have come with the game and didn’t.

I still want your opinion on some things because I feel you’re only addressing some points and just “ignoring” others. So please – your thoughts on :

-Lack of trait templates.
-Lack of LFG tool at launch.
-Lack of trait respect on the go at launch.
-Addition of ascended gear.
-Fractal reset and the subsequent “fractal leaderboards”.
-New legendary weapons and new legendary types coming in 2013

Please address these in any order you see fit. These aren’t just fluff – they’re huge mistakes by a company that should know better.

They’re huge omissions or intentional deception of the player base. Were you not here when these things happened?

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Because general logic is always right.

Simply put, Anet was trying to create an actual living breathing world. A world that moved with the time, like you know, an actual world. If everything is still there, the world isn’t really living or breathing. That’s why it was an experiment.

People didn’t like it because if they wanted to see everything it forced them to log in. But there were people who actually did like it.

In most games, old content gets abandoned and not done in favor of new content. So giving people new content made sense. Keep the old content in if it was just going to be abandoned didn’t really.

How could have have had escape from Lion’s Arch if Lion’s Arch was being rebuilt? They couldn’t. Well it could have been an instance. But not so easy to get 100 plus people doing that instance once they moved on to newer content.

Just because you don’t like how something was offered, or just because it didn’t work out didn’t mean someone didn’t have a vision or that the vision was meaningless.

The problem they didn’t count on was that enough people didn’t want to feel forced to do that content and people coming back wouldn’t be satisfied with it.

But you probably underestimate the number of people who did like it.

A living breathing world? It doesn’t work. It wasn’t even an experiment – they had NO idea what they were doing.

Orr is perpetually stuck. So are many other areas. Unless you go all-in 100% you’re not going to do it. And even if you do the fact that players can’t go back to experience past events is a deal breaker for people who haven’t been with the game at launch.

How is it that part of the world can change but other parts can’t? It was a mess. The whole concept is a mess and will remain one.

People didn’t like it because :

1) It forces you to play on Anet’s terms – which is problematic.
2) It doesn’t add to the game.

Yes – common sense is right – yes taking away content is extremely easy to spot out as a bad idea if you’re making a game. That’s not how you improve the situation when your player base has already asked for more content over and over again this being one of the most common complaints that we see on the forums.

Old content gets abandoned? Sure great – let’s take it out of the game for good.

Old content gets abandoned only if :

1)There are no new players coming in.
2)There are no decent rewards tied to it.

But even so – removing it makes no sense. Hell – why not remove all the old dungeons by now? after all they’re pretty old content.

LA is one thing – the dungeons I mentioned are another thing.

One type of content was clearly temporary and story related – which I can understand – but the dungeons – why’d they have to take those out of the game? What was the logic?

I understand you’re trying to defend Anet- I did too for a good while – but like I said – I’d rather they’d made the game right the first time.

And while these “experiments” can be debated over – there are other blatant quality of life things that should have come with the game and didn’t.

I still want your opinion on some things because I feel you’re only addressing some points and just “ignoring” others. So please – your thoughts on :

-Lack of trait templates.
-Lack of LFG tool at launch.
-Lack of trait respect on the go at launch.
-Addition of ascended gear.
-Fractal reset and the subsequent “fractal leaderboards”.
-New legendary weapons and new legendary types coming in 2013

Please address these in any order you see fit. These aren’t just fluff – they’re huge mistakes by a company that should know better.

They’re huge omissions or intentional deception of the player base. Were you not here when these things happened?

There’s no such thing as making the game “right” the first time. Because different people have different rights. You’re so vested in your disappointment you can’t see that some people are disappointed and some aren’t, even even those who are, aren’t necessarily disappointed by the same thing. What percent of the playerbase was affected, do you think, by the Fractal reset?

Have you ever even looked at another MMORPG forum. They all look just like this one, unless the company deletes all negative posts.

Kurrilino.2706:

Esmee.1067:

The way I’d compare them;
Guild Wars started with 6 classes and grew to 10 classes within 2 years, but Guild Wars 2 started off with 8 classes straight away.

---

First of all you had 2 classes to cross in any way you liked and wanted.
So GW1 started with 36 classes and ended with 100, GW2 still has 8……….

Did all of the combinations made sense ??? Of course.
But this was one of the best features…. and made GW1 such a success.
The freedom to pick from millions of skills and mix them with others.

GW2 took lots of these features out that made A-Net what they are.. or onced were, better said.

GW2 looks unfinished and so incredible uncreative like someone forced someone to program it. No love for the game no love for deatails and even worse completely
ignoring why people love GW1 so much

The double professions and large amount of skills in GW1 is what also kept the game really unbalanced and the double professions and the large number of skills that came with it is also what made a lot players shy away from the game because it was to overwhelming for them (hints* why Anet dumb down GW2).

With the countless nerfs from Anet destroying entire professions and entire skill lines, 90% of the skills went unused because of nerfs or the skill effect was basically worthless. With the use of henchmen and heros many players just went for the very overpowered builds and did the game solo killing the player interaction part of the game.

Don’t forget many of the skills where just copy and paste skills meaning the base game and each expansion had skills that where the same when it came to doing the same effect just called by a different name.

That’s why Anet did away with the second profession concept to help new players not feel overwhelmed and focus on the quality of the skills rather than the quantity of skills. This also help prevent overpowered builds from creating chaos in-game and help keep the player interaction alive that was killed off early on in GW1.

“The game wasn’t done when it was released” meaning what because everyone has a different definition of what finished means.

Just because Anet didn’t include or has since made and released everything everyone loved in GW1 like guild halls, GvG and so on, aren’t going about handling GW2 like they did with GW1 meaning focusing only on expansions packs and nothing else and aren’t releasing new dungeons and what not on a daily or weekly basis doesn’t mean the game wasn’t “done”.

If Anet did included everything everyone wanted at the launch of the game this very conversation would still be going on because some players would still be complaining that a certain feature they wanted wasn’t included in the game at launch and that GW2 is boring since they have done everything there is to do in the game and nothing new is being released.

Personally I’m glad Anet isn’t handling GW2 like they did GW1, why? Because they are active in GW2 while in GW1 they ignored the game when working on a new expansion and when it got released pretending the game before that didn’t exist which caused the in-game economy to crash and burn do to overpowered builds running wild and bots left to run free.

Vayne.8563:

Have you ever even looked at another MMORPG forum. They all look just like this one, unless the company deletes all negative posts.

Well, look at GW1 facebook page for example.

Hunter.4783:

…
So dear Anet i ask you, where is the real content?
…

Press [O] in game then you get to the real content…. thats the sad truth to be honest

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guild-Wars-2-Years/first#post4360502

This was posted about a month ago by a good friend of mine. It’s totally relevant to this discussion.

Vayne.8563:

There’s no such thing as making the game “right” the first time. Because different people have different rights. You’re so vested in your disappointment you can’t see that some people are disappointed and some aren’t, even even those who are, aren’t necessarily disappointed by the same thing. What percent of the playerbase was affected, do you think, by the Fractal reset?

Have you ever even looked at another MMORPG forum. They all look just like this one, unless the company deletes all negative posts.

It’s not the reset itself. It’s the lies. It’s the “we need to do this reset in order to implement leaderboards” which implied they had a system thought out and ready to implement.
It’s the fact that our progress was reset for nothing and leaderboards were just an excuse. That’s what I’m disappointed about.

It’s the fact that they promise and don’t even bother to say " we won’t be able to do it, stuff has come up".

It’s the fact that they have good ideas in the past which they magically forget about only to add them back 2 years later after much player demand and act like they’ve reinvented the wheel.

All I hope is that the whole living story approach is discarded entirely. It’s not a story, nor it is good quality content. It’s just a vehicle for driving gem sales and I hate it.

What I hate the most though is the extent to which it has overridden the priority of creating any other content. WVW is basically all I bought this game for (well, sPVP as well but that turned out to be a huge disappointment) and the amount of new content that’s been added in 2 years is really disappointing, moreso because the content that was added was content noone was asking for and didn’t really add anything to the game.

The balancing in this game and rate of improvement in this game has also turned out to be spectacularly subpar – 2 years after release and the number of skills added and range of viable specs has barely changed.

So yeah, I would much prefer GW1-style large, episodic updates with real content I can actually enjoy instead of half-baked, rushed LS-style “content”. More than anything though, I just want other content development efforts to be normalised to some semblance of a reasonable pace of development.

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Have you ever even looked at another MMORPG forum. They all look just like this one, unless the company deletes all negative posts.

Well, look at GW1 facebook page for example.

Facebook page ain’t a forum. lol Guild Wars 1 had no official forum and many of the types of people who post on forums never look at facebook.

Guild Wars 1 isn’t an MMO and even if it was, at this point, I’m sure most of the population isn’t posting about negative stuff, because the game is in stasis. Nothing happens there TO post about.

It’s like saying look at the forums for any older game that hasn’t been updated in a couple of years. What is there to post about?

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

There’s no such thing as making the game “right” the first time. Because different people have different rights. You’re so vested in your disappointment you can’t see that some people are disappointed and some aren’t, even even those who are, aren’t necessarily disappointed by the same thing. What percent of the playerbase was affected, do you think, by the Fractal reset?

Have you ever even looked at another MMORPG forum. They all look just like this one, unless the company deletes all negative posts.

It’s not the reset itself. It’s the lies. It’s the “we need to do this reset in order to implement leaderboards” which implied they had a system thought out and ready to implement.
It’s the fact that our progress was reset for nothing and leaderboards were just an excuse. That’s what I’m disappointed about.

It’s the fact that they promise and don’t even bother to say " we won’t be able to do it, stuff has come up".

It’s the fact that they have good ideas in the past which they magically forget about only to add them back 2 years later after much player demand and act like they’ve reinvented the wheel.

Was it a lie or did the leaderboard get scrapped for a reason we don’t know about, or did it get put on the back burner? When it was said, was that the reason? Everyone always wants to say lie, but you know, sometimes situations change.

Either way, Anet should make a direct statement about it.