Guild Wars 2

So I have slowly been creating Twilight over the past wee while and now looking at the 1k gold pile that I need to raise to afford Dusk at its current Trade Post price im starting to feel like Gw2 is a grind, I know that the developers said that they wanted to make the game feel like it wasnt a grind but I think some of the recent changes and perhaps lack of change has made it into one of the most grindy games I have ever played. does anybody else think that the whole Idea of needing a precurser or puting so much focus on gold has made Gw2 into a grind? because all I seem to be doing when I play is earning gold by grinding different dungeon paths or doing pvp which is kind of a grind aswell to level… :L perhaps ii play wrong.

No I personally think FlyFF beats this game by a long shot. But that’s personal experience~

Rappelz, Teso, even wow from what i hear are much bigger grindfests. Especiall rappelz. If you guys played that game without cash shop usage you would go mad. Seriously mad (if gw2 is already bothering you).

Guild Wars 1 has a grind to get max titles and Guild Wars 2 has a grind to get the end vanity items. It’s set up as the core of both games. They want you to earn them. Granted they didn’t do a very good job with the Legendaries in this game, but the no grind only referred to leveling not going after one of the end game goals.

Depends on what you want to do.

If your goal is to fully deck a character (or several) in the very best you can get (legendary weapons, full ascended armor), then yes, I do agree it’s one of the most grindiest games I’ve seen so far.

On the other hand, when it comes to actually playing, I’d say it’s one of the less grindy MMOs I’ve played. I can get to level 80 and spend a little money in a rare (yellow) quality set right away on the TP, and except for high level fractals, I’d be ready for almost everything the game has to offer.

Personally I’m just going on for the ride enjoying myself, don’t even think about getting a legendary (don’t change builds that often for the stat switching to be that good for me, and there are several exotics that I like how they look better than the legendaries), and slooowly making my way to ascendeds (just crafted my first weapon, a hammer, about a month ago, working on a second one, and slowly leveling armorcrafting to start my first ascended armor piece),

Peeachxd.3786:

perhaps ii play wrong.

Yeah, I’m fairly convinced that you do. It’s entirely subjective, though.

I barely ever do anything in GW2 that I feel isn’t fun. This mean that I usually play a maximum of 3 hours a day. I don’t complete my daily if I I don’t feel like it’s enjoyable.
I do the dungeons I want to; Even if it may be more gold-efficient dungeons to run, the game isn’t about making money (it’s not a job). The game is about having fun.
I sure would like to have an Incinerator, but that will take a few months since I don’t grind in this game. Grind is optional. There’s no hurry but the one you make.

The plus side is you can see the progress you are making. Unlike with other grind games you grind with no way to see the light at the end of the tunnel. So I would say do to that it is less grindy even though it feels like it is more.

There is plenty of do on GW2 without grinding plus Legendaries are over rated and a luxury “choice” and in no way needed because Ascended weapons are just as good and easier to get. I’ve played some MMOs that are grind fests, GW2 is anything but a grind fest unless someone individually makes it be one for themselves. Just enjoy the game and get what you get at whatever pace you have fun at and if that’s not working for you then maybe it’s time to take a break from GW2. I’ve taken a break from the game a couple times before and it helped make the game more fun again for me personally.

The promise of GW2 has never been “no grind,” it’s been “no grind for stats, grind for cosmetics.”

You could argue as to whether the game has been successful (I think Ascended equipment is where ArenaNet faltered…) but that was always the deal.

Twilight is a completely unnecessary cosmetic upgrade to an Ascended greatsword. That’s why it seems like a grind.

Legendaries, I have never considered a grind. That’s because I’ve treated them the way they should be treated. I haven’t dedicated all my time to farming stuff for them, I’ve just let it happen naturally. Granted I don’t actually have a legendary yet, but I’m getting pretty close.

I’ve been trying to get full ascended as well which, again, has only been grindy when I made it grindy. Especially with the recent patch, I feel like I can play just about any aspect of the game and make some progress towards the items I wish to obtain. That isn’t a grind. That’s just playing the game and having fun!

… never played STO I see.

We have FOTM for a good chance at obtaining Ascended gear, we can craft Ascended gear which many components comes from lower level materials that are intended to be gathered while roaming the game world, perhaps gather while waiting for a world boss to start or whatever else. All of the materials are obtainable over time without grinding for them. Anyone that grinds for something simply wants said item faster than Anet intended the itended.

If anyone grinds on GW2, it’s their choice but by far is no requirement. This “grind” happens in all MMOs because there are always people that wants the “supposed” end game or current best gear as fast as possible and grinds to get it. My advice is to not care what other people thinks or has. If the next person wanted to No-Life it for a while and grind for a legendary then let them lol.

Anet spread out what is needed for Legendary and Ascended most likely to encourage people to actually play the game and not stay in one spot. Yesterday just while roaming the game world, running a few dungeons, doing a few world bosses and random champs, among loot I got were 7 powerful bloods. Sure for Legendary you need 250 of this that etc but I got those without even farming for them so just play the game and get what you get when you get it. Ascended and Legendary provides a small stat increase from Exotic so it’s not a need, just a luxury with little benefit past the visual.

when I see these posts I chuckle… poor souls, don’t know what the real grind is

There are some grinds in GW2 but generally you can see what’s coming and easily avoid it if you want to. Some cosmetics are bad grinds but they are just cosmetics that nobody actually needs. Achievements are only as important as you choose to make them. Fractals require grind but anyone can stop grinding upwards at any time their patience is exhausted.

Pretty sure OP playing it wrong(or just play tp wrong), I got my 650g buy order fill in 2 days back when highest buy offer for dusk was 800~900g, compete with highest offer just make you a sucker.

As for grinding, there are far worst Korean grinder out there, even some Chinese ones can drive you insane despite having build-in bot features in game.

I know what a real grind is and gw 2 is far worse than those. I played grindy games and I loved every one of them and here’s why:

Yet in the games mentioned, a level grind does not always include a very steep gear or loot grind with it. I always prefer a sensible gear grind over a really easy max level.

Gw 2 barely has a sensible gear grind for ascended or legendary as nothing really drops for the effort invested.

Most grindy games as you say I played; I can get all the materials I need for stuff even just one piece of armor farming only for an hour. Which is very good value for time spent. I did this in RO many times, one hour and I could make my potions or w/e, granted I was on a free sever with increased drop rates etc, but other game with crafting etc. The level grind as not so great and I didn’t care so much about reaching the max level right away (gear was based on stat requirements or your class only never a level limit to equip), getting loot and making stuff that I need easily was more worthwhile.

Here you will barely get one of the 15 materials to make one piece of rare armor (and you need 90 for a full set) to level up a craft in one hour. I had to give up and buy the stuff on TP when I was leveling my crafts back when. T6 for exotics is just as bad as its the same but 1/3 of the amount (5 instead of 15 for each piece). Now I’m working on ascended and I have no real way to get lower tier cloth or leather except to reroll alts.

That’s not fair to anyone here to spend 5 hours for 90 of one material or 12000 silk or w/e, when in a much grindier game as you all say, I can get it done in an hour.

I’d take the excessive grind for stuff in other game with good loot tables and an insanse level curve over this any day. Good thing I have nearly everything 500 (some are 460+), I’ll probably never level a craft again.

It’s not nearly as grindy. But grinding in GW2 is probably more boring, because other games gives new dungeon, or new quest every few level. So there are always new things to do.

But at the same time, not content locking anything gives casual access to all the content, so it is probably by design.

Getting to level 80 w/ full exotics doesn’t take much time relative to the equivalent in other games of the same genre. That’s all you really need to enjoy what the game has to offer (except maybe high level fractals? do those require ascended?).

LastShot.4762:

As for grinding, there are far worst Korean grinder out there, even some Chinese ones can drive you insane despite having build-in bot features in game.

Yep. Reason I don’t even bother with Korean MMOs.

You never played the good ones then…you are all too fast and quick to judge them all by playing only one.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

I did this in RO many times, one hour and I could make my potions or w/e, granted I was on a free sever with increased drop rates etc, but other game with crafting etc.

you DON’T know the real grind having played RO on a 1/1/1 server getting your armor (enough for a decent upgrade) then getting your cards and leveling up to 99 now THAT was grind, in comparison GW2 is a walk in the park, everything I want I have it with little effort

It is not the most grindy game ever.
It’s rather that there is only grind. So you see it everywhere.

You can do two or three things in Guild Wars 2 that are not directly related to grind. PvP, Roleplaying, and occasionally fun living story plots. And out of these only roleplaying is an MMORPG activity.

GW2 is not a good MMORPG, and it is subpar in its multiplayer/singleplayer aspects compared to Tripple A single or multiplayer games.

I’d still love it over this as I know I’ll be rewarded equally for my effort. Here there is no knowing what even drops what or if you will get anything at all cause of DR or some bug or something.

If GW 2 had even set drops on foes… I would actually enjoy it more as I can go out there and kill stuff for the fun the mystery of “will it drop? will it drop? Oh six please drop!”

FYI, I played a 4/4/4 server as my first RO server, it was pretty kitten close to 1/1/1. Highest I played was like over 100x everything or so and it was kitten easy and I hated it. No challenge or no effort. Also those 100x or more servers they had to artificially make the level caps higher (which included insanely high stats) and as an added bonus (hated this) made them open world pvp/ player killer mode for a use of that show of power.

In GW 2 I actually want to see what I kill drop what its supposed to drop on kill, if its a 25% chance to drop t 5 scale and 5% chance to drop a t 6 scale it better drop what it is rated to drop. If it doesn’t drop those at that time, drop something random like have it set to a “drop anything rate” that most games have for bad rolls so you are always rewarded.

PSO and the like have DAR and it can be anything in the game allowed to be on that massive table.

Maybe GW 2 is just one big DAR with no real set drops for anything?

I made Twilight without grinding a single hour (I can’t stand grinding, I don’t play games to be bored).

Sure, it took me over six months to get precursor, and I sold mats gathering in my bank since early star, but I did it without cash shop (except some 20 euro on gems near the end when I got impatient) and without grind. It felt pretty satisfying in the end.

On the other hand I’m a very patient person.

Also its not whether its a very grindy game, its how well its handled in respect to time invested vs rewards given per kill and in game value based on those kills.

Gw 2 does a poor balance of this.

There was an old formula for one player rpgs on EXP and Gold gain.

It was based on how much damage you were taking per exp point gained or damage taken per gold piece.

If it was too high or it was too difficult it wasn’t worth your time.

I’m sure GW 2 has such a thing too but, now we only press one and zerg so no way to really know.

Based on your misunderstanding of the word grind, you clearly have never played a true Korean grinder MMO. You know the one where at level 21 completing all your quests gets you to 40% then you must kill mobs your level (which there is only 1 type of) until you get to level 22 at a rate of .001% per kill. That is grinding, this is taking the time required to get what was meant as the premier status symbol in the game. (Though that was ruined by the item being BoE)

I’ll tell you what then. I’ll get a job to buy a new computer (right now I can only go back to PSO 1 and RO and run those) and play as many MMOs I can find out there. All the free very grindy ones and I’ll come back and tell you how many I enjoyed and whatnot. I know for sure though I’ll enjoy them more than this hands down.

I like challenge and like to work hard for stuff. GW 2 is not giving anything for working hard nor has much of a challenge to replace it.

Only real reason I’m still in gw 2 is its all that I can barely run atm besides PSO 2 (need a new gaming controller for that atm) and the RP (which is barely doable as is).

RO has a lot of RP private servers still and I bet I can fit right in again.

RO has a system like that where you have to kill to gain exp and after 15 levels or so those monsters are obsolete, GW 1 has a system similar to that (+5 vs foe = no exp). almost every game has some form of that system. GW 2 has it like what? 5-20 levels above you you can’t even gain exp or do damage and they seek you out and one shot you?

RO has quests for certain level ranges, but they are well hidden in the lore/environment and you have to really explore and talk to everyone (there are no quest markers or any of that easy hold your hand kitten). Doing them was like huge amounts of exp and level ups and some were required to open a dungeon or explorable area. I never seen another game that had that much player involvement and investment in the story or gameplay.

Nowadays you have dungeon warpers (on some servers) and stuff that give you free access or a small in game fee.

I think what the real problem is no one wants to work for anything at all in any game these days.

Actual grinders start you on the treadmill the moment you leave character creation. GW2’s grind begins well after you’ve capped and it’s only required if you’re chasing optional stuff. Although some might dispute that with ascended gear being BiS, but I don’t feel left behind staying outfitted in full exotics, which don’t require grinding to attain.

I have played “grindy games.” GW2 is not.

There is a reason they used to call a lot of MMOs “Korean Grinders.” They came from Korea (mostly) and they made you grind for everything.

The only thing you grind for in GW2 is aesthetics. The only exception is Ascended Gear, which in my opinion is optional except for specialized situations.

So, do what you like, and if going for Twilight is what you want, be prepared to grind for it.

Cheers!

There’s probably also an element of tunnel vision at play when you’re gunning for even just level 80, rather than just taking it canny and enjoying the events, hearts and random little details that crop up, from the conversations between NPCs to the signage in Kryta’s taverns. It can happen all too easily if you allow the mindset that past MMO design has instilled upon us all to dominate your gameplay.

I never felt I was on the tredmill on any game but this. The games I played I got stuff just easily enough or was able to make do with the gear I had as games I played were more dependent on your own stats not a level requirement to equip.

Damage output was based on your own stats more than your gear. In PSO I always got by for the longest time on lower rares and the highest level basic weapons (which were yellow colored and went in the order of green->blue->purple->red->yellow).

Other games the economy was so rich and full of well priced stuff, you could just buy the gear for dirt cheep, even the best stuff was obtainable by buying it from a merchant that set up their character as an npc, and buying form their stall a powerful rare (maybe even the equivalent of a legend in that game) for a few million (which was easy to get in RO even on lowest rates)

Other games, there is a unstoppable cheater culture and if you were a legit player you can get stuff from them on the cheap.

@OP I’ll tell you about a game that I used to play called FlyFF, I played that for 3 years.

• During those 3 years I only played 1 class and I never reached the max level, and I played around 2~3 hours a day leveling 90% of the time. I reached level 112 Master.
• You only have a quest every 5 levels and each quest gives about 10% of a level, the rest of the 4 levels and 90% need to be by pure grind
• At higher levels quests the developers wasn’t even trying anymore, the NPC that gives the quests had the following text “Get me 100 <insert drop name> for me. Don’t ask me why.”, and that was not only 1 quest with that text.
  About weapons and armors:
• Every weapon and armor can get up to +10 and after +3 if you fail to upgrade you lose your item, and to get +10 it is 0.5% chance to get it, weapons after +10 you can make it “ultimate” and that is another 0.5% change, after that you can try to reach ultimate +10 and the chances get even lower up to 0.01% and all that if you don’t buy an item from the cash shop to prevent the item to break (no success guaranteed, only prevent breaking) you won’t get it, and the items to even try to upgrade is expensive.

@Belzebu

Ro had similiar structure but wasn’t that bad, even the gear upgrading if you became a ranked blacksmith or whitesmith, you can bypass the breakage/destroyed as being ranked means, you are better at what you doand have less chances at failure or none at all.

Normal upgrading was rather cheap though and you could just get like 50 copies of a weapon and maybe more than half of them will be +10 and half will be destroyed and you will still make a profit.

Yet the cut off for most gear was like +7 or 8 and rarer stuff was like +5 or 6 much more forgiving IMO.

But unlike you, I enjoy games like this as you never get anything for nothing, you are rewarded for hard work and everything has a opportunity cost.

I might just play Flyff or one of those in fact. I know I’ll be enjoying myself, but as I said on a previous post I need a new rig.

Belzebu.3912:

@OP I’ll tell you about a game that I used to play called FlyFF, I played that for 3 years.

• During those 3 years I only played 1 class and I never reached the max level, and I played around 2~3 hours a day leveling 90% of the time. I reached level 112 Master.
• You only have a quest every 5 levels and each quest gives about 10% of a level, the rest of the 4 levels and 90% need to be by pure grind
• At higher levels quests the developers wasn’t even trying anymore, the NPC that gives the quests had the following text “Get me 100 <insert drop name> for me. Don’t ask me why.”, and that was not only 1 quest with that text.
  About weapons and armors:
• Every weapon and armor can get up to +10 and after +3 if you fail to upgrade you lose your item, and to get +10 it is 0.5% chance to get it, weapons after +10 you can make it “ultimate” and that is another 0.5% change, after that you can try to reach ultimate +10 and the chances get even lower up to 0.01% and all that if you don’t buy an item from the cash shop to prevent the item to break (no success guaranteed, only prevent breaking) you won’t get it, and the items to even try to upgrade is expensive.

Yep and yep.
Finally made it to level 60 to take on my second job, Jester. Accidentally died and deleveled. I uninstalled and moved on.
It was so sad. I was getting like 0.02 experience per kill. I use to calculated how long i’d have till i leveled up. Getting pleveled helped sometimes.

My gear never went passed +3 cause I was NOT paying for those stupid scrolls. Fun game Was my first MMORPG…

GW2 is not the grindiest game ever.

But for a game, that has been heavily advertised as being not gindy, as noone at ANet likes grinding because it is not fun, it is for sure the grindiest non-grindy game on this planet.

GW2 is a grindfest for everything nowadays, be it BiS items, AP for metas, event items etc. The fact, that it is not as grindy as some asian grinders out there is not really making this fact any better.

Conclusion: For a non-grindy game, this game is grindy as kitten.

Yet in games like that you do not kill one by one you gather a whole map and mass genocide. You kite them all and then BOOM kill all at once! The time it took you to level up I did it in in a huge fraction of the time.

In RO we coined the term Mob training! And rules were set to make it suspension or banable offense to kill steal it or disrupt it as it can be a griefable offence and make you and the guy kiting and training the massive blob of enemies die horribly.

Its something I wish we could do in GW 2, it would make farming for loot easier, but this game’s structure doesn’t allow for 50-60 mobs following you and you only.

In my opinion, GW2 is probably one of the most least grindy game I’ve been playing. Sure, GW2 has repetitive moments, however you have options on how to go about doing things. GW2 isn’t really a super grindy game, as you can get things relatively fast. Ascended gear is fairly easy to get and legendaries are completely all visuals and not needed.

When comparing GW2 to real grindy games, GW2 is blown out of the water. For example, it only takes like a month to reach end-game stuff in GW2, however in older games like Runescape after a year you’d only reach halfway to end-game things. I’d even say some fps like CoD and BF4 are more grindy due to their rank up systems and how much more repetitive it is.

Precursors are an issue since there’s no way to get them but luck, but Anet acknowledges this and is supposedly working on a fix (no ETA). That said GW2 is still way less grindy than a lot of competitors.

This game has become one giant gold sink. What’s the point of playing if I can buy everything I want with my credit card? It just seems like a huge grind right now.

I’d like to see more rewards that are tied to actual gameplay rather than the Gem Store, but maybe that’s just me.

Flytrap.8075:

This game has become one giant gold sink. What’s the point of playing if I can buy everything I want with my credit card?

The point is, most people usually tend to have more sense than money.

GW2 is grindy only if you let it be a grind.
I have probably over 2000 hours invested in it and out of those maybe 20h were spent grinding stuff (mostly Deadeye during Queen’s Jubilee).

For whoever thinks the game is a grind I have two advices:
1) Ascended armor is not worth it at all, stats wise.
2) If legendaries are the only thing that attracts you to GW2, you might as well uninstall right away and save yourself a ton of regret when you finally make your legendary, figure out that you’ve spent incredible amount of time to get a shiny skin and promptly ragequit.
I’ve seen it happen a ton of times already, don’t be another victim of zoning in on a prize that will evaporate as soon as you get it.

Flytrap.8075:

This game has become one giant gold sink. What’s the point of playing if I can buy everything I want with my credit card? It just seems like a huge grind right now.

I’d like to see more rewards that are tied to actual gameplay rather than the Gem Store, but maybe that’s just me.

And when stuff isn’t available to people like you at the swipe of a credit card, you whine that this game is such a grind and that you have to spend HOURS trying to get legendaries…

Sorry Op but you have never played a game where the grind was “mandatory”.
Sure GW2 has some parts that are grindy but none of them are truly mandatory.
You don’t have to grind for legendary.
You don’t have to grind for ascended (except if you need high AR for fractals).
You can still play the content with exotics believe me or not.

Go back 15 years and then talk about grind.

You can get to endgame in GW2 in a matter of hours.

You can pull out a credit card and buy exotic gear and even legendaries.

“Grinds” = map complete, dragonite, achievements (all of which are not necessary to play the game.)

This game does not even come close to grindy compared to many mmo’s out there which force the grind for stuff actually needed! Here it is cosmetic only and yes it is grindy, but no more than GW1 for titles. That was more mind numbing I found.

That isn’t to say improvements aren’t needed though so that real rewards are more on the table as opposed to luck rewards

Peeachxd.3786:

So I have slowly been creating Twilight over the past wee while and now looking at the 1k gold pile that I need to raise to afford Dusk at its current Trade Post price im starting to feel like Gw2 is a grind, I know that the developers said that they wanted to make the game feel like it wasnt a grind but I think some of the recent changes and perhaps lack of change has made it into one of the most grindy games I have ever played. does anybody else think that the whole Idea of needing a precurser or puting so much focus on gold has made Gw2 into a grind? because all I seem to be doing when I play is earning gold by grinding different dungeon paths or doing pvp which is kind of a grind aswell to level… :L perhaps ii play wrong.

do not waste time with a legendary right now. wait until precursor hunts are implemented and see what other changes to obtaining a legendary are put in as well.

Astral Projections.7320:

Guild Wars 1 has a grind to get max titles and Guild Wars 2 has a grind to get the end vanity items. It’s set up as the core of both games. They want you to earn them. Granted they didn’t do a very good job with the Legendaries in this game, but the no grind only referred to leveling not going after one of the end game goals.

ascended gear and ascended level swappable stats on legendaries are hardly mere “vanity” things.

Swagger.1459:

Astral Projections.7320:

Guild Wars 1 has a grind to get max titles and Guild Wars 2 has a grind to get the end vanity items. It’s set up as the core of both games. They want you to earn them. Granted they didn’t do a very good job with the Legendaries in this game, but the no grind only referred to leveling not going after one of the end game goals.

ascended gear and ascended level swappable stats on legendaries are hardly mere “vanity” things.

And yet none of which are vital to the effective completion of much of the content in GW2, which can be achieved with exotics easily enough.

Threads like this always crack me up. If you think this game is grindy, you’d tear your hair out, throw your computer out the window, and then yourself, if you were playing some of the other mmos I have played…..lol.

Swagger.1459:

ascended gear and ascended level swappable stats on legendaries are hardly mere “vanity” things.

I’d say he misused the word “vanity”, but they are not actually needed to play 98% of the game content. In TRUE GRINDY games, you have no hope of advancing to ANY higher level content without the grind items (and then you have to start all over to reach the NEXT tier…