Guild Wars 2

I have to agree with you, Pointless. If ascended was like 30% better in stats than exotic, then maybe the extra work(and it is work, not fun, imo)….then just maybe the extra effort might be worth it. As it is, it’s a ton of extra work for basically a show off skin with minimal stat advantage. I won’t ever be intentionally going after it…..if an ascended mat drops here or there that I can use in my casual playtime, then I might go ahead and craft an ascended item……but it certainly is nowhere of a game breaker if I never have ascended or legendary…..my exotic gear works just fine.

The Pointless.3869:

Sorry but just no. He doesn’t have to “prove” anything. The gear is out there, it gives better stats, period. Unless you want to debate that “fact,” prove to my satisfaction that stats don’t matter.

That’s not the point. The point is this: is the difference between Ascended and Exotic really worth the effort? Does the end justify the means? Nobody’s denying that Ascended offers better stats, but are the stats even that much of an improvement to strive for?

Think of it like car selection in a racer. One of those cars will be the fastest, and can outrun everything else on a straightforward sprint, but all that speed isn’t much good on a winding loop. In much a similar way, that edge you’ve got from your Ascended armour might not make a jot of difference when every factor comes into play.

If it required zero effort either way, which one would you pick? If you would pick the higher stats, then what you are saying is that the amount of effort to obtain (i.e. grind) is a gating factor.

Your analogy is a bad one, because there is no balancing performance advantage to taking Exotics over Ascended. Try two cars with absolutely equivalent handling, on the same track conditions, except one has 10% more horsepower, for $50k more cost. Is it worth it? Maybe… maybe not. It depends on if you plan on winning the race or not.

It depends on whether you can corner for squat. It depends on what you’re up against. It depends on the actions of other racers. All that extra horsepower’s no good if you’re stuck behind a load of cars blocking you, or your opponents can outmanoeuvre you or otherwise outsmart you.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I’m not going to bother arguing with people who claim that a 10-15% damage increase is “irrelevant”.

You used the term “irrelevant”, not us. We said it’s not needed to play the game successfuly. The WvW example given is EXACTLY our point.

Ascended weapons are a valid end-game pursuit and provide a decent DPS gain for the effort involved in obtaining them (barely). Ascended Armor…not so much.

The idea that obtaining Ascended gear is FORCED on players by Anet (thus MAKING the game ‘grindy’), is beyond laughable. They made the tier “available” to those that want long term goals and have no way FORCED everyone to “grind” for BiS gear to advance further in the game.

Every time one of threads surfaces it’s the same story, the word ‘grind’ is thrown around without any time taken to define what that means.

The first step in qualifying if something meets the definition of ‘grindy’ is to define your terms. So step 1: define your terms.

This is how I’d define ‘grind’ in an mmo context:

Grind: Having limited options of attaining something that is required in order to participate in a particular part of the game. The player is thus forced to do a specific repetitive task in order to have access to other parts of the game.

Grind does not simply mean anything with a cost in either time or gold.

So let’s look at what could fall into the ‘grind’ category in GW2. Anything purchasable by in-game gold/gems can be ruled out since gold can be obtained through literally any activity in the game, including exchanging real life cash for gold/gems.

So we are left with only one thing that could potentially fall under the definition of ‘grind’; ascended gear, which can’t be 100% obtained through in-game currency. Some required components for crafting ascended gear cannot be traded so can’t simply be bought using gold. These ascended materials are however available in every game type, from jumping puzzle chests to WvW, spvp, dungeons etc. So definitely does not meet the definition of ‘limited’.

There is no content in the game that requires ascended gear. The one exception to this is high level fractals, due to AR infusions only available in ascended armor. High level fractals requiring ascended armor is the closest thing to the definition of ‘grind’ so far, since it is practically a requirement to have for the agony resistance alone.

The ascended armor requirement for playing higher level fractals does not meet the other part of the definition of ‘grind’ however since the methods of obtaining the gear is virtually unlimited, and are often gathered from simply doing the actual lower level fractals.

So in answer to the OPs original question if GW2 is the most ‘grindy’ game ever, the answer by this definition is no. In my experience with mmos it’s actually the least ‘grindy’ game I’ve ever played.

The Pointless.3869:

It depends on whether you can corner for squat. It depends on what you’re up against. It depends on the actions of other racers. All that extra horsepower’s no good if you’re stuck behind a load of cars blocking you, or your opponents can outmanoeuvre you or otherwise outsmart you.

Exactly, or better yet let’s talk about player skill, or in this case driver skill. One guy with a 500HP car and another with 550HP. The guy with 500HP is a far superior driver, can shift absolutely perfectly. The guy with 550HP is a sloppy driver, shifts like a grandma. The guy with 500HP will still win the race. So to him, it would not be necessary to win the race by having 10% extra HP. And to keep with the analogy, PvE in GW2 would be akin to a race where everyone wins, you just have to make it across the finish line and all are rewarded the same trophy. So in the end it that HP difference means nothing. Ok you finished the race in 50secs, you get a gold trophy, next guy finishes the race in 3min 45sesc, he gets a gold trophy. Means nothing.

What we’re really talking about can never be compared anyway. Two players fighting with identical gear will always come down to player skill. That is the only argument you could make anyway for needing Ascended gear. And the chances of going up against a player with your exact level of playing skill in a 1v1 where nobody else gets involved is pretty slim, bordering impossible. Making Ascended gear completely unnecessary for 99% of the game (again, high level FoTM it is completely necessary for AR).

Wasbunny.6531:

Every time one of threads surfaces it’s the same story, the word ‘grind’ is thrown around without any time taken to define what that means.

The first step in qualifying if something meets the definition of ‘grindy’ is to define your terms. So step 1: define your terms.

This is how I’d define ‘grind’ in an mmo context:

Grind: Having limited options of attaining something that is required in order to participate in a particular part of the game. The player is thus forced to do a specific repetitive task in order to have access to other parts of the game.

Grind does not simply mean anything with a cost in either time or gold.

So let’s look at what could fall into the ‘grind’ category in GW2. Anything purchasable by in-game gold/gems can be ruled out since gold can be obtained through literally any activity in the game, including exchanging real life cash for gold/gems.

So we are left with only one thing that could potentially fall under the definition of ‘grind’; ascended gear, which can’t be 100% obtained through in-game currency. Some required components for crafting ascended gear cannot be traded so can’t simply be bought using gold. These ascended materials are however available in every game type, from jumping puzzle chests to WvW, spvp, dungeons etc. So definitely does not meet the definition of ‘limited’.

There is no content in the game that requires ascended gear. The one exception to this is high level fractals, due to AR infusions only available in ascended armor. High level fractals requiring ascended armor is the closest thing to the definition of ‘grind’ so far, since it is practically a requirement to have for the agony resistance alone.

The ascended armor requirement for playing higher level fractals does not meet the other part of the definition of ‘grind’ however since the methods of obtaining the gear is virtually unlimited, and are often gathered from simply doing the actual lower level fractals.

So in answer to the OPs original question if GW2 is the most ‘grindy’ game ever, the answer by definition is no. In my experience with mmos it’s actually the least ‘grindy’ game I’ve ever played.

This is an excellent post. It does a wonderful job of explaining your subjective take on grind. I might suggest adding the word, “my,” to the following sentence,

“So in answer to the OPs original question if GW2 is the most ‘grindy’ game ever, the answer by my definition is no.”

Even by your definition though some of what you have defined as not being grind can still be described as grind. For example:

You claim that crafting ascended gear is not grind because the means of gaining the materials is not limited to a single activity. But, actually producing the gear requires participation in a single activity, crafting.

As to, “Having limited options of attaining something that is required in order to participate in a particular part of the game,” the part of the game that I enjoy, in which I desire to participate, is playing a variety of content while my character is equipped with BiS gear. In order to participate in this particular part of the game, one that ANet designed as integral to the game by implementing gear based performance, it is required that I attain ascended gear. There are limited options to do so.

By your own definition GW2 can be/is grindy.

Ashen.2907:

~snip~
You claim that crafting ascended gear is not grind because the means of gaining the materials is not limited to a single activity. But, actually producing the gear requires participation in a single activity, crafting.
~snip~

This is actually a good point. Ascended armor is exclusively (excluding random drops) obtained by crafting. I suppose the actual process of getting crafting to 500 fits the first part of this definition since it’s a singular limiting factor, with no other options.

It is not required however to have ascended gear in order to experience other game modes beyond high level fractals, as I detailed in my post. It is a cost in time and/or gold, not a requirement. The crafting materials being obtainable through nearly every way imaginable also makes this not fall under the definition of ‘grind’.

Ashen.2907:

~snip~
As to, “Having limited options of attaining something that is required in order to participate in a particular part of the game,” the part of the game that I enjoy, in which I desire to participate, is playing a variety of content while my character is equipped with BiS gear. In order to participate in this particular part of the game, one that ANet designed as integral to the game by implementing gear based performance, it is required that I attain ascended gear. There are limited options to do so.
~snip~

This is where the logic falls apart.

Everything in this or any other game is acquired through time, currency or both. This is the cost of getting something you want in the game.

If you want to play a variety of game modes in ascended gear (as I do actually) there is a cost in time & gold to do so. This is a self imposed goal as is anything else in the game. It is not required, but it is also not free. There is a huge amount of options for obtaining the materials necessary to get crafting to 500 & crafting the gear. Literally doing the variety of content you enjoy will get you all you need.

Example: If I enjoy doing a variety of content while having my character only using Abyss dye there is a cost in time/gold to get Abyss. I wouldn’t call the process of scraping up enough gold an artificially imposed grind of any sort. It’s a cost that I agree to pay, and there are countless ways to get to my goal. It is also not required that I have Abyss dye to play any part of the game.

Of course feel free to offer any other definition of ‘grind’, it just needs to be the starting point in any discussion; to define the terms.

Wasbunny.6531:

Every time one of threads surfaces it’s the same story, the word ‘grind’ is thrown around without any time taken to define what that means.

The first step in qualifying if something meets the definition of ‘grindy’ is to define your terms. So step 1: define your terms.

This is how I’d define ‘grind’ in an mmo context:

Grind: Having limited options of attaining something that is required in order to participate in a particular part of the game. The player is thus forced to do a specific repetitive task in order to have access to other parts of the game.

Grind does not simply mean anything with a cost in either time or gold.

So let’s look at what could fall into the ‘grind’ category in GW2. Anything purchasable by in-game gold/gems can be ruled out since gold can be obtained through literally any activity in the game, including exchanging real life cash for gold/gems.

So we are left with only one thing that could potentially fall under the definition of ‘grind’; ascended gear, which can’t be 100% obtained through in-game currency. Some required components for crafting ascended gear cannot be traded so can’t simply be bought using gold. These ascended materials are however available in every game type, from jumping puzzle chests to WvW, spvp, dungeons etc. So definitely does not meet the definition of ‘limited’.

There is no content in the game that requires ascended gear. The one exception to this is high level fractals, due to AR infusions only available in ascended armor. High level fractals requiring ascended armor is the closest thing to the definition of ‘grind’ so far, since it is practically a requirement to have for the agony resistance alone.

The ascended armor requirement for playing higher level fractals does not meet the other part of the definition of ‘grind’ however since the methods of obtaining the gear is virtually unlimited, and are often gathered from simply doing the actual lower level fractals.

So in answer to the OPs original question if GW2 is the most ‘grindy’ game ever, the answer by this definition is no. In my experience with mmos it’s actually the least ‘grindy’ game I’ve ever played.

“Anything purchasable by in-game gold/gems can be ruled out since gold can be obtained through literally any activity in the game, including exchanging real life cash for gold/gems. “

Lol that is EXACTLY the part that makes this game so much of a grind. It’s grind for gold, grind for gold and more grind for gold to get all your items.

But then again, you obviously have a very different definition of grind then I do. Doing specific content multiple times to get an item is farming, not grinding.

Having content locked behind something they usually call tier grind or type of locked content (locked behind stats or something else). Not just ‘grind’. Then again pretty much every mmo has that including GW2. You can’t do Arah with a lvl 1 character. That is less in Gw2 then in most games but it’s also in GW2.

Devata.6589:

“Anything purchasable by in-game gold/gems can be ruled out since gold can be obtained through literally any activity in the game, including exchanging real life cash for gold/gems. “

Lol that is EXACTLY the part that makes this game so much of a grind. It’s grind for gold, grind for gold and more grind for gold to get all your items.

But then again, you obviously have a very different definition of grind then I do. Doing specific content multiple times to get an item is farming, not grinding.

Having contact lock behind something they usually call tier grind or or type of locked content (locked behind stats or something else). Not just ‘grind’. Then again pretty much every mmo has that including GW2. You can’t do Arah with a lvl 1 character. That is less in Gw2 then in most games but it’s also in GW2.

Not sure how much sense this makes, at least about gold=grind. I guess if the definition of ‘grind’ is: Anything with a cost in either currency, time or both.

Of course then every game from Skyrim to GW2 would be considered ‘grindy’ so an answer to the OP’s original question would be impossible.

Here’s a real life (in-game) example of what I mean. True story, just happened.

I want to buy some new skins to unlock so I need some gold. I just found a recipe for food that sells pretty well on the TP but requires a couple ingredients that I don’t have enough of. I see I can get these from various mobs and harvesting nodes in at least 4 maps. So I set off on my little self imposed adventure to collect what I need, whistling while I do. The moment I get bored (whistling stops) I immediately move on to something else that I enjoy in the game (whistling resumes).

I just find it impossible to label my little self imposed goal that took me on a little adventure through Tyria as a dreaded ‘grind’. I enjoyed it, it was fun and totally of my making.

In my mind I haven’t ‘grinded’ once in this game and have all 8 80’s in all exotics, two of which have full ascended everything. If playing the game just feels like an agonizing ‘grind’ to get (insert whatever) then I have to say this game might not be a good fit overall.

Wasbunny.6531:

Devata.6589:

“Anything purchasable by in-game gold/gems can be ruled out since gold can be obtained through literally any activity in the game, including exchanging real life cash for gold/gems. “

Lol that is EXACTLY the part that makes this game so much of a grind. It’s grind for gold, grind for gold and more grind for gold to get all your items.

But then again, you obviously have a very different definition of grind then I do. Doing specific content multiple times to get an item is farming, not grinding.

Having contact lock behind something they usually call tier grind or or type of locked content (locked behind stats or something else). Not just ‘grind’. Then again pretty much every mmo has that including GW2. You can’t do Arah with a lvl 1 character. That is less in Gw2 then in most games but it’s also in GW2.

Not sure how much sense this makes, at least about gold=grind. I guess if the definition of ‘grind’ is: Anything with a cost in either currency, time or both.

Of course then every game from Skyrim to GW2 would be considered ‘grindy’ so an answer to the OP’s original question would be impossible.

Here’s a real life (in-game) example of what I mean. True story, just happened.

I want to buy some new skins to unlock so I need some gold. I just found a recipe for food that sells pretty well on the TP but requires a couple ingredients that I don’t have enough of. I see I can get these from various mobs and harvesting nodes in at least 4 maps. So I set off on my little self imposed adventure to collect what I need, whistling while I do. The moment I get bored (whistling stops) I immediately move on to something else that I enjoy in the game (whistling resumes).

I just find it impossible to label my little self imposed goal that took me on a little adventure through Tyria as a dreaded ‘grind’. I enjoyed it, it was fun and totally of my making.

In my mind I haven’t ‘grinded’ once in this game and have all 8 80’s in all exotics, two of which have full ascended everything. If playing the game just feels like an agonizing ‘grind’ to get (insert whatever) then I have to say this game might not be a good fit overall.

Let me give you my example then.
Lets say I want to collect mini. Something I did in most other games. I not only like the mini’s but also the hunt for them. They usually send me all over the world doing specific content for every mini.

Now GW2. Well 99% you can only buy so your way to get the first mini s grinding gold. Getting the second one? Just grind some gold. 3th one? Grind some gold.

Your example would work for a few cheap mini’s. In most games those exist, usually vendors have them. So while you play (for those hard to get mini’s) you earn some gold and buy the cheap ones at a vendor. Here is almost all grinding gold, the kittenes and the easy ones. Expensive mini’s cost a lot of gold, not something you just earn easily you really need to grind for it. Of course there is more you want, not only that one expensive mini, there are more mini;s. Maybe you also want a legendary weapon, also that is mainly grinding gold. You might also dyes, more gold, or some cool skin. So just saving up some money is not the solution here. And if it’s not a gold grind then it’s completing achievements against the time in temporary content.

Another problem is that is also devaluations the item from a game-play viewpoint. An mini that drops from a specific place is less likely to drop for somebody who was not specially working towards it. (it can help, but is much less likely). So the TP will be less flooded with them and so having them is much more of a reward for doing that specific dungeon / collecting that specific item. It also adds an extra rush to that content (will it drop). Just doing it for money is boring to me. Doing what I likes besides collecting those things.. Well JP’s but they don’t earn me the money I would need to buy those special mini’s.

I use the mini example but you can replace that with many other items.

-

The whole ‘is not required’ is an invalid argument. The whole game is optional so nothing is ’ required’. One might be more interested in stats another in dyes.. and there are more then 1 dye. Your example is about one item. Yes getting that one item is not a problem, the problem is that almost everything cost gold. Getting many of them requires the gold grind. Besides, is it really so strange that I want to play directly for an item in stead of make money to buy it. It’s supposed to be a game not a job. I dropped all my goals for getting those collections and achievements and skins and (well everything that usually drives me in these games) because it felled to much like a job.

Wasbunny.6531:

This is actually a good point. Ascended armor is exclusively (excluding random drops) obtained by crafting. I suppose the actual process of getting crafting to 500 fits the first part of this definition since it’s a singular limiting factor, with no other options.

It is not required however to have ascended gear in order to experience other game modes beyond high level fractals, as I detailed in my post. It is a cost in time and/or gold, not a requirement.

There is no real difference between, “a cost in time and/or gold,” and, “a requirement.” A cost is a requirement that must be met in order to attain something. If something costs $10 then you are required to pay $10 in order to get it.

Also keep in mind that it may in fact be a requirement to have ascended gear in order to experience other game modes beyond high level fractals. Perhaps not for you, but for others it may very well be the case.

Wasbunny.6531:

This is where the logic falls apart.

Everything in this or any other game is acquired through time, currency or both. This is the cost of getting something you want in the game.

It appears that you are arguing that nothing can be considered grind because things that people consider grind are merely the cost of getting what they want in a game. The grindiest element of the grindiest game ever created would not be considered grind because it is just the cost in time to acquire what the player desires.

Wasbunny.6531:

If you want to play a variety of game modes in ascended gear (as I do actually) there is a cost in time & gold to do so. This is a self imposed goal as is anything else in the game. It is not required, but it is also not free. There is a huge amount of options for obtaining the materials necessary to get crafting to 500 & crafting the gear. Literally doing the variety of content you enjoy will get you all you need.

Crafting is a grind. There is absolutely nothing enjoyable involved. It is a detestable chore.

Wasbunny.6531:

Example: If I enjoy doing a variety of content while having my character only using Abyss dye there is a cost in time/gold to get Abyss. I wouldn’t call the process of scraping up enough gold an artificially imposed grind of any sort. It’s a cost that I agree to pay, and there are countless ways to get to my goal. It is also not required that I have Abyss dye to play any part of the game.

Perhaps your example is not a requirement. Then again your example was not advertised as a selling point of the game as was the case for my example.

Wasbunny.6531:

Of course feel free to offer any other definition of ‘grind’, it just needs to be the starting point in any discussion; to define the terms.

I am comfortable continuing to use your definition. I do not know that GW2 is the most grindy game, etc, but your definition shows (IMO) that it has grindy elements.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I’m not going to bother arguing with people who claim that a 10-15% damage increase is “irrelevant”.

You used the term “irrelevant”, not us. We said it’s not needed to play the game successfuly.

Yes, it is not needed to play the game succesfully – but it sure helps a lot.
(also, TP barons are a proof that you don’t need any gear at all, or even any playing skill, to be “succesful”).

Ashen.2907:

Crafting is a grind. There is absolutely nothing enjoyable involved. It is a detestable chore.

I am not sure how anyone could call crafting a grind. At least leveling one from 0-400. If you have the gold(around 25g), you can go from 0-400 in around an hour. http://www.gw2crafts.net

And if you don’t have the gold, you can still level it at your convenience, using the crafting leveling guides as to what you need to pick up or how much gold you’ll need for a specific part. I suppose if you weren’t using any sort of guide, the crafting could get frustrating as you would have to keep looking at items, how to make them, what was required, etc…….but that is what the guides are for online…..to help make it all easier.

Now if you’re crafting ascended items, yea, I will agree…it becomes a bit of a grind just because of the 1 day timer the game imposes on crafting that stuff, and how costly it is to get a crafter to 500. 400-500 is extremely expensive and can take awhile if you need to farm the stuff needed.

Again, though, crafting in this game is a lot easier than a lot of the older mmorpgs. I remember one I played where you would sit around for hours watching tv mashing a button, waiting for your crafter to make one item and get 1 point……and this went on for weeks and weeks before you got a master level crafter. It was absolutely excruciatingly boring……I would have rather watched grass grow.

As others have said in this thread……the grindy elements of this game are completely optional and not required, unless you’re one of those players that just must have all the bells and whistles……but that is the player’s choice, and that choice carries consequences, e.g. grinding/farming, with it.

I could also see someone calling this game a grind if all they did to level was to kill npcs all day long. (When there are so many different ways to level/gain xp in this game)

Teon.5168:

Ashen.2907:

Crafting is a grind. There is absolutely nothing enjoyable involved. It is a detestable chore.

I am not sure how anyone could call crafting a grind. At least leveling one from 0-400. If you have the gold(around 25g), you can go from 0-400 in around an hour. http://www.gw2crafts.net

And if you don’t have the gold, you can still level it at your convenience, using the crafting leveling guides as to what you need to pick up or how much gold you’ll need for a specific part. I suppose if you weren’t using any sort of guide, the crafting could get frustrating as you would have to keep looking at items, how to make them, what was required, etc…….but that is what the guides are for online…..to help make it all easier.

Now if you’re crafting ascended items, yea, I will agree…it becomes a bit of a grind just because of the 1 day timer the game imposes on crafting that stuff, and how costly it is to get a crafter to 500. 400-500 is extremely expensive and can take awhile if you need to farm the stuff needed.

Again, though, crafting in this game is a lot easier than a lot of the older mmorpgs. I remember one I played where you would sit around for hours watching tv mashing a button, waiting for your crafter to make one item and get 1 point……and this went on for weeks and weeks before you got a master level crafter. It was absolutely excruciatingly boring……I would have rather watched grass grow.

As others have said in this thread……the grindy elements of this game are completely optional and not required, unless you’re one of those players that just must have all the bells and whistles……but that is the player’s choice, and that choice carries consequences, e.g. grinding/farming, with it.

I could also see someone calling this game a grind if all they did to level was to kill npcs all day long. (When there are so many different ways to level/gain xp in this game)

Crafting is a grind, for me, because it is a repetitious detestable chore behind which desirable elements are gated. I completely understand that others feel differently about it but keep in mind that others would not consider leveling through combat (killing NPCs) to be grindy.

In general I dont expect that anyone considers a task that they enjoy to be a grind unless the amount of that task required makes it no longer enjoyable.

Ashen.2907:

Crafting is a grind, for me, because it is a repetitious detestable chore behind which desirable elements are gated. I completely understand that others feel differently about it but keep in mind that others would not consider leveling through combat (killing NPCs) to be grindy.

In general I dont expect that anyone considers a task that they enjoy to be a grind unless the amount of that task required makes it no longer enjoyable.

Yea, I suppose the term "grind’ can be quite subjective. Imo, I have not seen anything in this game, so far, that comes anywhere close to the comparative ‘grind’ that I have seen/experienced in other mmos.

I didn’t ‘enjoy’ crafting from 0-400…..but it only took me around an hour to do, and I got around 7 levels doing it…..so the hour for 7 levels on my character was more than worth it, to me.

O.O Interesting debates.

In term of level grinding, gw2 is the least among all the games I played. There are games where you can spend entire day grinding the mobs and barely level up, some called these hardcore games.

In term of item grinding, mixed opinions for gw2. Exotic is relatively easy to get but the time taken to obtain ascended and considering the amount of stat increased, obtaining higher gear is more grindy than other MMOs which involve grind to level up.

In term of world boss event such as karka, sunless and triple trouble. The rewards from these bosses and the number of people required to defeat these bosses, in comparison to those grindy MMOs, the rewards is totally unjustifiable.

Then again, this game does not have gears upgrades (in stat), so making ascended difficult to get is somewhat reasonable because after obtaining ascended, you already reach the end of line.

I think we should all agree that all games have a grind. Be it grinding for crafting, money, leveling, killing X monsters, what have you. Skyrim? A grind. Final Fantasy games? A grind. Infamous/Dark Souls/GTA/etc? A grind. Civilization/any competitive RTS? A grind. Any fighting game? A grind. Racing games? A grind. Any FPS? A grind. They all have grinds. That’s how they keep you playing a game for longer than one hour.

The only difference is personal tolerance to grinding. Some folks are sensitive to it, some folks are not. It’s clear by the sheer polarization on these forums. How else can you explain one person saying GW2 is the most grindy game they’ve ever played and another saying it is the least grindy game they’ve ever played. Different strokes, people. Different strokes. No point in arguing.

Draknar.5748:

I think we should all agree that all games have a grind. Be it grinding for crafting, money, leveling, killing X monsters, what have you. Skyrim? A grind. Final Fantasy games? A grind. Infamous/Dark Souls/GTA/etc? A grind. Civilization/any competitive RTS? A grind. Any fighting game? A grind. Racing games? A grind. Any FPS? A grind. They all have grinds. That’s how they keep you playing a game for longer than one hour.

The only difference is personal tolerance to grinding. Some folks are sensitive to it, some folks are not. It’s clear by the sheer polarization on these forums. How else can you explain one person saying GW2 is the most grindy game they’ve ever played and another saying it is the least grindy game they’ve ever played. Different strokes, people. Different strokes. No point in arguing.

Ok lets say it different then.

This game is extremely grindy when it comes to grinding gold to get most items you might like to have. And if it’s not grinding gold then it’s grinding achievements against the time.

Obviously a lot of you guys/girls have never tried playing J-RPG’s.

Everygame is grindy. Grind sometimes must be there to make a healthy game. If it wasn’t grindy then everyone would have it.

I believe they said the game was a “play the way you want” now its “play how we want you to play, or don’t” all world events have timers now, show up press 1, get loot, then leave, Cursed shore has been all but destroyed, I really feel sorry for anyone new into this game wanting anything that requires T6 mats, pre events in cursed shore don’t spawn mobs, no loot, rewards are terrible,

Every update seems to make this game more and more and more grindy, all the while they make people believe that the updates are to help the economy, how does that work when they remove the loot people need then force the demand up lower the supply, I must have missed a memo,

Im just waiting for them to announce that you can buy T6 mats in the gem store, then this game will be truly pay to win, in 6 months the only ppl left will be the pay to win players, as everyone else will have moved on, seriously whoever is making these decisions at anet you need to take them and slap them around your board room to show that they are destroying your game.

GW2 is the most grindy game I currently play ( yes they’re maybe others out there, but I don’t play them “yet” )

Having played WoW for entirely too many years, I feel safe in saying that GW2 is one of the least grindy MMOs around. There’s grind if you want certain things, but they’re not necessary for anything at all. Legendaries are quite the long-term investment of grinding away (for most, I’d suspect), but if you don’t have one, what’re you actually out?

Some of them are pretty, but an ascended weapon’s considerably less of a grind and just as good in almost every possible way. Also pretty good looking. Scads of gorgeous exotics are handily available for a pittance of effort, and they’re not all that hard to get ahold of at all.

And even if kitting out in full exotics seems like more hassle than its worth, you’re still not a third-class citizen if you’re running around in greens karma vendor greens and whatever yellows you’ve haphazardly found and kept. If you’re good at your class, running around in ‘vendor trash’ gear’s not much worse than running around in full exotics.

Fractals are their own deal, I suppose. But if you’re doing fractals, you’ll get fractal-relevant stuff…to do fractals better with. /shrug

Personally, I love GW2’s emphasis on vanity rather than functionality to pieces. I think its exactly, 100% the right thing to motivate people with. Make the carrot functionality like they do in WoW and you wind up with your entire playerbase jealous and spiteful, hateful and selfish. You wind up with a vicious minority of the raid community acting like they’re the holy children and nobody really matters except them, the tryhards that scream at every imaginary benefit anyone but them is getting and increasingly apathetic peasant masses that have little to no hope of ever getting gear that’ll let them experience being powerful in the game.

All while being the unceasing target of mockery for being lazy, worthless, barely-human rejects on ‘welfare’ for doing the raidfinder stuff.

Trust me, if you’ve never been to the depths of a game in which gear was the measure of your worth, you’re fortunate. GW2 feels like I’ve died and gone to heaven, where the air smells like warm rootbeer and the towels are oh so fluffy in comparison.

i ll summarize some things

All mmos have a grinding factor to them so what sets them apart?

the methods of doing said grind/farm

why is it so diferent in gw2 then?

Timegating i’d say the current grind setup is disproportionate

what do i mean some might ask well simply put Anet or whoever has nerfed Every single source of farming and time gated it while leaving the same crafting requirement setup for legendaries and what not untouched wich goes for All Craftables pretty much now even world bosses run on a global timer

a for the legendaries are just a skin copy paste response : No, true they have a minimal stat gain over exotics However the Main benefit is the fact you can swap its stat to any stat set on the fly wich means you can use 1 weapon with every armor set plus the stat diference isnt that minimal against players that for some reason run in blues and greens at lvl 80

naiasonod.9265:

(feel bad about snipping such a great post, but for the sake of space…)
~snip~
Trust me, if you’ve never been to the depths of a game in which gear was the measure of your worth, you’re fortunate. GW2 feels like I’ve died and gone to heaven, where the air smells like warm rootbeer and the towels are oh so fluffy in comparison.

So very true.

Let’s imagine that Citadel of Flame is only accessible after a gear check, full ascended armor & weapons or no entry at all. Then lets imagine ascended gear is not craftable and only drops randomly in chests in Honor of the Waves.

Now imagine HotW requires full exotics or no entry and exotics are not craftable and are only found as random drops in chests in Twilight Arbor.

Further imagine that instead of everyone in the party getting an equal chance for the ascended or exotic drop they need in order to get into the next dungeon/raid only one person has a chance to get the item. If the party is lucky enough to have the gear show up in the chest they must ‘need/greed’ roll to see who gets it, with the possibility of someone stealing it outright.

Can you imagine the grind and negativity this kind of gear check would cause? Luckily no game is sadistic enough to put it’s players through that.

naiasonod.9265:

Trust me, if you’ve never been to the depths of a game in which gear was the measure of your worth, you’re fortunate. GW2 feels like I’ve died and gone to heaven, where the air smells like warm rootbeer and the towels are oh so fluffy in comparison.

I have been because I have played WoW. What you are saying is that WoW is more grindy because the stuff you need (well highest tier stats) is hard to get and in GW2 the stuff you need is easy to get (you don’t need ascended (so you say) and exotics are pretty easy to get).

The problem is that I never feel a need to get highest tier armor (also not in WoW) I do like to get the cosmetic stuff and this game is mainly based around cosmetics so it would be fair to look at that, not at stats. I want to play for that working towards it, and if you want that in GW2 it’s all a matter of grinding gold or if it comes to the LS grinding achievements against time.

In WoW if you wanted a mini (or other cosmetic) you worked toward it by playing the game, doing the dungeon or killing the mob that could drop it.

So having to repeat content to get items is the same in both games, the problem is that in GW2 for almost everything it’s grinding gold or another currency. Pretty much how real-life jobs work.

Wasbunny.6531:

naiasonod.9265:

(feel bad about snipping such a great post, but for the sake of space…)
~snip~
Trust me, if you’ve never been to the depths of a game in which gear was the measure of your worth, you’re fortunate. GW2 feels like I’ve died and gone to heaven, where the air smells like warm rootbeer and the towels are oh so fluffy in comparison.

So very true.

Let’s imagine that Citadel of Flame is only accessible after a gear check, full ascended armor & weapons or no entry at all. Then lets imagine ascended gear is not craftable and only drops randomly in chests in Honor of the Waves.

Now imagine HotW requires full exotics or no entry and exotics are not craftable and are only found as random drops in chests in Twilight Arbor.

Further imagine that instead of everyone in the party getting an equal chance for the ascended or exotic drop they need in order to get into the next dungeon/raid only one person has a chance to get the item. If the party is lucky enough to have the gear show up in the chest they must ‘need/greed’ roll to see who gets it, with the possibility of someone stealing it outright.

Can you imagine the grind and negativity this kind of gear check would cause? Luckily no game is sadistic enough to put it’s players through that.

As far as I know in WoW thats only true for the highest tier raid dungeons. I am never busy with maxing stats but never had a problem getting into dungeons.

In that way it’s not different in GW2 as highest levels fractals would require highest level gear. (ascended)

The biggest and most vital difference between GW2’s design philosophy and WoW’s design philosophy, when it comes to all things gear related, is that someone running around in full ascended gear with legendary weapon is not monumentally more powerful than someone wearing all 80 greens. More powerful, yes. Dealing 2-3x as much damage, having ~1.5-2x more hp and being considerably more able to do everything in the game? No.

In WoW, a fully geared heroic raider is literally like a god compared to someone that’s also max level but only geared in, oh…crafted equipment and quest rewards. There’s not even any viable comparison. Its like comparing the height difference between a midget and a giraffe – we don’t need to break out the measuring tape to get the accurate gist, in short.

Its pretty much a constant problem. Some love it because they think it keeps people motivated and struggling to be top. Others hate it, hate everyone better than them and despise everyone worse off than them. Some just try to have fun puttering around trying to not care too much about gear, but in WoW, if you don’t have at least decent gear, you’re basically crippled from even being able to participate meaningfully in assorted activities, and will absolutely not be welcome to even try in most.

Blizzard makes it very time consuming by dint of lots of RNG to gear up. Here in GW2, things are rather deterministic. Personally, I love that. I don’t mind putting effort in if I know it’ll eventually get me somewhere.

In WoW? I used to raid with a guy that went 13 weeks in the latest raid tier without getting a single piece of gear. We raided two nights a week that he got in on. He wound up having to do LFR in his spare time just to get any tier at all, but that’s the way the cookie crumbled. Our guild was kind’ve screwy when it came to gear.

That’s the other side of raiding – the social politics. The guild I just recently walked away from is led by a husband and wife duo that run the whole show like its their personal cult of personality. You will be bright and bubbly and you will say ‘Grats!’ in guild chat whenever someone gets an achievement and you will do what you’re told in that guild, or ‘there will be consequences’. They like not telling anyone what the consequences will be.

You find out on raid night. ‘Ok, everyone roll for the <Linked Item>. Stickboy wins it! Unfortunately, Stickboy’s been a jerk all week in guild and didn’t bother wishing Lindabear a happy birthday even though he was online when she announced it. Learn your lesson, Stickboy. The <Linked Item> goes to <Person that rolled second highest> instead.’

And people will frequently put up with things like this in WoW to heroic raid, at least where I was at.

Welcome to WoW, eh?

I’m glad to be here on GW2. I feel like I’ve escaped an asylum wherein all the inmates think they’re the only sane ones, and now I can just…be.

its nice out here. So…unbelievably nice.

naiasonod.9265:

The biggest and most vital difference between GW2’s design philosophy and WoW’s design philosophy, when it comes to all things gear related, is that someone running around in full ascended gear with legendary weapon is not monumentally more powerful than someone wearing all 80 greens. More powerful, yes. Dealing 2-3x as much damage, having ~1.5-2x more hp and being considerably more able to do everything in the game? No.

In WoW, a fully geared heroic raider is literally like a god compared to someone that’s also max level but only geared in, oh…crafted equipment and quest rewards. There’s not even any viable comparison. Its like comparing the height difference between a midget and a giraffe – we don’t need to break out the measuring tape to get the accurate gist, in short.

Its pretty much a constant problem. Some love it because they think it keeps people motivated and struggling to be top. Others hate it, hate everyone better than them and despise everyone worse off than them. Some just try to have fun puttering around trying to not care too much about gear, but in WoW, if you don’t have at least decent gear, you’re basically crippled from even being able to participate meaningfully in assorted activities, and will absolutely not be welcome to even try in most.

Blizzard makes it very time consuming by dint of lots of RNG to gear up. Here in GW2, things are rather deterministic. Personally, I love that. I don’t mind putting effort in if I know it’ll eventually get me somewhere.

In WoW? I used to raid with a guy that went 13 weeks in the latest raid tier without getting a single piece of gear. We raided two nights a week that he got in on. He wound up having to do LFR in his spare time just to get any tier at all, but that’s the way the cookie crumbled. Our guild was kind’ve screwy when it came to gear.

That’s the other side of raiding – the social politics. The guild I just recently walked away from is led by a husband and wife duo that run the whole show like its their personal cult of personality. You will be bright and bubbly and you will say ‘Grats!’ in guild chat whenever someone gets an achievement and you will do what you’re told in that guild, or ‘there will be consequences’. They like not telling anyone what the consequences will be.

You find out on raid night. ‘Ok, everyone roll for the <Linked Item>. Stickboy wins it! Unfortunately, Stickboy’s been a jerk all week in guild and didn’t bother wishing Lindabear a happy birthday even though he was online when she announced it. Learn your lesson, Stickboy. The <Linked Item> goes to <Person that rolled second highest> instead.’

And people will frequently put up with things like this in WoW to heroic raid, at least where I was at.

Welcome to WoW, eh?

I’m glad to be here on GW2. I feel like I’ve escaped an asylum wherein all the inmates think they’re the only sane ones, and now I can just…be.

its nice out here. So…unbelievably nice.

Interesting post about how WoW locks some content behind gear and how GW2 does that less but that does not mean there is no grind. For example for all the cosmetics, and the fact that something is optional does not mean it does not require grind. The whole game is about cosmetics.

I spend probably 4-5 hours a week raiding. 13 weeks without anything is an anomaly and I have a difficult time believing this claim.

Still, raiding is more entertaining that sitting at a crafting station in GW2 and by far, raiding is not the only end game activity.

NO. Guild Wars 2 is not a grind, legendaries are a grind. They are supposed to be. I don’t like grinding, so I don’t get a legendary. Easy as that.

Devata.6589:

Interesting post about how WoW locks some content behind gear and how GW2 does that less but that does not mean there is no grind. For example for all the cosmetics, and the fact that something is optional does not mean it does not require grind. The whole game is about cosmetics.

I think I see the misunderstanding here.

You are defining ‘grind’ as: Gold (in-game economy as a whole)

Therefore: ‘For example for all the cosmetics, and the fact that something is optional does not mean it does not require gold. The whole game is about cosmetics.’

Now this makes perfect sense and I would have to agree that an in-game economy exists and gold can be used to buy most things in game. The process of acquiring gold through every single activity in the game doesn’t seem to be the sticking point. Just that an economy exists where certain things have an associated cost.

It would be an interesting discussion thread to talk about the pros and cons of eliminating the in-game economy altogether, making everything free from the start.

These kinds of misunderstandings are why it’s so important to first define the definition of ‘grind’ before being able to debate about it.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I spend probably 4-5 hours a week raiding. 13 weeks without anything is an anomaly and I have a difficult time believing this claim.

Still, raiding is more entertaining that sitting at a crafting station in GW2 and by far, raiding is not the only end game activity.

Yeah yeah yeah. You don’t spend 4-5 hours a week getting to the raids though. I mean, I only spend a couple hours at work doing my job, but you’ll never get my job without six years of college at the minimum.

My job’s easy. I only spend maybe 3-4 hours a day doing it. Ignore everything that surrounds a cherry picked point and you can make it look pretty much however you care to present it though.

In this case, the grind in GW2 is almost purely elective. Cosmetic-oriented, not function gated.

Nobody has to drive themselves halfway insane in GW2 to get to have very nice gear, ya? I worked up crafting all by myself, and I crafted exotics all by myself. Consequently, I’ve got the second best gear in the game, and I didn’t have to join anyone’s cult to do it.

I’ll eventually have all the ascended armor, and I won’t have to drink anybody’s quirky Kool-Aid to get that here either. I’ll just need to go play the game.

Its a pretty huge difference from what it takes to have second best or BiS in WoW. If you raid, that should be kind’ve obvious.

In any event, I’m not saying GW2 has no grind. I’m saying that its a very different animal, and the grind here doesn’t at all seem to me to be nearly so forced if you want to function.

Also, 13 weeks of no gear for my buddy prior mentioned was due in part to our insane guild leaders, not strictly rng. When RNG isn’t being very nice and crazy guild leaders stick you at the bottom of the list of gear recipients because of reasons, going 13 weeks with nothing isn’t some sort of implausible. The poor guy had to get his locks t16 shoulders and trinket out of LFR because of it.

Maybe your experiences have been different. Honestly, I’d hope so.

Until you play a korean mmo, you don’t know what grind is.

Wasbunny.6531:

Devata.6589:

Interesting post about how WoW locks some content behind gear and how GW2 does that less but that does not mean there is no grind. For example for all the cosmetics, and the fact that something is optional does not mean it does not require grind. The whole game is about cosmetics.

I think I see the misunderstanding here.

You are defining ‘grind’ as: Gold (in-game economy as a whole)

Therefore: ‘For example for all the cosmetics, and the fact that something is optional does not mean it does not require gold. The whole game is about cosmetics.’

Now this makes perfect sense and I would have to agree that an in-game economy exists and gold can be used to buy most things in game. The process of acquiring gold through every single activity in the game doesn’t seem to be the sticking point. Just that an economy exists where certain things have an associated cost.

It would be an interesting discussion thread to talk about the pros and cons of eliminating the in-game economy altogether, making everything free from the start.

These kinds of misunderstandings are why it’s so important to first define the definition of ‘grind’ before being able to debate about it.

Well mainly that gold is the primary or only way to get things and so you need to grind gold for all those things. Having gold / an economy as an extra is ok but not being able to work directly for many items but having to grind gold to buy them.. thats what I am talking about.

My famous mini example again. With the exception of a few mini most simply require you to grind gold and then buy them with gold. There is no option for you to get them from specific content ingame. This seems to be related to them wanting to sell gems but that does not make it any better. For a B2P game maybe even worse.

Same for a legendary.. what is the best way to get it? Grind gold and then buy what you need. It;s not working in game towards the items you need directly by doing specific content (farming, doing events and so on).

naiasonod.9265:

Yeah yeah yeah. You don’t spend 4-5 hours a week getting to the raids though.

In this case, the grind in GW2 is almost purely elective. Cosmetic-oriented, not function gated.

Nobody has to drive themselves halfway insane in GW2 to get to have very nice gear,

Isnt what you do to get to the raiding in WoW essentially playing the game? Leveling up ? I only played WoW to about 62 (took about a month as I recall) and never got into raiding, so I am not sure.

In order to get the nice gear to enjoy playing GW2, ascended (Im looking at needing three full sets plus seven weapons), with the drop rate as it is, I am facing potentially years of grind to finally have my character back to where he was a few months after launch. Half way insane ? Probably not (though my wife might disagree), but still a concern.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I spend probably 4-5 hours a week raiding. 13 weeks without anything is an anomaly and I have a difficult time believing this claim.

Still, raiding is more entertaining that sitting at a crafting station in GW2 and by far, raiding is not the only end game activity.

The only long part about crafting is gathering the materials, which can be done using different methods by just playing the game.

Once you have the materials it only takes an hour or so to reach max craft, maybe even less depending on how organized the person is.

It’s not like this is daoc crafting where it can take you over 8 hours to reach max craft(the entire time spent crafting at the forge or alch table, etc), and that was after the nerf that made it easier, it use to be harder.

Ashen.2907:

naiasonod.9265:

Yeah yeah yeah. You don’t spend 4-5 hours a week getting to the raids though.

In this case, the grind in GW2 is almost purely elective. Cosmetic-oriented, not function gated.

Nobody has to drive themselves halfway insane in GW2 to get to have very nice gear,

Isnt what you do to get to the raiding in WoW essentially playing the game?

In order to get the nice gear to enjoy playing GW2, ascended (Im looking at needing three full sets plus seven weapons), with the drop rate as it is, I am facing potentially years of grind to finally have my character back to where he was a few months after launch. Half way insane ? Probably not (though my wife might disagree), but still a concern.

I suppose that’s a fair point, though it didn’t feel like it to me. Part of it was the guild I felt stuck with, the rest was just how the system itself works, constantly feeling pressured to go go go. Guild leaders that aren’t crazy likely would’ve made it a very different experience for me in recent times. I know it used to be a lot different in Wrath, though all I was doing back then was pugging ICC and kitten ing around thinking it was the neatest thing I’d ever seen, WC3 fan that I was.

Who knows, maybe its just a case of burnt-out talking. Could be that. WoW’s approach just leaves a sour taste on my tongue anymore. Its like one giant rat race of being antagonized by not being finished yet, and in the end, you’ve had some good times with the good folks you’re with and nothing to show for it except gear I, at least, had become disgusted to even think about anymore and an exhausted feeling that makes the mere thought of doing it again next expac sound like something that’ll get all of my nope.

I’d almost forgotten what it was like to be able to just play, not worry about being productive and indulge childish whims. I waste my time a lot! And kitten, I can do that on GW2 without feeling like I’m screwing up my entire guild!

I like it. I suppose it just doesn’t feel grindy to me because I’ve enjoyed the grindy stuff I’ve done so it didn’t feel particularly grindy (but really, maxing out most of the crafting skills is pretty grindy, innit).

Nevermind me. I’m no expert on anything other than what things feel like and seem like to me. I know what I think very well? I’ll settle for that and hope its good.

Lambent.6375:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I spend probably 4-5 hours a week raiding. 13 weeks without anything is an anomaly and I have a difficult time believing this claim.

Still, raiding is more entertaining that sitting at a crafting station in GW2 and by far, raiding is not the only end game activity.

The only long part about crafting is gathering the materials, which can be done using different methods by just playing the game.

You mean by grinding gold?

Devata.6589:

Well mainly that gold is the primary or only way to get things and so you need to grind gold for all those things. Having gold / an economy as an extra is ok but not being able to work directly for many items but having to grind gold to buy them.. thats what I am talking about.

My famous mini example again. With the exception of a few mini most simply require you to grind gold and then buy them with gold. There is no option for you to get them from specific content ingame. This seems to be related to them wanting to sell gems but that does not make it any better. For a B2P game maybe even worse.

Same for a legendary.. what is the best way to get it? Grind gold and then buy what you need. It;s not working in game towards the items you need directly by doing specific content (farming, doing events and so on).

I do genuinely agree with part of what I think you’re suggesting.

I think back on my most prized possession, the Liadri mini. I earned that thing through endless hours of blood, sweat, and tears and when I finally bested her…was probably one of the best GW2 moments I’ve had. I did not (could not) buy it, I couldn’t champ train, buy gems, farm, or do anything but prove myself in order to earn it. It really is the only reward I’ve ever cared about in the game and when I proudly display it anyone who fought Liadri knows how hard I had to work to get it, and that it is well deserved.

I do sincerely wish more things were obtainable only through content, without the option to buy with gold or gems. It would make those things all the more valuable and treasured.

Specific drops from Tequatl or the Great Wurm are sort of in the right direction as they can’t be traded and prove at least you were there and got lucky. I would love to see the luck taken out of it though, so you are justly rewarded with real treasure for real effort.

naiasonod.9265:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I spend probably 4-5 hours a week raiding. 13 weeks without anything is an anomaly and I have a difficult time believing this claim.

Still, raiding is more entertaining that sitting at a crafting station in GW2 and by far, raiding is not the only end game activity.

Yeah yeah yeah. You don’t spend 4-5 hours a week getting to the raids though. I mean, I only spend a couple hours at work doing my job, but you’ll never get my job without six years of college at the minimum.

My job’s easy. I only spend maybe 3-4 hours a day doing it. Ignore everything that surrounds a cherry picked point and you can make it look pretty much however you care to present it though.

In this case, the grind in GW2 is almost purely elective. Cosmetic-oriented, not function gated.

Nobody has to drive themselves halfway insane in GW2 to get to have very nice gear, ya? I worked up crafting all by myself, and I crafted exotics all by myself. Consequently, I’ve got the second best gear in the game, and I didn’t have to join anyone’s cult to do it.

I’ll eventually have all the ascended armor, and I won’t have to drink anybody’s quirky Kool-Aid to get that here either. I’ll just need to go play the game.

Its a pretty huge difference from what it takes to have second best or BiS in WoW. If you raid, that should be kind’ve obvious.

In any event, I’m not saying GW2 has no grind. I’m saying that its a very different animal, and the grind here doesn’t at all seem to me to be nearly so forced if you want to function.

Also, 13 weeks of no gear for my buddy prior mentioned was due in part to our insane guild leaders, not strictly rng. When RNG isn’t being very nice and crazy guild leaders stick you at the bottom of the list of gear recipients because of reasons, going 13 weeks with nothing isn’t some sort of implausible. The poor guy had to get his locks t16 shoulders and trinket out of LFR because of it.

Maybe your experiences have been different. Honestly, I’d hope so.

It only took me a day to get enough gear for my fresh 90, and I was already raiding the latest content using the raid finder. Honestly, I don’t get why people who hate raiding play WoW since such a large part of the game revolves around it.

I enjoy raiding, and I do flex/normal raiding with my guild, who I’ve known for a couple years. It’s fun and it’s not much of a time commitment. Perhaps your friend should find sane people and a better guild to play with?

Heroic reading gear isn’t important to me. I have no interest in heroic raids and the gear is really just a status symbol. It’s nerfed in PvP and worse than dedicated PvP gear in PvP scenarios. Ascended gear in this game, however, is not nerfed in WvW. It provides a 10-15% damage increase and it’s tied to a long, boring, expensive grind.

Wasbunny.6531:

Devata.6589:

Well mainly that gold is the primary or only way to get things and so you need to grind gold for all those things. Having gold / an economy as an extra is ok but not being able to work directly for many items but having to grind gold to buy them.. thats what I am talking about.

My famous mini example again. With the exception of a few mini most simply require you to grind gold and then buy them with gold. There is no option for you to get them from specific content ingame. This seems to be related to them wanting to sell gems but that does not make it any better. For a B2P game maybe even worse.

Same for a legendary.. what is the best way to get it? Grind gold and then buy what you need. It;s not working in game towards the items you need directly by doing specific content (farming, doing events and so on).

I do genuinely agree with part of what I think you’re suggesting.

I think back on my most prized possession, the Liadri mini. I earned that thing through endless hours of blood, sweat, and tears and when I finally bested her…was probably one of the best GW2 moments I’ve had. I did not (could not) buy it, I couldn’t champ train, buy gems, farm, or do anything but prove myself in order to earn it. It really is the only reward I’ve ever cared about in the game and when I proudly display it anyone who fought Liadri knows how hard I had to work to get it, and that it is well deserved.

I do sincerely wish more things were obtainable only through content, without the option to buy with gold or gems. It would make those things all the more valuable and treasured.

Specific drops from Tequatl or the Great Wurm are sort of in the right direction as they can’t be traded and prove at least you were there and got lucky. I would love to see the luck taken out of it though, so you are justly rewarded with real treasure for real effort.

Yeah that is what I am talking about. While I would not mind if many of those items would not be account-bound (they would then likely be extremely pricey) some might indeed be.

I did miss out on that one and I do hope it comes back so I can have a go at it. Anyway what you saying about how that makes it have more value for you.

And just as how that gives something more value, grinding gold for it to buy it totally disvalues it for me and grinding gold is just not fun to me.

Devata.6589:

Lambent.6375:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I spend probably 4-5 hours a week raiding. 13 weeks without anything is an anomaly and I have a difficult time believing this claim.

Still, raiding is more entertaining that sitting at a crafting station in GW2 and by far, raiding is not the only end game activity.

The only long part about crafting is gathering the materials, which can be done using different methods by just playing the game.

You mean by grinding gold?

Playing the game.

Edit: dungeons, world bosses, cursed shore events, roaming in level 80 zones killing mobs, etc.

I don’t know about spvp since I don’t play it, but I hear it’s decent too.

Lambent.6375:

Playing the game.

Edit: dungeons, world bosses, cursed shore events, roaming in level 80 zones killing mobs, etc.

I don’t know about spvp since I don’t play it, but I hear it’s decent too.

I would never have managed to get enough materials for my ascended gear if i was just “playing the game” (and i am playing since the launch, and playing a lot). I had to go out of my way to gather/buy them. The content i usually play just doesn’t offer good enough rewards. It certainly doesn’t offer enough of the materials i needed.

And by the way, if you ask a random player in (mentioned by you) Cursed Shore why they are doing the events there, 90% of the time the answer will be “farming”. They are not interested in the events themselves (which is understandable, since the zone itself is both boring and ugly). It is just a grind.

Hi!

I find for leveling characters to eighty, the grind isn’t there and yet at level 80 there really is not much to do required for level 80s. The Level 80 dungeons, fractals or fighting thr super tough bosses or playing WvW.

As far as grind goes, there is a mega grind that is cyclic. The way it works is that you get your armor, weapons, trinkets, backpiece, runes and sigils. Then when a new “balance” patch breaks your build, you are forced into starting over the grind to get a new set of gear. Sure, buying yellows is cheap, but I, and most of us like exotics. That becomes a real big pain.

Many players talk about farming, and those I knew who went after legendaries had to grind for them (i.e do things you do not want to do to get the things you want or need.) This is called “work” where people grind away in jobs they do not like for a paycheck in order to pay the bills for thirty to fifty years of their life.

I boil all grinds down to time-relations since what we have to barter and make expressions with is time. What do we get for our spent time?

I stopped playing GW2 due to how many obstructions got in the way of time. From having to stop playing the way I wanted to due to having to make a new set of a gear due to a patch destroying my builds, to wondering why it takes longe to find an overflow in a living story where the guild back then could play together.

I play PSO2 in Japanese servers and interestingly enough, while grinds do exixt, it does not seem so severe because its not boring to me. Its not boring to me because as far as hairstyles go, there are 150+ for characters, costumes number in the hundreds too…difficulty levels are nice, and i can play alone or with others…There is always something to keep me interested and knowledge of the next patch is easilly obtained. GW2 has a community of faith-struck personnel who believe that one-day all will be fixed and all new content will occur. The last patch fixed stuff but it didnt change the way the game actually plays or appears at level 80.

I am after my masters degree in education and my undergraduate education was in computer science and music. My play session of guild wars 2 allowed me to play becauxe of the guild I ran, but the quality of the game drops when playing alone, and outside the guild i was used to playing for (Which i founded and lead) and yet when guild wars 2 started I enjoyed one good thing:

I could log in, for fifteen minutes, play and have something done. It was nice and it made me feel nice. Specially on busy days. Then over time it became a game where people in my friendlist refused to play with me because they said they were in a grind or farm, that they wished they could play normally but grinding and farming takes priority. I rmember people who logged in once a day to do their dailies for laurels and thats it.

My play sessions became that I could only play when I was willing to commit at leadt two to four hours at least….to the game, so I couldnt play on days I really focused on my studies and classes. If I did, I felt unfulfilled..

In playing PSO2 at least I can log in, choose the map I want to run, run it..win or lose and depending on map I can feel satisfied after five minutes, or fifteen minutes..

GW2 is a game I tried and did about everything possible on, with the exception of going after legendaries…for the time It takes to get a legendary, i can learn a different game altogether…I play games for fun, and to engage in something fun with others.

I would GRIND for a doctorate or a masters degree because it means something, I am paying for it and it does open doors, and lasts forever, while games are temporary, close down, or lose meaning. Sorry, but I cant see any of you playing guild wars 2 ten years from now.

Try all you want but I went from being a very satisified and loyal player, to being completely the opposite. I dont even want to hear of this game anymore, and Ive moved on, I speak only now to people I met in this game.

I replied here because I was linked to this thread and asked to reply.

Astralporing.1957:

Lambent.6375:

Playing the game.

Edit: dungeons, world bosses, cursed shore events, roaming in level 80 zones killing mobs, etc.

I don’t know about spvp since I don’t play it, but I hear it’s decent too.

I would never have managed to get enough materials for my ascended gear if i was just “playing the game” (and i am playing since the launch, and playing a lot). I had to go out of my way to gather/buy them. The content i usually play just doesn’t offer good enough rewards. It certainly doesn’t offer enough of the materials i needed.

And by the way, if you ask a random player in (mentioned by you) Cursed Shore why they are doing the events there, 90% of the time the answer will be “farming”. They are not interested in the events themselves (which is understandable, since the zone itself is both boring and ugly). It is just a grind.

The game is different now though. Before, the activities in this game were unequal when it came to rewards, so they ended going through several nerfs to make them more balanced.

And if someone in CS said they were their to farm, that doesn’t tell the whole story because some people play the game for the sake of farming, while others view farming as something negative.

Lambent.6375:

And if someone in CS said they were their to farm, that doesn’t tell the whole story because some people play the game for the sake of farming, while others view farming as something negative.

Yes, there are people that actually like grinding. It doesn’t make the grind disappear however.

Astralporing.1957:

Lambent.6375:

And if someone in CS said they were their to farm, that doesn’t tell the whole story because some people play the game for the sake of farming, while others view farming as something negative.

Yes, there are people that actually like grinding. It doesn’t make the grind disappear however.

I think that if they like something it isnt a grind for them. At least from my experience, grind is a negative term. If something is not a negative for someone then a negative label doesn’t really apply for them.

I, for example, love cursed shore. Its probably my favorite portion of the game. To me it is not ugly or boring.

Astralporing.1957:

Lambent.6375:

And if someone in CS said they were their to farm, that doesn’t tell the whole story because some people play the game for the sake of farming, while others view farming as something negative.

Yes, there are people that actually like grinding. It doesn’t make the grind disappear however.

Which is fortunate for them since they don’t have to slug it out in CS if they don’t want to, and there are now things they can do that are as equally rewarding or greater.

Seth.1308:

The Pointless.3869:

Sorry but just no. He doesn’t have to “prove” anything. The gear is out there, it gives better stats, period. Unless you want to debate that “fact,” prove to my satisfaction that stats don’t matter.

That’s not the point. The point is this: is the difference between Ascended and Exotic really worth the effort? Does the end justify the means? Nobody’s denying that Ascended offers better stats, but are the stats even that much of an improvement to strive for?

Think of it like car selection in a racer. One of those cars will be the fastest, and can outrun everything else on a straightforward sprint, but all that speed isn’t much good on a winding loop. In much a similar way, that edge you’ve got from your Ascended armour might not make a jot of difference when every factor comes into play.

If it required zero effort either way, which one would you pick? If you would pick the higher stats, then what you are saying is that the amount of effort to obtain (i.e. grind) is a gating factor.

Your analogy is a bad one, because there is no balancing performance advantage to taking Exotics over Ascended. Try two cars with absolutely equivalent handling, on the same track conditions, except one has 10% more horsepower, for $50k more cost. Is it worth it? Maybe… maybe not. It depends on if you plan on winning the race or not.

Does it really? What is the purpose of ‘Winning the Race"? If it’s to earn victory money, then just save the $50,000 and mentally add it to your winnings in the 91% performance car.

If it’s winning races, then time’s better spent in the 91% performance car and entering it into more races with a car good enough that, while the better car wins a slightly higher %, the slower car wins more simply by entering and racing more (And also getting a more skilled driver through the experience).