Guild Wars 2

Shindar the Reaver.2518:

If you’re going to put in stat advantage grinds, go all the way and make the grind feel rewarding as other successful games have. This kitten long grind for minor upgrades stuff is terrible.

That’s the irony.

Ascended gear is vertical progression gated by a huge grind, yet when you finally get it, the upgrades are so minor and subtle, that it’s pretty unsatisfying.

This is a great example of how, when a company wants to appeal to as many types of players as possible, it ends up not appealing anyone. Ascended gear is unsatisfying for those who enjoy long-term vertical progression, and undesirable for those who don’t.

Devata.6589:

Teon.5168:

Devata.6589:

Most of what you name I don’t consider grind. Like I said, it’s the fact that you have to grind gold to get anything in the game in stead of working for it.

I can’t say I do belong to the “back then we played real MMO’s” because back then I did not play MMO’s I did play other games. However I don’t mind if leveling takes long.

How do you know you wouldn’t consider it all a grind, if you never played any of the older mmos?

Yours’ and other’s complaints about the ‘grind for gold’ in this game pretty much proves to me, imo, that you and others would absolutely detest the grind for everything in the older mmos…….one didn’t just grind for levels, or gold, or elite items…..there was a grind for nearly everything in the game.

Not trying to state the “when I was your age had to walk through 6 feet of snow for 10 miles bare naked to get to school” sort of nonsense. It’s just that the mmos back in the pre Wow days just thought that everyone wanted to play an mmorpg that required the players to mindlessly grind for absurd amounts of time. The definition of ‘grind’ has changed so, so much over the years…….it’s just difficult for me to call much of anything in this game a grind, in the true sense of the word, imo.

Maybe it would help if you define grind in stead of saying everything was a grind in those games. Anyway, I am talking about the current or even my definition of grind. And then there is to much gold gold gold.. grind.

I like to play for the items, not get gold to buy them. It is that simple.

Spending a week, 4-8 hours a day at a single spawn point in order to get a chance at a single drop for a single quest. That’s the kind of thing we’re talking about when we say a grind. You have absolutely no way of interpreting these experiences in what is currently available.

Teon.5168:

Devata.6589:

Most of what you name I don’t consider grind. Like I said, it’s the fact that you have to grind gold to get anything in the game in stead of working for it.

I can’t say I do belong to the “back then we played real MMO’s” because back then I did not play MMO’s I did play other games. However I don’t mind if leveling takes long.

How do you know you wouldn’t consider it all a grind, if you never played any of the older mmos?

Yours’ and other’s complaints about the ‘grind for gold’ in this game pretty much proves to me, imo, that you and others would absolutely detest the grind for everything in the older mmos…….one didn’t just grind for levels, or gold, or elite items…..there was a grind for nearly everything in the game.

Not trying to state the “when I was your age had to walk through 6 feet of snow for 10 miles bare naked to get to school” sort of nonsense. It’s just that the mmos back in the pre Wow days just thought that everyone wanted to play an mmorpg that required the players to mindlessly grind for absurd amounts of time. The definition of ‘grind’ has changed so, so much over the years…….it’s just difficult for me to call much of anything in this game a grind, in the true sense of the word, imo.

I would see some of the people that are complaining over the grind here, just level 1 crafting profession to max in Everquest 2.

To make a crafting level you needed maybe to craft 30-50 items, and every crafting process was like a mini game where you had to react and counter different conditions, in the beginng you could even die from crafting. Now with that crafting a level took you maybe an hour, but of course you also needed another 1-2 hours run around harvesting all the mats you needed for that, or of course you could farm gold and buy them of the AH.

Serophous.9085:

So….killing the same i monster over and over for gold is a grind.
Killing the same monster over and over, hoping for a possible rare drop, for a specific quest for a rare item, isn’t a grind its working towards a goal.

Well almost. It would be farming that monster for the drop, however there are a few big differences. First of all, yeah for that one rare drop you need to kill that one mob but for another rare item you want you need to do something else (run a dungeon) and for yes something else maybe a JP and so on. While now it’s all ‘want that Grind gold’. So that is different while in practice you still could do the same content.

Secondly the reward itself is more rewarding because you did get it for that specific content. You killed that monster over 1000 times but you now has that mini (or whatever) as reward. Else it would just be another mini you did buy after grinding gold.

Lastly if stuff drops as general loot you can not only not really work towards it but it also drops for a lot of people who do not want it, they will likely sell it to be able to buy what they want. However because of that is totally devalues all the items. It’s nothing special anymore. It’s like everybody would be farming only that one monster. That that rare would not be very special anymore. That is now what happens with most items.

Shindar the Reaver.2518:

I quit playing around when ascended items were announced. Just came here to see if they gave up on the idea of a long grind for stat advantages rather than cosmetics.

Cosmetic grind is just as bad. Especially for a game that is all build around cosmetics.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

I did not play EQN2 but the way you define grind is not what I and many people are complaining about. The the endless gold-grind that people complain about.

I would love to in fact have to do something for my rewards.. something specific, not just grinding gold because as you say, that is much more memorable.

The thing is, from the way many " Modern Gamers" use the term " grind", it seems to me that what you now consider grind… we who have been around since UO, EQ1, CoH, SWG…DAoC… yes, the “pre-World of Warcraft” era, before MMO’s were so simplified, that players can expect and demand… level cap in a week… etc… We called " Playing the Game."

Playing the game, meant you did not reach level cap for at least 6 months to maybe 9 months.

Playing the game meant that the Item you wanted…The EverQuest Epic for your class, took many different quests, some you could do alone, some you needed a couple of people to help…some you needed a whole guild to take down some world Boss… and back then World Bosses made grenth and Lyssa Look… weak.

Back then… an Epic… was so much More difficult to get than a legendary, and was Not something you could Buy off anyone else. It was soulbound on acquire.

Back then the best rewards were things you had to work for… fact is…whoever got their Epic probably worked on it for 6 to 9 months….after reaching level cap….. if they were lucky.

Today’s gamers toss the word " Grind" around as if they knew what a grind was. If they were ever to try a “real” MMO, and Not these " MMO-lites." That have become common since WoW simplified, and … eliminated most of what playing an MMO was, they would rage quit and whine about " This is just boring grinding!"

Back then… buying In game Gold with cash was anathema. People that did it were not " the average gamer." but seen as lazy. back then people that griefed others, trolls, were ostracized In games where being ostracized meant you could not get content accompliahed. You needed help from others. and that led to a feeling of community.

I have to laugh when I see threads like this… " grind" .. today’s players simply have no conception of what a true grind is, since Not many games since WoW revolutionized the MMO Genre, By simplifying it to " level cap in a week, because…. The game begins at level cap." has any grind in it. Anything that might extend the longevity or even make the game more entertaining, by making it more challenging is shouted down as " Boring grind..I’ll rage quit and take my money with me."

Back then the game began at level 1. And what many of us enjoyed from level 1. you guys would consider “grinding”.

And WoW, being a multi-billion company says that everything you’ve wrote here is not what the majority wants.
And with good reason.

Most people work 8 hours a day, with a 2 hour commute, they have families to raise, dinners to cook, houses to clean.
They do not have time to spend 4-6 hours per day playing a “game”. If you want that kind of grind, go play a korean mmo.

People who have lives and also want to get a good nights sleep, shouldn’t be pushed to solo games because they’re “whining about grind” that you seem to think makes an mmo.

Last I checked mmo means mass multi-player, not “forget about living life, just work, I mean ‘play’ the game”.

Just because this game has less grind than your “golden era”, doesn’t mean there isn’t grind. It also doesn’t mean it’s fun.

GW2 is a game, it’s not work, it’s not a work or life simulator, it’s a game.
People want to do whats fun. And spending days and days repeating the same dungeon over and over again, because it’s the only real way to get gold, which is the ONLY way to get your legendary.

Well that is a grind.
It’s a grind because it’s overly repetitive. you need to do a 1000 dungeon paths to get your pre. That becomes boring no matter what way you look at it.

Taygus.4571:

which is the ONLY way to get your legendary.

Why are people always so obsessed about Legendarys ? You don’t need them, they are also just skins and most of them are ugly IMHO.

Taygus.4571:

Nerelith.7360:

The thing is, from the way many " Modern Gamers" use the term " grind", it seems to me that what you now consider grind… we who have been around since UO, EQ1, CoH, SWG…DAoC… yes, the “pre-World of Warcraft” era, before MMO’s were so simplified, that players can expect and demand… level cap in a week… etc… We called " Playing the Game."

Playing the game, meant you did not reach level cap for at least 6 months to maybe 9 months.

Playing the game meant that the Item you wanted…The EverQuest Epic for your class, took many different quests, some you could do alone, some you needed a couple of people to help…some you needed a whole guild to take down some world Boss… and back then World Bosses made grenth and Lyssa Look… weak.

Back then… an Epic… was so much More difficult to get than a legendary, and was Not something you could Buy off anyone else. It was soulbound on acquire.

Back then the best rewards were things you had to work for… fact is…whoever got their Epic probably worked on it for 6 to 9 months….after reaching level cap….. if they were lucky.

Today’s gamers toss the word " Grind" around as if they knew what a grind was. If they were ever to try a “real” MMO, and Not these " MMO-lites." That have become common since WoW simplified, and … eliminated most of what playing an MMO was, they would rage quit and whine about " This is just boring grinding!"

Back then… buying In game Gold with cash was anathema. People that did it were not " the average gamer." but seen as lazy. back then people that griefed others, trolls, were ostracized In games where being ostracized meant you could not get content accompliahed. You needed help from others. and that led to a feeling of community.

I have to laugh when I see threads like this… " grind" .. today’s players simply have no conception of what a true grind is, since Not many games since WoW revolutionized the MMO Genre, By simplifying it to " level cap in a week, because…. The game begins at level cap." has any grind in it. Anything that might extend the longevity or even make the game more entertaining, by making it more challenging is shouted down as " Boring grind..I’ll rage quit and take my money with me."

Back then the game began at level 1. And what many of us enjoyed from level 1. you guys would consider “grinding”.

And WoW, being a multi-billion company says that everything you’ve wrote here is not what the majority wants.
And with good reason.

Most people work 8 hours a day, with a 2 hour commute, they have families to raise, dinners to cook, houses to clean.
They do not have time to spend 4-6 hours per day playing a “game”. If you want that kind of grind, go play a korean mmo.

People who have lives and also want to get a good nights sleep, shouldn’t be pushed to solo games because they’re “whining about grind” that you seem to think makes an mmo.

Last I checked mmo means mass multi-player, not “forget about living life, just work, I mean ‘play’ the game”.

Just because this game has less grind than your “golden era”, doesn’t mean there isn’t grind. It also doesn’t mean it’s fun.

GW2 is a game, it’s not work, it’s not a work or life simulator, it’s a game.
People want to do whats fun. And spending days and days repeating the same dungeon over and over again, because it’s the only real way to get gold, which is the ONLY way to get your legendary.

Well that is a grind.
It’s a grind because it’s overly repetitive. you need to do a 1000 dungeon paths to get your pre. That becomes boring no matter what way you look at it.

I love when people jump into a discussion and start arguing vehemently just for the sake of argument.

Could you point to where he said this is the way it should be? Could you point to where he said people wanted to play that way, or want to play that way now?

The entire point of his post was to explain how it was before. He even specifically cited, multiple times, that WoW changed it. He isn’t saying that it was better then, just that it was so different that kids today can’t even comprehend what an actual grind is. When absolutely every little thing you do is such a grind that you don’t even realize it’s a grind because it’s simply how the game is it makes any complaint now of grinds to pale in comparison.

Also, back them MMOs were marketed for kids, not adults. Adults with all these responsibilities weren’t the main MMO gamers. They have become so now because they were kids back then.

So maybe you should take a step back next time before you start spitting venom and self-righteousness at a simple description of the way it used to be, and will probably never be again.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I love when people jump into a discussion and start arguing vehemently just for the sake of argument.

Could you point to where he said this is the way it should be? Could you point to where he said people wanted to play that way, or want to play that way now?

The entire point of his post was to explain how it was before. He even specifically cited, multiple times, that WoW changed it. He isn’t saying that it was better then, just that it was so different that kids today can’t even comprehend what an actual grind is. When absolutely every little thing you do is such a grind that you don’t even realize it’s a grind because it’s simply how the game is it makes any complaint now of grinds to pale in comparison.

Also, back them MMOs were marketed for kids, not adults. Adults with all these responsibilities weren’t the main MMO gamers. They have become so now because they were kids back then.

So maybe you should take a step back, next time before you start spitting venom and self-righteousness at a simple description of that way it used to be, and will probably never be again.

His whole posts screams of this is how it was and how it should be.
“Back then the game began at level 1. And what many of us enjoyed from level 1. you guys would consider “grinding”.”

My point with my post, is that just because there was “longer grind” doesn’t mean gw2 doesn’t have grind. It doesn’t mean one should enjoy and stop complaining about gw2 grind.
because there is grind here, whther or not other games have more/less or better implemented grind.

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

which is the ONLY way to get your legendary.

Why are people always so obsessed about Legendarys ? You don’t need them, they are also just skins and most of them are ugly IMHO.

/endgame content.
It was just one example, you want skins, grind gold or grind keys
ascended gear, it’s quicker to grind gold than it is to grind for the mats.

It all comes down to repeating the same tasks over and over again, to get everything you want. People want to do different tasks for different items.
Also a reason to actually hunt down crafting mats rather than buy them would be good.

Taygus.4571:

My point with my post, is that just because there was “longer grind” doesn’t mean gw2 doesn’t have grind. It doesn’t mean one should enjoy and stop complaining about gw2 grind.
because there is grind here, whther or not other games have more/less or better implemented grind.

EVERY MMO has a grind, else you would play through the content and after 50-100 hours or whatever you have seen all and need to buy a new game, just like in Singleplayer games.

MMOs need grind, since nobody can create content so fast how players can consume them.

If you can’t get used to that, stop playing MMOs, or at least stop playing them as soon as you can’t stand the grind anymore and start another game.

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

which is the ONLY way to get your legendary.

Why are people always so obsessed about Legendarys ? You don’t need them, they are also just skins and most of them are ugly IMHO.

I think it’s only an example. The fact that you don’t need it does not matter. It’s a game so it’s mandatory in total.

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

My point with my post, is that just because there was “longer grind” doesn’t mean gw2 doesn’t have grind. It doesn’t mean one should enjoy and stop complaining about gw2 grind.
because there is grind here, whther or not other games have more/less or better implemented grind.

EVERY MMO has a grind, else you would play through the content and after 50-100 hours or whatever you have seen all and need to buy a new game, just like in Singleplayer games.

MMOs need grind, since nobody can create content so fast how players can consume them.

If you can’t get used to that, stop playing MMOs, or at least stop playing them as soon as you can’t stand the grind anymore and start another game.

Ok let me rephrase;
the main problem isn;t the grind, it’s that it’s the SAME grind for everything ingame.

Taygus.4571:

Ok let me rephrase;
the main problem isn;t the grind, it’s that it’s the SAME grind for everything ingame.

And personally, as someone who never has luck with RNG i like that much more because when i grind for gold i can play whatever content i want and see a constent progress, while when i need to grind maybe Mob X for item Y i can do that 100 hours and in the end get nothing. And of course i don’t have the choice to play whatever content i like and must maybe play what i really dislike if i want that item.

Taygus.4571:

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

My point with my post, is that just because there was “longer grind” doesn’t mean gw2 doesn’t have grind. It doesn’t mean one should enjoy and stop complaining about gw2 grind.
because there is grind here, whther or not other games have more/less or better implemented grind.

EVERY MMO has a grind, else you would play through the content and after 50-100 hours or whatever you have seen all and need to buy a new game, just like in Singleplayer games.

MMOs need grind, since nobody can create content so fast how players can consume them.

If you can’t get used to that, stop playing MMOs, or at least stop playing them as soon as you can’t stand the grind anymore and start another game.

Ok let me rephrase;
the main problem isn;t the grind, it’s that it’s the SAME grind for everything ingame.

So you want the grind more spread out, so it’s a different grind for each individual thing? That’s the point us old timey gamers are making. This is an easy grind cause you only have to do one thing to cover everything. Rather than everything you do is a different grind for a specific result.

But ultimately there is a grind everywhere, no matter what you do, if you want to play an MMO. This one, though, has the least grind I’ve experienced in a long time.

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

Ok let me rephrase;
the main problem isn;t the grind, it’s that it’s the SAME grind for everything ingame.

And personally, as someone who never has luck with RNG i like that much more because when i grind for gold i can play whatever content i want and see a constent progress, while when i need to grind maybe Mob X for item Y i can do that 100 hours and in the end get nothing. And of course i don’t have the choice to play whatever content i like and must maybe play what i really dislike if i want that item.

So have the gold,
have multiple ways of getting any item
and also have skins etc that can be got from specific content only (but can be sold.)

so people who want teq skin, can play teq over and over, there’s a chance they’ll get teq skin, but they could sell it.
Same for a frac, a chance you’ll get it, but can also be sold.
And have other options for other skins or more options.

Like create a teq mini game, and you can get teq skins from that mini game. That would 3 options to get the same skin. (including gold option to buy the skin)

Add a token based option. SO if they want the content to take an average of say 100 hours to get that skin, allow you to build up “teq” tokens to trade in for the skin if you’re so unlucky. (while still having the gold option if players choose to sell it.)

Obviously this would change the market quite a bit, a gold rewards may have to be lowered, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

More options for same thing would make the grind seem less, would you agree with that?

Taygus.4571:

Like create a teq mini game, and you can get teq skins from that mini game. That would 3 options to get the same skin. (including gold option to buy the skin)

And i bet in that moment people would cry : now we have to grind this mini game for those token AND grind the other options. Since whenever we get more options some people directly think they have to do ALL of them

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

Like create a teq mini game, and you can get teq skins from that mini game. That would 3 options to get the same skin. (including gold option to buy the skin)

And i bet in that moment people would cry : now we have to grind this mini game for those token AND grind the other options. Since whenever we get more options some people directly think they have to do ALL of them

well, they could do the teq mini game and teq itself. that would increase their chance of a skin by 2 afterall :P.
I just think this game really needs more options outside of gold.
I also totally agree that keeping things entirely rng and to one content only, is a bad idea. (anything relies on luck is bound to kitten a large number of players off, precursors are a perfect example).

I would like multiple options for everything, for this game to truly feel grind free.

Taygus.4571:

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

Like create a teq mini game, and you can get teq skins from that mini game. That would 3 options to get the same skin. (including gold option to buy the skin)

And i bet in that moment people would cry : now we have to grind this mini game for those token AND grind the other options. Since whenever we get more options some people directly think they have to do ALL of them

well, they could do the teq mini game and teq itself. that would increase their chance of a skin by 2 afterall :P.
I just think this game really needs more options outside of gold.
I also totally agree that keeping things entirely rng and to one content only, is a bad idea. (anything relies on luck is bound to kitten a large number of players off, precursors are a perfect example).

I would like multiple options for everything, for this game to truly feel grind free.

I’m always open for more options .. i’m only against all thing that give me less options and try to force me to play a specific content that i don’t like, because else i am not able to get a specific item.

But in the end if Option A is to run Dungeon x 1-1000 times to get an item, or do maybe 30 hours random stuff like worldevents, champ trains, harvest platinum and lemongrass .. i would always take that over option A

Taygus.4571:

It all comes down to repeating the same tasks over and over again, to get everything you want. People want to do different tasks for different items.

Then do different tasks? If it’s all about “grinding gold”, then there are a multitude of ways to gain gold in-game. Find the way(s) that you enjoy, and suddenly gaining gold isn’t even a grind any longer but just a by-product of spending your time with activities that are actually fun to you.

If the game can not offer you anything fun without you spending countless hours on un-fun activities first, then maybe it’s time for you to sit back and seriously reconsider how you are spending your free time.

Personally, I enjoy this game precisely because it does not force me to run a specific dungeon or kill a specific boss countless times just to get a chance at a specific reward. It allows me to choose freely whatever activity I’m in the mood for at any point, no matter if it’s leveling, map exploration, dungeons, WvW, sPvP or whatever, and while I spend my time doing things I enjoy, all kinds of skins, crafting materials and currencies pile up in my bank account, until I realize that I’ve actually got enough to craft or buy something nice I’ve been looking forward to.

I quit my last MMO because the equipment I “needed” to make my characters fit for the endgame raids I wanted to run were only found on specific bosses in specific instances. If I wanted to go for a competitive character build for endgame, I had to run that instance until my fingers bleed, and long past the point of actually enjoying the content. That is what I consider grind.

A game like GW2 that allows me to play whatever content I enjoy and still know that I’m making progress towards the equipment I’d like to aquire is a refreshing concept. After more than 20 years of playing MUDs and MMOs, this game has become one of my all-time favourites, exactly because I always find something fun to do and never feel forced to grind for anything.

But maybe I’m just to old to see the grind …

For ascended to be truly worthwhile being account bound is not enough.

They must also unlock their stats.
Why making a berserker and a soldier set when you can only equip one at a time?
And the more you make, the more storage you need to keep what you’ve done.

But what if equipping an ascended unlocked its stats, so you could change to those stats with that type of item with any character?

Suddenly there’s a decent reason to make more than one ascended.
You make two swords with one stat combination each, and now two characters can have one sword and switch between two stat combinations while out of combat.

But there’s also the problem of how grindy they feel. There’s many things to fix in that reward, like better but less frequent rewards in gameplay. But one of them is the cooldown of crafting.

Not everyone can get all materials for crafting daily, but sometimes you do something that gives more materials. But the countdown is daily. So even if the next day you got more, you still have to wait one more day.
Because of that, instead having daily limit of one material, they should give accounts a quota instead. Each day an account’s quota for each limited material is increased by one up to a cap of… let’ say 30 days, so if you don’t craft anything for 30 days, you can craft 30 times. This way ascended crafting is still time-gated, but those who take longer to get the materials are not as punished as those who get them faster, like those who farm and speeclear, then just buy the stuff.

Oh, and crafting boosters won’t be useless for ascended crafters. Who would be stupid enough to waste a booster to craft just 4 things a day?

These are just 2 examples of improvements the game needs when it comes to ascended crafting, acquisition and mechanics, but there’s still more to do.

MithranArkanere.8957:

They must also unlock their stats.
Why making a berserker and a soldier set when you can only equip one at a time?
And the more you make, the more storage you need to keep what you’ve done.

But what if equipping an ascended unlocked its stats, so you could change to those stats with that type of item with any character?

I’d like that, good suggestion!
+1
/signed

laokoko.7403:

I kind of like timed gate.

Rather than grinding for 10 hours straight, developer reminded you we only allow you to play for 1 hours, please go take a rest.

There is diminishing returns too. So longer you grind less you get

I would prefer different grinds to affect different things. Instanced grinds for multiple new tiers of gear beyond exotic, whose stats ONLY affect those instances. Once you step foot outside you go back to exotic gear. Anet could then go crazy with tiers, and it would reduce the affect on external players thus reduce the whine (not eliminate, but reduce).

Basically, split grinds into 3 categories:

1) PvP grind – grinding for pvp loots, skins, level books, etc (lots of grinding because it really isn’t grinding as much as just doing what you’d normally do anyway)
2) Dungeon grind – grinding for tiers of armor that affect dungeons and ONLY dungeons. Outside of dungeons, this armor is reduced to exotic level(lots of grinding, because that’s really what dungeons are about anyway. No grind, no point in doing dungeons more than once or twice)
3) Open world grind – grinding for whatever in the open world. New skins, map completion, living story stuff, etc. (Minimal grind here. This is the area for the no grind people)

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

Ok let me rephrase;
the main problem isn;t the grind, it’s that it’s the SAME grind for everything ingame.

And personally, as someone who never has luck with RNG i like that much more because when i grind for gold i can play whatever content i want and see a constent progress, while when i need to grind maybe Mob X for item Y i can do that 100 hours and in the end get nothing. And of course i don’t have the choice to play whatever content i like and must maybe play what i really dislike if i want that item.

No,
If you want one specific mini that is account-bound then yes you need to do that specific content. But first of all I am not saying that they all should be account-bound. Some might be many won’t. So grinding your gold is still an option for most of them. (just like now)

The gold-grind will also not help you to be more likely to get it. The amount of gold you make often still depends partly of RNG. And if a mini drops 1 in a 100 times then you can be pretty sure you have it before you did it 100 times.

To get the correct amount of money you might also need to do something else about 100 times. So that does not change a thing.

Stuff that is hard but gives a guaranteed drop would most likely be account-bound.

I actually prefer “Gold Grinding” over having content be locked behind farming/specific events. It means that I can have fun doing whatever the hell I want in the game and buy whatever rewards I want that I’ve earned through my goofing off and getting paid for it, having fun my own way, instead of having to submit to whatever an individual game designer arbitrarily decides what needs to be done to get something I want. The current trait system is the worst of both worlds right now, though.

I do need to figure out how to use my alternative currencies like Karma and whatever else I get from events.

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

Like create a teq mini game, and you can get teq skins from that mini game. That would 3 options to get the same skin. (including gold option to buy the skin)

And i bet in that moment people would cry : now we have to grind this mini game for those token AND grind the other options. Since whenever we get more options some people directly think they have to do ALL of them

well, they could do the teq mini game and teq itself. that would increase their chance of a skin by 2 afterall :P.
I just think this game really needs more options outside of gold.
I also totally agree that keeping things entirely rng and to one content only, is a bad idea. (anything relies on luck is bound to kitten a large number of players off, precursors are a perfect example).

I would like multiple options for everything, for this game to truly feel grind free.

I’m always open for more options .. i’m only against all thing that give me less options and try to force me to play a specific content that i don’t like, because else i am not able to get a specific item.

But in the end if Option A is to run Dungeon x 1-1000 times to get an item, or do maybe 30 hours random stuff like worldevents, champ trains, harvest platinum and lemongrass .. i would always take that over option A

In hours it will be about the same. It would depend a little on how many people do the specific content. Let’s say it’s a very popular dungeons people just do a lot there will be more people getting the mini (also while they do not want it) so it will cost less on the TP meaning your grinding gold will go faster. If it’s behind content that almost nobody does then those doing it are likely people that do it for that item and so the number of those on the TP will be higher meaning you would need to grind longer then you would have to do that content to get that item.

On everage it would be the same thing however. And for your image.. somebody is not doing the dungeon1 – 1000 times. He still does different things as he is likely working towards different items.

Devata.6589:

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

Ok let me rephrase;
the main problem isn;t the grind, it’s that it’s the SAME grind for everything ingame.

And personally, as someone who never has luck with RNG i like that much more because when i grind for gold i can play whatever content i want and see a constent progress, while when i need to grind maybe Mob X for item Y i can do that 100 hours and in the end get nothing. And of course i don’t have the choice to play whatever content i like and must maybe play what i really dislike if i want that item.

No,
If you want one specific mini that is account-bound then yes you need to do that specific content. But first of all I am not saying that they all should be account-bound. Some might be many won’t. So grinding your gold is still an option for most of them. (just like now)

The gold-grind will also not help you to be more likely to get it. The amount of gold you make often still depends partly of RNG. And if a mini drops 1 in a 100 times then you can be pretty sure you have it before you did it 100 times.

To get the correct amount of money you might also need to do something else about 100 times. So that does not change a thing.

Stuff that is hard but gives a guaranteed drop would most likely be account-bound.

No, there is no guarantee that you can be pretty sure you have it before you do it 100 times. In fact, I’m pretty sure the actual chance is less than 50%.

And, when going for Gold instead of farming specific mobs, it doesn’t have to be the SAME event 100 times. I can do whatever the hell I feel like whenever I want for however long I want, and eventually get what I want, having fun the entire time.

Tolmos.8395:

I would prefer different grinds to affect different things. Instanced grinds for multiple new tiers of gear beyond exotic, whose stats ONLY affect those instances. Once you step foot outside you go back to exotic gear. Anet could then go crazy with tiers, and it would reduce the affect on external players thus reduce the whine (not eliminate, but reduce).

Basically, split grinds into 3 categories:

1) PvP grind – grinding for pvp loots, skins, level books, etc (lots of grinding because it really isn’t grinding as much as just doing what you’d normally do anyway)
2) Dungeon grind – grinding for tiers of armor that affect dungeons and ONLY dungeons. Outside of dungeons, this armor is reduced to exotic level(lots of grinding, because that’s really what dungeons are about anyway. No grind, no point in doing dungeons more than once or twice)
3) Open world grind – grinding for whatever in the open world. New skins, map completion, living story stuff, etc. (Minimal grind here. This is the area for the no grind people)

Like they did with SAB you mean?

Sartharina.3542:

Devata.6589:

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

Ok let me rephrase;
the main problem isn;t the grind, it’s that it’s the SAME grind for everything ingame.

And personally, as someone who never has luck with RNG i like that much more because when i grind for gold i can play whatever content i want and see a constent progress, while when i need to grind maybe Mob X for item Y i can do that 100 hours and in the end get nothing. And of course i don’t have the choice to play whatever content i like and must maybe play what i really dislike if i want that item.

No,
If you want one specific mini that is account-bound then yes you need to do that specific content. But first of all I am not saying that they all should be account-bound. Some might be many won’t. So grinding your gold is still an option for most of them. (just like now)

The gold-grind will also not help you to be more likely to get it. The amount of gold you make often still depends partly of RNG. And if a mini drops 1 in a 100 times then you can be pretty sure you have it before you did it 100 times.

To get the correct amount of money you might also need to do something else about 100 times. So that does not change a thing.

Stuff that is hard but gives a guaranteed drop would most likely be account-bound.

No, there is no guarantee that you can be pretty sure you have it before you do it 100 times. In fact, I’m pretty sure the actual chance is less than 50%.

And, when going for Gold instead of farming specific mobs, it doesn’t have to be the SAME event 100 times. I can do whatever the hell I feel like whenever I want for however long I want, and eventually get what I want, having fun the entire time.

If you think the chance would be less then 50% at a 100 times where it drops 1/100 then you have a problem with math. At 100 tries it would be close to 100 but will never be 100.

No I never said 100 the same things. What I am getting at is that you just do something for an equal amount of time / effort.

Anyway that all does not matter. What matters is that if you would specific rewards behind specific content you still still grind gold if thats you thing. The way it is now it’s the only way.

Taygus.4571:

His whole posts screams of this is how it was and how it should be.
“Back then the game began at level 1. And what many of us enjoyed from level 1. you guys would consider “grinding”.”

How on earth do you come to that conclusion when “enjoyed” is the past tense of enjoy? We enjoyed it back then because that is all there was.

Kal’s post just explains what it used to be like. What the grind was really like. Not that we should go back to it, or that it was the best thing, or anything like that.

Coming to the conclusion that his post “screams of this is how it was and how it should be.” is really grasping at straws, imo…….trying to manufacture something that isn’t there just so it fits your argument.

Arcade Fire.4895:

You don’t know what you’re talking about nor do you have any experience with MMO’s apparently. I don’t think you realize what grinding in a game can actually be. This game keeps making strides towards casuals like you that whine incessantly who demand instant gratification and it’s ruining it.

There’s a reason it’s a legendary weapon.

I dislike instant gratification as much as I dislike extreme grinding. It’s not a good idea to judge a person you know nothing about.

Also, there’s nothing legendary about legendary weapons in this game, outside of name. Where’s the epic adventure? The legendary flavor and storytelling behind it? The dangeous and exciting challenges that players take to get it?

There’s nothing legendary about breaking poorly designed dungeons, nothing legendary behind auto-attacking in zergs, and nothing legendary by winning the jackpot on the mystic toilet.

Arcade Fire.4895:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Shindar the Reaver.2518:

If you’re going to put in stat advantage grinds, go all the way and make the grind feel rewarding as other successful games have. This kitten long grind for minor upgrades stuff is terrible.

That’s the irony.

Ascended gear is vertical progression gated by a huge grind, yet when you finally get it, the upgrades are so minor and subtle, that it’s pretty unsatisfying.

This is a great example of how, when a company wants to appeal to as many types of players as possible, it ends up not appealing anyone. Ascended gear is unsatisfying for those who enjoy long-term vertical progression, and undesirable for those who don’t.

You don’t know what you’re talking about nor do you have any experience with MMO’s apparently. I don’t think you realize what grinding in a game can actually be. This game keeps making strides towards casuals like you that whine incessantly who demand instant gratification and it’s ruining it.

There’s a reason it’s a legendary weapon.

He said Ascended, not Legendary. Ascended is best-in-slot and getting it is grindy. Also, your guesses about his experiences can not possible be an argument, or refute his statements. Why you would imply it could is … puzzling.

Sartharina.3542:

…No, there is no guarantee that you can be pretty sure you have it before you do it 100 times. In fact, I’m pretty sure the actual chance is less than 50%.

About 63% chance actually.

Every attempt has a 99% (0,99) chance that you do not get it. So the chance that you never get it in 100 attempts is 0,99 ^ 100 = 0,366. Therefore the chance to get at least one is 1 – 0,366 = 0,634

Devata.6589:

If you think the chance would be less then 50% at a 100 times where it drops 1/100 then you have a problem with math. At 100 tries it would be close to 100 but will never be 100.

Actually, you both are wrong. At 1% chance of item dropping, the chance to not get it within 100 tries is about 37% (36.6something). So, the chance to get it is higher than 50%, but nowhere close to 100%.

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

If you think the chance would be less then 50% at a 100 times where it drops 1/100 then you have a problem with math. At 100 tries it would be close to 100 but will never be 100.

Actually, you both are wrong. At 1% chance of item dropping, the chance to not get it within 100 tries is about 37% (36.6something). So, the chance to get it is higher than 50%, but nowhere close to 100%.

I did mean closer. Did not do the math myself. Are you however sure it’s 37% to not get it.

Anyway the exact numbers aren’t even what it is about. All I was saying is that on average a drop would take you x hours and grinding gold to buy it would then also take you about x hours.

Devata.6589:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

If you think the chance would be less then 50% at a 100 times where it drops 1/100 then you have a problem with math. At 100 tries it would be close to 100 but will never be 100.

Actually, you both are wrong. At 1% chance of item dropping, the chance to not get it within 100 tries is about 37% (36.6something). So, the chance to get it is higher than 50%, but nowhere close to 100%.

I did mean closer. Did not do the math myself. Are you however sure it’s 37% to not get it.

Anyway the exact numbers aren’t even what it is about. All I was saying is that on average a drop would take you x hours and grinding gold to buy it would then also take you about x hours.

What you forget is that 1/100 means 2/200 .. so if Lucky Guy gets his drop on the first try that means 1/199 now for Unlucky Guy aka me

Devata.6589:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

If you think the chance would be less then 50% at a 100 times where it drops 1/100 then you have a problem with math. At 100 tries it would be close to 100 but will never be 100.

Actually, you both are wrong. At 1% chance of item dropping, the chance to not get it within 100 tries is about 37% (36.6something). So, the chance to get it is higher than 50%, but nowhere close to 100%.

I did mean closer. Did not do the math myself. Are you however sure it’s 37% to not get it.

Anyway the exact numbers aren’t even what it is about. All I was saying is that on average a drop would take you x hours and grinding gold to buy it would then also take you about x hours.

And my point is that those X hours have value, and they’re better spent on doing something you find fun in itself than something you’re not having fun doing in preparation of getting what you want and waiting until then to have fun.

Beldin.5498:

Devata.6589:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

If you think the chance would be less then 50% at a 100 times where it drops 1/100 then you have a problem with math. At 100 tries it would be close to 100 but will never be 100.

Actually, you both are wrong. At 1% chance of item dropping, the chance to not get it within 100 tries is about 37% (36.6something). So, the chance to get it is higher than 50%, but nowhere close to 100%.

I did mean closer. Did not do the math myself. Are you however sure it’s 37% to not get it.

Anyway the exact numbers aren’t even what it is about. All I was saying is that on average a drop would take you x hours and grinding gold to buy it would then also take you about x hours.

What you forget is that 1/100 means 2/200 .. so if Lucky Guy gets his drop on the first try that means 1/199 now for Unlucky Guy aka me

Lucky and unlucky guys don’t exist. It’s all math. Yeah somebody might have the luck on getting it on the first go and you might have bad luck getting it on try 120 but the next item you go for you might be in luck.

Sartharina.3542:

Devata.6589:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

If you think the chance would be less then 50% at a 100 times where it drops 1/100 then you have a problem with math. At 100 tries it would be close to 100 but will never be 100.

Actually, you both are wrong. At 1% chance of item dropping, the chance to not get it within 100 tries is about 37% (36.6something). So, the chance to get it is higher than 50%, but nowhere close to 100%.

I did mean closer. Did not do the math myself. Are you however sure it’s 37% to not get it.

Anyway the exact numbers aren’t even what it is about. All I was saying is that on average a drop would take you x hours and grinding gold to buy it would then also take you about x hours.

And my point is that those X hours have value, and they’re better spent on doing something you find fun in itself than something you’re not having fun doing in preparation of getting what you want and waiting until then to have fun.

Working towards that item (directly) can be what makes it fun for me. At least make it fun to do it multiple times. Because of that rush.. will it drop. And the item itself feels much more rewarding.