Guild Wars 2

Even though some other games offer this feature, would you like Anet to have hardcore (Permanent Death) as a NEW feature in this game for lvl 1 characters?

I do not think this would be created by Anet, cause of the whining for nearly every class, but it would be nice for some who wanted to create a hardcore character as a challenge.

Your thoughts?

Nice try, but nobody would do that.

I do like your humor.

DonQ.4056:

Nice try, but nobody would do that.

I do like your humor.

Why not?
I have done that several times in several games. Works quite well.

DonQ.4056:

Nice try, but nobody would do that.

I do like your humor.

Why not? If a person is serious about playing Hardcore, then they should be willing ta delete their character when it dies.

Me, I think this is a terrible idea; death is all too easy in the early levels of the game; and with the respawn rates sometimes being crazy (though I’ve noticed this fixed in many areas) and some bosses unbalanced you’re just askin’ to lose a character.

There is already a meter in the hero accomplishments tab which measures how many xp you’ve gone through without dying, I’d say trying to complete every level of that should be a challenge in itself.

Few people are honest, which is commendable to do this, but a whole many people just die and pay the repair fees on go onward like nothing ever happened.

To have implemented as a NEW feature, then you add realism to the game with possibility of new rewards for high levels achieved.

DonQ.4056:

Few people are honest, which is commendable to do this, but a whole many people just die and pay the repair fees on go onward like nothing ever happened.

To have implemented as a NEW feature, then you add realism to the game with possibility of new rewards for high levels achieved.

And who is hurt by that?
No one but themselves.
Most people don’t care if someone haven’t died or not.

About the realism: That would indeed work, if we actually DIED in the game. We never do however, we get defeated. Which is also why people can revive us but some NPCs that are supposed to actually die can’t be rezzed.

Also make it so that hardcore mode make a crippled player permantly crippled due to the injury. Each additional cripple reduce speed further, until you cant use your legs anymore.

Now run through Orr.

That would be great idea.

Similar in nature to the movie ‘Monty Python & the Holy Grail’.

DonQ.4056:

Few people are honest, which is commendable to do this, but a whole many people just die and pay the repair fees on go onward like nothing ever happened.

To have implemented as a NEW feature, then you add realism to the game with possibility of new rewards for high levels achieved.

Few people would even like to play this way. I’m fine with dying and repairing. IF you’re serious with perma death then you should be honest to your own challenge and delete the character after dying. Problem solved.
Did you hear about all the challenges people think up in single player games? Who do you think is responsible for following their rules? Players of course, because normally challenges are not modes that you select, but things that you think would be interesting to do.

lordkrall.7241:

About the realism: That would indeed work, if we actually DIED in the game. We never do however, we get defeated. Which is also why people can revive us but some NPCs that are supposed to actually die can’t be rezzed.

And that’s important to keep in mind for sake of Roleplay. Me, if Terra gets defeated and has ta respawn I rp that she activated her waypoint key in time to escape getting killed; if she’s down and someone can revive her, she just got smacked around real hard but some smelling salts, a bandage and some pain killing herbs and she can get back on her feet. (she always carries these things even if the person ressing her wouldn’ have em; she travels for a living after all)

Hardcore never seemed more realistic to me, it just seemed like a road to tears when your favorite character dies; especially in a combat based MMO.

Well on the plus side, not saying I do or do not endorse this type of play but to each their own, it would eliminate a lot of the garbage items (rare tier or below) because few would waste the gold on a character like that (learned this the hard way after many years of HC diablo 2 playing)

I play hardcore alot in other games…

You do not know real pain and loss in a game until you have lost your max level character that you have played for 500 hrs+ that had loads of awesome gear…

Dieing is meaningless in GW2…I don’t care if I die in GW2…indeed I have a character who I am hoping will reach 10,000 deaths soon, I will post it on the forum when I do…

A lot of games that I would have stopped playing a long time before, I still play just because I can play hardcore…you really, really care about your character and avoiding death at all costs…indeed any good session is one one where you live to play another day…

Hardcore in GW2 would be very difficult to do really, often the new content is OP and will kill anyone no matter how skilful a player you are, also the games full of bugs that can kill you as well…so sadly hardcore won’t work in GW2…

DonQ.4056:

Nice try, but nobody would do that.

I do like your humor.

I’ve done it.

Perm death won’t work..ever.Who plays for several hundred hours to see their char die and having to start allover ? A handfull of people would,exactly.The rest of the people would just drop out of the game and go find something worthwile to do.Permdeath in an mmo is terrible,look up the few mmo’s that did,and saw their playerbase drain.

Caedmon.6798:

Perm death won’t work..ever.Who plays for several hundred hours to see their char die and having to start allover ? A handfull of people would,exactly.The rest of the people would just drop out of the game and go find something worthwile to do.Permdeath in an mmo is terrible,look up the few mmo’s that did,and saw their playerbase drain.

Unless, like me, you’re not good enough to get your character to several hundred hours without dying, lol

Caedmon.6798:

Perm death won’t work..ever.Who plays for several hundred hours to see their char die and having to start allover ? A handfull of people would,exactly.The rest of the people would just drop out of the game and go find something worthwile to do.Permdeath in an mmo is terrible,look up the few mmo’s that did,and saw their playerbase drain.

The whole thing here is I think several people are overlooking is that this would be an optional feature to choose when you create a character like in other games (at least I think that’s what the OP was getting at) so it’s not as if all characters are hardcore, just the ones that people create as such so no one is being forced into playing this way its just for the niche community that enjoy this particular activity.

also as mentioned previously, not just you but most people don’t have the skill or lack of lag (properly placed lagbomb by your server or computer can easily wipe the most talented player out) to make it hundreds of hours so it really appeals to people looking for a challenge that enjoy the lower level areas as well.

Another suggestion to add to this particular idea, it would give another good excuse for an additional leaderboard too for the hardcore players possibly sorted via experience points or % world completion or a system using both together to form a point system.

In any case, I don’t see much drawback to putting something like this in, as I said earlier as well it would remove a lot of the garbage (blue-rare low-midlevel skins) from the tp from people outfitting their HC characters and give those people who want an additional challenge something else to do considering the only real endgame here is making your character look as shiny as possible (which I’m not complaining about because that’s exactly what I personally look for in a game as I don’t do a lot of dungeon grinding or what have you.) which doesn’t appeal to a fairly moderate % of the playerbase of which I believe this would proabably appeal to more.

I admit I have deleted my character several times because I died …

I made a goal for myself not to die until after I became level 80. It’s so exciting because I feel like there’s something at stake and I have to be careful all the time and not do dumb things.

I wouldn’t play some sort of mode where you died forever though! After level 80 in dungeons and stuff it’s hard not to die when you have to depend on other people.

Magnus Steelgrave.6580 – Well said

It’s not for everyone, just for those who want something different.

True, some people would drop out with permanent death, but they would also drop out of anything else that the game didn’t offer to their expectations just like any other typical MMO.

Gotta love people spouting out whiners.
On topic it is impossible to regulate even if they put a toggle in game. Craft to 80, stay in 1-15 zone to 80, party up to 80. Would give an almost 100% guaranteed never deleted using what you want.
Use the option suggested.

hmm i dont think Hardcore would suit this game at all, no harm in having the option however all you would get on the hardcore forums is;

1) lag killed me
2) lag killed me
3) lag killed me
4) i was not even standing in that
5) this boss is impossible, please nerf (where elsewhere in normal mode it is fine)
6) lag killed me
7) Anets server restart, patching killed me
8) you killed hardcore with this lag
9) you killed hardcore with this lag
10) i wasted all my time on this mode to be killed by lag, wtf, restore my characeter.
11) enable character move to a normal realm?

seen it all before.

DonQ.4056:

Magnus Steelgrave.6580 – Well said

It’s not for everyone, just for those who want something different.

True, some people would drop out with permanent death, but they would also drop out of anything else that the game didn’t offer to their expectations just like any other typical MMO.

actually if perma death was the only choice people that are defending this game right now would drop out as well.
You know how many times I get stun locked by enemies in Orr? OR how many times you can die in high level fractals, CoE and Arah if the team is not proper? Instead of running away and retrying my friends would have to be all like “Oh well, we’ll wait for you for 60 hours till you level up a new toon while near dying and playing non stop”. I would give up. I would just go and play some other MMO with similar mechanics to Guild Wars 2. There’s 3 MMOs in total that I play at the moment. Switching this one out if something this ridiculous was implemented would be very kitten easy. Especially having in mind that the game can kill you by cheating – leap abilities not stopping on enemies and throwing you off cliffs, Orr having literal holes in its map where you just suddenly fall trough the map and die.

Melis.9687:

I admit I have deleted my character several times because I died …

I made a goal for myself not to die until after I became level 80. It’s so exciting because I feel like there’s something at stake and I have to be careful all the time and not do dumb things.

I like that idea, I might start doing that once I get my roommates playing while they’re leveling their first characters. Should give me something to do with em for a while while they mess around.

Mirta.5029:

DonQ.4056:

Magnus Steelgrave.6580 – Well said

It’s not for everyone, just for those who want something different.

True, some people would drop out with permanent death, but they would also drop out of anything else that the game didn’t offer to their expectations just like any other typical MMO.

actually if perma death was the only choice people that are defending this game right now would drop out as well.

No one is suggesting perma death as the only choice… just for hardcore characters, which is totally different from normal characters who can go right ahead and die all they want. Again it’s a challenge for those who already know what they’re buying into.

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

Mirta.5029:

DonQ.4056:

Magnus Steelgrave.6580 – Well said

It’s not for everyone, just for those who want something different.

True, some people would drop out with permanent death, but they would also drop out of anything else that the game didn’t offer to their expectations just like any other typical MMO.

actually if perma death was the only choice people that are defending this game right now would drop out as well.

No one is suggesting perma death as the only choice… just for hardcore characters, which is totally different from normal characters who can go right ahead and die all they want. Again it’s a challenge for those who already know what they’re buying into.

then what prevents them from challenging themselves and deleting the characters once they die just once?

DrixTrix.7168:

hmm i dont think Hardcore would suit this game at all, no harm in having the option however all you would get on the hardcore forums is;

1) lag killed me
2) lag killed me
3) lag killed me
4) i was not even standing in that
5) this boss is impossible, please nerf (where elsewhere in normal mode it is fine)
6) lag killed me
7) Anets server restart, patching killed me
8) you killed hardcore with this lag
9) you killed hardcore with this lag
10) i wasted all my time on this mode to be killed by lag, wtf, restore my characeter.
11) enable character move to a normal realm?

seen it all before.

I agree there would probably be some rage, most people from my experience with hardcore know what they’re getting themselves into and are fairly experienced already, and with the lack of PK’s in this game really all you have as an excuse for your poor gameplay is lag, and if you lag… you shouldn’t be, in a serious way, playing hardcore to begin with.. which may come off as a little douchy to say but you SERIOUSLY cannot kitten about dying while lagging on a hardcore character when you know its going to happen eventually… If you lag while playing already then you shouldn’t make the choice to play hardcore until you can hammer out your lag issues. That’s just common sense.

Note: just wanted to say this little rant was in no way shape or form directed towards you, but preemptively toward the bunch you were describing in your response earlier.

Mirta.5029:

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

Mirta.5029:

DonQ.4056:

Magnus Steelgrave.6580 – Well said

It’s not for everyone, just for those who want something different.

True, some people would drop out with permanent death, but they would also drop out of anything else that the game didn’t offer to their expectations just like any other typical MMO.

actually if perma death was the only choice people that are defending this game right now would drop out as well.

No one is suggesting perma death as the only choice… just for hardcore characters, which is totally different from normal characters who can go right ahead and die all they want. Again it’s a challenge for those who already know what they’re buying into.

then what prevents them from challenging themselves and deleting the characters once they die just once?

Because most players aren’t honorable enough to live by that… if they make it that far they’re way more likely to just take the easy way out and continue because of the work they’ve already put in. This stipulation being added is a safeguard to keep you in line as to your intentions for your character.

I commend you on what your trying to do as well Magnus Steelgrave.6580

Tough crowd to please.

DonQ.4056:

I commend you on what your trying to do as well Magnus Steelgrave.6580

Tough crowd to please.

Thanks, and it’s never really easy to please the majority when the change is for a minority even if it doesn’t effect anything they’re doing personally. If it doesn’t effect the way the way everyone plays and it benefits the community, even if it isn’t for the majority, I’m generally on board to support it. I’m all for variety

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

Because most players aren’t honorable enough to live by that… if they make it that far they’re way more likely to just take the easy way out and continue because of the work they’ve already put in. This stipulation being added is a safeguard to keep you in line as to your intentions for your character.

but isn’t that their own problem?
You do challenges to make your own game more interesting, if you fail a challenge because you decide to lie to yourself you’re only ruining your own fun.

Mirta.5029:

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

Because most players aren’t honorable enough to live by that… if they make it that far they’re way more likely to just take the easy way out and continue because of the work they’ve already put in. This stipulation being added is a safeguard to keep you in line as to your intentions for your character.

but isn’t that their own problem?
You do challenges to make your own game more interesting, if you fail a challenge because you decide to lie to yourself you’re only ruining your own fun.

That is their problem, but what I don’t understand is why you’re so opposed to it as it doesn’t effect quite literally anything you’re doing while you play and would make a lot of people happy. Plus making this organized can also lead to competitiveness between hardcore players just as there is on the current leaderboards leading some people who would have put the game down to continue playing.

Anet could implement additional rewards for HC as a feature.

Anet could create a separate server for just HC community. Albeit it would be small population, but it would be there as an option.

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

That is their problem, but what I don’t understand is why you’re so opposed to it as it doesn’t effect quite literally anything you’re doing while you play and would make a lot of people happy. Plus making this organized can also lead to competitiveness between hardcore players just as there is on the current leaderboards leading some people who would have put the game down to continue playing.

because it’s extra work and lots of re-coding to do. Not to mention extra servers to host players of such difficulty. And if we would get any difference in servers then I would like to see open world pvp servers first if anything.
It’s also weird to ask them to do this when it can be done by the player on their own.

Wouldn’t this result in people not running dungeons or wvw or doing any pvp at all? Even the best players I’ve played with go down, sometimes often. It’s close to unavoidable, imo.

Most people will know that and avoid content that they aren’t reasonably sure that they have a chance to do without dying at all.

And imagine the rage if you were one of these players and you got downed but no one in your group revived you in time.

Ehh… the bosses with instagib skills and plummeting to your death on jumping puzzles give me the impression that dying is just a natural part of the game instead of a big ‘’YOU LOSE’’ like in certain other games.

Not that I’m against it, though. Nothing wrong with some variety for those who want it (as long as hardcore characters don’t have higher stats or something). I just really doubt something like this would be developed. But hey, if you’re really that hardcore then you don’t need Arenanet to help you

Well – it’s not for everyone & to no surprise the lack of people who commend it.

several valid points here.. as for the server issue.. tbh I think they should be kept on the same servers as normal players if possible.. if you’re downed and no one revived you, more fun for the trolls.. see everyone benefits.. people can make fun of the person who chose to do the content. Another thing people should be expecting.

Yes it will lead to some people not doing certain content… I really don’t see the issue with this considering I’m suggesting hardcore/(for the sake of arguement from now one) softcore characters be on the same server. For those having issues finding dungeon groups as a hardcore player… switch to softcore if you REALLY need to do it and cant… tough luck there… nothing in the game is completely optimal. And as for being downed, tbh I think being downed as a hardcore character should equate death so thats a non issue.. but thats just my opinion.

Also I agree that if you’re really that hardcore then you shouldn’t need anet to help you… I totally agree with that… But some people with big mouths think they are (a few I know personally), and it entertains me so much to see those people brought back down to earth when they find out they’re not as good as they thought they were haha

Yep – people can create (4) normal characters and (1) HC (optional).

The game doesn’t change, it’s just an added element for fun.

I like this idea… would be really fun to see how many could get their HC characters to 80 and beyond.

Thanks Slowburn.5319 & Magnus Steelgrave.6580.

Yes – it would be nice.

I’m waiting for Anet to make a comment, but…..

DonQ.4056:

Thanks Slowburn.5319 & Magnus Steelgrave.6580.

Yes – it would be nice.

I’m waiting for Anet to make a comment, but…..

topics with 4000 views and plenty of agrees don’t get looked into sometimes, due to a lack of time. All I’m saying is don’t get your expectations too high.

Only a minority of players would be interested but probably enough to have 1 dedicated hardcore only server in Europe and in the US…

It would be PvE hardcore only, its impossible not to die in PvP or WvW…

A hardcore GW2 would have its own unique economy and gameplay style, with a lot of builds designed to avoid death…

I played in guild on EQ2 called “Permadeath”. Basically, if you died…you deleted that character and rolled another. Honor system. Most of us were leveling several alts concurrently. Healing was allowed, but no rezzing once dead.

Different game mechanics there utilizing the trinity style play. But after many deaths…the best parties consisted of ranged / dps and healers.

Death comes pretty easily and permadeath really changed group tactics. Players become extremely cautious and plan/talk about every encounter before engaging. You disengage a lot…and run, if need be. Not unlike real life.

It was fun for awhile…but eventually got old. Losing a high level toon was frustrating. People began dropping out and soon there just wasn’t enough of us to continue. Was a cool experiment though.

I suspect a permadeath game would never hold a longtime interest for most people. Except for a core group of masochists.

Meglobob.8620:

Only a minority of players would be interested but probably enough to have 1 dedicated hardcore only server in Europe and in the US…

It would be PvE hardcore only, its impossible not to die in PvP or WvW…

A hardcore GW2 would have its own unique economy and gameplay style, with a lot of builds designed to avoid death…

And people scream now about wasted resources to temp content. Can’t imagine the noise from setting up dedicated servers for this.

Yea – the term would be major whiners.

There is feeling you get once to click on HC character and try to lvl it. Always unsure when death will come, but the intensity is always there. As Magnus Steelgrave.6580 mentioned before – the HC players would play on the same servers for normal players, which I agree with now (less trolling).

Raf.1078 – You make a couple of good comments, which I like. Players do engage more often and talk about tactics for every encounter and yes there would be a lot more runners. That would make the game even more engaging to a degree.

I never expected Anet to really respond as this was only a suggestion from the start.

DonQ.4056:

There is feeling you get once to click on HC character and try to lvl it. Always unsure when death will come, but the intensity is always there. As Magnus Steelgrave.6580 mentioned before – the HC players would play on the same servers for normal players, which I agree with now (less trolling).

Imagine running a dungeon with a mixed group. The leader has perma death on. You all run the dungeon. Leader dies, his character is deleted, everyone else gets booted. Or you’re stuck without a certain amount of players. Mixed servers ain’t the best idea.

No reason it couldn’t be done here in GW2, Don. Why have a special server when all it takes is some modicum of integrity among the participants? Make a non-representing guild on (insert server name here) and meet up once or twice a week to PvE to our deaths.

Mirta.5029:

DonQ.4056:

There is feeling you get once to click on HC character and try to lvl it. Always unsure when death will come, but the intensity is always there. As Magnus Steelgrave.6580 mentioned before – the HC players would play on the same servers for normal players, which I agree with now (less trolling).

Imagine running a dungeon with a mixed group. The leader has perma death on. You all run the dungeon. Leader dies, his character is deleted, everyone else gets booted. Or you’re stuck without a certain amount of players. Mixed servers ain’t the best idea.

It less about completion of the dungeon, Mirta. Its about everyone getting through the dungeon alive…or not. The people left carry on with one less person until enough completion or fail.

The challenges have less to do with completion of any given task. Its about..can you do it without dying. Your mindset has to change….and , it will..if you do it long enough. We played for 6 or 7 months before most folks called it quits.

I welcome all comments as I don’t have the answers.

Thank you Raf.1078 & Mirta.5029 for you comments.

The idea is to build / bounce ideas from one another.

Lastly Mirta.5029 – The players running the dungeon would know if the leader was HC and hence either join or not join. It’s there choice.

DonQ.4056:

Lastly Mirta.5029 – The players running the dungeon would know if the leader was HC and hence either join or not join. It’s there choice.

if HC will be like a shown icon or something you’ll definitely end up with trolling and griefing. That way you would face less trolling in a specified HC server.

Raf.1078:

It less about completion of the dungeon, Mirta. Its about everyone getting through the dungeon alive…or not. The people left carry on with one less person until enough completion or fail.

The challenges have less to do with completion of any given task. Its about..can you do it without dying. Your mindset has to change….and , it will..if you do it long enough. We played for 6 or 7 months before most folks called it quits.

if modes were mixed in all servers normal players will not have the same mindset as hardcore players, therefore they wouldn’t see it as “let’s get trough this dungeon alive”, they would see it as “let’s complete this dungeon as we normally do”, meaning that HC players would face more danger and likely die. Now if that player ended up being the party leader what we would see would be lots of hate towards HC players because “we got kicked because that dude died. I don’t like HC players! You made me waste my time!” kind of mindset. So then the problem is – how do you separate players? Leave players to tell that if they feel like it? Most wouldn’t because they would be afraid. Add an icon? Well then it would be very easy to grief HC players by leading them into situations specifically meant to kill you in the dungeon. Meaning that the only way it would be fair is if ALL of them were HC or normal. Meaning that separate servers make more sense.