Guild Wars 2

oke i think its time to close this thread anyway to toxic going on so plz Anet devs CLOSE THIS STUPID THREAD and let ppl play how they want =)

nathan goossen.9546:

oke i think its time to close this thread anyway to toxic going on so plz Anet devs CLOSE THIS STUPID THREAD and let ppl play how they want =)

Some of us are playing how we want, having a interesting forum discussion. Better endgame then standing in LA.

Dante.1763:

Okay by your example i would not be a casual, of those three the only thing i do is not run the Meta builds.(which ive never noticed a decrease in my performance). I the proper armors and such and know almost all the encounters in the game, so by your example, i wouldnt be a casual then?

By the one above you however, on any given day but the weekend i would be considered a casual.

It have nothing to do with your playtime. If hardcore player fail in some encounter he will brace himself and do everything he can to overcome that dificulty. If casual player fails in encounter he goes to forum asking for nerf and wait till it happen or leave game with cry.

Rozbuska.5263:

Dante.1763:

By the one above you however, on any given day but the weekend i would be considered a casual.

It have nothing to do with your playtime. If hardcore player fail in some encounter he will brace himself and do everything he can to overcome that dificulty. If casual player fails in encounter he goes to forum asking for nerf and wait till it happen or leave game with cry.

Not all casuals run to the forum when they fail at something.

Some may try it to see just how too hard it is for them. And then move on to areas that are better suited for them happy that those who enjoy difficult content finally got some, or keep trying over and over again to try to beat it. Not all casuals demand super easy content or are unhappy when content that’s too hard for them comes out.

NocturnalsGuardian.8924:

I really cannot wait for the Devs to see THIS one!

Let’s just remind ourselves exactly what happened with the game community of Guild Wars (The Original Game…)!

1. Devs created a lovely nice environment for all to enjoy, develop and conquer TOGETHER;
2. Devs created such a lovely dungeon system as the players requested so that players could come TOGETHER to conquer the deepest of Tyria’s tests;
3. The players ruined EVERYTHING.

It’s like having a god create everything for you.. then you tiddle all over it.
Claiming NOT to include “pugging” for the raids is absolutely diabolical and also claiming that you are some-what elite compared to “casuals” like I cannot see your titles all over the news on how important you are?

Answer to your question, “casual” gamers become just as good as these so called “hardcore” players, although, as I’ve witnessed over a million (LITERALLY) times players insist on insulting “casual” players, not including them in group dungeons that clearly state “Recommended level 35” and begin to think they can take the future group activities away from them?

DIABOLICAL.

The players do not run this game, you pay for it but you do NOT run other people’s gaming experience leave that to the Game Devs. This is a community created for togetherness not because players have different skill levels lets not include them in the new stuff or even current stuff because I have 20K achievement points and they only have 2K, they’re not good enough for my parties.

It’s really simple. Lets start basic. A game is played for fun. Now some people have fun just running a dungeon or some other easy content, and some people enjoy a challenge/doing stuff as fast as possible. GW2 currently lacks the second option. Adding a few raids would fix this problem and draw in a lot of people that like a challenge. And for the people that don’t like a challenge, they can just not run the challenging group content. And for the people that don’t like easy content, they can just not do that. The people that want to dungeons fast can do that. And the people that don’t don’t have to. They can get 4 other party members who have fun in similar ways and have fun. The problem is some people refuse to do that. Some people join zerk only groups not wearing zerk. And some people join all welcome groups and complaining etc when it isn’t fast. Of course there will always be jerks on both sides that insult each other. Thinking they represent the majority of the “casual” or “hardcore” community is nothing but plain stupid. No one is taking away any group activities away from anyone,you just gotta group with like-minded people.

Sweet adorable kittens guys! Just stop, pause please for a moment.

…We calm? Good, let’s talk for a moment.

For the past 3 years since launch, GW2 has broken many typical standards that were in MMOs. Questing, Resources, Loot/Tagging and even the holy Trinity have been more or less revamped towards one goal: Cooperation. Every single PvE activity we do, it is non-competitive, we work together towards it.

Many, many things at launch were difficult when this game launched. Dungeons were back then Arenanet’s original inception of end-game PvE content. Actually, a lot has changed since then, but the overall focus towards creating an environment to foster a friendly community rather than a selfish one continues to exist even now!

Raiding will NOT break any of this down. This panic is based on pure speculation, Raiding in GW2 should not be expected to follow the same principles we ALL fear.
- Loot is not competitive, we aren’t rolling on the same pieces.
- Attunements will not be there, those were…for a lack of a better term, absolute kitten and even former Raiders like myself admit it. What a load of bullocks.
- ANYONE can go into raids. From fresh new players to hardened veterans, bring 9 other friends or strangers it doesn’t matter! We all want the same thing!

…My point being, this game has done so much for every kind of player out there. Yes, there will be players that vehemently disagree with, or rather stick to whatever elitist moral compass they want. Who cares.

Raids are there as group content for everyone to participate in, to fail together, to win together, to cheer as someone gets something they really needed. To FINALLY take down that fiend who bars your way. There is no need to burn bridges, forge them instead. Raids are a chance for you and your allies to grow as players.

As a former top 1000 NA Off-Tank from Pre-BC WoW to End of WotLK, I have seen so much of what I haven’t seen in GW2 yet. However there has been a lingering…want for something like a Raid in GW2, with its combat that I absolutely adore. I may come off a bit sarcastic in game, but I am always willing to lend a helping hand (Ambient people who come to revive me from down-state helps with the humility). Nothing would make me more happy than to hear tales of victory from players who have never raided once in their gaming careers finally take down a boss that has troubled them so. The experience, and emotions are so just in that regard.

Thank you for taking your time to read my appeal to you all.

Seera.5916:

Not all casuals run to the forum when they fail at something.

Some may try it to see just how too hard it is for them. And then move on to areas that are better suited for them happy that those who enjoy difficult content finally got some, or keep trying over and over again to try to beat it. Not all casuals demand super easy content or are unhappy when content that’s too hard for them comes out.

I know not all ofc. But sadly majority do.

Frederica.9237:

I was checking out some topics regarding raiding on Reddit when I came across something unbelievable.

Get a load of this post :

“Everyone, we gotta send Anet a message.

Make sure you post on the official forums and send Anet lots of emails. Tell them that no raid in Guild Wars 2 should ever be puggable.

Real players like us deserve our bragging rights and legendary armor.

Casuals should never be allowed to clear a raid. Say no to PUGs. Lets do this people!!"

WTF, seriously?? Check it out yourselves. This is the topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3iy258/guild_wars_2_raiding_has_to_be_hard_duh_why_and/

The raids had better be puggable . To hell with your “bragging rights”.

This is amusingly absurd – not only are the demands WAY out there in the extreme ( Anet will never create content that the vast majority of their player base will at least be able to attempt) but their grasp of game development is very weak.
To think that just a month and a half before release such major decisions or changes can be made is – wow.

The fate of raids – how hard they would be and how they wanted people to perform and deal with them was decided months if not even a year ago.

Sicarius.4639:

Think we can all agree all classes are not made equal, therefore if this content is the hardest content in the game, some classes may get left out.

Anet won’t want that, therefore it will accommodate the lowest common denominator, either everyone [classes] can do it or only some [classes].

Undoubtedly some classes will have a harder time than others. There isn’t much that can be done about that. Even with a brilliant balancing team, some classes are always gonna be better at doing challenging stuff than others. But that’s no reasen to make content easy. Winning the ESL is hard and thus only certain classes are taken, does that mean that shouldn’t exist? I feel with a few balance changes all classes could be used in a raid, presuming all classes won’t already be able to do the raid.

I’m a bit put off by the OP’s setting up the hardcore against the casuals. It doesn’t have to be that way. What is an elite or hardcore player? It is someone with a high skill level and knowledge of the game. Personally I want as many of those around as possible. In every game I’ve played it is the elite players (I’m not one of them) who offer the most to the community. This is done in terms of theorycrafting around classes, builds and gear, tactics for fights that they have blazed the trail on, etc. They generally share the knowledge they acquired and I’m thankful for their contribution.

The problem is not players with a high skill level; the problem is that we humans are broken in some fundamental ways and have the capacity to do evil great and small. Please don’t divide the community in this way. It doesn’t solve a single problem.

But how about the challenge playing with players with different playstyle and standing-ground?

I don’t really care what some random person or group requests on Reddit. ANet has never implemented content just because there was a protest (case in point: Occupy SAB had absolutely zero impact — an official dev response to why we didn’t see SAB return didn’t happen until much later).

I also find it amusing that so many people are already talking about how bad (or how good) the raids will be…without actually playing them. We really don’t have any idea of how hard, how casual-friendly, how hard-core friendly, or really much of anything about GW2 raids.

It’s all well and good to try to keep ANet on its toes about potential pitfalls. I can’t imagine that they care about whether people with preconceived notions want to insist that everyone else conceive the same things.

Legendary armor isn’t even that good unless you have a way to switch runes without spending 250 gems each time for each piece. I don’t know about you guys but in most cases runes need to change with builds often more than armor traits and patches can make them obsolete from one day to the next.

Markesh.7540:

Legendary armor isn’t even that good unless you have a way to switch runes without spending 250 gems each time for each piece. I don’t know about you guys but in most cases runes need to change with builds often more than armor traits and patches can make them obsolete from one day to the next.

agreed, there is no point in stat swapping if you can’t save multiple runes to the gear.

Rozbuska.5263:

Seera.5916:

Not all casuals run to the forum when they fail at something.

Some may try it to see just how too hard it is for them. And then move on to areas that are better suited for them happy that those who enjoy difficult content finally got some, or keep trying over and over again to try to beat it. Not all casuals demand super easy content or are unhappy when content that’s too hard for them comes out.

I know not all ofc. But sadly majority do.

No, the majority of casual players don’t post on the forums at all. If they did, I assure you this place would be insanely hectic.

True hardcores can PUG and win. Wanna-be hardcores need pre-engineered groups that skip most content to win without much challenge. If you can’t PUG and win with low levels then you’re not that good.

Frederica.9237:

I was checking out some topics regarding raiding on Reddit when I came across something unbelievable.

Get a load of this post :

“Everyone, we gotta send Anet a message.

Make sure you post on the official forums and send Anet lots of emails. Tell them that no raid in Guild Wars 2 should ever be puggable.

Real players like us deserve our bragging rights and legendary armor.

Casuals should never be allowed to clear a raid. Say no to PUGs. Lets do this people!!"

WTF, seriously?? Check it out yourselves. This is the topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3iy258/guild_wars_2_raiding_has_to_be_hard_duh_why_and/

The raids had better be puggable . To hell with your “bragging rights”.

Well that thread writer is very rude. BUT, he has a slight point. If content is so easy that people can just pug it then that really is not challenging group content. Quite frankly there should probably be a hard mode to resolve this. But I don’t mean hard mode like heroic vs normal raids in WoW. I mean hard mode versions of fights more equivalent to Ulduar during WotLK. I think that would be a good way to keep things inclusive for more casual players, while still allowing more hardcore players to get their harder content.

I doubt Ascended will be “required” by anything ever in this game, and I deem that design decision wise. Skill and learning events/instances will always trump gear in GW2. Difficult content must not necessarily mean that BIS gear is “required” (barring previous, specific team organization, of course.)

(The above stated as it concerns some statements read throughout this thread. My actual hopes is that they make it so some gear stat combos that are rarely thought of as practical for PvE are more attractive after HoT.)

As for this thread, the elitist, pseudo-competitive raid player is to be ignored (“pseudo”, because this is a game and most people won’t care about his/her proven “skills”), and I am sure-or at the very least hopeful-ANet will pay them no mind, knowing that they do not want to attract such player toxicity to their game. I was a bit alarmed when they specified the term “content for our more skilled players” (forgot precise wording), but I do not think they mean that new “raid” content should be the sole realm of a few jerks.

Rozbuska.5263:

Dante.1763:

First define casual, please? Like, im a casual player by my definition, i dont play the game everyday, and i dont play for long when i do. But heres the thing, im really good at PVE stuff which is what raids are, beat Liadri after learning it, and trying many times(Which is how raids should be, they should be hard, but they should be doable to those that learn them). I suck at PVP, or any form of competitive fighting or scenarios. So am i casual? What is a casual?

In case of pve its simple do define casual player:
- dont have proper gear
- dont have proper build
- dont know encounters

Basicly everyone who told you stuff like “I play this game as I want” is consider as casual. I dont wanna say its bad thing to be casual its perfectly fine.

That’s certainly what “casual” has come to mean in gaming communities, it’s sad though because it creates a lot of confusion. You can play your games casually and still be good, games have gotten a lot more casual in the sense of not requiring as much time investment, neither of these statements use “casual” in that same sense of “bad” necessarily. Even old games had a lot of easy content for less skilled players to play with, even if they were hardcore and bad at max level there were zones where they could do their thing easily. Bad/good Casual/hardcore, but unfortunately it’s taken on a connotation in gaming (which developed naturally and rightfully so at the time, but it’s still unfortunate looking back).

I do hope raids aren’t the 4-5 hour requirements they were back when I was doing it in old games, I just don’t have that in me anymore but I do want a challenge when I play.

The problem is that raiders just don’t want “hard content”. They want exclusive rewards so that everyone can be reminded just how skillful they are. Pretty pathetic to seek self-esteem from a video game. Look at me! Look at me!

Dashingsteel.3410:

The problem is that raiders just don’t want “hard content”. They want exclusive rewards so that everyone can be reminded just how skillful they are. Pretty pathetic to seek self-esteem from a video game. Look at me! Look at me!

Yeah, I get that feeling too.

Look at this brilliant comment from that same dude:

“The best looking stuff should only be available to raiders. Casuals should not ever be able to obtain them.

I miss the days of Vanilla WoW. Having a full set of Tier 3 while the casuals struggled to even PuG MC was the best thing ever. The casuals knew their place back then, they knew that only the best could clear Naxxramas.

If casuals succeed in clearing the raids of GW2 , I will quit the game."

I’ve never facepalmed so hard…….

Frederica.9237:

Look at this brilliant comment from that same dude:

“The best looking stuff should only be available to raiders. Casuals should not ever be able to obtain them.

I miss the days of Vanilla WoW. Having a full set of Tier 3 while the casuals struggled to even PuG MC was the best thing ever. The casuals knew their place back then, they knew that only the best could clear Naxxramas.

If casuals succeed in clearing the raids of GW2 , I will quit the game."

I’ve never facepalmed so hard…….

Wow…that’s really awful. Maybe he’s a troll? That’s just a very silly attitude to have.

I wouldnt pay much attention to that reddit poster. He is a joke as well as the rest of the players in this game that label themselves as pro or an elitist.

Gw2 is not difficult in any way and all the content can easily be completed by anyone. Unfortunately the players like the one who created the reddit post get upset about it. It’s what creates the false meta’s for pve, the reason players have to try and boast about their epic “skills” , and the reason people create these false accusations against casual players.

I’m highly doubt his reddit post is going to have any effect on Anets plans for raids.

I really hoped he was trolling.I didn’t want to believe such people existed but when I looked at his comment history I saw that he was spouting such drivel even before raids were announced.

This was made a month before raids were announced:

“We really need some form of segregation in this game. Too many filthy casuals. Just look at posts in this topic. Why are you losers even playing this game?

Please Anet, give us some exclusive stuff to set us apart from the rabble. We need hard raids and some heroic dungeons."

His wishes are finally being fulfilled and he doesn’t want casuals beating raids cuz “exclusive stuff”.

Dante.1763:

First define casual, please? Like, im a casual player by my definition, i dont play the game everyday, and i dont play for long when i do. But heres the thing, im really good at PVE stuff which is what raids are, beat Liadri after learning it, and trying many times(Which is how raids should be, they should be hard, but they should be doable to those that learn them). I suck at PVP, or any form of competitive fighting or scenarios. So am i casual? What is a casual?

You’re posting on this forum thus you’re not a casual.

rotten.9753:

Dante.1763:

First define casual, please? Like, im a casual player by my definition, i dont play the game everyday, and i dont play for long when i do. But heres the thing, im really good at PVE stuff which is what raids are, beat Liadri after learning it, and trying many times(Which is how raids should be, they should be hard, but they should be doable to those that learn them). I suck at PVP, or any form of competitive fighting or scenarios. So am i casual? What is a casual?

You’re posting on this forum thus you’re not a casual.

Casual and hardcore isn’t a black and white choice.

It’s a scale. Complicated by the fact that there are multiple definitions of casual. Some base it purely off a time played aspect. Others base it off of a purely what type of content you do and how well you stick to the meta. Others use a combination.

Forum users aren’t the most casual of players, but some players who are more casual than they are hardcore do use the forums.

rotten.9753:

You’re posting on this forum thus you’re not a casual.

I post on the forums of any game i put alot of time in. i was posting on the World of Tanks forums when i had a 45% WR and thought i was a god. So yea, casuals can post on the forums too.

Frederica.9237:

I really hoped he was trolling.I didn’t want to believe such people existed but when I looked at his comment history I saw that he was spouting such drivel even before raids were announced.

This was made a month before raids were announced:

“We really need some form of segregation in this game. Too many filthy casuals. Just look at posts in this topic. Why are you losers even playing this game?

Please Anet, give us some exclusive stuff to set us apart from the rabble. We need hard raids and some heroic dungeons."

His wishes are finally being fulfilled and he doesn’t want casuals beating raids cuz “exclusive stuff”.

The good news is that this person promised to “quit” as soon as he realizes the raids won’t be what he wants them to be. Let’s just hope he’s as “pro” at keeping his word than he supposedly is at MMO games.

Out of topic, what’s horrible is that some people actually think like this in real life applications as well. True elitism is just idiotic.

I don’t agree with the petition that we was quoted but if anet is calling this content challenging and it ends up being puggable then imo it isn’t really challenging

RoRo.8270:

I don’t agree with the petition that we was quoted but if anet is calling this content challenging and it ends up being puggable then imo it isn’t really challenging

Dunno, Fractals can be pugged, and im sure some people find the higher levels challenging still.

yeah. even if they don’t go for the full 1-50 range like fractals they could easily implement an adjustable scaling system (with proportionately increasing rewards) to satisfy the hardcore peeps but give competent pugs a chance.

This is a casual MMO. When will the WoW imports stop demanding ridiculous things? First it was a DPS Meter, then an inspect feature, then a duel feature. Get out!

Turgut.4397:

This is a casual MMO. When will the WoW imports stop demanding ridiculous things? First it was a DPS Meter, then an inspect feature, then a duel feature. Get out!

Exactly!

Why do they insist on making GW2 more “hardcore”?There are so many mmos out there that cater to them.

GW2 is one of the few quality mmos that is casual. Please don’t ruin it by making raids “hardcore” only.

Make raids puggable please. I don’t want to spend hours wiping while listening to some guy screaming 50 DKP Minus. I came to GW2 to escape all that.

Frederica.9237:

“Hardcore” folks dont want “casuals” pugging.

Some folks want raids so hard that only very few players can finish them. And some other folks (on the other extreme side) want raids so easy that they can be solo-ed.

So what?

I love this discussion as it is always the same. Or do I???

Problem of both groups is you boths do not see what is the solution.

1. Yes you have Casuals and more Fanatic players; Hardcore or Elitist whatever you call them…
2. Yes it’s good to finish stuff ASAP.
3. No it is not a challenge to make all meta builds for each engagement and use them and say I’m faster then a casual group, if you wouldn’t be you really, really need some practice. Trust me.
4. Yes It is a challenge to make all meta builds for each engagement and use them and make world records. See Reddit and some true speedrun meta. I cannot do it.
5. Yes it’s an achievement to go as fast as possible with a group with the builds they like, even if they are all meta zerk, AND it’s not worth bragging about unless you did get the World Record though.
6. Yes it will be slower allowing the use of any and all personal builds then just Meta-ing, and it will be more impressive, social and in the end rewarding (You’ll learn new things, really). Though l80 EXP can be as quick as l80 zerk meta…
7. Yes it will take people more skil to finish it doing it with groups with “non Meta builds”
8. Yes I hope people will need builds for SPECIFIC tasks. (CC, Conditions, Support, Healing, Simple DPS) and I hope this will add to mutual respect.
9. Yes, if you can SOLO 10 man CHALLENGING content the devs will have made some BIG mistakes.
10. Yes, if only 1% can finish it HoT will be the last expansion. I can guarantee it.

• Yes this discussion is starting to get very stale. HF Now, I’ll see you in the CGC :P

Frederica.9237:

Turgut.4397:

This is a casual MMO. When will the WoW imports stop demanding ridiculous things? First it was a DPS Meter, then an inspect feature, then a duel feature. Get out!

Exactly!

Why do they insist on making GW2 more “hardcore”?There are so many mmos out there that cater to them.

GW2 is one of the few quality mmos that is casual. Please don’t ruin it by making raids “hardcore” only.

Make raids puggable please. I don’t want to spend hours wiping while listening to some guy screaming 50 DKP Minus. I came to GW2 to escape all that.

They’ve been trying to up the difficulty for a long time. Being “hardcore” is one thing, being so easy that is doable by pressing 1 and F is another, both are horrible.

If you only press 1 and F, you are way to slow to be considered elitist or hardcore. You will be below newbie level… having the capacities of a lvl 80 and using those of a of a level 2 character. Think about it. Let it sink in.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

If you only press 1 and F, you are way to slow to be considered elitist or hardcore. You will be below newbie level… having the capacities of a lvl 80 and using those of a of a level 2 character. Think about it. Let it sink in.

And that’s a major problem with their challenging group content. Rest of the game is doable by pressing 1 and F while raids are going to require usage of your entire skillbar, there is little content that is in the middle.

There are plus sides to both pugs and experienced groups. Experienced groups you don’t have to try hard and they tend to be fast. You can feel comfortable that everyone knows what they are doing. In pugs, the lack of experience keeps you on your toes and everyone will respect you if and when you start carrying them. It also determines who is good from who is bad.

I personally do not care about pugs. If I end up being the one carrying everyone, it makes me feel good about myself and my abilities. The same is true for all MMOs I have played.

maddoctor.2738:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

If you only press 1 and F, you are way to slow to be considered elitist or hardcore. You will be below newbie level… having the capacities of a lvl 80 and using those of a of a level 2 character. Think about it. Let it sink in.

And that’s a major problem with their challenging group content. Rest of the game is doable by pressing 1 and F while raids are going to require usage of your entire skillbar, there is little content that is in the middle.

Interesting, i haven’t seen these 1 and F runs ever. On the videos they upload to youtube they usually use most of their skills and in specific order. Sometimes even coordinated to achieve certain effects.

serenke.4806:

maddoctor.2738:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

If you only press 1 and F, you are way to slow to be considered elitist or hardcore. You will be below newbie level… having the capacities of a lvl 80 and using those of a of a level 2 character. Think about it. Let it sink in.

And that’s a major problem with their challenging group content. Rest of the game is doable by pressing 1 and F while raids are going to require usage of your entire skillbar, there is little content that is in the middle.

Interesting, i haven’t seen these 1 and F runs ever. On the videos they upload to youtube they usually use most of their skills and in specific order. Sometimes even coordinated to achieve certain effects.

Not talking about dungeons. Maybe yes some dungeons/fractals are indeed the middle point

You should not worry about how much buttons press other players. I will tell you a secret – casuals play not worse than “pro-gamers”. They just have less time to play.

In WoW I have several raids – main raid (progress) and some for alts, where we sometimes took casuals from lfg channel. And that’s what I want to say – they played very well, despite they had low gearscore.

Not need to be a genius to understand the mechanics of classes in MMOs.
Many people don’t want to come to the game on schedule and spend 5-6-7 hours on wipes. Life is too short to waste it on such a heresy.

Puggable: Players get together without any coordination or optimised builds and just do what is necessary to clear the dungeon.

That should not be possible with raids. You can gather 9 other random people, but you need to plan out a strategy and need to optimize your builds.

Wuselknusel.4082:

Puggable: Players get together without any coordination or optimised builds and just do what is necessary to clear the dungeon.

That should not be possible with raids. You can gather 9 other random people, but you need to plan out a strategy and need to optimize your builds.

Luckily, I bet GW2 Raids won’t be like other MMO’s raids. Optimization will likely be ideal, but not “required” (hopefully just a more complex, “skilled” version of our current Dungeons.)

I do think the “Raid” term has been forever tarnished by other games, and that ANet is using it only as a reference point. Would suggest that anti-Raid people don’t get too alarmed by their addition, and that the “pro-raiders” don’t get too excited about them being clones of what they are used to in their other, “pro” games.

When I hear that “Raids are the ultimate challenge”, then I expect them to be challenging. I expect them to be challenging even when the most optimal teamcomps and strategies are found. I expect them to be challenging for the optimal group.

Zok.4956:

Frederica.9237:

“Hardcore” folks dont want “casuals” pugging.

Some folks want raids so hard that only very few players can finish them. And some other folks (on the other extreme side) want raids so easy that they can be solo-ed.

So what?

A lot of people play this game because there were no raids at all .. and they
are here to get away from games with that stuff and the kind of players that
are attracted from it.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/11/24/the-soapbox-six-reasons-mmos-should-abandon-raiding-part-1/

Frederica.9237:

I don’t want to spend hours wiping while listening to some guy screaming 50 DKP Minus.

Haha .. that really made me laugh

Oh .. and hello to my stalker NT.

Beldin.5498:

A lot of people play this game because there were no raids at all .. and they
are here to get away from games with that stuff and the kind of players that
are attracted from it.

There is a flaw with this mentality. GW2 isn’t the same as other games in the sense that the game isn’t developed around raiding, whereas others are. Now if Anet was switching development to where all or majority of content and endgame content was designed around raiding then you your point would be valid. However simply having a raid instance which is the minority of content isn’t the same.

The term “play as you want” gets thrown around, but at the same time shuns those who want to do raiding.

BrooksP.4318:

Beldin.5498:

A lot of people play this game because there were no raids at all .. and they
are here to get away from games with that stuff and the kind of players that
are attracted from it.

There is a flaw with this mentality. GW2 isn’t the same as other games in the sense that the game isn’t developed around raiding, whereas others are. Now if Anet was switching development to where all or majority of content and endgame content was designed around raiding then you your point would be valid. However simply having a raid instance which is the minority of content isn’t the same.

The term “play as you want” gets thrown around, but at the same time shuns those who want to do raiding.

The problem is not having a raid .. but starting to hide the best available armor
in game behind those raids. THAT exactly is the stuff i said goodbye to all those
raid games and played Champions Online for some years before GW2 came out.

And don’t start with Legendary is not better than ascended. Its a QoL feature at
least a lot of people wanted.

And in the end all the threads now also show again and again what i always said
that challenge aside .. most people want the raids to have stuff to show of and
i guess a lot now play that stuff even if they hate it, just because of the rewards
and not because of the challenge.

And hi to my stalker NT.

thought hardcores don’t pug? they have dedicated groups