Guild Wars 2

Yargesh.4965:

Don’t want to play but want to fill up pages on the games forums with what frankly you will never get seems to be a disconnect with reality going on. Interesting.

so that we change something and have more fun and better game for all of us to play .

Sir Egil The Bull.7869:

Yargesh.4965:

Don’t want to play but want to fill up pages on the games forums with what frankly you will never get seems to be a disconnect with reality going on. Interesting.

I’d like to think that the goal of this thread, & other threads like it, is to get a better game. Maybe it will be Guild Wars 2; maybe it will be Dragon Age: Inquisition; maybe it will be something else. Whatever happens, at least our opinions are out there.

Isn’t Dragon Age: Inquisition a single player game? In fact, I’m almost certain it is. That’s a completely different type of feedback. You can’t play a game like DA:I, then comment on the forums about features you’d like to see added. It’s not that type of game. What ships at release is essentially what you will get, save for bug fixes, and then of course paid DLC which they are famous for. And even then I doubt they look at player feedback on that.

For single player games, players seem to trust the developers to make it how they like it, if not people are just disappointed and move on. For MMOs, the players seem to think the developers are a bunch of greedy, buffoons that don’t know anything about their own game or what their players want and will complain incessantly long after they’ve quit the game. Quite the dichotomy actually.

Vayne.8563:

Wizzlock.3492:

Vayne.8563:

Wizzlock.3492:

Vayne.8563:

What do you make of this paragraph from the OP?

“Eventually that came to an end when we found out the weapons/armor, even fractual stuff did next to nothing, and was simply only for “Reskinning purposes”. By this I mean of course, there is no more progression after level 80, you’re the same, but only look different.”

Well -frankly I was thinking about new abilities of weapons (You know – attributes, special abilities) – expanding the flat progression. I don’t know what You were thinking about. New level cap? New weapon tier? I don’t like those ideas. OP didn’t specify his idea od “progression”, so I will be nice enough to not put any words in his mouth.

Vayne.8563:

There are only two things that will differentiate a piece of armor or a weapon. It’s looks or it’s stats. The OP is complaining that it only looks different. That means he wants more stats.

Unless of course you can find some other meaning in that paragraph.

Sure I can. To be honest – I haven’t thought about what Youthought… which says something about both of us, don’t You think?
Basicly – we have 4 Primary attributes, and 5 Secondary attributes. I think there is room for some special effects. I could give and example from Diablo 3, where we’ve got so much crapy weapons with crapy stats, but some have really cool bonus effects (armor for obtained coins, %chance for coin burst enemy etc.) in contrast to GW2 weapons which, You know – are so special, every and each of them, that actually non of them is. They are all the same – few choices, less viable etc.
I do not say same system will work in GW2 – no no no. But I do say I would welcome some diversity for this long stale layout we have.

He doesn’t want things JUST FOR APPEARANCE. A special affect is appearance. He wants stats. It’s clear from what he’s saying.

Sorry you can’t see that.

Sorry – now You are putting words in MY mouth. I do not like this and I do not appriciate this. let me give You example:
You say – “A special affect is appearance”
I say – “special effects. I could give and example […] armor for obtained coins, %chance for coin burst enemy etc.”

And again – You say what OP wants – “He wants stats. It’s clear from what he’s saying”. But it’s based on Your interpretation of his words, NOT his actual words. Good luck in real world with that attitude. So please point me to a place where he wrote:
“He wants stats. It’s clear from what he’s saying.”
Because I don’t see it. I see where Your interpretation comes from, and maybe You are right, but without clarification from OP, You sir are over-interpreting, or in other words – lying.
Sorry that I can see more, than just “I don’t agree with him = he’s wrong!!!” game. I’m so so soooo sorry.

I’m pretty sure most reasonable people would agree with my interpretation. Bottom line is this is what I believe he meant and this is what I’m responding to.

I won’t be responding to any more for your posts.

I’m not sure most reasonable people would agree with your interpretation. He doesn’t directly say he wants “gear progression” – in fact, here’s the actual quote:

simply only for “Reskinning purposes”. By this I mean of course, there is no more progression after level 80, you’re the same, but only look different. The difference between gear had halted.

There’s no more progression after 80. Basically, very little you do after 80 can allow you to experience the game differently. Which is true in some respects, primarily those respects being that only so much stuff works well and new content is being designed to deliver to those who made the rest of the game easy by their own decision, which makes it even more marginalized than it was before.

Given his poor grasp of grammar in the first place (likely primary foreign language), I think we can rule out any set in stone definition that his only idea of progression is a gear treadmill and the only differences he’s talking about is in regards to the rating.

And without any suggestions of what he wants, there likely won’t be any way to tell what kind of progression he wanted past 80, only thing we can know is that he felt dissatisfied with a lack of progression because of gear (which could also mean marginalized gear and usefulness).

Lynne.8416:

If you don’t find any enjoyment in the game anymore, then move on. There’s no shame in being disappointed that you feel you have to move on. Anet/NCsoft will continue to get new players into the game. And they will probably continue to evolve the game into something that “sells”. Even if I quit tomorrow, I’d be okay with that because I have gotten my “monies worth” so to speak.

I look a long time off GW2, ~7months, because I was burnt out and needed to refresh. When I came back, I returned with a renewed focus, I switched to a large, more active guild, and decided I needed more realistic goals to keep me interested, rather than b-lining to a legendary, which would almost surely burn me out again. I agree though, perhaps GW2 is just not what the OP wants or needs. It happens and is not unique to MMOs. One gets a certain expectation of a game and when it doesn’t live up to it you either adapt to it or the game gets shelved. This happened to me with Ni No Kuni, generally a highly acclaimed game that I couldn’t wait to play, while the story was very good, I HATED the gameplay. The same could be said of Bioshock 2, it simply missed the mark, while 1 and Infinite were excellent.

The only one thing where I can agree with OP is that in gw2 we dont have any challenging,cool,repetitive content . But what we get ?! LS which can be finished in less then 1h, finish it and never come back to this instance . Just nothing to do beyond pvp .

Did someone just bring up Bioshock?

lol

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

The only one thing where I can agree with OP is that in gw2 we dont have any challenging,cool,repetitive content . But what we get ?! LS which can be finished in less then 1h, finish it and never come back to this instance . Just nothing to do beyond pvp .

Your idea of challenging,cool,repetitive content is different than other players. Personally I enjoy the game.

As for the living story yeah it’s short and each episode can be finished in no time but I’m thankful for it, more so since it’s free.

Think of it this way Anet is in a way doing the same thing as WoW does. WoW releases a game and/or expansion, goes a 2 years or so to make another expansion but within that time frame they release new dungeons and raids which like the LS can be beat in no time. Anet comes out with the game and fills in the time frame with LS until something big comes out, which in my opinion is better than new dungeons.

Cuddy.6247:

I’m not sure most reasonable people would agree with your interpretation. He doesn’t directly say he wants “gear progression” – in fact, here’s the actual quote:

simply only for “Reskinning purposes”. By this I mean of course, there is no more progression after level 80, you’re the same, but only look different. The difference between gear had halted.

There’s no more progression after 80. Basically, very little you do after 80 can allow you to experience the game differently. Which is true in some respects, primarily those respects being that only so much stuff works well and new content is being designed to deliver to those who made the rest of the game easy by their own decision, which makes it even more marginalized than it was before.

Given his poor grasp of grammar in the first place (likely primary foreign language), I think we can rule out any set in stone definition that his only idea of progression is a gear treadmill and the only differences he’s talking about is in regards to the rating.

And without any suggestions of what he wants, there likely won’t be any way to tell what kind of progression he wanted past 80, only thing we can know is that he felt dissatisfied with a lack of progression because of gear (which could also mean marginalized gear and usefulness).

Thank You!
I wrote more or less the same thing, but I made mistake of pinpointing it to someone manipulative statemants from all over the forums, and my answers were deleted. Because – You know. My offtopic is offtopic, when someone else offtopic is THE TRUTH!. And on the other side – english is not my first language, so I never would do this so fluently.

Good to see some people do not like to generalize and try to look for real meaning and not the easiest answer. Sometimes (and that times are always) I think that white knights of MMO forums do more damage in name of protecting games name, than they actually help it. But that’s just my opinion.

So…wait…

While he participated in the beta, closed beta, etc, etc…what did he do? He didn’t run dungeons already in there to see people dying over and over at first till they learned? He didn’t learn that max level there wasn’t anything else but skins?

I’m just confused about that opening statement.

Draknar.5748:

Isn’t Dragon Age: Inquisition a single player game? In fact, I’m almost certain it is. That’s a completely different type of feedback. You can’t play a game like DA:I, then comment on the forums about features you’d like to see added. It’s not that type of game. What ships at release is essentially what you will get, save for bug fixes, and then of course paid DLC which they are famous for. And even then I doubt they look at player feedback on that.

For single player games, players seem to trust the developers to make it how they like it, if not people are just disappointed and move on. For MMOs, the players seem to think the developers are a bunch of greedy, buffoons that don’t know anything about their own game or what their players want and will complain incessantly long after they’ve quit the game. Quite the dichotomy actually.

Are you saying that anyone who has ever played a MMO, has never played a single-player game (like Skyrim)?

Sir Egil The Bull.7869:

Draknar.5748:

Isn’t Dragon Age: Inquisition a single player game? In fact, I’m almost certain it is. That’s a completely different type of feedback. You can’t play a game like DA:I, then comment on the forums about features you’d like to see added. It’s not that type of game. What ships at release is essentially what you will get, save for bug fixes, and then of course paid DLC which they are famous for. And even then I doubt they look at player feedback on that.

For single player games, players seem to trust the developers to make it how they like it, if not people are just disappointed and move on. For MMOs, the players seem to think the developers are a bunch of greedy, buffoons that don’t know anything about their own game or what their players want and will complain incessantly long after they’ve quit the game. Quite the dichotomy actually.

Are you saying that anyone who has ever played a MMO, has never played a single-player game (like Skyrim)?

He’s just saying that the feedback’s not the same for a MMO vs. a single-player game, not necessarily the playerbase? I’m not sure how that could be missed.

In regards to that point though, MMOs can actually be changed – single-players generally can’t be. It’s in the way certain mechanics work. It’s a lot easier to change how a skill functions in Guild Wars 2 than it is to, say, make a complete overhaul of how sneaking works in Skyrim. So yes, naturally players will take it all or nothing in a single-player game and voice their concerns when it comes to a MMO – because the MMO still has some potential for change.

There won’t be any major overhauls, such as dodging won’t suddenly be eliminated for vastly superior defense. There’s far too much backbone built on that particular mechanic, just like there’s so much backbone built on sneaking or smithing in Skyrim.

It’s all about that contextual relationship between what can be reasonably changed/added and what is a complete overhaul of backbone mechanisms.

Have you ever heard of a Mod? How many Skyrim Mods are out there?

Cuddy.6247:

Sir Egil The Bull.7869:

Draknar.5748:

Isn’t Dragon Age: Inquisition a single player game? In fact, I’m almost certain it is. That’s a completely different type of feedback. You can’t play a game like DA:I, then comment on the forums about features you’d like to see added. It’s not that type of game. What ships at release is essentially what you will get, save for bug fixes, and then of course paid DLC which they are famous for. And even then I doubt they look at player feedback on that.

For single player games, players seem to trust the developers to make it how they like it, if not people are just disappointed and move on. For MMOs, the players seem to think the developers are a bunch of greedy, buffoons that don’t know anything about their own game or what their players want and will complain incessantly long after they’ve quit the game. Quite the dichotomy actually.

Are you saying that anyone who has ever played a MMO, has never played a single-player game (like Skyrim)?

He’s just saying that the feedback’s not the same for a MMO vs. a single-player game, not necessarily the playerbase? I’m not sure how that could be missed.

In regards to that point though, MMOs can actually be changed – single-players generally can’t be. It’s in the way certain mechanics work. It’s a lot easier to change how a skill functions in Guild Wars 2 than it is to, say, make a complete overhaul of how sneaking works in Skyrim. So yes, naturally players will take it all or nothing in a single-player game and voice their concerns when it comes to a MMO – because the MMO still has some potential for change.

There won’t be any major overhauls, such as dodging won’t suddenly be eliminated for vastly superior defense. There’s far too much backbone built on that particular mechanic, just like there’s so much backbone built on sneaking or smithing in Skyrim.

It’s all about that contextual relationship between what can be reasonably changed/added and what is a complete overhaul of backbone mechanisms.

For the record – I do agree with You, just want to point an exception to the rule. D3 got exactly this kind of overhaul in a singleplayer game (with box addon), based on playerbase reception and feedback. The line between feedback for MMO and feedback for singlepayer games may become blurry in upcoming future. Not to mention players made modding and stuff, but that’s beyond original creative team.

Sir Egil The Bull.7869:

Draknar.5748:

Isn’t Dragon Age: Inquisition a single player game? In fact, I’m almost certain it is. That’s a completely different type of feedback. You can’t play a game like DA:I, then comment on the forums about features you’d like to see added. It’s not that type of game. What ships at release is essentially what you will get, save for bug fixes, and then of course paid DLC which they are famous for. And even then I doubt they look at player feedback on that.

For single player games, players seem to trust the developers to make it how they like it, if not people are just disappointed and move on. For MMOs, the players seem to think the developers are a bunch of greedy, buffoons that don’t know anything about their own game or what their players want and will complain incessantly long after they’ve quit the game. Quite the dichotomy actually.

Are you saying that anyone who has ever played a MMO, has never played a single-player game (like Skyrim)?

I, uh, no?

Just commenting on how it is odd to lump a game like Dragon Age: Inquisition in with MMOs when talking about player feedback on forum threads. As someone mentioned, single player games typically are what they are and there is very little change in terms of core mechanics/content, etc (excluding DLC). They aren’t persistent worlds in the way that MMOs are.

They might as well have thrown Gran Turismo or Street Fighter in there for additional comparison.

I had a detailed response to the OP but then I just looked and it filled me with heart crushing, shattering sadness that he even posted.

He is so wrong in his post and his points are so full of inaccuracies that I have lost faith in him even understanding the game he purports to have played since beta. (which I doubt) To go over each in turn would be way to much of a chore.

Back to the Silverwastes and killing Mordrem!!!

Peace.

p.s. the above was some what in jest (using his over the top verbiage etc.) but ultimately how I feel about the OP. The points he makes are rehashes and for the most part wrong. Play the game or move on, it’s as simple as that.

Exactly, you can’t compare gameplay/rewards of an MMO to a single player game. But fundamentally, GW2 is the same game it was 2 years ago. Sure, there’s the LW content and some balancing, but there hasn’t been a great amount of persistent content added since launch, other than Southsun Cove, Fractals, one or two dungeon paths and a couple world bosses…which is a pittance in over 2 years. Now, finally there are some new maps with the LW and hopefully they will remain persistent…and more importantly, viable now that the amber farm is dead. The new maps are useless if they become abandoned, much like Southsun was for so long. They added the wardrobe which was awesome except that it drove the prices of the most desirable skins through the roof…which was NOT awesome. There was the trait reworking, which, well, was questionable at best. The newer LW has fewer cut scenes and more dialog that you have to read than in the past. Everything added as of late seems to add new currencies, collections or things you need to grind for and waste space in your inventory/bank, with little story, which is fine…but who are they trying to please with all this? They haven’t even added a new JP in a kitten ’s age, which used to be a big deal in GW2. Both holiday releases have very elaborate ones and Southsun has 2. What I’m saying though, is if you got bored of the game and didn’t like it a year ago, you’re probably not going to like it any more now. The changes have not been that earth-shattering. Fundamentally, it’s the same game as it was 2 years ago.

It’s no different than with a single player game. If you didn’t like it now, you’re not likely to like it any more further down the road. So when you compare an MMO to a single player game, all you can do is compare them as games. You can’t compare loot, which will always be worse, but more customizable, in an MMO. You can’t compare content which will almost always be richer in a good single player game, but more condensed. You can’t really compare gameplay which has to account for many concurrent players and typically multiple modes in MMOs, so MMO controls are typically less complex, but require more understanding to use them effectively. What you can compare is whether you like the game. Ask yourself if you really like GW2 or are you more trying to like it simply because you liked GW1?

What an MMO offers me over single player games is the ability to drop in and drop out without having to remember a great deal of anything or commit a great deal of time. It’s hard to just pick up a single player RPG game for instance and just play for 30 minutes or an hour and feel like you achieved something. Provided I set realistic goals for the time I have, I can enjoy GW2 and feel like I got something for my time, be it 15 minutes over lunch at work or several hours in the evening on the occasions I can do that.

@ Leamas

Why are we talking about single play game?

Only thing one of the repsonse is if you want there are other games to play… and give out a example which happen to be a SRPG game.

laokoko.7403:

@ Leamas

Why are we talking about single play game?

Only thing the person says is if you want there are other games to play… and give out a example which happen to be a SRPG game.

I don’t know. But someone jumped all over them comparing DA:I to GW2 as an invalid comparison and I thought it an interesting aside. Personally I play both single player and MMO on multiple platforms (PC, Playstation 1-4, various Nintendo, various handhelds and even some classics via RetroN-5) and I’m not biased toward either type of game in any way. I just like games, though some are better than others.

Sir Egil The Bull.7869:

Have you ever heard of a Mod? How many Skyrim Mods are out there?

How many change core functions of the game? 0? Right.

Patches/mods are basically the same thing by different names. Patches are released by the devs and are basically required to continue playing any game with DRM. Mods on the other hand are unofficial alterations made by the community at large you can make to your game, but they virtually effect the same realm of possibilities.

So voicing concerns over a MMO like GW2 is basically like installing a mod for a singleplayer game. You can’t change the core game but at least you can add or change little kitten.

Wizzlock.3492:

Cuddy.6247:

I’m not sure most reasonable people would agree with your interpretation. He doesn’t directly say he wants “gear progression” – in fact, here’s the actual quote:

simply only for “Reskinning purposes”. By this I mean of course, there is no more progression after level 80, you’re the same, but only look different. The difference between gear had halted.

There’s no more progression after 80. Basically, very little you do after 80 can allow you to experience the game differently. Which is true in some respects, primarily those respects being that only so much stuff works well and new content is being designed to deliver to those who made the rest of the game easy by their own decision, which makes it even more marginalized than it was before.

Given his poor grasp of grammar in the first place (likely primary foreign language), I think we can rule out any set in stone definition that his only idea of progression is a gear treadmill and the only differences he’s talking about is in regards to the rating.

And without any suggestions of what he wants, there likely won’t be any way to tell what kind of progression he wanted past 80, only thing we can know is that he felt dissatisfied with a lack of progression because of gear (which could also mean marginalized gear and usefulness).

Thank You!
I wrote more or less the same thing, but I made mistake of pinpointing it to someone manipulative statemants from all over the forums, and my answers were deleted. Because – You know. My offtopic is offtopic, when someone else offtopic is THE TRUTH!. And on the other side – english is not my first language, so I never would do this so fluently.

Good to see some people do not like to generalize and try to look for real meaning and not the easiest answer. Sometimes (and that times are always) I think that white knights of MMO forums do more damage in name of protecting games name, than they actually help it. But that’s just my opinion.

One guy agreed with you. One guy agreed with me. I still say most reasonable people would have interpreted it the way I did.

I maintain that. I’m not sure having a single guy agree with you or even five means much. The fact stands that I believe this guy was talking about gear progression and I think most people would thing the same.

Why? Because in that paragraph he quoted the stuff you get from fractals…which is gear. Therefore logically, he expected the gear to give him some kind of advantage.

And that’s what this game was not supposed to be about.

TL;dr: it depends on what you are looking for…

I understand what you say. Many points are subjective. Still:
- once you payed for it, you may return if you want. True, but after 2-3 times when one has returned and found the same kitten, it’s true, returning gets… difficult.
– I also joined at launch, expected a revolution and so on. It was cool at first, then it got dull. All my friends went back to UoU, me included.
- real life changed it’s course, I quit UoU, tried GW2 again. Did not like the fractals / southsun(or what the name was), so it was bye bye time.
- 1 year later, I still log in to GW2, daily if I can, cut a few trees, mine a few nodes, run 1-2 dungeons. In the weekends I try to WvW a bit.

All in all, it’s a decent game, IMO, for one that has 1-2 hours to waste every couple of days.

I agree, for the past 2 years, GW2 has had mediocre skill tunning, no big add-on and so on. Compared to other MMOs it is changing at a snail’s pace (check Older Skrills Offline patch notes, you will see what I mean).

It’s ok. If you do not enjoy it, don’t play it. Posting here or anywhere else will not drive AN to change things.

The community has had a very very very minor influence so far, and IMO AN has very few… staff members / devs / etc and they don’t have the man power / knowledge and most of all Will to change some of the things the community has been asking for for the past 2 years.

Vayne.8563:

Wizzlock.3492:

Cuddy.6247:

I’m not sure most reasonable people would agree with your interpretation. He doesn’t directly say he wants “gear progression” – in fact, here’s the actual quote:

simply only for “Reskinning purposes”. By this I mean of course, there is no more progression after level 80, you’re the same, but only look different. The difference between gear had halted.

There’s no more progression after 80. Basically, very little you do after 80 can allow you to experience the game differently. Which is true in some respects, primarily those respects being that only so much stuff works well and new content is being designed to deliver to those who made the rest of the game easy by their own decision, which makes it even more marginalized than it was before.

Given his poor grasp of grammar in the first place (likely primary foreign language), I think we can rule out any set in stone definition that his only idea of progression is a gear treadmill and the only differences he’s talking about is in regards to the rating.

And without any suggestions of what he wants, there likely won’t be any way to tell what kind of progression he wanted past 80, only thing we can know is that he felt dissatisfied with a lack of progression because of gear (which could also mean marginalized gear and usefulness).

Thank You!
I wrote more or less the same thing, but I made mistake of pinpointing it to someone manipulative statemants from all over the forums, and my answers were deleted. Because – You know. My offtopic is offtopic, when someone else offtopic is THE TRUTH!. And on the other side – english is not my first language, so I never would do this so fluently.

Good to see some people do not like to generalize and try to look for real meaning and not the easiest answer. Sometimes (and that times are always) I think that white knights of MMO forums do more damage in name of protecting games name, than they actually help it. But that’s just my opinion.

One guy agreed with you. One guy agreed with me. I still say most reasonable people would have interpreted it the way I did.

I maintain that. I’m not sure having a single guy agree with you or even five means much. The fact stands that I believe this guy was talking about gear progression and I think most people would thing the same.

Why? Because in that paragraph he quoted the stuff you get from fractals…which is gear. Therefore logically, he expected the gear to give him some kind of advantage.

And that’s what this game was not supposed to be about.

Way to completely dismiss obvious subjectivity. Twice.

Progression and variation doesn’t have to stop at vertical ratings. There is also horizontal spread that GW2 lacks when compared to other MMOs. You read into this idea of progression way too negatively to have an open mind about horizontal progression.

Vayne.8563:

There are so many flaws with the OP, I’d have to make a post almost as long as the OP to list them. Staring with the wrong name for Fractals, then talking about gear progession like that’s something people came here for, and moving on to people dying in dungeons which made them give up.

If they changed this game to make it something you play, OP, I’d leave. What you want isn’t really what this game was designed to be. It was DESIGNED to be about skins, not stats.

What he said. 10+ dungeons death is due to lack of trinity? Really? Did you know people solo Arah now? People die in dungeon because of: lack of experience, lack of skills, lack of patience, and sometimes, they are just simply bad!

Gear Progression, bleh, not gonna touch that.

Skin? I always thought this game is about skin. I found this game very refreshing because finally, I can take a breath for a month (or more) and my gear are still RELEVANT. I am not FORCED to play everyday nor have to be forced to grind every raid there is, just to so I can say I have BiS.

I’ll stop there, because the problem with OP is simply because, this game isn’t for OP. THERE IS NO PERFECT GAME THAT FITS EVERYONE. Just find your niche, or find the one that fits your taste. If you change this game to your taste, I will be one of those whose gonna pack bags. I will not complain like you do, but I’m sure there will be those who will complain how the game change and just because it doesn’t fit their taste anymore.

It’s the reality of the game, and life. No one can please everyone 100% of the time. I love chocolate, and my friend hates it. I hate cold, and my friend loves it. Is one bad and the other good? Of course not, we just have different taste.

And thus it shall be known as “Greed Wars 2”. lol

Also, FFXIV is AMAZING!

So the OP simply does not have fun with GW2, so what?

Cuddy.6247:

Vayne.8563:

Wizzlock.3492:

Cuddy.6247:

I’m not sure most reasonable people would agree with your interpretation. He doesn’t directly say he wants “gear progression” – in fact, here’s the actual quote:

simply only for “Reskinning purposes”. By this I mean of course, there is no more progression after level 80, you’re the same, but only look different. The difference between gear had halted.

There’s no more progression after 80. Basically, very little you do after 80 can allow you to experience the game differently. Which is true in some respects, primarily those respects being that only so much stuff works well and new content is being designed to deliver to those who made the rest of the game easy by their own decision, which makes it even more marginalized than it was before.

Given his poor grasp of grammar in the first place (likely primary foreign language), I think we can rule out any set in stone definition that his only idea of progression is a gear treadmill and the only differences he’s talking about is in regards to the rating.

And without any suggestions of what he wants, there likely won’t be any way to tell what kind of progression he wanted past 80, only thing we can know is that he felt dissatisfied with a lack of progression because of gear (which could also mean marginalized gear and usefulness).

Thank You!
I wrote more or less the same thing, but I made mistake of pinpointing it to someone manipulative statemants from all over the forums, and my answers were deleted. Because – You know. My offtopic is offtopic, when someone else offtopic is THE TRUTH!. And on the other side – english is not my first language, so I never would do this so fluently.

Good to see some people do not like to generalize and try to look for real meaning and not the easiest answer. Sometimes (and that times are always) I think that white knights of MMO forums do more damage in name of protecting games name, than they actually help it. But that’s just my opinion.

One guy agreed with you. One guy agreed with me. I still say most reasonable people would have interpreted it the way I did.

I maintain that. I’m not sure having a single guy agree with you or even five means much. The fact stands that I believe this guy was talking about gear progression and I think most people would thing the same.

Why? Because in that paragraph he quoted the stuff you get from fractals…which is gear. Therefore logically, he expected the gear to give him some kind of advantage.

And that’s what this game was not supposed to be about.

Way to completely dismiss obvious subjectivity. Twice.

Progression and variation doesn’t have to stop at vertical ratings. There is also horizontal spread that GW2 lacks when compared to other MMOs. You read into this idea of progression way too negatively to have an open mind about horizontal progression.

The OP mentioned gear. He didn’t mention skills. You say I ignore subjectivity. You’re ignoring words. Words in the OP.

When I interpret stuff, I interpret stuff by looking at the wording. The OP was talking about fractal gear…IE the gear you get from the Fractals.

Now in the game, gear has stats. That’s what differentiates between gear. Why is an ascended item better than an exotic one. More stats…and more damage, which I certainly consider a stat.

There’s one way to intepret the OP’s words without completely trying to stretch it to prove a point. Anyone who says otherwise…they’re welcome to their opinion. But I don’t think you’ll find many to agree with you.

Thus my comment about most people interpreting it the way I did is fine.

If the person kittenponded to me, didn’t try to “teach me a lesson” this would have been a long dead issue. The words themselves, they’re pretty clear.

Uh… guys? The OP is gone. Hasn’t posted since the original posts. Maybe arguing about what he meant is a waste of everyone’s time?

Just a thought.

(P.S. – Feel free to interpret this any way you’d like)

I recently just came back to game. I actually have liked what I have seen. I am enjoying the living story and going back and doing achievements. I really like what they have done with the achievement system. I was pleased to see that my commander tag that I’ve had since my first month or 2 of playing the game (it was the first thing I saved up for) is now able to turn different colors without me having to pay the extra 200 gold price increase. (Pretty nifty.) I can’t wait for them to open up more maps. I have really enjoyed dry top and silver wastes so far.

I agree with the OP on a complete lack of character progression in GW2, to keep the longer term players interested.

I have had all the 8 character classes at lvl 80 for over a year or more now and the only form of character progression left to me is gaining WvW ranks. Other than that there is nothing really….

Sure we get new content, stories to play through which is great but after completing it, other than a bit more gold, your characters are pretty much the same as at the start, no gains, no character progression at all.

Seems a bit pointless bothering….

Humor.5763:

So, firs of all, I’m someone who’s participated in the Beta, Closed beta, etc, etc. And have played this game on and off, since launch. The only reason really that I quit in the first place, was due to a lack of “content”.

- Alright, seems like you got your money’s worth then? Have you found any other activities that you enjoy?

Piecekeeper.4361:

Uh… guys? The OP is gone. Hasn’t posted since the original posts. Maybe arguing about what he meant is a waste of everyone’s time?

Just a thought.

(P.S. – Feel free to interpret this any way you’d like)

What? The OP’s been kidnapped?!

Vayne.8563:

It was DESIGNED to be about skins, not stats.

This, this right here, is why we can’t have nice things…or a great MMO.

You have to take the development of GW2 like a single player game : near to nothing is added since launch.

TLDR: Vayne is right, everyone else is wrong. Move along.

Shall I point out the complete lack of horizontal progression available?

We were going to get a regular influx of new skills and traits, to allow us different ways to play, without having the gear treadmill.

Instead, what we’ve gotten is a trait system designed to kitten us off, and no new skills, no new weapons.

Zero horizontal progression, and a minor vertical grind.

From a character development viewpoint, once you hit lvl 80, you may as well delete and reroll, because that’s it. All your growth is over.

Since OP keeps mentioning GW1, I ended up thinking about skill hunting, and how sometimes grabbing a new skill ended up with me having a dramatically different build afterward.

OP, I feel you. 7 years of GW1, and not once did I feel “burnt out” or that I’d run out of interesting things to do. After 2 years, all I can see for GW2 is failure, compounded by the ineptitude and greed of it’s management.

I will admit, someone caught my attention about the newest bit of LS, since apparently, if I played GW1, I ought to love it. I’m curious (can answer in PM, to keep this thread on topic)

Does it have skill hunting? New traits? Finally, a worthwhile change to builds? Some sense of character growth? I’ll assume the answer to all of these is “No.” but if I’m wrong, I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

Peace, eh?

Stale/Dan

Rysinsun.7306:

TLDR: Vayne is right, everyone else is wrong. Move along.

I wonder why people ignore others who agree me in in this sort of post.

Vayne.8563:

The OP mentioned gear. He didn’t mention skills.

So gear can’t have horizontal spread as well? kitten, I must’ve been playing World of Warcraft wrong all this time.

Gear most certainly can be different without being a treadmill. It’s why we have Soldier’s gear, Berserker’s gear or Valkyrie’s gear.

But these are introduced early and the range of effectiveness that some people want (especially people who play trinity MMOs) is kitten poor. It’s not that options aren’t available, it’s just that 90% of the options are pretty crummy and people don’t want to use them. Whereas in virtually every other MMO you could take a warrior, give them a particular weapon, and have about six different ways to build that warrior instead of one, or two depending if you want to drop the Fast Hands trait. Even further from that, all six of those different ways (with different gear specs) were effective.

Guild Wars 2 doesn’t provide that.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Cuddy.6247:

Vayne.8563:

The OP mentioned gear. He didn’t mention skills.

So gear can’t have horizontal spread as well? kitten, I must’ve been playing World of Warcraft wrong all this time.

Gear most certainly can be different without being a treadmill. It’s why we have Soldier’s gear, Berserker’s gear or Valkyrie’s gear.

But these are introduced early and the range of effectiveness that some people want (especially people who play trinity MMOs) is kitten poor. It’s not that options aren’t available, it’s just that 90% of the options are pretty crummy and people don’t want to use them. Whereas in virtually every other MMO you could take a warrior, give them a particular weapon, and have about six different ways to build that warrior instead of one, or two depending if you want to drop the Fast Hands trait. Even further from that, all six of those different ways (with different gear specs) were effective.

Guild Wars 2 doesn’t provide that.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

I didn’t use the word treadmill. I used the word stats. In this game gear has stats. He was complaining the power didn’t go up. That was the complaint.

Defend the indefensible if you must but I’m done with this.

Cuddy.6247:

I’m not sure most reasonable people would agree with your interpretation. He doesn’t directly say he wants “gear progression” – in fact, here’s the actual quote:

simply only for “Reskinning purposes”. By this I mean of course, there is no more progression after level 80, you’re the same, but only look different. The difference between gear had halted.

There’s no more progression after 80. Basically, very little you do after 80 can allow you to experience the game differently. Which is true in some respects, primarily those respects being that only so much stuff works well and new content is being designed to deliver to those who made the rest of the game easy by their own decision, which makes it even more marginalized than it was before.

Given his poor grasp of grammar in the first place (likely primary foreign language), I think we can rule out any set in stone definition that his only idea of progression is a gear treadmill and the only differences he’s talking about is in regards to the rating.

And without any suggestions of what he wants, there likely won’t be any way to tell what kind of progression he wanted past 80, only thing we can know is that he felt dissatisfied with a lack of progression because of gear (which could also mean marginalized gear and usefulness).

I actually do think most people would consider “progression” = gear treadmill. Progression implies “reaching a higher level” as opposed to “reaching a different level”, so not sure why you understand it the way you do. It’s fair to read something differnetly or misunderstand one another, but I think the reason this ended up in such an elaborate and borderline off-topic debate is that Wizzlock almost scolded Vayne for “putting words in the OP’s mouth”, which I found rather rude in itself. Sure, you can say “I read this differently” or “I think he perhaps meant something else”, but I think we can all agree that stat progression is an at least a very likely interpretation of what the OP was talking about.

@OP: tbh you sound like you don’t really click well with the principle of this game. Don’t get me wrong, I just got back after a 1+ year hiatus, so I’m not unconditionally loving the game or white-knighting, but there are a couple of things the game doesn’t necessarily do wrong that you just don’t like (which is okay of course). Take the nature of dungeons for example: you see it as a negative that you’ll likely die a couple of times trying to figure out how said dungeon works, a lot of people really enjoy that (I do wonder what the OP is looking for in a dungeon – a grind-fest? Something that’s actually difficult even if you know the mechanics? If the second aspect is what he likes it’s a shame he never got into fractals, because that’s exactly what they’re about, coupled with a certain degree of “gear progression” (increased amounts of agony resist)). The lack of “gear progression” vs customization is again something most people who play the game like. Same with the lack of holy trinity. All these are aspects in coherence with the design idea of GW2 – whether you like them or not should be the deciding factor in if this game is for you.

I don’t even necessarily disagree with all your points – I love playing tank so the lack of holy trinity mildly turns me off as well, however literally every single player has a different set of expectations in an mmo, different likes and dislikes and it is literally impossible to please everyone. It is far more valuable, in my opinion, for a design team to have a strong vision and implement that well, rather than trying to please everyone. I’m not saying anet are doing a great job with that – the NPE has really back-paddled on their original vision of exploring a living world at your own pace which I think is a real shame, and some areas of the game such as spvp and WvW still feel a bit unfinished without receiving proper regular updates.

My point is this: rather than trying to stear the game into a completely new direction that’s directly opposed to the original design decision, we should sit down, look at the concept, look at what’s working and what isn’t working, and within that context try to figure out how to make the game as fun as possible.
As mentioned previously, I just recently returned from not playing for over a year – I quit because GW2 was too casual for me (and I’m not interested in pseudo-hardcore time-filler content like achievements) and now returned because a casual mmo is precisely what I’m looking for. I’d like for them to implement their story better, to make their pve dungeons more versatile, the WvW to feel more rewarding and consequential and a horde of other things, but I really feel that asking for the game to be something it’s not – like it being more hardcore, which is what I was looking for back in the day – isn’t the best approach.

It’s pretty important to note that many of the OPs points are points that continue to be brought to the forefront. GW held my attention far longer than GW2, it had steady updates of content, clearly defined roles and build diversity was a big part of success in a more varied set of combat scenerios. There is such a lack in effective build diversity outside of PvP so the game mechanics become stale. I’m pretty positive that this game was not only marketed, but built around the idea that “everyone” would be catered to, the occasional, the casual and the hard-core. Unfortunately, it just isn’t “sticky” enough to really appeal to all those player types, this especially if you don’t care for PvP. It seems the game really wants the occasional, where most players tend to come around for LS, see what’s new, play for an hour or two, then come back next go around of new LS content. It really feels like, for the harder core players, the only game to play here is forum wars.

Cuddy.6247:

Vayne.8563:

The OP mentioned gear. He didn’t mention skills.

So gear can’t have horizontal spread as well? kitten, I must’ve been playing World of Warcraft wrong all this time.

Not discussing about Gw2’s gear features or efficiency of each stat, but I wanted to point out, about what the OP’s view on gear. And I quote him (emphasis is mine):

Humor.5763:

Eventually that came to an end when we found out the weapons/armor, even fractual stuff did next to nothing, and was simply only for “Reskinning purposes”. By this I mean of course, there is no more progression after level 80, you’re the same, but only look different. The difference between gear had halted

OP said, he’s NOT into “horizontal” progression (aka he doesn’t like changes in just skin). And certainly, he doesn’t mean about various stat combination or efficiency of various stat combination, because we have several flavors now after launch (Settler’s, Assasin’s, Celestial, Sentinel, Sisnister, Nomad’s and maybe I’m missing one or two). So from that, since he’s not into skin and ignore the various other stat combinations, he can only mean a gear progression vertically. Because, if he meant Horizontal, then skin is part of Horizontal Progession, as well as effects (the new Lumi thingie), as well new Stat Combinations as well as being able to do L.S, (and how about those Halo/Horn and even the Kiel/Evon “buffs”). The OP never consider those as progression, it’s just a"reskinning" for him.

What you did when you mentioned the “after 80”, is that you only focused on “part” of that sentence, and ignore the context of that block of text. That is why I used the emphasis approach to highlight and see why the OP meant Vertical as opposed to Horizontal.

And actually, when Fractals first launched, it also launched the Ascended Tier. There was a vertical gear progression when “fractual” launched, and in that regard, he still failed to see it and missed it. Granted, it was just “rings” when Fractals launched, but a new tier higher than exotic was finally introduced into the game. That Ascended Tier slowly trickles down to Trinkets, Weapons, and Armor.

Cuddy.6247:

Vayne.8563:

The OP mentioned gear. He didn’t mention skills.

So gear can’t have horizontal spread as well? kitten, I must’ve been playing World of Warcraft wrong all this time.

Gear most certainly can be different without being a treadmill. It’s why we have Soldier’s gear, Berserker’s gear or Valkyrie’s gear.

But these are introduced early and the range of effectiveness that some people want (especially people who play trinity MMOs) is kitten poor. It’s not that options aren’t available, it’s just that 90% of the options are pretty crummy and people don’t want to use them. Whereas in virtually every other MMO you could take a warrior, give them a particular weapon, and have about six different ways to build that warrior instead of one, or two depending if you want to drop the Fast Hands trait. Even further from that, all six of those different ways (with different gear specs) were effective.

Guild Wars 2 doesn’t provide that.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Seems to me that you state your opinion as if it were fact. You have proof that percentage of options are “crummy”? Or are you pressuming to speak for the community? Personally I feel those options are pretty great, as well as diverse.

munkiman.3068:

It’s pretty important to note that many of the OPs points are points that continue to be brought to the forefront.

They will still be, as they been for the last 2 years.

It does not mean that anything will be done about it (and it is my personal opinion that it will not).

At the end of the day, GW2 is just a game. For me it competes for the spending of 1-2 hours with my books, music, wife, friends, etc.

munkiman.3068:

It’s pretty important to note that many of the OPs points are points that continue to be brought to the forefront. GW held my attention far longer than GW2, it had steady updates of content, clearly defined roles and build diversity was a big part of success in a more varied set of combat scenerios. There is such a lack in effective build diversity outside of PvP so the game mechanics become stale. I’m pretty positive that this game was not only marketed, but built around the idea that “everyone” would be catered to, the occasional, the casual and the hard-core. Unfortunately, it just isn’t “sticky” enough to really appeal to all those player types, this especially if you don’t care for PvP. It seems the game really wants the occasional, where most players tend to come around for LS, see what’s new, play for an hour or two, then come back next go around of new LS content. It really feels like, for the harder core players, the only game to play here is forum wars.

I still believe there are more people playing Guild Wars 2 than played Guild Wars 1 though. And I still believe that just because people keep bringing something up over and over again doesn’t make it right or true.

For a long time, most of humanity believes the world was flat. We keep seeing dueling and mount threads over and over and we never had that in Guild Wars 1.

Sure we see a lot of stuff over and over. Doesn’t mean it’s good for the game…even if you’d like it.

DeathMetal.8264:

Cuddy.6247:

Vayne.8563:

The OP mentioned gear. He didn’t mention skills.

So gear can’t have horizontal spread as well? kitten, I must’ve been playing World of Warcraft wrong all this time.

Not discussing about Gw2’s gear features or efficiency of each stat, but I wanted to point out, about what the OP’s view on gear. And I quote him (emphasis is mine):

Humor.5763:

Eventually that came to an end when we found out the weapons/armor, even fractual stuff did next to nothing, and was simply only for “Reskinning purposes”. By this I mean of course, there is no more progression after level 80, you’re the same, but only look different. The difference between gear had halted

OP said, he’s NOT into “horizontal” progression (aka he doesn’t like changes in just skin). And certainly, he doesn’t mean about various stat combination or efficiency of various stat combination, because we have several flavors now after launch (Settler’s, Assasin’s, Celestial, Sentinel, Sisnister, Nomad’s and maybe I’m missing one or two). So from that, since he’s not into skin and ignore the various other stat combinations, he can only mean a gear progression vertically. Because, if he meant Horizontal, then skin is part of Horizontal Progession, as well as effects (the new Lumi thingie), as well new Stat Combinations as well as being able to do L.S, (and how about those Halo/Horn and even the Kiel/Evon “buffs”). The OP never consider those as progression, it’s just a"reskinning" for him.

Where did he say he was against horizontal progression? Just because ANet’s added lousy new stats that are still “meh” doesn’t make them purposeful. The game still lacks the depth and quality of gear refinement that existed in many MMOs prior.

Vayne.8563:

Cuddy.6247:

Vayne.8563:

The OP mentioned gear. He didn’t mention skills.

So gear can’t have horizontal spread as well? kitten, I must’ve been playing World of Warcraft wrong all this time.

Gear most certainly can be different without being a treadmill. It’s why we have Soldier’s gear, Berserker’s gear or Valkyrie’s gear.

But these are introduced early and the range of effectiveness that some people want (especially people who play trinity MMOs) is kitten poor. It’s not that options aren’t available, it’s just that 90% of the options are pretty crummy and people don’t want to use them. Whereas in virtually every other MMO you could take a warrior, give them a particular weapon, and have about six different ways to build that warrior instead of one, or two depending if you want to drop the Fast Hands trait. Even further from that, all six of those different ways (with different gear specs) were effective.

Guild Wars 2 doesn’t provide that.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

I didn’t use the word treadmill. I used the word stats. In this game gear has stats. He was complaining the power didn’t go up. That was the complaint.

Defend the indefensible if you must but I’m done with this.

He didn’t once say his complaint was that the power didn’t go up. His complaint was a lack of progression and, daresay, any real changes.

Personally, I blame the poor gear system on the lack of an energy bar to cast powerful spells – energy is such a huge factor in other MMO games that it really helps define how a player wants to go. But that would certainly just throw melee players under the bus. In a game like WoW it’s absurd how many ways you can go. Hell, even GW1 had more effective choices. People will play GW2 expecting it to be like MMOs they’re used to and then realize that once they do, they’ve just reduced the game’s longevity by half.

Cuddy.6247:

DeathMetal.8264:

Cuddy.6247:

Vayne.8563:

The OP mentioned gear. He didn’t mention skills.

So gear can’t have horizontal spread as well? kitten, I must’ve been playing World of Warcraft wrong all this time.

Not discussing about Gw2’s gear features or efficiency of each stat, but I wanted to point out, about what the OP’s view on gear. And I quote him (emphasis is mine):

Humor.5763:

Eventually that came to an end when we found out the weapons/armor, even fractual stuff did next to nothing, and was simply only for “Reskinning purposes”. By this I mean of course, there is no more progression after level 80, you’re the same, but only look different. The difference between gear had halted

OP said, he’s NOT into “horizontal” progression (aka he doesn’t like changes in just skin). And certainly, he doesn’t mean about various stat combination or efficiency of various stat combination, because we have several flavors now after launch (Settler’s, Assasin’s, Celestial, Sentinel, Sisnister, Nomad’s and maybe I’m missing one or two). So from that, since he’s not into skin and ignore the various other stat combinations, he can only mean a gear progression vertically. Because, if he meant Horizontal, then skin is part of Horizontal Progession, as well as effects (the new Lumi thingie), as well new Stat Combinations as well as being able to do L.S, (and how about those Halo/Horn and even the Kiel/Evon “buffs”). The OP never consider those as progression, it’s just a"reskinning" for him.

Where did he say he was against horizontal progression? Just because ANet’s added lousy new stats that are still “meh” doesn’t make them purposeful. The game still lacks the depth and quality of gear refinement that existed in many MMOs prior.

Vayne.8563:

Cuddy.6247:

Vayne.8563:

The OP mentioned gear. He didn’t mention skills.

So gear can’t have horizontal spread as well? kitten, I must’ve been playing World of Warcraft wrong all this time.

Gear most certainly can be different without being a treadmill. It’s why we have Soldier’s gear, Berserker’s gear or Valkyrie’s gear.

But these are introduced early and the range of effectiveness that some people want (especially people who play trinity MMOs) is kitten poor. It’s not that options aren’t available, it’s just that 90% of the options are pretty crummy and people don’t want to use them. Whereas in virtually every other MMO you could take a warrior, give them a particular weapon, and have about six different ways to build that warrior instead of one, or two depending if you want to drop the Fast Hands trait. Even further from that, all six of those different ways (with different gear specs) were effective.

Guild Wars 2 doesn’t provide that.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

I didn’t use the word treadmill. I used the word stats. In this game gear has stats. He was complaining the power didn’t go up. That was the complaint.

Defend the indefensible if you must but I’m done with this.

He didn’t once say his complaint was that the power didn’t go up. His complaint was a lack of progression and, daresay, any real changes.

Personally, I blame the poor gear system on the lack of an energy bar to cast powerful spells – energy is such a huge factor in other MMO games that it really helps define how a player wants to go. But that would certainly just throw melee players under the bus. In a game like WoW it’s absurd how many ways you can go. Hell, even GW1 had more effective choices. People will play GW2 expecting it to be like MMOs they’re used to and then realize that once they do, they’ve just reduced the game’s longevity by half.

I don’t agree with what you think he said. I’m not buying it. The way he worded it, at least to me, made it clear he was talking about stats. Others seem to agree.

Cuddy.6247:

Progression and variation doesn’t have to stop at vertical ratings. There is also horizontal spread that GW2 lacks when compared to other MMOs. You read into this idea of progression way too negatively to have an open mind about horizontal progression.

Disagree.

Really the only form of vertical progression in the game right now are:
- Leveling 1-80 (obviously), skills and traits.
- Ascended gear (subjective as it’s not necessary for most of the content and only really affects a small portion of players who run high level fractals), and by extension, Agony Resist.
- Legendary weapons (arguably only sought after for the skin, not the stats).

And … that’s it. Once you hit max level and get your exotic gear according to your play style in PvE and WvW, all you have to do is work on appearances with no further stat progression. So far, we’ve gotten content at a wide range of levels: max level with Southsun/Dry Top/Silverwastes, mid levels with Triple Trouble and Tequatl, among other world bosses (even low level world bosses), temporary living world content (which was mostly at mid levels – personally wish these had been more permanent content, but most of it used existing maps without introducing a new permanent zone unlike Season 2).

There are good and bad examples of horizontal progression in game, but there are really very few options for vertical progression. A good example of horizontal progression would be a couple of the Ascended back pieces like Fractal Capacitor (all of the upgrades you make to it are appearance, not stats), Spinal Blades (after the Ascended one, it’s all about appearances and adding an extra infusion slot), etc.

Can they do better with horizontal progression? Absolutely.
Do they have to add vertical progression to give players a sense of accomplishment? Not really. You can achieve the same result by rewarding players fairly for their efforts.

OP has many misconceptions about the game. Frankly, GW2 is one of the easiest, if not the easiest, MMO to return to after a long hiatus.