Guild Wars 2

With this severe content drought and nothing but very specific content aimed at the more hardcore crowd, I can’t help but to feel a bit forgotten. Sure we have current events, but those are nothing compared to the love that the other parts of the game have seen.

Do you think that the casual base is a minority? I have always felt that the casual gamer base was quite populous in GW2, but maybe I was wrong, maybe its full of hardcore players.

I’m just feeling left out lately, waiting for Living World Season 3 is going to be tough. :-(

Many of us feel the same. They have focused so much on the “elitist” game content of late. I think it’s because they are the most vocal on here and in Reddit. Casual gamers don’t really post as much for various reasons which makes me think ANet doesn’t think they exist in big numbers. All they have to do is look at the game stats to see where people go. I imagine the casual games outnumber the elitist gamers big time. They have thrown a few bones out there but for the most part we are ignored.

i just want to know what market is anet focusing now
looks like elitism and toxicity are rewarded
the vocal minority make all the other people looked like minority

Hmmm ,Well can always learn to play a musical instrument . Pretty much bored of wrecking monster all day too. Just play some other stuff (something you didn’t try before) until new content kicks in.

Think of it this way. For years they’ve focused on us and the hard core guys have gotten nothing. Content takes time to make. So they are filling in the blanks now. But next month, most likely. the LS begins again, a new fractal is coming, it just can’t all be done at once.

They have added super casual content with the Krytan bandits bounties, and the layline events. How more casual do you want it? Buy yeah, I get what you mean.

BrotherBelial.3094:

They’ve added super casual content with the Krytan bandits bounties, and the leyline events.

yep, if you have specific ideas for content then post them and if they’re highly rated they could be looked at… but as far as “casual” goes, the ENTIRE core game caters to the casual crowd while the expansion caters to the hardcore, and there’s tons, as a “casual” you should have plenty of drive to go and forge a legendary or something, in the time it takes a casual player to make a legendary you’ll have plenty of new content.

If you mean easier content, ArenaNet has never actually catered to that crowd like most MMOs, where the solo experience is balanced for the lowest of players. The casual players, as in those who simply want to login and play without having to deal with scheduling/groups and in a more casual/relaxed play style, do however make up the vast majority of players in MMOs in general. It’s why most MMOs do it. ArenaNet however has always gone for the niche.

GW1 never supported the casual play style as the game was all about builds. Since casuals are more likely to use random builds, the content could become nearly impossible. With the right setup however, the game was trivial, but casual players generally don’t put in a lot of effort, follow guides, research or etc.

GW2 was originally balanced for action gamers. Like HoT, if you failed to dodge, you were going to die. In fear of scaring off players however, mobile combat was troublesome for WoW players for example, everything was heavily nerfed after the first beta. Their plan however was to increase the difficulty over time in an attempt to improve those players, and people have been complaining about those increases all along, from the karka to the mordrem. What GW2 was supposed to be however was casual friendly, in the sense that you could make meaningful progress in shorter amounts of time, meaning content should be balanced around taking no more than 30-60 minutes.

Season 3 will likely keep on track and have a similar difficulty to HoT. Whether they continue on this path will depend on how much ArenaNet cares about profits, as obviously they’re going to scare people off. ArenaNet however probably didn’t think it was difficult, as you’re clearly expected to zerg in active maps, and you can always group for the story.

To me, the current events is targeting AP hunters than casual gamers.

webtoehobbit.4201:

With this severe content drought and nothing but very specific content aimed at the more hardcore crowd, I can’t help but to feel a bit forgotten. Sure we have current events, but those are nothing compared to the love that the other parts of the game have seen.

Do you think that the casual base is a minority? I have always felt that the casual gamer base was quite populous in GW2, but maybe I was wrong, maybe its full of hardcore players.

I’m just feeling left out lately, waiting for Living World Season 3 is going to be tough. :-(

The so-called hardcore I believe to be people who both play the game as a hobby, and who prefer certain aspects of the MMO genre like progression, working at goals and harder, instanced content. I suspect there are gradations of players with regard to these preferences. I think that the truly dedicated players who also embrace all of the MMO genre staples are a minority.

However, that does not necessarily make casuals a majority. There are large numbers of players who play the game as a pastime but who have a bunch of different desires. I don’t think there’s a single casual demographic. I think it’s difficult to nail down just what casuals want because they don’t seem to all want the same things.

FWIW, the current content drought has lasted since HoT release at the end of October. That’s a total of just about eight months. The drought between the last LS S2 update and HoT release was over nine months. I believe Anet was counting on HoT content keeping open world PvE players busy for quite a while.

I also suspect that new content was delayed at least in part due to the effort put into the revamps to HoT to make it more accessible to “casuals.” Those changes represented a lot of dev time and effort, and were aimed at casuals. So, I don’t think it’s either fair or accurate to say that ANet has forgotten casual gamers.

As to the “love” given to raids, well, they’ve finally gotten the entirety of the one raid (9 bosses) promised to be a part of HoT. That’s after over two years neglect of dungeons, and no new fractals for almost that long. WvW? Those players were given something recently, sure, but that game mode is the one ANet has arguably done the least for.

webtoehobbit.4201:

With this severe content drought and nothing but very specific content aimed at the more hardcore crowd, I can’t help but to feel a bit forgotten. Sure we have current events, but those are nothing compared to the love that the other parts of the game have seen.

Do you think that the casual base is a minority? I have always felt that the casual gamer base was quite populous in GW2, but maybe I was wrong, maybe its full of hardcore players.

I’m just feeling left out lately, waiting for Living World Season 3 is going to be tough. :-(

I’m not sure I agree.

Just about every change to the game ever since the launch of HoT has been to either fix bugs, finish promised content or fix difficult content so a bigger part of the player base can enjoy it (which very likely took some developer ressources delaying other content).

The addition of the raids was planed and already designed around since pre HoT release. To just stop work on them would have been a similar fiasco as deciding to stop the rest of the legendarys.

All the new mini events are absolutely casual friendly. Unfortunately content the size of say the living world episodes takes more time than adding some not voice acted, not instanced, non cinematic stuff. That or the quality would suffer.

Weird, seems like the vast majority of GW2 has casual players as the target playerbase.

They are making content to force people into login in the game rather than experiencing it, simple as that.

Amineo.8951:

They are making content to force people into login in the game rather than experiencing it, simple as that.

Now that is quite a convoluted bit of logic. I guess if they can physically strike some players through there computers they can also force people to log in while at the exact same time prevent them from doing anything else.

I would bet that map, texture and NPC creation takes the most time. Those are already done on maps that are otherwise designed to leave out the casual player. How difficult would it be to find a place to link them in with portals, add waypoints, POIs, drops some NPCs and story events in places. I have no problem with them doing raids on maps first for a few months before they link non-raiding instances as standard maps. Raiding folks would kind of act as beta testers.

As I suggested in another post I suggest they should put a GW1 style pre/post storyline in to give access to map changes depending on the character’s progression in the storyline. Raiders could act on the forefront of players advance into new maps. It would be an interesting way to add new maps.

I don’t know about that. It’s still very casual game, whole april patch was to make it more casual and more accessible for people who have less time (which I love). I don’t think they have forgotten about casual people just becouse they added more raid wings, after all raid Dev team is very small (like 6 people I belive?), they probably work indepently from other teams who work on XPac#2 and LS3.

Vayne.8563:

Think of it this way. For years they’ve focused on us and the hard core guys have gotten nothing. Content takes time to make. So they are filling in the blanks now. But next month, most likely. the LS begins again, a new fractal is coming, it just can’t all be done at once.

That’s neat and all but they’ve built and established a base of casual players over the course of three years the game literally grew and became a name due to those casual bits.

After waiting so long those that would leave the game over lack of hardcore content have left and those that remain and fought for it would have never left the game regardless after such a lengthy space of time.

Switching it up now doesn’t bring back the ones who grew tired of playing and it doesn’t retain those who spent years asking for it. It does however knock out a good portion of those who flocked to the game during the early years.

There are people that will leave and their are people who will take anything and remain the casuals have been catered to yes over the first three years so they had no legit reason to complain then everything changed for them with HoT. However they are not right now because Anet shifted their focus and experience something they want no part in fo the first time in this game many have left. The longer they are gone the higher chance they won’t return as is the case with anything when someone decides to take a break from it.

Okay so, almost all content up until the expansion and raids was super casual and easy, I loved it all but GW2 needs some harder content so I was really happy with HoT and raids since I let me do something that actually takes time and effort, there is still plenty of casual things to do in GW2.

And don’t get me wrong, I’m not an elitist player who hates casuals, do I play casually sometimes myself and I definitely think there should be more casual stuff as well but you really cant blame Anet for giving content to the hardcore players for once in almost 4 years, and don’t give that crap that Fotm is hardcore cause it really isn’t.

I’m sure Anet will push out more casual content soon enough and then you’ll have the hardcore and elitist players being loud on the forums like the casuals are being atm. I think Anet is doing a great job pushing out content for the entire playerbase that everyone can do if they want to put time into it.

I tend to think ‘casual’ primarily means ‘does not spend as much time on that game’, so to my mind casual players are less likely to be affected by breaks between new releases because we’re less likely to have completed everything that’s already in the game.

For example I’m still working on training up my masteries, playing the HoT storyline on a sylvari to see how different it is, crafting my second legendary, doing all the dungeons and Current Events and other bits and pieces of content I’ve not gotten around to, and levelling up new characters.

Whereas more hardcore players have done all of that, probably several times over.

As a casual player, I don’t even read the raid-related news because I will never have the chance to get into a raid so I don’t bother. However, I still have plenty of stuff to do (mostly open world events in SW and HoT maps) so I don’t really care. Let the hardcore people have their fun too.

What I would like to see is more EVENTS (like dragon ball and the zephyrite stuff). The other MMO I play has a 4-week-long event atm (and before that we had another 4-week-long event) and it’s really refreshing to earn event rewards. It would be nice if we had more events in GW2.

Vayne.8563:

Think of it this way. For years they’ve focused on us and the hard core guys have gotten nothing. Content takes time to make. So they are filling in the blanks now. But next month, most likely. the LS begins again, a new fractal is coming, it just can’t all be done at once.

Although i agree content takes time their pace is abysmal. I can list a slew of MMO’s that push out 10 times the content we’ve seen from Anet on a far more regular basis. They need NCSoft to come to the table and start supporting them with the proper amount of development staff they currently extend to their other titles. That and only that will save the game long term. Frankly by now we should have seen multiple new races, lands and classes and the fact that isn’t happening speaks volumes.

As far as the casual v hardcore, it is crystal clear which group has not been served well just by logging in to a declining population and lack of guild members being active. It’s about time they stop deluding themselves and start pushing the content out because if they don’t this will fade into the night for a great many players.

Well I think when they started making HoT alot of the hard core players where clamoring for harder content as gw 2 was a casual game and not focusing on the things most mmo games do which is focus on end game and everything before that is just to get you to the end game. So they listened to these people though they are actually the minority so made HoT how it is, problem is that it may have bee more challenging but it was short so they finished it almost immediately.

I would say that that HoT is targeted at more hard core players because try thought that is what the majority wanted, but clearly that wasn’t the case xD

Biggest issue I see now for them is that they made the best part of the game (Vanilla) free so people won’t buy HoT so they will do what all f2p games do and focus all their efforts on cashshop and let the game slip even further into the abyss.

Other games can manage to bring out raids, dungeons, pvp and pve content simultaneously so I don’t know why Anet can’t.

Except than the super advertised raids wings that less than 20% of the player bother with, Anet only delivered casual content.

- Fractal? you need between 2 minute and 10 minutes to finish one (and since it’s how they work now…) → super casual
- sPvP league? There is nothing more casual than sPvP.
- Semi invisible little event rewarding some AP (bandit/ley line)? casual!
- Cash shop item? lol (imo the cash shop release skin at an unbelievable rate that make one wonder how it’s possible that Anet have issues when it come to release new “free” skins)

That’s all they released since HoT. Sure it feel frustrating that the content have a very slow release rate but it’s not because something is more advertised than the other things that Anet care less to the casual. I believe the “elites” feel the same about how slow the elite content is.

This thread must be a joke. Central Tyria and most events until HoT was made to appeal to the casual gamer. HoT maps can even be zerged like good ol’ maps for mindless farming. Not sure why are you complaining, really.

The bandit and ley line pve things are just a joke, just something slapped together to hopefully keep people interested until ls 3. HoT was Anet spraining their ankle and their efforts after are just a shot in their foot. They can still recover but they won’t be having the player base they had.

Their increased cashshop is because they are essentially f2p now and all of those games fo overboard with that content.

If we wanted raids, we would have played something raid focused, if we wanted esports, we would go to a moba.

If we wanted to play something casual with a good lore then this was the game……was.

I agree that since January, the new stuff has been virtually nothing but Raids, ESL, Raids, ESL. However, hopefully soon that’s now changing now the third raid wing is released.

The ‘Current Events’ is tiding me over nicely though. I’ve been purposely not rushing those achievements because of said content drought.

So, PvP leagues should have been implemented at launch, and the PvPers don’t actually get new content every time a new season comes out, it still the same Year of Ascension achievements.

Raids are made by an independent team, and their development doesn’t effect otherworldly being done on PvE.

You can only assume that Anet is working hard to create the new season of living world, and other content, and I’m frankly tired of hearing all of this endless QQabout how Anet somehow forgot you people. We are all in a content drought, but it’s not like we pay a Monthly fee and are having our money taken and no new content comes out.

If you have nothing to do, leave and come back when there is more content. There is no MMO in the world that can create content faster than the players consume it, so either find something you enjoy or stop playing until something that you do enjoy actually comes out.

Thank you.

I agree with Waffle it takes time to create content and people should take a break or play other games, if you haven’t got anything else to do in game. I rather wait for quality this time around rather then having a rush job that was LS2 and HoT. So no I don’t think they forgotten about the casual player, just taking their time so they don’t make a mess like last time, hopefully.

Gilgamesh VII.8690:

I agree with Waffle it takes time to create content and people should take a break or play other games, if you haven’t got anything else to do in game. I rather wait for quality this time around rather then having a rush job that was LS2 and HoT. So no I don’t think they forgotten about the casual player, just taking their time so they don’t make a mess like last time, hopefully.

But ANet dose not want you to take a brake. If you do you wont spend money in the gem store. I do enjoy people telling people to go play something else, if everyone did that GW2 would be quite empty. The lack of content is hurting everyone. But it’s probably hurting ANets pocket more.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

and I’m frankly tired of hearing all of this endless QQ

Not that I disagree with your initial point, but if you’re tired of Q.Q (for whatever reasons) why do you come to the forums? This is where people come specifically to express their Q.Q-ing!

The only players ArenaNet is concerned with these days are those who spend $10 a week on glider skins.

webtoehobbit.4201:

With this severe content drought and nothing but very specific content aimed at the more hardcore crowd, I can’t help but to feel a bit forgotten. Sure we have current events, but those are nothing compared to the love that the other parts of the game have seen.

Do you think that the casual base is a minority? I have always felt that the casual gamer base was quite populous in GW2, but maybe I was wrong, maybe its full of hardcore players.

I’m just feeling left out lately, waiting for Living World Season 3 is going to be tough. :-(

I don’t think you’re wrong. But look at it from a different perspective: What if you were the raiding type? How long did you have to wait for the first raid? Four years or so, right? And you know that while raid wings are still being released, LS3 and other more “casual” content is coming, too.

They didn’t forget their base. They adjusted their focus to attract and retain a broader audience. We can debate the wisdom of that choice, but as a new player to GW2 this year I’ve enjoyed the content HoT has to offer more than the core game.

It’s somewhat amusing; in this thread there are claims that the playerbase is/has/will be shrinking because of lack of ‘casual’ content. In other words, the game will die without this specific new content.

It brings to mind the ‘Expansion’ threads. Same rhetoric, just plug in ‘expansion’ for ‘casual content’. Also brings to mind the ‘Challenging Content’ threads. Again, same formula, different content.

Rather than taking a break from the game, one (I) should probably take a break from the forums. Lol.

BrotherBelial.3094:

But ANet dose not want you to take a brake. If you do you wont spend money in the gem store. I do enjoy people telling people to go play something else, if everyone did that GW2 would be quite empty. The lack of content is hurting everyone. But it’s probably hurting ANets pocket more.

Anet did this to them self’s because they couldn’t figure out what was the best way to deliver content and is still trying to figure it out 3+ years later, but that is up to Anet to find out. Maybe they are working on content to be drip feed into the game for a few months when LS3 arrives. I hope they figure out what’s the best balance of delivering content during LS3.

If Anet wanted me to spend real money for gems they got to try better with the gem store pricing.

Doam.8305:

Vayne.8563:

Think of it this way. For years they’ve focused on us and the hard core guys have gotten nothing. Content takes time to make. So they are filling in the blanks now. But next month, most likely. the LS begins again, a new fractal is coming, it just can’t all be done at once.

That’s neat and all but they’ve built and established a base of casual players over the course of three years the game literally grew and became a name due to those casual bits.

After waiting so long those that would leave the game over lack of hardcore content have left and those that remain and fought for it would have never left the game regardless after such a lengthy space of time.

Switching it up now doesn’t bring back the ones who grew tired of playing and it doesn’t retain those who spent years asking for it. It does however knock out a good portion of those who flocked to the game during the early years.

There are people that will leave and their are people who will take anything and remain the casuals have been catered to yes over the first three years so they had no legit reason to complain then everything changed for them with HoT. However they are not right now because Anet shifted their focus and experience something they want no part in fo the first time in this game many have left. The longer they are gone the higher chance they won’t return as is the case with anything when someone decides to take a break from it.

But you’re also making the assumption that all casual players are cut from the same cloth. I can assure you they’re not. Some casual players like the stuff introduced in HoT. Some are still working on collections or achievements, or a legendary weapon.

One casual player in my guild refuses to buy mats on the trading post and simple gathers all the time on multiple toons to get the mats she needs for a legendary. She thinks somehow buying them is cheating. I don’t get it myself, but you know, to each his/her own.

Casual people may not raid, but some casuals do enjoy WvW occassionally (or Edge of the Mists) and they can enjoy that more now with more going on there. And yes, there are casual PvPers too, that can still PvP and enjoy changes there.

And on top of that there are plenty of little new events and achievements for casuals to bang away at.

Sure it’s not new zones. Sure it’s not the living story, which is coming.

But to say that there’s nothing at all for casuals to do…well there’s plenty of casuals in my guild who are here since launch that still have stuff to do simply because they haven’t even gotten to everything yet.

Some of them have only recently discovered fractals now that they’re so much easier and they do those for the first time.

AliamRationem.5172:

webtoehobbit.4201:

With this severe content drought and nothing but very specific content aimed at the more hardcore crowd, I can’t help but to feel a bit forgotten. Sure we have current events, but those are nothing compared to the love that the other parts of the game have seen.

Do you think that the casual base is a minority? I have always felt that the casual gamer base was quite populous in GW2, but maybe I was wrong, maybe its full of hardcore players.

I’m just feeling left out lately, waiting for Living World Season 3 is going to be tough. :-(

I don’t think you’re wrong. But look at it from a different perspective: What if you were the raiding type? How long did you have to wait for the first raid? Four years or so, right? And you know that while raid wings are still being released, LS3 and other more “casual” content is coming, too.

They didn’t forget their base. They adjusted their focus to attract and retain a broader audience. We can debate the wisdom of that choice, but as a new player to GW2 this year I’ve enjoyed the content HoT has to offer more than the core game.

The failure in this reasoning is that raids are intruders to the game, there was no justified waiting for raids. I may not remember every word and sound of it, but I really remember how excited I was when I heard that GW2 will be raid free and totally novel in its art of storytelling, including home invasion. Anet was forced to backpeddle quickly on point 2, but they stayed strong in point 1 until last year. And there was justified waiting for harder content, I agree with that. Anet also delivered said content, but people could not be brought to the idea to abandon their zerker toons and were slaughtered relentlessly by karka dishing out retaliation and ducking out of mega damage attacks. worst of all was though that they were forced to play with Joe Gamer, something no reputable pro gamer can actualyl do without being ashamed as it seems.

If this has brought good or bad things to GW2 is up to Anet, but I think the fact that raids have “intruded” the game can´t be disputed. Sadly the winner is writing history.

Torolan.5816:

AliamRationem.5172:

webtoehobbit.4201:

With this severe content drought and nothing but very specific content aimed at the more hardcore crowd, I can’t help but to feel a bit forgotten. Sure we have current events, but those are nothing compared to the love that the other parts of the game have seen.

Do you think that the casual base is a minority? I have always felt that the casual gamer base was quite populous in GW2, but maybe I was wrong, maybe its full of hardcore players.

I’m just feeling left out lately, waiting for Living World Season 3 is going to be tough. :-(

I don’t think you’re wrong. But look at it from a different perspective: What if you were the raiding type? How long did you have to wait for the first raid? Four years or so, right? And you know that while raid wings are still being released, LS3 and other more “casual” content is coming, too.

They didn’t forget their base. They adjusted their focus to attract and retain a broader audience. We can debate the wisdom of that choice, but as a new player to GW2 this year I’ve enjoyed the content HoT has to offer more than the core game.

The failure in this reasoning is that raids are intruders to the game, there was no justified waiting for raids. I may not remember every word and sound of it, but I really remember how excited I was when I heard that GW2 will be raid free and totally novel in its art of storytelling, including home invasion. Anet was forced to backpeddle quickly on point 2, but they stayed strong in point 1 until last year. And there was justified waiting for harder content, I agree with that. Anet also delivered said content, but people could not be brought to the idea to abandon their zerker toons and were slaughtered relentlessly by karka dishing out retaliation and ducking out of mega damage attacks. worst of all was though that they were forced to play with Joe Gamer, something no reputable pro gamer can actualyl do without being ashamed as it seems.

If this has brought good or bad things to GW2 is up to Anet, but I think the fact that raids have “intruded” the game can´t be disputed. Sadly the winner is writing history.

Hard, instanced PvE content was always part of the plan for GW2, going back to before launch. Mr. Johanson even called the explorable dungeons, “the raids.”

• Was there originally content called raids? No.
• Was there an intention there be an equivalent? Yes.
• Did that equivalent provide the challenge ANet originally intended? At first, yes, but that evaporated with time, nerfs to mobs, buffs to player capabilities, and the development of ways to minimally engage with the content and still reap the rewards.
• Did that equivalent content suffer from accusations of elitism and exclusion? Oh, yes!
• Did players buy GW2 because the game was promised to have raid-equivalent content? Certainly.
• Have all of them left due to ANet neglect of dungeons? Unequivocally, no.

So, while raids are a change in the way Anet provides harder, instanced content, they are not in any way “intrusions.”. So, yes, your claim can not only be disputed, it’s spurious.

Git Gud

15+Legendary Insights

Vayne.8563:

But you’re also making the assumption that all casual players are cut from the same cloth. I can assure you they’re not. Some casual players like the stuff introduced in HoT. Some are still working on collections or achievements, or a legendary weapon.

One casual player in my guild refuses to buy mats on the trading post and simple gathers all the time on multiple toons to get the mats she needs for a legendary. She thinks somehow buying them is cheating. I don’t get it myself, but you know, to each his/her own.

Casual people may not raid, but some casuals do enjoy WvW occassionally (or Edge of the Mists) and they can enjoy that more now with more going on there. And yes, there are casual PvPers too, that can still PvP and enjoy changes there.

And on top of that there are plenty of little new events and achievements for casuals to bang away at.

Sure it’s not new zones. Sure it’s not the living story, which is coming.

But to say that there’s nothing at all for casuals to do…well there’s plenty of casuals in my guild who are here since launch that still have stuff to do simply because they haven’t even gotten to everything yet.

Some of them have only recently discovered fractals now that they’re so much easier and they do those for the first time.

Well I’m a realist and i can say with all certainty our guild has dwindled and we were 300 plus strong. You can defend the path they’ve taken and many have but lets be realistic the hardcore they spent weeks and months developing has always in every MMO had a minority of players using that content. If they would have spent all their time developing the same type of content that got people here in the 1st place we would be much better off. Anyone online can make a case for any point they choose but this is pretty bloody inescapable, the majority of players bought the game to play what was advertised and they didn’t sign up for developer of the day content.
Had this game stayed it’s course we would likely be deep into the 2nd expansion and had a sheep ton more area to explore, quests and bosses to go up against and a whole lot more players still playing.
One important thing to remember Vayne is this, you may still have the same amount of players in your guild, though i seriously doubt that but i have no way of knowing, but I’ve watched ours dwindle in half due to the course management took the game in. That is infuriating and was totally unnecessary had they stuck to the original manifest and concept i doubt highly most who stepped into this 3 years ago under it’s premise would have bolted. Raids have not worked in over a decade, certainly not for the majority of games produced, and that along with many other things should have been left where they belong. I guarantee for every raid player there are a hundred who only long for the content that made GW2 so appealing in the 1st place.

Most of the game is for causal playing; I don’t mind if the more hardcore get their share.

They’ve also made HoT zones a lot more rewarding and a bit easier in some spots, so that seemed to be catering to the casual crowd as well.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vayne.8563:

But you’re also making the assumption that all casual players are cut from the same cloth. I can assure you they’re not. Some casual players like the stuff introduced in HoT. Some are still working on collections or achievements, or a legendary weapon.

One casual player in my guild refuses to buy mats on the trading post and simple gathers all the time on multiple toons to get the mats she needs for a legendary. She thinks somehow buying them is cheating. I don’t get it myself, but you know, to each his/her own.

Casual people may not raid, but some casuals do enjoy WvW occassionally (or Edge of the Mists) and they can enjoy that more now with more going on there. And yes, there are casual PvPers too, that can still PvP and enjoy changes there.

And on top of that there are plenty of little new events and achievements for casuals to bang away at.

Sure it’s not new zones. Sure it’s not the living story, which is coming.

But to say that there’s nothing at all for casuals to do…well there’s plenty of casuals in my guild who are here since launch that still have stuff to do simply because they haven’t even gotten to everything yet.

Some of them have only recently discovered fractals now that they’re so much easier and they do those for the first time.

Well I’m a realist and i can say with all certainty our guild has dwindled and we were 300 plus strong. You can defend the path they’ve taken and many have but lets be realistic the hardcore they spent weeks and months developing has always in every MMO had a minority of players using that content. If they would have spent all their time developing the same type of content that got people here in the 1st place we would be much better off. Anyone online can make a case for any point they choose but this is pretty bloody inescapable, the majority of players bought the game to play what was advertised and they didn’t sign up for developer of the day content.
Had this game stayed it’s course we would likely be deep into the 2nd expansion and had a sheep ton more area to explore, quests and bosses to go up against and a whole lot more players still playing.
One important thing to remember Vayne is this, you may still have the same amount of players in your guild, though i seriously doubt that but i have no way of knowing, but I’ve watched ours dwindle in half due to the course management took the game in. That is infuriating and was totally unnecessary had they stuck to the original manifest and concept i doubt highly most who stepped into this 3 years ago under it’s premise would have bolted. Raids have not worked in over a decade, certainly not for the majority of games produced, and that along with many other things should have been left where they belong. I guarantee for every raid player there are a hundred who only long for the content that made GW2 so appealing in the 1st place.

I haven’t raided, so I don’t really have any preference, but the forums were awash with threads lamenting the lack of ‘challenging’ content for months on end. It seems to me that ArenaNet tried to give the playerbase what they clamored for.

Now, of course, the pendulum has swung the other way, so hopefully, we will see whatever it is the playerbase wants now.

Good luck, Devs.

Amineo.8951:

They are making content to force people into login in the game rather than experiencing it, simple as that.

I have to admit . . . there is some truth to this. Even with the short content inserts, it did make me stay in the game an hour or so longer. So, if that was their intent: mission accomplished.

At least for me.

While I’m strongly of the option Anet lost its marbles with Guild Wars 2 as a whole the game has much improved since Colin Johansen has left. It really shows that between the failure of B&S compared against BDO and then Wildstar just before that that NCSoft really has only one good game out there: Guild Wars 2. Johansen finally helped to his hat may give this game some life again instead of broken promises year after year.

For all that here’s small walk around the MMO’s of the last decade:
World of Warcraft
- Increasingly confused development by an inept team of developers who lie and front load their games. It’s in a far worse state of toxification than Guild Wars 2 (though Heart of Thorns pushed us close). This crew of developers is far more out of touch with their player base than any other MMO development team.
- Has also implemented a completely RNG system to gear that will see more subscription die off as a result.

Black Desert
- Dying from the usual Korean story of too RNG, too little game. The game boomed through launch and then took a deep plummet in active players as people realized the only way to progress in the game is at the graces of an RNG machine. With no signs of the company willing to pay any attention to this along with a sever hacker problem the game is dire straights. On top of this it has extortionist level prices for every single cash shop item (some of which has begun to be addressed). The base game costs 30 dollars and then outfits, pets, etc coming in around 30 dollars each (when complete). In short, a single account (30 dollars) plus pets (used for looting and 10% exp bonus) at 10 dollars each (you need 3) and require 3 more (each) for upgrading them… you’re easily talking 100 dollars per character. That’s before you even start to buy (yes buy) respec items (you know… the things you can do on your own in Guild Wars 2 for free).
Black Desert is also a good demonstration of how a uniquely (and frankly) fantastic new (and fluid) ability system can fall flat when players physically become exhausted trying to poor out damage rather than defeat an enemy using skills tactically (toward a mechanical advantage- Something Guild wars 2 and 1 excels with).

Elite: Dangerous
With hundreds of thousands of players has jumped on the RNG band wagon recently with all of the same results. It quickly retracted much of what was to be RNG when even its major YouTubers called fowl. The game is now sitting in precarious straights having developed a time-liked grind system (where there is no storage) after the community (in a community content heavy game) told them “no” in no uncertain terms. As the game relies heavily on player backing you can tell how well that has gone by how silent YouTube has become (in positive reviews) about the game when compared with pre-RNG implementation.

My Personal Opinions (Raids):
Guild Wars 1 and 2 has always attracted the very talented player who enjoys an abundances of skills to trial against a mechanical game environment. Previous to Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2 failed on both these fronts showing no where near the capacity of development and care that had been put into Guild Wars 1 ~ and far too much focus on the Gem Store. It deserves all the hate it generated over the years for doing that. Heart of Thorns has just demonstrated that all things have an end. Including player tolerance.
Every single MMO that tried Time-Gating and RNG this year has had to back off on it. Those that refused are going down in the history of MMOs as the real vile black knights of industry. Fortunately they’re companies do suffer for this and we get our vindication for their lack of loyalty to the consumer who really will just call quits.

The Guild Wars 1 community is finally starting to see content from Guild Wars 1 coming back into Guild Wars 2. The Raids provide a mechanical environment. It’s not dynamic and at least the first several encounters are just skin-of-your-teeth type victories with little ‘play’ involved. So, the Raids really are signs that the game can get back towards something more like Guild Wars 1 where mechanical advantage rather than button smash and skill/key-combos win. All of this is very good.

Where Guild Wars 2 lacks is keeping friends playing with friends. The failure of the Druid to be a Healer all of the time (rather than when it can F3) demonstrates this failure of the developers most adequately. They simply don’t understand that an MMO was meant to be played with friends. The more you make the game ‘solo’ or ‘to be played with those who can do the content’ the more you isolate one friend from another. I’d argue that 90% of any MMO toxification can be resolved in addressing that. Everything else is just the beast of the game being developed (and or maintained without losing its core character. Think of the quote from Prelude to Axanar: “For myself, I have but one fear: Destroying the Dream of the Federation!”

- Same goes for Guild Wars 2 or any MMO.

Moving from easy content to hardcore content is moving from one extreme to another. They’ve made a terrible mistake by not finding “the golden middle” between those. And its a bridge that they’ve crossed and burned behind them.

This topic shows what its only the tip of the iceberg – two different sides, one small and demanding hardcore stuff and second little bigger demanding stuff that is normal.
ANet simply lack resources to satisfy both simultaneously and focusing on one will result a kittenstorm from other + decrease of playerbase.

Well done.

People are never happy with what they got are they? Yea I get you may not have time to raid and what not, but if you cannot set an hour or so to raid ever, then I dont think your ever going to find an mmo that can do that, to casual is just not meant for an mmo, its meant to last you, why do people feel the need to finish it within a week? Thats what single player games are for.

And it isnt hardcore, this is hardcore to you? Really? Because it requires groups? Thats not hardcore at all, that is simply an mmo design, the point of mmorpgs in the first place was for group content.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Amineo.8951:

They are making content to force people into login in the game rather than experiencing it, simple as that.

I have to admit . . . there is some truth to this. Even with the short content inserts, it did make me stay in the game an hour or so longer. So, if that was their intent: mission accomplished.

At least for me.

Every mmorpg has been doing this.

So because I raid, I’m an elitist? FEELSBADMAN

every mmo hits these droughts. I burn through all wow’s content, jump onto GW2. Until the expo hits. If i burn through what i want to do on both these i jump on older mmos i’ve played. Or other games entirely. Hard to picture a true casual player just waiting around posting for more content. Im not a casual gamer at all, been trying to cut back though. GW2 helps with that pretty chill.

Just finished Mythic raiding on wow.
Beat Darksouls 3
Played some Fallout 4 and League, some hearthstone
Tried Blade and Soul liked it but came back to Gw2 and RS in the end.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Torolan.5816:

AliamRationem.5172:

webtoehobbit.4201:

With this severe content drought and nothing but very specific content aimed at the more hardcore crowd, I can’t help but to feel a bit forgotten. Sure we have current events, but those are nothing compared to the love that the other parts of the game have seen.

Do you think that the casual base is a minority? I have always felt that the casual gamer base was quite populous in GW2, but maybe I was wrong, maybe its full of hardcore players.

I’m just feeling left out lately, waiting for Living World Season 3 is going to be tough. :-(

I don’t think you’re wrong. But look at it from a different perspective: What if you were the raiding type? How long did you have to wait for the first raid? Four years or so, right? And you know that while raid wings are still being released, LS3 and other more “casual” content is coming, too.

They didn’t forget their base. They adjusted their focus to attract and retain a broader audience. We can debate the wisdom of that choice, but as a new player to GW2 this year I’ve enjoyed the content HoT has to offer more than the core game.

The failure in this reasoning is that raids are intruders to the game, there was no justified waiting for raids. I may not remember every word and sound of it, but I really remember how excited I was when I heard that GW2 will be raid free and totally novel in its art of storytelling, including home invasion. Anet was forced to backpeddle quickly on point 2, but they stayed strong in point 1 until last year. And there was justified waiting for harder content, I agree with that. Anet also delivered said content, but people could not be brought to the idea to abandon their zerker toons and were slaughtered relentlessly by karka dishing out retaliation and ducking out of mega damage attacks. worst of all was though that they were forced to play with Joe Gamer, something no reputable pro gamer can actualyl do without being ashamed as it seems.

If this has brought good or bad things to GW2 is up to Anet, but I think the fact that raids have “intruded” the game can´t be disputed. Sadly the winner is writing history.

Hard, instanced PvE content was always part of the plan for GW2, going back to before launch. Mr. Johanson even called the explorable dungeons, “the raids.”

• Was there originally content called raids? No.
• Was there an intention there be an equivalent? Yes.
• Did that equivalent provide the challenge ANet originally intended? At first, yes, but that evaporated with time, nerfs to mobs, buffs to player capabilities, and the development of ways to minimally engage with the content and still reap the rewards.
• Did that equivalent content suffer from accusations of elitism and exclusion? Oh, yes!
• Did players buy GW2 because the game was promised to have raid-equivalent content? Certainly.
• Have all of them left due to ANet neglect of dungeons? Unequivocally, no.

So, while raids are a change in the way Anet provides harder, instanced content, they are not in any way “intrusions.”. So, yes, your claim can not only be disputed, it’s spurious.

He called it the equivalent of raids from other games if I remember well, not that there would be raids in general.

Then the players who bought GW2 waiting for a raid did not really pay attention to the receptions it initially got:
GamesRadar’s Hollander Cooper wrote in his review:
“Everything a massively-multiplayer online RPG should be. It’s original, massive in scope, and wonderfully social, removing many of the gates that held back the genre in the past. Being able to play with friends regardless of level or class is a gigantic leap forward, and one that, when mixed in with all of the other innovations in the genre, make Guild Wars 2 one of the best MMOs currently available.”
Computer and Video Games Games Editor Andy Kelly:
“An entertaining MMO that combats the dreaded grind with smart design.”

Call it as you want, playing with your friends regardless of their abilities and/or level is pretty much the opposite of raids. Anyone wh played regularly while waiting 3+ years for a raid surely is much more patient than I am.