Excelsior!
I am not sure what exactly “casual” means, but there are some things and adjectives being thrown around when debating the term “casual” I think I can say that I am EXTREMELY casual.
I have no friends, no guild, no-one to talk to. I log in, do random stuff, log out. I don’t strive for anything shiny, I am not rich (nor poor), I don’t craft, don’t farm. I literally just go step by step, clocking in for some Maguuma night shifts and eventually learn new abilities. Right now I am at 21 of these, uh, “HoT levels” (you know, those sun things, I even forgot their name!). And I am enjoying it so much! Maybe it is exactly the mix of full indepence and mixing it with other games that keeps me cool. My Asura is character #1 and I would put GW2 very high on my enjoy-to-play list, even though I don’t log on (due to aformentioned reasons, I simply have no real “igniter” for the GW2-flame inside me) for days sometimes, I enjoy playing GW2 core and HoT.
Maybe it is because my character is perfect to me (visuals, lore-wise, race-wise, profession-wise), but I feel very well catered from this game. I am coming from FF14 though, where EVERYTHING is either catastrophically bland or gated behind forced group content (ugh!).
So, I am 300% casual, and I am very fine. I unlocked my Daredevil on my own, and I hope ArenaNet stick(ed) to that possibility in PoF as well.
First off welcome back and good timing too.
Since different people will see HoT differently based on their expectations your best bet with PoF is to give it a spin during this open beta weekend and use the initial map as directional concept on how they went with the new XPac. Just get your client patched and you should be good to try it out.
Personally I enjoy the differing levels of HoT and it did take time to gain the masteries to access everything, but that meant more exploration and new things to find. ANet has indicated that they want to continue to expand on movement options and joy of travelling. I think this has represented itself in gliders, and some of the other movement methods we saw in LS3. If you didn’t encounter it since you were away we had one new map in LS3 that allowed a line and grapple/pull system (“spidey”) that by itself was a lot of fun, but also worked well in-conjunction with gliding that gave even more freedom in motion.
I would expect less legacy flat maps but bigger more multi-level maps moving forward, but potentially not to the extent that HoT were. LS3 seemed to try and find a balance between the two. New zones will require masteries though to explore all of it, so if that was an issue I think that might still be present in PoF. As I said, spend the time for the client update and try it for yourself. Either way, welcome back and good gaming to you!
Imo GW2 is the most casual player friendly MMORPG i ever played. You have easy acess to highend gear. No ‘’you must play’’ endgamecontent. The HoT maps are a little bit confusing and the mobs are a little bit harder to handle but if u use dodging and spend a little time with exploring you’ll be fine with it.
Most of the HP in the jungle nowadays you can easily solo or duo.
I think it’s difficult for 1 person to predict what everyone else can or can’t do, as you are doing here. I would change the language to "I used dodging and spent a little time with exploring and I was fine with it.
Most of the HP in the jungle nowadays I can easily solo or duo."
Because none of these things is correct for me, at least.
Go play Super Mario Galaxy to learn how to orient in a 3D environment and then play Bloodborne or Dark Souls to learn how to die and overcome challenges. Then play GW2 and you notice how easy this game is. Players these days… deconstructing the gaming industry since 10 years. I remember the 90ies where there weren’t any masses who complained about the games. Instead you contemplated and asked yourself: what can I do to get better? Stop the whiny kittening and entitlement and overcome the ‘challenge’.
Lol – “go play other games”…what?! If I have to play a platformer to learn to play an MMO, there’s something wrong. And who cares if there are more difficult games? I started playing GW2 because I liked how it was in Core Tyria. Anet fundamentally changed GW2 with HoT and I don’t like it. I don’t care about other games.
My 2 cents of this story: I’m a veteran WvW player and I also like the guild wars story line. So I want to follow it but I don’t like overdone difficulty and I don’t have that much patience fighting against computers, I’d rather play with and against humans.
Some fights in the story line are super annoying. Like the caudecus fight: combination of two-shotting enemies, AoE spam everywhere, ping-pong attacks… it’s hell for some classes (especially those without easy access to stability – and please stop nerfing that :p )
Last story line I actually rage quit gw2 for the first time. I dislike difficulty for the sake of difficulty. Just let me get through the story easily and then I’m back to world versus world. Unfortunately it’s not like that anymore, and I’m not liking the new direction. Sure the world could get a bit more difficult than the main gw2 that’s fine, but don’t overdo it. And give us a way to just go through the story quickly.
(edited by Elvirais.5472)
Like anet ever forget about the casual.
It did.. very much so, with HoT. Which is why I am asking if they decided to remember us with this upcoming expansion.
If you don’t think Anet forgot about the casuals when making HoT.. then.. simply put.. you’re not a casual so would not notice it. No shame in that.
Most people would simply define “casual” as someone who plays on an irregular basis or less than X hours per day.
HoT can be super casual, the events are on all the time, you can literally do one within 30mins anytime of the day, the maps hardly need any of the masteries to get around, I didn’t unlock much of them for weeks or months after launch and played through HoT no worries, casual as.
Hot is super casual unfriendly.
Literally all of the maps are on timers, requiring you to show up at a specific time and commit an hour (verdant brink) or more (Dragons stand) if you want any rewards.
We’ll see today, but, if the living story maps are any indication, anet is going to deliver. Bloodstone Fen was a super casual friendly map. Ember Bay and Lake Doric brought the fun factor, and the last two maps are giant jumping puzzles (and casual friendly because of the play as you want factor). This is a big improvement from Dry Top which was on a timer.
I just returned afyer quiting 9 months after release. Game still seems super casual. I’m playing thru HoT right now and I think the multi level is a bit much at times but I never thought “this is hardcore and not casual”
HoT was mostly awful and definitely not casual-friendly, especially those of us who prefer to mainly play solo. Brutal mobs closely packed together and maps that confounded the capabilities of the mini-map. HoT is the reason I will not be rushing to buy the new expansion. It’s possible the new expansion will be the beginning of the end of my time in the game. Not quite sure yet but I have been treading water for a few months now.
I play solo for about 80% of the time and didn’t have any trouble, aside from the short adjustment period at the start. Manly because I stop playing for 2 years to finish my degree.
Despite coming late to the HoT party there is always an event running or something to do in the HoT maps regardless of time. The only exception is Dragon’s Stand as there is only the big meta running.
The only mobs I really hate are the pocket raptors as they can kill you if you try to run pass them with softer classes, but they are very easy to kill.
I think what OPs problem is more to do with the content of HoT as oppose to being less “causal”. Since how you go about playing hasn’t really changed from the base game, as you can still do what you want, when you want and aren’t forced into one path of action.
(edited by Taberis.8341)
In light of this new clarification I’ve edited my post to suit your requirements. (Note, when I say ‘you’ I don’t mean you personally, it’s just that the alternative is to write ‘one feels’, ‘one can’ etc. and that sounds pretentious.)
I feel like being a casual player actually gives you an advantage in HoT, particularly regarding navigating the maps.
You’re not going in with a checklist of goals you have to complete as efficiently as possible so you can move on to the next set of goals. You’re just going to have a wander around and see what happens. You might have an end-point in mind, whether that’s reaching a particular vista or POI or the next story step or whatever, but it doesn’t matter if you don’t get there.
In the process you will get to know your way around, not by looking at the map and knowing which ‘level’ each thing is on but by remembering how you got there.
Draconis Mons is a prime example. ‘Hardcore’ players will rush through the story, getting to each point as quickly as possible without taking it in then try to start on achievements and struggle to complete them because they don’t know where anything is. Whereas casual players are more likely to take their time to look around and learn thatr the map is a spiral and if you keep going up and left you’ll get to each area eventually.
This was the case with the core game, where exploring was fun, even a relaxing experience. whee dynamic events popped up, here were hearts, POI’s, and just activity happening around you, that was both engaging and fun. Making the Core game, a casual friendly environment.
However, HoT with its mob density, abundance of mobs with break bars, coupled with no clear path to what was around you, including not being able to get POIs, and MP’s that were, as far as the map goes, right next to you, in some cases, paths were totally blocked till timed dynamic events opened them, with no clear way to know how or when these events would come about, made exploring the zones tedium to get through and an exercise in frustration to complete, for me at least.
And that was just the first one, it seemed to get worse with each consecutive map, where upon I simply gave up, and it’s sad, because I really enjoyed doing map Completion. But the way HoT was set up, with no clear direction to get to anything, and needing events to trigger doors or move up and down.. simply soiled the whole thing, again.. just my feels on the matter.
However, HoT with its mob density, abundance of mobs with break bars, coupled with no clear path to what was around you, including not being able to get POIs, and MP’s that were, as far as the map goes, right next to you, in some cases, paths were totally blocked till timed dynamic events opened them, with no clear way to know how or when these events would come about, made exploring the zones tedium to get through and an exercise in frustration to complete, for me at least.
Honestly, players who disliked HoT have long ago quit the game. Those who still play, and also post on the forums, are those who like the HoT content. (I have not played for a year myself, only checking new expansion out).
Most of the post in this, and similar threads, fall into 2 basic catgories:
- I like something so it is GOOD
- if you do not like it then you are BAD player
Yet, the beta content looks fine to me. Map is explorable, no stupid blocks for you to grind some mastery before you can continue. Enemies are normal, and not groups of veterans with crazy skills. There are normal events and so far none have required to play at exact time, use external websites to coordinate your login efforts or other HoT-specific garbage. Maybe these will appear later, but it looks really a lot like playing core GW2 so far.
If you can, try it out yourself. There is no need to torture yourself with HoT content once PoF is released.
HoT was mostly awful and definitely not casual-friendly, especially those of us who prefer to mainly play solo. Brutal mobs closely packed together and maps that confounded the capabilities of the mini-map. HoT is the reason I will not be rushing to buy the new expansion. It’s possible the new expansion will be the beginning of the end of my time in the game. Not quite sure yet but I have been treading water for a few months now.
This, so much this.
I just got to Tangled Depths (after about 2 years of not playing) and boy oh boy does it make me want to uninstall again.
I am the type that enjoys exploring on my own, I don’t mind making the maps vertical, I don’t mind having less Waypoints in the map, but is it really necessary to make put so many monsters can kill you within seconds (godkitten arrow jumping frogs comes to mind) EVERYWHERE?
Is it really necessary to put a RANDOM POOL FULL OF POISON that you apparently need some other mastery to nullify?
Why is it that every other hero points need to be guarded by Champions?
I feel like the game doesn’t allow me to play when/how I want to
I find HoT open world fun and challenging, yet absolutely approachable with my simple playstyle. Most of Central Tyria is boringly easy for me. On the other hand, I can’t even enter into raids without going SPLAT. Am I casual or hardcore?
IMO, Casual and Harcore are terrible concepts because they doesn’t really mean anything. Trying to “take the lead” of an hypotethic group of people by wielding such kind of a word is just a cheap strategy to create a false backup for a highly subjective point of view. Bad form.
TLDR: Speak for yourself, not for some imaginary group of people you represent.
OP, while you may self-identify as casual, there is little agreement among all who so identify. Some think of the word as meaning preference for easy content; others for limited time spent playing; still others for solo-only play. There may be as many understandings of what “casual” means as there are people using the term.
“Casual” is a mindset, or more aptly put, an approach on how someone plays the game. In simple terms, “casual” defines their motive and drive, as opposed to being serious about the game, or hardcore. Truth is, being “Casual” is irrespective of skill or time played. As how many hours someone invests into a game or how skilled they are at playing a game, have no bearing the mindset they have or how they approach the game.
In short, a “Casual” is not looking for a something serious that they have to work at or treat like a job, they are looking to escape into a fantasy world as someone might take a casual stroll in the woods to escape the daily grind of life.
OK, so that is your definition. That’s fine, as long as you realize that not everyone is using the word that way. Frankly, the unhelpful comments you complain about are the result of your using the word casual rather than describing your preferred play-style.
Hopefully, the other comments that you snipped from my post were helpful.
OP, while you may self-identify as casual, there is little agreement among all who so identify. Some think of the word as meaning preference for easy content; others for limited time spent playing; still others for solo-only play. There may be as many understandings of what “casual” means as there are people using the term.
“Casual” is a mindset, or more aptly put, an approach on how someone plays the game. In simple terms, “casual” defines their motive and drive, as opposed to being serious about the game, or hardcore. Truth is, being “Casual” is irrespective of skill or time played. As how many hours someone invests into a game or how skilled they are at playing a game, have no bearing the mindset they have or how they approach the game.
In short, a “Casual” is not looking for a something serious that they have to work at or treat like a job, they are looking to escape into a fantasy world as someone might take a casual stroll in the woods to escape the daily grind of life.
OK, so that is your definition. That’s fine, as long as you realize that not everyone is using the word that way. Frankly, the unhelpful comments you complain about are the result of your using the word casual rather than describing your preferred play-style.
Hopefully, the other comments that you snipped from my post were helpful.
Actually, I fit the definition of casual being a mindset pretty well.
I do not raid, I am not interested in slogging it out to craft legendaries, I don’t need every achievement in the book, I don’t drive myself crazy trying to do jumping puzzles just for an MP. I do what I want, when I want and the way I want.
And, I still enjoy the game. So, I guess you could say that Anet has not forgotten this particular casual.
If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Simple. I’m sure the company has done its research and knows its customer base. After all, they’re in it to make money and satisfying the most players is the way they’ll do that. If their decisions do not fit your playing style, you’re either going to have to find something else to do or be miserable.
However, HoT with its mob density, abundance of mobs with break bars, coupled with no clear path to what was around you, including not being able to get POIs, and MP’s that were, as far as the map goes, right next to you, in some cases, paths were totally blocked till timed dynamic events opened them, with no clear way to know how or when these events would come about, made exploring the zones tedium to get through and an exercise in frustration to complete, for me at least.
Honestly, players who disliked HoT have long ago quit the game. Those who still play, and also post on the forums, are those who like the HoT content. (I have not played for a year myself, only checking new expansion out).
Actually, I dislike HoT and I still play. I just don’t go to HoT except if a daily is there or a collection requires it.
However, HoT with its mob density, abundance of mobs with break bars, coupled with no clear path to what was around you, including not being able to get POIs, and MP’s that were, as far as the map goes, right next to you, in some cases, paths were totally blocked till timed dynamic events opened them, with no clear way to know how or when these events would come about, made exploring the zones tedium to get through and an exercise in frustration to complete, for me at least.
Honestly, players who disliked HoT have long ago quit the game. Those who still play, and also post on the forums, are those who like the HoT content. (I have not played for a year myself, only checking new expansion out).
Most of the post in this, and similar threads, fall into 2 basic catgories:
- I like something so it is GOOD
- if you do not like it then you are BAD playerYet, the beta content looks fine to me. Map is explorable, no stupid blocks for you to grind some mastery before you can continue. Enemies are normal, and not groups of veterans with crazy skills. There are normal events and so far none have required to play at exact time, use external websites to coordinate your login efforts or other HoT-specific garbage. Maybe these will appear later, but it looks really a lot like playing core GW2 so far.
If you can, try it out yourself. There is no need to torture yourself with HoT content once PoF is released.
Thank you very much for this!
OP, while you may self-identify as casual, there is little agreement among all who so identify. Some think of the word as meaning preference for easy content; others for limited time spent playing; still others for solo-only play. There may be as many understandings of what “casual” means as there are people using the term.
“Casual” is a mindset, or more aptly put, an approach on how someone plays the game. In simple terms, “casual” defines their motive and drive, as opposed to being serious about the game, or hardcore. Truth is, being “Casual” is irrespective of skill or time played. As how many hours someone invests into a game or how skilled they are at playing a game, have no bearing the mindset they have or how they approach the game.
In short, a “Casual” is not looking for a something serious that they have to work at or treat like a job, they are looking to escape into a fantasy world as someone might take a casual stroll in the woods to escape the daily grind of life.
OK, so that is your definition. That’s fine, as long as you realize that not everyone is using the word that way. Frankly, the unhelpful comments you complain about are the result of your using the word casual rather than describing your preferred play-style.
Hopefully, the other comments that you snipped from my post were helpful.
Don’t you find it odd that there would be other ways to define “casual” I mean, pause and ponder this for a moment. If you say to someone ’’I’m going for a casual stroll" they don’t think there is some time constraint to the walk, nor do they wonder how sure footed you, might be, or your ability to equip yourself for a walk Everyone instantly understand that it’s a leisure activity, something done for the enjoyment of it, never a question of your capacity to walk, or now much time you have to invest into it, but its fully understood that it’s all about your approach to taking the walk.
Just the same as if someone who is going to go on a casual boat ride, or a casual drive., there is no inclination of question their ability drive a car or a boat, the quality of the vehicle or how long or often the activity is undertaken. Its universally understood that what makes it casual is the mindset of the individual taking the cruse.
Which now begs the question, if we always understood that “casual” was a mindset when talking about any other activity, why do we suddenly get so confused when it gets applied to games?
(edited by STIHL.2489)
If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Simple. I’m sure the company has done its research and knows its customer base. After all, they’re in it to make money and satisfying the most players is the way they’ll do that. If their decisions do not fit your playing style, you’re either going to have to find something else to do or be miserable.
That’s exactly why I stopped playing for a year, I enjoyed and am currently enjoying other games, I came back to test the waters of the Expansions, as.. well you know.. maybe Anet is not All-knowing and realized they made a mistake with HoT, believe this or not, game companies do make mistakes and don’t know their player base as well as some people might think. But they are in the business to make money, and I am simply seeing if my demographic is profitable to them.. if not.. oh well. no Loss on my part.
Most of the post in this, and similar threads, fall into 2 basic categories:
- I like something so it is GOOD
- if you do not like it then you are BAD player
It’s sad that this is the case for these threads, but, the OP did title the thread “Has Anet Remembered the Casuals?”
His definition of casual vs. others’ definition of casual clash heavily. I’m a casual player. I play when I can, and if I have another game I want to play, I’ll play it instead. I’ve done fractals… and one raid—only to unlock the raid masteries—I don’t plan on doing anymore raids.
It’s fine if you don’t like HoT or its content. Honestly, I loved HoT (save TD, though it’s growing on me a little), and I loved playing it. I will be honest and say I struggled with learning the masteries for gliding and the others to make the areas more enjoyable. But I was patient, and my patience paid off and now the HoT maps are awesome.
Again, it’s fine you (the OP) don’t like HoT, you don’t have to play it. The issue here is your definition of a casual player clashes heavily with what most people feel. Raids, and Legendaries are the Hardcore player stuff in GW2. Everything else in the game, IMO, is casual.
If you don’t like the game, don’t play it. Simple. I’m sure the company has done its research and knows its customer base. After all, they’re in it to make money and satisfying the most players is the way they’ll do that. If their decisions do not fit your playing style, you’re either going to have to find something else to do or be miserable.
That’s exactly why I stopped playing for a year, I enjoyed and am currently enjoying other games, I came back to test the waters of the Expansions, as.. well you know.. maybe Anet is not All-knowing and realized they made a mistake with HoT, believe this or not, game companies do make mistakes and don’t know their player base as well as some people might think. But they are in the business to make money, and I am simply seeing if my demographic is profitable to them.. if not.. oh well. no Loss on my part.
Eh, sounds like you have a grip on it and a plan. My only disagreement is with Anet making a mistake with HOT.
I’m no fanboi, but it doesn’t look like the company’s bottom line has suffered because of HOT. If it had, I don’t think we’d have a POF.
But again, to each their own, and thankfully, there are many titles out there to serve us all.
Cheers.
OP, while you may self-identify as casual, there is little agreement among all who so identify. Some think of the word as meaning preference for easy content; others for limited time spent playing; still others for solo-only play. There may be as many understandings of what “casual” means as there are people using the term.
“Casual” is a mindset, or more aptly put, an approach on how someone plays the game. In simple terms, “casual” defines their motive and drive, as opposed to being serious about the game, or hardcore. Truth is, being “Casual” is irrespective of skill or time played. As how many hours someone invests into a game or how skilled they are at playing a game, have no bearing the mindset they have or how they approach the game.
In short, a “Casual” is not looking for a something serious that they have to work at or treat like a job, they are looking to escape into a fantasy world as someone might take a casual stroll in the woods to escape the daily grind of life.
OK, so that is your definition. That’s fine, as long as you realize that not everyone is using the word that way. Frankly, the unhelpful comments you complain about are the result of your using the word casual rather than describing your preferred play-style.
Hopefully, the other comments that you snipped from my post were helpful.
Don’t you find it odd that there would be other ways to define “casual” I mean, pause and ponder this for a moment. If you say to someone ’’I’m going for a casual stroll" they don’t think there is some time constraint to the walk, nor do they wonder how sure footed you, might be, or your ability to equip yourself for a walk Everyone instantly understand that it’s a leisure activity, something done for the enjoyment of it, never a question of your capacity to walk, or now much time you have to invest into it, but its fully understood that it’s all about your approach to taking the walk.
Just the same as if someone who is going to go on a casual boat ride, or a casual drive., there is no inclination of question their ability drive a car or a boat, the quality of the vehicle or how long or often the activity is undertaken. Its universally understood that what makes it casual is the mindset of the individual taking the cruse.
Which now begs the question, if we always understood that “casual” was a mindset when talking about any other activity, why do we suddenly get so confused when it gets applied to games?
I completely agree. Good points.
First off welcome back and good timing too.
Since different people will see HoT differently based on their expectations your best bet with PoF is to give it a spin during this open beta weekend and use the initial map as directional concept on how they went with the new XPac. Just get your client patched and you should be good to try it out.
Personally I enjoy the differing levels of HoT and it did take time to gain the masteries to access everything, but that meant more exploration and new things to find. ANet has indicated that they want to continue to expand on movement options and joy of travelling. I think this has represented itself in gliders, and some of the other movement methods we saw in LS3. If you didn’t encounter it since you were away we had one new map in LS3 that allowed a line and grapple/pull system (“spidey”) that by itself was a lot of fun, but also worked well in-conjunction with gliding that gave even more freedom in motion.
I would expect less legacy flat maps but bigger more multi-level maps moving forward, but potentially not to the extent that HoT were. LS3 seemed to try and find a balance between the two. New zones will require masteries though to explore all of it, so if that was an issue I think that might still be present in PoF. As I said, spend the time for the client update and try it for yourself. Either way, welcome back and good gaming to you!
Thank you , this was very informative, and yes , I was not around for Living World, Season 3, and, I highly doubt that I will be getting involved with it, as it’s old content now, which means less active pugs doing it, so I would be required to solo, and to be honest, I love pugging, one of the special and unique joys of an MMO is the Pug, which of course continually reminds me of a the joke from another game I played.
“If you want a challenge solo the dungeon, if you want a harder challenge, carry a full PUG group though it, BUT, if you want a REAL challenge however.. ask them to help.”
Pretty much the whole open-world in every maps can be considered casual friendly.
This is including HoT maps.
Only thing not casual in this game is pvp and raid.
Actually all of the LW3 content is soloable. And, it’s the most recent content before the expansion.
Well, it’s been a while since I posted, or played for that matter, I hope things have been going well for all of you , that populations are tip top, pugs for dungeons and meta events are plentiful, and that WvW and sPvP are brimming with players. I know most people would dream that a game would collapse behind them when they left, but, I had no such dream, in fact, I hoped things would go well enough to justify a whole new expansion, and it seems it has. So. ta da.. I’m back to check it out .
Now, I left because I was unhappy with the HoT expansion and as opposed to playing a game past its’ point of fun, I simply took my own advice and moved on to other games.
HoT made it clear that Anet was moving away from it’s casual base to cater to other gamer demographics, which is fine, it’s their game, and they have every right to do whatever they want with it, my only option is play or not play , so I opted out, but, I am piqued about PoF, however before I download the game, I am wondering if PoF is more like the Core game, or is it more like HoT.
I’ve been a casual player since the beginning and I beg to differ, STOP catering to these folks who did like HOT.
GW2 was originally intended to force players to EXPLORE not create a DUFFY guide!
But hey cry enough and the game gets the NERF BAT! Even after the NERF BAT folks still can’t solo HOT largely because they do not understand the mechanics of the game and their profession.
HoT was an appalling disaster for them. They did make some changes to be more casual-friendly. But, there are still major issues outstanding IN HOT, such as way more levels of maps than are actually reflected in the world map view, and trash mobs and individual enemies are still way too difficult.
However, in Living Story Season 3, they have corrected most of those flaws. Only one of the six zones is grossly under-mapped like most of HoT was. And, the enemies are further apart and less instantly killing you, like they were in HoT.
There are still grossly overpowering creatures, but you can mostly avoid them now. (Which makes me wonder why they bothered making them at all. ???)
Personally, the only thing holding me back from pre-ordering is their stubborn refusal to admit that the mini-map simply doesn’t work in those over-leveled maps. I’m probably going to buy PoF, but there’s no way I’ll reward them for refusing to communicate.
Ehh multleveled maps doesnt mean they cater to hardcore players. It means they made maps with flavou. A flat zone is just ded boring and uninteresting.
Which now begs the question, if we always understood that “casual” was a mindset when talking about any other activity, why do we suddenly get so confused when it gets applied to games?
That’s easy to answer: hardcores didn’t like being grossly outnumbered on the forums and even more-so in-game. So, they artificially broke up the definition of casual so they could argue against specific subsets of casual play. Thus, they “won” the arguments more.
Unfortunately, ANet believed them, and almost destroyed the game trying to cater to them.
But, being crushed in the marketplace caused ANet to reconsider, and they’ve moved back much closer to where they were in the beginning. Except for mapping, and for failing to nerf HoT mobs a little bit more, I think they’ve done well. They can’t go too far in the casual direction, because the game does have many hardcore players. They don’t want to alienate them any more than they did casual players with HoT.
Which now begs the question, if we always understood that “casual” was a mindset when talking about any other activity, why do we suddenly get so confused when it gets applied to games?
That’s easy to answer: hardcores didn’t like being grossly outnumbered on the forums and even more-so in-game. So, they artificially broke up the definition of casual so they could argue against specific subsets of casual play. Thus, they “won” the arguments more.
Unfortunately, ANet believed them, and almost destroyed the game trying to cater to them.
But, being crushed in the marketplace caused ANet to reconsider, and they’ve moved back much closer to where they were in the beginning. Except for mapping, and for failing to nerf HoT mobs a little bit more, I think they’ve done well. They can’t go too far in the casual direction, because the game does have many hardcore players. They don’t want to alienate them any more than they did casual players with HoT.
Me so gullible, conspire you long time.
the new map is boring /easy,really nothing to do…. casuals will be happy this time(spam 1 ,no need to evade,you can watch tv and play)
A step backward for this game…
(edited by radda.8920)
First off welcome back and good timing too.
Since different people will see HoT differently based on their expectations your best bet with PoF is to give it a spin during this open beta weekend and use the initial map as directional concept on how they went with the new XPac. Just get your client patched and you should be good to try it out.
Personally I enjoy the differing levels of HoT and it did take time to gain the masteries to access everything, but that meant more exploration and new things to find. ANet has indicated that they want to continue to expand on movement options and joy of travelling. I think this has represented itself in gliders, and some of the other movement methods we saw in LS3. If you didn’t encounter it since you were away we had one new map in LS3 that allowed a line and grapple/pull system (“spidey”) that by itself was a lot of fun, but also worked well in-conjunction with gliding that gave even more freedom in motion.
I would expect less legacy flat maps but bigger more multi-level maps moving forward, but potentially not to the extent that HoT were. LS3 seemed to try and find a balance between the two. New zones will require masteries though to explore all of it, so if that was an issue I think that might still be present in PoF. As I said, spend the time for the client update and try it for yourself. Either way, welcome back and good gaming to you!
, as it’s old content now, which means less active pugs doing it, so I would be required to solo
^ that is so wrong. I just played through all LS3 and the maps were plenty and all the metas being done.
Which now begs the question, if we always understood that “casual” was a mindset when talking about any other activity, why do we suddenly get so confused when it gets applied to games?
That’s easy to answer: hardcores didn’t like being grossly outnumbered on the forums and even more-so in-game. So, they artificially broke up the definition of casual so they could argue against specific subsets of casual play. Thus, they “won” the arguments more.
Unfortunately, ANet believed them, and almost destroyed the game trying to cater to them.
But, being crushed in the marketplace caused ANet to reconsider, and they’ve moved back much closer to where they were in the beginning. Except for mapping, and for failing to nerf HoT mobs a little bit more, I think they’ve done well. They can’t go too far in the casual direction, because the game does have many hardcore players. They don’t want to alienate them any more than they did casual players with HoT.
Good to know things were dialed back for HoT, too little, too late for m I’m afraid , but ,I’m downloading the game now, so I’ll check out the PoF expansion
Thank you , this was very informative, and yes , I was not around for Living World, Season 3, and, I highly doubt that I will be getting involved with it, as it’s old content now, which means less active pugs doing it, so I would be required to solo, and to be honest, I love pugging, one of the special and unique joys of an MMO is the Pug, which of course continually reminds me of a the joke from another game I played.
I hated HoT, and only have warmed up to it a little bit. But, LWS3 is actually quite a bit better than HoT was. The maps (except one, Draconis Mons) are much better. You can actually know which level of the map you’re on by looking at the mini-map. Refreshing.
The mobs are also toned down quite a bit.
Finally, the meta events are nothing like HoT metas. No clocks need to be watched, and you can join or leave them pretty much any time.
So, my take is that LWS3 is much better than HoT was. I’m fearful for PoF after the disaster of HoT. But, the individual maps/events/metas in LWS3 are quite good.
First off welcome back and good timing too.
Since different people will see HoT differently based on their expectations your best bet with PoF is to give it a spin during this open beta weekend and use the initial map as directional concept on how they went with the new XPac. Just get your client patched and you should be good to try it out.
Personally I enjoy the differing levels of HoT and it did take time to gain the masteries to access everything, but that meant more exploration and new things to find. ANet has indicated that they want to continue to expand on movement options and joy of travelling. I think this has represented itself in gliders, and some of the other movement methods we saw in LS3. If you didn’t encounter it since you were away we had one new map in LS3 that allowed a line and grapple/pull system (“spidey”) that by itself was a lot of fun, but also worked well in-conjunction with gliding that gave even more freedom in motion.
I would expect less legacy flat maps but bigger more multi-level maps moving forward, but potentially not to the extent that HoT were. LS3 seemed to try and find a balance between the two. New zones will require masteries though to explore all of it, so if that was an issue I think that might still be present in PoF. As I said, spend the time for the client update and try it for yourself. Either way, welcome back and good gaming to you!
, as it’s old content now, which means less active pugs doing it, so I would be required to solo
^ that is so wrong. I just played through all LS3 and the maps were plenty and all the metas being done.
LS3 is no i instance based like all the previous living world stories?
Good to know things were dialed back for HoT, too little, too late for m I’m afraid , but ,I’m downloading the game now, so I’ll check out the PoF expansion
They actually scaled things back about 6 months after HoT released, but you probably missed that (along with other casuals who just gave up in that first 6 months).
More importantly to the game’s future, though, is that the LWS3 maps/events/metas are much closer to core Tyria in terms of difficulty and ability to play solo.
I remember you from when you used to post. I think you would do yourself a favor if you bought the LWS3 package, especially if you’re wavering about PoF. But, if you’re buying PoF for sure, you may not need to buy LWS3. I don’t know how they’re marketing PoF; it’s possible (though unlikely) that it would include LWS3.
LS3 is no i instance based like all the previous living world stories?
The “missions” are in some cases instances and in some cases open-world stuff. Much more open-world stuff than core, but I think that’s an improvement.
If you have not played through LWS3 how can you be critical of it?
I am casual. For me that means I enjoy content that is fun for me, and don’t enjoy content that is annoying for me. Hot was more annoying to play than base game. So for me, it was not casual friendly compared to base game.
Good to know things were dialed back for HoT, too little, too late for m I’m afraid , but ,I’m downloading the game now, so I’ll check out the PoF expansion
They actually scaled things back about 6 months after HoT released, but you probably missed that (along with other casuals who just gave up in that first 6 months).
More importantly to the game’s future, though, is that the LWS3 maps/events/metas are much closer to core Tyria in terms of difficulty and ability to play solo.
I remember you from when you used to post. I think you would do yourself a favor if you bought the LWS3 package, especially if you’re wavering about PoF. But, if you’re buying PoF for sure, you may not need to buy LWS3. I don’t know how they’re marketing PoF; it’s possible (though unlikely) that it would include LWS3.
I am sure quite a few people gave up and left after HoT for various reasons or another, I mean turnover happens, ,and big changes will have that effect on any game, but it does not seem to have stalled Anet or GW2 production, and things seem to be rolling along quite nicely, so much so, we have a new expansion. Which is why I came back.. and am still slowly downloading it.
As it stands at this point, I have no definite plans involving buying anything in regards to GW2, I pre-ordered the HoT expansions.. and.. well fool me once. yah.. anyway.. I am taking a wait and see approach with this right now.
Thank you very much for the response.
To the OP: If you are dissatisfied with the game, I think you’re approaching this the wrong way. From your original post and what I skimmed through since (I apologize if I missed something), I keep seeing you speak in generalities. Generalities are difficult to turn into anything constructive. I’m assuming that you wish the game to change for the better and aren’t here to troll. Specifics are what you need to improve anything. What are some specific instances of how HoT failed your expectations? What are some contrasting examples of how the original game succeeded?
I do further question what you REALLY want here. Your idea “casual” seems pretty murky to me (again though, generalizations do that). We may simply fundamentally disagree here. It sounds like your definition of casual involves a lack of challenge. Mine involves a lack of time constraints. I don’t mind a challenge so long as there isn’t a clock on it…and so long as there isn’t too great a penalty for failing. I like to explore when I wish, progress at my own pace, and not have to struggle to keep up with a gear progression treadmill. If I fail, I don’t want to work for long in order to try again. This game meets my type of casual VERY well. Yours…again, I’m struggling to understand. That’s why I think specifics would help. …and fewer generalizations may help diffuse the general mood of this topic. (Generalizations leave everyone to their own assumptions and that makes constructive discourse difficult.)
I’d also be curious whether you’ve played HoT lately. Whether your impressions of the expansion still hold true today. Like many have mentioned, the game WAS re-tuned to be less punishing (and more than once, I believe).
(edited by JackOfAllGames.2409)
Casuals ruin games. Case in point : World of Warcraft.
I’m by no means hardcore anymore, i work 40 hours a week + go to school part time, i only have a few hours a day (if any at all) to game and i have no trouble finding ways to entertain myself.
The casualification of WoW is what essentially killed it, its what gave birth to all the queue systems, its what killed server and guild communities, its what removed any incentive for people to actually interact with each other, its what caused (ironically) people to start treating each other like disposable bags of kitten in any form of group content because of the systems introduced above. Its what also made Blizzard devs think that rewarding the best gear in the game through pure RNG was a good idea, instead of actually rewarding people who bother putting the time into their game.
Please for the love of god, don’t ask them to make the same mistakes here.
Real casuals don’t need to have a game tailored to their needs, they can easily set their own goals and have their own fun, this game has more than enough ways to do so if you’re even mildly creative.
(edited by Griever.8150)
You can “git gud” but you cant really “git worse” at the game. Why should my exeprience a watered down version of what it could be because some ppl cant be kitten d to give a little bit more effort to “git gud”
See., if we are going to be candid with each other, I belonged here from the start.. You never did.
That’s assuming the game was advertised as a casual game, which never happened.
The game was labeled as casual-friendly by the community based on some features like the absence of grind and gear treadmill (which are indeed casual-friendly, but can also appeal not-so-casual players), while ignoring other not-so-casual (but still enjoyable for many casuals, ofc) aspects like one of the most active combat system among MMOs and a significant focus on PvP.
The game has always been on a quite weird spot in terms of appeal.
To the OP: If you are dissatisfied with the game, I think you’re approaching this the wrong way. From your original post and what I skimmed through since (I apologize if I missed something), I keep seeing you speak in generalities. Generalities are difficult to turn into anything constructive. I’m assuming that you wish the game to change for the better and aren’t here to troll. Specifics are what you need to improve anything. What are some specific instances of how HoT failed your expectations? What are some contrasting examples of how the original game succeeded?
I do further question what you REALLY want here. Your idea “casual” seems pretty murky to me (again though, generalizations do that). We may simply fundamentally disagree here. It sounds like your definition of casual involves a lack of challenge. Mine involves a lack of time constraints. I don’t mind a challenge so long as there isn’t a clock on it…and so long as there isn’t too great a penalty for failing. I like to explore when I wish, progress at my own pace, and not have to struggle to keep up with a gear progression treadmill. If I fail, I don’t want to work for long in order to try again. This game meets my type of casual VERY well. Yours…again, I’m struggling to understand. That’s why I think specifics would help. …and fewer generalizations may help diffuse the general mood of this topic. (Generalizations leave everyone to their own assumptions and that makes constructive discourse difficult.)
I’d also be curious whether you’ve played HoT lately. Whether your impressions of the expansion still hold true today. Like many have mentioned, the game WAS re-tuned to be less punishing (and more than once, I believe).
I’m not a game designer, so I have no idea what would be “fun”, I am simply a gamer, I simply play something and if I like it, I will keep playing it, and if I don’t, I stop. I don’t sit around and pontificate on what would make a game, as truth be told, I don’t know. Hence my general question, has Anet put in things designed to entertain a casual gamer like myself, if not, meh.. I’ll move on. But I don’t have any special requests, beyond ’entertain me" , it is on Ant to figure out what would do that. That is why they make the games, and I just play them.
To coin a Phrase by Henry Ford.
“if I asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse”
With that said… Ok.. I want a faster horse… where is my car?
Casuals ruin games.
No, whiners ruin games.. no matter what their playstyle.
Don’t you find it odd that there would be other ways to define “casual” I mean, pause and ponder this for a moment. If you say to someone ’’I’m going for a casual stroll" they don’t think there is some time constraint to the walk, nor do they wonder how sure footed you, might be, or your ability to equip yourself for a walk Everyone instantly understand that it’s a leisure activity, something done for the enjoyment of it, never a question of your capacity to walk, or now much time you have to invest into it, but its fully understood that it’s all about your approach to taking the walk.
Just the same as if someone who is going to go on a casual boat ride, or a casual drive., there is no inclination of question their ability drive a car or a boat, the quality of the vehicle or how long or often the activity is undertaken. Its universally understood that what makes it casual is the mindset of the individual taking the cruse.
Which now begs the question, if we always understood that “casual” was a mindset when talking about any other activity, why do we suddenly get so confused when it gets applied to games?
Perhaps because there is a specific definition of the word casual as it is used in video games which states that either skill, time commitment or both are defining factors.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/casual
Words evolve. We either adapt and use them as they are being used in specific contexts or we don’t. Stick with your definition if you like, but you will continue to be misunderstood by some posters and some of the information you get will be unhelpful as a result.
It’s a theme park game in which you do mini games to farm materials/currencies. Not everyone’s type of game.
Casuals ruin games. Case in point : World of Warcraft.
I’m by no means hardcore anymore, i work 40 hours a week + go to school part time, i only have a few hours a day (if any at all) to game and i have no trouble finding ways to entertain myself.
The casualification of WoW is what essentially killed it, its what gave birth to all the queue systems, its what killed server and guild communities, its what removed any incentive for people to actually interact with each other, its what caused (ironically) people to start treating each other like disposable bags of kitten in any form of group content because of the systems introduced above. Its what also made Blizzard devs think that rewarding the best gear in the game through pure RNG was a good idea, instead of actually rewarding people who bother putting the time into their game.
Please for the love of god, don’t ask them to make the same mistakes here.
Real casuals don’t need to have a game tailored to their needs, they can easily set their own goals and have their own fun, this game has more than enough ways to do so if you’re even mildly creative.
Just to throw it out there, this was a far more impressive post than your previous one.
Almost certain the devs are ‘wary’ given STINL’s response to this post so I wanted to intervene and see if we can’t discuss both viewpoints with provided examples.
Let’s not get confrontational, debate is probably the best discourse.
Don’t you find it odd that there would be other ways to define “casual” I mean, pause and ponder this for a moment. If you say to someone ’’I’m going for a casual stroll" they don’t think there is some time constraint to the walk, nor do they wonder how sure footed you, might be, or your ability to equip yourself for a walk Everyone instantly understand that it’s a leisure activity, something done for the enjoyment of it, never a question of your capacity to walk, or now much time you have to invest into it, but its fully understood that it’s all about your approach to taking the walk.
Just the same as if someone who is going to go on a casual boat ride, or a casual drive., there is no inclination of question their ability drive a car or a boat, the quality of the vehicle or how long or often the activity is undertaken. Its universally understood that what makes it casual is the mindset of the individual taking the cruse.
Which now begs the question, if we always understood that “casual” was a mindset when talking about any other activity, why do we suddenly get so confused when it gets applied to games?
Perhaps because there is a specific definition of the word casual as it is used in video games which states that either skill, time commitment or both are defining factors.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/casual
Words evolve. We either adapt and use them as they are being used in specific contexts or we don’t. Stick with your definition if you like, but you will continue to be misunderstood by some posters and some of the information you get will be unhelpful as a result.
How ironic, don’t you think that the “gamer” definition has no relationship to the actual definition . Wonder why that is?
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