Guild Wars 2

@ xsquared.1926 and maddoctor.2738 you guys are showing how good self healing is and that’s not what I am talking about. I am talking about when it come to healing other ppl who don’t have healing gear on

And if you goin to post STOP with the dedicating heal I am not talking about that either, I am talking about a dps/healer like the one we have on the game now but more efficient.

Drakent.9605:

@ xsquared.1926 and maddoctor.2738 you guys are showing how good self healing is and that’s not what I am talking about. I am talking about when it come to healing other ppl who don’t have healing gear on

And if you goin to post STOP with the dedicating heal I am not talking about that either, I am talking about a dps/healer like the one we have on the game now but more efficient.

That’s the thing, because the self healing is so powerful, unless your running with a pug group in a dungeon who don know their classes or the dungeon, group healing doesn’t need to be powerful.

And this is coming from someone who wants to craft their own legendary but will have to pug CoE since I’m in mostly all clerics and I’m not good enough as an ele to go to the meta. Nor good enough at rotations to do all the support stuff an ele does in a speed run.

Useless skills were purposefully designed to trick us into thinking that players could do anything else other than DPS or throw might/ reflects/ blocks at melee range to the party. But oh my god, those useless skills must NEVER become useful.

That’s the idea I’m getting from the people who are justifying those useless skills so that the dreaded trinity does not exists!

Or else, this totally-not-primitive dps dominance comes at the risk of being replaced by build diversity! Oh, god, the horror!

GW2 is a good game at many things. But it is not at everything. This game’s PvE balance and pve design are looked upon as awful by the mmo community, and no, it’s not because those players are “stuck” to a single mentality. A mmo can certainly have good, challenging, balanced pve content without a trinity. GW2, however, isn’t that mmo yet.

I’m made healers out of every class except thief (and I haven’t tried since the introduction of the healing venom which you can share so thieves might actually be pretty decent healers these days…). You don’t need healers for speed runs but they can go a long way towards stabilizing a more casual dungeon/fractal party. You hear a lot about elementalists as healers, but I’ve found Mantra-Mesmers to push bigger numbers as needed. Warrior (banner perma-regen + horn cleanse) and Guardian (Battle Presence + Empowering Might) both provide a good mix of steady heals and decent damage contribution. Great players don’t need it. Many good players don’t need it either, but newer folks still learning the content get a lot bigger window to see what’s happening with some Support in their party. And healer builds can be obnoxiously effective in WvW zergs where there is always someone to catch the waves of green numbers you give off and the enemy can’t be dodged in their entirety like most dungeon bosses. My WvW commander runs around with constant AoE healing and it toughens the militia up nicely.

Drakent.9605:

@ xsquared.1926 and maddoctor.2738 you guys are showing how good self healing is and that’s not what I am talking about. I am talking about when it come to healing other ppl who don’t have healing gear on

And if you goin to post STOP with the dedicating heal I am not talking about that either, I am talking about a dps/healer like the one we have on the game now but more efficient.

Multiply the self heal by 5 then. There’s your group heal.

Also, you say you want to be a healer and when we give you examples it’s too much of being a healer and you want to be a DPS at the same time? Make up your mind. If you go flat out DPS you won’t be a healer to someone else, and if you go full out healing you wont hit at all.

I don’t get OP. It’s all about rotation, you will never simply have strong heals, you build up a strong heal by popping small regens and proc’s here and there whenever it fits the situation.

As an elementalist, I find healing a very cool experience and I can provide awesome support for the party with a bard-ish style gameplay (6/0/0/4/4, might/fury stacking with heal and cond. removal with S/D), or full Staff healer (0/2/0/6/6, Aquatic Belevolence is OP).

DiogoSilva.7089:

Useless skills were purposefully designed to trick us into thinking that players could do anything else other than DPS or throw might/ reflects/ blocks at melee range to the party. But oh my god, those useless skills must NEVER become useful.

there are barely completely useless skills and your thesis is completely childish. Yes, that was Anets plan to lead us all astray – really???

DiogoSilva.7089:

That’s the idea I’m getting from the people who are justifying those useless skills so that the dreaded trinity does not exists!

a system where another player can outheal your incoming damage leads inevitably to the boring trinity setup.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Or else, this totally-not-primitive dps dominance comes at the risk of being replaced by build diversity! Oh, god, the horror!

build diversity exists, dps + something else. Support abilities are not necessarily tied to trait points.

DiogoSilva.7089:

GW2 is a good game at many things. But it is not at everything. This game’s PvE balance and pve design are looked upon as awful by the mmo community, and no, it’s not because those players are “stuck” to a single mentality. A mmo can certainly have good, challenging, balanced pve content without a trinity. GW2, however, isn’t that mmo yet.

yes, but looked down upon for other reasons. And yes, exactly because those players are “stuck”.

Drakent.9605:

@ xsquared.1926 and maddoctor.2738 you guys are showing how good self healing is and that’s not what I am talking about. I am talking about when it come to healing other ppl who don’t have healing gear on

And if you goin to post STOP with the dedicating heal I am not talking about that either, I am talking about a dps/healer like the one we have on the game now but more efficient.

What exactly do you want for supportdps/healer builds?

More damage per second or higher heals per second?

@OP: I run a healing warrior build. I love it because I get to take the typical “dps” class and load her up with healing that i can switch on the fly between shout heals and banner heals depending on the situation and game type i might be playing while still offering some decent damage with her bow. I’ve run her in PvE and helped my team facetank kitten near everything with a few banners, and even did the same in some dungeons. In WvW I swap between the banner and shout builds depending on how active I need to be or how sneaky/passive I can be. Heal builds are very viable in the game as it is.

What I find interesting about GW2 is that posts whose premise is “healing is broken” means UP if the poster is talking about PvE and OP if about PvP.

Part of the ‘problem’ is that DPS is the ultimate gauge of how long it takes to run a dungeon, since every dungeon has a relatively fixed number of HP to chew through. The higher the DPS, the faster you chew through that HP and get to the reward. Therefore, the other two legs hold up the Damage leg – Control keeps the enemies where you want them to keep hurting them, and also keeps your guys up by negating enemies: Dead or Stunned = 0 Damage. Same with support, but it works by multiplying the force of the others to directly improve Damage Output, and also keeping down Damage-reducing conditions.

Going full DPS can be a higher-risk playstyle for faster rewards, and also reduces the chance of error. Parties with more emphasis on control and support take longer, but, while they have a greater chance of error, also have a greater margin for it.

Healing scales extremely poorly. Check the spreadsheets, it’s a joke.

Healing builds are the most broken of all, makes you unkillable without even the need to dodge.

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

Drakent.9605:

Skan.5301:

This game revolves around mainly pure DPS. Run anything but that and you’ll have broken traits, builds sets, individual skills, and whatever else can be broken.

That’s all there is to it. There’s nothing anyone can do but the Devs and they can fix it; a small chance though, since, as you yourself said in the title, it’s been over a year and it’s still broken.

Eh no this game is not revolve around pure dps that’s your mentality of the game

this game came be play with 5 healers build or 5 tank build it will still do the job, just b/c 5 dps does it faster it doesn’t make the game to be revolve around dps

Um, no. Ok, the IDEA of the game is absolutely what you’ve been talking about. Support was INTENDED to be a thing and important. The REALITY of the game is that they never designed it properly, and broke the mob mechanics that would have made it functional, resulting in a game where DPS is king and all other methods of play do nothing more than slow down how fast everything dies.

This is not an opinion. This is not my way of playing. This is how the game actually physically works.

The OP is correct that there is no decent HEALING builds worth running in this game.

What the OP does not seem to understand is that this was a design choice to eliminate the “Looking 4 Healer” messages in chat…..good riddance (IMO).

Since dedicated Healers are not needed, there is no need for a “decent” dedicated healing build and nobody at Anet ever acknowledged that the lack of such a role was in anyway something that needs to be fixed (or added). The OPs insistence that the role is broken is wrong….it does not exist (for a good reason).

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drakent.9605:

Skan.5301:

This game revolves around mainly pure DPS. Run anything but that and you’ll have broken traits, builds sets, individual skills, and whatever else can be broken.

That’s all there is to it. There’s nothing anyone can do but the Devs and they can fix it; a small chance though, since, as you yourself said in the title, it’s been over a year and it’s still broken.

Eh no this game is not revolve around pure dps that’s your mentality of the game

this game came be play with 5 healers build or 5 tank build it will still do the job, just b/c 5 dps does it faster it doesn’t make the game to be revolve around dps

Um, no. Ok, the IDEA of the game is absolutely what you’ve been talking about. Support was INTENDED to be a thing and important. The REALITY of the game is that they never designed it properly, and broke the mob mechanics that would have made it functional, resulting in a game where DPS is king and all other methods of play do nothing more than slow down how fast everything dies.

This is not an opinion. This is not my way of playing. This is how the game actually physically works.

Lmao you have no clue what you are talking about

as you can see maddoctor.2738 has link videos of none dps build facetanking dungeon with no problem. There are videos of youtube of 5 cleric build group vs 12 zerg group , that’s to show you how insignificant dps can be with the proper group set up

Just b/c 5 dps group can down a dungeon much faster then any group set up on the game doesn’t make it the king!!!! that’s just Opinion not a fact So I would suggest for you to learn the difference before you try to shub your garbage of a thought on ppl throat

Nick.6972:

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

Sorry?

It’s happening.

Moss.5371:

It’s happening.

Lmao

To be honest OP I don’t really understand your complaint. On one hand you say healing is broken and then you say your healing build is fine and sometimes needed.
However you seem to want to get the same dps as a pure damage build with healing gear… which is non sense.

As said by many in your build + gear you adjust a cursor between three variables : damage (pure damage or condi damage) , support (offensive one or defensive) and control (defiance stripping in pve and non damaging condi).

The game is made so that by essence you always have a bit of those (you are your main healer by skill 6, many skills add vuln/blind/weakness, and by having 916 base power you will do some damages). Then it is up to you to twist this basis and emphasize something else. As you said you can put 5 pure healers in a dungeon and get through it but you then have to let other things aside (condi length for control and power for damage).

What people say (and this is mostly true) is that if you want to go fast then you should choose 5 zerks/sins. Ultimately people prefer to do 5 paths in the evening and earn 5 times a dungeon chest rather than once.

You said the game was design so that everyone can play whatever he wants and as people demonstrated it’s feasible with 5 pure DPS and as you said it is also with 5 healers. Hence there is nothing broken by itself since everyone can do it

Now it is obvious that both settings won’t perform the same. 5 zerks don’t have too much place for mistakes, they have to dodge every big abilities and use there healing ability wisely (not talking about healing signet here :/). 5 healers have more space for errors as there life bar can be replenish easily and then what they loose is the time factor.
In between those extreme settings you have plenty of people running mixed stats that perform in an average time with some errors allowed.

To finish support is not only healing and aggresive support by using fire combos don’t require too much of healing stat and help DPS. You could also add some boon dur to enhance this aggressive support with minimal loss of damage but most of people do it by traits (1/3 of tha max boon duration obtainable) and are satisfied so or they know they can add a new stack so frequently that they don’t bother with boon dur. So I don’t think anything is broken build-wise but only that the reward versus time is not equal in different setup as reward versus risk/skill is (more or less),

ok to the ppl who keep posting with I am confuse about my issue with healing.

As I keep saying in gw2 you can go as any build on dungeon run and do good , which is pure dps or condition or a buffer but if you try to be a single healer build class on 5 man dungeon is completely useless.

As a single healer build in 5 man group your OUT GOING heals do almost nothing to the group and not just that but your dps is also gimpy making you dead weight to the group

As I explain before I DO NOT run 5 man zerk run, do not like it , I find it boring , love puging with random ppl and there a lot of ppl out who don’t know how to play there class or don’t know much about the dungeon it self b/c of this I like to build a class that helps other to perform better and this can be done.

I have made a build with my guardian that helps any random group with worst dps to become either decent dps or great dps . This is a might stacker support build.

Now I have try other route of game play where instead of helping player to increase there dps I wanted to help them to stay alive and this where the problem hits, It cant be done.

Drakent.9605:

ok to the ppl who keep posting with I am confuse about my issue with healing.

As I keep saying in gw2 you can go as any build on dungeon run and do good , which is pure dps or condition or a buffer but if you try to be a single healer build class on 5 man dungeon is completely useless.

As a single healer build in 5 man group your OUT GOING heals do almost nothing to the group and not just that but your dps is also gimpy making you dead weight to the group

As I explain before I DO NOT run 5 man zerk run, do not like it , I find it boring , love puging with random ppl and there a lot of ppl out who don’t know how to play there class or don’t know much about the dungeon it self b/c of this I like to build a class that helps other to perform better and this can be done.

I have made a build with my guardian that helps any random group with worst dps to become either decent dps or great dps . This is a might stacker support build.

Now I have try other route of game play where instead of helping player to increase there dps I wanted to help them to stay alive and this where the problem hits, It cant be done.

Im not sure worst dps can be made into decent or great dps. also warrior/ele.

by helping them stay alive you are feeding a crutch. they need to learn how to protect themselves unless you will protect them in every group till they stop playing.

I think the op is saying healing support in comparison to other support options is pretty kitten useless.
Like we may as well not have healing power or regeneration because they both are terrible. Whereas other boons (might, fury, prot, aegis, vigor), conditions, and cc excel anything you could ever do with healing power.
Generally speaking, “healing” support is no where near on par with the rest of the support options and therefore has little (niche) to no use.

The Guardian class can heal very effectively, the catch is that there’s no ally-to-ally skill micro in this game. So in order to distribute your heals, you have to activate them within a certain radial range of your allies. Being that the Guardian is a capable heavy armor melee class, you can jump into the fray to accomplish this if needed.

Some aspects of the old trinity design are still present while the Heal/DPS/Tank roles are most definitely still present in some form or another. It’s just not as straight forward as in other games.

Drakent.9605:

This is a pure support class

That is where your logic falls apart. There are no “pure support” classses in this game, due to there being no trinity. Sure, you can make a class more supportive than dps, but it is still not a true support class, such as other mmos(ones with the trinity) have.
And depending on the build, that ‘pure support’ class that you have supposedly built, can also be built as more of a hybrid dps/tank class, as well, depending on the player’s build.

As long as you feel that you should be able to have a ‘pure support’ class in this game, then you will always be miserable and disappointed with the build and its intended lack of pure support healing, due to the game intentionally having no trinity.

I also have to agree with the above post. Mooty makes some very valid and good points about the hybrid support/melee build, such as the Guardian. You have to think differently about a support build’s role/tactics……due to no trinity, you have to play them differently than a true healer from other trinity style mmos.

I, for one, like that there is no trinity in this game. But, having come from mmos that had true support classes, I do admit that it did take some getting used to.

This has to be a troll, come ooon

There are 8 “pure support” classes. All of them can do it. That’s what trait line 4 is in every class. A few can go a little further because they get some support effects in line 5 and some get a tiny bit of support in their stock, un-traited weapons.

Nike.2631:

There are 8 “pure support” classes. All of them can do it. That’s what trait line 4 is in every class. A few can go a little further because they get some support effects in line 5 and some get a tiny bit of support in their stock, un-traited weapons.

actually there are 7 support classes and necromancer (in pve that is)

Drakent.9605:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drakent.9605:

Skan.5301:

This game revolves around mainly pure DPS. Run anything but that and you’ll have broken traits, builds sets, individual skills, and whatever else can be broken.

That’s all there is to it. There’s nothing anyone can do but the Devs and they can fix it; a small chance though, since, as you yourself said in the title, it’s been over a year and it’s still broken.

Eh no this game is not revolve around pure dps that’s your mentality of the game

this game came be play with 5 healers build or 5 tank build it will still do the job, just b/c 5 dps does it faster it doesn’t make the game to be revolve around dps

Um, no. Ok, the IDEA of the game is absolutely what you’ve been talking about. Support was INTENDED to be a thing and important. The REALITY of the game is that they never designed it properly, and broke the mob mechanics that would have made it functional, resulting in a game where DPS is king and all other methods of play do nothing more than slow down how fast everything dies.

This is not an opinion. This is not my way of playing. This is how the game actually physically works.

Lmao you have no clue what you are talking about

as you can see maddoctor.2738 has link videos of none dps build facetanking dungeon with no problem. There are videos of youtube of 5 cleric build group vs 12 zerg group , that’s to show you how insignificant dps can be with the proper group set up

Just b/c 5 dps group can down a dungeon much faster then any group set up on the game doesn’t make it the king!!!! that’s just Opinion not a fact So I would suggest for you to learn the difference before you try to shub your garbage of a thought on ppl throat

I’m sorry I fed the troll. Believe whatever you want. Watch whatever you want. It doesn’t change the fact that healing is as worthless a stat as all the stats that don’t do damage in this game. Can you build for them? Yes. Am I built for them? Yes. Does this change the fact that DPS is king and that the only stats that matter in PvE are damage stats? No, no it doesn’t.

Do whatever you want, but you, sir, are the one with no clue. All that matters is damage. Kill the boss in as short a time as possible, avoid getting hit. You don’t need healing. Done.

Drakent.9605:

ok to the ppl who keep posting with I am confuse about my issue with healing.

As I keep saying in gw2 you can go as any build on dungeon run and do good , which is pure dps or condition or a buffer but if you try to be a single healer build class on 5 man dungeon is completely useless.

As a single healer build in 5 man group your OUT GOING heals do almost nothing to the group and not just that but your dps is also gimpy making you dead weight to the group

As I explain before I DO NOT run 5 man zerk run, do not like it , I find it boring , love puging with random ppl and there a lot of ppl out who don’t know how to play there class or don’t know much about the dungeon it self b/c of this I like to build a class that helps other to perform better and this can be done.

I have made a build with my guardian that helps any random group with worst dps to become either decent dps or great dps . This is a might stacker support build.

Now I have try other route of game play where instead of helping player to increase there dps I wanted to help them to stay alive and this where the problem hits, It cant be done.

Blinds? Aegis?

Also, how is healing any more fun? Look at LoL as a great example nobody in their mind really wants to play support really. The only thing that healing has the potential to do is to make you feel heroic for a short period of time which iono why that is needed anyhow.

zaw.6741:

Nike.2631:

There are 8 “pure support” classes. All of them can do it. That’s what trait line 4 is in every class. A few can go a little further because they get some support effects in line 5 and some get a tiny bit of support in their stock, un-traited weapons.

actually there are 7 support classes and necromancer (in pve that is)

I’ve done Heals/Support with a necro. Its whacky as all heck (popping in and out of “Heal Shroud”…) but you can build it and it’s fun to play. I have two level 80 necros and one of them is a group-minded well-o-mancer: you can put some nice group-wide protection on the floor with wells.

CuRtoKy.8576:

Also, how is healing any more fun? Look at LoL as a great example nobody in their mind really wants to play support really. The only thing that healing has the potential to do is to make you feel heroic for a short period of time which iono why that is needed anyhow.

That YOU don’t happen to be part of the gaming population that enjoys Support gameplay doesn’t mean I’m crazy . Some of us measure victory by ‘did the team win?’ While this game full-on panders to the DPS crowd there are plenty out there where other roles than damage make or break those efforts.

To the OP : You seem to be just saying that something is bad (because you personally aren’t happy) and must change without saying how anything new will work. This is always going to get you into an argument on a forum. What you want this healing build to do is seemingly heal bad players who haven’t the skill to defend themselves, while applying as much dps as you like. This isn’t going to be good game play. It isn’t going to vary with the content. It’s just a crutch for bad players.

You have not come to grips with the group healing in GW2 which necessarily works differently from the single target healing of other MMOs. A group heal for 2000 on five players is 10000 healing, a big number, but it will not save a specific player from going down. Scaling the healing upwards to be 5000 each or 8000 each is just going to get silly. Targeting players for direct heals is not going to happen.

There is an suggestion that healing does not scale at all in more difficult content, whilst protection and aegis type skills will protect more as mobs hit harder. If you want to make a suggestion how healing could scale upwards with content difficulty then people might be willing to listen.

There are a few targeted direct heals – but the targeting is target the ground where its needed, or point the cone the right direction. Not click the party interface.

If anything, healing in this game takes more situational awareness than the usual MMO. It also calls for staying where you’re needed and managing the same risks as the frontline face-smashers. And you dang well better be dishing some DPS too.

It’s a little like playing Ginger Rogers to all the Fred Astaire’s — you have to do everything the “leading man” does, only backwards and in high heels.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drakent.9605:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drakent.9605:

Skan.5301:

This game revolves around mainly pure DPS. Run anything but that and you’ll have broken traits, builds sets, individual skills, and whatever else can be broken.

That’s all there is to it. There’s nothing anyone can do but the Devs and they can fix it; a small chance though, since, as you yourself said in the title, it’s been over a year and it’s still broken.

Eh no this game is not revolve around pure dps that’s your mentality of the game

this game came be play with 5 healers build or 5 tank build it will still do the job, just b/c 5 dps does it faster it doesn’t make the game to be revolve around dps

Um, no. Ok, the IDEA of the game is absolutely what you’ve been talking about. Support was INTENDED to be a thing and important. The REALITY of the game is that they never designed it properly, and broke the mob mechanics that would have made it functional, resulting in a game where DPS is king and all other methods of play do nothing more than slow down how fast everything dies.

This is not an opinion. This is not my way of playing. This is how the game actually physically works.

Lmao you have no clue what you are talking about

as you can see maddoctor.2738 has link videos of none dps build facetanking dungeon with no problem. There are videos of youtube of 5 cleric build group vs 12 zerg group , that’s to show you how insignificant dps can be with the proper group set up

Just b/c 5 dps group can down a dungeon much faster then any group set up on the game doesn’t make it the king!!!! that’s just Opinion not a fact So I would suggest for you to learn the difference before you try to shub your garbage of a thought on ppl throat

I’m sorry I fed the troll. Believe whatever you want. Watch whatever you want. It doesn’t change the fact that healing is as worthless a stat as all the stats that don’t do damage in this game. Can you build for them? Yes. Am I built for them? Yes. Does this change the fact that DPS is king and that the only stats that matter in PvE are damage stats? No, no it doesn’t.

Do whatever you want, but you, sir, are the one with no clue. All that matters is damage. Kill the boss in as short a time as possible, avoid getting hit. You don’t need healing. Done.

Is not about what I believe or not , is all about fact which I have and you don’t, you are just stuck with the mindless set play of dps is the only way and that’s find if hack and slash is what you enjoy great but again don’t shub the mindless Idea that the game was build on just solid dps when is not, just stick at what you know and keep it to your self don’t pass the diseases over

Nike.2631:

CuRtoKy.8576:

Also, how is healing any more fun? Look at LoL as a great example nobody in their mind really wants to play support really. The only thing that healing has the potential to do is to make you feel heroic for a short period of time which iono why that is needed anyhow.

That YOU don’t happen to be part of the gaming population that enjoys Support gameplay doesn’t mean I’m crazy . Some of us measure victory by ‘did the team win?’ While this game full-on panders to the DPS crowd there are plenty out there where other roles than damage make or break those efforts.

Thanks for your support happy to know I am not the only none dps junky out there

blakdoxa.7520:

I think the op is saying healing support in comparison to other support options is pretty kitten useless.
Like we may as well not have healing power or regeneration because they both are terrible. Whereas other boons (might, fury, prot, aegis, vigor), conditions, and cc excel anything you could ever do with healing power.
Generally speaking, “healing” support is no where near on par with the rest of the support options and therefore has little (niche) to no use.

Finally some 1 that understand what I am talking about, and here I thought I was the only 1 that knew that the world is round on this crazy world where the meta think the world is flat

CptAurellian.9537:

Hell, you can even AFK-facetank a spider queen solo.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but pulling her to that spot is an exploit that prevents her from using her most powerful attack, is it not?

I’ll concede the point when you show me the video of someone facetanking her in the middle of the room she spawns in.

Corian.4068:

CptAurellian.9537:

Hell, you can even AFK-facetank a spider queen solo.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but pulling her to that spot is an exploit that prevents her from using her most powerful attack, is it not?

I’ll concede the point when you show me the video of someone facetanking her in the middle of the room she spawns in.

actually no is not a exploit b/c her most powerful attack is a aoe poison field that she uses only when you out of range, the only reason for tanking the boss on this area is avoid the gargoyles

Running cleric gear, or specific healing build in PvE ins absolutely pointless.
In WvW, I run full Cleric, while I’m “Tanky”, I still can’t outheal the insane condition spam.
As I said earlier, Healing Power scaling is abysmal too, the difference between 900 and 1300 Healing Power is too little and almost not noticeable.

Healing suffers the same syndrome than condition damage. It’s it meh in PVe, but become god tier in PVP. It have to be a nightmare to balance.

Algreg.3629:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Useless skills were purposefully designed to trick us into thinking that players could do anything else other than DPS or throw might/ reflects/ blocks at melee range to the party. But oh my god, those useless skills must NEVER become useful.

there are barely completely useless skills and your thesis is completely childish. Yes, that was Anets plan to lead us all astray – really???

DiogoSilva.7089:

That’s the idea I’m getting from the people who are justifying those useless skills so that the dreaded trinity does not exists!

a system where another player can outheal your incoming damage leads inevitably to the boring trinity setup.

It was not childish, it was sarcasm.

There’s also a difference between “outhealing everything” and “healing just enough to be worth it”. GW2’s heal skills are greatly underpowered in PvE.

Drakent.9605:

ok to the ppl who keep posting with I am confuse about my issue with healing.

As I keep saying in gw2 you can go as any build on dungeon run and do good , which is pure dps or condition or a buffer but if you try to be a single healer build class on 5 man dungeon is completely useless.

As a single healer build in 5 man group your OUT GOING heals do almost nothing to the group and not just that but your dps is also gimpy making you dead weight to the group

As I explain before I DO NOT run 5 man zerk run, do not like it , I find it boring , love puging with random ppl and there a lot of ppl out who don’t know how to play there class or don’t know much about the dungeon it self b/c of this I like to build a class that helps other to perform better and this can be done.

I have made a build with my guardian that helps any random group with worst dps to become either decent dps or great dps . This is a might stacker support build.

Now I have try other route of game play where instead of helping player to increase there dps I wanted to help them to stay alive and this where the problem hits, It cant be done.

Why can’t it be done?

This is just something I put together now, I don’t mean this is the best healing build(and I have no experience outside when I used to roam with my guard in WvW in full clerics) ever but I’m just using it as example to show you how powerful outgoing heals to allies can be in PvE.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJApdl8ApXoNDxUI0ENRCBl5M+P2foFr4yA0AA-TxRBABWcCAcUJ4nq/k1+Dhp8TQ9AA8AAIFAyKjA-e

This is what you get:

1) 2245 aoe heal when you dodge, that’s 2245 burst AoE heal every 10 secs or 4490 AoE burst heal every 20 seconds and this assumes you get no vigor at all. (monk rune factored in)

2) Symbol of Faith ticks for 286 heal/second (monk rune factored in)

3) Symbol of Faith applies regeneration that ticks 405 heal/second (monk rune factored in)

4) Superior Sigil of Water will AoE heal for 682 when it procs, and it will proc alot when you’re dropping symbol on cooldown while autoattacking specially with multiple targets. Not sure how will this interact with Monk runes but just add 10% if it works with Monk runes.

5) Healing Breeze ticks for 1051 heal in a cone, 3 ticks. (monk rune factored in)

6) Tome of Courage Skill, Heal Area, AoE heals for 2366 spammable for 20 secs(so that’s 47,320 AoE heal over 20 seconds)

I may be off a little with the math, didn’t test monk runes applying correctly to all outgoing heals just remove 10% from outgoing heals if they are bugged(because we all know it’s normal for sigils/runes to be bugged in this game).

Anyway, can you truly claim that all those heals do almost nothing for the group?

@Izaya.2906
everything paper may look good but the results is the issue.

I my self have spend plenty of gold trying to make a good healing build for pve dungeon to end up useless, the problem is that at end you heal about 20% of your groups HP about every 8 to 10 sec when a boss or a group of mobs can take down 60% of a person HP under 5 sec

Drakent.9605:

@Izaya.2906
everything paper may look good but the results is the issue.

I my self have spend plenty of gold trying to make a good healing build for pve dungeon to end up useless, the problem is that at end you heal about 20% of your groups HP about every 8 to 10 sec when a boss or a group of mobs can take down 60% of a person HP under 5 sec

Wait, so you want to keep everyone at 80-100% health all the time regardless of eating that 60% hit instead of them mitigating it themselves(or you mitigating it for them via aegis/blinds)?

Given your example, lets look at 18k HP and loses 10.8k hp and 5 seconds recovery time.

2,245 from selfless daring, 4,490 if you decide to double dodge.

286×5 from symbol heal for a total of 1,430 hp recovered.

405×5 from regen heal for a total of 2,025 hp recovered.

682 proc from sigil of water(ICD is 5 secs 30% on hit)

6382 or 8627 healed in those 5 secs is a fary cry from being 20%.

That will put them back up to 13.5k hp IF they decided to just stand there and take that 60% hit.

Sure it’s maybe 20% heal if they have 31, 910 hp but who the hell runs that outside fronlining/commanding in WvW?

This also doesn’t include you popping heal #6 & elite.

The thing is, the game is already too easy for people right now(whether it be horrible mechanics, or broken damage skills, or just a plain easy tank and spank), dumbing it down even more by allowing you act as a healbot to get people up to 80-100% constantly that they don’t even have to bother using active damage mitigation isn’t going to help.

I don’t feel healing is broken, it seems to be in the right spot. On the other hand, healing power doesn’t seem to make a good primary stat or stat for that matter since even according to Anet healing is the least dynamic support.

Healing is not useless when the party is not able to withstand the damage taken. When a pug is not as experienced in dungeon, healing is good way to support, along with protection boon and aegis. But the central concept of GW2 is allow player with good skill to be able to use berserker gear and survive. Their reward is time, speed dungeon run. The game has been out for almost 2 years, players have been playing the same contents couple hundreds times, there is nothing wrong for them to run berserker gear and speed clear content. But there are always new players and they will be wipe in a blink of eye for unfamiliar contents. There its where healing support shines.

Nike.2631:

CuRtoKy.8576:

Also, how is healing any more fun? Look at LoL as a great example nobody in their mind really wants to play support really. The only thing that healing has the potential to do is to make you feel heroic for a short period of time which iono why that is needed anyhow.

That YOU don’t happen to be part of the gaming population that enjoys Support gameplay doesn’t mean I’m crazy . Some of us measure victory by ‘did the team win?’ While this game full-on panders to the DPS crowd there are plenty out there where other roles than damage make or break those efforts.

You didn’t answer my question. I didn’t say I hate healing which would warrant your response. I specifically ask what is fun about healing. If someone enjoy it then I am sure there will be a good reason. Yet nobody answers that question for some odd reason. My experiences show me that support isn’t something a majority of people want to play (LoL as an example).

Also, healing is a type of support. Support can exist without healing. So just because healing isn’t viable doesn’t mean that a game has no support. This seems like a common idea around here. DPS gameplay revolves around support. Aegis? Blinds? These are all support. Protection? Reflects? Stability?

High DPS kills bosses fast. That is a win for the team. How is that not? Aegis protects your team. Blinds protect your team. How is that not support? How is that not measure of victory for your team? You killed the boss. You finished the dungeon.

As I have stated there is only one reason I can think of that people would want a dedicated healer role. The reason is that you can be heroic. For example, clutch heal prevents you from wiping. And for other MMORPGs this saves your group from having to redo a dungeon or raid. Then you will be viewed as heroic by your teammates. Outside of that what other reason would one like healing? I see it as one dimensional and it isn’t really needed in GW2. Nobody has really flushed out the reason why they find healing fun.

Drakent.9605:

@Izaya.2906
everything paper may look good but the results is the issue.

I my self have spend plenty of gold trying to make a good healing build for pve dungeon to end up useless, the problem is that at end you heal about 20% of your groups HP about every 8 to 10 sec when a boss or a group of mobs can take down 60% of a person HP under 5 sec

While I disagree with the incredibly intolerant notion that non-full DPS players must be “bads” who “don’t know how to dodge”, your healing builds are actually quite effective-they just won’t be “meta” anytime soon because they don’t do as much damage (of course they do some damage, and that’s fine.) You are not meant to use your healing stat and skills to make up for all the other players healing-that’s all, and by design. As it now stands, Zealot’s for instance is a good example of gear a Guardian could use to provide reliable, solid minor group heals while still be able to dish out better damage than Cleric’s (not saying that Cleric is worse, as it’s just more defensive in nature in comparison.) While truly you don’t “need” healing power stat, I find it rather useful-just don’t expect to convince people that it must be seen essential, as it isn’t, but indeed it can be fun, as you have found yourself.

I have my Berserker’s characters too, but by no means am a “DPS junkie”. I just believe healing power is working as intended. My Guardian used to sport full healing power gear the first few months, not for WvW or because I “didn’t know how to dodge” (much less stayed in the back with a staff, as is often ridiculously claimed of “Cleric Guardians”), but because I found the heals quite effective for my guildies and random players around me. The reason I don’t go “full heal” anymore isn’t because “healing sucks” but because I prefer a better balance now, lest the monsters take too long too kill. While I don’t mind ANYONE using full healing builds (it’s not my business how others play, or how they “should” play), I prefer something more balanced so that I don’t lose too much offense in my attempt to heal others.

That said, ANet did give all Professions ways to use healing gear effectively-the issue is that you won’t necessarily convince 100% of players that you are indeed being effective, especially if they are part of the “only efficiency matters” crowd. Of course I wish healing power was more respected, but at this point I am happy just to consider it a working playstyle that isn’t meant to be understood/appreciated by all.

In the end, have fun with whatever floats your boat, and don’t care too much about the few jerks who will belittle you for not doing things their way. DPS IS fine, and so is healing power-please don’t take it as a challenge/insult, because it’s far from the case.