Guild Wars 2

the basic healing skills are strong for no investment, but investing in healing power brings you no where,

and to people who post links of static parties finishing a dungeon with cleric gear, this is a joke as the same party will finish this dungeon naked.

just like obal and his party killed Lupi very fast while everyone in healing gear, but their damage is higher than the average “zerker” pug. it is not because “cleric” gear is OP, it because the group is very good.

basic healing (with zero healing power) should be much much lower, and scaling with healing power should be better.
this will not break PVP, but make PVE better.

You don’t need to be rT for facetanking, since there’s no skill involved in it anyway. And no, your suggestion will break PvP and won’t do any good to PvE.

Lalangamena.3694:

basic healing (with zero healing power) should be much much lower, and scaling with healing power should be better.
this will not break PVP, but make PVE better.

I definitely support this. Healing Power should matter as an attribute.

Building for reactive damage mitigation is part of a skill – Sure, some say that it’s better to dodge/block.. but sometimes, you need to be able to stand your ground to keep pressure on the enemy in face of pressure against you, especially in PvE where enemies have enough HP and never dodge, instead allowing them to stand firm and keep pressure on in face of the party’s onslaught.

I hope people realize this is a troll thread.

OP’s logic is Heals to your party are too weak in a game without a dedicated healer.

And

Dps is not king, because it’s the fastest way to play PvE.

/end thread

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

I have not crunched the numbers myself, but the consensus opinion seems to be that investing in healing power as a trait line is a joke. That’s the only thing I’d like to see addressed: if somebody really invests in healing power, make it worth their while some how.

Elementalists often trait into the healing power traitline, but that’s because the vitality and the traits in that line are good.

Zomaarwat has it right – many professions have passive healing skills for party members, Mesmers do as to many other professions. Having a dedicated Healer makes no sense at all. The OP did not prove his point or provide any reasons other than ‘it is broken’.

This game was designed to NOT have a Trinity-style play and yet the OP wants to have it. GW1 was a trinity-style game but you could get away with not having ANY healers at all – people don’t remember the ‘Yellow-way’ build – that is how GW2 was designed – support of each other not one player supporting all the others.

The problem with healing power lays in both skill design and scaling.

I see healing power as the opposite of power as a stat, in that power is a useful stat in almost every situation regardless of equipment, traits or utilities while healing power is only useful with a few specialized builds (many classes have simply too few methods of applying it, other than their healing skill).

Healing power also has extremely low scaling for the point investment compared to any of the offensive stats, and is less useful for survival in short fights than direct defensive stats (it pulls ahead of vitality in longer ones though).

I think rather than flatly increasing healing power scaling, it’d be better to give it a secondary effect or synergy with another stat. Preferably something that brings value to the group, be it a modification to mob behavior, damage boost, skill recharge increase, or whatever. It’d be better if this was active in some way – for example if your healing gave you charges you could then use for some other purpose like damage or boons, or if it gave an extra effect to your healing skill like a weak version of a rune-set. I dunno, maybe that’s too much effort.

Or alternatively to couple a scaling increase with a cap so that investment beyond a certain point is less worthwhile – so that mixing in some healing power became more worthwhile and going all in was discouraged (as opposed to simply discouraging any investment in healing power at all as it is for many classes/specs at present even for healing themselves). If for example if healing abilities didn’t scale but could instead crit, and 600 healing power was 100% crit chance then there would be no point in further investment.

Anyways my ideas are dumb but you get the idea. There’s no reason healing power can’t be reworked a bit without totally changing the game, destroying everyones builds or flippping SPVP/WVW upside down.

Well pretty much you got 2 group of ppl the one that don’t care about healing and the one that feel that healing isn’t strong enough.

The group that doesn’t care about healing all they been talking about is plain and simple ( healing is fine where it is because we don’t really need it ) But just b/c is not need it doesn’t mean that some of us shouldn’t use it.

Is not like I am asking anet to create a new play style b/c all the tool are all rdy in the game to be a suppor dps/healer the problem is healing tool aren’t as effective as other buffing tools. For example Regeneration is a joke b/c it effect by the person own healing stats instead of the 1 that casted

Err…. which group should I belong to then ? Because I think that healing can be useful in some situations as discovery of a new dungeon, helping new people but I don’t think it is underpowered.

Investing in healing power can be useful. I play quite often “healer” with my mesmer just to change gameplay in dungeon and I’m happy with what I’m supposed to do which is buying time to my teammates so that their healing skill is up. The best healer is and has to remain the player himself.

I usually run something like 900 healpow (weapon+armor+trait) which add 20% to shatter heal, 80% to regen, 13% to personnal heal and 7% to mantra heal… plus signet/runes heals. In fact the scaling decrease with the effectiveness of the heal, you boost small heal and almost don’t affect big heals which can be arguably considered as fair.
If any change should be made to healpow I would say that retaliation and/or might should scale with it (e.g might could be a +25…35 power from 0 to 1500 healpow) but I’m unsure of the result and how much “damage” teams would be affected.

The only thing you complain about is that you can’t keep a whole noob team alive alone. While I’m not sure if it is because a some sort of God complex or that you really want to help people going further in the game(I assume the second is the right one) I don’t think it would serve the game to have babysitter build. It is better for player to improve their gameplay to be able to clear a dungeon. It’s ok to buy them some time by making their HP pools go down slower but ultimately they have to know that their healing is their responsability.

Drakent.9605:

So am I am the only one that notices this, I haven’t read 1 single post about the healing issue and is the only game play I find broken on this game.

I read complain about condition play style but there nothing wrong with unless you a bad player and haven’t figure it out how to play it properly.

have read complains on how the only way to play on this game is pure dps which is incorrect because there are support build that are base on sacrificing some of your dps but will be increasing your team dps by stacking might or by stacking condition invulnerability on mobs

But the only build that doesn’t work is the healing build. Is complete garbage no matter how hard you try and I speaking on pve and wvw gameplay.

The only way a healing build works in pve if you have 2 or 3 healers on the group and honest who wants to bother with that, all you doing is slowing down the fight.

So am I the only one that cares?

Condition builds only work on 1 v 1, in a world boss because of the way it stacks from other players you aren’t gonna do any damage.
Same in dungeons, 2 Condi players in the party is a waste since the game will “deny” damage to 1 of them.

Healing is not broken, its working as intended, you’re NOT spouse to out heal the damage mobs or other players deal.

When you hear people say “DPS is the only way to play” they’re pretty much right.
Why? In a trinity MMO you have 90% of your player base playing DPS, 9% Tank, and 1% Healer, the queue times for a DPS player in those kind of games are ridiculous and you are held back because you need someone to play a healer.

In GW2 you’re responsible for your survival and your heals, and obviously dealing damage, the most you can.
Does that mean you have to go full DPS? No, you have to deal as much as you can so that’s the number one thing you have to bring to a party, but you can (and sometimes you should) open hand of some DPS to bring some support.

But again, at the end of the day, you need to bring damage, if you bring more of something else chances are you are probably doing it wrong in GW2.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Drakent.9605:

So am I am the only one that notices this, I haven’t read 1 single post about the healing issue and is the only game play I find broken on this game.

I read complain about condition play style but there nothing wrong with unless you a bad player and haven’t figure it out how to play it properly.

have read complains on how the only way to play on this game is pure dps which is incorrect because there are support build that are base on sacrificing some of your dps but will be increasing your team dps by stacking might or by stacking condition invulnerability on mobs

But the only build that doesn’t work is the healing build. Is complete garbage no matter how hard you try and I speaking on pve and wvw gameplay.

The only way a healing build works in pve if you have 2 or 3 healers on the group and honest who wants to bother with that, all you doing is slowing down the fight.

So am I the only one that cares?

Condition builds only work on 1 v 1, in a world boss because of the way it stacks from other players you aren’t gonna do any damage.
Same in dungeons, 2 Condi players in the party is a waste since the game will “deny” damage to 1 of them.

Healing is not broken, its working as intended, you’re NOT spouse to out heal the damage mobs or other players deal.

When you hear people say “DPS is the only way to play” they’re pretty much right.
Why? In a trinity MMO you have 90% of your player base playing DPS, 9% Tank, and 1% Healer, the queue times for a DPS player in those kind of games are ridiculous and you are held back because you need someone to play a healer.

In GW2 you’re responsible for your survival and your heals, and obviously dealing damage, the most you can.
Does that mean you have to go full DPS? No, you have to deal as much as you can so that’s the number one thing you have to bring to a party, but you can (and sometimes you should) open hand of some DPS to bring some support.

But again, at the end of the day, you need to bring damage, if you bring more of something else chances are you are probably doing it wrong in GW2.

While it’s true every person’s ultimate healing depends on his/her character, not on any healer’s, there’s nothing inherently wrong in the other approach either (meaning, stacking healing power if the player so wishes to do so-it works, just doesn’t make the character a “healer” per se which is intended). It’s only an annoying problem when the game throws at you time-gated “DPS tests”, which IMHO it shouldn’t, but that’s another discussion. Healing Power only loses its luster in an all-efficiency team (which you are seemingly taking for granted as “the right way to play GW2”), but not all players have such a bias, regardless of skill (I.E. whether a player is “good” or “bad”, he isn’t defined as such just because of the gear he/she wishes to use for his/her characters.)

It is also ludicrous to say that stacking healing power is selfish because it’s not the fastest way to play. :P Always a bad argument, because it assumes that the other player is only thinking about himself/herself, which isn’t at all the case. The only thing that you can say is “true” is that Healing Power is “inefficient when I only care about speed”, but it isn’t selfish (or denotes “bad play”) to stack it, and most people who do have such builds affect others’ survivability without of course doing all the healing for them, as these shouldn’t.

In short, “not needed” but powerful as the supplementary healing tool it’s meant to be. I will never belittle anyone for using healing stats in their builds. Not my business how they should play their characters, nor does it gives me any right to guess/rate their GW2 PVE skills. It does its work well, even if perhaps it will never be “meta.”

All characters bring damage, BTW-even if you had zero Power in your gear, the so-called “wet noodle attacks” do inflict damage. No one ever said that having Healing Power has anything to do with refusing to use attacking/offensive skills. It’s more about the way you play than the gear you use.

(The above is not meant to say that Healing Power is-or should be-“as good as DPS” for speedruns, but more to state it’s not useless at all for others approaches to the game that do not involve world speedclear records. It will never be a “wasted stat” with some playstyles out there, which are pretty valid and sanctioned by traits ANet has officially offered players.)

Drakent.9605:

Well pretty much you got 2 group of ppl the one that don’t care about healing and the one that feel that healing isn’t strong enough.

The group that doesn’t care about healing all they been talking about is plain and simple ( healing is fine where it is because we don’t really need it ) But just b/c is not need it doesn’t mean that some of us shouldn’t use it.

Is not like I am asking anet to create a new play style b/c all the tool are all rdy in the game to be a suppor dps/healer the problem is healing tool aren’t as effective as other buffing tools. For example Regeneration is a joke b/c it effect by the person own healing stats instead of the 1 that casted

no, that is not a correct summary of this thread at all. You are ignoring every single reason and explanation – and they were given thoroughly and plentiful – why your approach is wrong. As is your privilege in internet forums – just don´t expect us to take your deliberations serious then.

Drakent.9605:

Well pretty much you got 2 group of ppl the one that don’t care about healing and the one that feel that healing isn’t strong enough.

The group that doesn’t care about healing all they been talking about is plain and simple ( healing is fine where it is because we don’t really need it ) But just b/c is not need it doesn’t mean that some of us shouldn’t use it.

Is not like I am asking anet to create a new play style b/c all the tool are all rdy in the game to be a suppor dps/healer the problem is healing tool aren’t as effective as other buffing tools. For example Regeneration is a joke b/c it effect by the person own healing stats instead of the 1 that casted

I’m actually pretty sure that the groups are.

People who understand how the game is currently built and that without a complete redesign and rebalance of the entire game, which won’t happen, healing will never be at the level you seem to think it should, regardless of who wants it.

And those who seem to think wishing and hope will change the world.

Star Ace.5207:

I will never belittle anyone for using healing stats in their builds. Not my business how they should play their characters, nor does it gives me any right to guess/rate their GW2 PVE skills.

Never is an absolute. I hope you realise that. I personally will belittle when needed.

Staff ele camping water making it rain but no one needs healing… you can be sure I will belittle. 3 words 10 seconds to comply " Fire or kick"

DonQuack.9025:

Star Ace.5207:

I will never belittle anyone for using healing stats in their builds. Not my business how they should play their characters, nor does it gives me any right to guess/rate their GW2 PVE skills.

Never is an absolute. I hope you realise that. I personally will belittle when needed.

Staff ele camping water making it rain but no one needs healing… you can be sure I will belittle. 3 words 10 seconds to comply " Fire or kick"

You’re also not Star Ace, therefore your reactions are completely irrelevant to what S/he would or would not do, nor the likelihood of those reactions.

I also would never belittle someone for running a healing build. Who am I to comment on someone else’s build? I will belittle someone for not running the encounter correctly, and not being able to deal with the mechanics, but not for what their build is.

This doesn’t change the fact that I understand DPS is king, I just don’t care and refuse to regiment myself or anyone else to that fact. I’m not worried about speed, only success.

DonQuack.9025:

Star Ace.5207:

I will never belittle anyone for using healing stats in their builds. Not my business how they should play their characters, nor does it gives me any right to guess/rate their GW2 PVE skills.

Never is an absolute. I hope you realise that. I personally will belittle when needed.

Staff ele camping water making it rain but no one needs healing… you can be sure I will belittle. 3 words 10 seconds to comply " Fire or kick"

Surely. I never belittle at all. It’s not needed. You play how you want, let others play how they want. I don’t kick others for doing things differently-the only way it’s justified is when the person signed up for one thing and ended up doing another just to annoy (if you take for granted that “no one should use healing rain” but it was never stated anywhere, then yes you are being a jerk for kicking him/her-what if he/she activated water by mistake and just went ahead and used the skill?)

The group’s needs don’t undermine individual choice. No reason both can’t coexist in a healthy balance. Everybody has something to contribute in a group-though I would say if someone likes healing power, he/she shouldn’t group with players that only care for the fastest speedrun, nor complain about it.

Gonna have to 2 part quote this

Star Ace.5207:

DonQuack.9025:

Star Ace.5207:

I will never belittle anyone for using healing stats in their builds. Not my business how they should play their characters, nor does it gives me any right to guess/rate their GW2 PVE skills.

Never is an absolute. I hope you realise that. I personally will belittle when needed.

Staff ele camping water making it rain but no one needs healing… you can be sure I will belittle. 3 words 10 seconds to comply " Fire or kick"

Surely. I never belittle at all. It’s not needed. You play how you want, let others play how they want. I don’t kick others for doing things differently-the only way it’s justified is when the person signed up for one thing and ended up doing another just to annoy (if you take for granted that “no one should use healing rain” but it was never stated anywhere, then yes you are being a jerk for kicking him/her-what if he/she activated water by mistake and just went ahead and used the skill?)

The group’s needs don’t undermine individual choice. No reason both can’t coexist in a healthy balance. Everybody has something to contribute in a group-though I would say if someone likes healing power, he/she shouldn’t group with players that only care for the fastest speedrun, nor complain about it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

DonQuack.9025:

Star Ace.5207:

I will never belittle anyone for using healing stats in their builds. Not my business how they should play their characters, nor does it gives me any right to guess/rate their GW2 PVE skills.

Never is an absolute. I hope you realise that. I personally will belittle when needed.

Staff ele camping water making it rain but no one needs healing… you can be sure I will belittle. 3 words 10 seconds to comply " Fire or kick"

You’re also not Star Ace, therefore your reactions are completely irrelevant to what S/he would or would not do, nor the likelihood of those reactions.

I also would never belittle someone for running a healing build. Who am I to comment on someone else’s build? I will belittle someone for not running the encounter correctly, and not being able to deal with the mechanics, but not for what their build is.

This doesn’t change the fact that I understand DPS is king, I just don’t care and refuse to regiment myself or anyone else to that fact. I’m not worried about speed, only success.

LoL wut. I will belittle anything if it isnt useful at said time. What I am hearing 2 people say is they are more than willing to carry people through activities no matter the cost as long as they finish.

e.g I belittled a guardian last night for this. Lvl 80 6kap not that means anything. Running a few lowbies through Sorrows embrace story mode.

After watching the lowbies getting slaughtered by projectiles I asked his build and he pinged “smite condition, save yourselves, and judges intervention”

I cant understand how you two would just idly stand by and let said guardian think he is doing ANYTHING useful for the party. Much less himself as he typically died after said lowbies died.

Or rather youre also saying that in a party that is competant/ i.e know when to dodge/invuln/ you would say NOTHING that water camping staff ele.

Again I find the use of the absolute never followed with “at all” and even play how they want to be quite mind boggling.

I mean that means you never recommended someone to use something that would be more beneficial that what they already had in any situation. EVER.

• note I dont care about healing power or any of that nonsense. Im just drawing in on the I never belittle statement and the extended let everyone play how they want statement.

Star Ace.5207:

While it’s true every person’s ultimate healing depends on his/her character, not on any healer’s, there’s nothing inherently wrong in the other approach either (meaning, stacking healing power if the player so wishes to do so-it works, just doesn’t make the character a “healer” per se which is intended). It’s only an annoying problem when the game throws at you time-gated “DPS tests”, which IMHO it shouldn’t, but that’s another discussion. Healing Power only loses its luster in an all-efficiency team (which you are seemingly taking for granted as “the right way to play GW2”), but not all players have such a bias, regardless of skill (I.E. whether a player is “good” or “bad”, he isn’t defined as such just because of the gear he/she wishes to use for his/her characters.)

It is also ludicrous to say that stacking healing power is selfish because it’s not the fastest way to play. :P Always a bad argument, because it assumes that the other player is only thinking about himself/herself, which isn’t at all the case. The only thing that you can say is “true” is that Healing Power is “inefficient when I only care about speed”, but it isn’t selfish (or denotes “bad play”) to stack it, and most people who do have such builds affect others’ survivability without of course doing all the healing for them, as these shouldn’t.

In short, “not needed” but powerful as the supplementary healing tool it’s meant to be. I will never belittle anyone for using healing stats in their builds. Not my business how they should play their characters, nor does it gives me any right to guess/rate their GW2 PVE skills. It does its work well, even if perhaps it will never be “meta.”

All characters bring damage, BTW-even if you had zero Power in your gear, the so-called “wet noodle attacks” do inflict damage. No one ever said that having Healing Power has anything to do with refusing to use attacking/offensive skills. It’s more about the way you play than the gear you use.

(The above is not meant to say that Healing Power is-or should be-“as good as DPS” for speedruns, but more to state it’s not useless at all for others approaches to the game that do not involve world speedclear records. It will never be a “wasted stat” with some playstyles out there, which are pretty valid and sanctioned by traits ANet has officially offered players.)

I know what you are saying, I’m gonna try to explain myself again.

The time you buy with healing power is not worth compared to the other stats you have to open hand of.

If you could have an arena with endless trashmobs spawning constantly a full healing power guardian wouldn’t out survive a zerker one, because while technically the healer is more tanky, the reality is he’s gonna take more damage and die quicker.

I’m not talking about speed clear either, nor am I an elitist (I often spend time teaching dungeon paths to noobs and other than afk you won’t get kicked from my party) it’s just the way the game works, the trade of is just not worth it, maybe if they double the effectiveness of healing power.

As is the game is built so you’d primarily deal damage, secondarily either something else, or even more damage.

DonQuack.9025:

Gonna have to 2 part quote this

Star Ace.5207:

DonQuack.9025:

Star Ace.5207:

I will never belittle anyone for using healing stats in their builds. Not my business how they should play their characters, nor does it gives me any right to guess/rate their GW2 PVE skills.

Never is an absolute. I hope you realise that. I personally will belittle when needed.

Staff ele camping water making it rain but no one needs healing… you can be sure I will belittle. 3 words 10 seconds to comply " Fire or kick"

Surely. I never belittle at all. It’s not needed. You play how you want, let others play how they want. I don’t kick others for doing things differently-the only way it’s justified is when the person signed up for one thing and ended up doing another just to annoy (if you take for granted that “no one should use healing rain” but it was never stated anywhere, then yes you are being a jerk for kicking him/her-what if he/she activated water by mistake and just went ahead and used the skill?)

The group’s needs don’t undermine individual choice. No reason both can’t coexist in a healthy balance. Everybody has something to contribute in a group-though I would say if someone likes healing power, he/she shouldn’t group with players that only care for the fastest speedrun, nor complain about it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

DonQuack.9025:

Star Ace.5207:

I will never belittle anyone for using healing stats in their builds. Not my business how they should play their characters, nor does it gives me any right to guess/rate their GW2 PVE skills.

Never is an absolute. I hope you realise that. I personally will belittle when needed.

Staff ele camping water making it rain but no one needs healing… you can be sure I will belittle. 3 words 10 seconds to comply " Fire or kick"

You’re also not Star Ace, therefore your reactions are completely irrelevant to what S/he would or would not do, nor the likelihood of those reactions.

I also would never belittle someone for running a healing build. Who am I to comment on someone else’s build? I will belittle someone for not running the encounter correctly, and not being able to deal with the mechanics, but not for what their build is.

This doesn’t change the fact that I understand DPS is king, I just don’t care and refuse to regiment myself or anyone else to that fact. I’m not worried about speed, only success.

LoL wut. I will belittle anything if it isnt useful at said time. What I am hearing 2 people say is they are more than willing to carry people through activities no matter the cost as long as they finish.

e.g I belittled a guardian last night for this. Lvl 80 6kap not that means anything. Running a few lowbies through Sorrows embrace story mode.

After watching the lowbies getting slaughtered by projectiles I asked his build and he pinged “smite condition, save yourselves, and judges intervention”

I cant understand how you two would just idly stand by and let said guardian think he is doing ANYTHING useful for the party. Much less himself as he typically died after said lowbies died.

We get it, you’re a terrible person, you don’t care about community and you only care about getting the prize at the end as fast as possible. I don’t think you need to explain, I followed along the first time. Good for you. You are one thing, I am another. We should never interact, and most likely never will. All is good with the world.

But really, no one asked, so why are you relating your life story here?

I will answer your final question though. I don’t see any overall problem with his skill choices. I wouldn’t take smite condition, because that seems not useful, but whatever. I use save yourself on my retaliation build. I don’t know what Judges Intervention is, but if it was Merciful intervention I can see the use in that too. Again, if he’s unable to fill his roll, then that’s a problem, as it obviously was here. I’m not interested in carrying anyone, any more than I expect anyone to carry me. If someone can’t take care of themselves while also getting through the mechanics of the encounter, they’re a problem. If they can, and the encounter is completed then I don’t have a problem with it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

We get it, you’re a terrible person, you don’t care about community and you only care about getting the prize at the end as fast as possible. I don’t think you need to explain, I followed along the first time. Good for you. You are one thing, I am another.

I will answer your final question though. I don’t see any overall problem with his skill choices.

2 parts that make me lol..

1st I dont care about my community? What are you talking about? Complete fastest? Where did I indicate i want anything completed at ANY speed?

2nd Sorrows Embrace Story mode- AKA Projectile blind immune rat people heaven The Lowbies we are running with are being slaughtered. He is a GUARDIAN with access to Wall of Reflection Shield of the Avenger.

Also judges intervention- teleport to target and burn for x seconds.

I am at a loss for words at the most basic of things. Retaliation? The boon that you have to get hit for it to be “effective” unless traited?

Why am I here? Youre here what other reason do I need?

I’m not interested in carrying anyone, any more than I expect anyone to carry me.

to quote myself “Staff ele camping water making it rain but no one needs healing… you can be sure I will belittle” A party that does not need healing but someone is healing. Im sorry wouldnt you call that being carried. The presence there contributes nothing and they still get a reward afterwards but did nothing… well they did something.. press buttons.

DonQuack.9025:

Kal Spiro.9745:

We get it, you’re a terrible person, you don’t care about community and you only care about getting the prize at the end as fast as possible. I don’t think you need to explain, I followed along the first time. Good for you. You are one thing, I am another.

I will answer your final question though. I don’t see any overall problem with his skill choices.

2 parts that make me lol..

1st I dont care about my community? What are you talking about? Complete fastest? Where did I indicate i want anything completed at ANY speed?

2nd Sorrows Embrace Story mode- AKA Projectile blind immune rat people heaven The Lowbies we are running with are being slaughtered. He is a GUARDIAN with access to Wall of Reflection Shield of the Avenger.

Also judges intervention- teleport to target and burn for x seconds.

I am at a loss for words at the most basic of things. Retaliation? The boon that you have to get hit for it to be “effective” unless traited?

Why am I here? Youre here what other reason do I need?

I’m not interested in carrying anyone, any more than I expect anyone to carry me.

to quote myself “Staff ele camping water making it rain but no one needs healing… you can be sure I will belittle” A party that does not need healing but someone is healing. Im sorry wouldnt you call that being carried. The presence there contributes nothing and they still get a reward afterwards but did nothing… well they did something.. press buttons.

K, I only did the story modes once, on a ranger, without a guardian as far as I know. What I recall about it is that we had some difficulty after the water because one guy wanted to do some trick that didn’t work and I had to keep ressing people because I could survive where they couldn’t.

Ultimately I still don’t care. If you are looking for reflection then it should be stated up front. If it wasn’t and he’s running a different build, then that is how it is. As for retaliation, yeah, that wasn’t really relevant, and I doubt that’s why he used that skill, he just wanted the buffs. I feel dumb about Judges Intervention, I couldn’t find it in the list because it was the skill slotted for that guardian in the builder I was looking at. His build is all over the place but I can see the synergy, now, in why he might have chosen those powers, though. If he’s built for meditations he can buff the party, teleport to a mob inflicting a condition and then do the most damage with smite condition. It’s not a build I would use, but whatever.

If his intent, though, was to be a healer, I don’t get it, cause he’s got nothing to support that here. I’m also curious what his weapons were. It seems, that regardless he wasn’t good in general. But it doesn’t bother me that he’s not spamming reflect, even though he could.

As for the rest of it, true or not, that’s how you come across, and I stand by it.

I dont understand how I come across as that. I am a person who is willing to tell a person that they should use a different skill/build/whatever for any encounter for its strengths rather than You play how you want, let others play how they want.

as for the group shouldnt be more important than individual choices “Dungeons are optional party-based PvE instances, each with their own story… an explorable mode, a more difficult mode which requires more co-ordination to play through and is unlocked after completing story mode”

See screenshot- clearly I was an kitten for suggesting that said mesmer should atleast wear some clothing. Silly me.

Water in sorrows embrace? Maybe CoE you mean? Thats gonna bother me now I have to go run it.

DonQuack.9025:

I dont understand how I come across as that. I am a person who is willing to tell a person that they should use a different skill/build/whatever for any encounter for its strengths rather than You play how you want, let others play how they want.

as for the group shouldnt be more important than individual choices “Dungeons are optional party-based PvE instances, each with their own story… an explorable mode, a more difficult mode which requires more co-ordination to play through and is unlocked after completing story mode”

See screenshot- clearly I was an kitten for suggesting that said mesmer should atleast wear some clothing. Silly me.

Water in sorrows embrace? Maybe CoE you mean?

Sorrow’s Embrace is the Dredge, isn’kitten I was thinking of the Kodan one. I don’t actually remember a single thing about that dungeon… even a little bit.

Crap happens

It’s interesting to hear people embrace the status quo so readily. Anet is more in support of people like the OP than everyone thinks. Maybe not exactly like what the OP wants but they recognize that right now the best support options that group play can offer in PVE is high DPS with untraited (minimally traited) support skills. They have said that they are going to make it so that players have more options to benefit a group than just killing things faster (in a multi-meta way, hopefully because isn’t that the goal?). Now, people in this thread have already shrugged off the notion of any changes to the game being made to that end. Keep in mind they said that they were changing the way crit damage worked and followed through on it, much to the chagrin of people who enjoyed the status quo.

So, keep in mind, there may be a highly beneficial alternative to stacking dps stats in the future. Just when that is? No clue. But I can assure you that when that happens, people will adapt to that too. Maybe some other form of play will be over the top, maybe not. There was another thread on balancing more often that plays into this subject, but I’ll leave that there. So, instead of shooting down ideas for alternatives to stacking dps to engage content and be highly successful, I’d advise that you start dreaming up meaningful alternatives so that we aren’t given completely passive gameplay.

nightwulf.1986:

It’s interesting to hear people embrace the status quo so readily. Anet is more in support of people like the OP than everyone thinks. Maybe not exactly like what the OP wants but they recognize that right now the best support options that group play can offer in PVE is high DPS with untraited (minimally traited) support skills. They have said that they are going to make it so that players have more options to benefit a group than just killing things faster (in a multi-meta way, hopefully because isn’t that the goal?). Now, people in this thread have already shrugged off the notion of any changes to the game being made to that end. Keep in mind they said that they were changing the way crit damage worked and followed through on it, much to the chagrin of people who enjoyed the status quo. So, keep in mind, there may be a highly beneficial alternative to stacking dps stats in the future. And when that happens, people will adapt to that too. So, instead of shooting down ideas for alternatives to stacking dps to engage content and be highly successful, I’d advise that you start dreaming up meaningful alternatives so that we aren’t given completely passive gameplay.

people have not been shooting down ideas for alternatives, just the single proposal OP made. Throughout the thread, he has clearly demonstrated he does not understand his own premises and the changes he proposes will inevitably lead to a trinity style game.

nightwulf.1986:

It’s interesting to hear people embrace the status quo so readily. Anet is more in support of people like the OP than everyone thinks. Maybe not exactly like what the OP wants but they recognize that right now the best support options that group play can offer in PVE is high DPS with untraited (minimally traited) support skills. They have said that they are going to make it so that players have more options to benefit a group than just killing things faster (in a multi-meta way, hopefully because isn’t that the goal?). Now, people in this thread have already shrugged off the notion of any changes to the game being made to that end. Keep in mind they said that they were changing the way crit damage worked and followed through on it, much to the chagrin of people who enjoyed the status quo.

So, keep in mind, there may be a highly beneficial alternative to stacking dps stats in the future. Just when that is? No clue. But I can assure you that when that happens, people will adapt to that too. Maybe some other form of play will be over the top, maybe not. There was another thread on balancing more often that plays into this subject, but I’ll leave that there. So, instead of shooting down ideas for alternatives to stacking dps to engage content and be highly successful, I’d advise that you start dreaming up meaningful alternatives so that we aren’t given completely passive gameplay.

Don’t remember in which interview/article they wrote that but if you read carefully this thread you’ll see it is not full of happy people not wanting anything to change.
What most people wrote is that they are against the idea of someone being a healer for a party meaning filling HP bars while the 4 others make only damages. More than that people don’t want a full dedicated healer being mandatory in the group.

For now what peole said here is that the healing system is not broken as suggested in the title but should the dev change it nothing says it will be bad. Feature update changed things that were not necessarily broken without making mass of player leave the game, the same could happen to healing.

Seems people are still shooting in the dark here.

Op doesn’t want a healer, but healing itself to actually be useful beyond your self-healing skill. In terms of support (i.e. helping others), healing support is terrible compared to other support options.
That’s why it’s often tossed aside. Also add to the fact that it requires a lot of invest to even be mediocre.
The scaling can be revised so it can actually be useful support for those that want to invest in it.

DonQuack.9025:

LoL wut. I will belittle anything if it isnt useful at said time. What I am hearing 2 people say is they are more than willing to carry people through activities no matter the cost as long as they finish.

e.g I belittled a guardian last night for this. Lvl 80 6kap not that means anything. Running a few lowbies through Sorrows embrace story mode.

After watching the lowbies getting slaughtered by projectiles I asked his build and he pinged “smite condition, save yourselves, and judges intervention”

I cant understand how you two would just idly stand by and let said guardian think he is doing ANYTHING useful for the party. Much less himself as he typically died after said lowbies died.

Or rather youre also saying that in a party that is competant/ i.e know when to dodge/invuln/ you would say NOTHING that water camping staff ele.

Again I find the use of the absolute never followed with “at all” and even play how they want to be quite mind boggling.

I mean that means you never recommended someone to use something that would be more beneficial that what they already had in any situation. EVER.

• note I dont care about healing power or any of that nonsense. Im just drawing in on the I never belittle statement and the extended let everyone play how they want statement.

Reminds me of a couple of encounters I had with pugs in fractals. One run we picked up a guy for lvl 49 harpies and he was getting hopelessly wiped out, which naturally slows down the whole party. Had a quick look and saw he was only 1.5k AP. Normally, the standard of play is more important than the AP but this poor guy’s skill level coupled with his AP level led me to ask, “How much AR do you have?” Response “What’s that?” Result: quick run down on what AR is and a kick. I don’t normally like kicking people from parties but not know what AR is and going in to lvl 49 fractals is basically suicide.

Another run in fractals this time at 19, hoping for a quickie to get the daily, got joined by a guardian which was very handy since we were doing lava shaman. Wiped twice at the first shield phase. Ended up having to give the guardian a quick tutorial on what skills to take and when to pop them. Quite the irony. Although I have a lvl 80 guard I almost never play him except for armour crafting and I usually main a warr into fractals. But my guild leader always mains a support guardian and he is very, very good at it and we’ve played so much together that I know what most classes need for that level, at least the way I’m familiar doing it.

I really wanted to tell him off for being a nub at it but instead I explained to him what he should be running and the next time attempt at the shaman we got through. Yes, it could have been way smoother and more efficient but we got through in the end with no feelings hurt and no raging and we all had fun. Even got me an ascended chest out of it. The guard learned something new and had his play style challenged. In the end isn’t that what we want in a game?

blakdoxa.7520:

Seems people are still shooting in the dark here.

Op doesn’t want a healer, but healing itself to actually be useful beyond your self-healing skill. In terms of support (i.e. helping others), healing support is terrible compared to other support options.
That’s why it’s often tossed aside. Also add to the fact that it requires a lot of invest to even be mediocre.
The scaling can be revised so it can actually be useful support for those that want to invest in it.

Thank you !!!!

Again like I say two group of ppl on this forum

group 1 (who cares about healing dps is far better)

and group 2 like my self who care’s to be doing other thing then dpsing

As I keep saying this game is design to be more then just dps the tools is allrdy in the game so is not I am asking to make any changes but improvement

The healing ability to help other is weak and can be improve,

1) Regeneration is by far the weakest off all the healing ability in the game b/c is effected by the person own healing stats instead of the caster. They should improve this by either making it stackable like might or make it heal by who ever has the strongest healing stat on the group

2) Healing stats to weak, now maybe the reason for this is b.c maybe anet is trying to avoid player becoming supertank and going around being impossible kill, so maybe they could add like a hidden bonus effect like outgoin heal into healing stats where the healing amount is a bit stronger when you heal other then your self

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where there could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it)

The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Teon.5168:

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it) The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Yes I am extremely sorry English is my second language, I try to use spell check all the time but the grammar is kind of hard even the programs I use on the net don’t do a good job

But I wouldn’t go as far as say that my grammar or spelling is the issue here. The ppl who are debating the issue is b/c to them is insignificant , is not in there play style so it matter not that healing works or not.

As long option A is available there are content with the game itself but there a few of us that would like to be playing option B

Drakent.9605:

Teon.5168:

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it) The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Yes I am extremely sorry English is my second language, I try to use spell check all the time but the grammar is kind of hard even the programs I use on the net don’t do a good job

Wondered that. Thanks for the explanation.

Drakent.9605:

Teon.5168:

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it) The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Yes I am extremely sorry English is my second language, I try to use spell check all the time but the grammar is kind of hard even the programs I use on the net don’t do a good job

But I wouldn’t go as far as say that my grammar or spelling is the issue here. The ppl who are debating the issue is b/c to them is insignificant , is not in there play style so it matter not that healing works or not.

As long option A is available there are content with the game itself but there a few of us that would like to be playing option B

And as demonstrated in the videos I posted it’s very easy to do any dungeon with 5 healer characters and do it without even dodging, while only using auto attacks. Why do you say 4 dps and 1 healer isn’t “doable”, because it certainly is. And it is a lot smoother indeed.

maddoctor.2738:

Drakent.9605:

Teon.5168:

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it) The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Yes I am extremely sorry English is my second language, I try to use spell check all the time but the grammar is kind of hard even the programs I use on the net don’t do a good job

But I wouldn’t go as far as say that my grammar or spelling is the issue here. The ppl who are debating the issue is b/c to them is insignificant , is not in there play style so it matter not that healing works or not.

As long option A is available there are content with the game itself but there a few of us that would like to be playing option B

And as demonstrated in the videos I posted it’s very easy to do any dungeon with 5 healer characters and do it without even dodging, while only using auto attacks. Why do you say 4 dps and 1 healer isn’t “doable”, because it certainly is. And it is a lot smoother indeed.

Yes a video of 5 cleric gear equip not 4 dps and 1 healer. 5 ppl using cleric will make any group barely get a scratch on there HP just with Regeneration tick and auto attack healing effect from weapon and food effect with out the need of using any healing spells

1 healer does not work b/c the healing alone is gimpy, alone you heal about 20% of ppl HP every 10 sec that is to low to keep any person half alive when mobs are able to take down 60% of your HP under 5 sec

Drakent.9605:

maddoctor.2738:

Drakent.9605:

Teon.5168:

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it) The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Yes I am extremely sorry English is my second language, I try to use spell check all the time but the grammar is kind of hard even the programs I use on the net don’t do a good job

But I wouldn’t go as far as say that my grammar or spelling is the issue here. The ppl who are debating the issue is b/c to them is insignificant , is not in there play style so it matter not that healing works or not.

As long option A is available there are content with the game itself but there a few of us that would like to be playing option B

And as demonstrated in the videos I posted it’s very easy to do any dungeon with 5 healer characters and do it without even dodging, while only using auto attacks. Why do you say 4 dps and 1 healer isn’t “doable”, because it certainly is. And it is a lot smoother indeed.

Yes a video of 5 cleric gear equip not 4 dps and 1 healer. 5 ppl using cleric will make any group barely get a scratch on there HP just with Regeneration tick and auto attack healing effect from weapon and food effect with out the need of using any healing spells

1 healer does not work b/c the healing alone is gimpy, alone you heal about 20% of ppl HP every 10 sec that is to low to keep any person half alive when mobs are able to take down 60% of your HP under 5 sec

If 5 players can do a dungeon very very easily with their healing gear (to the point of being afk while doing it) and you want to buff healing? I don’t get it, how much of an easy mode do you want the game to be?

New dungeon meta: LFG Healers only!

maddoctor.2738:

Drakent.9605:

maddoctor.2738:

Drakent.9605:

Teon.5168:

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it) The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Yes I am extremely sorry English is my second language, I try to use spell check all the time but the grammar is kind of hard even the programs I use on the net don’t do a good job

But I wouldn’t go as far as say that my grammar or spelling is the issue here. The ppl who are debating the issue is b/c to them is insignificant , is not in there play style so it matter not that healing works or not.

As long option A is available there are content with the game itself but there a few of us that would like to be playing option B

And as demonstrated in the videos I posted it’s very easy to do any dungeon with 5 healer characters and do it without even dodging, while only using auto attacks. Why do you say 4 dps and 1 healer isn’t “doable”, because it certainly is. And it is a lot smoother indeed.

Yes a video of 5 cleric gear equip not 4 dps and 1 healer. 5 ppl using cleric will make any group barely get a scratch on there HP just with Regeneration tick and auto attack healing effect from weapon and food effect with out the need of using any healing spells

1 healer does not work b/c the healing alone is gimpy, alone you heal about 20% of ppl HP every 10 sec that is to low to keep any person half alive when mobs are able to take down 60% of your HP under 5 sec

If 5 players can do a dungeon very very easily with their healing gear (to the point of being afk while doing it) and you want to buff healing? I don’t get it, how much of an easy mode do you want the game to be?

New dungeon meta: LFG Healers only!

He wants to have 4 people who don’t have to heal themselves at all, and are dedicated to DPS and a 5th who isn’t dedicated to healing, but is still able to keep the whole group up the entire time all by himself.

That seems to be the gist of his argument, which is why everyone has been telling him no.

Drakent.9605:

maddoctor.2738:

Drakent.9605:

Teon.5168:

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it) The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Yes I am extremely sorry English is my second language, I try to use spell check all the time but the grammar is kind of hard even the programs I use on the net don’t do a good job

But I wouldn’t go as far as say that my grammar or spelling is the issue here. The ppl who are debating the issue is b/c to them is insignificant , is not in there play style so it matter not that healing works or not.

As long option A is available there are content with the game itself but there a few of us that would like to be playing option B

And as demonstrated in the videos I posted it’s very easy to do any dungeon with 5 healer characters and do it without even dodging, while only using auto attacks. Why do you say 4 dps and 1 healer isn’t “doable”, because it certainly is. And it is a lot smoother indeed.

Yes a video of 5 cleric gear equip not 4 dps and 1 healer. 5 ppl using cleric will make any group barely get a scratch on there HP just with Regeneration tick and auto attack healing effect from weapon and food effect with out the need of using any healing spells

1 healer does not work b/c the healing alone is gimpy, alone you heal about 20% of ppl HP every 10 sec that is to low to keep any person half alive when mobs are able to take down 60% of your HP under 5 sec

Every player hold their own weight because they all have healing skill, a cleric guardian is to help filling up the gap in between their healing skill CD, put up aegis, protection, blind etc. If a single player is able to out heal all the damage, why do we need aegis, protection, blind, weakness….

These boons / conditions play a more important role in damage reduction and hp management. Healing alone must be weak in order to encourage active defense. IMO a supportive player with skill to utilize these boons and conditions to highly reduce party wide damage is much more smart and skillful than a single minded healer player.

Kal Spiro.9745:

maddoctor.2738:

Drakent.9605:

maddoctor.2738:

Drakent.9605:

Teon.5168:

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it) The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Yes I am extremely sorry English is my second language, I try to use spell check all the time but the grammar is kind of hard even the programs I use on the net don’t do a good job

But I wouldn’t go as far as say that my grammar or spelling is the issue here. The ppl who are debating the issue is b/c to them is insignificant , is not in there play style so it matter not that healing works or not.

As long option A is available there are content with the game itself but there a few of us that would like to be playing option B

And as demonstrated in the videos I posted it’s very easy to do any dungeon with 5 healer characters and do it without even dodging, while only using auto attacks. Why do you say 4 dps and 1 healer isn’t “doable”, because it certainly is. And it is a lot smoother indeed.

Yes a video of 5 cleric gear equip not 4 dps and 1 healer. 5 ppl using cleric will make any group barely get a scratch on there HP just with Regeneration tick and auto attack healing effect from weapon and food effect with out the need of using any healing spells

1 healer does not work b/c the healing alone is gimpy, alone you heal about 20% of ppl HP every 10 sec that is to low to keep any person half alive when mobs are able to take down 60% of your HP under 5 sec

If 5 players can do a dungeon very very easily with their healing gear (to the point of being afk while doing it) and you want to buff healing? I don’t get it, how much of an easy mode do you want the game to be?

New dungeon meta: LFG Healers only!

He wants to have 4 people who don’t have to heal themselves at all, and are dedicated to DPS and a 5th who isn’t dedicated to healing, but is still able to keep the whole group up the entire time all by himself.

That seems to be the gist of his argument, which is why everyone has been telling him no.

What? a part time healer but still able to out heal the party damage? That’s not even possible to happen in trinity…. I can’t imagine if healing is such OP, what will it be the full time healer… keep regen up and hit 1 and solo arah path 4….

Please excuse me, such thinking is extraordinary….

Drakent.9605:

maddoctor.2738:

Drakent.9605:

Teon.5168:

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it) The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Yes I am extremely sorry English is my second language, I try to use spell check all the time but the grammar is kind of hard even the programs I use on the net don’t do a good job

But I wouldn’t go as far as say that my grammar or spelling is the issue here. The ppl who are debating the issue is b/c to them is insignificant , is not in there play style so it matter not that healing works or not.

As long option A is available there are content with the game itself but there a few of us that would like to be playing option B

And as demonstrated in the videos I posted it’s very easy to do any dungeon with 5 healer characters and do it without even dodging, while only using auto attacks. Why do you say 4 dps and 1 healer isn’t “doable”, because it certainly is. And it is a lot smoother indeed.

Yes a video of 5 cleric gear equip not 4 dps and 1 healer. 5 ppl using cleric will make any group barely get a scratch on there HP just with Regeneration tick and auto attack healing effect from weapon and food effect with out the need of using any healing spells

1 healer does not work b/c the healing alone is gimpy, alone you heal about 20% of ppl HP every 10 sec that is to low to keep any person half alive when mobs are able to take down 60% of your HP under 5 sec

Allow me to give you a hint: Zealot (not the useless Cleric) Staff elementalist traited for Aquatic Benevolence and runes of Monk can fill the niche effortlessly. The problem? The ele don’t get much loot due to poor tagging. Risk >> Rewards.

It is extremely difficult to take the OP seriously given some of his arguments in this thread. But when you see how he misunderstands basic math, his claims lose even more validity:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/So-How-much-is-your-Crit-Damage-lowered-by/first#post3807966

Crossaber.8934:

Kal Spiro.9745:

maddoctor.2738:

Drakent.9605:

maddoctor.2738:

Drakent.9605:

Teon.5168:

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it) The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Yes I am extremely sorry English is my second language, I try to use spell check all the time but the grammar is kind of hard even the programs I use on the net don’t do a good job

But I wouldn’t go as far as say that my grammar or spelling is the issue here. The ppl who are debating the issue is b/c to them is insignificant , is not in there play style so it matter not that healing works or not.

As long option A is available there are content with the game itself but there a few of us that would like to be playing option B

And as demonstrated in the videos I posted it’s very easy to do any dungeon with 5 healer characters and do it without even dodging, while only using auto attacks. Why do you say 4 dps and 1 healer isn’t “doable”, because it certainly is. And it is a lot smoother indeed.

Yes a video of 5 cleric gear equip not 4 dps and 1 healer. 5 ppl using cleric will make any group barely get a scratch on there HP just with Regeneration tick and auto attack healing effect from weapon and food effect with out the need of using any healing spells

1 healer does not work b/c the healing alone is gimpy, alone you heal about 20% of ppl HP every 10 sec that is to low to keep any person half alive when mobs are able to take down 60% of your HP under 5 sec

If 5 players can do a dungeon very very easily with their healing gear (to the point of being afk while doing it) and you want to buff healing? I don’t get it, how much of an easy mode do you want the game to be?

New dungeon meta: LFG Healers only!

He wants to have 4 people who don’t have to heal themselves at all, and are dedicated to DPS and a 5th who isn’t dedicated to healing, but is still able to keep the whole group up the entire time all by himself.

That seems to be the gist of his argument, which is why everyone has been telling him no.

What? a part time healer but still able to out heal the party damage? That’s not even possible to happen in trinity…. I can’t imagine if healing is such OP, what will it be the full time healer… keep regen up and hit 1 and solo arah path 4….

Please excuse me, such thinking is extraordinary….

Yea, I have to agree. If I am understanding the OP’s posts correctly, he is going beyond even a standard trinity style mmo. Not sure what his point is, as what he is suggesting would be screwy as heck, and would have absolutely not even the slightest bit of balance to it.

I have to agree with a lot of other posters here. Either the OP is a troll, or he really has no basic understanding of how this, or other mmorpgs work.

Drakent.9605:

1) Regeneration is by far the weakest off all the healing ability in the game b/c is effected by the person own healing stats instead of the caster.

I think you are wrong, the regen I apply heals others based on my healing not theirs… but I could have dreamt.

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where there could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

That is simply false : we run option B every day in my guild and it is actually smoother than running full dps, errors are more easily forgiven.

The reason you think healing is “broken” is because EVERYONE has heals. Not just their 6 skill either, every class has multiple ways of healing. Having a dedicated healer would then make healing broken. You seriously want someone dedicated to healing people who already have heals?

Drakent.9605:

1 healer does not work b/c the healing alone is gimpy, alone you heal about 20% of ppl HP every 10 sec that is to low to keep any person half alive when mobs are able to take down 60% of your HP under 5 sec

That 20% when used at the right time can mean the difference between a wipe and success, right? Them few seconds until a player has enough endurance, their heal comes off of cooldown, a lag spike that hits meaning they miss a dodge.

Not to mention that amount every 10 seconds isn’t bad for a build that is also supposed to be putting out DPS as well (which I assume you are, since you said you weren’t talking about having dedicated healers).

As is, you’re singling out a single part of the entire support concept (healing, CR, boons, fields, reviving, vulnerability and, depending on your perspective on it, weakness and blind [although you could also argue that that is part of control]), and complaining you can’t provide constant support in that one small part of it.

At the end of the day, you’re not supposed to be able to, hence the whole ‘no dedicated healers’ thing, which is more or less what you’re asking for despite you saying you want a healing / dps hybrid, judging from the comment I’m replying to.

DonQuack.9025:

I dont understand how I come across as that. I am a person who is willing to tell a person that they should use a different skill/build/whatever for any encounter for its strengths rather than You play how you want, let others play how they want.

You are telling them to play how you want. What’s so wrong in letting others play how they want? I surely don’t tell you how to play, nor should I tell you how to. If you ask for suggestions, yes I can give some. But I am in no place to dictate the “proper way” to play GW2, because such a thing doesn’t really exist (the meta is not the “right” way to play GW2, but just one of the more efficient/fastest ways to do so.)

Not every player has the same goals you do, and that doesn’t make them automatically “bad”. You should bear that in mind. Not every player that runs “bad gear” does so because he loves “gimping himself/herself” or is being “selfish”-sometimes it’s just what he/she likes and does well with (I kid you not… not every player must follow the meta.)

DPS is only “king” because it determines how fast a party gets through a dungeon or boss, because every dungeon has a set amount of HP (And regen) that needs to be chewed through, regardless of game or system. DPS by definition gets through them faster. Of course, a different approach to encounter design could allow the game to re-emphasize control and support to keep the DPS flowing, by having enemies effectively be able to keep pressure on players if they aren’t controlled, and have players be unable to take on the enemies without Support.

I think the healing power stat needs to be re-examined, and possibly be changed to “Healing/Boon Power”, to allow it to be useful for all types of support players, and scale with actual Healing Power better. As it is, Healing Power would almost be useful for tougher characters that rely on maintaining healing over time, such as Healing Signet warriors and Vampire Signet necros if it weren’t for the terrible return on investment in the ability compared to the strong starting ability. By extending it to include the power of all types of boons, it makes it appealing to everyone who uses boons, whether they apply them to themselves or others.

Then again, part of the Guild Wars 2 manifesto wanted to discourage emphasis on builds entirely, and instead emphasize the abilities of the player and style. Maybe other attributes need their impact and extent reeled back to be in line with Healing Power’s instead?

Drakent.9605:

blakdoxa.7520:

Seems people are still shooting in the dark here.

Op doesn’t want a healer, but healing itself to actually be useful beyond your self-healing skill. In terms of support (i.e. helping others), healing support is terrible compared to other support options.
That’s why it’s often tossed aside. Also add to the fact that it requires a lot of invest to even be mediocre.
The scaling can be revised so it can actually be useful support for those that want to invest in it.

Thank you !!!!

Again like I say two group of ppl on this forum

group 1 (who cares about healing dps is far better)

and group 2 like my self who care’s to be doing other thing then dpsing

As I keep saying this game is design to be more then just dps the tools is allrdy in the game so is not I am asking to make any changes but improvement

The healing ability to help other is weak and can be improve,

1) Regeneration is by far the weakest off all the healing ability in the game b/c is effected by the person own healing stats instead of the caster. They should improve this by either making it stackable like might or make it heal by who ever has the strongest healing stat on the group

2) Healing stats to weak, now maybe the reason for this is b.c maybe anet is trying to avoid player becoming supertank and going around being impossible kill, so maybe they could add like a hidden bonus effect like outgoin heal into healing stats where the healing amount is a bit stronger when you heal other then your self

okay, I still think you are completely wrong on that whole healing others thing :P but I can agree with you on the general stat problem. I already have recently argued in another thread that the extremely wonky scaling is really the source of GW2´s dps/zerker tyranny. Power and Precision scale really good (not sure yet of the new ferocity) AND synergize with each other. Other stats scale very bad. I really don´t want woosh woosh stand in the corner healers, but am no against more stat diversity. The diminishing returns of all stats should be re-evalued and adjusted – but of cause that would cause a massive backlash in the player community. Not sure if anet really would like to put up with this :P