Guild Wars 2

Randulf.7614:

No, not ever.

Why not?

I wonder why players believes that all the released non-sPvP content is automatically PvE content.

I think a better option would be to add distinct WvW achievements. What we have now, is like 99% complete PVE and 1% WvW. And that 1% is usually OS which is a really stupid way to get new players into WvW if that’s what Anet is trying to do by adding it to the achievements.
We have daily and monthly WvW elements, we have pvp living story elements, why not living story WvW elements? Like, with the current content you could get an achieve for killing players or taking bases while supporting your candidate. That way we could get people actually playing WvW instead of having to find gimmicks to get around a ridiculously designed JP.

PVT armor and rush! and kill all JQs, biggest troll ever. Good they are not matched with BG anymore. All they do is camp JP, no wonder they lost. trololololol

Astralporing.1957:

IndigoSundown.5419:

So, who exactly is more disadvantaged here, the player who prefers PvE only, or the one who prefers WvW only?

The first one. No WvW content is taking place in PvE environment.

This is equivalent of placing siege equipment only in Orr temple event chests, and then telling WvW players that started to compain that obviously since siege weapons are obtainable in PvE areas then they are a PvE content. Or having everything in WvW cost in dungeon tokens instead of badges.

So, getting those 20 achievement points is as important to PvE as siege is to WvW? Bad analogy.

LHound.8964:

I wonder why players believes that all the released non-sPvP content is automatically PvE content.

I wonder why people believe that placing a content in a PvP area makes it automatically a PvP content.

Astralporing.1957:

I wonder why people believe that placing a content in a PvP area makes it automatically a PvP content.

Maybe because you’ll probably have to PvP to complete the content?

I haven’t read the whole thread, so I don’t know how far the thread has moved since the orginal topic, but I got pretty lucky over the weekend. I am on Yak’s Bend and I and a bunch of Maguuma and Crystal Desert people ran the puzzle together friendly and peacefully.

I accidently threw a torch ot someone in the dark room because I wsn’t thinking and some kitten set off a couple traps but other than that we spent a lng time together with no trouble at all. Thankfully I found a Yak’s Bend Mesmer in the Arena because I just wasn’t able to get past that part without help.

I do OS in about 10 minutes max, just go in the AM (esp EST) and you won’t have a problem, even on weekends. I’ve run that puzzle with a group of 5 enemies on my b*tt in the AM and no one got harassed.

I haven’t read anything but wow… sounds like a complaint about PvP in a PvP zone. HOW DARE THEY!

marnick.4305:

The Stain.4169:

There is no doubt that this puzzle draws the sadistic sorts who play the game. They seem to get huge pleasure from taking a position of overwhelming advantage then frustrating other players trying to do the puzzle. If this behavior was taken out of the twisted world of online gaming and applied to “real world” activities, we would think something was seriously wrong with the people who do it.

Like for example people who play paintball, knowing full well it hurts when they get hit? Or going into the bump carts at the fair? How about the stuff freshmen have to endure to get into their clubs? Kick-boxing? Kennedy March? There’s a whole range of activities based around the premise that participating can and will hurt you, the other or both.

If you go into the Obsidian Sanctum, you accept that you can and will get ganked by other players. That’s the premise, the catch, the thrill. Obviously there’s a reward to make all that worth it.

So let’s ask it again. Why do you want the World vs Kite if not for the thrill of getting it?

No.

It’s not like paintball at all. Paintball is a competitive event wherein both sides are more or less evenly matched, and have the same opportunity for offense and defense. Same with bumper cars at the fair.

Campers in OS however, assume positions of complete advantage, or in the case I mentioned use subterfuge, to “gank” other players who are completely helpless and vulnerable. Their sole pleasure is not in the challenge of what they are doing, but the satisfaction they get knowing they are frustrating/annoying other people, people who are pretty much powerless to do anything about it. Period. That, IMHO, is pretty warped.

The “hazing” you mention of fraternity/sorority applicants is actually a good analogy. That also is a sadistic form of enjoyment.

I’m not saying the format of OS should be changed. It is what it is, and I would find it boring if it was changed. I am saying that I think the people who spend hours camping the top of the dome “ganking” other players have something wrong with them, that’s all. Really, they are just another form of on-line troll. Think about it before you respond.

The Stain.4169:

marnick.4305:

The Stain.4169:

There is no doubt that this puzzle draws the sadistic sorts who play the game. They seem to get huge pleasure from taking a position of overwhelming advantage then frustrating other players trying to do the puzzle. If this behavior was taken out of the twisted world of online gaming and applied to “real world” activities, we would think something was seriously wrong with the people who do it.

Like for example people who play paintball, knowing full well it hurts when they get hit? Or going into the bump carts at the fair? How about the stuff freshmen have to endure to get into their clubs? Kick-boxing? Kennedy March? There’s a whole range of activities based around the premise that participating can and will hurt you, the other or both.

If you go into the Obsidian Sanctum, you accept that you can and will get ganked by other players. That’s the premise, the catch, the thrill. Obviously there’s a reward to make all that worth it.

So let’s ask it again. Why do you want the World vs Kite if not for the thrill of getting it?

No.

It’s not like paintball at all. Paintball is a competitive event wherein both sides are more or less evenly matched, and have the same opportunity for offense and defense. Same with bumper cars at the fair.

Campers in OS however, assume positions of complete advantage, or in the case I mentioned use subterfuge, to “gank” other players who are completely helpless and vulnerable. Their sole pleasure is not in the challenge of what they are doing, but the satisfaction they get knowing they are frustrating/annoying other people, people who are pretty much powerless to do anything about it. Period. That, IMHO, is pretty warped.

The “hazing” you mention of fraternity/sorority applicants is actually a good analogy. That also is a sadistic form of enjoyment.

no, that is not warped, but taking advantage of your position/situation. What you do and should do in a pvp environment. I cannot see the fun in camping for hours, but you are certainly not the one to decide whether there is something wrong with them, actually, that is a reportable insult now that I think of it. But I guess real world decency isn´t that important when you imagine yourself sitting on some moralistic white horse.

All’s fair in love and war.

I’m not a ganker – I just don’t have the patience – but I think the existence of gankers makes the game more interesting.

I ended up getting the Obsidian Sanctum kite at four in the morning when the puzzle was mostly empty. There were a couple of people from other servers doing the same thing, and we left each other alone.

But the thrill of danger – the fact that either of us could have attacked the other at any time – was part of what made it fun.

The people camping the puzzle are doing exactly what it was designed for. ANet built the place with traps to mess with other players, which are controlled from defensible positions. Ganking the unwary is what you’re supposed to do with those traps – they serve no other purpose.

Algreg.3629:

The Stain.4169:

marnick.4305:

The Stain.4169:

There is no doubt that this puzzle draws the sadistic sorts who play the game. They seem to get huge pleasure from taking a position of overwhelming advantage then frustrating other players trying to do the puzzle. If this behavior was taken out of the twisted world of online gaming and applied to “real world” activities, we would think something was seriously wrong with the people who do it.

Like for example people who play paintball, knowing full well it hurts when they get hit? Or going into the bump carts at the fair? How about the stuff freshmen have to endure to get into their clubs? Kick-boxing? Kennedy March? There’s a whole range of activities based around the premise that participating can and will hurt you, the other or both.

If you go into the Obsidian Sanctum, you accept that you can and will get ganked by other players. That’s the premise, the catch, the thrill. Obviously there’s a reward to make all that worth it.

So let’s ask it again. Why do you want the World vs Kite if not for the thrill of getting it?

No.

It’s not like paintball at all. Paintball is a competitive event wherein both sides are more or less evenly matched, and have the same opportunity for offense and defense. Same with bumper cars at the fair.

Campers in OS however, assume positions of complete advantage, or in the case I mentioned use subterfuge, to “gank” other players who are completely helpless and vulnerable. Their sole pleasure is not in the challenge of what they are doing, but the satisfaction they get knowing they are frustrating/annoying other people, people who are pretty much powerless to do anything about it. Period. That, IMHO, is pretty warped.

The “hazing” you mention of fraternity/sorority applicants is actually a good analogy. That also is a sadistic form of enjoyment.

no, that is not warped, but taking advantage of your position/situation. What you do and should do in a pvp environment. I cannot see the fun in camping for hours, but you are certainly not the one to decide whether there is something wrong with them, actually, that is a reportable insult now that I think of it. But I guess real world decency isn´t that important when you imagine yourself sitting on some moralistic white horse.

Hahahaahah…reportable insult? I guess you can feel insulted if you want, and if you do then by all means “report it”. Since I was not replying to anything you said, nor mentioning you, nor mentioning any specific person whatsoever, I don’t really see it though. I guess I was characterizing a behavior though. Until this point I did not realize it was one that you engaged in. So if that offended you, I apologize.

Moralistic white horse? Meh, maybe. I guess I try to. Do you think the ’net should be free of morality? Many do, but I disagree.

The Stain.4169:

Moralistic white horse? Meh, maybe. I guess I try to. Do you think the ’net should be free of morality? Many do, but I disagree.

Of course not.

Spirited competition is the morality of gaming. Declining to press an advantage isn’t good sportsmanship – it’s patronizing and harms the game.

Accepting defeat as a lesson in tactics and trying again with good grace – that’s good sportsmanship.

The Stain.4169:

Algreg.3629:

The Stain.4169:

marnick.4305:

The Stain.4169:

There is no doubt that this puzzle draws the sadistic sorts who play the game. They seem to get huge pleasure from taking a position of overwhelming advantage then frustrating other players trying to do the puzzle. If this behavior was taken out of the twisted world of online gaming and applied to “real world” activities, we would think something was seriously wrong with the people who do it.

Like for example people who play paintball, knowing full well it hurts when they get hit? Or going into the bump carts at the fair? How about the stuff freshmen have to endure to get into their clubs? Kick-boxing? Kennedy March? There’s a whole range of activities based around the premise that participating can and will hurt you, the other or both.

If you go into the Obsidian Sanctum, you accept that you can and will get ganked by other players. That’s the premise, the catch, the thrill. Obviously there’s a reward to make all that worth it.

So let’s ask it again. Why do you want the World vs Kite if not for the thrill of getting it?

No.

It’s not like paintball at all. Paintball is a competitive event wherein both sides are more or less evenly matched, and have the same opportunity for offense and defense. Same with bumper cars at the fair.

Campers in OS however, assume positions of complete advantage, or in the case I mentioned use subterfuge, to “gank” other players who are completely helpless and vulnerable. Their sole pleasure is not in the challenge of what they are doing, but the satisfaction they get knowing they are frustrating/annoying other people, people who are pretty much powerless to do anything about it. Period. That, IMHO, is pretty warped.

The “hazing” you mention of fraternity/sorority applicants is actually a good analogy. That also is a sadistic form of enjoyment.

no, that is not warped, but taking advantage of your position/situation. What you do and should do in a pvp environment. I cannot see the fun in camping for hours, but you are certainly not the one to decide whether there is something wrong with them, actually, that is a reportable insult now that I think of it. But I guess real world decency isn´t that important when you imagine yourself sitting on some moralistic white horse.

Hahahaahah…reportable insult? I guess you can feel insulted if you want, and if you do then by all means “report it”. Since I was not replying to anything you said, nor mentioning you, nor mentioning any specific person whatsoever, I don’t really see it though. I guess I was characterizing a behavior though. Until this point I did not realize it was one that you engaged in. So if that offended you, I apologize.

Moralistic white horse? Meh, maybe. I guess I try to. Do you think the ’net should be free of morality? Many do, but I disagree.

If you would care to read, you would have noted I am excluded. But I guess that is asking too much of you. And the morality thing, well, figure that out yourself. Cannot say I have seen some dude not making a touch down in a game because the other team would have their feelings hurt. Your equation of altruism with an ethos in general really speaks of a very limited education in the field of philosophy btw.

It’s really the same issue with world completion, MANY PvE people just don’t want to play PvP and being “forced” to, to earn PvE based achievements rubs them the wrong way. Associating jumping puzzles with PvE content isn’t hardly out of the realm of reality either, considering %90 of them are only found in PvE.

munkiman.3068:

It’s really the same issue with world completion, MANY PvE people just don’t want to play PvP and being “forced” to, to earn PvE based achievements rubs them the wrong way. Associating jumping puzzles with PvE content isn’t hardly out of the realm of reality either, considering %90 of them are only found in PvE.

Among today´s Daily: Daily Mists Tower Capturer, Daily Mist Land Claimer, Daily Mist Invasion Defender. In Monthly: WvW Player Kills. Does any PvE player complain about not getting those? Sorry, I cannot help but seeing there is a big chunk of AP to be had for completing a rather bland jp (in itself) and pure PvE players not able to make it because they are unwilling to delve into PvP even on the smallest scale. Which is fine, but that does not entitle them in any way.

Algreg.3629:

munkiman.3068:

It’s really the same issue with world completion, MANY PvE people just don’t want to play PvP and being “forced” to, to earn PvE based achievements rubs them the wrong way. Associating jumping puzzles with PvE content isn’t hardly out of the realm of reality either, considering %90 of them are only found in PvE.

Among today´s Daily: Daily Mists Tower Capturer, Daily Mist Land Claimer, Daily Mist Invasion Defender. In Monthly: WvW Player Kills. Does any PvE player complain about not getting those? Sorry, I cannot help but seeing there is a big chunk of AP to be had for completing a rather bland jp (in itself) and pure PvE players not able to make it because they are unwilling to delve into PvP even on the smallest scale. Which is fine, but that does not entitle them in any way.

Including Dailies for WvW players to achieve is perfectly fine, wanted even. Tying a mostly PvE activity like map completion and the kite achievement is something different. It’s getting old hearing people use entitled as an argument for people that don’t want to do certain activities but are required to if they want to earn those achievements.

munkiman.3068:

Algreg.3629:

munkiman.3068:

It’s really the same issue with world completion, MANY PvE people just don’t want to play PvP and being “forced” to, to earn PvE based achievements rubs them the wrong way. Associating jumping puzzles with PvE content isn’t hardly out of the realm of reality either, considering %90 of them are only found in PvE.

Among today´s Daily: Daily Mists Tower Capturer, Daily Mist Land Claimer, Daily Mist Invasion Defender. In Monthly: WvW Player Kills. Does any PvE player complain about not getting those? Sorry, I cannot help but seeing there is a big chunk of AP to be had for completing a rather bland jp (in itself) and pure PvE players not able to make it because they are unwilling to delve into PvP even on the smallest scale. Which is fine, but that does not entitle them in any way.

Including Dailies for WvW players to achieve is perfectly fine, wanted even. Tying a mostly PvE activity like map completion and the kite achievement is something different. It’s getting old hearing people use entitled as an argument for people that don’t want to do certain activities but are required to if they want to earn those achievements.

if meta-achievements were not achievable without the pvp part, things would be different, but they are not. Whether that argument gets old in your eyes is in no way relevant as long as you cannot bring up a convincing argument why PvE players SHOULD have easy access to everything.

munkiman.3068:

people that don’t want to do certain activities but are required to if they want to earn those achievements.

munkiman.3068:

if they want to earn those achievements.

munkiman.3068:

if they want to earn those achievements.

I want to earn the achievement “Been There. Done That.” but I never want to leave the Eternal Battlegrounds because I only like WvW.

I want to earn the achievement “Realm Defender” but I don’t want to do all those supply runs.

I want to earn the achievement “Master Crafter” but the only craft I want to level is cooking.

What should I do?

This is one of those activities that encourages large and/or organized guilds. 3-4 cooperating players in your guild cannot do it if a few people are determined to stop you and waits at a choke point. I do not think this promotes a fun gaming environment to put something that is overwhelmingly PvE into a PvP context (or vice versa), but I will say it is a strong point for the large guilds.

Algreg.3629:

if meta-achievements were not achievable without the pvp part, things would be different, but they are not. Whether that argument gets old in your eyes is in no way relevant as long as you cannot bring up a convincing argument why PvE players SHOULD have easy access to everything.

Who said anything about easy, i’d say there are more people that can’t finish that puzzle with or without enemies, same with skipping stones or aetherblade… Like i said I do OS in no time, blowing past enemies before they can even get a skill off most of the time. I WvW on occasion as well. But, i can see the point being made that those achievements (pretty sure explorer is about as Meta as it gets) are actually required to at the very least, participate in a PvP environment. So, there is no argument, there are PvE centric achievements that require some aspect of PvP inclusion, there are people complaining about it, doesn’t make them entitled.

dybryd.1358:

munkiman.3068:

people that don’t want to do certain activities but are required to if they want to earn those achievements.

munkiman.3068:

if they want to earn those achievements.

munkiman.3068:

if they want to earn those achievements.

I want to earn the achievement “Been There. Done That.” but I never want to leave the Eternal Battlegrounds because I only like WvW.

I want to earn the achievement “Realm Defender” but I don’t want to do all those supply runs.

I want to earn the achievement “Master Crafter” but the only craft I want to level is cooking.

What should I do?

I don´t know, but adopting a stance of righteous ire and complaining in the forums seems to be good start from what you see.

munkiman.3068:

Algreg.3629:

if meta-achievements were not achievable without the pvp part, things would be different, but they are not. Whether that argument gets old in your eyes is in no way relevant as long as you cannot bring up a convincing argument why PvE players SHOULD have easy access to everything.

Who said anything about easy, i’d say there are more people that can’t finish that puzzle with or without enemies, same with skipping stones or aetherblade… Like i said I do OS in no time, blowing past enemies before they can even get a skill off most of the time. I WvW on occasion as well. But, i can see the point being made that those achievements (pretty sure explorer is about as Meta as it gets) are actually required to at the very least, participate in a PvP environment. So, there is no argument, there are PvE centric achievements that require some aspect of PvP inclusion, there are people complaining about it, doesn’t make them entitled.

you keep to your definition of those being PvE by nature, I keep denying it by them being in a PvP zone, we will not reach a conclusion, guess that´s about it.

[quote=2480476;Algreg.3629:in no way relevant as long as you cannot bring up a convincing argument why PvE players SHOULD have easy access to everything.[/quote]

Straw man.

PvE players are not asking for access to everything any more than WvW players are. PvE players are not asking for WvW achievements, sPVP or tPVP achievements or more ways to earn Glory. A large portion (maybe a majority) of PvE players want a hard split between PvE and PvP.

I would say a many if not a majority of sPvP, tPvP and WvW players want the same thing. When I was running in WvW to get my 500 badges for the Gift of Battle, Commanders talking on the Blackgate Teamspeak made no bones about not wanting people coming into WvW maps to do PvE and creating queues for people who wanted to WvW (however, I cannot help but wonder how many of their avid WvW players came from PvE’ers who would never have tried WvW without the mapping and Gift of Battle requirements).

ANet, I think, is slowly being dragged in this direction. It used to be impossible to do monthlies without WvW, and quite difficult to do dailies if you only WvW’ed. That is changing. Now I did not have to go into WvW to get my badges (I resent all the time I spent running in WvW for badges now). It was the same with Faction in GW1 and early GW1 PvP.

JohnLShannonhouse.1820:

Straw man.

PvE players are not asking for access to everything any more than WvW players are. PvE players are not asking for WvW achievements, sPVP or tPVP achievements or more ways to earn Glory. A large portion (maybe a majority) of PvE players want a hard split between PvE and PvP.

I would say a many if not a majority of sPvP, tPvP and WvW players want the same thing. When I was running in WvW to get my 500 badges for the Gift of Battle, Commanders talking on the Blackgate Teamspeak made no bones about not wanting people coming into WvW maps to do PvE and creating queues for people who wanted to WvW (however, I cannot help but wonder how many of their avid WvW players came from PvE’ers who would never have tried WvW without the mapping and Gift of Battle requirements).

ANet, I think, is slowly being dragged in this direction. It used to be impossible to do monthlies without WvW, and quite difficult to do dailies if you only WvW’ed. That is changing. Now I did not have to go into WvW to get my badges (I resent all the time I spent running in WvW for badges now). It was the same with Faction in GW1 and early GW1 PvP.
[/quote]

if you do not have some new definition of the concept “strawman”, I have to disagree. If you care to explain how I am employing those sophistic strategies, I am eager to listen. And yes, I agree the behaviour you describe isn´t justified.

dybryd.1358:

I want to earn the achievement “Been There. Done That.” but I never want to leave the Eternal Battlegrounds because I only like WvW.

I want to earn the achievement “Realm Defender” but I don’t want to do all those supply runs.

I want to earn the achievement “Master Crafter” but the only craft I want to level is cooking.

What should I do?

You have every right to complain, even if those are pretty far fetched complaints, in which I would say, about 90% of this game just isn’t for you. I’ve done the work for my titles and if i don’t want to do an activity to get those points, i don’t, it’s that simple. Just because you’re tired of hearing it doesn’t make it less valid, nor do i even need to use the wording entitled, since that’s a given. Everyone has opinions…

Yet, when someone plays a game that is %90 PvE oriented, in both scope and actually amount of content only to find out that some of the larger achievements require them participate in a PvP environment, they either don’t do them or come here and complain. If there is enough feedback, then it’ll most likely get changed down the road, or at least that’s the hope. If it wasn’t for complaints and disagreements, game forums would be baron.

stof.9341:

Astralporing.1957:

I wonder why people believe that placing a content in a PvP area makes it automatically a PvP content.

Maybe because you’ll probably have to PvP to complete the content?

When even the PvP players advise not-pvping there, but coming when there are no enemies and using stealth pools or mesmer portals?
I’m also pretty sure that most of the PvE players that got there for the achievement didn’t PvP to get it (even better, for most getting involved in PvP meant failing to reach kite).
So change it to “you’ll probably have to avoid PvP to complete the content”.

Sanctum Sprint is PvP. PvP doesn’t always mean hitting each other up the head with sticks. Going sneaky with stealth pools and the like is PvP. Mesmer portals won’t protect you much on the way from spawn to the portal entrance too. Mesmers providing the service can be killed.

Going there at 4AM is a form of PvP too :o

Going into the map and avoiding the PvP there still counts as PvP

Astralporing.1957:

even the PvP players advise not-pvping there, but coming when there are no enemies and using stealth pools or mesmer portals? […]
So change it to “you’ll probably have to avoid PvP to complete the content”.

Finding ways to avoid combat when you’re outnumbered on the battlefield is PvP gameplay. It’s a big part of what I do every day in WvW.

dybryd.1358:

The Stain.4169:

Moralistic white horse? Meh, maybe. I guess I try to. Do you think the ’net should be free of morality? Many do, but I disagree.

Of course not.

Spirited competition is the morality of gaming. Declining to press an advantage isn’t good sportsmanship – it’s patronizing and harms the game.

Accepting defeat as a lesson in tactics and trying again with good grace – that’s good sportsmanship.

Agree with your first part.

But trying to complete the jumping puzzle while a party/guild is camping on the dome “ganking” is the historical sporting equivalent of an unarmed criminal being thrown to the gladiators. No way to win. That is why I question the motives of those who choose to engage in a “game” wherein they cannot help but win, and their opponent is certain to lose. Keep in mind I am not criticizing the general PVP nature of OS, I am criticizing the very specific ways in which some players choose to take advantage of it.

I guess the “lesson in tactics” would be to get up at zero-dark-thirty and try again when no one is there…LOL…so your point is well taken.

Algreg.3629:

The Stain.4169:

Algreg.3629:

The Stain.4169:

marnick.4305:

The Stain.4169:

There is no doubt that this puzzle draws the sadistic sorts who play the game. They seem to get huge pleasure from taking a position of overwhelming advantage then frustrating other players trying to do the puzzle. If this behavior was taken out of the twisted world of online gaming and applied to “real world” activities, we would think something was seriously wrong with the people who do it.

Like for example people who play paintball, knowing full well it hurts when they get hit? Or going into the bump carts at the fair? How about the stuff freshmen have to endure to get into their clubs? Kick-boxing? Kennedy March? There’s a whole range of activities based around the premise that participating can and will hurt you, the other or both.

If you go into the Obsidian Sanctum, you accept that you can and will get ganked by other players. That’s the premise, the catch, the thrill. Obviously there’s a reward to make all that worth it.

So let’s ask it again. Why do you want the World vs Kite if not for the thrill of getting it?

No.

It’s not like paintball at all. Paintball is a competitive event wherein both sides are more or less evenly matched, and have the same opportunity for offense and defense. Same with bumper cars at the fair.

Campers in OS however, assume positions of complete advantage, or in the case I mentioned use subterfuge, to “gank” other players who are completely helpless and vulnerable. Their sole pleasure is not in the challenge of what they are doing, but the satisfaction they get knowing they are frustrating/annoying other people, people who are pretty much powerless to do anything about it. Period. That, IMHO, is pretty warped.

The “hazing” you mention of fraternity/sorority applicants is actually a good analogy. That also is a sadistic form of enjoyment.

no, that is not warped, but taking advantage of your position/situation. What you do and should do in a pvp environment. I cannot see the fun in camping for hours, but you are certainly not the one to decide whether there is something wrong with them, actually, that is a reportable insult now that I think of it. But I guess real world decency isn´t that important when you imagine yourself sitting on some moralistic white horse.

Hahahaahah…reportable insult? I guess you can feel insulted if you want, and if you do then by all means “report it”. Since I was not replying to anything you said, nor mentioning you, nor mentioning any specific person whatsoever, I don’t really see it though. I guess I was characterizing a behavior though. Until this point I did not realize it was one that you engaged in. So if that offended you, I apologize.

Moralistic white horse? Meh, maybe. I guess I try to. Do you think the ’net should be free of morality? Many do, but I disagree.

If you would care to read, you would have noted I am excluded. But I guess that is asking too much of you. And the morality thing, well, figure that out yourself. Cannot say I have seen some dude not making a touch down in a game because the other team would have their feelings hurt. Your equation of altruism with an ethos in general really speaks of a very limited education in the field of philosophy btw.

Your big words are too much for me to comprehend with my limited education, so I will bow out of your part of the discussion.

Just time your run when your server is dominant or go at odd hours when you know the opposition will mostly be asleep/at work/at school etc. You may still run into some but in lesser numbers, and usually when in lesser numbers they aren’t as evil.

stof.9341:

Sanctum Sprint is PvP. PvP doesn’t always mean hitting each other up the head with sticks. Going sneaky with stealth pools and the like is PvP. Mesmer portals won’t protect you much on the way from spawn to the portal entrance too. Mesmers providing the service can be killed.

Going there at 4AM is a form of PvP too :o

Going into the map and avoiding the PvP there still counts as PvP

Sure, there’s tactics in PvE too, but there’s a big difference, playing against a rather unintelligent AI that doesn’t /point /laugh when it ganks you or pulls you off a high cliff edge has it’s own benefits. Or there’s always the dance on the face routine which is a joy to witness. This is why PvE players are turned off to PvP content, there are too many jerk-faces that want to rub in how awesome they are when their 3 buddies just made you eat dirt, even after you took out 2 of them. It’s almost as annoying and sitting here reading people that complain about complaining.

BTW, i’m just quoting your post, not pointing fingers.

Fox Reeveheart.1890:

A jumping puzzle is man vs environment (with occasional man vs ai enemy)
throwing a Jumping Puzzle and making it a pvp area is one of the stupidest ideas I ever seen implemented. Infact it’s ANTI-fun.

If you’re on a low populated server, the only possible way you can get this done is to go with a massive zerg of people and make sure everyone gets to each spot at the same time.

I think it adds a lot more to the fun of it, as you have strategize your next move more carefully, as your next faulty move, might leave you with damaged gear.

dybryd.1358:

Astralporing.1957:

even the PvP players advise not-pvping there, but coming when there are no enemies and using stealth pools or mesmer portals? […]
So change it to “you’ll probably have to avoid PvP to complete the content”.

Finding ways to avoid combat when you’re outnumbered on the battlefield is PvP gameplay. It’s a big part of what I do every day in WvW.

You don’t go to WvW to avoid combat completely, though, do you?

I’m just saying, that when the best strategy for this supposedly “PvP” achievement is “avoid PvP”, then something is obviously wrong with the base assumption. And that, maybe, perhaps, possibly, this isn’t a PvP content at all.

Astralporing.1957:

marnick.4305:

Like for example people who play paintball, knowing full well it hurts when they get hit? Or going into the bump carts at the fair?

More like doing an RPG larp (say, a Vampire social meet), and then telling participants – “oh, by the way, we’ll be playing in the middle of the paintball range, and the paintball players were informed we are free targets. Have fun”.
Anet specifically and intentionally created a situation where lot of the players were going to the PvP area for reasons that had completely nothing to do with PvP. It should be no surprise to anyone that those people did not get any enjoyment from their one-sided participation in a gankfest.

Not nearly. The more correct analogy would be that there’s a vampire hunter group coming too, to have a double LARP weekend. Anyone hit by that team, armed with paintball guns, is out for an hour. If you don’t want paintballs to hit you, you probably shouldn’t come (or be a very good vampire hunter hunter).

But apparently you don’t want to play by the rules, which means you don’t want the achievement. Stop pretending you do. The vampire hunters are invited on this one.

Astralporing.1957:

LHound.8964:

I wonder why players believes that all the released non-sPvP content is automatically PvE content.

I wonder why people believe that placing a content in a PvP area makes it automatically a PvP content.

I wonder why people believe that placing a content in a PvP area makes it automatically a PvE content. The logic really escapes me. PvP areas make for PvP content. Is that so difficult to understand?

marnick.4305:

I wonder why people believe that placing a content in a PvP area makes it automatically a PvE content. The logic really escapes me. PvP areas make for PvP content. Is that so difficult to understand?

As i have already said, when the best way to get that content is to avoid PvP, and no PvP is actually required, then arguing that it is somehow PvP content just for being in a PvP area is a very flimsy excuse.

The Stain.4169:

marnick.4305:

The Stain.4169:

There is no doubt that this puzzle draws the sadistic sorts who play the game. They seem to get huge pleasure from taking a position of overwhelming advantage then frustrating other players trying to do the puzzle. If this behavior was taken out of the twisted world of online gaming and applied to “real world” activities, we would think something was seriously wrong with the people who do it.

Like for example people who play paintball, knowing full well it hurts when they get hit? Or going into the bump carts at the fair? How about the stuff freshmen have to endure to get into their clubs? Kick-boxing? Kennedy March? There’s a whole range of activities based around the premise that participating can and will hurt you, the other or both.

If you go into the Obsidian Sanctum, you accept that you can and will get ganked by other players. That’s the premise, the catch, the thrill. Obviously there’s a reward to make all that worth it.

So let’s ask it again. Why do you want the World vs Kite if not for the thrill of getting it?

No.

It’s not like paintball at all. Paintball is a competitive event wherein both sides are more or less evenly matched, and have the same opportunity for offense and defense. Same with bumper cars at the fair.

Oh man you obviously never brought your girlfriend to the fair did you? Ganging up in the bumper cars is half the fun.

Campers in OS however, assume positions of complete advantage, or in the case I mentioned use subterfuge, to “gank” other players who are completely helpless and vulnerable. Their sole pleasure is not in the challenge of what they are doing, but the satisfaction they get knowing they are frustrating/annoying other people, people who are pretty much powerless to do anything about it. Period. That, IMHO, is pretty warped.

However you knew that before you went into the OS. Apparently you wanted that to happen, or else you simply wouldn’t have bothered. What are you complaining about? This area is made for ganking, it has literally been designed for these kinds of people. If you don’t want to meet them, don’t go to their parties. Would you go to a heavy metal concert and complain about the lack of Justin Bieber music?

The “hazing” you mention of fraternity/sorority applicants is actually a good analogy. That also is a sadistic form of enjoyment.

And enjoy, I did. I’ve been on both sides. You’re demanding to join a sorority but refuse to endure the trials. Sorry mate, you’re not invited. Rules are not changed on a per capita basis.

I’m not saying the format of OS should be changed. It is what it is, and I would find it boring if it was changed. I am saying that I think the people who spend hours camping the top of the dome “ganking” other players have something wrong with them, that’s all. Really, they are just another form of on-line troll. Think about it before you respond.

I don’t find anything wrong with people ganking in an area designed for ganking. People in there ain’t decent god-fearing law-abiding citizens playing by moral rules.

There’s nothing for me to think about. You’re blaming trolls (and proud of it) for your own failures. You’re calling them wrong simply because they play by the rules in an area designed to grief people. If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. You’ve only got yourself to blame.

marnick.4305:

This area is made for ganking, it has literally been designed for these kinds of people.

That there is a content that caters to the griefers is one of the complains.

marnick.4305:

The “hazing” you mention of fraternity/sorority applicants is actually a good analogy. That also is a sadistic form of enjoyment.

And enjoy, I did. I’ve been on both sides. You’re demanding to join a sorority but refuse to endure the trials.

First, i don’t want to join a sorority – i just want to look at something that is in their building. Second, such “hazing” practices are actually illegal where i live. And the fact that you approve of them tells me a lot about you.