Guild Wars 2

Dear people who complain about the Pre-Purchase being 50$….suck it up. Instead of whining over the price like little kids sit and think for a moment….look what Anet did….just look at this amazing game they made…it’s their 1st Gw2 expansion look how much work they put into the new stuff. Think Guild Halls, new content new playable class…I think HoT is worth more than 50$. I wish people would instead of complaining actually look beyond the cost and realize that if ArenaNet doesn’t earn money from this Expansion there will be no expansion because they wont be able to afford it. Just please stop whining and protesting. Gw2 was voted the best community, lets show that and stop being greedy, yes I understand people who have low income who really want this expansion (like me) but still I love this game and I already love the expansion and if I could I would purchase the 100$ option because it would be a good support for ArenaNet. Please stop the complaining. Ps: I’m not saying you have to throw your money at the screen, but please don’t complain

Thank you. The community should be voted most greedy. All i see are people asking for more stuff and not even content related just gems and char slots lol

Night out with my gf: meal, appetizers, dessert, drinks + tip -Obviously no wine: $30-35
Movie tickets + snacks (actually imagine i’m not a troglodyte and didn’t buy a ton of snacks): $12

That’s $42. Now if she had put out and the dog didn’t poop all over the ducking carpet again it’d been a great night but i guess it’s ok.

Would i do it again ? Yeah why not. Do i feel cheated off my $42? Nah, its a good price for 5 hours of entertainment where i live.

Erm, that’s not why many people are upset.

I expected kitten-$99 price tag. I budgeted for that. What’s kittening me off is that it includes the base game — I have no choice but to buy the base game — there is no other version.

This means that I, being a LOYAL customer, bought the base game, and then pay another $50 for the expansion. John Doe, however, pays $50 and gets both base and expansion. Which means because I am a loyal customer, I pay more.

I would have no problem paying the $99 if, instead of the base game, it was removed in favor of some sort of small kickback. Or, if there was a version of the expansion that was slightly cheaper/discounted if you already owned the base game.

Look at the Sims franchise. You CAN buy a base game+expansion combo, but it’s more expensive than the expansion alone.

Look at hundreds and hundreds of DLC on many, many other games. The DLC/Expansion/extras always (in my experience) have a separate, cheaper version without the base game. OR, provide some sort of special kickback for those already who own it.

This War of Mine gave me, who had bought the beta early access, the soundtrack free but made new players buy it. Or, FTL gave me the expanded edition since I already owned the game, but all new buyers had to buy it separately.

Over and over again, games make sure to make their old player base feels as valued as the new. Right now, that’s not how I feel. Right now i feel like Anet thumbed their nose at the old players (who are the ones who likely funded much of this expansion) and are ignoring us in favor of the new.

It isn’t the price tag. It’s the principle of treating your old player base like dirt. If you’re going to incentivize new players, you should do the same for those who have been with you and supporting you all this time.

Wandering Quill.7689:

Erm, that’s not why many people are upset.

I expected kitten-$99 price tag. I budgeted for that. What’s kittening me off is that it includes the base game — I have no choice but to buy the base game — there is no other version.

This means that I, being a LOYAL customer, bought the base game, and then pay another $50 for the expansion. John Doe, however, pays $50 and gets both base and expansion. Which means because I am a loyal customer, I pay more.

I would have no problem paying the $99 if, instead of the base game, it was removed in favor of some sort of small kickback. Or, if there was a version of the expansion that was slightly cheaper/discounted if you already owned the base game.

Look at the Sims franchise. You CAN buy a base game+expansion combo, but it’s more expensive than the expansion alone.

Look at hundreds and hundreds of DLC on many, many other games. The DLC/Expansion/extras always (in my experience) have a separate, cheaper version without the base game. OR, provide some sort of special kickback for those already who own it.

This War of Mine gave me, who had bought the beta early access, the soundtrack free but made new players buy it. Or, FTL gave me the expanded edition since I already owned the game, but all new buyers had to buy it separately.

Over and over again, games make sure to make their old player base feels as valued as the new. Right now, that’s not how I feel. Right now i feel like Anet thumbed their nose at the old players (who are the ones who likely funded much of this expansion) and are ignoring us in favor of the new.

It isn’t the price tag. It’s the principle of treating your old player base like dirt. If you’re going to incentivize new players, you should do the same for those who have been with you and supporting you all this time.

So then it is the cost? As a veteran of GW2 I understand that a mmo needs an active player base and that active player base needs new players. As a veteran I am glad they are including the base game for the new people as it makes it much easier for them to jump into the game. Look at the bigger picture and dare I say it, stop being so selfish.

Majsan.5870:

Dear people who complain about the Pre-Purchase being 50$….suck it up. Instead of whining over the price like little kids sit and think for a moment….look what Anet did….just look at this amazing game they made…it’s their 1st Gw2 expansion look how much work they put into the new stuff. Think Guild Halls, new content new playable class…I think HoT is worth more than 50$. I wish people would instead of complaining actually look beyond the cost and realize that if ArenaNet doesn’t earn money from this Expansion there will be no expansion because they wont be able to afford it. Just please stop whining and protesting. Gw2 was voted the best community, lets show that and stop being greedy, yes I understand people who have low income who really want this expansion (like me) but still I love this game and I already love the expansion and if I could I would purchase the 100$ option because it would be a good support for ArenaNet. Please stop the complaining. Ps: I’m not saying you have to throw your money at the screen, but please don’t complain

I own 2 copies of GW2 and all GW games/ expacs and I’m not buying this one as offered. I don’t have to get over it I can ignore the xpac and play GW2 or GW as I do now. If they want more from me they’re going to have to give more it that’s simple.

DieselFueled.3257:

Wandering Quill.7689:

Erm, that’s not why many people are upset.

I expected kitten-$99 price tag. I budgeted for that. What’s kittening me off is that it includes the base game — I have no choice but to buy the base game — there is no other version.

This means that I, being a LOYAL customer, bought the base game, and then pay another $50 for the expansion. John Doe, however, pays $50 and gets both base and expansion. Which means because I am a loyal customer, I pay more.

I would have no problem paying the $99 if, instead of the base game, it was removed in favor of some sort of small kickback. Or, if there was a version of the expansion that was slightly cheaper/discounted if you already owned the base game.

Look at the Sims franchise. You CAN buy a base game+expansion combo, but it’s more expensive than the expansion alone.

Look at hundreds and hundreds of DLC on many, many other games. The DLC/Expansion/extras always (in my experience) have a separate, cheaper version without the base game. OR, provide some sort of special kickback for those already who own it.

This War of Mine gave me, who had bought the beta early access, the soundtrack free but made new players buy it. Or, FTL gave me the expanded edition since I already owned the game, but all new buyers had to buy it separately.

Over and over again, games make sure to make their old player base feels as valued as the new. Right now, that’s not how I feel. Right now i feel like Anet thumbed their nose at the old players (who are the ones who likely funded much of this expansion) and are ignoring us in favor of the new.

It isn’t the price tag. It’s the principle of treating your old player base like dirt. If you’re going to incentivize new players, you should do the same for those who have been with you and supporting you all this time.

So then it is the cost? As a veteran of GW2 I understand that a mmo needs an active player base and that active player base needs new players. As a veteran I am glad they are including the base game for the new people as it makes it much easier for them to jump into the game. Look at the bigger picture and dare I say it, stop being so selfish.

I swear its the same story with blind ANet fanboyism.

People are complaining that we are literally buying the base game again! We were lied to by ANet through their FAQ for MONTHS telling us that the base game was required in order to play the expansion, to add insult to injury they advertised past sales of the game under this banner.

We’re complaining to see content that justifies the $50 price tag that ANet deems worthy of this expac, of which we know little and yet they want us to hand over our money. Money isn’t the issue here it’s the practices ANet has been employing to get that money.

How can’t you blatantly see that vets or really anyone that bought the game prior to the FAQ change/date Pre-Purchase rolled out are getting the cheap end of the deal. No matter what way ANet would like to spin it the inclusion of the base game isn’t “free” its merely being added to the cost of the expansion and being marketed as such when really it’s now implied that HoT is the new base game.

Blind optimism never helped anyone or improved on anything please don’t be so ignorant to the situation.

What Kill said, sadly. And we really didn’t need another thread about this either.

To those who are saying they are buying the base game again, what evidence do you actually have for this. If Anet already decided to sell the expansion for $50 and included the base game in the package, you are buying nothing.

Suppose that instead of “including” it in the price of HoT, Anet just said the base game is now free. That’s it. Suppose Anet give a $10 coupon to everyone to bought hot for the base game, and permanently set the price of the base game to $10.

You’re making an assumption that you’re paying extra for something…but you have no evidence for it. Three times already, Anet has sold the base game for $10. For years they’ve been talking about not dividing the playerbase. Why do you you believe this isn’t just another attempt to keep the playerbase together?

The only way you can say you’re paying for the base game again, is if you can prove somehow that Anet is actually charging for it. All you really have is your own belief, because there’s no evidence for it.

Anet is removing the barrier to entry many games suffer. Do you know if you buy the current WoW expansion you get all the previous expansions without paying for them…as long as you pony up $15 a month.

This is a much better deal. But again, what evidence do you have that you’re paying extra for something, rather than it’s just being included for free?

Someone else want to explain how charging for the expansion, that includes the base game, is part of the package to him?

Vayne.8563:

To those who are saying they are buying the base game again, what evidence do you actually have for this. If Anet already decided to sell the expansion for $50 and included the base game in the package, you are buying nothing.

Suppose that instead of “including” it in the price of HoT, Anet just said the base game is now free. That’s it. Suppose Anet give a $10 coupon to everyone to bought hot for the base game, and permanently set the price of the base game to $10.

You’re making an assumption that you’re paying extra for something…but you have no evidence for it. Three times already, Anet has sold the base game for $10. For years they’ve been talking about not dividing the playerbase. Why do you you believe this isn’t just another attempt to keep the playerbase together?

The only way you can say you’re paying for the base game again, is if you can prove somehow that Anet is actually charging for it. All you really have is your own belief, because there’s no evidence for it.

Anet is removing the barrier to entry many games suffer. Do you know if you buy the current WoW expansion you get all the previous expansions without paying for them…as long as you pony up $15 a month.

This is a much better deal. But again, what evidence do you have that you’re paying extra for something, rather than it’s just being included for free?

Because the Vanilla game is not being sold seperately from the HoT purchase, and no dont try to argue that point by pointing me to other sellers, cause without a doubt it will disappear there as well. WoW is how many years old, with how many levels? To answer that. its a 10-year-old game with 100 levels, now tell me how its NOT a smart business move on Blizzard to offer new players the previous expansions outside of Warlords of Draenor. The answer is you can’t, getting new players in a game as old and established as WoW is hard enough, getting them to pay each month even moreso, this decision removes a HUGE paywall that would have intimidated new buyers.

Now here’s the fun part Vanilla WoW wasnt immediately devalued to $0 as a result of this decision, you still need it to get access to the content in the expansions.

On the contrary, GW2 has been out for about 2 1/2 years, its Vanilla game has as of 06/16/2015 been devalued to $0 under the banner that it is a free inclusion to the expansion. This is where ANets error lies, why was the base game suddenly devalued to zero and then bundled “for free” with the expansion, why was the FAQ changed after months of advertising under a different banner that the core game was needed for the expansion (you know the system WoW employs).

Effectively to enjoy GW2 you HAVE to purchase this bundle hence the belief that you are repurchasing the base game.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Someone else want to explain how charging for the expansion, that includes the base game, is part of the package to him?

I’m convinced we’ve reached the point in this “debate” where the “Anet whiteknights” refuse to think as honest and responsible consumers and ignore logical observations.

I mean it’s fairly obvious just at initial glance that the base game is being sold as part of a bundle now, even if marketing says it’s for free. (Btw here’s a hint to determine if it is really being offered for free: Can you download GW2 base right now without purchasing an HoT bundle? No? Hmmm…)

godz raiden.2631:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Someone else want to explain how charging for the expansion, that includes the base game, is part of the package to him?

I’m convinced we’ve reached the point in this “debate” where the “Anet whiteknights” refuse to think as honest and responsible consumers and ignore logical observations.

I mean it’s fairly obvious just at initial glance that the base game is being sold as part of a bundle now, even if marketing says it’s for free. (Btw here’s a hint to determine if it is really being offered for free: Can you download GW2 base right now without purchasing an HoT bundle? No? Hmmm…)

Anet White knight = anyone that does not agree with your perspective.

As a veteran player I’m glad they included the “base game” in the expansion for new players. GW2 is an mmo and the foundation of any mmo is a player base. In short, the game I’m playing needs people to survive and I fully understand and support the method Anet is using or provide that stability to the game world.

godz raiden.2631:

(Btw here’s a hint to determine if it is really being offered for free: Can you download GW2 base right now without purchasing an HoT bundle? No? Hmmm…)

Bullseye.

Vayne.8563:

To those who are saying they are buying the base game again, what evidence do you actually have for this. If Anet already decided to sell the expansion for $50 and included the base game in the package, you are buying nothing.

Suppose that instead of “including” it in the price of HoT, Anet just said the base game is now free. That’s it. Suppose Anet give a $10 coupon to everyone to bought hot for the base game, and permanently set the price of the base game to $10.

You’re making an assumption that you’re paying extra for something…but you have no evidence for it. Three times already, Anet has sold the base game for $10. For years they’ve been talking about not dividing the playerbase. Why do you you believe this isn’t just another attempt to keep the playerbase together?

The only way you can say you’re paying for the base game again, is if you can prove somehow that Anet is actually charging for it. All you really have is your own belief, because there’s no evidence for it.

Anet is removing the barrier to entry many games suffer. Do you know if you buy the current WoW expansion you get all the previous expansions without paying for them…as long as you pony up $15 a month.

This is a much better deal. But again, what evidence do you have that you’re paying extra for something, rather than it’s just being included for free?

Try to keep up, the only bonus for buying the base package is the inclusion of the base game for new players (I couldn’t care less about beta access but some may). As a player who owns the game already I get nothing but the xpac, they get the core game and the xpac. For me it’s a simple matter of fairness, you will disagree which is fine. I own a collector’s edition of GW2 so this isn’t about being cheap it’s about equal value.

Majsan.5870:

Dear people who complain about the Pre-Purchase being 50$….suck it up. Instead of whining over the price like little kids sit and think for a moment….look what Anet did….just look at this amazing game they made…it’s their 1st Gw2 expansion look how much work they put into the new stuff. Think Guild Halls, new content new playable class…I think HoT is worth more than 50$. I wish people would instead of complaining actually look beyond the cost and realize that if ArenaNet doesn’t earn money from this Expansion there will be no expansion because they wont be able to afford it. Just please stop whining and protesting. Gw2 was voted the best community, lets show that and stop being greedy, yes I understand people who have low income who really want this expansion (like me) but still I love this game and I already love the expansion and if I could I would purchase the 100$ option because it would be a good support for ArenaNet. Please stop the complaining. Ps: I’m not saying you have to throw your money at the screen, but please don’t complain

your funny. that is all i have to say to everything you said. i guessed you didnt notice the spit ANET threw at your face with these prices and options, just for an expansion. orrr maybe your into that spit-to-the-face stuff, w.e works for you.

DieselFueled.3257:

Anet White knight = anyone that does not agree with your perspective.

As a veteran player I’m glad they included the “base game” in the expansion for new players. GW2 is an mmo and the foundation of any mmo is a player base. In short, the game I’m playing needs people to survive and I fully understand and support the method Anet is using or provide that stability to the game world.

I agree with you that getting new players into the game is awesome. I haven’t seen a single person that shares my opinion on this matter saying otherwise. We argue from the logical viewpoint of rational and responsible consumers, rather than people are blindly loyal to this game franchise.

Can I upgrade to HoT and get the exact same product that a new customer can at the moment? The answer is no. No matter what you say, the literal, in your face via Anet marketing (and of course NCSoft higher ups) is that I cannot keep my current progress in the game while getting the same product as a new customer. It’s just as simple as that. I’m not asking for a price reduction on the current bundles. I’m just wondering why I’m not being treated as an equal. This is an argument about equality, not entitlement.

godz raiden.2631:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Someone else want to explain how charging for the expansion, that includes the base game, is part of the package to him?

I’m convinced we’ve reached the point in this “debate” where the “Anet whiteknights” refuse to think as honest and responsible consumers and ignore logical observations.

I mean it’s fairly obvious just at initial glance that the base game is being sold as part of a bundle now, even if marketing says it’s for free. (Btw here’s a hint to determine if it is really being offered for free: Can you download GW2 base right now without purchasing an HoT bundle? No? Hmmm…)

I think we’ve reached the point in the argument where people are trotting out terms like white knights because they have zero facts or evidence and so have to try to discredit people personally because they have no facts.

No, you can’t download Guild Wars 2 for free. Because maybe Anet doesn’t want the bad community that comes from completely free to play games. Maybe it’s harder to control gold sellers that way. Maybe there’s a reason why they decided to include it in HoT.

Fact, Guild Wars 2 is a buy to play game. That means you can’t just allow people to download the base game for free because they could play that for a year, two years and spend NO money. They can play the new WvW and new PvP even without buying the expansion so that would be a bad move.

Fact. Many companies have issues with upselling their expansion because new players have to make multiple purchases to catch up which is a barrier to entry. WoW stopped making people buy old expansions to be current, because it’s a good business move.

Fact. There’s zero evidence that Anet wasn’t going to charge $50 with or without giving away the core game. No evidence at all.

Those are the facts. If you want to call me a white knight for pointing out facts, go right head. I, on the other hand, refuse to resort to using labels to undermine your position because I just don’t think that’s right.

godz raiden.2631:

DieselFueled.3257:

Anet White knight = anyone that does not agree with your perspective.

As a veteran player I’m glad they included the “base game” in the expansion for new players. GW2 is an mmo and the foundation of any mmo is a player base. In short, the game I’m playing needs people to survive and I fully understand and support the method Anet is using or provide that stability to the game world.

I agree with you that getting new players into the game is awesome. I haven’t seen a single person that shares my opinion on this matter saying otherwise. We argue from the logical viewpoint of rational and responsible consumers, rather than people are blindly loyal to this game franchise.

Can I upgrade to HoT and get the exact same product that a new customer can at the moment? The answer is no. No matter what you say, the literal, in your face via Anet marketing (and of course NCSoft higher ups) is that I cannot keep my current progress in the game while getting the same product as a new customer. It’s just as simple as that. I’m not asking for a price reduction on the current bundles. I’m just wondering why I’m not being treated as an equal. This is an argument about equality, not entitlement.

Actually the answer is yes. You would just have 2 accounts. I’m not saying this is ideal to you, but the value is still there if you choose to take it. I did not. I already have a second account that farms laurels.

Vayne.8563:

godz raiden.2631:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Someone else want to explain how charging for the expansion, that includes the base game, is part of the package to him?

I’m convinced we’ve reached the point in this “debate” where the “Anet whiteknights” refuse to think as honest and responsible consumers and ignore logical observations.

I mean it’s fairly obvious just at initial glance that the base game is being sold as part of a bundle now, even if marketing says it’s for free. (Btw here’s a hint to determine if it is really being offered for free: Can you download GW2 base right now without purchasing an HoT bundle? No? Hmmm…)

I think we’ve reached the point in the argument where people are trotting out terms like white knights because they have zero facts or evidence and so have to try to discredit people personally because they have no facts.

No, you can’t download Guild Wars 2 for free. Because maybe Anet doesn’t want the bad community that comes from completely free to play games. Maybe it’s harder to control gold sellers that way. Maybe there’s a reason why they decided to include it in HoT.

Fact, Guild Wars 2 is a buy to play game. That means you can’t just allow people to download the base game for free because they could play that for a year, two years and spend NO money. They can play the new WvW and new PvP even without buying the expansion so that would be a bad move.

Fact. Many companies have issues with upselling their expansion because new players have to make multiple purchases to catch up which is a barrier to entry. WoW stopped making people buy old expansions to be current, because it’s a good business move.

Fact. There’s zero evidence that Anet wasn’t going to charge $50 with or without giving away the core game. No evidence at all.

Those are the facts. If you want to call me a white knight for pointing out facts, go right head. I, on the other hand, refuse to resort to using labels to undermine your position because I just don’t think that’s right.

Your facts are in error. The game was on sale post announcement of the expansion and the wiki stated until very recently that it was required to play the expansion, Fact.

That is what a fact looks like.

A logical inference based on that fact is that the game until very recently was not meant to have been included in the expansion.

Arguing these points is fun maybe but it won’t make someone open their wallets, you have zero influence on that, Fact.

Majsan.5870:

Dear people who complain about the Pre-Purchase being 50$….suck it up. Instead of whining over the price like little kids sit and think for a moment….look what Anet did….just look at this amazing game they made…it’s their 1st Gw2 expansion look how much work they put into the new stuff. Think Guild Halls, new content new playable class…I think HoT is worth more than 50$. I wish people would instead of complaining actually look beyond the cost and realize that if ArenaNet doesn’t earn money from this Expansion there will be no expansion because they wont be able to afford it. Just please stop whining and protesting. Gw2 was voted the best community, lets show that and stop being greedy, yes I understand people who have low income who really want this expansion (like me) but still I love this game and I already love the expansion and if I could I would purchase the 100$ option because it would be a good support for ArenaNet. Please stop the complaining. Ps: I’m not saying you have to throw your money at the screen, but please don’t complain

Nothing gets me more than people who complain about people who complain. What’s the point? If you don’t like what they’re saying move on to a different discussion. And these so-called ‘kids’ as you call them have conveyed their thoughts and opinions in a much more eloquent and rational way than your post reveals.

These forums are here for one reason: to allow the players of GW2 to express their thoughts and opinions on the game as a whole. That seems to be working just fine.

DieselFueled.3257:

godz raiden.2631:

DieselFueled.3257:

Anet White knight = anyone that does not agree with your perspective.

As a veteran player I’m glad they included the “base game” in the expansion for new players. GW2 is an mmo and the foundation of any mmo is a player base. In short, the game I’m playing needs people to survive and I fully understand and support the method Anet is using or provide that stability to the game world.

I agree with you that getting new players into the game is awesome. I haven’t seen a single person that shares my opinion on this matter saying otherwise. We argue from the logical viewpoint of rational and responsible consumers, rather than people are blindly loyal to this game franchise.

Can I upgrade to HoT and get the exact same product that a new customer can at the moment? The answer is no. No matter what you say, the literal, in your face via Anet marketing (and of course NCSoft higher ups) is that I cannot keep my current progress in the game while getting the same product as a new customer. It’s just as simple as that. I’m not asking for a price reduction on the current bundles. I’m just wondering why I’m not being treated as an equal. This is an argument about equality, not entitlement.

Actually the answer is yes. You would just have 2 accounts. I’m not saying this is ideal to you, but the value is still there if you choose to take it. I did not. I already have a second account that farms laurels.

The value is there for a new player. But I perceive no value in that bundle. My 2nd account that includes HoT would have absolutely no value to compared to the thousands of hours I played on my primary account.

I believe that’s the opinion a lot of people have right now that are expressing their concerns about the current packages. Honestly, it’s a bad precedent to set having bundles just like these for any future expansions too, because that means to get a good deal you’ll have to leave your primary account behind again and again. Imagine if for a second expansion they do the same thing. In order to continue getting the same value as new customers you’ll just be leaving accounts behind and having to level tons of alts on a new primary account to 80 and gearing them all over again, just to be able to have the same, equal, deal as a new customer. It’s not a very logical pricing scheme down the road now that I think about it. At some point Anet would need to create packages for pre-existing players, so I don’t understand why they don’t just start with the first expansion and set the precedent while they’re ahead.

godz raiden.2631:

DieselFueled.3257:

godz raiden.2631:

DieselFueled.3257:

Anet White knight = anyone that does not agree with your perspective.

As a veteran player I’m glad they included the “base game” in the expansion for new players. GW2 is an mmo and the foundation of any mmo is a player base. In short, the game I’m playing needs people to survive and I fully understand and support the method Anet is using or provide that stability to the game world.

I agree with you that getting new players into the game is awesome. I haven’t seen a single person that shares my opinion on this matter saying otherwise. We argue from the logical viewpoint of rational and responsible consumers, rather than people are blindly loyal to this game franchise.

Can I upgrade to HoT and get the exact same product that a new customer can at the moment? The answer is no. No matter what you say, the literal, in your face via Anet marketing (and of course NCSoft higher ups) is that I cannot keep my current progress in the game while getting the same product as a new customer. It’s just as simple as that. I’m not asking for a price reduction on the current bundles. I’m just wondering why I’m not being treated as an equal. This is an argument about equality, not entitlement.

Actually the answer is yes. You would just have 2 accounts. I’m not saying this is ideal to you, but the value is still there if you choose to take it. I did not. I already have a second account that farms laurels.

The value is there for a new player. But I perceive no value in that bundle. My 2nd account that includes HoT would have absolutely no value to compared to the thousands of hours I played on my primary account.

I believe that’s the opinion a lot of people have right now that are expressing their concerns about the current packages. Honestly, it’s a bad precedent to set having bundles just like these for any future expansions too, because that means to get a good deal you’ll have to leave your primary account behind again and again. Imagine if for a second expansion they do the same thing. In order to continue getting the same value as new customers you’ll just be leaving accounts behind and having to level tons of alts on a new primary account to 80 and gearing them all over again, just to be able to have the same, equal, deal as a new customer. It’s not a very logical pricing scheme down the road now that I think about it. At some point Anet would need to create packages for pre-existing players, so I don’t understand why they don’t just start with the first expansion and set the precedent while they’re ahead.

The precedent being set is every 3 years you pay 50-ish bucks to play gw2. I see no problem with that.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

godz raiden.2631:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Someone else want to explain how charging for the expansion, that includes the base game, is part of the package to him?

I’m convinced we’ve reached the point in this “debate” where the “Anet whiteknights” refuse to think as honest and responsible consumers and ignore logical observations.

I mean it’s fairly obvious just at initial glance that the base game is being sold as part of a bundle now, even if marketing says it’s for free. (Btw here’s a hint to determine if it is really being offered for free: Can you download GW2 base right now without purchasing an HoT bundle? No? Hmmm…)

I think we’ve reached the point in the argument where people are trotting out terms like white knights because they have zero facts or evidence and so have to try to discredit people personally because they have no facts.

No, you can’t download Guild Wars 2 for free. Because maybe Anet doesn’t want the bad community that comes from completely free to play games. Maybe it’s harder to control gold sellers that way. Maybe there’s a reason why they decided to include it in HoT.

Fact, Guild Wars 2 is a buy to play game. That means you can’t just allow people to download the base game for free because they could play that for a year, two years and spend NO money. They can play the new WvW and new PvP even without buying the expansion so that would be a bad move.

Fact. Many companies have issues with upselling their expansion because new players have to make multiple purchases to catch up which is a barrier to entry. WoW stopped making people buy old expansions to be current, because it’s a good business move.

Fact. There’s zero evidence that Anet wasn’t going to charge $50 with or without giving away the core game. No evidence at all.

Those are the facts. If you want to call me a white knight for pointing out facts, go right head. I, on the other hand, refuse to resort to using labels to undermine your position because I just don’t think that’s right.

Your facts are in error. The game was on sale post announcement of the expansion and the wiki stated until very recently that it was required to play the expansion, Fact.

That is what a fact looks like.

A logical inference based on that fact is that the game until very recently was not meant to have been included in the expansion.

Arguing these points is fun maybe but it won’t make someone open their wallets, you have zero influence on that, Fact.

I’m sorry can you quote specifically which if my facts were in error. Because saying there’s an error isn’t the same thing as pointing it out. Specifically quote the error thanks.

DieselFueled.3257:

The precedent being set is every 3 years you pay 50-ish bucks to play gw2. I see no problem with that.

It’s more along the lines of, every 3 years abandon your primary account if you want to get the same value out of the package as a new customer. Once again, I’m glad customers get the opportunity to take advantage of these types of bundles. The lower the barrier for entry to them, the better. However, I cannot, currently, purchase a product of equal value to them at this time. I have already purchased vanilla in the past, I have no use for it now, so there is no logical reason for me, and a surprisingly large number of other customers, to purchase a current bundle.

The easiest solution to this would honestly be for Anet to just separate the bundle into two codes, one for vanilla, one for HoT, as this makes no difference for new players, and gives the exact same product value of the bundle into the hands of old players. There are simple solutions to this “problem” that would appease those who are hesitant to purchase the expansion at the moment. The marketing team just needs to design logical bundles of new players and old players, and then the criticism for all of this will die down significantly. Of course it’s important to realize that even if they Anet does change something with their current bundles, it will take some time for them to do so. Change doesn’t happen overnight, if it happens at all. That being said, for those that share my opinion on the matter, we need to be patient, but at the same time not be afraid to continue voicing our opinion. Likewise, those who think the bundles are fair are free to do so as well.

We can have both “White Knights” and “Entitled Crybabies” (like me!) on this forum debating. It’s what a forum is for after all: exchanging ideas and views on relevant issues.

godz raiden.2631:

DieselFueled.3257:

The precedent being set is every 3 years you pay 50-ish bucks to play gw2. I see no problem with that.

It’s more along the lines of, every 3 years abandon your primary account if you want to get the same value out of the package as a new customer. Once again, I’m glad customers get the opportunity to take advantage of these types of bundles. The lower the barrier for entry to them, the better. However, I cannot, currently, purchase a product of equal value to them at this time. I have already purchased vanilla in the past, I have no use for it now, so there is no logical reason for me, and a surprisingly large number of other customers, to purchase a current bundle.

The easiest solution to this would honestly be for Anet to just separate the bundle into two codes, one for vanilla, one for HoT, as this makes no difference for new players, and gives the exact same product value of the bundle into the hands of old players. There are simple solutions to this “problem” that would appease those who are hesitant to purchase the expansion at the moment. The marketing team just needs to design logical bundles of new players and old players, and then the criticism for all of this will die down significantly. Of course it’s important to realize that even if they Anet does change something with their current bundles, it will take some time for them to do so. Change doesn’t happen overnight, if it happens at all. That being said, for those that share my opinion on the matter, we need to be patient, but at the same time not be afraid to continue voicing our opinion. Likewise, those who think the bundles are fair are free to do so as well.

We can have both “White Knights” and “Entitled Crybabies” (like me!) on this forum debating. It’s what a forum is for after all: exchanging ideas and views on relevant issues.

So how do you answer the fact that WoW is doing this very thing now? That it makes sense for a company to do. That by not doing it they’re hurting their own game, they’re hurting their bottom line and yes, they’d be hurting their veteran players?

Vayne.8563:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

godz raiden.2631:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Someone else want to explain how charging for the expansion, that includes the base game, is part of the package to him?

I’m convinced we’ve reached the point in this “debate” where the “Anet whiteknights” refuse to think as honest and responsible consumers and ignore logical observations.

I mean it’s fairly obvious just at initial glance that the base game is being sold as part of a bundle now, even if marketing says it’s for free. (Btw here’s a hint to determine if it is really being offered for free: Can you download GW2 base right now without purchasing an HoT bundle? No? Hmmm…)

I think we’ve reached the point in the argument where people are trotting out terms like white knights because they have zero facts or evidence and so have to try to discredit people personally because they have no facts.

No, you can’t download Guild Wars 2 for free. Because maybe Anet doesn’t want the bad community that comes from completely free to play games. Maybe it’s harder to control gold sellers that way. Maybe there’s a reason why they decided to include it in HoT.

Fact, Guild Wars 2 is a buy to play game. That means you can’t just allow people to download the base game for free because they could play that for a year, two years and spend NO money. They can play the new WvW and new PvP even without buying the expansion so that would be a bad move.

Fact. Many companies have issues with upselling their expansion because new players have to make multiple purchases to catch up which is a barrier to entry. WoW stopped making people buy old expansions to be current, because it’s a good business move.

Fact. There’s zero evidence that Anet wasn’t going to charge $50 with or without giving away the core game. No evidence at all.

Those are the facts. If you want to call me a white knight for pointing out facts, go right head. I, on the other hand, refuse to resort to using labels to undermine your position because I just don’t think that’s right.

Your facts are in error. The game was on sale post announcement of the expansion and the wiki stated until very recently that it was required to play the expansion, Fact.

That is what a fact looks like.

A logical inference based on that fact is that the game until very recently was not meant to have been included in the expansion.

Arguing these points is fun maybe but it won’t make someone open their wallets, you have zero influence on that, Fact.

I’m sorry can you quote specifically which if my facts were in error. Because saying there’s an error isn’t the same thing as pointing it out. Specifically quote the error thanks.

I highlighted the error.

Vayne.8563:

godz raiden.2631:

DieselFueled.3257:

The precedent being set is every 3 years you pay 50-ish bucks to play gw2. I see no problem with that.

It’s more along the lines of, every 3 years abandon your primary account if you want to get the same value out of the package as a new customer. Once again, I’m glad customers get the opportunity to take advantage of these types of bundles. The lower the barrier for entry to them, the better. However, I cannot, currently, purchase a product of equal value to them at this time. I have already purchased vanilla in the past, I have no use for it now, so there is no logical reason for me, and a surprisingly large number of other customers, to purchase a current bundle.

The easiest solution to this would honestly be for Anet to just separate the bundle into two codes, one for vanilla, one for HoT, as this makes no difference for new players, and gives the exact same product value of the bundle into the hands of old players. There are simple solutions to this “problem” that would appease those who are hesitant to purchase the expansion at the moment. The marketing team just needs to design logical bundles of new players and old players, and then the criticism for all of this will die down significantly. Of course it’s important to realize that even if they Anet does change something with their current bundles, it will take some time for them to do so. Change doesn’t happen overnight, if it happens at all. That being said, for those that share my opinion on the matter, we need to be patient, but at the same time not be afraid to continue voicing our opinion. Likewise, those who think the bundles are fair are free to do so as well.

We can have both “White Knights” and “Entitled Crybabies” (like me!) on this forum debating. It’s what a forum is for after all: exchanging ideas and views on relevant issues.

So how do you answer the fact that WoW is doing this very thing now? That it makes sense for a company to do. That by not doing it they’re hurting their own game, they’re hurting their bottom line and yes, they’d be hurting their veteran players?

Wait, when did this become about WoW? I’m not one of those gamers that has played every MMO on the market. I don’t care about WoW at all. I care about Guild Wars 2. Are WoW players being forced to purchase bundles similar to this right now? If that’s the case then the gaming industry, particularly MMO publishers, are taking advantage of the fact that a lot of gamers aren’t very rational consumers I suppose. Still, I’m not talking about WoW here. If you want to do that, respond to one of the various people who bring it up, because I’m not an expert in their pricing models so I can’t adequately respond to you on that matter unfortunately.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

godz raiden.2631:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Someone else want to explain how charging for the expansion, that includes the base game, is part of the package to him?

I’m convinced we’ve reached the point in this “debate” where the “Anet whiteknights” refuse to think as honest and responsible consumers and ignore logical observations.

I mean it’s fairly obvious just at initial glance that the base game is being sold as part of a bundle now, even if marketing says it’s for free. (Btw here’s a hint to determine if it is really being offered for free: Can you download GW2 base right now without purchasing an HoT bundle? No? Hmmm…)

I think we’ve reached the point in the argument where people are trotting out terms like white knights because they have zero facts or evidence and so have to try to discredit people personally because they have no facts.

No, you can’t download Guild Wars 2 for free. Because maybe Anet doesn’t want the bad community that comes from completely free to play games. Maybe it’s harder to control gold sellers that way. Maybe there’s a reason why they decided to include it in HoT.

Fact, Guild Wars 2 is a buy to play game. That means you can’t just allow people to download the base game for free because they could play that for a year, two years and spend NO money. They can play the new WvW and new PvP even without buying the expansion so that would be a bad move.

Fact. Many companies have issues with upselling their expansion because new players have to make multiple purchases to catch up which is a barrier to entry. WoW stopped making people buy old expansions to be current, because it’s a good business move.

Fact. There’s zero evidence that Anet wasn’t going to charge $50 with or without giving away the core game. No evidence at all.

Those are the facts. If you want to call me a white knight for pointing out facts, go right head. I, on the other hand, refuse to resort to using labels to undermine your position because I just don’t think that’s right.

Your facts are in error. The game was on sale post announcement of the expansion and the wiki stated until very recently that it was required to play the expansion, Fact.

That is what a fact looks like.

A logical inference based on that fact is that the game until very recently was not meant to have been included in the expansion.

Arguing these points is fun maybe but it won’t make someone open their wallets, you have zero influence on that, Fact.

I’m sorry can you quote specifically which if my facts were in error. Because saying there’s an error isn’t the same thing as pointing it out. Specifically quote the error thanks.

I highlighted the error.

You highlighted something that was in no way in error. My comment translates to there’s no evidence that $50 wasn’t always going to be the price of the game with or without the expansion. No evidence at all.

So if Anet already decided the price of the base game was $50 and AFTER THAT decided they didn’t want to sell the base game separately, then you’re not paying extra for it.

Lol I’ll let it slide Vayne, this one time. You will never accept my premise and honestly who really cares right We both play guild wars and I won’t see any of you in HoT because new players get more for their money than I do. I won’t budge so it doesn’t matter.

On a side note, Marvel Heroes released their Cow Level as random drops. Hilarious fun! If you guys need a break arguing semantics, you should give it a try.

Moo, moo, moo . . . quack.

Man, seriously, try it!

Ardenwolfe.8590:

On a side note, Marvel Heroes released their Cow Level as random drops. Hilarious fun! If you guys need a break arguing semantics, you should give it a try.

Moo, moo, moo . . . quack.

Man, seriously, try it!

I was just playing Blackwidow !

I just about died when one of those cows quacked. I swear, I thought I heard an, “Oink!” too. And the loot! YEESSS!

Vayne.8563:

godz raiden.2631:

DieselFueled.3257:

The precedent being set is every 3 years you pay 50-ish bucks to play gw2. I see no problem with that.

It’s more along the lines of, every 3 years abandon your primary account if you want to get the same value out of the package as a new customer. Once again, I’m glad customers get the opportunity to take advantage of these types of bundles. The lower the barrier for entry to them, the better. However, I cannot, currently, purchase a product of equal value to them at this time. I have already purchased vanilla in the past, I have no use for it now, so there is no logical reason for me, and a surprisingly large number of other customers, to purchase a current bundle.

The easiest solution to this would honestly be for Anet to just separate the bundle into two codes, one for vanilla, one for HoT, as this makes no difference for new players, and gives the exact same product value of the bundle into the hands of old players. There are simple solutions to this “problem” that would appease those who are hesitant to purchase the expansion at the moment. The marketing team just needs to design logical bundles of new players and old players, and then the criticism for all of this will die down significantly. Of course it’s important to realize that even if they Anet does change something with their current bundles, it will take some time for them to do so. Change doesn’t happen overnight, if it happens at all. That being said, for those that share my opinion on the matter, we need to be patient, but at the same time not be afraid to continue voicing our opinion. Likewise, those who think the bundles are fair are free to do so as well.

We can have both “White Knights” and “Entitled Crybabies” (like me!) on this forum debating. It’s what a forum is for after all: exchanging ideas and views on relevant issues.

So how do you answer the fact that WoW is doing this very thing now? That it makes sense for a company to do. That by not doing it they’re hurting their own game, they’re hurting their bottom line and yes, they’d be hurting their veteran players?

Wow bundles all expansions except the most current one together. In order to play their most recent expansion WoD you have to buy the base game, which includes vanilla up to mop. So $19.99 + $49.99 for a brand new player. Buying warlords of draenor without the base game doesn’t do anything for you. Of course a new player could just buy the base game, but they would only be able to access content up to level 90 where the new level cap is 100.
WoD by itself doesn’t include any precious expansions or vanilla.

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

godz raiden.2631:

DieselFueled.3257:

The precedent being set is every 3 years you pay 50-ish bucks to play gw2. I see no problem with that.

It’s more along the lines of, every 3 years abandon your primary account if you want to get the same value out of the package as a new customer. Once again, I’m glad customers get the opportunity to take advantage of these types of bundles. The lower the barrier for entry to them, the better. However, I cannot, currently, purchase a product of equal value to them at this time. I have already purchased vanilla in the past, I have no use for it now, so there is no logical reason for me, and a surprisingly large number of other customers, to purchase a current bundle.

The easiest solution to this would honestly be for Anet to just separate the bundle into two codes, one for vanilla, one for HoT, as this makes no difference for new players, and gives the exact same product value of the bundle into the hands of old players. There are simple solutions to this “problem” that would appease those who are hesitant to purchase the expansion at the moment. The marketing team just needs to design logical bundles of new players and old players, and then the criticism for all of this will die down significantly. Of course it’s important to realize that even if they Anet does change something with their current bundles, it will take some time for them to do so. Change doesn’t happen overnight, if it happens at all. That being said, for those that share my opinion on the matter, we need to be patient, but at the same time not be afraid to continue voicing our opinion. Likewise, those who think the bundles are fair are free to do so as well.

We can have both “White Knights” and “Entitled Crybabies” (like me!) on this forum debating. It’s what a forum is for after all: exchanging ideas and views on relevant issues.

So how do you answer the fact that WoW is doing this very thing now? That it makes sense for a company to do. That by not doing it they’re hurting their own game, they’re hurting their bottom line and yes, they’d be hurting their veteran players?

Wow bundles all expansions except the most current one together. In order to play their most recent expansion WoD you have to buy the base game, which includes vanilla up to mop. So $19.99 + $49.99 for a brand new player. Buying warlords of draenor without the base game doesn’t do anything for you. Of course a new player could just buy the base game, but they would only be able to access content up to level 90 where the new level cap is 100.
WoD by itself doesn’t include any precious expansions or vanilla.

I’m not sure that’s true, but even if it is, a person who was there all along, who bought each expansion at the time didn’t get that deal. New players got a better deal. Because it becomes harder and harder as time goes on to attract new players.

I’ve bought this game since the day it released and have never been on a break/long lay-off from it. Its been the only MMO i have played since release and liked every second i have spent on it. When they released the pre-purchase of HoT (which i saw from office), i decided the moment i got home, i would buy the ultimate pack and i did. I didn’t have to think twice about the price considering i have played other MMOs which were good but were mostly a “PAY 2 WIN” model.
For the people who are saying its robbery for veterans and they are not thinking about us old players, how many of you have blew up real cash for in-game items over the past 3 years? I know some of you are willing to buy the expac but are holding out till you get more details. Fair enough. But, what made you buy GW2 when it first released? All they showed was a trailer and some class details on the web page. Yet when the game released, they drew in a huge crowd. Its the same thing whats happening with HoT only now they have given more details compared to when the original game was released.

Its a no-brainer, ANET needs money (including our money) to run the company, their servers, hire staff etc. which is why i didn’t think twice about buying Ultimate. I don’t spend real cash in-game thanks to the gold-gem conversion. So i thought, they need the money and i played my part in supporting the game.

If ANET was really greedy, they would have;
1. Changed their MMO model to a “Pay 2 Win”.
2. Remove the gold to gems conversion system in-game and tell people to use real money instead to buy stuff from the gemstore.
3. Put in a monthly subscription.

Looking at other MMOs, there is a lot of player base that would accept such kind of changes/game model listed above and ANET would have made a heap of cash. Instead they chose not to go that route and I just hope they never will.
Considering the limited income coming from this game, its shocking that they actually managed to release an expansion ( yes it did take 3 years )

People who are complaining, you guys should stop, take it easy on the staff and think from their point of view. They have to keep existing players happy, bring in new players and run their company. Its never an easy job. Some decisions they make will be a boon, some will be a bane. Maybe for some reasons they just couldn’t release the expac alone. What they want more is to increase player base which is why they included the game along.
Past 3 years veterans have only been complaining/demanding left and right which is normal in any game and that doesn’t help them. Yes, some may be sensible complaints which they try to help/patch up and some are out right nonsense which i have read. You guys wanted an extra slot for standard? Why couldn’t you just buy it off the gem store when it was on sale after the Revanent release details? You didn’t want to back then, now you will have to wait till its on sale again if ANET doesn’t decide to add it to the standard version.

I’m not here to defend ANET, but i want to thank them for keeping me hooked on this game for 3 years and i hope they continue to do so regardless of the ups and downs come what may.

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

godz raiden.2631:

DieselFueled.3257:

The precedent being set is every 3 years you pay 50-ish bucks to play gw2. I see no problem with that.

It’s more along the lines of, every 3 years abandon your primary account if you want to get the same value out of the package as a new customer. Once again, I’m glad customers get the opportunity to take advantage of these types of bundles. The lower the barrier for entry to them, the better. However, I cannot, currently, purchase a product of equal value to them at this time. I have already purchased vanilla in the past, I have no use for it now, so there is no logical reason for me, and a surprisingly large number of other customers, to purchase a current bundle.

The easiest solution to this would honestly be for Anet to just separate the bundle into two codes, one for vanilla, one for HoT, as this makes no difference for new players, and gives the exact same product value of the bundle into the hands of old players. There are simple solutions to this “problem” that would appease those who are hesitant to purchase the expansion at the moment. The marketing team just needs to design logical bundles of new players and old players, and then the criticism for all of this will die down significantly. Of course it’s important to realize that even if they Anet does change something with their current bundles, it will take some time for them to do so. Change doesn’t happen overnight, if it happens at all. That being said, for those that share my opinion on the matter, we need to be patient, but at the same time not be afraid to continue voicing our opinion. Likewise, those who think the bundles are fair are free to do so as well.

We can have both “White Knights” and “Entitled Crybabies” (like me!) on this forum debating. It’s what a forum is for after all: exchanging ideas and views on relevant issues.

So how do you answer the fact that WoW is doing this very thing now? That it makes sense for a company to do. That by not doing it they’re hurting their own game, they’re hurting their bottom line and yes, they’d be hurting their veteran players?

Wow bundles all expansions except the most current one together. In order to play their most recent expansion WoD you have to buy the base game, which includes vanilla up to mop. So $19.99 + $49.99 for a brand new player. Buying warlords of draenor without the base game doesn’t do anything for you. Of course a new player could just buy the base game, but they would only be able to access content up to level 90 where the new level cap is 100.
WoD by itself doesn’t include any precious expansions or vanilla.

I’m not sure that’s true, but even if it is, a person who was there all along, who bought each expansion at the time didn’t get that deal. New players got a better deal. Because it becomes harder and harder as time goes on to attract new players.

Yeah but the old players in that WoW scenario also aren’t being given bundle options that only sell the new expansion with all previous expansions + vanilla right? They can just purchase the newest expansion released without also including the price of previous releases in the cost, correct? I’m honestly not sure, as I stated earlier I don’t anything about WoW’s business model at the moment. But if my assumptions are correct it’s not the same as what Anet’s marketing is doing right now and is actually healthier for both old and new players alike for them.

godz raiden.2631:

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

godz raiden.2631:

DieselFueled.3257:

The precedent being set is every 3 years you pay 50-ish bucks to play gw2. I see no problem with that.

It’s more along the lines of, every 3 years abandon your primary account if you want to get the same value out of the package as a new customer. Once again, I’m glad customers get the opportunity to take advantage of these types of bundles. The lower the barrier for entry to them, the better. However, I cannot, currently, purchase a product of equal value to them at this time. I have already purchased vanilla in the past, I have no use for it now, so there is no logical reason for me, and a surprisingly large number of other customers, to purchase a current bundle.

The easiest solution to this would honestly be for Anet to just separate the bundle into two codes, one for vanilla, one for HoT, as this makes no difference for new players, and gives the exact same product value of the bundle into the hands of old players. There are simple solutions to this “problem” that would appease those who are hesitant to purchase the expansion at the moment. The marketing team just needs to design logical bundles of new players and old players, and then the criticism for all of this will die down significantly. Of course it’s important to realize that even if they Anet does change something with their current bundles, it will take some time for them to do so. Change doesn’t happen overnight, if it happens at all. That being said, for those that share my opinion on the matter, we need to be patient, but at the same time not be afraid to continue voicing our opinion. Likewise, those who think the bundles are fair are free to do so as well.

We can have both “White Knights” and “Entitled Crybabies” (like me!) on this forum debating. It’s what a forum is for after all: exchanging ideas and views on relevant issues.

So how do you answer the fact that WoW is doing this very thing now? That it makes sense for a company to do. That by not doing it they’re hurting their own game, they’re hurting their bottom line and yes, they’d be hurting their veteran players?

Wow bundles all expansions except the most current one together. In order to play their most recent expansion WoD you have to buy the base game, which includes vanilla up to mop. So $19.99 + $49.99 for a brand new player. Buying warlords of draenor without the base game doesn’t do anything for you. Of course a new player could just buy the base game, but they would only be able to access content up to level 90 where the new level cap is 100.
WoD by itself doesn’t include any precious expansions or vanilla.

I’m not sure that’s true, but even if it is, a person who was there all along, who bought each expansion at the time didn’t get that deal. New players got a better deal. Because it becomes harder and harder as time goes on to attract new players.

Yeah but the old players in that WoW scenario also aren’t being given bundle options that only sell the new expansion with all previous expansions + vanilla right? They can just purchase the newest expansion released without also including the price of previous releases in the cost, correct? I’m honestly not sure, as I stated earlier I don’t anything about WoW’s business model at the moment. But if my assumptions are correct it’s not the same as what Anet’s marketing is doing right now and is actually healthier for both old and new players alike for them.

But they did pay for something other people are getting for free, which is just like this. It’s just how it’s packaged. It’s not that big a mental leap to see how it’s the same. The decide was made for the same reason at WoW. The reasoning behind the decision lends credence to the idea that maybe, just maybe, we’re not paying extra.

A WoW player who bought every expansion would have spent well over a hundred dollars that a new player isn’t going to have to spend.

Vayne.8563:

godz raiden.2631:

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

godz raiden.2631:

DieselFueled.3257:

The precedent being set is every 3 years you pay 50-ish bucks to play gw2. I see no problem with that.

It’s more along the lines of, every 3 years abandon your primary account if you want to get the same value out of the package as a new customer. Once again, I’m glad customers get the opportunity to take advantage of these types of bundles. The lower the barrier for entry to them, the better. However, I cannot, currently, purchase a product of equal value to them at this time. I have already purchased vanilla in the past, I have no use for it now, so there is no logical reason for me, and a surprisingly large number of other customers, to purchase a current bundle.

The easiest solution to this would honestly be for Anet to just separate the bundle into two codes, one for vanilla, one for HoT, as this makes no difference for new players, and gives the exact same product value of the bundle into the hands of old players. There are simple solutions to this “problem” that would appease those who are hesitant to purchase the expansion at the moment. The marketing team just needs to design logical bundles of new players and old players, and then the criticism for all of this will die down significantly. Of course it’s important to realize that even if they Anet does change something with their current bundles, it will take some time for them to do so. Change doesn’t happen overnight, if it happens at all. That being said, for those that share my opinion on the matter, we need to be patient, but at the same time not be afraid to continue voicing our opinion. Likewise, those who think the bundles are fair are free to do so as well.

We can have both “White Knights” and “Entitled Crybabies” (like me!) on this forum debating. It’s what a forum is for after all: exchanging ideas and views on relevant issues.

So how do you answer the fact that WoW is doing this very thing now? That it makes sense for a company to do. That by not doing it they’re hurting their own game, they’re hurting their bottom line and yes, they’d be hurting their veteran players?

Wow bundles all expansions except the most current one together. In order to play their most recent expansion WoD you have to buy the base game, which includes vanilla up to mop. So $19.99 + $49.99 for a brand new player. Buying warlords of draenor without the base game doesn’t do anything for you. Of course a new player could just buy the base game, but they would only be able to access content up to level 90 where the new level cap is 100.
WoD by itself doesn’t include any precious expansions or vanilla.

I’m not sure that’s true, but even if it is, a person who was there all along, who bought each expansion at the time didn’t get that deal. New players got a better deal. Because it becomes harder and harder as time goes on to attract new players.

Yeah but the old players in that WoW scenario also aren’t being given bundle options that only sell the new expansion with all previous expansions + vanilla right? They can just purchase the newest expansion released without also including the price of previous releases in the cost, correct? I’m honestly not sure, as I stated earlier I don’t anything about WoW’s business model at the moment. But if my assumptions are correct it’s not the same as what Anet’s marketing is doing right now and is actually healthier for both old and new players alike for them.

But they did pay for something other people are getting for free, which is just like this. It’s just how it’s packaged. It’s not that big a mental leap to see how it’s the same. The decide was made for the same reason at WoW. The reasoning behind the decision lends credence to the idea that maybe, just maybe, we’re not paying extra.

A WoW player who bought every expansion would have spent well over a hundred dollars that a new player isn’t going to have to spend.

Wrong you have to buy the base game like every NEW expansion WoW releases.
https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/world-of-warcraft-warlords-of-draenor

But those of us who want to but basic edition and don’t want to delete a character DO have to pay extra!

We shouldn’t be forced to forego all the time and effort we have spent on our chars.

We shouldn’t be forced to spend MORE than pre purchase price of basic to play the new class.

Funny with all the posts about how much content we have had over the past years and all the events we got to do that we are now expected to delete one of the chars we levelled to 80 in festivals, mapped with, and maxed out a crafting discipline with!!!

If someone has maxed a crafting discipline on each of their chars why would they want to delete it and then have to spend 200g + on having to do it again?

Think people, think!!!

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

But those of us who want to but basic edition and don’t want to delete a character DO have to pay extra!

We shouldn’t be forced to forego all the time and effort we have spent on our chars.

We shouldn’t be forced to spend MORE than pre purchase price of basic to play the new class.

Funny with all the posts about how much content we have had over the past years and all the events we got to do that we are now expected to delete one of the chars we levelled to 80 in festivals, mapped with, and maxed out a crafting discipline with!!!

If someone has maxed a crafting discipline on each of their chars why would they want to delete it and then have to spend 200g + on having to do it again?

Think people, think!!!

And see, that’s where this whole argument about the equality of the customers comes into play. The extra money that old customers may be required to shell out to gain access to all of the new content makes the current bundles look even worse. All of the bundles are just really “meh” to veteran players who are also rational consumers. But, value is also based on perception, so those who have already prepurchased and are happy with that are entitled to be happy with their product. But those of us who see room for marketing improvement at Anet for them to be more inclusive to all of their customers, should never shy away from voicing our concerns and trying to do our part as loyal customers to influence their company in ways that better helps them convince us to exchange money for their goods.

With that, I retired for the evening. I know I made quite a few posts here tonight, so I suppose I’m not party responsible for keeping the “rage” alive, but I like to think that I presented my side of the argument in rather positive way. Sure, I generalized one side of the argument as “Anet Whiteknights” at one point, but I also gave myself the label “Entitled Crybaby,” so I hope everyone took those moments as jest. Whether you support the current marketing, or not, we’re all entitled to at least one thing, our opinions and our right to express them (so we should honestly stop telling each other to shut up).

I think the price seems reasonable but I do believe that requiring an additional purchase to make use of a core feature/significant selling point of the expansion (new class) is a bit off. I really think a character slot should be included.

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

But those of us who want to but basic edition and don’t want to delete a character DO have to pay extra!

We shouldn’t be forced to forego all the time and effort we have spent on our chars.

We shouldn’t be forced to spend MORE than pre purchase price of basic to play the new class.

Funny with all the posts about how much content we have had over the past years and all the events we got to do that we are now expected to delete one of the chars we levelled to 80 in festivals, mapped with, and maxed out a crafting discipline with!!!

If someone has maxed a crafting discipline on each of their chars why would they want to delete it and then have to spend 200g + on having to do it again?

Think people, think!!!

I believe you’re right. It should come with a character slot. But there are many people who are arguing something completely different. Those are the people I have a disagreement with. I think Anet should include a character slot in the base package. Of course then they probably have to add something to the two higher packages to balance it out.

So you get offer in your local cinema to watch movie for full price,but first 30min are removed and u must pay extra 10$ if u want to see beginning of movie,instead they give u bonus,extra ticket for another good movie but only if u are from another state and u never seen any movie in that cinema before….and u call person who refuse such a deal a greedy one?

Shadowsrb.6241:

So you get offer in your local cinema to watch movie for full price,but first 30min are removed and u must pay extra 10$ if u want to see beginning of movie,instead they give u bonus,extra ticket for another good movie but only if u are from another state and u never seen any movie in that cinema before….and u call person who refuse such a deal a greedy one?

Bad analogy is bad.

Shadowsrb.6241:

So you get offer in your local cinema to watch movie for full price,but first 30min are removed and u must pay extra 10$ if u want to see beginning of movie,instead they give u bonus,extra ticket for another good movie but only if u are from another state and u never seen any movie in that cinema before….and u call person who refuse such a deal a greedy one?

In no way an analogy related to this situation whatsoever

Lets keep in mind that there are a number of grievances, not all equal. Sometimes a person subscribes to more than one of these.

1) Perception of value. Giving new players the core game creates the perception that a veteran player gets less. This is made exacerbated by..

2) No character slot included in the cheapest tier, meaning players will have to pay/ farm for another slot, or delete a toon. Deleting a toon means missing out on that elite spec unless you have doubles. Because of the price of a slot is $10 people feel they’re paying effectively $60 for less product.

3) Limited reveals so far. It’s looking more and more like this expac will be more about features than playable content, in part because Anet’s been stingy with their reveals. It’s possible there is loads of playable content, but we don’t know that yet. This makes financially prudent customers weary and less willing to take the plunge.

I personally think preorders are a blight on the industry, but that’s a different argument.

Please don’t lump everone in the same group when debating them.

Why is it so hard to understand for some people that we, the current players of the game, are being given to options with HoT standard bundle:

1- abandon your current account and make a new one, so that you can get the full value of the product they’re selling;

2- use the HoT code on your current account, and therefore losing part of the product you are paying for;

There’s no third option in which current players are given something to make up for the loss of the product that they can’t use if they decide to go with option #2. And that ‘simple’ fact is whats causing most of the problem, especially if you’re someone that value your money/is unable to have a fixed income/lives somewhere like brasil (the price after the conversion rate hovers around $150 before taxes, that’s 1/4 of the minimum wage here)

Samhaim.8956:

2- use the HoT code on your current account, and therefore losing part of the product you are paying for;

What, exactly, are you paying for and losing out on? Now, before you answer, I’ll just reiterate that anet staff have repeatedly stated that with, or WITHOUT the core game included, you’d be needing to fork out $50 for the expac.

Basandra Skye.4031:

Samhaim.8956:

2- use the HoT code on your current account, and therefore losing part of the product you are paying for;

What, exactly, are you paying for and losing out on? Now, before you answer, I’ll just reiterate that anet staff have repeatedly stated that with, or WITHOUT the core game included, you’d be needing to fork out $50 for the expac.

Whether HoT is worth $50 with or without the base game is irrelevant, when you buy any version of HoT you gain the core game “free”, but you cannot use said “free” core game whatever way you so wish, you can’t apply HoT to your current account and keep the “free” core game as a mule account, you can’t gift it to a friend, your only option is to have a new account with HoT or no new account at all. Do you understand now?

• Just to make something clear, i have no problem paying $50 for HoT, some ppl might but i don’t, my problem is that part of what they’re offering is not being fully given out to me because i’m not a new player.