Guild Wars 2

Peets.8529:

Colly.4073:

Peets.8529:

MikaHR.1978:

Yeni.3507:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

Nasher.6874:

Yea, one of the selling points and attractions to GW2 was that it was NOT a grindfest. But they seem to be going back on that, so what’s the point in playing GW2 over others MMOs?

And it still isn’t, no grinding required to play all the content of this game, unlike other MMOs.

Wrong…again.

Actually eisberg.2379 is correct, there isn’t a game content that require Ascended Weapon or heavy grind to do, and every update living world event is open to anyone and everyone, every grindy content (i.e.Legendary, Ascended gear) they are all optional.

The only content that I can think of which require gear check is “high” level fractals, which is totally optional, and low level fractal is still open to anyone.

And its the same in other MMOs therefore he is wrong. But he has been explained that same thing at least 10 times by now soooo….

Soo, if I get it right then MMO = Grind.
Then those who do not like are playing a genre they don’t like?

People where drawn to this game because it was stated that this game would be “Different” than all other MMO’s in that there would be no need to grind “To Quote Mike Obrien, We don’t make grindy games”

So it’s not that people don’t like the Genre or the Grindy, They just don’t like being sold a product that will involve no grind when it is the complete opposite.

But then again, what you call grinding is something what I don’t call grinding.
So in your eyes they didn’t delivered what was promised but in my eyes they did.

I agree with this. Apparently my idea, and yours, of what a Grindy game is and Arenanet’s idea of a grindy game is are the same.

Those who feel that Arenanet “Lied” need to realize that their opinion of what a grindy game is, is different then what Arenanet, and many players, opinion of what a grindy game is.

I find that GW2 is playable entirely without grind. But that’s where it stops. If you want anything, and I mean anything beside basic gear for your character and access to content you need to grind more than I have ever experienced in any game. And that’s not what I had hoped for the game. That said they are getting better at rewarding players for being skilled which I like. But I don’t care for how much “optional grind” they are putting into the game.

eisberg.2379:

Those who feel that Arenanet “Lied” need to realize that their opinion of what a grindy game is, is different then what Arenanet, and many players, opinion of what a grindy game is.

For what it’s worth, at least the leveling curve in GW2 is flat. I have played crazy Asian MMOs where the amount of XP needed from one level to the next is exponential.

I think most players are unhappy with the fact that there is a huge time commitment required to get the ascended weapons. The time commitment doesn’t come in the form of # of hours required (although a significant component), but the fact that it would take weeks of crafting to fully gear out one toon.

For example, my WvW mesmer uses a sword, focus and staff. Assuming I get no weapon drops, and my progress is gated only by the daily crafting limit (i.e. no shortage of crafting materials), it would take 6 weeks before I have all the weapons I need. Any day where I don’t log in to craft is a day lost, for good; progress can’t be made up on the weekend. When a game has a zero-sum component to it, it becomes a chore rather than an enjoyable past-time.

I know I don’t have to log in daily, or that maybe it doesn’t take a long time to refine 1 ecto, but the fact is that at some point in my day I need to get on GW2 or I delay my progress.

353 replies and 7373 Views on this post and not one Dev Reply yet. Man they must be scared?

Yams.6082:

eisberg.2379:

Those who feel that Arenanet “Lied” need to realize that their opinion of what a grindy game is, is different then what Arenanet, and many players, opinion of what a grindy game is.

For what it’s worth, at least the leveling curve in GW2 is flat. I have played crazy Asian MMOs where the amount of XP needed from one level to the next is exponential.

I think most players are unhappy with the fact that there is a huge time commitment required to get the ascended weapons. The time commitment doesn’t come in the form of # of hours required (although a significant component), but the fact that it would take weeks of crafting to fully gear out one toon.

For example, my WvW mesmer uses a sword, focus and staff. Assuming I get no weapon drops, and my progress is gated only by the daily crafting limit (i.e. no shortage of crafting materials), it would take 6 weeks before I have all the weapons I need. Any day where I don’t log in to craft is a day lost, for good; progress can’t be made up on the weekend. When a game has a zero-sum component to it, it becomes a chore rather than an enjoyable past-time.

I know I don’t have to log in daily, or that maybe it doesn’t take a long time to refine 1 ecto, but the fact is that at some point in my day I need to get on GW2 or I delay my progress.

The good thing is, that delay in progress towards ascended weapons, will not delay you from completing any of the content this game has to offer. This delay will not delay you from getting to the fun stuff, as compared to other MMOs, any delay in getting gear can delay you from getting to the fun content. That is the difference between a grindy game and Guild Wars 2, no grinding needed to get to the fun stuff.

eisberg.2379:

The good thing is, that delay in progress towards ascended weapons, will not delay you from completing any of the content this game has to offer. This delay will not delay you from getting to the fun stuff, as compared to other MMOs, any delay in getting gear can delay you from getting to the fun content. That is the difference between a grindy game and Guild Wars 2, no grinding needed to get to the fun stuff.

But it will delay a lot my first legendary because it’s eating into my savings. It also delays by a lot (ie, forever) my exploration of alternate builds and stat sets because I’m not about to sink 50g into non BiS exotics for build testings or alts.

It discourages experimentation and globally greatly decreases the game enjoyment.

Theftwind.8976:

The sheer amount of materials required to fashion an ascended weapon is ludicrous. I have read fantasy novels ever since I was knee high to a grasshopper and considering “Stormbringer”, “Excalibur”, “Sting and Glamdring”, “Werewindle”, and “Callandor” nowhere could I find a sword that requires over 800 ingots of metal to create. (not counting all the other materials). One can overlook the 1,500 ingots used to create a Legendary such as Twilight as those are used to create a “Gift of Metal” which then becomes part of the sword’s creation. With Ascended however they do not even bother to hide the grind behind the story of a “Gift”, just throw all this stuff into a forge and you will get a sword light enough for you to wield with special powers.

They could have done it differently and still dragged out the process as long as they wanted to. Clues in the world to special recipes, certain beasts to kill for special reagents, skills that need to be required by practice, and so on.

Sadly game developers have lost the ability to tell stories in their games and to make those stories believable. That lack of believable storytelling is what turns great games into a grind. They take the easy/lazy way out by increasing or inflating the costs for items in materials or gold rather then adding real content and sadly this process exists in all games. A game starts out with great promise; there are new stories to be told; new discoveries to be made that fit the story being told but eventually they reach the point where that story no longer makes any sense. It gets lost in the inflation of gold/materials/time or more commonly known as the grind to fill in the gaps.

Single player games have a finite timeline. They have a beginning and an ending to tell a story and thus can be made to be more believable. MMO’s are meant to be ongoing so the timeline they can encompass does not end. The lack of a good story is filled in by the grind and this is a good example of that. One day, hopefully, a developer will begin to understand that the greater and more believable the story you tell the greater your game will be.

This game does not need more developers, it needs more story tellers.

Very good point.

lol fuk this I’m out

Theplayboy.6417:

Hey GW2 you should consider paying a salary to all of your customers because playing GW2 is a full time job.

Dude really.. lol.. get a life :P

It’s just a kitten game… xDDDD

so after a couple of days farming im make a break or perhaps im quit this game.its too much grind and thats not fun.it aquires no skill only much time for farming like a stupid monkey for these mats.I had a dropp of one but the stats arent for my class,its was a cleric one(im thief).Best now i cant sell these stupid thing (weapons,fragments,dragonit ect all acc bound)>.> ahh nono anet this update failed hard in my eyes.
also u cant spend any help for mates to craft these weapons because most of it is acc bound(Lol legendaries u can sell)

I can’t believe there are people that don’t consider this all to be a big grind.

Fernling.1729:

I can’t believe there are people that don’t consider this all to be a big grind.

It’s more that they crave the grind. Persevering through a long tedious task is a sign of endurance and strength. They can stand before their peers and say “I have done this ridiculous stupid tasks for hours on end and thus I get +3 to my power.” This, I must assume fills some void or tickles their pleasure centers in some way.

Basically, they dream of being Sisyphus.

Peets.8529:

Let’s assume that Ascended weapons are grind and we want to get rid of it.
We should be fair and remove all grind then.
You need to grind to get rewards in dungeons. So remove the tokens.
You need to grind to get exotic weapons, remove them.
That leaves only rares which are easy to get. So why not remove all the types and just stick with common which we can all get. Since we do not want to grind.
Same with weapons, trinkets, etc..
Then why not just let everyone choice everything they want at the start of the game like PvP. Grinding is gone.
Loot is then only gold, otherwise you can get grinding since we do not want to play a lot of time to get something. Actually, you no longer need gold since you get everything at the start. We can remove that too. Same with karma, laurels and everything else.
We just play content. I haven’t played this kind of boring games but is it Minecraft? (never played it so I can be wrong that there is grind)
I feel like this is an adventure platform game then and not a MMO or is that just me?
And if so are they playing the wrong genre?

Too bad Minecraft is 10x more popular than GW2. You were sayin?

There will always be differences of opinion on what is a lot….but it does look very boring to do regardless.

Lafiel.9372:

Theftwind.8976:

The sheer amount of materials required to fashion an ascended weapon is ludicrous. I have read fantasy novels ever since I was knee high to a grasshopper and considering “Stormbringer”, “Excalibur”, “Sting and Glamdring”, “Werewindle”, and “Callandor” nowhere could I find a sword that requires over 800 ingots of metal to create. (not counting all the other materials). One can overlook the 1,500 ingots used to create a Legendary such as Twilight as those are used to create a “Gift of Metal” which then becomes part of the sword’s creation. With Ascended however they do not even bother to hide the grind behind the story of a “Gift”, just throw all this stuff into a forge and you will get a sword light enough for you to wield with special powers.

They could have done it differently and still dragged out the process as long as they wanted to. Clues in the world to special recipes, certain beasts to kill for special reagents, skills that need to be required by practice, and so on.

Sadly game developers have lost the ability to tell stories in their games and to make those stories believable. That lack of believable storytelling is what turns great games into a grind. They take the easy/lazy way out by increasing or inflating the costs for items in materials or gold rather then adding real content and sadly this process exists in all games. A game starts out with great promise; there are new stories to be told; new discoveries to be made that fit the story being told but eventually they reach the point where that story no longer makes any sense. It gets lost in the inflation of gold/materials/time or more commonly known as the grind to fill in the gaps.

Single player games have a finite timeline. They have a beginning and an ending to tell a story and thus can be made to be more believable. MMO’s are meant to be ongoing so the timeline they can encompass does not end. The lack of a good story is filled in by the grind and this is a good example of that. One day, hopefully, a developer will begin to understand that the greater and more believable the story you tell the greater your game will be.

This game does not need more developers, it needs more story tellers.

Very good point.

Re-quoted – excellent point. I couldn’t have put it better.

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

Yeni.3507:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

Nasher.6874:

Yea, one of the selling points and attractions to GW2 was that it was NOT a grindfest. But they seem to be going back on that, so what’s the point in playing GW2 over others MMOs?

And it still isn’t, no grinding required to play all the content of this game, unlike other MMOs.

Wrong…again.

Actually eisberg.2379 is correct, there isn’t a game content that require Ascended Weapon or heavy grind to do, and every update living world event is open to anyone and everyone, every grindy content (i.e.Legendary, Ascended gear) they are all optional.

The only content that I can think of which require gear check is “high” level fractals, which is totally optional, and low level fractal is still open to anyone.

And its the same in other MMOs therefore he is wrong. But he has been explained that same thing at least 10 times by now soooo….

Up until someone told me that Blizzard made it so that you can see all the raids without having the gear from the previous raid, I didn’t know they did that. But before they did that recently, you had to grind out the current Raid over and over and over again till you can get the gear so you can get to the next fun part, and this has been true for every other MMO I have ever played. Guild Wars 2 is literally the first MMO I have played since 1999, that did not need any kind of grinding in order to get to the fun parts.

Arenanet set out to make a non grindy game, and they did it fantastically. Legendary are not needed for anything, ascended weapons are not needed for anything, ascended gear is only needed for Fractals, and you can get those by just completing the levels and you are not stuck on the same level of fractal till you get gear to get to the next fun part.

So no, it is not the same as every other MMO, which makes you wrong.

And as i said, you lack experience and thus make wrong claims.

Noone cares about 1999 or 5 years ago.

Yams.6082:

eisberg.2379:

Those who feel that Arenanet “Lied” need to realize that their opinion of what a grindy game is, is different then what Arenanet, and many players, opinion of what a grindy game is.

For what it’s worth, at least the leveling curve in GW2 is flat. I have played crazy Asian MMOs where the amount of XP needed from one level to the next is exponential.

I think most players are unhappy with the fact that there is a huge time commitment required to get the ascended weapons. The time commitment doesn’t come in the form of # of hours required (although a significant component), but the fact that it would take weeks of crafting to fully gear out one toon.

For example, my WvW mesmer uses a sword, focus and staff. Assuming I get no weapon drops, and my progress is gated only by the daily crafting limit (i.e. no shortage of crafting materials), it would take 6 weeks before I have all the weapons I need. Any day where I don’t log in to craft is a day lost, for good; progress can’t be made up on the weekend. When a game has a zero-sum component to it, it becomes a chore rather than an enjoyable past-time.

I know I don’t have to log in daily, or that maybe it doesn’t take a long time to refine 1 ecto, but the fact is that at some point in my day I need to get on GW2 or I delay my progress.

And consider this: you spend 6 weeks grinding mats and logging in religiously to craft your weapons…and then they nerf your build to he ground and you need new weapons.

Its FUN i tell ya!

everyone in here should read what Theftwind.8976 said and think for a sec. What anet is doing is wrong for the game’s good and not because you’re currently playing and liking the majority of gw2 that you should ignore this bs and tell others its all good n swell. Do you want them to become the next EA? I don’t.

TooBz.3065:

Fernling.1729:

I can’t believe there are people that don’t consider this all to be a big grind.

It’s more that they crave the grind. Persevering through a long tedious task is a sign of endurance and strength. They can stand before their peers and say “I have done this ridiculous stupid tasks for hours on end and thus I get +3 to my power.” This, I must assume fills some void or tickles their pleasure centers in some way.

Basically, they dream of being Sisyphus.

They have been conditioned by previous MMOs to react that way: google Skinner box

Even 1 WoW dev recently whined about players reacting in a certain way and not some other. Ironic thing is: WoW conditioned players for years to react that way, what did he expect lol

Lambent.6375:

If the other mats are anything like this, I wouldn’t be too worried.

You obviously saved up your champ bags to be opened after the update. Don’t be disingenuous.

MikaHR.1978:

Even 1 WoW dev recently whined about players reacting in a certain way and not some other. Ironic thing is: WoW conditioned players for years to react that way, what did he expect lol

That’s interesting. Do you have a link for that?

Cuchullain.3104:

Lambent.6375:

If the other mats are anything like this, I wouldn’t be too worried.

You obviously saved up your champ bags to be opened after the update. Don’t be disingenuous.

The bags I had saved up was only from 2 days of champ farming over the weekend, and no, I was not on all day, it really doesn’t take that many bags to reach 500 bloodstones dust.

stof.9341:

MikaHR.1978:

Even 1 WoW dev recently whined about players reacting in a certain way and not some other. Ironic thing is: WoW conditioned players for years to react that way, what did he expect lol

That’s interesting. Do you have a link for that?

http://www.pcgamesn.com/wow/blizzard-talks-mistakes-training-players-hunt-quest-markers-and-how-pet-battles-won-hearts-community

there you go

MikaHR.1978:

http://www.pcgamesn.com/wow/blizzard-talks-mistakes-training-players-hunt-quest-markers-and-how-pet-battles-won-hearts-community

there you go

Thanks. Very interesting. I like this part :

We shot ourselves in the foot when we removed the limit on the daily quests that you could do,” explained Chilton to us at Gamescom. “So there was a pressure to maximise everything… and that really leads [players] to burn out.”

This can be applied to so many things! Like :
- You don’t need ascended.
- But but but, better stats! But the grind sucks I’m sick of it :’(

You don’t need ascended, but people should recognize there is in many players a pressure to maximize everything. Skins are probably mostly exempt from that because we maximize efficiency, not looks which is subjective. Better stats are not, so people feel forced to get ascended and the grind is burning then which induces complaints.

Treeline.3865:

I find that GW2 is playable entirely without grind. But that’s where it stops. If you want anything, and I mean anything beside basic gear for your character and access to content you need to grind more than I have ever experienced in any game. And that’s not what I had hoped for the game. That said they are getting better at rewarding players for being skilled which I like. But I don’t care for how much “optional grind” they are putting into the game.

Couldn’t agree more, this is spot on IMO.

My biggest concern is the “amount” of bottlenecks being placed in the game. At release and some patches in only a few things had very distinguished bottlenecks, most notably Legendary and the pre-cursor requirements which are generally harder to get then all the other mats combined. Previously, that bottleneck is not so much about time, but on luck or the ability to save gold. which ever happens first. Notice that this bottleneck was also trade-able, which made them highly sought after and desired.

Now with the new system they moved it a step forward by giving the “option” of crafting them. However it’s become a step forward and two steps back by adding yet another bottleneck, which is the same exact same type of bottleneck as Celestial gear. The kicker and the point that makes absolutely NO sense is that these new bottlenecks were added for “Account Bound” items.

Ummm, what do “you” care how fast or how slow someone makes something they want, that only THEY can use? Does it really change “your” game play that much? Trade able items, I can at least understand the logic for a bottleneck here and there, but account bound….really? It can only be added along the lines with a /facepalm and /eyeroll

Here’s my point to the Dev team, if someone being able to get content sooner then latter is a detriment to the game somehow, you have already done something seriously wrong in terms of balance, and that can and will need fixing.

TL:DR- Bottlenecks for Account bound = BAD idea. Trade-able? Least there’s some logic behind it, especially when one considers the game to have a “living economy”.

Domino.1359:

Lafiel.9372:

Theftwind.8976:

The sheer amount of materials required to fashion an ascended weapon is ludicrous. I have read fantasy novels ever since I was knee high to a grasshopper and considering “Stormbringer”, “Excalibur”, “Sting and Glamdring”, “Werewindle”, and “Callandor” nowhere could I find a sword that requires over 800 ingots of metal to create. (not counting all the other materials). One can overlook the 1,500 ingots used to create a Legendary such as Twilight as those are used to create a “Gift of Metal” which then becomes part of the sword’s creation. With Ascended however they do not even bother to hide the grind behind the story of a “Gift”, just throw all this stuff into a forge and you will get a sword light enough for you to wield with special powers.

They could have done it differently and still dragged out the process as long as they wanted to. Clues in the world to special recipes, certain beasts to kill for special reagents, skills that need to be required by practice, and so on.

Sadly game developers have lost the ability to tell stories in their games and to make those stories believable. That lack of believable storytelling is what turns great games into a grind. They take the easy/lazy way out by increasing or inflating the costs for items in materials or gold rather then adding real content and sadly this process exists in all games. A game starts out with great promise; there are new stories to be told; new discoveries to be made that fit the story being told but eventually they reach the point where that story no longer makes any sense. It gets lost in the inflation of gold/materials/time or more commonly known as the grind to fill in the gaps.

Single player games have a finite timeline. They have a beginning and an ending to tell a story and thus can be made to be more believable. MMO’s are meant to be ongoing so the timeline they can encompass does not end. The lack of a good story is filled in by the grind and this is a good example of that. One day, hopefully, a developer will begin to understand that the greater and more believable the story you tell the greater your game will be.

This game does not need more developers, it needs more story tellers.

Very good point.

Re-quoted – excellent point. I couldn’t have put it better.

It is excellent and its how legendaries themselves should have been implemented.

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

Yeni.3507:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

Nasher.6874:

Yea, one of the selling points and attractions to GW2 was that it was NOT a grindfest. But they seem to be going back on that, so what’s the point in playing GW2 over others MMOs?

And it still isn’t, no grinding required to play all the content of this game, unlike other MMOs.

Wrong…again.

Actually eisberg.2379 is correct, there isn’t a game content that require Ascended Weapon or heavy grind to do, and every update living world event is open to anyone and everyone, every grindy content (i.e.Legendary, Ascended gear) they are all optional.

The only content that I can think of which require gear check is “high” level fractals, which is totally optional, and low level fractal is still open to anyone.

And its the same in other MMOs therefore he is wrong. But he has been explained that same thing at least 10 times by now soooo….

Up until someone told me that Blizzard made it so that you can see all the raids without having the gear from the previous raid, I didn’t know they did that. But before they did that recently, you had to grind out the current Raid over and over and over again till you can get the gear so you can get to the next fun part, and this has been true for every other MMO I have ever played. Guild Wars 2 is literally the first MMO I have played since 1999, that did not need any kind of grinding in order to get to the fun parts.

Arenanet set out to make a non grindy game, and they did it fantastically. Legendary are not needed for anything, ascended weapons are not needed for anything, ascended gear is only needed for Fractals, and you can get those by just completing the levels and you are not stuck on the same level of fractal till you get gear to get to the next fun part.

So no, it is not the same as every other MMO, which makes you wrong.

And as i said, you lack experience and thus make wrong claims.

Noone cares about 1999 or 5 years ago.

I was thinking the same about you, you must have been playing MMOs for less than 5 years. I have been playing MMOs since 1999, yet some how I am the one that lacks experience? =D. I have been playing MMOs for so long, that I know what a grindy game is, and Guild Wars 2 is not one. Just because there is optional grind, doesn’t mean it is a grindy game. GW2 is an optional grind, and not needed to participate and complete all content.

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

Yeni.3507:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

Nasher.6874:

Yea, one of the selling points and attractions to GW2 was that it was NOT a grindfest. But they seem to be going back on that, so what’s the point in playing GW2 over others MMOs?

And it still isn’t, no grinding required to play all the content of this game, unlike other MMOs.

Wrong…again.

Actually eisberg.2379 is correct, there isn’t a game content that require Ascended Weapon or heavy grind to do, and every update living world event is open to anyone and everyone, every grindy content (i.e.Legendary, Ascended gear) they are all optional.

The only content that I can think of which require gear check is “high” level fractals, which is totally optional, and low level fractal is still open to anyone.

And its the same in other MMOs therefore he is wrong. But he has been explained that same thing at least 10 times by now soooo….

Up until someone told me that Blizzard made it so that you can see all the raids without having the gear from the previous raid, I didn’t know they did that. But before they did that recently, you had to grind out the current Raid over and over and over again till you can get the gear so you can get to the next fun part, and this has been true for every other MMO I have ever played. Guild Wars 2 is literally the first MMO I have played since 1999, that did not need any kind of grinding in order to get to the fun parts.

Arenanet set out to make a non grindy game, and they did it fantastically. Legendary are not needed for anything, ascended weapons are not needed for anything, ascended gear is only needed for Fractals, and you can get those by just completing the levels and you are not stuck on the same level of fractal till you get gear to get to the next fun part.

So no, it is not the same as every other MMO, which makes you wrong.

And as i said, you lack experience and thus make wrong claims.

Noone cares about 1999 or 5 years ago.

I was thinking the same about you, you must have been playing MMOs for less than 5 years. I have been playing MMOs since 1999, yet some how I am the one that lacks experience? =D. I have been playing MMOs for so long, that I know what a grindy game is, and Guild Wars 2 is not one. Just because there is optional grind, doesn’t mean it is a grindy game. GW2 is an optional grind, and not needed to participate and complete all content.

Dont play MMOs guys thats the message. Even one without a subscription fee.

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

Yeni.3507:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

Nasher.6874:

Yea, one of the selling points and attractions to GW2 was that it was NOT a grindfest. But they seem to be going back on that, so what’s the point in playing GW2 over others MMOs?

And it still isn’t, no grinding required to play all the content of this game, unlike other MMOs.

Wrong…again.

Actually eisberg.2379 is correct, there isn’t a game content that require Ascended Weapon or heavy grind to do, and every update living world event is open to anyone and everyone, every grindy content (i.e.Legendary, Ascended gear) they are all optional.

The only content that I can think of which require gear check is “high” level fractals, which is totally optional, and low level fractal is still open to anyone.

And its the same in other MMOs therefore he is wrong. But he has been explained that same thing at least 10 times by now soooo….

Up until someone told me that Blizzard made it so that you can see all the raids without having the gear from the previous raid, I didn’t know they did that. But before they did that recently, you had to grind out the current Raid over and over and over again till you can get the gear so you can get to the next fun part, and this has been true for every other MMO I have ever played. Guild Wars 2 is literally the first MMO I have played since 1999, that did not need any kind of grinding in order to get to the fun parts.

Arenanet set out to make a non grindy game, and they did it fantastically. Legendary are not needed for anything, ascended weapons are not needed for anything, ascended gear is only needed for Fractals, and you can get those by just completing the levels and you are not stuck on the same level of fractal till you get gear to get to the next fun part.

So no, it is not the same as every other MMO, which makes you wrong.

And as i said, you lack experience and thus make wrong claims.

Noone cares about 1999 or 5 years ago.

I was thinking the same about you, you must have been playing MMOs for less than 5 years. I have been playing MMOs since 1999, yet some how I am the one that lacks experience? =D. I have been playing MMOs for so long, that I know what a grindy game is, and Guild Wars 2 is not one. Just because there is optional grind, doesn’t mean it is a grindy game. GW2 is an optional grind, and not needed to participate and complete all content.

Spare us all, as i said noone cares about 1999. Or 5 years ago. You know nothing about what i have and have not played, and thats because noone cares.

And im glad you realized your mistake. At least something.

Well I don’t know about other people but my idea of what ‘grind’ is, is having to perform a small tedious task dozens or even hundreds of times to reach a goal instead of doing just one big task.

In other words…

Doing something that take 10 minutes to do, 12 times would be a grind vs doing something once that takes 120 minutes.

Crafting is a whole different issue with me. Looking at the size of your typical steel ingot, you could fashion a sword from just one. Yet in games it requires a dozen or more.

I’d rather see more realistic quantities, with the more rare materials gated behind game content that takes time to do (see one 120 minute task and not 12 ten minute tasks), and instead of the player crafting the item instantly for simply having the materials, the creation of the item should go into a crafting queue for which the player can go do other things while they wait. So not only is getting the materials not a grind, it’s actually more realistic and can still be something that takes the same amount of time to get in the end.

Deamhan.9538:

Well I don’t know about other people but my idea of what ‘grind’ is, is having to perform a small tedious task dozens or even hundreds of times to reach a goal instead of doing just one big task.

In other words…

Doing something that take 10 minutes to do, 12 times would be a grind vs doing something once that takes 120 minutes.

Crafting is a whole different issue with me. Looking at the size of your typical steel ingot, you could fashion a sword from just one. Yet in games it requires a dozen or more.

I’d rather see more realistic quantities, with the more rare materials gated behind game content that takes time to do (see one 120 minute task and not 12 ten minute tasks), and instead of the player crafting the item instantly for simply having the materials, the creation of the item should go into a crafting queue for which the player can go do other things while they wait. So not only is getting the materials not a grind, it’s actually more realistic and can still be something that takes the same amount of time to get in the end.

10 12 min tasks will be much longer than that because of “travel” time and loading etc.

Just to add my two cents, I find crafting unbelievably boring. I never craft in any game and in order to get gear, I need to grind mats over and over, which isn’t that awful because at least you’re interacting with the world and being active.

Then I need to stand in front of a crafting station when I would rather actually be doing actual content – challenging content- to get my weapons. Fractals are meant to be hard content and should reward these items as well as the rest of the jewelry.

On top of that, it looks like we’re going to be forced to craft armour as well. You can’t say that you don’t need to because if you don’t have ascended eventually, you’re just dragging your group down, locked out of high level fractals and locked out of the skins. Add in other ways to get gear that requires actual skill, please. Make it kitten hard.

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

Yeni.3507:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

Nasher.6874:

Yea, one of the selling points and attractions to GW2 was that it was NOT a grindfest. But they seem to be going back on that, so what’s the point in playing GW2 over others MMOs?

And it still isn’t, no grinding required to play all the content of this game, unlike other MMOs.

Wrong…again.

Actually eisberg.2379 is correct, there isn’t a game content that require Ascended Weapon or heavy grind to do, and every update living world event is open to anyone and everyone, every grindy content (i.e.Legendary, Ascended gear) they are all optional.

The only content that I can think of which require gear check is “high” level fractals, which is totally optional, and low level fractal is still open to anyone.

And its the same in other MMOs therefore he is wrong. But he has been explained that same thing at least 10 times by now soooo….

Up until someone told me that Blizzard made it so that you can see all the raids without having the gear from the previous raid, I didn’t know they did that. But before they did that recently, you had to grind out the current Raid over and over and over again till you can get the gear so you can get to the next fun part, and this has been true for every other MMO I have ever played. Guild Wars 2 is literally the first MMO I have played since 1999, that did not need any kind of grinding in order to get to the fun parts.

Arenanet set out to make a non grindy game, and they did it fantastically. Legendary are not needed for anything, ascended weapons are not needed for anything, ascended gear is only needed for Fractals, and you can get those by just completing the levels and you are not stuck on the same level of fractal till you get gear to get to the next fun part.

So no, it is not the same as every other MMO, which makes you wrong.

And as i said, you lack experience and thus make wrong claims.

Noone cares about 1999 or 5 years ago.

I was thinking the same about you, you must have been playing MMOs for less than 5 years. I have been playing MMOs since 1999, yet some how I am the one that lacks experience? =D. I have been playing MMOs for so long, that I know what a grindy game is, and Guild Wars 2 is not one. Just because there is optional grind, doesn’t mean it is a grindy game. GW2 is an optional grind, and not needed to participate and complete all content.

Spare us all, as i said noone cares about 1999. Or 5 years ago. You know nothing about what i have and have not played, and thats because noone cares.

And im glad you realized your mistake. At least something.

I made no mistake in the first place, so don’t know where you are getting “realized your mistake” I have been stating the whole time, GW2 is not a grindy game because no grind is needed to complete any of the content in order to continue on and get to the fun parts.

Gehenna.3625:

There will always be differences of opinion on what is a lot….but it does look very boring to do regardless.

That’s my deal. I think I’m gonna wait awhile until they do the standard MMO business of making the gear easy as crap to get a few months down the road. That or its more “content” that doesn’t apply to me. /shrug

Peppit.9057:

Just to add my two cents, I find crafting unbelievably boring. I never craft in any game and in order to get gear, I need to grind mats over and over, which isn’t that awful because at least you’re interacting with the world and being active.

Then I need to stand in front of a crafting station when I would rather actually be doing actual content – challenging content- to get my weapons. Fractals are meant to be hard content and should reward these items as well as the rest of the jewelry.

On top of that, it looks like we’re going to be forced to craft armour as well. You can’t say that you don’t need to because if you don’t have ascended eventually, you’re just dragging your group down, locked out of high level fractals and locked out of the skins. Add in other ways to get gear that requires actual skill, please. Make it kitten hard.

totally agree with 2nd paragraph, crafting is the worst and when everything added by this company is craft-craft-craft-TP-craft it gets old and old real quick.

Hrithmus.2583:

353 replies and 7373 Views on this post and not one Dev Reply yet. Man they must be scared?

They’re not going to reply. They’re not going tell us they’re all in with the grind, and the time-gating, and the carrots, and the treadmills, and the rng cash shop items. They’re not going to tell us this, but it’s very clear that’s exactly what this game has degenerated into. All telling us would do is stir the hornets’ nest. And the hornets are already angry, so they’re keeping their distance.

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

MikaHR.1978:

Yeni.3507:

MikaHR.1978:

eisberg.2379:

Nasher.6874:

Yea, one of the selling points and attractions to GW2 was that it was NOT a grindfest. But they seem to be going back on that, so what’s the point in playing GW2 over others MMOs?

And it still isn’t, no grinding required to play all the content of this game, unlike other MMOs.

Wrong…again.

Actually eisberg.2379 is correct, there isn’t a game content that require Ascended Weapon or heavy grind to do, and every update living world event is open to anyone and everyone, every grindy content (i.e.Legendary, Ascended gear) they are all optional.

The only content that I can think of which require gear check is “high” level fractals, which is totally optional, and low level fractal is still open to anyone.

And its the same in other MMOs therefore he is wrong. But he has been explained that same thing at least 10 times by now soooo….

Up until someone told me that Blizzard made it so that you can see all the raids without having the gear from the previous raid, I didn’t know they did that. But before they did that recently, you had to grind out the current Raid over and over and over again till you can get the gear so you can get to the next fun part, and this has been true for every other MMO I have ever played. Guild Wars 2 is literally the first MMO I have played since 1999, that did not need any kind of grinding in order to get to the fun parts.

Arenanet set out to make a non grindy game, and they did it fantastically. Legendary are not needed for anything, ascended weapons are not needed for anything, ascended gear is only needed for Fractals, and you can get those by just completing the levels and you are not stuck on the same level of fractal till you get gear to get to the next fun part.

So no, it is not the same as every other MMO, which makes you wrong.

And as i said, you lack experience and thus make wrong claims.

Noone cares about 1999 or 5 years ago.

I was thinking the same about you, you must have been playing MMOs for less than 5 years. I have been playing MMOs since 1999, yet some how I am the one that lacks experience? =D. I have been playing MMOs for so long, that I know what a grindy game is, and Guild Wars 2 is not one. Just because there is optional grind, doesn’t mean it is a grindy game. GW2 is an optional grind, and not needed to participate and complete all content.

Spare us all, as i said noone cares about 1999. Or 5 years ago. You know nothing about what i have and have not played, and thats because noone cares.

And im glad you realized your mistake. At least something.

I made no mistake in the first place, so don’t know where you are getting “realized your mistake” I have been stating the whole time, GW2 is not a grindy game because no grind is needed to complete any of the content in order to continue on and get to the fun parts.

You seem like the type of guy that will say kitten like “oh you want that dungeon set? go grind out that dungeon..but thats optional”
“You want that legendary? go *grind*out that legendary, but thats optional
you want to get those trinkets? go grind out those dailies but thats optional.
you want those exotics? go grind out some gold or grind out some events, but thats optional.
want to go get some weapon skins? go grind out those tickets or grind those rng boxes, but thats optional.”
…..then he’ll say the fun stuff isn’t behind a grind.

Talking about playin the wrong genre…HAH!..isn’t this the game that campaigned on revolutionizing the genre? Now people like this guy are backing them up for doing what pretty much every other mmo does, and just to be clear thats perfectly fine to feel that way, but to say its not a grindy game, tho, is a load of kittens.

I really hate to say it… but these things

- Time-gating
- Dailies
- Massive crafting grind costs for ascended weapons

… they remind me of Farmville.

Tulki.1458:

I really hate to say it… but these things

- Time-gating
- Dailies
- Massive crafting grind costs for ascended weapons

… they remind me of Farmville.

Guild Wars 2 IS a Facebook title, so that’s normal.

Hrithmus.2583:

353 replies and 7373 Views on this post and not one Dev Reply yet. Man they must be scared?

It’s typical for them. There’s an 11000+ post thread about Ascended gear that got started back in November. Their only response was to close it.

They don’t do customer feedback.

B> Anet reply, offering 1k gold + set of lodestones

Tulki.1458:

I really hate to say it… but these things

- Time-gating
- Dailies
- Massive crafting grind costs for ascended weapons

… they remind me of Farmville.

Youre not alone, they are taking stuff directly out of facebook games.

Chuo.4238:

Hrithmus.2583:

353 replies and 7373 Views on this post and not one Dev Reply yet. Man they must be scared?

It’s typical for them. There’s an 11000+ post thread about Ascended gear that got started back in November. Their only response was to close it.

They don’t do customer feedback.

Yup, and i pretty much rofl when i hear people mentioning they introduced gear treadmill and are in process of introducing epic grinds because of “feedback”.

darkace.8925:

Amun Ra.6435:

Anet has had zero idea on which direction it wants to go this past year.

I wouldn’t go that far, but I will say I’ve had the impression they’re flailing about, trying desperately to be too many things to too many people. And I’ve got to say, the result has been…underwhelming.

We don’t usually agree, but this i agree on +1.

Hrithmus.2583:

353 replies and 7373 Views on this post and not one Dev Reply yet. Man they must be scared?

Because they know its pointless. Whatever they would say themselves has been said many times over by regular players. Did any of that chance a single opinion of either side?

A post by the devs would be counter productive. All it would do is cause more rage in the end.

Galen Grey.4709:

Hrithmus.2583:

353 replies and 7373 Views on this post and not one Dev Reply yet. Man they must be scared?

Because they know its pointless. Whatever they would say themselves has been said many times over by regular players. Did any of that chance a single opinion of either side?

A post by the devs would be counter productive. All it would do is cause more rage in the end.

This is true. Everyone paid for the game, I don’t see how devs taking sides would help at all.

Fernling.1729:

I can’t believe there are people that don’t consider this all to be a big grind.

I can assure you those people cannot believe how some people feel its a big grind.

You know why that is? because grind or not grind are not absolutes. You look at a car and say it has 4 wheels. Someone disagreeing with that would be indeed perplexing because there is no ambiguity with the number of wheels, you just have to count them.

Grind though is not an absolute. It is something that depends on a bunch of factors chief amongst which is how you approach it.

Let me illustrate…

Legendary weapon… some look at them and go… OMG, 500 of this, 250 of that, 250 of that other stuff there, etc.. etc.. EPIC grind…

Other so… ohh so I have to play dungeons, PVE, Do some gathering some WvW etc…
What would I be playing if I wouldnt be trying to create a legendary weapon?
Dungeons, PvE, gathering, WvW etc… Ohh so all I need to do is play the game, keep the stuff I get while playing the game and some months down the line I will be able to build my legendary. Awesome 0 Grind whatsoever, this is so much better then MMO X where I had to repeat raid y z amount of times.

None of them would be lieing, none of them would have a skewed perception, they just approach the task differently.

Peppit.9057:

Just to add my two cents, I find crafting unbelievably boring. I never craft in any game and in order to get gear, I need to grind mats over and over, which isn’t that awful because at least you’re interacting with the world and being active.

Then I need to stand in front of a crafting station when I would rather actually be doing actual content – challenging content- to get my weapons. Fractals are meant to be hard content and should reward these items as well as the rest of the jewelry.

On top of that, it looks like we’re going to be forced to craft armour as well. You can’t say that you don’t need to because if you don’t have ascended eventually, you’re just dragging your group down, locked out of high level fractals and locked out of the skins. Add in other ways to get gear that requires actual skill, please. Make it kitten hard.

Thats why they didnt make crafting the only way to get an ascended weapon they also drop from high end content. World Bosses, Champions, Jumping Puzzles, WvW etc… IF crafting is not your think then do one of those other activities that might be more in line with what you enjoy doing.

Galen Grey.4709:

Peppit.9057:

Just to add my two cents, I find crafting unbelievably boring. I never craft in any game and in order to get gear, I need to grind mats over and over, which isn’t that awful because at least you’re interacting with the world and being active.

Then I need to stand in front of a crafting station when I would rather actually be doing actual content – challenging content- to get my weapons. Fractals are meant to be hard content and should reward these items as well as the rest of the jewelry.

On top of that, it looks like we’re going to be forced to craft armour as well. You can’t say that you don’t need to because if you don’t have ascended eventually, you’re just dragging your group down, locked out of high level fractals and locked out of the skins. Add in other ways to get gear that requires actual skill, please. Make it kitten hard.

Thats why they didnt make crafting the only way to get an ascended weapon they also drop from high end content. World Bosses, Champions, Jumping Puzzles, WvW etc… IF crafting is not your think then do one of those other activities that might be more in line with what you enjoy doing.

If the drop rate is anything like for exotics it’ll be bad. Plus you don’t get to choose the stats. Plus it’s account bound.

darkace.8925:

Red Falcon.8257:

Seriously guys they’ve been saying there would be a gear treadmill since October 2012.
If you wanted to quit over gear treamills policy you shouldn’t be here to begin with.

They said, explicitly, the only grinding in this game would be for cosmetic items.

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

- Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet

Does the addition of ascended weapons fall in line with what was said by Mike O’Brien?

You can quote that all you like, but they said that Ascended gear would be introduced more recently than that quote:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Since we knew these were going to be coming out, why stick around if you didn’t agree with it?