Guild Wars 2

Players who play many characters get hit hardest with the way ascended gear is obtained

Afro Dude.8423:

MrInfinit.1864:

Afro Dude.8423:

Don’t get me wrong here, I love this game to death! You can tell that a lot of love was put into it. But seeing such hypocritically long mandatory gear grinds from a company that says “we don’t make grindy games” really is a downer.

It’s not a mandatory gear grind. It doesn’t give you any noticeable advantage over those who don’t have ascended. It’s not going to sway the outcome in WvW. I have yet to see any real reason to chase after this gear other than WANTING to have the best stats, not NEEDING them. It’s quite optional and exists solely for those who want to chase this kind of gear progression.

Yes, for now it may be, but what about when more pieces come out? Just look at the stat difference between rings:

Ascended – Red Ring of Death

Power: 104
Precision: 69
Crit dmg: +8%

Exotic – Berserker Ring + Exquisite Ruby

Power: 92
Precision: 63
Crit Dmg: +6%
—

So comparing the two we get Ascended being better by:

Power: 13% better
Precision: 9.5% better
Crit Dmg: 33% better

So yes, it will make a noticeable difference down the line. It may not be noticeable now, but when that glass cannon thief in full ascended gear is backstabbing you, it will hit all that much harder.

Bad math is bad. You can’t compare them to each other… you need to compare them as a whole. Your example adds 12 power.

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

So, plugging in numbers using the amulet on my mesmer as an example:

Before: 1100*1982*.5/1000 = 1090.1 (Assuming a coefficient of .5 and an armor of 1000 to simplify the math)
After: 1100*1994*.5/1000= 1096.7

(1096.7 – 1090.1)/ 1096.7 = .0060 or a single attack damage increase (not DPS) of approx. 0.60%.

Thats kinda like saying exotics only give an advantage on paper.. the diffrence is about the same..

Fact is skill will always be the biggest advantage in a game like this, though between two equally skilled players that stat diffrence would be plenty noticeable.

And Yes RoRo, this does definatly hit players with alts the hardest, which is kinda strange considering selling char slots is one of arena nets main incomes..

I personally am not against ascended gear at all, but I have to say the way to aquire them is the most backwards and idiotic gear progression i have seen in any mmo so far..

Thanks Kilrain, but ThiBash gave a much more detailed response, lol. You know, I honestly wouldn’t have a problem with the gear if the devs just made it reasonable to acquire. It only makes things worse that they throw this gear in with fun stuff like the mini or the cat tonic. Plus the fact that while laurels are account wide, those of us with alts are effectively screwed.

Fletch.3572:

I kittening hate not being able to actually run events/dungeons/wvw or what ever to get my kittening gear. This god kitten daily kitten is for subs to keep subbing get it the kitten out and let me go on a weekend grind fest and let me get my kittening gear so the following weekend I don’t have to worry about it f f s

kitten off I’m an addict and I’m kinda kitten =D

You have a kitten litter there dude.
What?

I would just like to be able to obtain the gear on my terms and the timeframe that I set up. Nnot be forced to do stuff I really do not want to do. I wish they would just release all aspect to acquire this gear like exotics through crafting , karma, laurels etc. But have all the gear be available through everyone of those methods instead of some this way and some that way.
I would like to play the game the way I want to play it and acquire the gear the way I want to acquire it instead of being told that you can only get it this way.

Sardonia.8196:

I would just like to be able to obtain the gear on my terms and the timeframe that I set up. Nnot be forced to do stuff I really do not want to do. I wish they would just release all aspect to acquire this gear like exotics through crafting , karma, laurels etc. But have all the gear be available through everyone of those methods instead of some this way and some that way.
I would like to play the game the way I want to play it and acquire the gear the way I want to acquire it instead of being told that you can only get it this way.

Maybe you’ve missed the part where more and more ascended gear is becoming available by more and more means. Just because this is the first way they’re introducing ascended trinkets doesn’t mean it’ll be the only way.

MrInfinit.1864:

It gives a noticeable advantage, on paper.

Sure, the 20% added critical damage from my earlier example doesn’t change anything at all compared to exotic. Nor does the free 16% magic find. Or the like 100 stats (where 100 power would roughly equal a 7% damage increase).

No, it won’t do anything at all.

Sardonia.8196:

I would just like to be able to obtain the gear on my terms and the timeframe that I set up. Nnot be forced to do stuff I really do not want to do. I wish they would just release all aspect to acquire this gear like exotics through crafting , karma, laurels etc. But have all the gear be available through everyone of those methods instead of some this way and some that way.
I would like to play the game the way I want to play it and acquire the gear the way I want to acquire it instead of being told that you can only get it this way.

Thats how the game was initially touted by the devs. Play the way…YOU want to play.

-I want to craft. But i cant craft ascended items.
-I want to run dynamic events in Orr and map complete. Well, hopefully along the way you complete your dailys, otherwise you wont get your ascended gear.
-I want to dungeon farm. Again, hopefully you complete the dailys for the laurels if you want that ascended gear.
-All I want to do is WvW…same thing.

If you want BiS gear because thats how you want to play, but you only want to do WvW, well then youre screwed with getting BiS gear.

Then at this point we will have 6 ascended pieces available: 2 rings, 2 earrings, 1 amulet, and a backpiece? Plus the slots/infusions.
Just making sure.
And kittens are cute til they become cats.

VOLKON.1290:

Sardonia.8196:

I would just like to be able to obtain the gear on my terms and the timeframe that I set up. Nnot be forced to do stuff I really do not want to do. I wish they would just release all aspect to acquire this gear like exotics through crafting , karma, laurels etc. But have all the gear be available through everyone of those methods instead of some this way and some that way.
I would like to play the game the way I want to play it and acquire the gear the way I want to acquire it instead of being told that you can only get it this way.

Maybe you’ve missed the part where more and more ascended gear is becoming available by more and more means. Just because this is the first way they’re introducing ascended trinkets doesn’t mean it’ll be the only way.

The probelm is that all the equipment is being segregated through various play types. I am sorry, it should not take 1 month to acquire one piece of gear.

ThiBash.5634:

MrInfinit.1864:

It gives a noticeable advantage, on paper.

Sure, the 20% added critical damage from my earlier example doesn’t change anything at all compared to exotic. Nor does the free 16% magic find. Or the like 100 stats (where 100 power would roughly equal a 7% damage increase).

No, it won’t do anything at all.

100 power is closer to 4.8% damage increase.

Sardonia.8196:

VOLKON.1290:

Sardonia.8196:

I would just like to be able to obtain the gear on my terms and the timeframe that I set up. Nnot be forced to do stuff I really do not want to do. I wish they would just release all aspect to acquire this gear like exotics through crafting , karma, laurels etc. But have all the gear be available through everyone of those methods instead of some this way and some that way.
I would like to play the game the way I want to play it and acquire the gear the way I want to acquire it instead of being told that you can only get it this way.

Maybe you’ve missed the part where more and more ascended gear is becoming available by more and more means. Just because this is the first way they’re introducing ascended trinkets doesn’t mean it’ll be the only way.

The probelm is that all the equipment is being segregated through various play types. I am sorry, it should not take 1 month to acquire one piece of gear.

Yes… yes it should. That’s the whole point of ascended gear! Exotics are instant effectively. Legendary weapons take eons. Ascended gear is meant to fill the time gap between them giving players a sense of progression over time that many were missing due to insta-exotics. The stat increases are marginal but exist, the time gap allows for progression over time. You don’t need ascended to be competitive, but if you wish to pursue them there they are. Put in the time through various means and have at it.

I just don’t understand why the big diversity in getting them? On one hand, you have guild missions, which have a chance to drop as a regular reward or simply being able to farm them in one week by getting the points required.

Then on the other hand if you’re not in a big guild, you’re required to have 40 laurels which equals to roughly one month and ~10 days. But wait! That’s not all, you’ll need 50 ectos as well which equals atm to roughly ~17.5g

That’s just discouraging. Right now I’m in a decent big guild, but due to my work time, I play at different hours. So if I want to get the new tier stuff, I’m basically forced to be online when the ones with permission to start them up are in the mood / online.

The content itself looks awesome. But it feels like more than 90% of the population will be missing out on it and this was made only for the 10% of the population.

this is just laughable. What’s next? Ascended GS worth 100 Laurels, 250 ectos and 250 obi shards? Like wtf is wrong with these stupid decisions? I want to get items by playing the game and not wait 2 years doing boring * dailies!

VOLKON.1290:

100 power is closer to 4.8% damage increase.

Even so, as long as there are traits that add +5% damage boosts, that’s significant.

VOLKON.1290:

The stat increases are marginal but exist

As my earlier calculations have shown, the stat increase is far from marginal.

Nuka Cola.8520:

this is just laughable. What’s next? Ascended GS worth 100 Laurels, 250 ectos and 250 obi shards? Like wtf is wrong with these stupid decisions? I want to get items by playing the game and not wait 2 years doing boring * dailies!

I am guessing its “a stupid decisions” because you disagree with them well that all your saying in your post.

Nuka Cola.8520:

this is just laughable. What’s next? Ascended GS worth 100 Laurels, 250 ectos and 250 obi shards? Like wtf is wrong with these stupid decisions? I want to get items by playing the game and not wait 2 years doing boring * dailies!

100 laurels? keep dreaming, more like 364

ASB.4295:

Chuo.4238:

This kind of price for gear with the best stats is ridiculous. What happened to grinding for cosmetic items, but no grind for stats? I thought ArenaNet didn’t make grindy games?

BiS gear is optional, making it just as much an end game progression as skins and titles. If you want the privilege of equipping the best possible gear, you have to put your mind to it, not expect it to be handed to you after saving up for half a week.

Uh… what Chuo alluded to was a quote from ANET’s president that says exactly the opposite of what you just said. But thanks for your opinion.

ASB.4295:

There needs to be a way for the really dedicated players can differentiate themselves from those without the time or conviction grind out this slightly better gear set.

“Really dedicated” players earn fancy glowing gear, titles, and knowledge about the game and how to play. Within 5-10 minutes of pugging a dungeon, I already can tell who is “really dedicated” from those who are not. Plenty of distinction already… no need to make them hit 15% harder “just because.”

im hoping carrion.

Anet do you plan on having accessories only available through 40L 50E or there will be other ways?
For instance drops in Fractals, WvW vendors etc.

ASB.4295:

Mungrul.9358:

Gah, 50 ectos as well as 40 laurels?
Sure, no grind here.

The whole ascended set has to last people until at least Jan 2014, thanks to the overreaction of some fraction of the player base. That the ascended items are a lot grindier is basically their fault. Had they not complained so much, we could have had much quicker releases of gear at lower costs, and a completely new tier by summer. ANet did the best they could while staying true to their “no new gear tier in 2013” statement. :/

But most of us don’t WANT a whole new tier by summer, and if there was, then that too would be a grind.

I personally don’t find Ascended items to be a grind, and the reason for that is partially because they have introduced them so slowly (although I must admit that when/if I ever start trying to get ascended items on my alts I’ll start getting annoyed).

What I DO find to be a grind is a terrible system like WoW, where gear is just a coat of paint that gets swapped out for a new color every 6 months or so.

There are plenty of treadmill games. After playing MUDs and MMOs for 20 years, the gear treadmill is a horribly boring cliche.

So far, ascended gear doesn’t feel like a treadmill to me, but it also feels totally un necessary.

Sardonia.8196:

VOLKON.1290:

Sardonia.8196:

I would just like to be able to obtain the gear on my terms and the timeframe that I set up. Nnot be forced to do stuff I really do not want to do. I wish they would just release all aspect to acquire this gear like exotics through crafting , karma, laurels etc. But have all the gear be available through everyone of those methods instead of some this way and some that way.
I would like to play the game the way I want to play it and acquire the gear the way I want to acquire it instead of being told that you can only get it this way.

Maybe you’ve missed the part where more and more ascended gear is becoming available by more and more means. Just because this is the first way they’re introducing ascended trinkets doesn’t mean it’ll be the only way.

The probelm is that all the equipment is being segregated through various play types. I am sorry, it should not take 1 month to acquire one piece of gear.

No, no it shouldn’t, if that gear is a basic requirement. Right now, it’s not. The only thing you require Ascended for currently is Fractals and only if it’s got Agony Resistance.

It also shouldn’t take one month if you’re fighting with the Random Number God to get it. You’re not, you’re guaranteed to have it at the end of that work rather than “did it drop or was it another Green?”

Besides if you want to be technical, it’s not just one month. It’s one month plus the time to reach level 80 to wear it, PLUS any time which existed before the item was introduced. So for the Preserved Red Iris it’s taken . . . mmmm, six months to earn it. Even if you have the cost of it today, it’s taken you six months to earn it.

So are Anet with the same philosophy of no grind for better gear?

Looks not.

Now we cant farm anything in the game, we cant do dragons more than one time per day cant do temples more than 1 time per day whats next?? Only do cof 1time per day? Log in the game only for 3 hours? Seriously Anet.

Can you try to fix the game without “hurting” the players?

ThiBash.5634:

VOLKON.1290:

100 power is closer to 4.8% damage increase.

Even so, as long as there are traits that add +5% damage boosts, that’s significant.

VOLKON.1290:

The stat increases are marginal but exist

As my earlier calculations have shown, the stat increase is far from marginal.

What calculations? You threw out some random numbers comparing apples to grapes yet excluded any actual math behind it.

Ascended gear is the worst thing to happen to this game. I don’t know if I’ll have the will to keep playing when ascended armor comes out, not only requiring an assuredly unbelievable grind for one character, let alone all my characters, but also forcing me to buy dozens more fine transmutation stones. I already paid you for my max stat transmuted gear, Anet. Shove off.

I also hope nobody here ever wants alternate gear sets for different builds, because then it gets even worse. Stick with one build forever.

Also:
“Increased the stat bonuses on Ascended all-stat items.”

VOLKON.1290:

Bad math is bad. You can’t compare them to each other… you need to compare them as a whole. Your example adds 12 power.

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

So, plugging in numbers using the amulet on my mesmer as an example:

Before: 1100*1982*.5/1000 = 1090.1 (Assuming a coefficient of .5 and an armor of 1000 to simplify the math)
After: 1100*1994*.5/1000= 1096.7

(1096.7 – 1090.1)/ 1096.7 = .0060 or a single attack damage increase (not DPS) of approx. 0.60%.

Bad math is bad. You accounted for only one of 3 stats, ignoring the compounding effect of precision and critical damage boosts. An ascended amulet raises my beserker warrior’s effection power from 5231 to 5315, which is a 1.6% increase. Amulet, rings, backpack boost from 4937 to 5315… which is 7.6%.. and that is only 4 items! 10 items left to go, including the all important weapon (the only thing to affect weapon damage multiplier) and armor (free built-in toughness stat). At this rate an ascended berserker will chew through an exotic berserker by the time it all plays out.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Just wanted you guys to know that these are also available as guild mission rewards as well. You can get them as random rewards from completing missions or from the commendation vendor.

You mean those missions that were gated for only the biggest guilds out there?
So, the minor percentage of “elite” players will get them easy, and for the rest there is only the grind. Worse than the previous ascended eq.
What will be next, ascended weapons for 100 laurels and 250 ectos?
This is a “content” targeted for only a small minority of the players. Casuals are allowed to look, but do not touch.

You can now get your claims to “zero grind” and “low curve” and dropkick them out of the window. Preferably from the top floor of a skyscraper.

VOLKON.1290:

What calculations? You threw out some random numbers comparing apples to grapes yet excluded any actual math behind it.

See my earlier post in this thread at this link:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Holy-kitten-Cleric-Ascended-Accessory/page/2#post1514781

Can someone do me a favor? I have to leave now so I won’t be able to check the new ascended gear for like 6 hours, could someone like tell me (in this forum) if carrion ascended gear is now available? Thanks.

P.S I mean when the patch comes out.

Really dont like the idea how ascended is achieved. They are absolute opposite of what game was supposed to be. As WvW player we get 36 bronze for protecting something while everythin on tp goes up and up becoz money gained in dungoen vs wvw is 1 000 % bigger. This game has alot grinding in it. Daily quest is grinding and starts to feel very boring. Exotics one could achieve in pve / wvw quite easy (not too easy) just by playing the game. Ascended on the other hand…

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

These items are mainly earned through guild content, we included them on the laurels vendor to give players the opportunity to earn them if they are not in a guild but they are priced high to encourage players to try and accomplish them via the guild content.

So sucks to be in a small guild or choose not to be guilded, eh? Nice attitude Anet.

Laurels aren’t a very effective type of currency since you can really only get it one a day and 10 per monthly. If you have like 8 level 80s and you need laurel equipments, it would take FOREVER.

VOLKON.1290:

Yes, it’s clearly an ecto sink, but in response to an ecto spigot being added as well, that’s my point. This is a new source of ectos, there needs to be a drain or they’ll completely tank.

People are already claiming there’s been an ecto rate nerf. I’ve personally seen a drop as my average is now more like 1/2. That aside, they’re equating 50 ectos to 40 days. At the rate I’ve seen rares and exotics, not counting token exchange, that doesn’t add up. Add in token exchange and real farmers, and 50 ectos is no where near 40 days.

Ectos have too many uses to become so rare. Prices will rise. People will complain. Ascended items need another material, Exotics already have ectos.

When I see the Op picture, I must ask myself 1 single question..

How the holy moly kitten does that guy in that picture got already 75 LAURELS, when laurels just got introduced with the last updacte short before the begin of this month!!

I find this is some kind of hack/cheat, seriously I my math knowledge and brain need some tweaks to grasp this….

With only daily and monthly pve dailies giving laurels as rewars, monthly giving 10 laurels, this mathematically means, the maximum amount a player can receive in laurels per months is FIX between 38 and 41 laurels in regard of which month we have and if we have a leapyear or not …

SO laurels just started to count with february, we have just 26 days passed..so the maximum amount of laurels 1 person could have now is maximum 36.

So how the freaking hell did that guy get 75 laurels!! More than double as much laurels, as mathematically possible!!!
Could someone please clear me up???

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

These items are mainly earned through guild content, we included them on the laurels vendor to give players the opportunity to earn them if they are not in a guild but they are priced high to encourage players to try and accomplish them via the guild content.

Yeah, GREAT job on that. Nice how this new guild content favours bigger guilds, leaving smaller guilds out in the cold. Genius game design.
If you can’t tell, that’s sarcasm.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

These items are mainly earned through guild content, we included them on the laurels vendor to give players the opportunity to earn them if they are not in a guild but they are priced high to encourage players to try and accomplish them via the guild content.

Can you please just stop forcing us into specific playing styles already. TYVM.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

These items are mainly earned through guild content, we included them on the laurels vendor to give players the opportunity to earn them if they are not in a guild but they are priced high to encourage players to try and accomplish them via the guild content.

And in a small guild without alot of influence it takes up to 6 weeks, I fail to see how that encourages players to do one over the other…

There is no GOOD option for getting these new ascended items, just a bad option and a worse option…

On a diffrent note, when are you guys adding tokens we can only aquire once a year? I am sure theres alot of us that just can’t wait for those tokens.

Voxdeus.1034:

ASB.4295:

Mungrul.9358:

Gah, 50 ectos as well as 40 laurels?
Sure, no grind here.

The whole ascended set has to last people until at least Jan 2014, thanks to the overreaction of some fraction of the player base. That the ascended items are a lot grindier is basically their fault. Had they not complained so much, we could have had much quicker releases of gear at lower costs, and a completely new tier by summer. ANet did the best they could while staying true to their “no new gear tier in 2013” statement. :/

But most of us don’t WANT a whole new tier by summer, and if there was, then that too would be a grind.

Yes, we could have had a whole new gear tier by summer to obsolete all of our “cheaper” ascended gear. It would have been so glorious, I mean yeah you would throw it all away BUT it would have been cheaper! But wait a minute… ascended gear was designed to cost 250 T6 mats + 50 ectos (With stupid costs for +5 stat infusions) before people even knew about it, let alone complained about it.

Kraggy.4169:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

These items are mainly earned through guild content, we included them on the laurels vendor to give players the opportunity to earn them if they are not in a guild but they are priced high to encourage players to try and accomplish them via the guild content.

So sucks to be in a small guild or choose not to be guilded, eh? Nice attitude Anet.

I see that small guild has a gun to your head or is holding your family making it so you cant join other guilds? If not do you think humans have free will? Or are these small guild making you rep them at all times with no benefit? Please stop playing the victim here its getting old and nearly lost creditably.

Kraggy.4169:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

These items are mainly earned through guild content, we included them on the laurels vendor to give players the opportunity to earn them if they are not in a guild but they are priced high to encourage players to try and accomplish them via the guild content.

So sucks to be in a small guild or choose not to be guilded, eh? Nice attitude Anet.

You chose not to do the content, you can’t complain that you don’t get the content’s rewards.

@emperor:

oh man, your right.. the rage did let me miss the forest for the trees xD ^^

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

These items are mainly earned through guild content, we included them on the laurels vendor to give players the opportunity to earn them if they are not in a guild but they are priced high to encourage players to try and accomplish them via the guild content.

On one side I really appreciate the fact that you’ve atleast allowed multiple options to gather the gear.

On the other side at launch it was promised that people that would put a lot of time in items would only get better LOOKING items and not items that have better STATS.

There are a lot of people here that have come here from other mmorpg’s because this game doesn’t have the pressure those games had that forces you to farm items or do dailies in order to have equal stats as everyone else. You guys are completely going in the wrong direction by making us work very hard to unlock these items and even then we have it on only one character.

Guildwars 1 was my favorit game for a very long time because it allowed me to not feel pressured into farming gear but still gave me something fun to do ( gathering nice looks for armors or miniature pets for example and a lot more ).

So long story short:
Don’t go back on your word and keep the rewards for farming nice LOOKING gear instead of forcing everyone to pick one character to grind gear with better STATS on it.

Emperor.1360:

Rares drop all of the time if you have even a tiny percentage of Magic Find (just what an omnomberry bar gives). It’s pretty common to get around 5 rares an hour purely soloing.

Wow, I really SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY, want your account. I’m EXTREMELY lucky if I get 1 rare during an entire evenings playtime.. and that’s with running about +30% magic find. 5 rares in an hour is fairy tale land as far as I’m concerned.

Yep Anon, in same boat as you, almost feels as if some accounts are infact much luckier.. even doing fractals I am LUCKY if i get a single rare from a full run..

Also see a few people that just get rare after rare after exo, very noticeable when you play with the same people alot.

AnonEMouse.7932:

Emperor.1360:

Rares drop all of the time if you have even a tiny percentage of Magic Find (just what an omnomberry bar gives). It’s pretty common to get around 5 rares an hour purely soloing.

Wow, I really SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY, want your account. I’m EXTREMELY lucky if I get 1 rare during an entire evenings playtime.. and that’s with running about +30% magic find. 5 rares in an hour is fairy tale land as far as I’m concerned.

I found one method is to vary where you actually hunt now and then. If for the last couple days you’ve spent your hour/two hours in Cursed Shore maybe you move it over to Frostgorge or Fireheart Rise? Or Queensdale, or Diessa Plateau . . .

. . . what? It’s worked for me. The drops start getting stale, I move to another spot. Drops are no longer stale.

Seems like Anet has decided to go with the portion of the player base that wants newer and better items to constantly work for. Fair enough. I hope for Anet’s sake that that portion of the player base will continue to play the game because they will eventually lose those of us who bought the game with the idea that once you got the best gear, new gear would be more focused on looks and not stats.

Which is fine. Its Anet’s game and they can do with it what they want.

You must be very lucky…