“A soft answer turns away wrath,
but a harsh word stirs up anger.” -Jewish Proverb
but a harsh word stirs up anger.” -Jewish Proverb
What's wrong and how it can be fixed
Its just time to take a break, OP. Go play another game…a new one or an old favorite. You’ve already purchased GW2. It will still be here when you decide to come back.
PF/ GOAT on Tarnished Coast (Semi-Retired)
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon
Personally, I’m just entertaining myself while I’m out of game.
You know, it’s very illustrative of the situation when you have people who’d rather post on the forums than play the game.
Personally, I’m just entertaining myself while I’m out of game.
You know, it’s very illustrative of the situation when you have people who’d rather post on the forums than play the game.
Thing is, those people constitute a large percentage of forum regulars. A lot of the rest are people who can post — but can’t play — from their phones, or who want a break from the game. Many of my guild members who play regularly ask for advice about builds. If I tell them to look on the forums, it’s evident they never thought about looking here.
Discerning a trend from a forum population is straight out sampling error.
It seems to me you spend more time lurking on the Guild Wars 2 forums blindly defending ArenaNet and this game. Maybe you should apply for the community manager position?
Also, you don’t like playing for rewards and you have never had a negative experience in an ever-changing online game. I call bullkitten. I’m happy for you, but please stop trying to discredit other people’s opinions. People don’t like this game. They come on this forum, and they give the developers their complaints and their criticisms because they have had bad experiences.
You’re doing 0 to contribute to the discussion by telling others “how you play” and “how they should play the game”, especially when you “don’t play for rewards” and you “just play”. What the hell do you even do? Also, many players don’t have the time to start a social network or become part of one. Who cares if you play with guildies? The point is, no one cares how you play. We’re talking about mechanics and design flaws of Guild Wars 2 as a whole that affects the way everyone plays.
You do zero to contribute to the conversation when you lie. I’ve spoken up negatively about things. I’ve agreed wieh some people’s concerns. If you aren’t conscientious enough to research your inaccuracies, why should anyone listen to you about anything?
Have a nice day.
Inb4 vayne and the rest of the usual folk. Good post and I agree.
In after Gasoline QQing about Vayne.
As for OP, not sure what I can tell you. Maybe the next MMO will be able to keep that glow after all the paths of least resistance have been discovered, I’m not entirely sold on that possibility.
In b4 Uruz jumps on the Vayne bandwagon and helps keep the clear objectivity at bay with blind fandom.
It’s the same person or his brother or something. just ignore them, they are a pair made in heaven for each other. Nothing good can come from talking to people who blindly hate others ideas and put down other people every chance they get. This forum is much more enjoyable if you just post your feelings and ignore people like this.
Calling them out just stokes the trollish fires, so to speak.
It’s true I should follow your advise and I will from now on. It’s not worth my time.
They made a major step forward with the dusts this week, that was nice! I also got a post from Colin stating that they are working on other rewards systems and that lodestones will have a solution as well. I’m happy they are working on these things I really am, it’s been a long time of trying to get people over there to see the issues.
I just wish NCsoft would give these people more funds from their own profits to make major bug fixing in the classes a priority. Hire some contractors, and to get some temp people in there to help with permanent additions to content now.
It’s not that I’m not satisfied it’s that I care about what this game becomes as much as the devs do if they don’t work with their players players will leave it’s really that simple in this market. That’s never a good thing. But they are working with us, this patch looks like they are moving in the right direction.
Rift just went F2P and it has puzzles, housing, fishing (with props and the ability to fish up resources), massive invasions of zones in PVE, solo dungeons, raids, post max level advancement, outfits, dual spec, scratchoff mobile app lotteries that give resources and end game currencies….the list is long.
I just worry that by the time these guys make the changes it might be too late.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
(edited by tigirius.9014)
Inb4 vayne and the rest of the usual folk. Good post and I agree.
In after Gasoline QQing about Vayne.
As for OP, not sure what I can tell you. Maybe the next MMO will be able to keep that glow after all the paths of least resistance have been discovered, I’m not entirely sold on that possibility.
In b4 Uruz jumps on the Vayne bandwagon and helps keep the clear objectivity at bay with blind fandom.
It’s the same person or his brother or something. just ignore them, they are a pair made in heaven for each other. Nothing good can come from talking to people who blindly hate others ideas and put down other people every chance they get. This forum is much more enjoyable if you just post your feelings and ignore people like this.
Calling them out just stokes the trollish fires, so to speak.
It’s true I should follow your advise and I will from now on. It’s not worth my time.
They made a major step forward with the dusts this week, that was nice! I also got a post from Colin stating that they are working on other rewards systems and that lodestones will have a solution as well. I’m happy they are working on these things I really am, it’s been a long time of trying to get people over there to see the issues.
I just wish NCsoft would give these people more funds from their own profits to make major bug fixing in the classes a priority. Hire some contractors, and to get some temp people in there to help with permanent additions to content now.
It’s not that I’m not satisfied it’s that I care about what this game becomes as much as the devs do if they don’t work with their players players will leave it’s really that simple in this market. That’s never a good thing. But they are working with us, this patch looks like they are moving in the right direction.
Rift just went F2P and it has puzzles, housing, fishing (with props and the ability to fish up resources), massive invasions of zones in PVE, solo dungeons, raids, post max level advancement, outfits, dual spec, scratchoff mobile app lotteries that give resources and end game currencies….the list is long.
I just worry that by the time these guys make the changes it might be too late.
Rift had a couple of years to get to together. During the first year, it shed subscriptions quite fast. Now that it’s free to play, it’ll probably do somewhat better, but my point is, it took them a long time to really get it together. In another year, this game will have it together as much as Rift at this point in time.
However Rift was still a game much focused on raiding when I was there and the dailies were really bad. The game got even more grindy with the release of the expansion. People think Guild Wars 2 is grindy…I’m not so sure how they’ll cope with Rift.
Personally, I’m just entertaining myself while I’m out of game.
You know, it’s very illustrative of the situation when you have people who’d rather post on the forums than play the game.
I’m not sure how it works where you live, but my employer tends to frown upon people playing MMOs from work.
Skoryy, sylvari thief: “Act now, figure out ‘with wisdom’ later.”
Nanuchka, norn mesmer: “BOOZEAHOL!”
Tarnished Coast – Still Here, El Guapo!
Nanuchka, norn mesmer: “BOOZEAHOL!”
Tarnished Coast – Still Here, El Guapo!
I just realised this the other day also. Its rather sad, because i dont really have any new games to go onto with ( till eso ) anyways.
I just did my world explorer, got DM title, ran fractions over and over, killed all bossed, done all jumping puzzles……Now i can save for a legendary, but to what end?
I sit here and think when i finally do get my legend, what then? This thought right here kinda broke the whole game for me.
What i PERSONALLY <——imho…..need are more challenging dungeons / raids, something we can progress on and something not everyone can do or pug. Its the only thing to strive for in mmos.
Lets be serious, everyone can aquire the same armour and weapons as the person next to them, sometimes with little effort. We need content that requires thought and challenge to aquire gear that isnt so easily avaliable. You have to be prepared to dedicate saome time and have some skill to get better items.
Ofcoarse this is just a pipedream, as the amount of times ppl fail at cof P1 speaks volumes about the player base.
ALl in all, gw2 is a casual game desinged for casuals, and this right here is the problem for ppl like me. Its taken me a year to see it, but i can see it clearly now.
it might also be a personality thing…a few of my guildies have burnt out on gw2 and rarely play…for me i’ve got a lvl 80 toon and lvl 50 toon and lvl 7 toon, i set a goal for myself to make a legendary weapon for my lvl 80 (had the game for a few months), and i find some of the grinds very relaxing. I can get off work and farm some materials and the daily if i want, if i’m not in the mood, no sub so no worries…but gw2 is currently the only game i’m playing simply because i set that personal goal for myself and i’m going all in to achieve it.
Wu Táng Financial [Táng] – YB
One of the major points in the Guild Wars 2 manifesto is that this is a game that you can play how you want.
No it was not.
When was the last time you watched that video? A year ago? Because I just watched it and at no point was the phrase “you can play how you want to play” ever uttered. Nor anything similar. The whole video was about fun content, not methods of play nor rewards. It spoke of grind, but Colin said, and I quote “the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff” did you catch that? “To get to the fun stuff.” It wasn’t talking about grinding for mats or rewards, it was talking about grinding to unlock content.
I think everyone who has been bringing up that video of late needs to take six minutes to actually watch the kitten ed thing.
That video makes me sad. Watching that video and remembering how epic this game was at release. What the hell are these guys doing now?
Mostly temp content, nerfs, 8bit puzzles, purple hairdos, bee dogs with digital booty holes, fuzzy bear hats, cute animal backpacks, holographic dragon wings, RNG events designed to milk people. You make something epic like that and have a clown party all over it.
(edited by Araziel.7201)
Stop thinking of GW2 like other MMO’s. You don’t feel like doing your daily? Then don’t.
You have to grind dailies, it’s the only way to get ascended gear… noone likes being weaker than everyone else, get real.
You can’t grind dailies. You can do them, but you can’t grind them…because they’re time limited.
The definition of grind is to do the same thing over and over again usually go get experience for leveling. But since daily CAN be done in 20 minutes, and since missing a day only sets you back a day…you really can’t grind them. In other words, as long as it takes you to do the five easiest dailies, that’s the longest you can “grind” for.
If you mean the game encourages people to do dailies daily…well, yeah, that’s sort of the point of them. It’s why they were made so easy.
If dailies are your idea of grind, there’s probably nothing more to say on the matter.
Grind to me is anything you don’t really want to do but are compelled to do due to game design/mechanics. For those of us with limited daily playtime, we’re compelled to grind the daily if we ever hope to keep us with the joneses wrt ascended gear, because (IMO stupidly) progress towards a daily expires daily instead of accumulating until complete.
BTW, most dailies don’t take 20min, a more realistic average would be 45min.
downed state is bad for PVP
(edited by scerevisiae.1972)
100% agree with the OP. The game has not progressed into a relaxed gaming environment. It’s just become a ‘second job.’
I REALLY hope Anet/NCsoft get their acts together, because Neverwinter is looking pretty good right now.
I also agree with the OP, yes guildwars 2 could have been great, it’s not, yes it has some nice innovations, but i’m not after a second job that does not pay me…
I also am in Neverwinter and the populations there are huge, it does feel very much like Tera tho, not a bad game just prefer The Secret World Story and combat over it..
Sadly Guildwars 2 has lost the plot of its manifesto (Everything in that Video was a pack of lies, bar Art design) and its predecessor, both of which is why i bought Guildwars 2..
(edited by Dante.1508)
Stop thinking of GW2 like other MMO’s. You don’t feel like doing your daily? Then don’t.
You have to grind dailies, it’s the only way to get ascended gear… noone likes being weaker than everyone else, get real.
You can’t grind dailies. You can do them, but you can’t grind them…because they’re time limited.
The definition of grind is to do the same thing over and over again usually go get experience for leveling. But since daily CAN be done in 20 minutes, and since missing a day only sets you back a day…you really can’t grind them. In other words, as long as it takes you to do the five easiest dailies, that’s the longest you can “grind” for.
If you mean the game encourages people to do dailies daily…well, yeah, that’s sort of the point of them. It’s why they were made so easy.
If dailies are your idea of grind, there’s probably nothing more to say on the matter.
Grind to me is anything you don’t really want to do but are compelled to do due to game design/mechanics. For those of us with limited daily playtime, we’re compelled to grind the daily if we ever hope to keep us with the joneses wrt ascended gear, because (IMO stupidly) process towards a daily expires daily instead of accumulating until complete.
BTW, most dailies don’t take 20min, a more realistic average would be 45min.
If it takes you 45 minutes to do 5 dailies (all you need for a laurel), you’re doing them wrong. Come and hang out with me. I’ll show you how to do dailies in less than half an hour.
Stop thinking of GW2 like other MMO’s. You don’t feel like doing your daily? Then don’t.
You have to grind dailies, it’s the only way to get ascended gear… noone likes being weaker than everyone else, get real.
You can’t grind dailies. You can do them, but you can’t grind them…because they’re time limited.
The definition of grind is to do the same thing over and over again usually go get experience for leveling. But since daily CAN be done in 20 minutes, and since missing a day only sets you back a day…you really can’t grind them. In other words, as long as it takes you to do the five easiest dailies, that’s the longest you can “grind” for.
If you mean the game encourages people to do dailies daily…well, yeah, that’s sort of the point of them. It’s why they were made so easy.
If dailies are your idea of grind, there’s probably nothing more to say on the matter.
Grind to me is anything you don’t really want to do but are compelled to do due to game design/mechanics. For those of us with limited daily playtime, we’re compelled to grind the daily if we ever hope to keep us with the joneses wrt ascended gear, because (IMO stupidly) process towards a daily expires daily instead of accumulating until complete.
BTW, most dailies don’t take 20min, a more realistic average would be 45min.
If it takes you 45 minutes to do 5 dailies (all you need for a laurel), you’re doing them wrong. Come and hang out with me. I’ll show you how to do dailies in less than half an hour.
Depends on the daily, some can be done in one minute other can take 2-3 hours, to me the grind is doing them daily, repetitively every day to get content, which is not how Guildwars 2 was sold to us…
Stop thinking of GW2 like other MMO’s. You don’t feel like doing your daily? Then don’t.
You have to grind dailies, it’s the only way to get ascended gear… noone likes being weaker than everyone else, get real.
You can’t grind dailies. You can do them, but you can’t grind them…because they’re time limited.
The definition of grind is to do the same thing over and over again usually go get experience for leveling. But since daily CAN be done in 20 minutes, and since missing a day only sets you back a day…you really can’t grind them. In other words, as long as it takes you to do the five easiest dailies, that’s the longest you can “grind” for.
If you mean the game encourages people to do dailies daily…well, yeah, that’s sort of the point of them. It’s why they were made so easy.
If dailies are your idea of grind, there’s probably nothing more to say on the matter.
Grind to me is anything you don’t really want to do but are compelled to do due to game design/mechanics. For those of us with limited daily playtime, we’re compelled to grind the daily if we ever hope to keep us with the joneses wrt ascended gear, because (IMO stupidly) process towards a daily expires daily instead of accumulating until complete.
BTW, most dailies don’t take 20min, a more realistic average would be 45min.
If it takes you 45 minutes to do 5 dailies (all you need for a laurel), you’re doing them wrong. Come and hang out with me. I’ll show you how to do dailies in less than half an hour.
Depends on the daily, some can be done in one minute other can take 2-3 hours, to me the grind is doing them daily, repetitively every day to get content, which is not how Guildwars 2 was sold to us…
Most of the dailies can be done in the course of anything else I’m doing. For example, one daily every single day is gathering. If you’re playing a half an hour anywhere but a dungeon or SPvP (which has it’s own daily), you will get all the gathering done. For that matter, if you SPvP and play 3 rounds you’re likely to get your laurel in under half an hour, which is easy enough for even me to do.
So you get your gathering, even in WvW. There are three other WvW ones, and if you insist on staying in WvW, you’ll have to do those. But many of them are either killer or events. Killing 50 things anywhere is quite easy.
Things like ambient slayer or events can be done quite fast if you know where to go. You can even get the events just jumping around following the metas if you want. So there are a number of ways to go about it.
There are some days where it’s crafting. That takes literally 20 seconds…when added to gathering, on those days, it’s nothing.
There are days when you have to visit a laurel vendor. That’s it. Just visit.
There are days you have to do a jumping puzzle. Most of the time you can even have a mesmer portal you up in LA to get that one. If not there’s one jumping puzzle in LA that takes literally 2 minutes.
Jumping puzzle discovering is even easier, because you don’t have to do them. There three jumping puzzles to discover in LA. Total time? About 4 minutes to get to them all.
Seriously, there’s no reason you can’t do 5 dailies in well under half an hour and if you leave them to the end of your play period, much of the time you’ll have most of them done, just by normal playing, and then you can just finish off the ones you don’t have in a few minutes.
It’s only painful if you don’t know where to go or how to do them.
Stop thinking of GW2 like other MMO’s. You don’t feel like doing your daily? Then don’t.
You have to grind dailies, it’s the only way to get ascended gear… noone likes being weaker than everyone else, get real.
You can’t grind dailies. You can do them, but you can’t grind them…because they’re time limited.
The definition of grind is to do the same thing over and over again usually go get experience for leveling. But since daily CAN be done in 20 minutes, and since missing a day only sets you back a day…you really can’t grind them. In other words, as long as it takes you to do the five easiest dailies, that’s the longest you can “grind” for.
If you mean the game encourages people to do dailies daily…well, yeah, that’s sort of the point of them. It’s why they were made so easy.
If dailies are your idea of grind, there’s probably nothing more to say on the matter.
Grind to me is anything you don’t really want to do but are compelled to do due to game design/mechanics. For those of us with limited daily playtime, we’re compelled to grind the daily if we ever hope to keep us with the joneses wrt ascended gear, because (IMO stupidly) process towards a daily expires daily instead of accumulating until complete.
BTW, most dailies don’t take 20min, a more realistic average would be 45min.
If it takes you 45 minutes to do 5 dailies (all you need for a laurel), you’re doing them wrong. Come and hang out with me. I’ll show you how to do dailies in less than half an hour.
Depends on the daily, some can be done in one minute other can take 2-3 hours, to me the grind is doing them daily, repetitively every day to get content, which is not how Guildwars 2 was sold to us…
Most of the dailies can be done in the course of anything else I’m doing. For example, one daily every single day is gathering. If you’re playing a half an hour anywhere but a dungeon or SPvP (which has it’s own daily), you will get all the gathering done. For that matter, if you SPvP and play 3 rounds you’re likely to get your laurel in under half an hour, which is easy enough for even me to do.
So you get your gathering, even in WvW. There are three other WvW ones, and if you insist on staying in WvW, you’ll have to do those. But many of them are either killer or events. Killing 50 things anywhere is quite easy.
Things like ambient slayer or events can be done quite fast if you know where to go. You can even get the events just jumping around following the metas if you want. So there are a number of ways to go about it.
There are some days where it’s crafting. That takes literally 20 seconds…when added to gathering, on those days, it’s nothing.
There are days when you have to visit a laurel vendor. That’s it. Just visit.
There are days you have to do a jumping puzzle. Most of the time you can even have a mesmer portal you up in LA to get that one. If not there’s one jumping puzzle in LA that takes literally 2 minutes.
Jumping puzzle discovering is even easier, because you don’t have to do them. There three jumping puzzles to discover in LA. Total time? About 4 minutes to get to them all.
Seriously, there’s no reason you can’t do 5 dailies in well under half an hour and if you leave them to the end of your play period, much of the time you’ll have most of them done, just by normal playing, and then you can just finish off the ones you don’t have in a few minutes.
It’s only painful if you don’t know where to go or how to do them.
I don’t spvp ever, i don’t WvW anymore, and depending on the player Jump puzzles can be a nightmare, taking hours…
Crafting, laurels vendor and karma are not every day.
So its underwater, mob kills/grey crap mobs, shiverpeaks, maguuma or Ascalon events etc..
@ Dante
Right…you only need to find ONE jumping puzzle you can do Just one. Demongrub pits , or the one behind the waterfall in LA are relatively easy to learn. There are mesmers who portal people to those places, at last on my server, almost all day every day. I’m almost never in LA for any length of time without a portal being offered by someone….and you know what? You only need to portal to the end to finish it.
Jumping puzzle discover does NOT require you to do jumping puzzles. It only requires you to know where they are and walk to the entrance. You don’t have to start them. As I said, four minutes.
That leaves mostly slayers and event completers. Slayer is easy. Walk into a starting zone, which you can get to for free from LA through the gates, and kill the first 50 things you walk into. Aquatic slayer? Assuming you’re not in a zone already doing that, there are many areas where you can take your high level character and kill the stuff in the water. The skelk in Wayfarer foothills, you can get aquatic slayer in less than five minutes. We’ve already discussed gathering.
And there are places where the events come so fast and furious, you can do them in no time at all, usually in starter zones, so they’re fast.
If you have kill variety, you can go to the thermonuclear reactor in Metrica Province, and get your daily rezzes too if you don’t have them already.
Seriously if you know where to go and you do it efficiently (which I almost never do btw), there’s no reason to take half an hour for your daily.
I’m going to start timing them from today and post my results.
Stop thinking of GW2 like other MMO’s. You don’t feel like doing your daily? Then don’t.
You have to grind dailies, it’s the only way to get ascended gear… noone likes being weaker than everyone else, get real.
You can’t grind dailies. You can do them, but you can’t grind them…because they’re time limited.
The definition of grind is to do the same thing over and over again usually go get experience for leveling. But since daily CAN be done in 20 minutes, and since missing a day only sets you back a day…you really can’t grind them. In other words, as long as it takes you to do the five easiest dailies, that’s the longest you can “grind” for.
If you mean the game encourages people to do dailies daily…well, yeah, that’s sort of the point of them. It’s why they were made so easy.
If dailies are your idea of grind, there’s probably nothing more to say on the matter.
Grind to me is anything you don’t really want to do but are compelled to do due to game design/mechanics. For those of us with limited daily playtime, we’re compelled to grind the daily if we ever hope to keep us with the joneses wrt ascended gear, because (IMO stupidly) process towards a daily expires daily instead of accumulating until complete.
BTW, most dailies don’t take 20min, a more realistic average would be 45min.
If it takes you 45 minutes to do 5 dailies (all you need for a laurel), you’re doing them wrong. Come and hang out with me. I’ll show you how to do dailies in less than half an hour.
Cough Uhm…excuse me. Are you telling people how to do stuff in a shorter time…like with a guide or something? You know….like you were telling people not to do with the Southsun content? Because it trivializes the game…. and you wish people wouldn’t do it….and that these type of people are bad for the game?
Yeah…I didn’t think you were doing that.
Stop thinking of GW2 like other MMO’s. You don’t feel like doing your daily? Then don’t.
You have to grind dailies, it’s the only way to get ascended gear… noone likes being weaker than everyone else, get real.
You can’t grind dailies. You can do them, but you can’t grind them…because they’re time limited.
The definition of grind is to do the same thing over and over again usually go get experience for leveling. But since daily CAN be done in 20 minutes, and since missing a day only sets you back a day…you really can’t grind them. In other words, as long as it takes you to do the five easiest dailies, that’s the longest you can “grind” for.
If you mean the game encourages people to do dailies daily…well, yeah, that’s sort of the point of them. It’s why they were made so easy.
If dailies are your idea of grind, there’s probably nothing more to say on the matter.
Grind to me is anything you don’t really want to do but are compelled to do due to game design/mechanics. For those of us with limited daily playtime, we’re compelled to grind the daily if we ever hope to keep us with the joneses wrt ascended gear, because (IMO stupidly) process towards a daily expires daily instead of accumulating until complete.
BTW, most dailies don’t take 20min, a more realistic average would be 45min.
If it takes you 45 minutes to do 5 dailies (all you need for a laurel), you’re doing them wrong. Come and hang out with me. I’ll show you how to do dailies in less than half an hour.
Cough Uhm…excuse me. Are you telling people how to do stuff in a shorter time…like with a guide or something? You know….like you were telling people not to do with the Southsun content? Because it trivializes the game…. and you wish people wouldn’t do it….and that these type of people are bad for the game?
Yeah…I didn’t think you were doing that.
I’m telling people there are faster ways to do things IF they find it slow. I’ve also said I don’t do them that way, because I just play the game and finish off what’s left at the end so I don’t have to.
See, people have accused me, over and over again, of only saying how I do things and not caring about how people want to do things differently. So I come out and offer help to someone who wants to do something different, not because I do it that way, but because I’m a helpful bloke and what do I get? Snide comments from the peanut gallery.
You can spin this any way you want, but if you do it my way, it’s not a grind because most of it is done incidentally as part of my daily play. If you do it the other way, it’s not a grind because it can be done so quickly.
Your move, Casperov.
Stop thinking of GW2 like other MMO’s. You don’t feel like doing your daily? Then don’t.
You have to grind dailies, it’s the only way to get ascended gear… noone likes being weaker than everyone else, get real.
You can’t grind dailies. You can do them, but you can’t grind them…because they’re time limited.
The definition of grind is to do the same thing over and over again usually go get experience for leveling. But since daily CAN be done in 20 minutes, and since missing a day only sets you back a day…you really can’t grind them. In other words, as long as it takes you to do the five easiest dailies, that’s the longest you can “grind” for.
If you mean the game encourages people to do dailies daily…well, yeah, that’s sort of the point of them. It’s why they were made so easy.
If dailies are your idea of grind, there’s probably nothing more to say on the matter.
Grind to me is anything you don’t really want to do but are compelled to do due to game design/mechanics. For those of us with limited daily playtime, we’re compelled to grind the daily if we ever hope to keep us with the joneses wrt ascended gear, because (IMO stupidly) process towards a daily expires daily instead of accumulating until complete.
BTW, most dailies don’t take 20min, a more realistic average would be 45min.
If it takes you 45 minutes to do 5 dailies (all you need for a laurel), you’re doing them wrong. Come and hang out with me. I’ll show you how to do dailies in less than half an hour.
Cough Uhm…excuse me. Are you telling people how to do stuff in a shorter time…like with a guide or something? You know….like you were telling people not to do with the Southsun content? Because it trivializes the game…. and you wish people wouldn’t do it….and that these type of people are bad for the game?
Yeah…I didn’t think you were doing that.
I’m telling people there are faster ways to do things IF they find it slow. I’ve also said I don’t do them that way, because I just play the game and finish off what’s left at the end so I don’t have to.
See, people have accused me, over and over again, of only saying how I do things and not caring about how people want to do things differently. So I come out and offer help to someone who wants to do something different, not because I do it that way, but because I’m a helpful bloke and what do I get? Snide comments from the peanut gallery.
You can spin this any way you want, but if you do it my way, it’s not a grind because most of it is done incidentally as part of my daily play. If you do it the other way, it’s not a grind because it can be done so quickly.
Your move, Casperov.
Ewww, I can be Kasparov? Cool deal.
Grind is subjective, people can find anything to be a grind, while others view the same activity favorably. The daily could be to log in for 10 minutes a day and it would be a grind for someone, and they wouldn’t be wrong. Onerous activities just break down to what kind of player you are and what you enjoy doing.
Debating grind is like debating what people see in clouds. Some see dragons, others see hammers. Neither are wrong.
Stop thinking of GW2 like other MMO’s. You don’t feel like doing your daily? Then don’t.
You have to grind dailies, it’s the only way to get ascended gear… noone likes being weaker than everyone else, get real.
You can’t grind dailies. You can do them, but you can’t grind them…because they’re time limited.
The definition of grind is to do the same thing over and over again usually go get experience for leveling. But since daily CAN be done in 20 minutes, and since missing a day only sets you back a day…you really can’t grind them. In other words, as long as it takes you to do the five easiest dailies, that’s the longest you can “grind” for.
If you mean the game encourages people to do dailies daily…well, yeah, that’s sort of the point of them. It’s why they were made so easy.
If dailies are your idea of grind, there’s probably nothing more to say on the matter.
Grind to me is anything you don’t really want to do but are compelled to do due to game design/mechanics. For those of us with limited daily playtime, we’re compelled to grind the daily if we ever hope to keep us with the joneses wrt ascended gear, because (IMO stupidly) process towards a daily expires daily instead of accumulating until complete.
BTW, most dailies don’t take 20min, a more realistic average would be 45min.
If it takes you 45 minutes to do 5 dailies (all you need for a laurel), you’re doing them wrong. Come and hang out with me. I’ll show you how to do dailies in less than half an hour.
Cough Uhm…excuse me. Are you telling people how to do stuff in a shorter time…like with a guide or something? You know….like you were telling people not to do with the Southsun content? Because it trivializes the game…. and you wish people wouldn’t do it….and that these type of people are bad for the game?
Yeah…I didn’t think you were doing that.
I’m telling people there are faster ways to do things IF they find it slow. I’ve also said I don’t do them that way, because I just play the game and finish off what’s left at the end so I don’t have to.
See, people have accused me, over and over again, of only saying how I do things and not caring about how people want to do things differently. So I come out and offer help to someone who wants to do something different, not because I do it that way, but because I’m a helpful bloke and what do I get? Snide comments from the peanut gallery.
You can spin this any way you want, but if you do it my way, it’s not a grind because most of it is done incidentally as part of my daily play. If you do it the other way, it’s not a grind because it can be done so quickly.
Your move, Casperov.
Ewww, I can be Kasparov? Cool deal.
Grind is subjective, people can find anything to be a grind, while others view the same activity favorably. The daily could be to log in for 10 minutes a day and it would be a grind for someone, and they wouldn’t be wrong. Onerous activities just break down to what kind of player you are and what you enjoy doing.
Debating grind is like debating what people see in clouds. Some see dragons, others see hammers. Neither are wrong.
Depends on how you define grind and if you’re going with the original definition of it. Because as it’s defined a lot of people use the word grinding for farming, not quite the same thing. Grinding had a defintion. The further we get from that, the more muddied the waters.
And sure, anyone can call anything grind….which makes it a useless word. These forums are a grind sometimes. Shrugs.
I’m going to start timing them from today and post my results.
please do, esp if you could note the specific achievement and location done. I agree some days’ dailies are quicker but on average, i’d say 45min. It’s not at all fun for me to “just” do the daily achievements, i’d rather have them done as part of something i want to do, eg: WVW achievements. These can take > 45mins, depending on WVW state.
downed state is bad for PVP
I’m going to start timing them from today and post my results.
please do, esp if you could note the specific achievement and location done. I agree some days’ dailies are quicker but on average, i’d say 45min. It’s not at all fun for me to “just” do the daily achievements, i’d rather have them done as part of something i want to do, eg: WVW achievements. These can take > 45mins, depending on WVW state.
I started today, here’s a link to my thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-To-Do-Dailies/first#post2205581
Just as a sidenote. Am I really the only one who enjoyed the southsun-storyline? I mean no it wasn’t exactely a masterpiece of sublime storytelling, but I liked the atmosphere (“like” beeing the wrong word maybe^^) and I found it immersive and pretty intense.
I liked it, and didn’t even do crab toss or Canach. The other achievements were pretty fun. Something different, doesn’t always have to be killing stuff.
If I can’t play Guild Wars 2 at work, I won’t work in Guild Wars 2 either.
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
GW2 has been out for a while, and I am becoming increasingly ambivalent about it.
Whats changed? Why have my attitudes towards the game i was once so enthusiastic about altered? Well, I’ve been thinking about it, and I’ve come to the following conclusions.
Anets policy towards RNG and grind. From lock boxes to precursors, to mystic clovers to weapon skin tickets, the amount of RNG in the game is very high, and for the important stuff players want like legendaries. Now, I’m not against RNG, or against work for rewards, but the degree that RNG permeates the game, and the very low return rates just cause frustration. Weapon skin tickets for instance have insanely low drop rates, not just from drops, but also from paid for lockboxes, and yet weapon skins are something nearly all players really want. It just seams that anet are designing the loot and reward systems around forcing people to use the gem store, and even then not rewarding them with goods but more RNG with very low returns.
Shear amount of bugs. The game has incredible eye candy, but its hardly a polished game experience, the game is riddled with bugs, exploits, and systems that just don’t work. I can put up with this for a while, but nothing is being done about them it seams with bugs known about in beta still persisting. World bosses are empty loot pinatas, many events bug out, the TP is subject to lag which causes unintended buy orders. Its also annoyed me on how anet have gone away from their manifesto. They wanted to make players happy to see each other and were doing well, then they put in the holograms…which almost seam designed to frustrate players, and its an obvious outcome, one I am surprised anet did not realise.
Lack of vision. The living story is just too small. The world is supposed to be on the verge of destruction, the 5 races fighting for survival. Instead its all very prosaic, we get a story about a kitten resort. And the world does not feel under threat, waves of undead do not march across queensdale, icebrood do not swarm out of the shiverpeaks, destroyers do not erupt in waves of fiery destruction which threatens rata sum and the grove. i just don’t feel like anything we do matters, there is no epic vision driving this game, there is nothing that makes me feel like my character, or even the playerbase as a whole, is making a difference.
Encounters are boring. From the shadow behemoth, to the mega destroyer, from the shatterer to the jungle worm, this game has eye candy in spades. Unfortunately the encounters are boring, easy, and usually over in seconds. There are no epic boss fights. Jormag is the best, but even that is just zerged, and nearly impossible to fail.
And who cares if you did fail? What happens if the shatterer is not driven off? Nothing. What happens if the frozen maw is not defeated? Nothing. What happens if the shadow behemoth is not defeated? Does he rampage through queensdale spawning a tide of beasts from the underworld? Um no.
The game has so much potential. But it needs a bigger bolder vision driving it forward, it needs more attention to quality control and bug fixes. It needs mechanics being made to work, from open world bosses not being pathetic encounters to making dungeons work and not just being speed run farmfests. I’d love to see how many cof runs have taken place compared to other dungeons….
Maybe I expect too much. But looking back at the vision showed in the manifesto, and then thinking about the game as it stands now, i cant help asking what happened? Where did the drive and ambition go? How have we descended from aspiring to challenge the elder dragons, to now being effectively mercenaries committing genocide over a beach resort?
I feel like I’ve been promised a new Ferrari, and then I’m actually given one, only to find out its got no petrol, the tires are flat, the battery is dead, and no one can quite remember where the keys are.
Amen…………
Guild Leader of Oakvale [Vale]
http://oakvale.enjin.com
http://oakvale.enjin.com
This brought me to tears.
Guild Leader of Oakvale [Vale]
http://oakvale.enjin.com
http://oakvale.enjin.com
Great post, I’m sure a lot of people feel exactly like you.
ArenaNet needs to take a look at their own manifesto, and then find the passion they had when they were about to release the game. Because to be honest, I don’t feel it any longer.
Lysis Kawahara – D/D Elementalist
Zaphiel Faires – DPS Guardian
Zaphiel Faires – DPS Guardian
The world doesn’t feel under threat, because the world is quite large. The dragons that are threatening now that Zhaitan is gone aren’t actually threatening Lion’s Arch. It’s a big world. Jormag is threatening the norn areas, Kralkatorrik the charr areas, and we still haven’t seen much of primordus.
Just because we have events in the area where we beat Zhaitan doesn’t mean the world is safe…but Kryta at least has had a reprieve.
Thank you very much! Someone who gets it! The cheese heads who rig the game! The last little one I got wind of was people bugging the moa’s in moa racing.
GW2 has been out for a while, and I am becoming increasingly ambivalent about it.
Whats changed? Why have my attitudes towards the game i was once so enthusiastic about altered? Well, I’ve been thinking about it, and I’ve come to the following conclusions.
Anets policy towards RNG and grind. From lock boxes to precursors, to mystic clovers to weapon skin tickets, the amount of RNG in the game is very high, and for the important stuff players want like legendaries. Now, I’m not against RNG, or against work for rewards, but the degree that RNG permeates the game, and the very low return rates just cause frustration. Weapon skin tickets for instance have insanely low drop rates, not just from drops, but also from paid for lockboxes, and yet weapon skins are something nearly all players really want. It just seams that anet are designing the loot and reward systems around forcing people to use the gem store, and even then not rewarding them with goods but more RNG with very low returns.
Shear amount of bugs. The game has incredible eye candy, but its hardly a polished game experience, the game is riddled with bugs, exploits, and systems that just don’t work. I can put up with this for a while, but nothing is being done about them it seams with bugs known about in beta still persisting. World bosses are empty loot pinatas, many events bug out, the TP is subject to lag which causes unintended buy orders. Its also annoyed me on how anet have gone away from their manifesto. They wanted to make players happy to see each other and were doing well, then they put in the holograms…which almost seam designed to frustrate players, and its an obvious outcome, one I am surprised anet did not realise.
Lack of vision. The living story is just too small. The world is supposed to be on the verge of destruction, the 5 races fighting for survival. Instead its all very prosaic, we get a story about a kitten resort. And the world does not feel under threat, waves of undead do not march across queensdale, icebrood do not swarm out of the shiverpeaks, destroyers do not erupt in waves of fiery destruction which threatens rata sum and the grove. i just don’t feel like anything we do matters, there is no epic vision driving this game, there is nothing that makes me feel like my character, or even the playerbase as a whole, is making a difference.
Encounters are boring. From the shadow behemoth, to the mega destroyer, from the shatterer to the jungle worm, this game has eye candy in spades. Unfortunately the encounters are boring, easy, and usually over in seconds. There are no epic boss fights. Jormag is the best, but even that is just zerged, and nearly impossible to fail.
And who cares if you did fail? What happens if the shatterer is not driven off? Nothing. What happens if the frozen maw is not defeated? Nothing. What happens if the shadow behemoth is not defeated? Does he rampage through queensdale spawning a tide of beasts from the underworld? Um no.The game has so much potential. But it needs a bigger bolder vision driving it forward, it needs more attention to quality control and bug fixes. It needs mechanics being made to work, from open world bosses not being pathetic encounters to making dungeons work and not just being speed run farmfests. I’d love to see how many cof runs have taken place compared to other dungeons….
Maybe I expect too much. But looking back at the vision showed in the manifesto, and then thinking about the game as it stands now, i cant help asking what happened? Where did the drive and ambition go? How have we descended from aspiring to challenge the elder dragons, to now being effectively mercenaries committing genocide over a beach resort?
I feel like I’ve been promised a new Ferrari, and then I’m actually given one, only to find out its got no petrol, the tires are flat, the battery is dead, and no one can quite remember where the keys are.
Great post and I agree.
The world doesn’t feel under threat, because the world is quite large. The dragons that are threatening now that Zhaitan is gone aren’t actually threatening Lion’s Arch. It’s a big world. Jormag is threatening the norn areas, Kralkatorrik the charr areas, and we still haven’t seen much of primordus.
Just because we have events in the area where we beat Zhaitan doesn’t mean the world is safe…but Kryta at least has had a reprieve.
Yes if the game is made more boring, then you can make up lore reasons for it being so. But that’s not a reason or excuse for making the game more boring. Arenanet writes the lore, they could have made Primordus run through Divinity’s Reach and still make it consistent with the lore.
GW2 has been out for a while, and I am becoming increasingly ambivalent about it.
Whats changed? Why have my attitudes towards the game i was once so enthusiastic about altered? Well, I’ve been thinking about it, and I’ve come to the following conclusions.
Has that ever not happened to you after 10 months? Passion is lost over time, even for the most important things in life. It’s not like GW2 is on the level of a car, wife, kids, job. If passion for a videogame declines over the course of ten months … are you really surprised?
The conclusions are not relevant. What’s relevant is the fact that this game is not new anymore. Eye candy isn’t eye candy anymore. That’s not something to cry about.
If I can’t play Guild Wars 2 at work, I won’t work in Guild Wars 2 either.
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
GW2 has been out for a while, and I am becoming increasingly ambivalent about it.
Whats changed? Why have my attitudes towards the game i was once so enthusiastic about altered? Well, I’ve been thinking about it, and I’ve come to the following conclusions.
Has that ever not happened to you after 10 months? Passion is lost over time, even for the most important things in life. It’s not like GW2 is on the level of a car, wife, kids, job. If passion for a videogame declines over the course of ten months … are you really surprised?
The conclusions are not relevant. What’s relevant is the fact that this game is not new anymore. Eye candy isn’t eye candy anymore. That’s not something to cry about.
It has happened to me however, that’s not the point here. More and more we’re seeing developers of new games do this to the mmo community. Make grandiose videos and interviews about how great their game will be how they’ll do all of these things, how their game will have no equal because they too are tired of the same old. The state of the game in no way matches the manifesto. There’s a large list of things they stopped development for right after launch and will probably never pick up. Right now the patches seem like they are trying to keep us busy while trying to scramble to fix things in the background which is never a good sign. People are just pointing this out not because they hate the game but because they want what they paid for, so do I. People who hate the game don’t write well thought out posts like the OP did they write troll posts of one or two sentences so OP definitely cares about the game it’s apparent.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
But I think the game does match the manifesto. So do other people. You and some other people don’t. So what can you do?
Reasonable expectations help. Some people don’t have them.
But I think the game does match the manifesto.
Oh come on, defending anet / the game is fine up to a point, but saying the game matches the manifesto is getting ridiculous.
1. gw2 takes everything you love about gw1 and puts it in a persistent world
well obviously not true, the vast majority of features that made GW1 as good as it was, was left out of GW2. It’s a lie.
2. fully branching personalized storyline: yes until lvl 30-40 or so, then you follow the same story as everyone else and the characters from before don’t even remember you… also the story is more about trahearne than about you. Not a lie but misleading at least
3. most games have boring grind (I swung a sword, oh hey I swung it again!) we don’t want players to grind
this is of course the biggest joke of the whole manifesto, there are numerous features in GW2 that not only encourage but even require grind, and because of GW2’s skill system the “I swung a sword, oh I swung it again” is more true for GW2 than it ever was for any game I played. “we don’t want players to grind” is a lie, if it was true we wouldn’t have dailies in their current state, or achievements like “pop 150 pinatas”, or requirements like stacks of T6 mats
4. in other games the boss respawns 10 minutes later, it doesn’t care that you’re there etc…
well nothing is different in GW2, the boss also respawns a while later, and it still doesn’t care that you’re there. It’s not like anything happens if you don’t kill it.
5. in other mmos mobs stand around in the field and you have to kill 10
in gw2 95% of the mobs stand around in the field too, and the hearts tell you to kill some just like quests in other mmos, the only difference is that you get the choice to do some even more boring and grindy item-based task instead
6. you effect things arround you in a very prominent way
this is subjective I guess, but I sure don’t feel like it
7. the most important thing should be the player
given the randomness of skins from gem-store boxes even though people put up loads of negative feedback about this, and have been asking for direct skin purchases since october 2012, I’d say the most important thing is their income atm.
But I think the game does match the manifesto.
Oh come on, defending anet / the game is fine up to a point, but saying the game matches the manifesto is getting ridiculous.
1. gw2 takes everything you love about gw1 and puts it in a persistent world
well obviously not true, the vast majority of features that made GW1 as good as it was, was left out of GW2. It’s a lie.2. fully branching personalized storyline: yes until lvl 30-40 or so, then you follow the same story as everyone else and the characters from before don’t even remember you… also the story is more about trahearne than about you. Not a lie but misleading at least
3. most games have boring grind (I swung a sword, oh hey I swung it again!) we don’t want players to grind
this is of course the biggest joke of the whole manifesto, there are numerous features in GW2 that not only encourage but even require grind, and because of GW2’s skill system the “I swung a sword, oh I swung it again” is more true for GW2 than it ever was for any game I played. “we don’t want players to grind” is a lie, if it was true we wouldn’t have dailies in their current state, or achievements like “pop 150 pinatas”, or requirements like stacks of T6 mats4. in other games the boss respawns 10 minutes later, it doesn’t care that you’re there etc…
well nothing is different in GW2, the boss also respawns a while later, and it still doesn’t care that you’re there. It’s not like anything happens if you don’t kill it.5. in other mmos mobs stand around in the field and you have to kill 10
in gw2 95% of the mobs stand around in the field too, and the hearts tell you to kill some just like quests in other mmos, the only difference is that you get the choice to do some even more boring and grindy item-based task instead6. you effect things arround you in a very prominent way
this is subjective I guess, but I sure don’t feel like it7. the most important thing should be the player
given the randomness of skins from gem-store boxes even though people put up loads of negative feedback about this, and have been asking for direct skin purchases since october 2012, I’d say the most important thing is their income atm.
Your ONLY legit comment is #1 and anyone with any common sense at all can discount it. I mean did you love the same things about Guild Wars 1 that I did? SO if they took everything that everyone loved, it would be the same game, and it’s not. We all knew the weapon system would be different, we all knew there would be less skills, so anyone who claims they took that line literally shouldn’t be shopping. Every other thing you pointed out…ridiculous.
The story lines do branch. That’s what they said. They never said it will branch forever infinitely and EVERYONE knew all roads led to Zhaitan. Sorry but I call bs on this one.
The I swung a sword line about grind is the single most misquoted piece in the entire manifesto. Trying looking at the entire paragraph instead of taking out the lines you want to push and pretending the rest of it doesn’t exist. The paragraph starts with what happens in other MMOs how you have a boring grind to get to the fun stuff, and the last line is, we want to change the way people view COMBAT. This has nothing to do with grinding for gear. Anyone who speaks English should get this…if they see the WHOLE paragraph.
The part that Colin was talking about was Dynamic events. The part that Ree was talking about was the personal story. There was some confusion and Anet came out with a clarification explaining it immediately when the confusion started. It was very clear to those who followed the game. It was clear to me and many others. Sorry you missed that.
The hearts were added later in the game to keep people in places where dynamic events started. Are you telling me you never saw centaurs charging into an outpost or bandits breaking water pipes? Because that’s in the game. There’s plenty of it. They didn’t say every single dynamic event in the game would be this way, but they did say that events would be more natural than in other games, and they are.
You do effect things…some things more than others. You certainly do when you take an outpost back. I don’t know about you but that feels great to me.
The most important thing is the player. But that doesn’t mean the company isn’t allowed to or isn’t going to make money and guess what? If they don’t make enough money and don’t come out with content, who suffers? The player. Sorry but just because some players don’t like something doesn’t mean that others do.
You’re taking a manifesto, which is a statement of intent and if you can’t see the intent, you’re simply not looking.
In more detail…here’s the Colin Johanson paragraph that most people quote when they talk about grind…the WHOLE paragraph:
Colin Johanson: “When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”
Where does it talk about gear or mats or farming in this paragraph? Does anyone else not actually remember the original definition of grind in MMOs, before people started calling farming grinding?
Grinding was killing stuff to level. In most games you had to kill stuff over and over again to level. Aion ran out of quests and the only way to level was to kill bosses. Over and over again. That’s the grind he was talking about.
He’s talking about stuff like having big encounters like the Shadow Behemoth in a starter zone. He’s talking about stuff like being able to go right from level 2 into SPvP without doing PvE at all. He’s talking about bring the fun back to leveling.
Now you may or may not like the leveling, but that’s what he’s talking about, and for many of us, Anet accomplished what they were trying to do. This game has the best, most fun leveling experience of any MMO I’ve ever played.
OP, I’m in the same boat. I’ve played about 1600+ and at the start of the Dragon Bash event I decided to take a break and play another game. Even the free pets couldn’t keep me. Spent $20,- on coffers so I paid for the content already, but whatever. This is my second break, first one was in January, which only lasted a week. This one will be a lot longer. After spending $400+ on gems I still got more entertainment out of those 1600 hours. So it’s not a waste. (who said buy to play was cheap XD)
But it’s time to plays those other games that have piled up on steam. Might be back though. Enjoying excellent storytelling and atmosphere in none MMO game atm.
(edited by Tower Guard.5263)
Great post, I’m sure a lot of people feel exactly like you.
ArenaNet needs to take a look at their own manifesto, and then find the passion they had when they were about to release the game. Because to be honest, I don’t feel it any longer.
They’d have to hire back the 2 founders. It was THEIR vision, IMHO. This is NOT the game they wanted to make. Where exactly did they go? I’d be VERY interested to see the game they’re working on NOW!
Great post, I’m sure a lot of people feel exactly like you.
ArenaNet needs to take a look at their own manifesto, and then find the passion they had when they were about to release the game. Because to be honest, I don’t feel it any longer.They’d have to hire back the 2 founders. It was THEIR vision, IMHO. This is NOT the game they wanted to make. Where exactly did they go? I’d be VERY interested to see the game they’re working on NOW!
Jeff Strain owns Undead Labs and is working on a Zombie MMO for a console. Patric Wyatt works for En Masse Entertainment…he’s the chief operations officer for Terra. Still want to know?
Mike O’Brien is still here, and Guild Wars 2 is as much his baby as anyone else. But the reality is these games take a whole lot of money to run, more than any other type of game. I think he had a big vision but frankly bit off more than he could chew.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
Does anyone else not actually remember the original definition of grind in MMOs, before people started calling farming grinding?
Grinding was killing stuff to level. In most games you had to kill stuff over and over again to level. Aion ran out of quests and the only way to level was to kill bosses. Over and over again. That’s the grind he was talking about.
After I had plumbed GW1 to the point I got tired of it, I tried Rappelz. Quests got me to level 20. The next quest I could find was for level 35. I tried killing mobs to level, until I realized I was killing mobs to level, so I could kill more mobs to level again. That was the original definition of MMO grind.
I then tried WoW. There were plenty of quests, but some of them felt the same. I remember helping a friend with a Hunter quest where you had to get 3 antlers from some herdbeasts. After killing over 100 of them, he had 1 antler. At this point, my personal definition of grind started to wander.
Then I got to raids. Once the excitement of learning the raid was over (i.e., raid on farm), boredom set in. However, we had to do them week-in, week-out so our core group could all get full tier gear. For what? Why, so we could do it all over again in the next tier. My personal definition of grind wandered a bit further.
Now, I only play games that enable me to do what I want, for as long as I want, but that still allow me to experience the whole game while doing so. GW2 provides that. Does that mean I may never get a legendary? It does, but I don’t care. Does it mean I may never outfit all 11 characters in Ascended trinkets? Maybe, maybe not, and I don’t care.
Sure, I’d like ANet to add more dynamic events, rework dynamic events to have more, well, dynamism. I’d like them to add normal/hard mode dungeons. I’d like them to revise zone events. I’d like them to add more areas like Crystal Desert, Far Shiverpeaks and Ring of Fire (in an expansion I’d be happy to pay for). I believe there are two types of pressure which hinder the addition of this type of content.
- Pressure to make money. This is a business reality.
- Pressure from players who want to play constantly, who eat up content the way a man gobbles down the first food he’s seen in a week, and who demand more new stuff, now.
Hopefully, in addition to working on things to respond to those two pressures, ANet is working on a long-term plan to provide stuff I want. Thankfully, the business model means I can afford to wait and still enjoy myself in game in the meantime.
Agree with most everything that the OP spoke of.
I will speak on behalf of my friends that left the game already there were 40 of us in our guild and now only 3 to 5 play. Most of them left because of the gear grind felt trivial and without purpose. The drop rates were bad and they felt like there was no point to grind for top end gear when the gear they had worked already for them.
People want to feel rewarded when playing a game. Nerfing drops and classes does not increase difficulty or balance the economy it increases rage. The lack of Build diversity and weapons all around are still very poor in the game. Sure you can use other builds but for what reason when there are well documented superior builds out there for any class. So instead of nerfing the builds that are working buff the skills that are weak and not used.
It would be wise if they aren’t already track every trait, weapon, armor type, sigil, rune, trinket ect.. Figure out what people are not using and look into making them better. More balance would inspire new builds. This would help make the classes feel new again. Because right now I’ve been running the same build on each of my characters for I don’t know how long.
In short improving reward for performance would greatly help this game.
| 80 (Guardian) Rusty Tooth | 80 (Warrior) Razer Tooth | 80 (Ranger) Eir Stegallkin |
| 80 (Mesmer) Brook Envision | 80 (Thief) Kuro Rin |
| 80 (Mesmer) Brook Envision | 80 (Thief) Kuro Rin |
Agree with most everything that the OP spoke of.
I will speak on behalf of my friends that left the game already there were 40 of us in our guild and now only 3 to 5 play. Most of them left because of the gear grind felt trivial and without purpose. The drop rates were bad and they felt like there was no point to grind for top end gear when the gear they had worked already for them.
People want to feel rewarded when playing a game. Nerfing drops and classes does not increase difficulty or balance the economy it increases rage. The lack of Build diversity and weapons all around are still very poor in the game. Sure you can use other builds but for what reason when there are well documented superior builds out there for any class. So instead of nerfing the builds that are working buff the skills that are weak and not used.
It would be wise if they aren’t already track every trait, weapon, armor type, sigil, rune, trinket ect.. Figure out what people are not using and look into making them better. More balance would inspire new builds. This would help make the classes feel new again. Because right now I’ve been running the same build on each of my characters for I don’t know how long.
In short improving reward for performance would greatly help this game.
Agree with a lot of this. That last line is golden.
Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
In more detail…here’s the Colin Johanson paragraph that most people quote when they talk about grind…the WHOLE paragraph:
Colin Johanson: “When you look at the art in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s visually stunning. I’ve never seen anything like that before,’ and then when you play the combat in our game, you say ‘Wow, that’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.’ In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”
Where does it talk about gear or mats or farming in this paragraph? Does anyone else not actually remember the original definition of grind in MMOs, before people started calling farming grinding?
Grinding was killing stuff to level. In most games you had to kill stuff over and over again to level. Aion ran out of quests and the only way to level was to kill bosses. Over and over again. That’s the grind he was talking about.
He’s talking about stuff like having big encounters like the Shadow Behemoth in a starter zone. He’s talking about stuff like being able to go right from level 2 into SPvP without doing PvE at all. He’s talking about bring the fun back to leveling.
Now you may or may not like the leveling, but that’s what he’s talking about, and for many of us, Anet accomplished what they were trying to do. This game has the best, most fun leveling experience of any MMO I’ve ever played.
There is no “original” definition of grinding for a mmo. The term grind can refer to all kinds of things, it just depends on what a player finds distasteful. Have to get an attunement? Some called that a grind. Want a particular rare mount or drop? Some people call that a grind. Rep gains, crafting, walking, gathering, filling a Heart quest, map completion, jumping puzzles, achievements, PvP ranks, Fractals, filling a DE bar, you name it…can be called a grind if people don’t enjoy it.
The trick is hiding what people may consider a grind behind fun activities. If GW2 wasn’t such a beautiful world, I would consider Map Completion grinding. If I didn’t enjoy the combat system, killing stuff for any reason would be a grind. If I didn’t enjoy farming, Legendaries would be a grind. I actually can not stand jumping puzzles and consider them to be a grind when there is content behind them I want to get to.
Obviously they failed at making leveling fun for everyone. Many people forgo the leveling process altogether and do it by sidestepping the content. Killing SB is much the same as killing the Shatterer or any other meta boss. The dungeons, which have arbitrary mechanics and which are filled with gimmicky boss fights, have to be done a ridiculous amount of times in order to accomplish anything. Everything in the game is centered around getting to max level as fast as you can, and it’s pretty fast- about an hour a level for normal players. Leveling is trivialized and it behooves a player to get to 80 as soon as possible, then continue doing everything else. The problem here is that there just isn’t anything waiting, just the exact same stuff you’ve seen at level 10.
GW2 has been out for a while, and I am becoming increasingly ambivalent about it.
Whats changed? Why have my attitudes towards the game i was once so enthusiastic about altered? Well, I’ve been thinking about it, and I’ve come to the following conclusions.
Has that ever not happened to you after 10 months? Passion is lost over time, even for the most important things in life. It’s not like GW2 is on the level of a car, wife, kids, job. If passion for a videogame declines over the course of ten months … are you really surprised?
The conclusions are not relevant. What’s relevant is the fact that this game is not new anymore. Eye candy isn’t eye candy anymore. That’s not something to cry about.
Not really, its not the game as such I am bored with. Its that I dont like whakittens becomming. the actual mechanics, setting and the ideas in the manifesto video I still love, and would happily play if Anet could just deliver.
I’ve never been naive enough to think the game perfect, it has its flaws, but they are not being addressed. World bosses are a joke, RNG is getting worse, stuff is buggy. and living story is just too small in scale.
I anet could just inject some real vision and ambition into their development, and stop their obsession with rng and grind, I’d have no problems playing, but its increasingly frustrating to see what Anet are doing to GW2.
10 Months = ~300 days = ~7200 hours
You claim to have played for over 2000 hours. This accounts for 27.7% of every hour the game has been live.
Perhaps your changing perspective on the game has very little to do with the game itself, and more to do with the fact that you have, on average, played over 6.5 hours every single day since the game released?
I’d be tired of anything after that much time. I think you may need a secondary hobby.
Also, you should remember that you got over 2000 hours worth of entertainment for 60 dollars before you came here to complain.
But I think the game does match the manifesto. So do other people. You and some other people don’t. So what can you do?
Reasonable expectations help. Some people don’t have them.
Nothing they said in that Video holds true to the Guildwars 2 today, bar the Art direction, everything else is not true..
Swinging swords repeatedly means grind, 95%+ of Gw2 is grind optional or not play is not a valid alternative..
What we do in this game is meaningless, nothing i do as a character makes one iota of difference to this game and yes 5 minutes later everything resets…The game was not designed for me as a player, it was designed to bleed me dry of money.
Mobs are all standing around all over the world doing nothing, when i get that quest kill centaurs…
Seriously the Manifesto was a lie plain and simple to say otherwise is also a lie.
(edited by Dante.1508)
I wish ANet could see this thread. It’s entirely true.
Nothing they said in that Video holds true to the Guildwars 2 today, bar the Art direction, everything else is not true..
Not even the art. If I had seen players jumping around with purple hair, fuzzy bear hats, princess wands, and tigger backpacks in that video, I would have passed.