Guild Wars 2

Artorous.8573:

1: You rushed to 80, admitted you got there in 3 days, then decided to “grind” dungeons to get the sets. That’s your fault. As an earlier poster said you want everything NOW. Get over yourself. In 1 MONTH a person that plays an ungodly amount of time, such as yourself, will have all of the dungeon armors they are after. Just because you don’t have everything the second you hit 80 you decided to say the grind is too much for you.

You poor thing. So much of what you said is wrong. Let me tell you why.

1) Nobody rushed to 80, nobody needed to. Leveling is incredibly easy in GW2, and anyone that has played since the head start or the first week and is not yet at level 80 is playing so badly that they probably got their parents to install the game for them. You get XP for picking stuff up, pressing F a bunch of a times around a yellow heart, killing things, crafting, exploring, running through an orange circle on your minimap while a dynamic event happens, and doing the story. So again, no one has rushed. I also saw this same kind of whining on the SW:TOR forums when everyone complained about the state of the game, people like you told them to go back to WoW and that it’s their fault somehow.

2) According to GW2’s manifesto, GW2 will have no grinding. According to the lead content designer Colin, he said nobody likes grind, nobody finds it fun. Having a set of dungeon gear should therefore not be grind. Do you follow so far? Y/N. Someone wanting a cosmetic set of gear should not be attacked by labeling him a grinder.

3) He, nor anyone else said that he wanted everything “NOW”. Never.

4) I’ve put in quite a few hours. Mostly to see the game’s content, and to compete with the people that ArenaNet let get away with exploiting the economy below their arbitrary forgiveness level. I am nowhere near the level of having the amount of tokens required for any of these dungeon sets, or a legendary weapon. In fact, I have 5 AC tokens, and 7 Arah tokens. I simply cannot find groups to do dungeons with on anywhere near the frequency required to get these items.

So it seems to me that (i) you have not experienced as much of the game as the people you are blaming for the shortcomings of GW2, and (ii) you seem to grossly misunderstand the amount of grind required for these items, contrary to the game’s manifesto.

^^ I like that pic haha

With that said, I don’t understand why people are upset about loot. The game isn’t about loot and it’s pretty obvious. The issue with the game is that there isn’t anything to do after you hit level cap. Other games focused on loot and that was the deal, in this game, this is not the case. You can get better gear, but there isn’t tougher content out there that it will give you an edge in. PvP in this game is just castle rushing and banging on doors. Team with the most people and better people in /map giving loud direction wins.

GW2 is just a fun game you play with your friends in. It’s nothing more.

here is my 2cent

if gw2 has no grind how does it keep the players? would you stay if everyone can get exotics really easy?

the real problem is dungeon fix.. the reward sucks, i dont care about difficulty because it’s not super hard, just if you repeat the run you get less money, which make you lose gold over time since you repair cost > running the dungeon

Zen.1740:

You poor thing. So much of what you said is wrong. Let me tell you why.

1) Nobody rushed to 80, nobody needed to. Leveling is incredibly easy in GW2, and anyone that has played since the head start or the first week and is not yet at level 80 is playing so badly that they probably got their parents to install the game for them. You get XP for picking stuff up, pressing F a bunch of a times around a yellow heart, killing things, crafting, exploring, running through an orange circle on your minimap while a dynamic event happens, and doing the story. So again, no one has rushed. I also saw this same kind of whining on the SW:TOR forums when everyone complained about the state of the game, people like you told them to go back to WoW and that it’s their fault somehow.

2) According to GW2’s manifesto, GW2 will have no grinding. According to the lead content designer Colin, he said nobody likes grind, nobody finds it fun. Having a set of dungeon gear should therefore not be grind. Do you follow so far? Y/N. Someone wanting a cosmetic set of gear should not be attacked by labeling him a grinder.

3) He, nor anyone else said that he wanted everything “NOW”. Never.

4) I’ve put in quite a few hours. Mostly to see the game’s content, and to compete with the people that ArenaNet let get away with exploiting the economy below their arbitrary forgiveness level. I am nowhere near the level of having the amount of tokens required for any of these dungeon sets, or a legendary weapon. In fact, I have 5 AC tokens, and 7 Arah tokens. I simply cannot find groups to do dungeons with on anywhere near the frequency required to get these items.

So it seems to me that (i) you have not experienced as much of the game as the people you are blaming for the shortcomings of GW2, and (ii) you seem to grossly misunderstand the amount of grind required for these items, contrary to the game’s manifesto.

1. I’m fairly certain the only way to get to 80 in 3 days is to rush through. There is absolutely no possible way you can experience all the content in all of the maps you come across during the leveling process in 3 days. None, zip, nadda. He rushed because he wanted to get to endgame so he can be leet and farm all those exotics. Edit: I never once said go back to WoW. I actually used WoW as an example of how long getting Max Stat End Game gear can actually take, and it is far, far, far longer than GW2.

2. According to the designer there would be no grind while leveling. There is none unless you chose to do it yourself. They said there would be no grind in getting max statted gear. Again, there is none unless you chose to go about it that way. You can easily get a full set of exotic gear the second you hit 80 if you played smart and didn’t spend your money on everything. Just because you weren’t handed every piece of every dungeon set/legendary the second you hit 80 doesn’t mean getting a full set of max stat gear isn’t easy to get.

3. He didn’t have to say it. He’s been playing for less than a month and is already complaining because he doesn’t have everything he wants. It’s the exact same thing with different words.

4. Join a guild? I don’t really know what to tell you there. It’s easy to get a quick speed run group together. If you haven’t managed to then it’s not ANet’s fault. I just checked the chat on my server and there are at least 5 people trying to get groups together. I prefer to use guild runs myself but, as I said earlier, it’s not ANet’s fault that you haven’t done runs as often as you wanted.

SO it seems I haven’t misunderstood anything about anything. I played GW1. The amount of time it takes to get a full dungeon set is NOTHING compared to how long it took to get a full set of endgame gear there. I still, to this day, don’t have all the sets completed for GW1 and I started when Factions was released.

Artorous.8573:

Cerise.9045:

Alice.8694:

Stratto.3869:

Relentless.5678:

I like to think long-term. I have long-term goals for what I want to accomplish in-game. Sort of a nebulous ever-changing miasma of adventure and kitten-kickery. (I just made up a new word!) It is important to look good and feel good. It is real real nice to have 1000 gold (I can only guess). I plan on getting to that point, but I also plan on that taking a long time. If those goals were able to be accomplished in weeks or days I wouldn’t count them in my long-term goals list. I’d be angry in fact because my list just got shorter.
Going on most of the comments from people in the “pro-grinding” camp; I can only take home the fact that some people want their time to be worth more than mine.

What if I told you those goals are now impossible without buying Gems? what will you do?

I’d tell you you’re talking kittenkittens… And suggest you actually try to demonstrate this with data before making absurd assertions that clearly aren’t true.

Way ahead of you
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-GW2-IS-becoming-a-Grind-MY-thoughts/page/3#post155137

You could try making the 50 gold by playing the game. Jon stated earlier today that dungeons are designed to be one of the best ways to make money. You get 13 silver for completing a dungeon now minus whatever you lose on repairs. That’s 385 dungeon runs to get your exotic gear. Does that sound reasonable to you?

With 2 hours of farming ore/lumber I made just over 10 gold. Now, that came from ore/wood/gems/coral and of course mob drops. I then proceeded to buy low/sell high for some of the items I’ve noticed on the TC for another 2 gold. So in just over 2 hours I made 12 gold. Yeah, ANet is really forcing me to use the Gem Store to get my gold. Ohhh, again, you just want to do 1 of 100 things to get your gold then get mad when you can’t do it anymore. By golly batman, you’re right! They are forcing YOU to use the Gem Store, sadly I’m not you so I don’t have to do that.

You farmed 334 orichalcum worth of mats by gathering for 2 hours? Did you find a stack of 30 rich orichalcum nodes or something?

Or you got 11000 mithril.

State of my game from last night after having going into a dungeon explorable without experience, not reading the options and being rail-roaded into an option (I don’t know whether or not it was the ‘easiest’ option, but it featured a boss that would pull everyone to him, stun them and then instantly kill everyone – great first experience of that explorable!), getting significant chunks of my armour damaged or destroyed; having gone to this dungeon because I had spent the last of my money on crafting materials – to help get guildies level 80 armour (yellow), which I did without charging them – so as such I ‘lost’ a lot of money), having got a drop of 5 silver(!) from 1 mob boss I decided to cut my losses for the night and didn’t actually finish the explorable (other people had already started quitting).

Todays gaming:
Following what could be considered leaving the game yesterday in the worst possible state last night, I decide to spend the last of my money to teleport to the nearest major city to use the asura portal to get to lion’s arch and access a bank where I remembered long ago getting a repair canister from a rare (!) unlocked chest (rare compared with the drop rate on the actual chests themselves), repairing the armour that I was wearing, and then spending another 2 silver repairing an armour piece that I had swapped out after it had become destroyed. This leaves me with about enough money to get to a dungeon again, and remembering that the dungeons give 26 silver for a completed story run, I choose to join a group.

The group on entry seems disorganised, with someone at some point deciding to pull a complete extra mob onto us; and ultimately at the end of the run I have about 4 armour pieces damaged. Eventually the cinematic plays which I choose to skip having seen it before (but not in the past 24h) and wait for the reward (after about 2 minutes deciding what it wants to do) of 5 silver. Great. Well I made maybe about 1 silver from the run.

So I decide instead I’ll go kill some mobs for crafting materials and in a much shorter time (maybe 15 minutes all told) manage to gather several tier 5 materials to sell for ~1s each after deductions on the TP and make ~32s, but will have to repair 1 piece of armour (~1.5s) and teleport back there again (~2.5s).

I decide to give up for the night after maybe 1 hour gaming time. Progress towards exotic armour set, negligible. Progress towards the daily (which I have always tried to finish), no gathering, maybe 1 or 2 events, not many kills with little variety. But at least I now have a float of money that I can use.

I think tomorrow I will just farm the mobs for crafting materials to sell, because at this stage I don’t care about looks, I just want to get the end tier armour/weapons. Or even just complete crafting the rare armour set I’m about halfway through for myself.

Or maybe I’ll go back to the games I was playing before I heard just prior to launch that GW2 was coming out. I will NOT spend money in the shop with the current state of affairs.

How GW2 became a grind game i tell u how – did u see what u need to have to be able make legendary weapon ?
Precursor weapon specific to the legendary
500 Dungeon Tokens specific to the legendary
Two level 400 crafting professions specific to the legendary
200 Skill Points
525,000 Karma
120 gold
100% World Completion
500 Badges of Honor
250 Globs of Ectoplasm
250 Vicious Fangs
250 Vicious Claws
250 Vials of Powerful Blood
250 Elaborate Totems
250 Armored Scales
250 Ancient Bones
250 Piles of Crystalline Dust
250 Powerful Venom Sacs

and whats funny Stats on Legendary Staff Bifrost is exactly same as my Exotic staff crafted by my friend, so please tell me game designers why in world would i spend months non stop grinding to get all THESE ingredients to get weapon which not even AN UPGRADE .
and its only for 1 weapon so if u actually swapping back and worth u need 2 so have fun :P

Too much effort for too little reward in end game… which is still quite bugged… I don’t like the direction they’re going with this. I find quite discouraging and disappointing to see 1 copper as part of a reward, getting underwhelming loot when the personal story is done, losing money with armor repair in dungeons (which loot now hardly compensates), and successive patches tailored to increase end game grind.

I like to play a game to have fun in a reasonable way, not to have grind increased and gameplay nerfed whenever a more rewarding way to achieve things is found.

I think that like this, GW2 will not be the next WOW. It will be the next SWTOR.

The costs for armour are way too high. Dungeons give very little and as an elementalist i get beaten up a lot, so my repair costs are painful even on a good day. Also, as an asura, most of my armour options are less detailed than those for other races and this leaves the racial gear as one of the few attractive options….and the cost on that is crazy.

I dont think that i even have the karma for a single piece of orr armour and i`ve been at 80 for a while now, doing events all over the place. It’s not hard, its just far too time consuming.

Not only do you have to spend the next 5 years to get all those mats and meet all those conditions just to get a visual upgrade to BitFrost.

Bitfrost looks like kitten.

Emma.2018:

How GW2 became a grind game i tell u how – did u see what u need to have to be able make legendary weapon ?
Precursor weapon specific to the legendary
500 Dungeon Tokens specific to the legendary
Two level 400 crafting professions specific to the legendary
200 Skill Points
525,000 Karma
120 gold
100% World Completion
500 Badges of Honor
250 Globs of Ectoplasm
250 Vicious Fangs
250 Vicious Claws
250 Vials of Powerful Blood
250 Elaborate Totems
250 Armored Scales
250 Ancient Bones
250 Piles of Crystalline Dust
250 Powerful Venom Sacs

and whats funny Stats on Legendary Staff Bifrost is exactly same as my Exotic staff crafted by my friend, so please tell me game designers why in world would i spend months non stop grinding to get all THESE ingredients to get weapon which not even AN UPGRADE .
and its only for 1 weapon so if u actually swapping back and worth u need 2 so have fun :P

Oh great I’m a Necro that uses Wand/Focus & Dual Daggers so I’ll have to get this or similar 4 times? I’ll be skipping them. Hooray for no grind.

This is so true… Anet says they will get rid of grind, makes the grind worse this patch…

I don’t even understand what they are thinking. Anyone who says otherwise is just a fanboy that needs to get off of Anet’s buttocks…

This is just ridiculous… (I have everything geared btw, so don’t tell me not to grind anymore, cuz I already did).

If you’re that unhappy with the game, leave. Ranting and stirring up conspiracy theories is not going to benefit anyone.

^ fanboy example. Perfect.

Hooplah.3150:

^ fanboy example. Perfect.

Hardly. For the record, the knee jerk reaction of ‘fanboy’ does nothing to support an argument. People need to stop acting as if it’s the devil’s work if a game offers something that cannot be accomplished in a few days.

A game doesn’t need to be a second job, though at the same time nor does it need to make anything and everything available for everyone. If you really want a particular set, learn to invest.

Garenthal.1480:

If you’re that unhappy with the game, leave. Ranting and stirring up conspiracy theories is not going to benefit anyone.

OR we could make threads and discuss it. We already know Anet listens to their customers so why not now?

LualdiTia.8562:

Garenthal.1480:

If you’re that unhappy with the game, leave. Ranting and stirring up conspiracy theories is not going to benefit anyone.

OR we could make threads and discuss it. We already know Anet listens to their customers so why not now?

Yeah, people are free to discuss things within the boundaries of the terms of service.

OK so its been like what 3 week?
You are telling us that you are upset because you can not have the best of the best items in 3 weeks?
In an MMO?
Seriously?

It was marketed as being different than other MMOs in exactly that sense.

Edit: They should at least provide a non-grind gear path to a full set of exotics with good stats for an arbitrary profession and build. This is lacking.

Elusive.9162:

OK so its been like what 3 week?
You are telling us that you are upset because you can not have the best of the best items in 3 weeks?
In an MMO?
Seriously?

It was marketed as being different than other MMOs in exactly that sense.

That always seemed to be more along the lines of being that we pay a one time fee and then we can play the game whenever we want and within our own time without feeling obliged to log in to make the most of a subscription fee.

That always seemed to be more along the lines of being that we pay a one time fee and then we can play the game whenever we want and within our own time without feeling obliged to log in to make the most of a subscription fee.

What about this?

When your game systems are designed to achieve the prime motivation of a subscription-based MMO, you run the risk of sacrificing quality to get as much content in as possible to fill that time. You get leveling systems that take insane amounts of grind to gain a level, loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play, thousands of wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn, etc.
But what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? What if your content-design motivations aren’t driven by the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?

— http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

There are other examples.

Honestly, this game has felt like a grind since day one.

They made it out like it was so different from previous mmos- and from what I recall of GW1 (until endgame ecto farming anyway) a lot of the challenge was just getting through an area.

Now, you do what? You farm hearts- which are 95% gather x/kill x quests THE EXACT SAME BORING STUFF WOW WAS. But no, it’s so different because… you don’t have to talk to someone with a big yellow ! above their head.

Seriously!? THAT is the innovation?!

Most ‘hard’ fights are about dodge kiting since apparently teamwork and healing/tanking roles are evil- but running around in chaos, dodging and rez-zerging is brilliant.

Do you know what really made WoW the ‘king’ of mmos for so long, despite it’s 3 button spam combat and grinding? Variety- perhaps not for world pve but in dungeons- where WoW focused- you had a lot more going for it in ways of strategy and teamwork.

GW2- for a game that’s built for large group play- seems to have embraced this bizarre ‘every man for himself’ strategy for just about everything.

Wow, someone brought up the legendary weapons and how they aren’t heads ahead of exotics. Kudos. They are suppose to take a long time to get because they are Legen… wait for it… dary! What the hell were you expecting? A WoW version of legendaries that give you the ability to completely own anyone that doesn’t have one? I mean check the stat differences from Masterwork to Exotic. It’s hardly any difference. Lengendary weapons are suppose to be rare, they are meant for people who are willing to put the time and dedication in to crafting one. They are NOT meant for the people who come to the forums and complain about how long it takes to acquire them.

If they are all similiar to the bow then they are worth the investment. Shooting rainbows from your legendary bow is something no one else is going to be able to do unless they put the time in to justify the reward. The people who expect a huge stat boost are playing the wrong game.

Elusive.9162:

OK so its been like what 3 week?
You are telling us that you are upset because you can not have the best of the best items in 3 weeks?
In an MMO?
Seriously?

It was marketed as being different than other MMOs in exactly that sense.

Edit: They should at least provide a non-grind gear path to a full set of exotics with good stats for an arbitrary profession and build. This is lacking.

Yes it was indeed marketed as being different from traditional grind based mmos, that was one of the main reasons I spent my money on this game. And it seems they did spent big bucks on the marketing side of GW2. If you saw the manifesto, is was pretty impressive.

i think really its time to throw the ball back at anet

their mission statement is fun as opposed to grind

without any form of teamplay combat is just not fun and thus turns into a grind

so u can brag about dropping trinity and doing things different, and face it we all hoped they would actually pull that off, we are now facing a mess
of course people are looking for some other satisfaction (ie rewards) when the fun isnt delivered
When combat is fun the rewards are a side issue. Like in gw1 where u had an hour of fun and then discovered u got some additional reward (a title or w/e)

this phrase kinda sums up the predicament we are in:

“Most ‘hard’ fights are about dodge kiting since apparently teamwork and healing/tanking roles are evil- but running around in chaos, dodging and rez-zerging is brilliant.”

dont get me wrong i want to move forward, but as it is now chaos dodging rez zerging isnt more fun than trinity

We were promised an alternative for trinity but it just isnt there
so lets start with admitting that and try to fix it
we have learned now that class dependency and group mechanics can also be rewarding and are not only an evil thing that needs to be avoided at all cost

I dinged level 80 on my alt and bought a full set of rare gear for 3g. This rare gear is about 5% worse than exotic dungeon gear.

End result? Hey, I don’t have to farm dungeons or huge amounts of gold to be competitive.

You grind if you want to for new skins.

Stratto.3869:

Gauradan.8361:

Soothsayer.9476:

Stratto.3869:

LostMK.4089:

good job Trion Riot ArenaNet

Well played. I’m OK with things taking time, but when you can actively see them expanding on that ammount of time it’s aggravating. I got a full time job and a partimer, I don’t have the time to farm for a few hours a day.

Then don’t farm for a few hours a day, why do you even need to? Because you want everything right now?

Have you ever tried not to be a mindless fanboy? They promised a game without gruelling grinds. Now, when it’s released, we find out the endgame is even grindier than in other MMOs. Then, when people find ways to elude the grind or make it easier, they nerf them. Why? As the OP pointed out, they’re trying to coerce you into spending money on gems (perhaps more money per month than you would have paid for a subscription). I would rather have paid 13 euros per month than have the game become this pile of dung designed to make you use the shop.

Fine transmutation stones used to be available for karma. Now, you hardly ever get them in the world, so store’s the way to go.

Repairs were something they weren’t even considering a year or two ago, yet here they are.

Traits were promised not to have a respec cost, yet here it is.

They claimed mounts weren’t needed because we had waypoints. Yet who would’ve known they would cost so much?

Because of the store, certain areas of the game are worse than even Guild Wars 1 (travel was free there, there was no armor damage).

No matter how much perfume you put on a pile of dung it will still stink. Despite the viral marketing, despite the crappy trailer that tells us about how they are innovating the genre, some people can still see that the endgame was designed to be a korean grind (a la NcSoft), designed to encourage you to use the store.

^THAT is exactly what I am calling them out on. It s HUGE Problem that everyone knows about in the back of their heads but they are too concerned with punishment to actually bring it up. We, as the consumers shouldn’t have to be scared of repercussions for voicing our opinion. After all we did pay for a product based on the message of “NO MORE GRIND”

^ this while I find the game fun still I fear that when I have a level 80 I will just pack up and play something else because even at 40 the dungeons suck the loot sucks and everything is so expensive I don’t want to buy it and the Gem store just reminds me of Diablo and that is not a good thing. If they want to do something to trade for real money make it more like EvE where you pay your sub with in game money or real money and you can buy an in game item with real money that is used to pay for your sub or be sold for a nice sum in game currency.

That was just an example because anything is better than that rigged gem store which idiots still use religiously. I really hope they read this because it something every single one of us feared would be the case during betas when they refused to show of any end content much less how short the beta event was. The only thing keeping me enjoying it right now is the fact that I have not done everything once and that the content is still new because I am really slow at leveling been 2 weeks I am level 40, because I just casually get too things when I feel like it. The pvp is fun though but even that is getting old really fast because there is nothing interesting like in the beta events all we have for PvP now is capture points and 2 weeks of one server dominating the entire 3 maps in WvWvW.

Now that I am no longer… we will call it “Away” I want to continue this discussion.

I want to pose a question to anyone watching this thread:

Is sacrificing the quality of the product AFTER a consumer purchases it in order to keep them playing really fair to the consumer?

Maybe we would use the cash shop more if there were better items. I sure as heck not gunna spend 10 bucks for 800 gems that give me 1.5 gold. Especially the way prices are now. If there is a bottom cap for prices, there needs to be a top cap as well. And it should adjust to the economy. Until that time arrives give the player back their means to make their money.

Stratto.3869:

Is sacrificing the quality of the product AFTER a consumer purchases it in order to keep them playing really fair to the consumer?

I don’t accept your question’s assumptions. It presumes quality was lost and that it was done to keep players playing. This thread addresses these changes, perhaps you can offer your response there, as it will be illuminating to say the least:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Hidden-Mechanics-Affecting-Player-Behavior/first#post177110

SirMoogie.9263:

Stratto.3869:

Is sacrificing the quality of the product AFTER a consumer purchases it in order to keep them playing really fair to the consumer?

I don’t accept your question’s assumptions. It presumes quality was lost and that it was done to keep players playing. This thread addresses these changes, perhaps you can offer your response there, as it will be illuminating to say the least:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Hidden-Mechanics-Affecting-Player-Behavior/first#post177110

If you take away the easiest options to make money in this game, all the ones that are left are the difficult ones. Effectively making the game more difficult without ADDING content but rather changing the existing “stuff”. With so many money sink integrated in the game already, the only logical conclusion is that we are being steered toward the Gem shop. It’s not that hard to imagine, they want more money, that’s fine. But rather than take from our rewards, perhaps offer better deals?

I think the Op should stop playing game and get over themselves… This thread is useless and helps no one on this forum. This forum is meant to help people not deter people from a game. Especially since he does not know what he talking about!

dchsknight.3042:

I think the Op should stop playing game and get over themselves… This thread is useless and helps no one on this forum. This forum is meant to help people not deter people from a game. Especially since he does not know what he talking about!

Sir, please give us an example of how I don’t know what I am talking about. You are just flaming my OP. You are offering NOTHING to the conversation. What you are doing is violating the forum rules, BELIEVE me I became DEEPLY acquainted with them whilst I was… “Away”

And FYI this thread allows people to discuss the changes we’ve been seeing since release. My OP is OPinionated (seewhatididthere), it’s MY opinion. I haven’t said: “you should leave this game” Heck, I haven’t even said I have left the game.

Please refrain from using exclamation marks on remarks that are akin to: “you’re a liar!” and “your information is incorrect” I invite you to prove me wrong, Sir.

Stratto.3869:

dchsknight.3042:

I think the Op should stop playing game and get over themselves… This thread is useless and helps no one on this forum. This forum is meant to help people not deter people from a game. Especially since he does not know what he talking about!

Sir, please give us an example of how I don’t know what I am talking about. You are just flaming my OP. You are offering NOTHING to the conversation. What you are doing is violating the forum rules, BELIEVE me I became DEEPLY acquainted with them whilst I was… “Away”

And FYI this thread allows people to discuss the changes we’ve been seeing since release. My OP is OPinionated (seewhatididthere), it’s MY opinion. I haven’t said: “you should leave this game” Heck, I haven’t even said I have left the game.

Please refrain from using exclamation marks on remarks that are akin to: “you’re a liar!” and “your information is incorrect” I invite you to prove me wrong, Sir.

No, I will not prove you wrong because I don’t have to prove anything you.

You have give opinion and you state it as fact. You think you speak for the whole of the gamer base but you really only speak for yourself. You can not place your beliefs on to other people it does not work!

o·pin·ion
? ?[uh-pin-yuhn]
noun
1.
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

So therefor, You fail. Your Opinion is just that. A judgment that rests on insufficient grounds. Your own words discredit you. You are whiner and complainer.

AND; I will use exclamation points where ever I feel!

Stratto.3869:

If you take away the easiest options to make money in this game, all the ones that are left are the difficult ones.

Or it’s put back into line with other avenues for making money allowing for multiple activities for making money, as opposed to only one viable means of making money. I happen to like variety, you may not, fair enough. However, the point is that toning down one means of money making does not entail that the others are difficult, rather it could be that the one toned down was too simple. You haven’t demonstrated it was the case that the CoF runs were actually the norm and the other difficult, and the devs have demonstrated how easy it actually was:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/The-CoF-Buff-My-opinions/page/2#post158017

Effectively making the game more difficult without ADDING content but rather changing the existing “stuff”.

I’m not sure how difficulty was ramped up in this game. If by difficult you mean specific look acquisition, then yes the game was made more difficult. However, this is not a common sense notion of the term “difficult”. It was well known before this game was released that the prestige armor was to be difficult to obtain, as acknowledge in the dev response above.

With so many money sink integrated in the game already, the only logical conclusion is that we are being steered toward the Gem shop.

There are very few mandatory money sinks. Waypoints (not optional), trading post fees (optional), armor repairs (varies on skill), merchant goods for tradeskill (optional, varies on tradeskill), gathering tools/kits (optional, but a great way of overcoming other monetary sinks by using the trading post), trait point reassignment (optional), trait books (one time purchase). I am incredulous to your suggestion that you are actually blowing more money on these combined than you are taking in, if you are actually playing the game. However, please list on average what your daily expenses are and what your income is.

My income has only grown since playing. I’ve splurged a bit here and there on trading post purchases for gear and the more expensive cooking tradeskill, which caused loss of income, but I’ve never been a position where I had to avoid waypoint travel. I’ve also never done your preferred method of making gold, so I must be doing something right by using all these “difficult” means of making money. Perhaps it’s that I sell some mats on the trading post or gear that I can make a profit on over vendoring? I don’t know, but it’s never been difficult to make coin.

Friends, this game IS NOT A GRIND.

there is not much of a reason to grind, its marginal and you only do it if you want to.

endgame is simply about PvP, seeing new region an gathering mats, doing events here and there, a dungeon when you feel the time is right and can gather a good party.

and wait for new content.

you have to realize that the average player is about lvl 30 at max right? with 30-40h played in 3 weeks, which is a lot already.

you can eat up all the content, but then, yeah, the game is about pvp, or grind or a new toon. its your choice.
be grateful they dont give you the illusion of progress by rerunning the same
area over and over.
the are good enough to let you be free.
which is AWESOME.

Avatar.1923:

Friends, this game IS NOT A GRIND.

there is not much of a reason to grind, its marginal and you only do it if you want to.

endgame is simply about PvP, seeing new region an gathering mats, doing events here and there, a dungeon when you feel the time is right and can gather a good party.

and wait for new content.

you have to realize that the average player is about lvl 30 at max right? with 30-40h played in 3 weeks, which is a lot already.

you can eat up all the content, but then, yeah, the game is about pvp, or grind or a new toon. its your choice.
be grateful they dont give you the illusion of progress by rerunning the same
area over and over.
the are good enough to let you be free.
which is AWESOME.

Amen! Promote this kind of posting on the forums not the Op’s opinion. Build it up not tear it down!

If you want to get the armor right now, you should be able to do so without the amount of grind that is currently in the game. There should be some grind involved obviously but they need to do something to correct the amount of it.

It’s possible to make the “I want it now” and “I can wait for it” people both happy. Or at least come to a better middle ground. Make tokens universal or give them a chance to drop off mobs in the dungeon. That will go a long way to cheer some folks up and it doesn’t hurt any one elses style of play.

Avatar.1923:

you can eat up all the content, but then, yeah, the game is about pvp, or grind or a new toon. its your choice.
be grateful they dont give you the illusion of progress by rerunning the same
area over and over.

What about endgame content? There shouldn’t be any of that because you consider endgame content a grind?
Take away the badge grind and put in random drops. Then I can be excited each time I run a dungeon that I might get something I need.

The fact is there just isn’t enough post-80 content, and what is there, is exactly a grind, and not “fun” like the leveling process was. That’s the issue. Leveling was very well-thought out. Endgame was not. It needs to be fixed asap.

levelling is fun because of the new gear that drops?
no.
its fun because you explore new places, see new boss, try new
things.

game isnt about “gear” and kitten token or whatever.
just wait for more content,
or enjoy pvp, 100%map completion, or dungeon for a challenge.

forget your “reward” mentality.
there is barely reward in a game like nhl13 or team forteress!

Because this conversation is occuring in multiple threads at the same time, in the interest of keeping things clean and providing a singular place for feedback, we are diverting all discusison of this topic to this sticky.

Thanks for understanding