Guild Wars 2

Watch the vid…

This guy is the best commentator ever… (some foul language)

Oh and this is my opinion before you pull out your torches and pitchforks and march to string me up and hang me…like all good fanboys do.

I really dont see where the “no grind…we want you not to have to do that and have fun in GW2” thing the devs talk about.

I know its optional…however this grind is worse then just about any other MMO grind for anything (rare super elite items) I have ever seen…unless its some crap F2P pay to win game.

Shouldn’t the experience of gaining a legendary item be…legendary?
Or fun and a unique experience?

Discuss?

Legendaries aren’t forcing players to grind.

Ascended are.

I agree, got my last legendary in WoW in 1/10th of the time, and it had a epic story the whole way too. I think they really missed the point on legendaries and assume they are simply meant to be one huge boring grind.

The problem is so much RNG, and ANets obsession with the mystic toilet.

heres another video of the mindless dusk grind

Right so you admit it’s optional then complain?

Hint: it’s not fun, which is why a lot of people don’t care
About it.

RoRo.8270:

Right so you admit it’s optional then complain?

true and not true…yeh I know its optional…I complain because I see the word legendary…I know not many people will have one..I never will cause I refuses the grind…

However…my biggest annoyance is that for such cool items they chose the lowest, boring form of grinding. There is no fun story attached, no epic quest….no special boss fights nothing… maybe Im just a quest driven “need a purpose” kind of person and not a brain dead kitten grind for hours for months person.

They should rename them to something else and not legendary….unrelated I know but even in books or movies a persons quest for a legendary item is usually followed by a legendary quest to get that item…if that makes sense.

Wasn’t aware that optional = Boring.

nethykins.7986:

Wasn’t aware that optional = Boring.

Well…this is a game where the only endgame is doing “Optional” stuff.

nethykins.7986:

Wasn’t aware that optional = Boring.

Wasn’t aware that optional = amazing.

Angelus.1042:

nethykins.7986:

Wasn’t aware that optional = Boring.

Well…this is a game where the only endgame is doing “Optional” stuff.

True, it’s endgame, and endgame stuff is optional. However, the optional end-game content should not be boring.
Gives you less of a reason to stick around.

Erasculio.2914:

nethykins.7986:

Wasn’t aware that optional = Boring.

Wasn’t aware that optional = amazing.

Neither did I. Anet seems to think that they’d like their stuff to be fun to do. It’s been kind of a core concept for them. It doesn’t have to be amazing, just more fun than it currently is now, or at least some level of it being interesting.

For some reason I would rather gather 10x more of the items for a legenday if each had 100% chance of being acquired everytime I try. In such a case, I could foresee better how far I have progressed with my goal.

Rukia.4802:

I agree, got my last legendary in WoW in 1/10th of the time, and it had a epic story the whole way too. I think they really missed the point on legendaries and assume they are simply meant to be one huge boring grind.

The problem is so much RNG, and ANets obsession with the mystic toilet.

Mystic toilet….that’s just totally hilarious. You made my day with that one

Some people enjoy grinding. Some people enjoy rewards. You don’t. He does. There’s no reason for you to do it.

It’s really pretty simple.

You can grind until your fingertips bleed.

Or you can be smart about it and have your legendary…well, last week.

garraeth.3267:

You can grind until your fingertips bleed.

Or you can be smart about it and have your legendary…well, last week.

Or, just forget the whole legendary stuff and do something fun instead ^^

Death Reincarnated.3570:

For some reason I would rather gather 10x more of the items for a legenday if each had 100% chance of being acquired everytime I try. In such a case, I could foresee better how far I have progressed with my goal.

Totally agree, for me there’s nothing worse than having noooooooooooooo idea how long something is going to take because there’s no way of knowing how RNG is going play.

Far, far better to know how long it’ll take, you can then decide if it’s something you’re prepared to tolerate because for you, the reward’s worth it.

So Dontain got it done back in november, three months from launch doesn’t seem that long to me.

Did you try to get the Time-Lost Proto-Drake in WoW ?

“Legendary weapon” to me means that I’ll rarely even get to see anyone with one, and I haven’t seen any (on a full server) in almost 500 hours of play. That’s a good thing.

The easier Legendary weapons are to obtain, the less legendary they are. Make them too easy to obtain and they will be about as legendary as pulling up to the gym in a mini-van.

Alloy.2839:

The easier Legendary weapons are to obtain, the less legendary they are. Make them too easy to obtain and they will be about as legendary as pulling up to the gym in a mini-van.

Hey, soccer moms have just as much right to use the treadmill as the rest of us.

I have two legendaries and I found the hard work and dedication to be fun and rewarding.

But then again people call me a gold buyer or someone who bought it from the TP, so I don’t really care.

What they said pre Nov 15 doesnt exist please remove that from your memory. This is anet 2.0 and manifesto 2.0. Grind vertical progression boring bad game play in 1 spot 24/7.
Just in case you have an idea not to do the above they made sure you will get 0 loot reward and wont be able to waypoint back to the start area since you wont have the money.
Legendaries are a side product meant to keep the vanity going nothing more but added a little enticement of stat increase. Buy gems you will hmm?

The truth is, there has to be a grind. If there wasn’t a grind, these legendaries would be common as ever, the grind helps separate common and the uncommon. That’s why they’re working on a scavenger hunt and it has to be carefully design so that it can’t be abused and taken advantage of, making a surge in the precursors and dropping the prices very rapidly.

Legendary Weapons are not as legendary as they used to be. Reason? Trading Post.

People are shifting their mindset to buying precursor materials and/or weapons themself, rather than playing the game. Perhaps ANet is trying to fix this, however, the easiest and quickest route at the monent would be getting gold and converting it at the TP.

Once again with that, you have a sense of knowing how much time/effort/money you need to spend, whereas with the whole RNG/DR you feel lost and frustrated.

IMHO, all parts of the legendary should not be part of the TP. This is one end game path/goal that should not be dictated by the TP.

I don’t know, when I reached 80 the game turned into something totally different and new. Yes there is a grind for exotic gear and legendaries, however I view it since it is a free to play game, they just made that a way to make up for endgame content.

It’s ftp and its a game that I can just log on whenever I want and just play just because I like to play the game. If you want a more storyline thing like wow had and more of a “progressive” raid type thing happening I would suggest this is the wrong game for you.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Legendary Weapons are not as legendary as they used to be. Reason? Trading Post.

People are shifting their mindset to buying precursor materials and/or weapons themself, rather than playing the game. Perhaps ANet is trying to fix this, however, the easiest and quickest route at the monent would be getting gold and converting it at the TP.

Once again with that, you have a sense of knowing how much time/effort/money you need to spend, whereas with the whole RNG/DR you feel lost and frustrated.

IMHO, all parts of the legendary should not be part of the TP. This is one end game path/goal that should not be dictated by the TP.

Thing is, everything can be bought with gold. Even if legendaries weren’t buyable and it had to be done through completing a series of difficult task, it would make it even easier to get then. People will sell their service to relieve people of doing such difficult task. Unless they made it purely solo content but then that’s just not the way it was intended was it? Even then, the solo content would still be easier and people would just repeat it until they got it thus making legendaries easily obtainable. The truth is, the real solution isn’t that simple and the current implementation is the BEST of the options that have been available.

A legendary item must drop from a legendary boss/dungeon and not made in mystic toilet. At least that’s how i see it.

Yeah, I would definitely like it if legendaries were more interesting to acquire… but [warning, reference to another MMO incoming] acquiring legendaries is NOTHING compared to the process it took to get and upgrade Relic weapons in FFXI. You need tons of money, tons of friends, luck with your Dynamis runs (it was easy to wipe back in the day) and the currency drops. It took years for some to acquire and most did not.

Legendaries, on the other hand, basically just require time and money. No need for 20-40 man raids dropping loads of kinah once a week once a week to spawn an instance with a chance at getting the drops you need. Hopefully the process for legendaries will become more interesting in the future, but there are other sparkly weapons that are a lot more fun to get (like the ones requires drops from dragons).

The way I see legendary weapons is that, yes perhaps they are optional but you can’t deny that most people do want them, and they are the most end game PvE content, there’s nothing you can’t achieve without it but the road of getting it is horrible to say the least.

Why not make an adventure out of it, that’s what I don’t get, like a treasure hunt of some sort, kinda like the one for Mad Kings event, run across the whole map, explore look for it, get hint’s of some sort from mobs you kill, involve dungeons into it, fractals, jumping puzzles, open world bosses, whatever you want, but a massive grind? I’m sorry but there is nothing legendary about a massive grind for the end PvE content. Sure a lot more people would have a legendary if it was that way, and so what? Isn’t the whole point of the game to have fun? I don’t have to pay 50 euros to go to work.

The “r-word” amount of grind is just a weak design idea to try making these items rare.

It doesn´t speak for the ones coming up with this “gameplay”(HAH!) nor frankly the ones who voluntarily suffer through it.

To be honest, if I actually see somebody with a legendary I mainly “pity the foo”.

Though Dontain is still the man.

Shear Force.9154:

The way I see legendary weapons is that, yes perhaps they are optional but you can’t deny that most people do want them, and they are the most end game PvE content, there’s nothing you can’t achieve without it but the road of getting it is horrible to say the least.

Why not make an adventure out of it, that’s what I don’t get, like a treasure hunt of some sort, kinda like the one for Mad Kings event, run across the whole map, explore look for it, get hint’s of some sort from mobs you kill, involve dungeons into it, fractals, jumping puzzles, open world bosses, whatever you want, but a massive grind? I’m sorry but there is nothing legendary about a massive grind for the end PvE content. Sure a lot more people would have a legendary if it was that way, and so what? Isn’t the whole point of the game to have fun? I don’t have to pay 50 euros to go to work.

Ooh, that’d be fun. Exploring the world, maybe collecting certain items from champions to use in the craft. Obviously, these things are required to some extent since you need the gift of exploration, but it could be a lot more interesting and fun using your methods. If that’s too “easy” then why not add timers to certain mobs – make them only spawn in the rain at night once every 22 hours or 6 days, or what-have-you, to extend the process?

Using a tedious grind as a barrier to acquiring the legendary just doesn’t interest me. That said, after just playing the game for a number of months, I could probably purge my Karma on this character, drop some gold, and finish world competition and get it.

Poor chap he grinded for so long just to get that sword well legendary is not for me.

Kaleden.9386:

Shear Force.9154:

The way I see legendary weapons is that, yes perhaps they are optional but you can’t deny that most people do want them, and they are the most end game PvE content, there’s nothing you can’t achieve without it but the road of getting it is horrible to say the least.

Why not make an adventure out of it, that’s what I don’t get, like a treasure hunt of some sort, kinda like the one for Mad Kings event, run across the whole map, explore look for it, get hint’s of some sort from mobs you kill, involve dungeons into it, fractals, jumping puzzles, open world bosses, whatever you want, but a massive grind? I’m sorry but there is nothing legendary about a massive grind for the end PvE content. Sure a lot more people would have a legendary if it was that way, and so what? Isn’t the whole point of the game to have fun? I don’t have to pay 50 euros to go to work.

Ooh, that’d be fun. Exploring the world, maybe collecting certain items from champions to use in the craft. Obviously, these things are required to some extent since you need the gift of exploration, but it could be a lot more interesting and fun using your methods. If that’s too “easy” then why not add timers to certain mobs – make them only spawn in the rain at night once every 22 hours or 6 days, or what-have-you, to extend the process?

Using a tedious grind as a barrier to acquiring the legendary just doesn’t interest me. That said, after just playing the game for a number of months, I could probably purge my Karma on this character, drop some gold, and finish world competition and get it.

Yep, I’ve yet to see a movie where a hero does a mindless task for one and a half hours to get a weapon that he needs to slay the dragon, if you know what I mean. Point is the Legendary weapons are supposed to represent what you did in the game, like, the things you have slayed, the places you’ve been, the things you have found, the riddles and mysteries you’ve solved. Right now it represents the amount of grind you’ve done, or the amount of gold you were able to merch, or the saddest of them all, the amount of gold you have bought.

Endless PvE item grinding/mob farming is the absolute laziest way to implement high-valued endgame gear. As others have pointed out, there is nothing “legendary” in accomplishing it. All you’ve proved upon obtaining a legendary is you had the patience and time (or you’re a millionaire irl) to perform a mind-numbingly dull task.

I understand the need for some form of a grind in order to maintain rarity – although this is kind of a moot point since sooner or later your server will be filled with people that have epic weapons. It happened in EQ, it happened in DAoC (epic armor+dragon raid items) it happened in WoW and mark my words, it will happen in GW2.

Imo if a grind must exist it should be quest-based. Make it a long chain that requires raids like EQ did. At least the grind would be entertaining in a way.

Actually, they’ve already failed in their promises in this regard:

“It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.” -Jan 15 Months ahead front page post.

If I don’t want to item grind, I cannot obtain a legendary. If I’m focused on WvW entirely without any PvE, I cannot obtain a legendary. The way I want to play the game does not reflect their design philosophy. Either way you slice it, you cannot argue this fact.

Alphaone.6345:

Actually, they’ve already failed in their promises in this regard:

“It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.” -Jan 15 Months ahead front page post.

If I don’t want to item grind, I cannot obtain a legendary. If I’m focused on WvW entirely without any PvE, I cannot obtain a legendary. The way I want to play the game does not reflect their design philosophy. Either way you slice it, you cannot argue this fact.

From Anet’s president, Mike O’Brien

Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.

I think they’re pretty consistent with their promise. Remember, Legendaries aren’t more powerful than Exotics.

EDIT: source: http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/

It isn’t fun at all. It’s a terrible failure at content creation… there’s no context for the legendaries, there’s no story. Just grind — grind of Asian proportions, 10x worse than anything World of Warcraft ever had.

Meh, maybe so I guess I concede that. Still, a lazy implementation of it to be sure.

Alphaone.6345:

Meh, maybe so I guess I concede that. Still, a lazy implementation of it to be sure.

Well, lets play some armchair game developing then shall we?

So how do you design a “non-lazy” way to obtain a the rarest weapon that, according to the president, should take about 1000 game hours?

I gave an example in my post even though I am not required to give one. If it takes 1000 hours so be it; however, it should be some semblance of fun. But hey, if people have fun grinding items then I guess who the kitten am I to judge them

Alphaone.6345:

I gave an example in my post. if it takes 1000 hours so be it; however, it should be some semblance of fun. But hey, if people have fun grinding then I guess who the kitten am I to judge them

Yeaaaa, I’d like to see you design a 1000-hour long quest chain.

Ursan.7846:

Alphaone.6345:

Meh, maybe so I guess I concede that. Still, a lazy implementation of it to be sure.

Well, lets play some armchair game developing then shall we?

So how do you design a “non-lazy” way to obtain a the rarest weapon that, according to the president, should take about 1000 game hours?

Simple, look at WoW legendaries, they are grinds too but fun as well. Raids are involved and so are quests, not simply grinding a bunch of items and having a ton of RNG. Btw it’s not our job to figure out ways to implement fun gameplay, it is ANets.

RoRo.8270:

Right so you admit it’s optional then complain?

Ok, what’s my option? What content does ArenaNet intend players to invest themselves in IF NOT LEGENDARY ITEMS?

It was the single most important thing they talked about when they talked about end-game in that video.

WHAT, THEN, IS END-GAME?

The option is not to play at all.

Ursan.7846:

Alphaone.6345:

Actually, they’ve already failed in their promises in this regard:

“It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.” -Jan 15 Months ahead front page post.

If I don’t want to item grind, I cannot obtain a legendary. If I’m focused on WvW entirely without any PvE, I cannot obtain a legendary. The way I want to play the game does not reflect their design philosophy. Either way you slice it, you cannot argue this fact.

From Anet’s president, Mike O’Brien

Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.

I think they’re pretty consistent with their promise. Remember, Legendaries aren’t more powerful than Exotics.

EDIT: source: http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/

That statement is their escape goat, and everyone with a bit of common sense will agree. Legendary weapons are the end PvE content and should have never been implemented in such a way, not when throughout 7 years of development time they kept saying,

“It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.”

this isn’t new, this philosophy was there from the very start, and if you ask me both of these statements contradict one another.

Ursan.7846:

Alphaone.6345:

I gave an example in my post. if it takes 1000 hours so be it; however, it should be some semblance of fun. But hey, if people have fun grinding then I guess who the kitten am I to judge them

Yeaaaa, I’d like to see you design a 1000-hour long quest chain.

I don’t have to. Your using the only game in town fallacy against me. Just because it may seem to be the only available explanation or route to take does not make it the correct route to take. Just because I cannot solve the problem doesn’t mean that my logic is invalid.

Shear Force.9154:

That statement is their escape goat, and everyone with a bit of common sense will agree. Legendary weapons are the end PvE content and should have never been implemented in such a way, not when throughout 7 years of development time they kept saying,

“It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.”

this isn’t new, this philosophy was there from the very start, and if you ask me both of these statements contradict one another.

I will repeat. Legendaries aren’t more powerful than exotics.

Exotics weapons are currently the most “powerful” weapons one can obtain. Mike O’Brien says you can attain the most “Powerful” (stat-wise) weapons relatively easily. But to get a certain appearance, one must grind.

I don’t see a contradiction at all. Unless you’re somehow equating “powerful” to “unique skin.”

Ursan.7846:

Alphaone.6345:

I gave an example in my post. if it takes 1000 hours so be it; however, it should be some semblance of fun. But hey, if people have fun grinding then I guess who the kitten am I to judge them

Yeaaaa, I’d like to see you design a 1000-hour long quest chain.

You hook in 90% of the requirements to the Story Quest as rewards for passing certain parts the rest are gotten From tough Bosses in the Story dungeons or whatever..

Yes its not 1000 hours but its a start and it fits the game more than the stupid crap we must do now…
Yes most people would have one but who cares its a game meant for “fun” not to slave over spend a fortune on and lose hundreds of hours on a forum complaining that people can’t make a 1000-hour long quest chains..

Yes legendaries are optional its reach level 80 leave the game or make a legendary (such as they are), that sure is some option..

Ursan.7846:

Shear Force.9154:

That statement is their escape goat, and everyone with a bit of common sense will agree. Legendary weapons are the end PvE content and should have never been implemented in such a way, not when throughout 7 years of development time they kept saying,

“It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.”

this isn’t new, this philosophy was there from the very start, and if you ask me both of these statements contradict one another.

I will repeat. Legendaries aren’t more powerful than exotics.

Exotics weapons are currently the most “powerful” weapons one can obtain. Mike O’Brien says you can attain the most “Powerful” (stat-wise) weapons relatively easily. But to get a certain appearance, one must grind.

I don’t see a contradiction at all. Unless you’re somehow equating “powerful” to “unique skin.”

Until acended weapons come out, and legendary weapons get bumped up to be better than exotics and people who don’t have legendary weapons will end up grinding for the next tier of gear, your argument is rather invalid, while they aren’t better than exotics at the moment, it is the end content that more than half the people don’t to do, that says something.

Ursan.7846:

Alphaone.6345:

Actually, they’ve already failed in their promises in this regard:

“It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.” -Jan 15 Months ahead front page post.

If I don’t want to item grind, I cannot obtain a legendary. If I’m focused on WvW entirely without any PvE, I cannot obtain a legendary. The way I want to play the game does not reflect their design philosophy. Either way you slice it, you cannot argue this fact.

From Anet’s president, Mike O’Brien

Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.

I think they’re pretty consistent with their promise. Remember, Legendaries aren’t more powerful than Exotics.

EDIT: source: http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/

Ah, but they’re really not exactly as powerful as Exotics because of one special feature….the devs have promised they will always be equal to the Best-In-Slot item.

Which means that legendaries have a somewhat more intangible function, but one that makes them more powerful than anything else in the game: an infinitely scaling power level that will be increased whenever the devs add more vertical progression to the game.

For example, when Ascended weapons come out, they’ll get buffed to match. Then when the level cap raises, we can reasonably expect another buff to match whatever the top stats are. And this will continue on forever. Legendaries are anti-grind protection: do a massive grind once, and never have to grind for gear again. That’s a power that players have incredibly underestimated because they aren’t looking at the long term.

The easiest way to illustrate this sort of intangible effect in the long term is to use WoW’s longevity as an example. If they had created a “legendary” system similar to GW2 that always got stronger based on the top stats and level cap at the time, players in 2005 would’ve gotten a really strong Lvl 60 weapon….then presuming they still owned it today, it would now be Lvl 90 in power. All without the player lifting a finger. They could have completely skipped the gear grind for 30 levels of game play. That’s not a small advantage, that’s a huge one. One that I think even GW2’s devs have underestimated.

So, if legendaries are going to be the strongest items in the game (and with free infinite power scaling, they definitely are), then they do violate that promise. Sad as it is, GW1’s “Voltaic Spear” was by far a lot more fitting with that promise….and the hunt for one of those was entirely RNG!

I have The Juggernaut and Predator.

I have 1550 hours played

Personally I have enjoyed the farming and obtaining all the materials required. And I dont regret it at all It was awesome when I finished it.

You dont enjoy it? No one is forcing you to do it, right ?

P.S.: I dont care about BIS status, I have already transmuted both Legendaries (now they are orange and have ’’transmuted’’ instead.) Because I did it only for skin. And by this I might ruined my chances for upgrade to ascended stats, I dont care. Atleast I will have something to work for when released

Legendary weapons are only really expensive and awesome looking CRAFTED weapons. No one here is entitled to have one. Only a choice. All the farming, gold, materials is just a price for this awesome looking skins, price you must pay. Not complain about.

Personally the current way to get a Legendary seems severely tedious and definitely isn’t helped that you’re continuously playing the RNG lotto at every step; talk about soul destroying.

While I admit that yes, it should not be too easy to acquire otherwise everyone and their mother will have it, thus making the Legendary status a bit obsolete; but on the flip side that should not mean spending hours upon hours grinding for mats then praying to the RNG gods that you get what you need. As a few people have already pointed out, there is nothing fun about that nor does it make you feel like you’ve achieved a great feat to get it. It just means you got lucky and nothing else (or you’re rich as sin and buy it outright on the TP)

Personally I feel the way to get a legendary should’ve been similar to the way you acquired Biggoron’s Sword in Ocarina of Time – a long quest chain which has you first get an item as a drop, maybe a boss drop or something to at least have some challenge still there, which then kick starts the ‘trade game’.

That way it could take you to all the corners of Tyria finding specific items for your needed Legendary to ‘trade’ to an NPC, of course throwing in some boss battles or something here and there to break it up a bit for you. That way it could have a share of guaranteed drops (e.g give item to NPC only to get another in it’s place which you then take to another NPC/a certain place to spawn a monster etc) and it’s fair share of RNG in there too (e.g boss drops or something).

There’s a few ways they could do it, it’s just a case of trying to find creative ways to do it and finding that balance.