Guild Wars 2

Katsaurs.6013:

Personally I feel the way to get a legendary should’ve been similar to the way you acquired Biggoron’s Sword in Ocarina of Time – a long quest chain which has you first get an item as a drop, maybe a boss drop or something to at least have some challenge still there, which then kick starts the ‘trade game’.

That way it could take you to all the corners of Tyria finding specific items for your needed Legendary to ‘trade’ to an NPC, of course throwing in some boss battles or something here and there to break it up a bit for you. That way it could have a share of guaranteed drops (e.g give item to NPC only to get another in it’s place which you then take to another NPC/a certain place to spawn a monster etc) and it’s fair share of RNG in there too (e.g boss drops or something).

This post has it nailed. There should be a story behind this “legendary” item, and that doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone will get one, either. If anything, placing Legendaries behind an intensive and long quest that is significantly challenging would guarantee that even less people owned one than there are now, as I guarantee some of the folks who own a Legendary right now would never get it if it required skill to obtain….and perhaps the best example of this would be me. Yes, I am suggesting moving to a system which may well make it impossible for me to ever get a Legendary….which either means I’m not doing this for selfish reasons and honestly want to improve the game, or I’m extremely masochistic. :P

But I just want to highlight something that this user has pointed out. Namely, that there were games as far back as 1998 that provided a better, more convincing structure behind their “legendary” items than GW2 does. Hell, honestly even WoW does the idea better. The devs should not settle for their current structure, and frankly, neither should the players. It’s perfectly reasonable and even smart for players to demand better, as that will make the game better, too.

critickitten.1498:

Katsaurs.6013:

Personally I feel the way to get a legendary should’ve been similar to the way you acquired Biggoron’s Sword in Ocarina of Time – a long quest chain which has you first get an item as a drop, maybe a boss drop or something to at least have some challenge still there, which then kick starts the ‘trade game’.

That way it could take you to all the corners of Tyria finding specific items for your needed Legendary to ‘trade’ to an NPC, of course throwing in some boss battles or something here and there to break it up a bit for you. That way it could have a share of guaranteed drops (e.g give item to NPC only to get another in it’s place which you then take to another NPC/a certain place to spawn a monster etc) and it’s fair share of RNG in there too (e.g boss drops or something).

This post has it nailed. There should be a story behind this “legendary” item, and that doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone will get one, either. If anything, placing Legendaries behind an intensive and long quest that is significantly challenging would guarantee that even less people owned one than there are now, as I guarantee some of the folks who own a Legendary right now would never get it if it required skill to obtain….and perhaps the best example of this would be me. Yes, I am suggesting moving to a system which may well make it impossible for me to ever get a Legendary….which either means I’m not doing this for selfish reasons and honestly want to improve the game, or I’m extremely masochistic. :P

But I just want to highlight something that this user has pointed out. Namely, that there were games as far back as 1998 that provided a better, more convincing structure behind their “legendary” items than GW2 does. Hell, honestly even WoW does the idea better. The devs should not settle for their current structure, and frankly, neither should the players. It’s perfectly reasonable and even smart for players to demand better, as that will make the game better, too.

Ye as someone who crafted Legendary and HATE story quests, quests in mmorpgs. I dont like this idea. I would like to see some lore, interesting backround to the Legendaries but only on top of actual requirements.

So yea … NOT everyone enjoy story quests or whatever. Many and Many Legendary owned or players who are half way there are satisfied with current way of crafting it. Dont see any reason to change it. Everyone know the requirements and either you accep them or dont

So yea, personally I think these topics are useless, there WONT be any change to this system but small tweaks. Too many players did spent A LOT of hours crafting their Legendaries and Areanet wont just screw them over because of few players who dont like it.

CURRENT system gives you a choice to do whatever you like to obtain all the material, golds, etc. required (dungeons, events, WvW, TP, …) Quest chains would give players no choice!! So no … thank you.)

Then why not have both systems in place? The story option for those that want to have a purpose behind it, and the current option so people like yourself who dislike having to wade through plot can keep grinding?

I thought this was supposed to be a game that offered different avenues to get what you need, why then can’t you do that for Legendaries? Sure there’s this scavenger hunt idea I hear they’re working on(?) which is great if so, but nothing wrong with going through additional ideas.

Katsaurs.6013:

Then why not have both systems in place? The story option for those that want to have a purpose behind it, and the current option so people like yourself who dislike having to wade through plot can keep grinding?

How do you design the story option so that it’s equal to the time/effort required for the other option?

Kacigarka.5176:

Ye as someone who crafted Legendary and HATE story quests, quests in mmorpgs. I dont like this idea. I would like to see some lore, interesting backround to the Legendaries but only on top of actual requirements.

So yea … NOT everyone enjoy story quests or whatever. Many and Many Legendary owned or players who are half way there are satisfied with current way of crafting it. Dont see any reason to change it. Everyone know the requirements and either you accep them or dont

How can you find the “requirements” fun. Requirements are something you do for work. If you derive fun from repetitive grinding, grats for you, but that’s quite the opposite of what O’Brien and Company sold us.

Kacigarka.5176:

Ye as someone who crafted Legendary and HATE story quests, quests in mmorpgs. I dont like this idea. I would like to see some lore, interesting backround to the Legendaries but only on top of actual requirements.

So yea … NOT everyone enjoy story quests or whatever. Many and Many Legendary owned or players who are half way there are satisfied with current way of crafting it. Dont see any reason to change it. Everyone know the requirements and either you accep them or dont

So yea, these topics are really useless, there WONT be any change to this system but small tweaks. Too many players did spent A LOT of hours crafting their Legendaries and Areanet wont just screw them over because few players dont like it.

Given that devs cannot cater to everyone, the majority should be the group catered to. Judging from this forum alone, your position is most certainly not the majority. It’s usually you and the same other five people. Whereas there are new users posting new threads about Legendaries almost daily.

But frankly, you still haven’t proven why we can’t just implement both systems. All you’ve said is “I like the current model ergo they shouldn’t change it”, which doesn’t actually mean that we’re not allowed to implement a second system on top of the existing (terrible) one for people who want an actual development behind their legendaries.

Heck, it’s not even hard to just keep the existing system and just add story, actually. Just keep the existing grind but have the players turn in the items to a certain NPC who explains some of the backstory behind the “Gift” items, and rewards you with those items once you finish their grind. Those who grind will see absolutely no hampering of their ability to do so, yet it also adds depth that the game is totally devoid of right now. What’s wrong with that?

Ursan.7846:

Katsaurs.6013:

Then why not have both systems in place? The story option for those that want to have a purpose behind it, and the current option so people like yourself who dislike having to wade through plot can keep grinding?

How do you design the story option so that it’s equal to the time/effort required for the other option?

If I knew that I’d be a developer lol. As I said, I’m simply putting forth ideas. I did mention about boss battles and the such within the story; i’m thinking along the lines of of Final Fantasy XI in which boss battles were always implemented into a story. Yes, the drops you needed were often guaranteed to drop but who’s to say that it couldn’t be range?

Yes, it could be seen as frustrating still but at least it’s another avenue to take rather than throwing stuff at the MF all day.

Katsaurs.6013:

Then why not have both systems in place? The story option for those that want to have a purpose behind it, and the current option so people like yourself who dislike having to wade through plot can keep grinding?

I thought this was supposed to be a game that offered different avenues to get what you need, why then can’t you do that for Legendaries? Sure there’s this scavenger hunt idea I hear they’re working on(?) which is great if so, but nothing wrong with going through additional ideas.

Yes and good luck balancing them both to be equal and you can aswell give all those resources for balancing it, developing it to Anet

Katsaurs.6013:

Ursan.7846:

Katsaurs.6013:

Then why not have both systems in place? The story option for those that want to have a purpose behind it, and the current option so people like yourself who dislike having to wade through plot can keep grinding?

How do you design the story option so that it’s equal to the time/effort required for the other option?

If I knew that I’d be a developer lol. As I said, I’m simply putting forth ideas. I did mention about boss battles and the such within the story; i’m thinking along the lines of of Final Fantasy XI in which boss battles were always implemented into a story. Yes, the drops you needed were often guaranteed to drop but who’s to say that it couldn’t be range?

Yes, it could be seen as frustrating still but at least it’s another avenue to take rather than throwing stuff at the MF all day.

I just feel people waaaaaaaaay oversimplifies the effort really required to come up with something like this. From the perspective of devs, both options have require the same amount of time/effort: or else no one is going to pick one of the options.

There’s many incredible, excellent single-player games out there. How many of them gave you over 1000+ hours of unique gameplay? Heck how many of them have 100+ hours of a single, unique storyline?

I can totally understand those people wanting stories and quests behind legendaries. However, you just have to understand that you have to temper your expectations. Unless Anet decides that Legendaries should suddenly become a ton more accessible (possible, you never know) I don’t see them doing anything like that.

Zeldain.5710:

Kacigarka.5176:

Ye as someone who crafted Legendary and HATE story quests, quests in mmorpgs. I dont like this idea. I would like to see some lore, interesting backround to the Legendaries but only on top of actual requirements.

So yea … NOT everyone enjoy story quests or whatever. Many and Many Legendary owned or players who are half way there are satisfied with current way of crafting it. Dont see any reason to change it. Everyone know the requirements and either you accep them or dont

How can you find the “requirements” fun. Requirements are something you do for work. If you derive fun from repetitive grinding, grats for you, but that’s quite the opposite of what O’Brien and Company sold us.

They told us that we dont need to grind to be equal. They didnt tell there is NO grind in this game .) grind is just optional

Kacigarka.5176:

CURRENT system gives you a choice to do whatever you like to obtain all the material, golds, etc. required (dungeons, events, WvW, TP, …) Quest chains would give players no choice!! So no … thank you.)

Because you kept editing that post, I’ll answer this bit.

The current system does give you choice on how to acquire the items yes – but by no means do you have a choice on how to use those items to get your next stage items. You’re still funnelled into using the MF to keep going – how is that a choice? Quest chains could give the player the same sort of freedom; like to craft? Perhaps then have some crafting avenues within the story you could branch down to. Like to PvP? Then again, perhaps there could be quest lines tailored to that.

How it’s implemented is another story entirely, but at least there’s some ideas there that doesn’t force you to use the MF. The way I see it the effort in getting the materials alone should be enough of a feat to get the item, and if it’s via account bound mats then so be it.

Hey anyone could get Legendaries.
Nothing special there.
The question is…. To Grind or Not to Grind. Thats bout it.

I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the people who did get the legendary also hated the road of getting it, they just didn’t have a choice.
The way people are proposing it to be may be hard to achieve from the developers perspective, but the way it is not took minimal effort.
“Insert this and that into the forge = that”

Point is when you have a piece of content in the game that more than half the people don’t want to experience there is something wrong with it.

Although the video is amazing and is truly accurate I LAUGHED SO MUCH!!!!! thank you for posting

Kacigarka.5176:

They told us that we dont need to grind to be equal. They didnt tell there is NO grind in this game .) grind is just optional

Then tell me what content I can do in it’s stead to progress my character.

Grind is NOT optional if you want to play the game.

Zeldain.5710:

Kacigarka.5176:

They told us that we dont need to grind to be equal. They didnt tell there is NO grind in this game .) grind is just optional

Then tell me what content I can do in it’s stead to progress my character.

Grind is NOT optional if you want to play the game.

Nonsense! Grind is, like, totally optional! You don’t have to do anything!

If you don’t like Ascended items, just don’t get them.
If you don’t like Legendary items, just don’t get them.
If you don’t like achievements, just don’t do them.
If you don’t like dungeons, just don’t do them.
If you don’t like Orr, just don’t play there.
If you don’t like Southsun Cove, just don’t play there.
If you don’t like WvW, just don’t do it.
If you don’t like sPvP, just don’t do it.

Of course, that doesn’t leave much of a game left to play after you hit Lvl 80, since you’ve basically shrugged off every problem area in the entire game as “optional content”, but seriously, the game is just fine as it is! There’s clearly nothing wrong, no content that needs fixing, no need to look at the man behind the curtain! And no changes! I don’t like change!

(sarcasm intended, clearly)

critickitten.1498:

Zeldain.5710:

Kacigarka.5176:

They told us that we dont need to grind to be equal. They didnt tell there is NO grind in this game .) grind is just optional

Then tell me what content I can do in it’s stead to progress my character.

Grind is NOT optional if you want to play the game.

Nonsense! Grind is, like, totally optional! You don’t have to do anything!

If you don’t like Ascended items, just don’t get them.
If you don’t like Legendary items, just don’t get them.
If you don’t like achievements, just don’t do them.
If you don’t like dungeons, just don’t do them.
If you don’t like Orr, just don’t play there.
If you don’t like Southsun Cove, just don’t play there.
If you don’t like WvW, just don’t do it.
If you don’t like sPvP, just don’t do it.

Of course, that doesn’t leave much of a game left to play after you hit Lvl 80, since you’ve basically shrugged off every problem area in the entire game as “optional content”, but seriously, the game is just fine as it is! There’s clearly nothing wrong, no content that needs fixing, no need to look at the man behind the curtain! And no changes! I don’t like change!

So basically what you just said after level 80 might as well quit because progressing in any ways past exotic gear is a grind.
There should always be an active and inactive way to achieve whatever you want.
You want the ascended gear fast go grind for it.
You want legendary gear fast go grind for it.
They could have added some other way to get it that perhaps even takes longer something like waiting days for your load stones to charge or mystic clovers to grow whatever these are of the top of my head and say it would take longer like 3 months or something.
Now I’m going to say it again, when there is more than half the people who are avoiding a piece of content in your game, there is something wrong with it, I don’t know if it’s half or more, but I would be willing to bet on it.

All items in the game, including Ascended and Legendary, should be acquirable based on skill, and not based on amount of time spent grinding.

If many people will be able to acquire those items because they can successfully complete in-game tests that will have proven their skill, then let that be so. If skillful players are common in number, then Legendary items should also be common in number too. There is nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

Putting skill-earned Legendary items in the hands of many players will always be a much better design choice than putting Legendary items only into the hands of a few players because they invested an absurd amount of grinding-time in order to get them.

If Anet revokes their current choice to make grinding be the basis by which a player can get a Legendary item, then each Legendary item that will be acquired based on skill, even if a multitude of players end up getting one (or more) in that way, will remain far more meaningful than would any Legendary items in acquired via the grind-based design plan.

TL;DR: Anet should make Legendary items be acquirable based on skill rather than grind, and if many skillful players get them, so what? – that’s fine, they deserve them.

Shear Force.9154:

Yep, I’ve yet to see a movie where a hero does a mindless task for one and a half hours to get a weapon that he needs to slay the dragon, if you know what I mean.

Well I know one movie trilogy that spend about 9 hours trying to get rid of a special ring lol.

Too much RNG involved with this IMO. This is a deal braker for me.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Shear Force.9154:

Yep, I’ve yet to see a movie where a hero does a mindless task for one and a half hours to get a weapon that he needs to slay the dragon, if you know what I mean.

Well I know one movie trilogy that spend about 9 hours trying to get rid of a special ring lol.

Too much RNG involved with this IMO. This is a deal braker for me.

They just had to walk…

critickitten.1498:

Given that devs cannot cater to everyone, the majority should be the group catered to. Judging from this forum alone, your position is most certainly not the majority. It’s usually you and the same other five people. Whereas there are new users posting new threads about Legendaries almost daily.

But frankly, you still haven’t proven why we can’t just implement both systems. All you’ve said is “I like the current model ergo they shouldn’t change it”, which doesn’t actually mean that we’re not allowed to implement a second system on top of the existing (terrible) one for people who want an actual development behind their legendaries.

Heck, it’s not even hard to just keep the existing system and just add story, actually. Just keep the existing grind but have the players turn in the items to a certain NPC who explains some of the backstory behind the “Gift” items, and rewards you with those items once you finish their grind. Those who grind will see absolutely no hampering of their ability to do so, yet it also adds depth that the game is totally devoid of right now. What’s wrong with that?

Why should they design exclusive prestigue weapons that were ment from the begging to be crafted ONLY by small portion of players to MAJORITY ?

Hello?

Legendary weapons are only for most dedicated, rich, most playing, hc players. Not for majority

If you want to add second system, why not. Just give anet all those resources, men power needed for balancing and developing. Because of few players that are not okey with current one …
I dont like lot of things in life, games, etc. But that doesnt mean I have to change them so they fit my taste.

Requirements for Legendaries are set up. From release. So either you do like them (like us) or you dont and you wont have one. Easy and simple. Stop creating treaths like this where you guy cry about it and you want change or another system just because you dont like it. Get over this, there are more imporant things to do than complaining all the freakin time about legendaries, ascended. etc.

It obviously has to take time. But I also wish it truly showed players ability to play the game (not TP).

critickitten.1498:

If you don’t like Ascended items, just don’t get them.
If you don’t like Legendary items, just don’t get them.
If you don’t like achievements, just don’t do them.
If you don’t like dungeons, just don’t do them.
If you don’t like Orr, just don’t play there.
If you don’t like Southsun Cove, just don’t play there.
If you don’t like WvW, just don’t do it.
If you don’t like sPvP, just don’t do it.

If you don’t like the game, you shouldn’t play the game.

I know that was not your point in posting the above, but I think it’s important to notice something here:

• In a classic MMO, if a player said “I don’t like X”, developers would reply by giving X a shiny, big reward. Players would then do X, while still not liking it, just to get said reward. This, is grind.

• In any half decent game, if a player said “I don’t like X”, he/she would not play X. If too many people didn’t like X, developers would change it in order to try to make it more fun, so more people like it and thus more people play it.

Legendaries follow the classic MMO model (which is the cheap, easy model). Guild Wars 2 promised to follow the second model.

It isn’t bad to have content in the game that not everyone enjoys. I don’t like sPvP, but I understand some people do; instead of asking ArenaNet to remove it or to change it so it pleases me (and becomes something that those who like it now wouldn’t enjoy), I simply won’t play sPvP. If a game does not have any worth content that anyone enjoys, it should fail.

What is bad, and overall poor content, is grind. I know there are a lot of grinders – they flock to MMOs since the genre usually catters to them. I know there are some players who enjoy the idea of playing through content they do not think is fun, telling themselves that the “dedication” of doing something like that 10 hours a day for 5 months means they deserve something. However, such content is simply bad. It rewards time spent, which is not worth rewarding; it is a disrespect to gamers, since it equates them to mindless donkeys chasing a carrot dangling in front of their faces; and it helps developers to make mediocre games, since grind doesn’t require content crafted to be fun. Little surprise, then, to see how all classic MMOs are just mediocre – they have been made for grinders, and no one else.

ArenaNet claimed GW2 was going to be better than that. And while they have taken many steps in the right direction, Legendaries are still everything they promised would not be in the game. It’s still just a grind. And should ArenaNet catter to grinders? No.

Legendaries should always be optional (which means, among other things, that they should not have better stats than everything else). I like the way they reward interest in (almost) all aspects of the game; someone who only enjoys WvW is not going to get one, but that doesn’t bother me since they are meant to be optional, and it’s good to have something rewarding interest in all aspects of the game.

The Gift of Mastery is a step in the right direction. It’s not a grind – it’s something earned by playing a bit of everything. The Gift of Fortune, in other hand, is grind in its purest form.

In order to fix the Legendaries, I don’t think ArenaNet should change the way they work so it’s a 1000 hours long quest – that’s not something I consider to be viable. However, they could take the parts of the current Legendaries that work, and add a quest to replace only the grinding aspects that remain. It would be great if the requirement for gifts were moved around, and the gift for each legendary (Gift of Sunrise, Gift of The Bifrost, and so on) were a reward from a quest explaining a bit of the lore behind those weapons.

Erasculio.2914:

If you don’t like the game, you shouldn’t play the game.

I know that was not your point in posting the above, but I think it’s important to notice something here:

• In a classic MMO, if a player said “I don’t like X”, developers would reply by giving X a shiny, big reward. Players would then do X, while still not liking it, just to get said reward. This, is grind.

• In any half decent game, if a player said “I don’t like X”, he/she would not play X. If too many people didn’t like X, developers would change it in order to try to make it more fun, so more people like it and thus more people play it.

Legendaries follow the classic MMO model (which is the cheap, easy model). Guild Wars 2 promised to follow the second model.

It isn’t bad to have content in the game that not everyone enjoys. I don’t like sPvP, but I understand some people do; instead of asking ArenaNet to remove it or to change it so it pleases me (and becomes something that those who like it now wouldn’t enjoy), I simply won’t play sPvP. If a game does not have any worth content that anyone enjoys, it should fail.

What is bad, and overall poor content, is grind. I know there are a lot of grinders – they flock to MMOs since the genre usually catters to them. I know there are some players who enjoy the idea of playing through content they do not think is fun, telling themselves that the “dedication” of doing something like that 10 hours a day for 5 months means they deserve something. However, such content is simply bad. It rewards time spent, which is not worth rewarding; it is a disrespect to gamers, since it equates them to mindless donkeys chasing a carrot dangling in front of their faces; and it helps developers to make mediocre games, since grind doesn’t require content crafted to be fun. Little surprise, then, to see how all classic MMOs are just mediocre – they have been made for grinders, and no one else.

ArenaNet claimed GW2 was going to be better than that. And while they have taken many steps in the right direction, Legendaries are still everything they promised would not be in the game. It’s still just a grind. And should ArenaNet catter to grinders? No.

Legendaries should always be optional (which means, among other things, that they should not have better stats than everything else). I like the way they reward interest in (almost) all aspects of the game; someone who only enjoys WvW is not going to get one, but that doesn’t bother me since they are meant to be optional, and it’s good to have something rewarding interest in all aspects of the game.

The Gift of Mastery is a step in the right direction. It’s not a grind – it’s something earned by playing a bit of everything. The Gift of Fortune, in other hand, is grind in its purest form.

In order to fix the Legendaries, I don’t think ArenaNet should change the way they work so it’s a 1000 hours long quest – that’s not something I consider to be viable. However, they could take the parts of the current Legendaries that work, and add a quest to replace only the grinding aspects that remain. It would be great if the requirement for gifts were moved around, and the gift for each legendary (Gift of Sunrise, Gift of The Bifrost, and so on) were a reward from a quest explaining a bit of the lore behind those weapons.

And who are you saying what doesnt work?

Personally I think Legendaries are okey as they is. Gift of fortune, girft of mastery, gift of ’’weapon’’, precursor. Simple and I agree with them all.

Just because you dont like some parts doenst mean they have to change it.

Thousands of players already crafted their Legendaries. Yes they did. I did 2 already. So Legendaries and crafting it is WORKING. Its not broken.

Your mentality here is. You think that just because you, some players dont like the way of crafting Legendaries, devs must change it. But why should they, they have statistics about how many Legendaries been crafted and they have no reason to change it.

Personally I think too many players have them. So yea, if anything, make them harder or increase prices of material So they trully stay rare

Grinding for a Legendary is not fun to me. Therefore I don’t do it. I’ve found plenty of more enjoyable stuff to do with my 1300 hours in game.

Kacigarka.5176:

Erasculio.2914:

If you don’t like the game, you shouldn’t play the game.

I know that was not your point in posting the above, but I think it’s important to notice something here:

• In a classic MMO, if a player said “I don’t like X”, developers would reply by giving X a shiny, big reward. Players would then do X, while still not liking it, just to get said reward. This, is grind.

• In any half decent game, if a player said “I don’t like X”, he/she would not play X. If too many people didn’t like X, developers would change it in order to try to make it more fun, so more people like it and thus more people play it.

Legendaries follow the classic MMO model (which is the cheap, easy model). Guild Wars 2 promised to follow the second model.

It isn’t bad to have content in the game that not everyone enjoys. I don’t like sPvP, but I understand some people do; instead of asking ArenaNet to remove it or to change it so it pleases me (and becomes something that those who like it now wouldn’t enjoy), I simply won’t play sPvP. If a game does not have any worth content that anyone enjoys, it should fail.

What is bad, and overall poor content, is grind. I know there are a lot of grinders – they flock to MMOs since the genre usually catters to them. I know there are some players who enjoy the idea of playing through content they do not think is fun, telling themselves that the “dedication” of doing something like that 10 hours a day for 5 months means they deserve something. However, such content is simply bad. It rewards time spent, which is not worth rewarding; it is a disrespect to gamers, since it equates them to mindless donkeys chasing a carrot dangling in front of their faces; and it helps developers to make mediocre games, since grind doesn’t require content crafted to be fun. Little surprise, then, to see how all classic MMOs are just mediocre – they have been made for grinders, and no one else.

ArenaNet claimed GW2 was going to be better than that. And while they have taken many steps in the right direction, Legendaries are still everything they promised would not be in the game. It’s still just a grind. And should ArenaNet catter to grinders? No.

Legendaries should always be optional (which means, among other things, that they should not have better stats than everything else). I like the way they reward interest in (almost) all aspects of the game; someone who only enjoys WvW is not going to get one, but that doesn’t bother me since they are meant to be optional, and it’s good to have something rewarding interest in all aspects of the game.

The Gift of Mastery is a step in the right direction. It’s not a grind – it’s something earned by playing a bit of everything. The Gift of Fortune, in other hand, is grind in its purest form.

In order to fix the Legendaries, I don’t think ArenaNet should change the way they work so it’s a 1000 hours long quest – that’s not something I consider to be viable. However, they could take the parts of the current Legendaries that work, and add a quest to replace only the grinding aspects that remain. It would be great if the requirement for gifts were moved around, and the gift for each legendary (Gift of Sunrise, Gift of The Bifrost, and so on) were a reward from a quest explaining a bit of the lore behind those weapons.

And who are you saying what doesnt work?

Personally I think Legendaries are okey as they is. Gift of fortune, girft of mastery, gift of ’’weapon’’, precursor. Simple and I agree with them all.

Just because you dont like some parts doenst mean they have to change it.

Thousands of players already crafted their Legendaries. Yes they did. I did 2 already. So Legendaries and crafting it is WORKING. Its not broken.

Your mentality here is. You think that just because you, some players dont like the way of crafting Legendaries, devs must change it. But why should they, they have statistics about how many Legendaries been crafted and they have no reason to change it.

Personally I think too many players have them. So yea, if anything, make them harder or increase prices of material So they trully stay rare

What the hell are you talking about, so what that thousands of players have made their Legendary stuff, millions haven’t even attempted in doing so, and it has nothing to do with “it’s too hard” or any of that, there is not one person who couldn’t endure the mind numbing that a legendary grind is, it’s the fact that people are pushed away from the content in the game that’s bad, when so many don’t want to do it there’s something wrong with it.

The only reason you don’t mind it, is because you’ve already done it, so your mindset is everyone should do it this way because you did it that way, and if it’s not the prove it by agreeing that there could be a better way around this, and no one ever said it’s broken, it’s just frigging disgusting.

Kacigarka.5176:

And who are you saying what doesnt work?

Personally I think Legendaries are okey as they is. Gift of fortune, girft of mastery, gift of ’’weapon’’, precursor. Simple and I agree with them all.

Just because you dont like some parts doenst mean they have to change it.

Thousands of players already crafted their Legendaries. Yes they did. I did 2 already. So Legendaries and crafting it is WORKING. Its not broken.

Your mentality here is. You think that just because you, some players dont like the way of crafting Legendaries, devs must change it. But why should they, they have statistics about how many Legendaries been crafted and they have no reason to change it.

Personally I think too many players have them. So yea, if anything, make them harder or increase prices of material So they trully stay rare

You seem to be missing the point.

“PvP” is content/systems that players can ignore if they don’t enjoy it.

But “grinding” is different because it doesn’t put any special game play story or new game mode in place as content. Simply “go do this 1000 times regardless of your ability you will be rewarded”

ArenaNet was simply lazy/uncreative in their implementation of what they thought would be sufficient PvE end-game and they’ve had a rude awakening.

They missed the boat on what MMO content should be which is specifically large group-focused organized content. And the rarest rewards should be gated behind that – things that require teamwork. Not grind.

Legendary is Legendary…. if it was easy it wouldn’t be legendary.

Trajan.4953:

Legendary is Legendary…. if it was easy it wouldn’t be legendary.

No.

There’s nothing legendary about spending unreasonable amounts of time doing repetitive and un-fun tasks.

Legendary has a story; legendary has context.

Legendary in GW2 is decidedly NOT legendary.

You couldnt buy legendaries in other games with a credit card. It’s make them pretty unlegendary that you can buy one day 1 when your lvl1

• Reduce resouce grind
• Add more Achievement requirements (All dungeon paths, all jumping puzzles, all mini-dungeons, all meta events ect) so that the Resource / Achievement ratio is about 50:50.
• Add story elements during the creation process (i.e. The only person that can forge the Gift of whatever is hidden deep in the Flame Temple Tombs, the Gift of whatever can only be forged in Mount Maelstrom) and then a final ‘quest’ to add the ‘power’ to it (i.e. You ned to go to Balthazar’s temple, pray, and then defeat the spirit of Vinnie Jones).
• Add lore to it (i.e. Juggernaut was the hammer of Balthazar and contains a drop of Vinnie Jone’s soul).

TheDaiBish.9735:

• Reduce resouce grind
• Add more Achievement requirements (All dungeon paths, all jumping puzzles, all mini-dungeons, all meta events ect) so that the Resource / Achievement ratio is about 50:50.
• Add story elements during the creation process (i.e. The only person that can forge the Gift of whatever is hidden deep in the Flame Temple Tombs, the Gift of whatever can only be forged in Mount Maelstrom) and then a final ‘quest’ to add the ‘power’ to it (i.e. You ned to go to Balthazar’s temple, pray, and then defeat the spirit of Vinnie Jones).
• Add lore to it (i.e. Juggernaut was the hammer of Balthazar and contains a drop of Vinnie Jone’s soul).

^This.

As simple as that.

I hate how some people think, “well, it’s optional, therefor it has a right to be a mind-numbingly boring grind”. Really, how idiotic is that for a response. So it’s alright by some people’s standards that a piece of entertainment has the right to include tasks that represents the complete opposite of being entertaining.
It’s such a completely idiotic response, I can’t even wrap my head around it.

Some players are afraid that if ANet changes the legendary model to something actually challenging, then they wont feel special anymore. The fact of the matter is, anyone, EVERYONE, can get a legendary item. You just need to go to the same spots each day, farm it for hours on end, then throw in a dash of luck and there you are.

I’m sorry, but some people’s concept of being a legend is pitiful indeed.

Getting a legendary item should involve a huge quest that spans all corners of the Tyria, collecting parts by doing difficult and challenging tasks. Things that can’t be bought and requires skilled play to get. That’s what I’ll call an item worth being called legendary. But right now, we have grinding/farming/mega-bucks weapons.

Azjenco.9425:

Some players are afraid that if ANet changes the legendary model to something actually challenging, then they wont feel special anymore. The fact of the matter is, anyone, EVERYONE, can get a legendary item.

I think that’s the main issue.

Some players are simply not the smartest, or the most skilled, or the most learned. The only thing they can do is play longer. The kind of player who, when they have a level 20 characters and can’t defeat a level 20 monster, won’t bother trying to learn to play or change builds or try a different strategy; they would simply grind level 5 monsters until they are level 40, and then try to kill that level 20 monster.

That is the kind of player classic MMOs catter to. They are willing to play a very long time through content they do not enjoy as long as they get to feel special about it. It’s far easier to please this kind of player than to please players who want well made, fun and thus difficult to make content. Ergo, they are nice sources of cash for pay to play MMOs.

GW2 promised to be the opposite of this – “we don’t want players to grind”. However, GW2 is a MMO, and all other MMOs catter to this kind of player; it’s little surprise, then, that so many of them have flocked to GW2, just like they have flocked to every other MMO previously released.

What ArenaNet needs to realize is that they cannot please grinders and normal players. They have many measures in the game to cull grinders away, like the DR system, at the same time they have added raw grind in the game through Fractals and the Legendaries.

Grinders like the way Legendaries currently are, and so they want the game to continue as it is. Normal players want Legendaries to be changed, so they are fun to get, and earning them is a matter of being skilled, not a matter of being willing to spend time doing content that isn’t fun.

The question is, who is ArenaNet going to catter to? Normal players, who are less vocal than the grinders? The vocal minority of grinders? Or both, and thus fail to make something great to either group?

Fun is relative. Some love PvP, others hate it. Some love PvE, others hate it. Some think Fractals is boring, others actuall like it. Anything can be fun to someone, and everything can be boring/grind for someone.

Personally I will enjoy my road to my legendary, I wont rush it… because guess what. Rushing is not fun. Take your time, do things in your time and in your own way. Suddenly it will appear less grindy and more fun.

Everyone complained about grind for titles in GW1 too. Because they rushed that kitten and only cared for the goal and not the road. I enjoyed almost every step, because I did it for the trip there, more than I did it for the goal.

Matter of pespective guys

Every player has a different definition of fun, and I hate it when people screech that a particular event/dungeon/mechanic isn’t fun- therefore everyone doesn’t find it fun- needs to stop posting. That’s not to say that Legendaries can’t be modified in one way or another to make the long term goal more enjoyable, we’ll see in the future how Arena.net handles it.

One thing they do need to change is the diversity of how to obtain the materials for a Legendary. Bolt and Sunrise both require Charged Lodestones for a gift, both have unique properties and are easily distinguishable as Legendaries, but Meteorlogicus also requires Charged Lodestones. It’s a very sought out Legendary to begin with, and while gorgeous, doesn’t have the same effects as other Legendaries have. Which is odd, considering how easy it is to add little tornadoes in your footsteps or a little typhoon form out of your arm would of been to add in.

I had fun running and learning WvW, having obtained roughly 150 badges from it, I just form a party in a zerg and notice a significant increase to the amount of badges dropped. I had a fun learning the different fights in CoE and figuring out the most efficient ways to take down the bosses, even fighting the destryoer by myself, as the rest of my help ate lava or stood back manning the cannons and waiting (don’t worry, his health doesn’t reset, lend me a hand!…I hate standing around for 20-40 minutes beasting the sucker myself). I had fun running fractals, which in turn helped make obsidian shards, experimenting with the 1 and 10 recipes, getting back lodestones and 20 ectos in one shot, that was cool. Each completed gift felt great crafting and after all the effort, I finalized Meteorlogicus and was bloody proud making it. I knew before hand it lacked what other Legendaries possessed, but it was so dang pretty and I’ve wanted it since the first picture of the Legendaries surfaced. At times, it felt like a grind, but others, it didn’t.

There isn’t a way to make obtaining a Legendary without it feeling like a grind. There’s encounters you could add like one I saw saying fighting a Dragon Champion that required some teamwork, but other’s like doing 10 hard jumping puzzles in 30 minutes, that’s also a grind. Whenever you have a list of things you have to do, someone somewhere, will cry it’s a grind. It’s a skin, if you want one, then go for it and all the luck to you. If it’s too much of a grind, then don’t do it, getting tired of the infinite amount of threads over how much of a grind or unfulfilling it is, or how they aren’t Legendary because some statistic they pulled out of nowhere suggest every player who has one bought it (Meteorlogicus isn’t on the TP btw). Or my favorite, targetting players specifically in WvW because they have one, having a Legendary doesn’t make a player skilled, it means they’ve poured effort into making it, a complete moron could easily slam his face into his keyboard for a few hundred hours and pop one out, I did!

Acidicore.3264:

Every player has a different definition of fun, and I hate it when people screech that a particular event/dungeon/mechanic isn’t fun- therefore everyone doesn’t find it fun- needs to stop posting

That’s rather irrelevant, tbh.

Grind has not been made to be fun. Not even the grinders find grind to be fun. The appeal there is in “working” a long time for something, and so getting a big, shiny reward after enduring something that was not fun. For some, such appeal is a sign of dedication, and of being hardcore. For others, it’s equating oneself to a mindless donkey chasing a carrot.

Shear Force.9154:

-snip-

Erasculio.2914:

-snip-

I’m amazed. I had thought the absolutely dripping sarcasm in my post was obvious, but apparently not. I’ll just go ahead and tag the post as sarcastic now so I stop getting people replying who can’t identify sarcasm when they see it. >.<

Kacigarka.5176:

Why should they design exclusive prestigue weapons that were ment from the begging to be crafted ONLY by small portion of players to MAJORITY ?

Hello?

Legendary weapons are only for most dedicated, rich, most playing, hc players. Not for majority

In the last post, you were complaining that those who hate Legendaries as they are right now were just a minority and thus not worth listening to. Now you’re saying the devs should ignore the majority because you’re not among the majority.

So basically you’re saying “everyone else’s opinions are meaningless except my own”. Which is precisely why no one in this thread, least of all the devs, should acknowledge your opinion at all.

If you want to add second system, why not. Just give anet all those resources, men power needed for balancing and developing. Because of few players that are not okey with current one …
I dont like lot of things in life, games, etc. But that doesnt mean I have to change them so they fit my taste.

Requirements for Legendaries are set up. From release. So either you do like them (like us) or you dont and you wont have one. Easy and simple. Stop creating treaths like this where you guy cry about it and you want change or another system just because you dont like it. Get over this, there are more imporant things to do than complaining all the freakin time about legendaries, ascended. etc.

I’m sorry, but you must realize you’re repeating the same tired, overused arguments that everyone has already proven wrong. Let’s review.

Lie #1: You claim people want Legendaries to be easier to obtain.
The True Story: We want to make Legendaries harder to obtain, because they’re too common as is. Adding skill-check elements would do that without further upping the grind.

Lie #2: You claim that a new system would require an extreme amount of work.
The True Story: The existing system could easily be molded into a quest-based system with just a handful of NPCs scattered around Tyria. The fact that not even that much effort was put into Legendaries indicates that the system was not given nearly enough thought, and is not as strong as it should be.

Lie #3: You claim the devs don’t want to change the way that Legendaries are obtained.
The True Story: The devs have admitted they’re not satisfied with the existing system, which is why they’re going to be working on the scavenger hunt.

Lie #4: You claim that people who don’t like the game as it is are just complaining for the sake of whining.
The True Story: While some will always complain just to complain, most of the people complaining about Legendaries are, in fact, being extremely considerate and productive in trying to offer solutions, whereas the ones who don’t think they need changing are generally the ones being rude.

I don’t mind if people disagree with changing the system, but you have to do so in a productive manner, i.e. not claiming that everyone who disagrees with you is whining and not worth listening to. Other people have been able to disagree without being rude and dismissive. If you can’t do that, you don’t belong here.

TheDaiBish.9735:

• Reduce resouce grind
• Add more Achievement requirements (All dungeon paths, all jumping puzzles, all mini-dungeons, all meta events ect) so that the Resource / Achievement ratio is about 50:50.
• Add story elements during the creation process (i.e. The only person that can forge the Gift of whatever is hidden deep in the Flame Temple Tombs, the Gift of whatever can only be forged in Mount Maelstrom) and then a final ‘quest’ to add the ‘power’ to it (i.e. You ned to go to Balthazar’s temple, pray, and then defeat the spirit of Vinnie Jones).
• Add lore to it (i.e. Juggernaut was the hammer of Balthazar and contains a drop of Vinnie Jone’s soul).

That´s a great start!

I would actually add general “time achievements” into the whole equation too.
Something like making 3, 6 (9 even) monthly achievements and a number of Dailies, say a 100(200?).

So it´s basically a reward for playing the frikken game, not buying yourself into it with stupid levels of grind or actual “cheating” by buying Gems and through AH shenanigans.

I find it fun, a lot of people do not. However this is why originally Legendary items were ONLY cosmetic. It was unnecessary for gameplay, so people who didn’t want to grind didn’t have to, and people who liked the grind had something to grind for – trying to make everyone happy and all.

But if you want to complain about grind that your angst should be directed at Ascended items, not legendaries.

One of the biggest issues is that the only really legendary looking weapons are Dusk and Dawn. Most of the rest are simply decent looking skins with no interesting effects. There’s also the problem that 2H weapons and 1H weapons all require the same effort but you need 2 1H weapons to make a set so it requires twice the effort.

My biggest gripe with legendaries is that they are pure grind. They aren’t gained by actually accomplishing anything other than standing in front of the TP and/or MF. You can literally buy yourself a legendary weapon. That’s the worst kind of implementation they could possibly do.

Why don’t legendaries require accomplishments in all aspects of the game? You could make it just as grindy and difficult but with far more variety. There should be no gold requirement at all. Base it all on karma, dungeon tokens, world exploration, fractal currency, achievement points, and possibly even wvw currency. You should have to actually play the game. This would be far more “legendary” and far more fun.

The idea behind the legendary was, if you play the game very well, all over the place and for a long time, you will be able to get a legendary. YOU make it a grind because you are making it a goal instead of letting it happen naturally. That is all sir.

That video was a wonderful example of bad game design.

Ruan Jacobz.1398:

The idea behind the legendary was, if you play the game very well, all over the place and for a long time,

And the idea has failed on all these accounts.
Totally unexpected it seems.
Like people grinding in MMO´s was completely unheard of a concept for the ones at ANet coming up with Legendary requirements.

But fanbois will always white-knight for ANet, even if the Devs themselves have (very much to their credit) acknowledged these deficiencies and promised to mitigate them.

HawkMeister.4758:

That´s a great start!

I would actually add general “time achievements” into the whole equation too.
Something like making 3, 6 (9 even) monthly achievements and a number of Dailies, say a 100(200?).

So it´s basically a reward for playing the frikken game, not buying yourself into it with stupid levels of grind or actual “cheating” by buying Gems and through AH shenanigans.

Well, we’ll have Laurels soon. Make a particular resource only buy-able with them.

Ruan Jacobz.1398:

The idea behind the legendary was, if you play the game very well, all over the place and for a long time, you will be able to get a legendary. YOU make it a grind because you are making it a goal instead of letting it happen naturally. That is all sir.

I’d argue the idea was to show off your accomplishments.

However, even if that was the idea behind them:

• You only require one dungeon multiple times.
• Most materials are from higher level areas (Ori, Ancient Wood, Icy Runestones, Obsidian Shards ect), meaning if you want to get them for yourself, then you got to stay in them areas.

The only way you need to go all over the place is for World Completion.

Grind? RNG? Time to go compare to Korean MMOs that get way more repetitive, specially when it comes down to upgrading equipment for some. Guild Wars 2 has little grind effort imo and it’s easy just running COF path 1 for gold, but then again, not many folks want to do one thing for hours. Icy Runestones and Charged lodestones is all I need and it took me only a month to get the rest done so far just grinding. Reason why? Because I LIKE it and it was my decision. It may not be the best form of grind for others, but what can you expect from every game? Candy? No.

Every game has it’s form of grind, people are just against the ways legendary weapons are obtained in this game because they think legendary to be 1/1000 people to have one.

Ruan Jacobz.1398:

The idea behind the legendary was, if you play the game very well, all over the place and for a long time, you will be able to get a legendary. YOU make it a grind because you are making it a goal instead of letting it happen naturally. That is all sir.

But the problem, and the reason why some players like me have been so heated against legendary weapons is this. When you see a player walking around with a legendary you think:
“Woah, he’s got Frostfang. That must mean he mined his rear end off, killed far too many Ice Elementals (amongst other things), and did HotW a lot, and had some pretty insane luck. Either that or he has a mountain of gold.”

What players are not saying though is:
“Woah, he’s got Frostfang. That must mean he located the Hidden lore of Frost, killed the Frost Reaver, he got to Frostfang and killed it to get the direwolf’s tooth. He collected all ten undying shards in the ice caverns and outlasted the Element of Frost’s challenge. He completed the entire deeper caverns, meaning he did the dire jumps, got the three freezing sickles within the time limit, defeated Gharr’s minions, and outran Gharr to enchant the tooth of Frostfang. Finally, completing the three sickle’s rituals at the end of each HotW expl paths.”

Which of these two sound more epic and befitting a weapon worth calling itself legendary?

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

garraeth.3267:

You can grind until your fingertips bleed.

Or you can be smart about it and have your legendary…well, last week.

Or, just forget the whole legendary stuff and do something fun instead ^^

On a less flippant note (sorry, I was being flippant in my op), this ^^, very much as well.

If working towards legendary is not fun, or too frustrating, don’t bother.

Also, one of my worries about getting a legendary was: “after I get it, will I still want to play GW2?”. I had no idea. The cool thing is that — so far — the answer for me is “yes”.

Again with this?

There is no such thing as a legendary “grind” because you’re not meant to grind them, you’re meant to save for them in the very long run – infact, legendaries are merely aesthetic so I don’t see why one would want to grind them.
Also, if they didn’t require a lot of time to aquire they would lose the point of being legendaries.

If you decide to grind 25 hours a day for something that’s just aesthetic you’re really messed up.

Using the mystic forge is just another form of gambling. and it’s quite sick to bring this into the game. This game should be rated for over 18s and we are in fact stopping our kids from playing it because of that reason.
Fact is: The only thing left to do now in Guild Wars is to make a legendary or get ascended gear…both which are an extended boring grind.
If the new patch does not address these concerns and give us some decent content (more than 1 lvl 80 area with 6 ori locations and endlessly repetitive events that yield less and less decent loot as they combat bots), GW2 is headed for the toilet and I’m not sticking around for the smell….