Guild Wars 2

“The problem with Guild Wars 2”

Kevan.8912:

Amiron.1067:

ANet needs to produce higher quality content if they want to keep me around and spending money on gems.

they need to produce content
because for now i see grind and tiers. not contents

It’s a bit harsh to say they haven’t been producing anything at all. It’s just that what they’ve been producing is content that is easily forgettable and, on top of that, temporary.

We need new skills, new professions, more horizontal progression, new armor and weapons to obtain (cosmetic wise) and better stories instead of the Scarlet joke we have now.

I like where is game atm,waithing for future updates.

//The above in memes//

*So Dev vs. So grind
*Much wow vs. Much troll
*Many living story vs. Many other mmo

just trying to keep this alive here.

To be honest? I am rather disinterested in playing. The only reason I’m around is because my fiance got her first gaming laptop, and this is the first thing she wanted to play with me.

I’ve been playing since not too long before this game’s release, and for the longest time I actually quite enjoyed this game. I was part of a guild, making friends, doing dungeons. I’m not sure what changed, but now I could care less about what’s left once you’re 80. The WvW/PvP is stuff I’ve never been interested in, even since the days of EverQuest (‘tis simply not for me, I must say). The legendaries and ascended gear are pretty, and I do enjoy the stats, but the time it takes doesn’t fit into my lifestyle in the slightest. Even if I wasn’t doing anything, I still wouldn’t go for it.

The “living story” stuff was fine at first, but this model of doing things just makes it feel like nothing has changed. I’ve spent the last couple months logging in basically to just stare at my characters for a few minutes, run circles around LA, and log back out again. Now that I’m back because of my fiance, I enjoy playing with her, but after she logs off I just kind of sit around thinking, “Hmmm… I think I have vacuuming to do,” instead of “MAN I SHOULD TOTALLY HUNKER DOWN AND GET SOME kitten DONE CRACKAAAAA. DUNGEONS? CHECK. FARMING GOLD? CHECK. HARASSING STRANGERS IN WVW? CHECK.”

I am still anticipating the changes they are bringing, but I’m not exactly holding my breath.

Sanala.7638:

To be honest? I am rather disinterested in playing. The only reason I’m around is because my fiance got her first gaming laptop, and this is the first thing she wanted to play with me.

Don’t see anything wrong with any of this. So long as you enjoy doing stuff with her in here, it’s all cool with me. And it’s cool if you leave because she found another game to enjoy.

I’ll be sure to kill your shares of asura . . . I mean charr . . . I mean, er, foul dragonspawn after you’re gone

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Don’t see anything wrong with any of this. So long as you enjoy doing stuff with her in here, it’s all cool with me. And it’s cool if you leave because she found another game to enjoy.

I’ll be sure to kill your shares of asura . . . I mean charr . . . I mean, er, foul dragonspawn after you’re gone

It’s true, in the end it isn’t bad or good, it just is. I really want GW2 to be something, anything more than what else is out there on the market. a

WELL HUNTY, MAYBE I AIN’T DONE KILLIN’ YET. Although that would be rather kind of you… <3.

Sanala.7638:

It’s true, in the end it isn’t bad or good, it just is. I really want GW2 to be something, anything more than what else is out there on the market.

I really do too. I am hopeful it will start moving that way during their break from Living World material and in the wake of the CDIs.

How do I feel about GW2 right now..? I haven’t played once since the last update. That’s how I feel about GW2 right now and it feels great.

narrock.6890:

Jski.6180:

I think the forums have gotten them self into a situation where they can be called out for asking for something and then getting it and then complain about the very thing they asked for.

what have we gotten that we asked for we asked for progression got a insane grind for BIS gear, we asked to help even the playing field in wvw for servers wither lower pop we got bloodlust back, we asked for fractal to be fun they make dredge EVEN WORSE that’s not what people want. its misinterpretation of the problem and making it worse.

NO the forms asked for gear that was not much stronger they also wanted something to work for and to have something that can majorly drop. That is the new gear for you if they where too strong you would be singing a different toon kitten ing them for making too strong of gear. Open field fights for out number was AC and other wvw weapons but they where made to deal with ppl and something that would have an impact in a fight so ppl did not wish to counter this and they asked for them to be nerfed so now numbers will still win a fight some of the time. Most ppl hated blood lust and felt it was too much. Fractal was adding in the old LS that was ASKED to be replay and that how you replay that keeps in line with the story.

No has nothing to do with misinterpretation its that ppl on these forums have no idea what unintentional consequences are and only think in the moment of what they want NOW. If you cant get a item you want you become obsessed with that one item and before trying to work on getting it ppl are more likely to come on the forums and ask for it to be easier to obtain. And that just what your doing in your post.

Great game. Ground-breaking start. Very noble manifesto. Beautiful ambition.
Addictive PvP gameplay (regardless of balance)

Mediocre feedback-gathering. Laughable communication within the company.

Poor execution of patches following its glorious 2012 Q4. At some point, this game is barely recognizable as Guild Wars 2 because it has branched too far away from its predecessor.

This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone

Ferik.3127:

Great game. Ground-breaking start. Very noble manifesto. Beautiful ambition.
Addictive PvP gameplay (regardless of balance)

Mediocre feedback-gathering. Laughable communication within the company.

Poor execution of patches following its glorious 2012 Q4. At some point, this game is barely recognizable as Guild Wars 2 because it has branched too far away from its predecessor.

This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone

Lines like it’s disappointing everyone are demonstrably wrong. Are you saying no one in this thread likes the game and enjoys it. Because barring me and other long term players who like the game, there are people who don’t usually post here who have said they like the game.

So when people use wording like disappointing everyone, it does nothing to further their point of view. It only makes them look like they think their opinion is what everyone is feeling.

This is clearly not the case.

Vayne.8563:

Ferik.3127:

Great game. Ground-breaking start. Very noble manifesto. Beautiful ambition.
Addictive PvP gameplay (regardless of balance)

Mediocre feedback-gathering. Laughable communication within the company.

Poor execution of patches following its glorious 2012 Q4. At some point, this game is barely recognizable as Guild Wars 2 because it has branched too far away from its predecessor.

This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone

Lines like it’s disappointing everyone are demonstrably wrong. Are you saying no one in this thread likes the game and enjoys it. Because barring me and other long term players who like the game, there are people who don’t usually post here who have said they like the game.

So when people use wording like disappointing everyone, it does nothing to further their point of view. It only makes them look like they think their opinion is what everyone is feeling.

This is clearly not the case.

I supposed I have offended you, even if it is not my intention, then?

By the way, I am still playing this game on a daily basis, so~I guess you can accuse me of being another hater but it does no good to your ANet-supporting-reputation.
Like I said first and foremost this game is great so even if makes every decision wrong it is still better than League of Legends or World of Warcraft in my mind.
Just listen to the Norn theme music, behold the vista of Hoelbrak, and walk The Grove & explore it. Scarlet’s LS is poorly told but look at all those machine designs. All these are genius works, there is simply no need to praise them because they are simply beyond praising.

Because I believe the Guild Wars franchise has always been aiming for somewhere much higher than any of its rival does. Because I know Guild Wars doesn’t need 1 more praising. This game is supposed to be the changer of no MMO, but ALL video game industry. It cannot be content of being “an okay game”, which it is now.

What about you, a fellow believer? Are you content with where our game is currently at or do you want to be somewhere higher?

I’m burnt out from wvw. I don’t enjoy pvping, but only doing it for the glory. I didnt even bother with the wintersday living story. I guess I can wait a little longer, it seems like they’re saying March is when the real deal patches are rolling out and the “expansion content” will soon follow after.

Jski.6180:

narrock.6890:

Jski.6180:

I think the forums have gotten them self into a situation where they can be called out for asking for something and then getting it and then complain about the very thing they asked for.

what have we gotten that we asked for we asked for progression got a insane grind for BIS gear, we asked to help even the playing field in wvw for servers wither lower pop we got bloodlust back, we asked for fractal to be fun they make dredge EVEN WORSE that’s not what people want. its misinterpretation of the problem and making it worse.

NO the forms asked for gear that was not much stronger they also wanted something to work for and to have something that can majorly drop. That is the new gear for you if they where too strong you would be singing a different toon kitten ing them for making too strong of gear. Open field fights for out number was AC and other wvw weapons but they where made to deal with ppl and something that would have an impact in a fight so ppl did not wish to counter this and they asked for them to be nerfed so now numbers will still win a fight some of the time. Most ppl hated blood lust and felt it was too much. Fractal was adding in the old LS that was ASKED to be replay and that how you replay that keeps in line with the story.

No has nothing to do with misinterpretation its that ppl on these forums have no idea what unintentional consequences are and only think in the moment of what they want NOW. If you cant get a item you want you become obsessed with that one item and before trying to work on getting it ppl are more likely to come on the forums and ask for it to be easier to obtain. And that just what your doing in your post.

1: Ok one that first part you proved my point not yours
2 in the second part you brought something unrelated to anything or i said to insult me and others. I never ONCE mentioned getting that one item easy and, not wanting to work for it.

Ferik.3127:

Vayne.8563:

Ferik.3127:

Great game. Ground-breaking start. Very noble manifesto. Beautiful ambition.
Addictive PvP gameplay (regardless of balance)

Mediocre feedback-gathering. Laughable communication within the company.

Poor execution of patches following its glorious 2012 Q4. At some point, this game is barely recognizable as Guild Wars 2 because it has branched too far away from its predecessor.

This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone

Lines like it’s disappointing everyone are demonstrably wrong. Are you saying no one in this thread likes the game and enjoys it. Because barring me and other long term players who like the game, there are people who don’t usually post here who have said they like the game.

So when people use wording like disappointing everyone, it does nothing to further their point of view. It only makes them look like they think their opinion is what everyone is feeling.

This is clearly not the case.

I supposed I have offended you, even if it is not my intention, then?

By the way, I am still playing this game on a daily basis, so~I guess you can accuse me of being another hater but it does no good to your ANet-supporting-reputation.
Like I said first and foremost this game is great so even if makes every decision wrong it is still better than League of Legends or World of Warcraft in my mind.
Just listen to the Norn theme music, behold the vista of Hoelbrak, and walk The Grove & explore it. Scarlet’s LS is poorly told but look at all those machine designs. All these are genius works, there is simply no need to praise them because they are simply beyond praising.

Because I believe the Guild Wars franchise has always been aiming for somewhere much higher than any of its rival does. Because I know Guild Wars doesn’t need 1 more praising. This game is supposed to be the changer of no MMO, but ALL video game industry. It cannot be content of being “an okay game”, which it is now.

What about you, a fellow believer? Are you content with where our game is currently at or do you want to be somewhere higher?

You made a statement that is directly and demonstrably not true. That statement doesn’t offend me. I’m simply pointing out the wording is wrong.

I’m enjoying the game. Games can ALWAYS be better. EVERY game can be better. Therefore Guild Wars 2 can be better.

Am I 100% satisfied with everything in this game? Well no. I’m not satisfied that I can’t sort armor by type on the trading post. That’s one example. It’s not game breaking, but it is inconvenient.

I am a believer, but I’m also a realist. I know that games like MMOs take years to hit their stride and get to where they can be. I’m patient, that’s the difference.

There’s not enough content for every play style. There’s not enough build variety. The way stories are delivered needs improvment…but I also see that stuff improving…it’s just not improving fast enough for some people.

So if I come to the forums and express negativity, particularly misstated negativity, then I’m not doing the game any favors. There’s already enough negativity here. A new player might come here, see all the negativity and draw the wrong conclusion.

Do you really think more complaining will make this game stronger? Cause I don’t.

Vayne.8563:

You made a statement that is directly and demonstrably not true.

Would you be willing to demonstrate that not everyone has experienced some disappointment regarding GW2 ?

Vayne.8563:

Do you really think more complaining will make this game stronger? Cause I don’t.

This is a valid point, and it’s worth pointing out.

Feedback like that is one thing, saying “I don’t like this, or that” is useful to the people polling the forums for opinions. It’s useful for the developers to take a pie chart of “who’s satisfied with the game” and show it as part of a presentation. It doesn’t necessarily help them out in fixing anything, because it offers only one detail – you’re unhappy with Feature X.

Feedback going “I don’t like this and here is why” is more useful, since they can read it and understand what they did and you don’t like, and have one possible thing to fix in order to please you and people who share your opinion on Feature X. And if people actually want to add to what about Feature X they don’t like, then the nice people who can actually do something about it may be able to . . . well . . . fix it.

Feedback going “I think this game is awesome as it is” is just as unhelpful as the first group. I’m sure they’re all very happy you’re enjoying their game and are having fun. But if you don’t place any opinions on what you like and why it’s just as good for the pie chart as “I think this game stinks on ice like a icy BM”.

If you hate the game and want it to die, fine. That’s your prerogative as a consumer who purchased it. If you love the game and don’t have a problem with it? That’s awesome, keep playing and I’ll see you sometime. If you hate the game and want it better . . . or if you love the game and want to improve it?

Start posting something to help them understand why instead of just how disappointed/happy/upset/adoring/livid/supportive you are.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

You made a statement that is directly and demonstrably not true.

Would you be willing to demonstrate that not everyone has experienced some disappointment regarding GW2 ?

The direct statement was that everyone was disappointed. I am not disapponted which means not everyone is disappointed. Therefore it’s not a true statement.

At very least it would have to be changed to everyone but Vayne. But I know at least a dozen people who aren’t disappointed, so therefore it would have to be changed further and frankly, what are the odds that I know every single person who’s not disappointed.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to defend here…it’s a pretty simple statement. It’s demonstrably untrue.

Look, I usually find Vayne’s blind devotion to the game annoying, but on this point, you really can’t argue with him.
“Disappointing everyone” is a generalisation. You are stating that everybody playing the game is disappointed by it.
You really cannot prove this, and you cannot speak for others.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

You made a statement that is directly and demonstrably not true.

Would you be willing to demonstrate that not everyone has experienced some disappointment regarding GW2 ?

I’m more than happy to tell you that I’m not disappointed by GW2. I’ll get Vayne to point it out so he can demonstrate it.

Vayne.8563:

The direct statement was that everyone was disappointed.

That is not actually, “the direct statement.”

You have expressed disappointment with aspects of the game on these boards in the past.

If you are going to claim that something is demonstrably false…demonstrate the falsehood. Personally I have yet to interact with anyone, even some pretty hardcore fans of the game, who have not experienced some degree of dissatisfaction with some aspect of the game. I’ve yet to meet anyone, even some pretty hardcore fans of the game, who found it to be absolutely perfect, lacking in any faults whatsoever.

zenleto.6179:

I’m more than happy to tell you that I’m not disappointed by GW2. I’ll get Vayne to point it out so he can demonstrate it.

You have never been disappointed in any way by anything in game ? The individual who brought up disappointment did not claim disappointment with the game as a whole, merely that people experienced disappointment.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The direct statement was that everyone was disappointed.

That is not actually, “the direct statement.”

You have expressed disappointment with aspects of the game on these boards in the past.

If you are going to claim that something is demonstrably false…demonstrate the falsehood. Personally I have yet to interact with anyone, even some pretty hardcore fans of the game, who have not experienced some degree of dissatisfaction with some aspect of the game. I’ve yet to meet anyone, even some pretty hardcore fans of the game, who found it to be absolutely perfect, lacking in any faults whatsoever.

zenleto.6179:

I’m more than happy to tell you that I’m not disappointed by GW2. I’ll get Vayne to point it out so he can demonstrate it.

You have never been disappointed in any way by anything in game ? The individual who brought up disappointment did not claim disappointment with the game as a whole, merely that people experienced disappointment.

And that isn’t something specified by the original poster in his post. He appeared to lump everyone into a disappointed group. Now that you’re going into specifics then yes, I have been disappointed by an introduced feature of the game (no, not Ascended), but I’m not disappointed by the game in general.

zenleto.6179:

Now that you’re going into specifics then yes, I have been disappointed by an introduced feature of the game (no, not Ascended), but I’m not disappointed by the game in general.

This is where I stand as well (with the exception that Ascended is one of my points of disappointment). Much of the game is some of the best of its type that I have ever seen, certain specific aspects are disappointing.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The direct statement was that everyone was disappointed.

That is not actually, “the direct statement.”

You have expressed disappointment with aspects of the game on these boards in the past.

If you are going to claim that something is demonstrably false…demonstrate the falsehood. Personally I have yet to interact with anyone, even some pretty hardcore fans of the game, who have not experienced some degree of dissatisfaction with some aspect of the game. I’ve yet to meet anyone, even some pretty hardcore fans of the game, who found it to be absolutely perfect, lacking in any faults whatsoever.

zenleto.6179:

I’m more than happy to tell you that I’m not disappointed by GW2. I’ll get Vayne to point it out so he can demonstrate it.

You have never been disappointed in any way by anything in game ? The individual who brought up disappointment did not claim disappointment with the game as a whole, merely that people experienced disappointment.

The poster implied over all disappointment. More he implied disappointment based on the path Anet was taking concerning trying to please every body. He linked this as cause and effect.

I’ve never, to my knowledge, been disappointed in the game because Anet is trying to please everyone. Possibly because I’m into so many things that anything they do is going to hit part of my play style.

Vayne.8563:

The poster implied over all disappointment.

There is a rather large difference between him implying something and you choosing to infer something. A statement referring to addictive gameplay seems like a fairly solid counter to a claim of implied, “overall,” disappointment.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The poster implied over all disappointment.

There is a rather large difference between him implying something and you choosing to infer something. A statement referring to addictive gameplay seems like a fairly solid counter to a claim of implied, “overall,” disappointment.

You really are arguing just to argue at this point. Here then is the exact quote:

“This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone”

I’m not inferring anything here. He’s linking a cause and affect I don’t agree with. I don’t think trying to please everyone will cause disappointment in everyone PERIOD. There’s nothing else to discuss.

Right now? I don’t feel anything. After playing since launch almost every night I was home, this weekend just passed, I stopped playing. I’ve had enough. I’m waiting for the next subscription MMO to come out because I’m sick of spending more money on gems than I would on a subscription and only getting half the enjoyment out of it.

So many little things just built up over time until I realised I was actually starting to resent the game. The main culprit? Ascended tier.

I might be back, I hope that when I do, my animosity toward the game has gone. I think there’s more chance that something more interesting will take it’s place.

What Guildwars2 was during release and What it is now? During release it was Fresh/Undiscovered and People where finding “new” things that was engaging.

What it is now?, a chewing gum that is fighting against loosing it’s flavor and is on an effort to revitalize it through a living story. (which is good, i want that karka shell back peice that i will never get coz i missed it!, but hey i got liadri.. that new players will/may not see ever again!).

All other MMO’s eventually gets to the chewing gum with lost flavor, guild wars is fighting back.. Many loose out on flavor, i hope this one does not “Sour” out in the process of keeping flavor “up”. Drastic Changes can kill a suitable Player base that were “used” to what Guildwars2 offered for a time (MF farming andKarma Farming for instance)

Guides that were created -6 months ago with Easy Crafting, Easy Node farming, Easy Karma and Easy Gold. Definitely, are Nerf’ed in Everyway. But, there is always someone finding a way around it (eventually, Nerf again)

What i really like that ANET did – Adapting the gw2LFG tool, into the game. They are definitely listening to the right stuffs and i hope they make the world boss indicator also like the scarlet mission indicators. (Don’t kill me, i feel making life easy is good)

What i feel should go away, for chewing gum to not sour.

Dungeons-

~ Kill the Speed run’s and Sell Path. (Sell Path Seriously?? , aren’t you looking at this??)
~ Promote guild runs for dungeons (Add a Crit buff when all are guildies, improve rewards based on duration in the guild- Loyalty?)
~ People with Less Achievement points are not getting into dungeons (this will kill your new player base!) Add a special Award/Buff when newbs are mentored! This will ensure while people are new they will have some kind of advantage to add along with Veterans..
~ Give Story Completion something Interesting (T-6 Mats please!)

Solo/ World Completion help-

How about rewarding some “T-6 Materials” in exchange for 1 silver and a few copper for “Hearts” and Dynamic Events. Seriously, getting 1 silver 90 copper after clearing a bandit camp , and then reaching level 80 multiple times on many chars should have sufficient T-6 Mats..

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The poster implied over all disappointment.

There is a rather large difference between him implying something and you choosing to infer something. A statement referring to addictive gameplay seems like a fairly solid counter to a claim of implied, “overall,” disappointment.

You really are arguing just to argue at this point. Here then is the exact quote:

“This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone”

I’m not inferring anything here. He’s linking a cause and affect I don’t agree with. I don’t think trying to please everyone will cause disappointment in everyone PERIOD. There’s nothing else to discuss.

He was making a rather obviously generalized statement, and one tends to be true most of the time. Trying to simultaneously satisfy groups of people with completely opposite preferences is unlikely to succeed without some degree of disappointment/dissatisfaction from at least one side. You even attempt to debunk his statement as false based on your own lack of disappointment, yet contradict your own claim by stating aspects of the game you are clearly disappointed with.

I still like the game, and enjoy playing, but I am definitely very disappointed with quite a few aspects of it. Probably more so than many others, but I find it unlikely that you will find anyone that is not disappointed by at least one aspect of the game. Even if there is just one minor area you feel should be better, that is by definition, disappointment.

mrstealth.6701:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The poster implied over all disappointment.

There is a rather large difference between him implying something and you choosing to infer something. A statement referring to addictive gameplay seems like a fairly solid counter to a claim of implied, “overall,” disappointment.

You really are arguing just to argue at this point. Here then is the exact quote:

“This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone”

I’m not inferring anything here. He’s linking a cause and affect I don’t agree with. I don’t think trying to please everyone will cause disappointment in everyone PERIOD. There’s nothing else to discuss.

He was making a rather obviously generalized statement, and one tends to be true most of the time. Trying to simultaneously satisfy groups of people with completely opposite preferences is unlikely to succeed without some degree of disappointment/dissatisfaction from at least one side. You even attempt to debunk his statement as false based on your own lack of disappointment, yet contradict your own claim by stating aspects of the game you are clearly disappointed with.

I still like the game, and enjoy playing, but I am definitely very disappointed with quite a few aspects of it. Probably more so than many others, but I find it unlikely that you will find anyone that is not disappointed by at least one aspect of the game. Even if there is just one minor area you feel should be better, that is by definition, disappointment.

Still not my point though. He specifically linked two things. Making a game for everyone and people being disappointed because Anet is doing it. You can play the everyone has some disappointment somewhere card, but most people will not read that statement and understand it that way. It’s bad communication at best, completely wrong at worst. It should be rephrased or it will turn off anyone who doesn’t feel disappointment.

There are plenty of people who play this game casually who aren’t disappointed, because they play it casually. They don’t have enough time to be disappointed. These debates fly under their radar. They don’t bother questioning if the game can be better.

Debating me for saying that something that was said is obviously untrue, even if you can fiddle it to make it true only illustrates my point. It’s bad wording. If it’s not what he meant, it should be reworded. I certainly took it that way and I’m pretty sure that a good percentage of people will take it the way I did.

Vayne.8563:

mrstealth.6701:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The poster implied over all disappointment.

There is a rather large difference between him implying something and you choosing to infer something. A statement referring to addictive gameplay seems like a fairly solid counter to a claim of implied, “overall,” disappointment.

You really are arguing just to argue at this point. Here then is the exact quote:

“This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone”

I’m not inferring anything here. He’s linking a cause and affect I don’t agree with. I don’t think trying to please everyone will cause disappointment in everyone PERIOD. There’s nothing else to discuss.

He was making a rather obviously generalized statement, and one tends to be true most of the time. Trying to simultaneously satisfy groups of people with completely opposite preferences is unlikely to succeed without some degree of disappointment/dissatisfaction from at least one side. You even attempt to debunk his statement as false based on your own lack of disappointment, yet contradict your own claim by stating aspects of the game you are clearly disappointed with.

I still like the game, and enjoy playing, but I am definitely very disappointed with quite a few aspects of it. Probably more so than many others, but I find it unlikely that you will find anyone that is not disappointed by at least one aspect of the game. Even if there is just one minor area you feel should be better, that is by definition, disappointment.

Still not my point though. He specifically linked two things. Making a game for everyone and people being disappointed because Anet is doing it. You can play the everyone has some disappointment somewhere card, but most people will not read that statement and understand it that way. It’s bad communication at best, completely wrong at worst. It should be rephrased or it will turn off anyone who doesn’t feel disappointment.

There are plenty of people who play this game casually who aren’t disappointed, because they play it casually. They don’t have enough time to be disappointed. These debates fly under their radar. They don’t bother questioning if the game can be better.

Debating me for saying that something that was said is obviously untrue, even if you can fiddle it to make it true only illustrates my point. It’s bad wording. If it’s not what he meant, it should be reworded. I certainly took it that way and I’m pretty sure that a good percentage of people will take it the way I did.

I think you’re taking your point a bit too far. It was clearly a generalisation and not necessarily to be taken as a literal truth. And, as generalisations go, I’d say it was pretty accurate. Of course some people are happy, and some will be disappointed no matter what ANet do. But I think it’s very fair to say that in trying to please everyone, ANet has sort of been unable to narrow its focus enough to really make any one thing shine. This is, and always is, the problem of trying to please everyone. It’s practically unavoidable.

Both of you have valid points, but I think for the sake of being picky, this point has gone too far now.

CrossedHorse.4261:

Vayne.8563:

mrstealth.6701:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The poster implied over all disappointment.

There is a rather large difference between him implying something and you choosing to infer something. A statement referring to addictive gameplay seems like a fairly solid counter to a claim of implied, “overall,” disappointment.

You really are arguing just to argue at this point. Here then is the exact quote:

“This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone”

I’m not inferring anything here. He’s linking a cause and affect I don’t agree with. I don’t think trying to please everyone will cause disappointment in everyone PERIOD. There’s nothing else to discuss.

He was making a rather obviously generalized statement, and one tends to be true most of the time. Trying to simultaneously satisfy groups of people with completely opposite preferences is unlikely to succeed without some degree of disappointment/dissatisfaction from at least one side. You even attempt to debunk his statement as false based on your own lack of disappointment, yet contradict your own claim by stating aspects of the game you are clearly disappointed with.

I still like the game, and enjoy playing, but I am definitely very disappointed with quite a few aspects of it. Probably more so than many others, but I find it unlikely that you will find anyone that is not disappointed by at least one aspect of the game. Even if there is just one minor area you feel should be better, that is by definition, disappointment.

Still not my point though. He specifically linked two things. Making a game for everyone and people being disappointed because Anet is doing it. You can play the everyone has some disappointment somewhere card, but most people will not read that statement and understand it that way. It’s bad communication at best, completely wrong at worst. It should be rephrased or it will turn off anyone who doesn’t feel disappointment.

There are plenty of people who play this game casually who aren’t disappointed, because they play it casually. They don’t have enough time to be disappointed. These debates fly under their radar. They don’t bother questioning if the game can be better.

Debating me for saying that something that was said is obviously untrue, even if you can fiddle it to make it true only illustrates my point. It’s bad wording. If it’s not what he meant, it should be reworded. I certainly took it that way and I’m pretty sure that a good percentage of people will take it the way I did.

I think you’re taking your point a bit too far. It was clearly a generalisation and not necessarily to be taken as a literal truth. And, as generalisations go, I’d say it was pretty accurate. Of course some people are happy, and some will be disappointed no matter what ANet do. But I think it’s very fair to say that in trying to please everyone, ANet has sort of been unable to narrow its focus enough to really make any one thing shine. This is, and always is, the problem of trying to please everyone. It’s practically unavoidable.

Both of you have valid points, but I think for the sake of being picky, this point has gone too far now.

Okay, let’s look at the opposite point of view. Let’s pretend that Anet didn’t try to please everyone and instead focused on one segment of the community. So they did that and not enough people played the game and not enough money was made to continue making updates. Would that percentage of the playerbase then be happy that Anet made that decision?

The problem is, it’s very easy to say something like the company is trying to please everyone, but that’s what a themepark MMO really needs to do. It’s got a huge overhead, and it needs a whole lot of players in game to keep this game running. In fact the game is designed around having tons of players in game.

If they make decisions to keep players they’re doing it for the benefit of the game, even if some people leave because they’re doing it.

There is a reason that, “you can’t please all of the people all of the time,” is a truism. Different people like different things. Doing one thing, even if only for a little while, will delight some people while disappointing others. Then the others will get something they like while still another group is disappointed until its their turn. Until a game development studio has access to nigh unlimited resources they will disappoint people with everything they do. The goal shouldn’t even be to avoid disappointing people, it should be to please more people than they disappoint.

Disappointment doesn’t mean, “hates the game.” It can be as trivial as not getting what you want out of a given BLC or Teq’s chest this time. It can be dissatisfaction with the current SPvP meta for a while and so playing WvW instead. It can be dislike for the current living story arc and so waiting for the next.

and so on.

The game was actually very fun from the start and the improvements that were put in to the game is quite phenomenal for this past few months. Having to play this game without sub fees is incredible.

However, one thing i do feel though that this game lack is that ArenaNet is playing their cards way too safe.

Game is getting stale and old fashion. Wvw is about zerg force, max coverage server and this game is all about stacking stacking stacking. It is getting absolutely stupid and boring. Wvw is alot of running running.

It is high time arenanet put their game into the next level.

1. Give us at least land Mounts to play and collect. At least they are usefull in wvw.
2. Open world pvp environment. The game is getting way too safe and boring. There is no thrill or tension. At least if ArenaNet is planning to make an expansion, please please, create an open world pvx environment. I can assure you, this would make the game challenging and fun.
3.Eliminate this stacking mechanism gameplay on this game which is starting to make this game look so dumb and boring. People are stacking in wvw, dungeons and fractals all the time.
4. Balance WvW where the amount of players from each server are able to get in equally. Or in other words, try eliminate having one server being able to enter as one big zerg into wvw while other servers dont have the coverage. Have equal amounts of wvwers on wvw maps equally.
5. 5man dungeon is getting old and boring. We need something more challenging and stimulating. Weekly raid dungeons. 10man or 15 man dungeons would be great fun.

I am pretty sure by doing this, you are going to attract a whole lot of bunch people back into this game.

Ashen.2907:

There is a reason that, “you can’t please all of the people all of the time,” is a truism. Different people like different things. Doing one thing, even if only for a little while, will delight some people while disappointing others. Then the others will get something they like while still another group is disappointed until its their turn. Until a game development studio has access to nigh unlimited resources they will disappoint people with everything they do. The goal shouldn’t even be to avoid disappointing people, it should be to please more people than they disappoint.

Disappointment doesn’t mean, “hates the game.” It can be as trivial as not getting what you want out of a given BLC or Teq’s chest this time. It can be dissatisfaction with the current SPvP meta for a while and so playing WvW instead. It can be dislike for the current living story arc and so waiting for the next.

and so on.

Sorry to say but I disagree with this statement. Take something like Disney World…which is oddly enough a themepark. Something themepark MMOs try to do.

Disneyworld provides myriad experiences for people who crave different things. If you’re a thrill ride seeker, you’re going to largely be disappointed with disney world. If you’re a person who only likes theater shows, you’re going to be disappointed.

But a percentage of people do a bit of everything and that’s what makes places like Disneyworld so successful. It’s a play where you have a bit of everything.

People seem to think most people prefer only one thing or two things, but some people like variety and Guild Wars 2, by making a game for everyone, is offering that variety. I’d wager there’s a fairly large segment of the population that likes to do different things.

So they do some PvE in the open world, some dungeons, some bosses, then jump int WvW for a while, play some minigames.

Saying something is a truism doesn’t make it a truism. It has some value, but you have to question that kind of statement further, because so many truisms have completely contradictory truisms.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder. Out of sight out of mind. Both of those things are considered truisms, but they directly contradict each other. Putting weight on truisms because people say them is intellectually dangerous.

Vayne.8563:

Sorry to say but I disagree with this statement. Take something like Disney World…which is oddly enough a themepark. Something themepark MMOs try to do.

Disneyworld provides myriad experiences for people who crave different things. If you’re a thrill ride seeker, you’re going to largely be disappointed with disney world. If you’re a person who only likes theater shows, you’re going to be disappointed.

But a percentage of people do a bit of everything and that’s what makes places like Disneyworld so successful. It’s a play where you have a bit of everything.

People seem to think most people prefer only one thing or two things, but some people like variety and Guild Wars 2, by making a game for everyone, is offering that variety. I’d wager there’s a fairly large segment of the population that likes to do different things.

So they do some PvE in the open world, some dungeons, some bosses, then jump int WvW for a while, play some minigames.

I never claimed that anyone would like only one, or even two, aspects of the game. “I’d wager,” that everyone in the game has some aspect that isn’t their thing.

To use your theme park analogy, I owned season passes for Disneyland for years. Have been to the park more times than I can accurately count. Still don’t like the tea cups ride.

Vayne.8563:

Saying something is a truism doesn’t make it a truism. It has some value, but you have to question that kind of statement further, because so many truisms have completely contradictory truisms.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder. Out of sight out of mind. Both of those things are considered truisms, but they directly contradict each other. Putting weight on truisms because people say them is intellectually dangerous.

Do you honestly think that it is possible to please everyone all of the time ? 100% of the people 100% of the time ? Can you name a single endeavor where this has happened ?

I still like the game, still find plenty to do and occupy my time, looking forward to the next LS update (to see how they end this story arc) and the major patch later this year while moving my primary focus from PvE to WvW, I see no problem for myself getting another year of game play out of GW2 maybe more depending on changes Anet makes in 2014.

I was feeling optimistic. Optimistic they might finally catch on and add some content with re-playability and enjoyment. (i.e. FUN PvP, GvG, Ranked GvG, Death Match etc) The collaborative CDI threads had me on a relative high, with the back and forth between player and developer.

Then when I started thinking about it, and saw the recent Interview with Colin…. Final LS ‘season one’ event finishes or starts on the 21st of March, or something like that. In which after taking a “short break” they’ll release a bigger content patch.

For someone invested primarily in PvP (WvW, TPvP)… That’s a long time to wait for nothing new.. and even then we may not get anything specific to PvP. So, my interest is probably going to fade really fast, really soon.

Additionally, I can literally quote the article… which essentially said something like.. “Oh yeah, WvW was full/the game population spiked during WvW Season 1… but we won’t do a Season 2 until we fix the current issues with WvW” – So, we’ll see Season 2 in 2017?

The Oceanic/SEA PvP community is pretty baron. I don’t pay for the game, so it’s no real skin off my back… just a shame that they’re so lax about PvP when this game has the metrics to be.. and should be great.

Player discontent is visible on the forums – but they’re forums. The silent and forever playing in-game player far outnumbers the forum user – and Arenanet will go off the statistical evidence that their game is doing fine, and take their time.

So, I would say I’m as dissatisfied as one can be for a product they don’t pay for.

The game offers something for everyone. I’m sure housing, guild halls, GvG, update to WvW, PvE/PvP crossover and new skills/weapons etc would make it a 10/10.

Ashen.2907:

Do you honestly think that it is possible to please everyone all of the time ? 100% of the people 100% of the time ? Can you name a single endeavor where this has happened ?

Of course I don’t. But I don’t believe in not trying to please the bulk of the population and the population is pretty varied in their tastes, generally speaking.

In other words, I don’t think Anet is doing the wrong thing by catering to different tastes, whether or not someone is dissatisfied by a single aspect. In fact, with a game with any significant overhead, I think they need to please as many people as possible. Narrowing your focus to one group isn’t going to do it.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Do you honestly think that it is possible to please everyone all of the time ? 100% of the people 100% of the time ? Can you name a single endeavor where this has happened ?

Of course I don’t. But I don’t believe in not trying to please the bulk of the population and the population is pretty varied in their tastes, generally speaking.

In other words, I don’t think Anet is doing the wrong thing by catering to different tastes, whether or not someone is dissatisfied by a single aspect. In fact, with a game with any significant overhead, I think they need to please as many people as possible. Narrowing your focus to one group isn’t going to do it.

what enrages me the most is that it’s their main audience (that of gw1 and manifesto) that now is not pleased.
they already got our money, and now chase a new kind of population that i’m sure brings them more money than the older.

good for anet. good for ppl that like this way.
bad for us.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Do you honestly think that it is possible to please everyone all of the time ? 100% of the people 100% of the time ? Can you name a single endeavor where this has happened ?

Of course I don’t. But I don’t believe in not trying to please the bulk of the population and the population is pretty varied in their tastes, generally speaking.

In other words, I don’t think Anet is doing the wrong thing by catering to different tastes, whether or not someone is dissatisfied by a single aspect. In fact, with a game with any significant overhead, I think they need to please as many people as possible. Narrowing your focus to one group isn’t going to do it.

Trying to cater to different tastes, as many people as possible, is a bit different than trying to please everyone. I completely agree that aiming at a single group is entirely too narrow a focus. Most players that I know personally enjoy at least a couple different aspects of gaming. A player that is primarily a middle of the road open world PvEer, but who enjoys dabbling in PvP (this would describe me by the way), will likely look elsewhere for his gaming fix if a given game offers only one or the other of those options.

Kevan.8912:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Do you honestly think that it is possible to please everyone all of the time ? 100% of the people 100% of the time ? Can you name a single endeavor where this has happened ?

Of course I don’t. But I don’t believe in not trying to please the bulk of the population and the population is pretty varied in their tastes, generally speaking.

In other words, I don’t think Anet is doing the wrong thing by catering to different tastes, whether or not someone is dissatisfied by a single aspect. In fact, with a game with any significant overhead, I think they need to please as many people as possible. Narrowing your focus to one group isn’t going to do it.

what enrages me the most is that it’s their main audience (that of gw1 and manifesto) that now is not pleased.
they already got our money, and now chase a new kind of population that i’m sure brings them more money than the older.

good for anet. good for ppl that like this way.
bad for us.

People keep saying this. Do you have any evidence that most Guild Wars 1 players are displeased? Because it’s been repeated a lot. I’m a Guild Wars 1 player, I bet I logged as many hours in Guild Wars 1 as you (probably more) and I’m not displeased.

So what percentage are we talking about?

You talk about Guild Wars 1 players as if they’re a club that only has a single opinion. I’ve never found this to be the case. It was a divided population.

I’m sure, for example, that PvPers are far more disenfranchised generally than PvE’ers are.

I feel that GW2 is a game which was never released and instead we got some kind of a placebo MMO.

Thats the best I can do to describe what I feel about this game.

I’ll remember Anet as a company which provided me with 7 years of a unique gaming experience and then used that profound faith to rip me off some money for their new MMO-cash grab.

GW2 is everything but nothing….

Vayne.8563:

Kevan.8912:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Do you honestly think that it is possible to please everyone all of the time ? 100% of the people 100% of the time ? Can you name a single endeavor where this has happened ?

Of course I don’t. But I don’t believe in not trying to please the bulk of the population and the population is pretty varied in their tastes, generally speaking.

In other words, I don’t think Anet is doing the wrong thing by catering to different tastes, whether or not someone is dissatisfied by a single aspect. In fact, with a game with any significant overhead, I think they need to please as many people as possible. Narrowing your focus to one group isn’t going to do it.

what enrages me the most is that it’s their main audience (that of gw1 and manifesto) that now is not pleased.
they already got our money, and now chase a new kind of population that i’m sure brings them more money than the older.

good for anet. good for ppl that like this way.
bad for us.

People keep saying this. Do you have any evidence that most Guild Wars 1 players are displeased? Because it’s been repeated a lot. I’m a Guild Wars 1 player, I bet I logged as many hours in Guild Wars 1 as you (probably more) and I’m not displeased.

So what percentage are we talking about?

You talk about Guild Wars 1 players as if they’re a club that only has a single opinion. I’ve never found this to be the case. It was a divided population.

I’m sure, for example, that PvPers are far more disenfranchised generally than PvE’ers are.

I agree that it is a bad idea to try to speak for some large group of unknown individuals (such as all GW1 players). I suppose the best I can say is that only one of the people I knew from GW1 that bought GW2 still plays. This is entirely too anecdotal to carry any weight, a few dozen people means little as a sample for a game of this size, but I can certainly understand how one’s perceptions can be colored by seeing everyone you know from GW1 quit GW2 in the first few days, weeks, or months.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Kevan.8912:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Do you honestly think that it is possible to please everyone all of the time ? 100% of the people 100% of the time ? Can you name a single endeavor where this has happened ?

Of course I don’t. But I don’t believe in not trying to please the bulk of the population and the population is pretty varied in their tastes, generally speaking.

In other words, I don’t think Anet is doing the wrong thing by catering to different tastes, whether or not someone is dissatisfied by a single aspect. In fact, with a game with any significant overhead, I think they need to please as many people as possible. Narrowing your focus to one group isn’t going to do it.

what enrages me the most is that it’s their main audience (that of gw1 and manifesto) that now is not pleased.
they already got our money, and now chase a new kind of population that i’m sure brings them more money than the older.

good for anet. good for ppl that like this way.
bad for us.

People keep saying this. Do you have any evidence that most Guild Wars 1 players are displeased? Because it’s been repeated a lot. I’m a Guild Wars 1 player, I bet I logged as many hours in Guild Wars 1 as you (probably more) and I’m not displeased.

So what percentage are we talking about?

You talk about Guild Wars 1 players as if they’re a club that only has a single opinion. I’ve never found this to be the case. It was a divided population.

I’m sure, for example, that PvPers are far more disenfranchised generally than PvE’ers are.

I agree that it is a bad idea to try to speak for some large group of unknown individuals (such as all GW1 players). I suppose the best I can say is that only one of the people I knew from GW1 that bought GW2 still plays. This is entirely too anecdotal to carry any weight, a few dozen people means little as a sample for a game of this size, but I can certainly understand how one’s perceptions can be colored by seeing everyone you know from GW1 quit GW2 in the first few days, weeks, or months.

See most of my guild were guild wars 1 players and very very few have left, which is why my perception is otherwise.

Guess we hung out with different crowds.

I still say people who PvPed have a lot more reason to be annoyed here than people who PvE.

Vayne.8563:

I still say people who PvPed have a lot more reason to be annoyed here than people who PvE.

We did both really. Some were PvPers who dabbled in PvE, others were PvEers who dabbled in PvP. It was a great alliance.

To be clear, I am not trying to claim that my own experience in this regard was at all representative of, “most,” or anything of the sort.

Vayne.8563:

Okay, let’s look at the opposite point of view. Let’s pretend that Anet didn’t try to please everyone and instead focused on one segment of the community. So they did that and not enough people played the game and not enough money was made to continue making updates. Would that percentage of the playerbase then be happy that Anet made that decision?

The problem is, it’s very easy to say something like the company is trying to please everyone, but that’s what a themepark MMO really needs to do. It’s got a huge overhead, and it needs a whole lot of players in game to keep this game running. In fact the game is designed around having tons of players in game.

If they make decisions to keep players they’re doing it for the benefit of the game, even if some people leave because they’re doing it.

Oh, I absolutely agree that taking just one portion of the gaming community would be a problem and most likely cause them more problems with people leaving than they have now. However, they have, imo, spread themselves too thin in trying to please almost everyone.

Now, one of the reasons I love this game so much is that there’s a little bit of fun for everyone – I don’t run dungeons or fractals, I don’t WvW or Pvp, and there’s still a lot of stuff left for me to do that I enjoy. That’s wonderful. But ANet have limited themselves to the point where it’s like they’re afraid to make some really huge changes that could greatly benefit the game (like changing the enemy AI on a large scale) because they’re worried about backlash from, say, three portions of their players, when actually it’s something that’s needed. Or the legendary precursor scavenger hunt. This has been bandied about for ages, but if ANet ever do release it, it has to be absolutely perfect for, what, five, six, different groups of players? They won’t please everyone, and they can’t, but they’ll try to until we get some sort of baseline grind for it that will just maybe not infuriate anyone, but won’t make anyone happy either.