Guild Wars 2

I am both serious and curious about this. As broken as this game is, it is far from the only one to reach this “glorified” status, so as to not aggravate the loyal fanboys here, i am going to use examples from other games.

Take wow pve, take Paladins, from the very get go they had 3 specs, Healer, Tank and DPS. Tank was simply inferior to other tanks, both in health pool and damage mitigation. The DPS spec had no CC in a game where every DPS class was EXPECTED to bring CC for dungeons. This flaws were pointed out, literally for YEARS, before devs acted on them. Same was for longer still lacking in resource sustain and damage in pvp.

So, my question is, what is it that makes Devs blind to what is mostly obvious for the grand majority of the player base?.
And may be more important, how broken, how failed, does a mechanic need to get before Devs acknowledge it and scrap it?.
Is there like a technical analysis to it? does it go entirely on gut feeling? does dev ego play into it?(not being offensive every one needs a healthy dose of ego).

I think its pretty obvious that GW2 was rushed out the door unfinished just like 99% of MMORPGs. I’m sure they thought they would get the resources needed to add the lacking features to spvp rather quickly but they never materialized due to the popularity of PVE and especially WvWvW.

Kwll.1468:

I think its pretty obvious that GW2 was rushed out the door unfinished just like 99% of MMORPGs. I’m sure they thought they would get the resources needed to add the lacking features to spvp rather quickly but they never materialized due to the popularity of PVE and especially WvWvW.

Well i was not talking about GW2 in particular, but rather a tendency i see with this games.

For a while (idk if they still do) WoW had the philosophy of certain classes/specs being viable by just doing damage if that’s what someone wanted to do. They openly came out and said this, which is why you saw specs like ret paladins, feral druids, etc. doing insane amounts of damage.

I think I’m alone when I say this, but I don’t think the game is terribly broken atm. I think some things are a little too good (cantrip eles, hgh engis), and some things are a little too weak (warriors), but I don’t think it’s that bad. I think balance changes when teams become better coordinated. I can only speak for NA, but I haven’t ever seen any team have outstanding coordination with each other.

I think when this starts happening balance will inherently start to shift. Don’t get me wrong, I think changes need to be made, but I don’t think it’s as drastic as people make it out to be. I think it’s laughable that so many people think they play “perfectly” most of the time, whether it’s solo or as a team.

If you want to compare this to WoW arenas, think about melee cleaves. They didn’t take much coordination to play, as most of the time it was more effective to just sit on one target for 10 minutes until it died. Compare that to other setups, one being RMP, where you had to do things like baiting out cooldowns, swapping, and bursting into CC. The game obviously went through a lot of balance changes, but this is generally how it was when I played.

You would see melee cleaves dominate the lower ratings because it was relatively easy compared to other comps, however at higher ratings it wasn’t as effective and it showed. I just feel like people in GW2 are playing more like a melee cleave instead of playing like a coordinated team, and that’s why certain things appear insanely over/underpowered.

A lot of people are going to disagree with me and flame me, but it’s really funny that the same people that berate new players for dying to high burst in hotjoins are the same people that complain about balance and don’t even try to do thinks like setup spikes in cc chains on bunkers. These are the people that complain about hundred blades being broken because they can’t finish it in a bull’s charge, but don’t even try to have a teammate follow up with a stun, knockdown, root, or do anything after the warrior uses bull’s charge. This is a team game.

Some nice points but at the end of the day PvP in GW2 is all about point control / conquest and if you like that then good luck to you! For me though I am bored of it.

I’m not about to say that I know anything about GW2’s development, but software development is quite often iterative – it’s cyclical and is reconsidered many times before and after release (the latter made possible through the ease of patch distribution). This means that a project is constantly being reviewed throughout development, on both a large and a small scale, to try and ensure it meets its targets.

There are many restrictions during a project’s development, but two that come to mind force people to balance the scope of what you intend to create versus the resources you have available to create it. Many times, a project’s deadlines are adjusted in order to accommodate the ideal finished product. Other times, deadlines are strictly enforced, developers work within them and are often forced to scrap, delay or reconsider concepts so that they can meet the final date. Both have advantages and disadvantages and can be applied particularly well to certain industries and pursuits.

I don’t believe any developer who cares about their work and respects the resources sunk into it likes to see something released that isn’t perfect. However, sometimes something just needs to be released – it needs to hit the shelves – and in these cases they have to make concessions with knowledge that some things could be improved – often, considerably so. However, as mentioned, software has the crutch that it can be continually improved over time provided that resources to do so can be found.

This is an example (heavily simplified) as to why you might find ‘broken’ games – they were released so that Devs could have the opportunity to ‘fix’ them during the software’s lifespan, fuelled by our cash dribbling in through sales.

Also, publishers are people too, so while they might well act as a source of pressure for release, it’s not always their fault for attempting to do their job.

Apolo.5942:

So, my question is, what is it that makes Devs blind to what is mostly obvious for the grand majority of the player base?.

Every person thinks their views are shared by “the grand majority of the player base”, when really they’re often only shared by a tiny but extremely vocal minority.

The code and interconnections becomes to big for anyone to be able to follow or detangle, life.

I can say a lot of things right now but I’ll try to keep it short.

Let’s go back to the basics children. Let us define what is an MMO

M – Massively
M – Multiplayer
O – Online

Emphasis on the two M’s.

All updates are based on the MAJORITY of the playerbase demand, it’s not about maths srsly, or about what build is potentially OP or not.

It all relies on what the players’ demand, if majority demands balance they will give balance, if the majority demands needs they will give needs.

There are other factors too. Factors like if the game is p2p or f2p or single purchase etc etc.

Tldr: the action of the devs just reflects what the majority desires. At the same end of the day only those with the developers perspective can truly decide what’s broken and what’s not.

Addressing game balance with a gamer’s perspective is like taking on the Pokemon elite 4 with a team of magikarps. Not impossible but very very very very very very VEEERY close to it.

It’s an unfortunate thing really. Once upon a time you could buy a single player game, take it home and play it on a stand alone computer. Now, even single player games tend to require an internet connection.

Companies are starting to rely on this and I think this is where MMOs come in. Since you absolutely need an internet connect to play a MMO by its very nature, companies have learned that they can get away with skimping on the polish and release the game to start making money sooner. Letting the player base provide them with the statistics and feed back they need to then start polishing.

They simply need to polish it enough so players actually stick around to play it.

Look at MWO. It still has the beta tag on its name yet for all intents and purposes, it is completely released and turning a profit. They are doing a poor job at fixing bugs while releasing new content to both attract more customers and to keep the ones they have interested.

The problem with all this? Adding new content can introduce new bugs. If the game already has bugs, these can become worse with the new content.

Companies need to cycle through it;

Release content,
Fix bugs,
Balance content, then
Repeat.

Instead of trying to do all of that at the same time.

Devs are usually bad at their own games. That means that they don’t see things the same way as most players do.

They take into consideration feedback, but they are most likely mainly look at metrics. Just because somebody comes on to the forums because some ele escaped, doesn’t mean they are going to instantly nerf ride the lightning or cantrips. They are going to collect data before they feed the whiny 15 year olds.

I have to imagine that the developers have very busy schedules between their full-time jobs (maybe even overtime) and their personal/family lives. That some of them still manage to play the game as gamers do is amazing.

Apolo.5942:

Well i was not talking about GW2 in particular, but rather a tendency i see with this games.

This being the GW2 forum one might consider that off topic. Especially since the only example you gave was WoW. I’m still not sure what the topic is supposed to be. You don’t like something about the game. What? If you feel that strongly about it then say it, don’t just hide your gripe behind a sensational subject line.

I actually find myself cursing blizzard, and then having to remind myself that this is an Anet game.

For instance, if I fall off a cliff and die, while trying to get to somewhere, along what should be a path… “f-ing blizzard, is that supposed to be ‘fun’… oh wait.. STUPID ANET!”

But yeah… being a dev must lead to having a MASSIVE ego. The mountains of games on the scrap heap is a testament to it.

Devs need to understand that if they say a class can do XYZ, then the players will expect the class to actually do XYZ viably.

..but instead we get car dealers trying to tell us that the Rav4 makes an excellent tank.

“Really? I kinda think a ‘tank’ makes a good tank”
“Oh yeah, it might not be the most ‘viable’ tank on the road, but it’s more than capable of filling the role.”

…and then it’s like, “did you hear about Bob? he got killed trying to tank a moose with his Prius”

And that’s how you end up with Necros in your group saying “I can tank, any class can tank” and “Can my engineer friend come too? He’s a great healer”

…and the devs see them say it, and walk off muttering “engineers are fine”

I see no examples stated in the OP as the the broken nature of GW2. The OP actually focuses more on WoW.

I’m not saying that GW2 is perfect, but you should list examples conductive of productive conversation.

Slight off topic.

The fact you compared this to Blizzard Game: World of Warcraft is epic fail.

WoW’s mechanics is based on the RNG and the Trinity.
Guild Wars 2 is based on some RNG but not focused and the Trinity does not exist.

I may not agree with all GW2 goes but when I went back to WoW paying an expansion, entering during 4.2 then a month later 4.3; I was flat out disgusted with WoW and felt I lost alot of money.

With the information I have now, if I had a choice to go back in time and choose which game was overall better to try out for gaming experiences. I would had gone with Guild Wars 2 and not bother trying MoP at all.

MoP was a rip off and I was a fool, felt cheated, and ignorant of how bad that expansion was.

So the fact you are trying to compare two completely different MMOs on how Devs run their game, maybe you should do your research first.

Another one of these threads with the same nonsensical recipe.

The game doesn’t work they way you and your “majority” want therefore the game is broken, the worst game ever, bugged, awful, stupid, etc.

The “majority” gets emphasis here as everyone who creates these threads makes kitten sure to reference either a “majority” or large(questionable) group of people that agree 100% with their views. They depend on this “majority” of people who “agree” with them in order to justify and validate their usually idiotic point. The funny part about this lazy justification of their point is that there is almost never context for this alleged “agreement” between the accuser and the “majority.” The reality is, the majority of the playerbase sits back quietly and contently. What you’re actually referencing is the vocal minority; many of them share identical points of view on how an MMO should always be.

That leads us to a whole new discussion on whether or not modern MMOs should follow the same tired recipe over and over. Sure, you don’t like how a certain part of the game works, but why should the solution always be the same? Just because it works isn’t good enough.

We need to take steps forward, not back.

Ezeriel.9574:

I actually find myself cursing blizzard, and then having to remind myself that this is an Anet game.

For instance, if I fall off a cliff and die, while trying to get to somewhere, along what should be a path… “f-ing blizzard, is that supposed to be ‘fun’… oh wait.. STUPID ANET!”

But yeah… being a dev must lead to having a MASSIVE ego. The mountains of games on the scrap heap is a testament to it.

Devs need to understand that if they say a class can do XYZ, then the players will expect the class to actually do XYZ viably.

..but instead we get car dealers trying to tell us that the Rav4 makes an excellent tank.

“Really? I kinda think a ‘tank’ makes a good tank”
“Oh yeah, it might not be the most ‘viable’ tank on the road, but it’s more than capable of filling the role.”

…and then it’s like, “did you hear about Bob? he got killed trying to tank a moose with his Prius”

And that’s how you end up with Necros in your group saying “I can tank, any class can tank” and “Can my engineer friend come too? He’s a great healer”

…and the devs see them say it, and walk off muttering “engineers are fine”

I’m not saying I agree with this post, but I did find it hilarious. Well written +1

^yes, I often amuse myself as well

^^The trinity is alive and well.

The fact that 4 warriors are capable of tanking, healing, and dps’ing “as a whole” does not mean that the trinity is gone.

@ agauos.8794

Problem is sir, is most people’s first MMO was World of Warcraft. A lot of people compare this single MMO to any other MMO or video games which in term, is poor judgement and ignorance.

People like them are not considered “Real Gamers” and not viable for debatable opinions.

Now the only thing “Blizzard” has accomplished is being able to take a 3rd rated, out of date, MMO; and manage to milk that game with little to no effort, for alot of money.

However, because of this, we now have many generations of gamers, that scream “PvP” or “Raids”, without trying different plat forms of gaming, and thus if their requirements are not met, they will bad mouth other MMOs.

Personally, I wish “Blizzard” the company, never existed. It has ruined future out comes of gaming and because of this, we will never hear other gaming plat forms, or the fact they will never see the light of day, without copying “World of Warcraft”, or have a lot of money and sponsorships to dare try something “new”.

Arenanet, did just that with Guild Wars 2, by breaking the “Holy Trinity”, however because people are so brain-washed by “Blizzard” games, they cannot think, outside the box.

It’s really really… pitiful if you ask me.

However, its recognized by the “Real” gaming community and by history of being the first of its kind, as an MMO, to break the chain.

Players often see things that are “broken.” Devs often hide behind terms like “internal testing” and “the numbers on our end” rather than explain a design change (or explain why they left an overpowered class or mechanic alone) to the player base.

It’s like that in every game. This one is no different. As a long time MMO player, it’s something you get used to. You might be able to solo a champion, but you’ll never beat the dungeon boss from the office building.

Edit: Public testing would be good for some of this (and it works in some games, to an extent), but for all the public testing we can do, the ultimate decision rests with the developers.

The worst thing for GW2 classes right now is Ranger pets and Necromancer minions.

@ Zoid.2568

Can you explain this? Did you play World of Warcraft? Are you use to pets tanking mobs or taunting them.

Your topic of discussion is questioning itself.

Broken for me means unplayable and this game is very far from it . Just because you don’t like how things work, doesn’t mean game is broken. It’s much easier to find the game that you will like than ’ fix’ one you don’t . The single fact you are here complaining means it’s not that bad as you make it, otherwise you wouldn’t bother.

It does seem to take devs quite a while to fix some things that seem obvious to the players, Class balance is one thing that is so important to the PvP part of the game, yet it has gone almost untouched so far in GW2. I wish I could work on this game I think I could balances the classes better than they are.

Simple. The skill and perspective of the developers cannot match the skill and perspective of the collective fanbase. This is obvious. You cannot win the metagame against the entire player base, which frequently involves devoted and skilled folks.

This leads to issues. One is arrogance, of which one must adhere strictly to their vision and ignore the elephant at the room. Developers that are out of touch with the game is played cannot stick with this arrogance. But by the same token, one must also realized that players can sometimes have tunnel vision and have their own agenda. Developers cannot be pushed around by player’s whims. Finally, one cannot please everyone. It would be wise to keep priority on potential new players and players that will say, instead of the entitled lot that will leave at the drop of a hat once something doesn’t go their way.

Shadowlancer.7102:

@ Zoid.2568

Can you explain this? Did you play World of Warcraft? Are you use to pets tanking mobs or taunting them.

Your topic of discussion is questioning itself.

As a Necro myself, I understand what Zoid means. I think.

When you’re running along, as a Ranger or Necro, sometimes your pets get ahead of you. When you stop short of aggroing a enemy, sometimes your pet keeps going.

It’s not all that fun when you inadvertantly pull several enemies. Doubly so when it results in your own death. While you can hide your pet as a Ranger, Necros don’t have that luxury, and the only way to be rid of the flesh golem is to get it killed off.

I think a game gets broken when they try to balance incompatible modes at the same time. For example, Warriors are OP in PVE content but only so-so in WvW and not at all good in PvP. So what do you do?

Glamour mesmers are great in WvW but not very good in PvE where the attack rate is too slow.

Fortunately, ANet said they are starting to balance separately for each mode.

@ alan.5863

This is confusing; assuming he was talking about that; the whole point is this, you can avoid some aggro pulling but not all of it.

The Devs specifically said that they do not want you to skip areas all the time because it makes the game “Dull and Boring”, hence why pets aggro mobs.

Since the game is heavily based on Role Play, you really don’t expect your pets to follow right on top of you and not aggro right… ?

Again, in World of Warcraft, if said person that I was replying to, did play WoW, is use to his pet taunting, tanking, easy to heal for tanking, or not aggroing with a low aggro radius.

Then he is wrong, and saying pets are broken, with little reasoning to back it up; is pointless.

broken? unplayable? GuildWars2?

really?

You want broken game, Age of Conan, that was a broken mmo, you want a broken game? Vaguard that was a broken mmo. SWG, PotBS, FallenEarth, etc.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t broken, (neither is WoW for that matter) there may be annoyances, there may be design decisions you disagree with, there may even be bugs, but broken? No, I think Guild Wars2 is one of the least broken MMO’s still open.

ok, I left the game several months ago because the overall difficulty setting really was too “casual” for my taste, but when I see a post like this it really itches to comment. Is this the daily/weekly we need trinity-post? What the heck does it matter what WoW does? GW2 is a nicely crafted game, the monicker mmorpg does not imply every game has to be the same? GW2 is not broken, well done and enjoyable by quite a lot of people. Your “criticism” is along the line of “Super Mario games allow me to jump onto turtles to destroy them, GW2 is broken because it does not feature this mechanic”. If your mindset is so narrow it can only fathom the mechanics of a single computer game, a reasonable advice would be “play that game”.

Shadowlancer.7102:

@ Zoid.2568

Can you explain this? Did you play World of Warcraft? Are you use to pets tanking mobs or taunting them.

Your topic of discussion is questioning itself.

I did play WoW. For 6 years. Most of them as a hunter and warlock.

And if you’re even coming close to insinuating that the pet AI and mechanics are better in this game than in WoW you’re out of your “real gamer” frickin’ mind.

@ ajm.2931

A: Sony purposely broke Vanguard, the fact you don’t even mention that, makes you ignorant of the history.

B: World of Warcraft is broken.

It was admitted by the Devs themselves that they could never balance of the Classes with in 1% damage field and that during Arena Seasons or T ornaments, a class of their choosing will always have an advantage of that season before getting nerfed and another class is buffed.

cough cough Season 2 Hunters “Explosion Shot with Stun” yeah… enough said.

What about the multiple times of re-designing of the system mechanics and classes after BC, LK, and cata?

BC was too hard with its CC requirements and so LK expansion, it was toned down HARD to a simple 1 CC required and maybe 2 with AoE focus spam.

Elitist complained and so in Cata, class redesign which brought back some need for more CC and less AoE. Bye bye armor piercing.

Then once again in MoP expansion, classes were revamped and copied alot of Guild Wars 2 mechanics of easy class respecing, which made a complete over haul in Glyphs and respecing, taking out cost for pet retraining and removed the need to pay for new spells or abilities.

Blizzard is old, its broken, the people that work for Blizzard get fired for not doing a good job of making tons of money for Blizzard of a re-hashed expansion.

The whole company its self is a moldy, foul, vile, loathing, piece of trash of a gaming company.

Sitting here and saying in your post that it isn’t broken? Don’t make me laugh!

Generally when you see a balance issue it is because you aren’t playing the game mode it was balanced for. All previous MMO’s use the same balance for PvE and PvP. GW2 is FINALLY going to start splitting these skills, and they should do so for 100% of them. They want all this “consistency” between modes, yet they give PvE mobs 4000000000k health, 1 shot you and attack once every hour or so, meanwhile in PvP people have 15k health, attack very fast and can dodge around. There is no consistency between PvP and PvE, and as soon as the devs realize that we can have a more balanced game.

As long as they stick to their consistency approach balance is going to suck.

I don’t really understand why people keep comparing GW2 to WoW when the class system is clearly much more like Diablo. The classes are completely self-sustaining. Classes can be built to a certain level of viability in many roles. Lack of a "true" healer or tank class. I feel like the GW2 to Diablo (particularly Diablo 2) is a much better comparison than GW2 with any of the other popular MMOs.

@ Shootsfoot.9276

I played WoW as a hunter too. I remember at the very begining when Blizzard couldn’t make up their minds, what role Hunters were to play.

I remember Beast Master was a joke of spec because Pets would get stuck, on the spot, and would not move.

You were either MM spec or Survival. However survival wasn’t all that great either since traps had to be placed before combat.

Then came BC expansion; BM became viable with survival being loved at the end.

LK expansion; BM got nerfed and survival got love.

Cata expansion, class revamp, whoopy I have to relearn it again. MoP expansion, oh my gosh, class revamp again, but this time with simple stats, because Blizzard admitted that they could not “do” the math, hence MoP expansion.

You obviously do not know your hunter history, at all!

So overall to your question, is the pet system in Guild Wars 2, better than WoW’s pet system, during the very beginning of either game’s launch to the world?

Hmm… let me think about this. Hell Yes!

Now comparing Pet system in WoW, which has been tampered with for over 5 years and redesigned three times with a fourth redesign coming soon, compared to Guild Wars 2 which has had less than a year to tamper with to perfect and since both have completely different mechanics in use; in which one do I feel more promising than the other?

Guild Wars 2 pet system.

Edit: For Clarification so I don’t get trolled.

I don’t get what the op means tbh, GW2 is not broken, far from it, best game mmo out there buddy and I’ve played all the big mmo’s and wow is a big piece of poo that should take notes from GW2. Yep.

Oush!!

Shadowlancer.7102:

@ Shootsfoot.9276

I played WoW as a hunter too. I remember at the very begining when Blizzard couldn’t make up their minds, what role Hunters were to play.

I remember Beast Master was a joke of spec because Pets would get stuck, on the spot, and would not move.

You were either MM spec or Survival. However survival wasn’t all that great either since traps had to be placed before combat.

Then came BC expansion; BM became viable with survival being loved at the end.

LK expansion; BM got nerfed and survival got love.

Cata expansion, class revamp, whoopy I have to relearn it again. MoP expansion, oh my gosh, class revamp again, but this time with simple stats, because Blizzard admitted that they could not “do” the math, hence MoP expansion.

You obviously do not know your hunter history, at all!

So overall to your question, is the pet system in Guild Wars 2, better than WoW’s pet system, during the very beginning of either game’s launch to the world?

Hmm… let me think about this. Hell Yes!

Now comparing Pet system in WoW, which has been tampered with for over 5 years and redesigned three times with a fourth redesign coming soon, compared to Guild Wars 2 which has had less than a year to tamper with to perfect and since both have completely different mechanics in use; in which one do I feel more promising than the other?

Guild Wars 2 pet system.

Edit: For Clarification so I don’t get trolled.

LOL….your posts make me laugh.

Nothing but opinions punctuated with personal attacks.

Aphix.9846:

I don’t get what the op means tbh, GW2 is not broken, far from it, best game mmo out there buddy and I’ve played all the big mmo’s and wow is a big piece of poo that should take notes from GW2. Yep.

Oush!!

GW2 has a lot to learn from other MMO’s.

Star Trek Online’s “dungeon” search features absolutely blow GW2’s out the water (Which is to say, is non existant in GW2), likewise City of Heroes, STO and Neverwinter all feature ways for players to craft content and extend the game’s playability without the devs having to lift a finger; again GW2 could benefit greatly from such a system (In context it could be played off as something akin to the SAB Mk2). GW2’s roleplaying facilities are nearly non existant; ironic for something calling itself an “Massively multiplayer online roleplaying game” and let’s not talk about PvP…

No, GW2 isn’t perfect, it’s not even the best – but it has potential to become the best; but it needs to steer a clear course to get there and chasing it’s own tail on balance issues, creating content that it throws out on a monthly basis, and selling gambling chests and town clothes arn’t instilling me with confidence

Apolo.5942:

I am both serious and curious about this. As broken as this game is, it is far from the only one to reach this “glorified” status, so as to not aggravate the loyal fanboys here, i am going to use examples from other games.

Take wow pve, take Paladins, from the very get go they had 3 specs, Healer, Tank and DPS. Tank was simply inferior to other tanks, both in health pool and damage mitigation. The DPS spec had no CC in a game where every DPS class was EXPECTED to bring CC for dungeons. This flaws were pointed out, literally for YEARS, before devs acted on them. Same was for longer still lacking in resource sustain and damage in pvp.

So, my question is, what is it that makes Devs blind to what is mostly obvious for the grand majority of the player base?.
And may be more important, how broken, how failed, does a mechanic need to get before Devs acknowledge it and scrap it?.
Is there like a technical analysis to it? does it go entirely on gut feeling? does dev ego play into it?(not being offensive every one needs a healthy dose of ego).

The definition of broken is “Having been fractured or damaged and no longer in one piece or in working order.” From this we can conclude that a broken car is one that can’t function as a car so long as it’s in a broken state, applying this to a game means the game can no longer function as a game while it is broken.

The thread title implies that you think the game is broken, given that the game functions as a game, it clearly isn’t broken based on common usage of the word, your post doesn’t clarify what you mean by broken and doesn’t use examples FROM GW2, only from an unrelated game.

Your rhetorical questions at the end of your post imply that it’s certain skills and mechanics that you think are broken, but you name nothing which makes it hard to debate with you and as such, I can only believe that it’s your perception of ‘brokenness’ and not an actual issue. If a skill functions but not in the way you think it should in terms of numbers then it isn’t broken, if it says it will do damage and then makes yellow roses sprout from the ground, then it would be broken.

Lastly, the cop-out argument of “if you can’t see it, I don’t need to repeat it to prove it” doesn’t work because the burden of proof is on you, as you are the one making the claims. It’s not up to me to prove your snake oil doesn’t work, it’s up to you to prove (under peer scrutiny) that it does work.

“Since you absolutely need an internet connect to play a MMO by its very nature, companies have learned that they can get away with skimping on the polish and release the game to start making money sooner.”

There’s no trend here. Initially MMOs were really, really, buggy. Everquest 1 was almost guaranteed to have servers down for hours after a release as they patched up the bugs, or patched the patch. WoW raised the quality when it was initially released but it was still buggy by current standards and had major failings such as queuing to log in. Since then a variety of MMOs have been released in a beta state or with very high quality, depending upon the manufacturer. GW2 is perfectly playable although it needs a lot of polish and is not delivering a much as it could.

Kwll.1468:

I think its pretty obvious that GW2 was rushed out the door unfinished just like 99% of MMORPGs. I’m sure they thought they would get the resources needed to add the lacking features to spvp rather quickly but they never materialized due to the popularity of PVE and especially WvWvW.

It’s obvious by where they target for sales.

-Introduce PvE content
-Introduce grind or new currency
-Introduce RNG gamble for skins in the cash shop
-Introduce new gear skins in the cash shop, only available in the cash shop, for limited amount of time.

When the money is this good by targeting the casual / fanboy PvE demographic that floods them with cash over quaggan backpacks, what incentive do you have as a company to actually do anything else but?

If they can generate more than enough revenue doing this type of stuff, especially when not enough people are putting their foot down, why would they fix class imbalances? Why would they make the combat deeper? Why would they expand skill options or improve the trait system?

lothefallen.7081:

Kwll.1468:

I think its pretty obvious that GW2 was rushed out the door unfinished just like 99% of MMORPGs. I’m sure they thought they would get the resources needed to add the lacking features to spvp rather quickly but they never materialized due to the popularity of PVE and especially WvWvW.

It’s obvious by where they target for sales.

-Introduce PvE content
-Introduce grind or new currency
-Introduce RNG gamble for skins in the cash shop
-Introduce new gear skins in the cash shop, only available in the cash shop, for limited amount of time.

When the money is this good by targeting the casual / fanboy PvE demographic that floods them with cash over quaggan backpacks, what incentive do you have as a company to actually do anything else but?

If they can generate more than enough revenue doing this type of stuff, especially when not enough people are putting their foot down, why would they fix class imbalances? Why would they make the combat deeper? Why would they expand skill options or improve the trait system?

Why will they? Because they’re artists. They really do want to make a good game. They simply are doing it on their schedule, not anyone elses.

There are a lot of things that are being done now that would normally be done prelaunch. They ran out of time, as most MMOs seem to. They never said they wouldn’t be balancing the professions. They had other things they worked on too. Stuff like the culling in WvW which appearently was a larger problem than they thought it would be.

Now they’re moving onto other things.

I’ve never been to a game forum for any MMORPG that didn’t have complaints about balance. Not one. Not ever. And eventually devs do get around to balancing things. It’s not fast, and it’s not easy, but they do. Slowly over time.

Other people on this forum have talked about balance issues that lasted in WoW for years until they were fixed and that’s a much bigger company with a pay to play game.

It’ll happen..but not on our schedule.

Shadowlancer.7102:

@ Zoid.2568

Can you explain this? Did you play World of Warcraft? Are you use to pets tanking mobs or taunting them.

Your topic of discussion is questioning itself.

If you don’t know the issues with pets and minions please try read about it before you question me. Clearly there’s a huge problem in different areas of the game, like Dungeons and WvWvW.

Ezeriel.9574:

I actually find myself cursing blizzard, and then having to remind myself that this is an Anet game.

For instance, if I fall off a cliff and die, while trying to get to somewhere, along what should be a path… “f-ing blizzard, is that supposed to be ‘fun’… oh wait.. STUPID ANET!”

But yeah… being a dev must lead to having a MASSIVE ego. The mountains of games on the scrap heap is a testament to it.

Devs need to understand that if they say a class can do XYZ, then the players will expect the class to actually do XYZ viably.

..but instead we get car dealers trying to tell us that the Rav4 makes an excellent tank.

“Really? I kinda think a ‘tank’ makes a good tank”
“Oh yeah, it might not be the most ‘viable’ tank on the road, but it’s more than capable of filling the role.”

…and then it’s like, “did you hear about Bob? he got killed trying to tank a moose with his Prius”

And that’s how you end up with Necros in your group saying “I can tank, any class can tank” and “Can my engineer friend come too? He’s a great healer”

…and the devs see them say it, and walk off muttering “engineers are fine”

What.. you know Bob to.. so that’s why I have not seen him around in a whiles…… kitten Prius – respects

Shadowlancer.7102:

@ agauos.8794

Problem is sir, is most people’s first MMO was World of Warcraft. A lot of people compare this single MMO to any other MMO or video games which in term, is poor judgement and ignorance.

People like them are not considered “Real Gamers” and not viable for debatable opinions.

Now the only thing “Blizzard” has accomplished is being able to take a 3rd rated, out of date, MMO; and manage to milk that game with little to no effort, for alot of money.

However, because of this, we now have many generations of gamers, that scream “PvP” or “Raids”, without trying different plat forms of gaming, and thus if their requirements are not met, they will bad mouth other MMOs.

Personally, I wish “Blizzard” the company, never existed. It has ruined future out comes of gaming and because of this, we will never hear other gaming plat forms, or the fact they will never see the light of day, without copying “World of Warcraft”, or have a lot of money and sponsorships to dare try something “new”.

Arenanet, did just that with Guild Wars 2, by breaking the “Holy Trinity”, however because people are so brain-washed by “Blizzard” games, they cannot think, outside the box.

It’s really really… pitiful if you ask me.

However, its recognized by the “Real” gaming community and by history of being the first of its kind, as an MMO, to break the chain.

My sides hurt!

The only thing Blizzard is guilty of is, making MMOs popular.
Now they (MMOs) are filled with console kiddies that want RPG roles in their super Mario online arcade show.
Don’t believe me? Go check Defiance, not a RPG but it shows where the companies want the MMO to go, and that is straight to the milking stool.
In DAoC I used to grind and farm mobs for XP, now? Now the companies grind and farm us!
The world of the MMO is in a bad way (better add a “in my opinion” before my Aussie friend, Mr. V. pulls me up about it!), 1 step forward and 2 backwards – welcome to MMORPGs!

Vayne.8563:

I’ve never been to a game forum for any MMORPG that didn’t have complaints about balance. Not one. Not ever.

I’ve been on exactly one where balance was not the hot topic, rather the access to accounts. Three online from one IP at any given time but no limit to the number of accounts which could be owned by one person. So the topic was more a social balance than game balance.

Notably, add in that game could have PvP . . .