Guild Wars 2

First, let me preface this post by saying this is only an opinion, and judging by the popularity of PvE in this game, it is not the opinion shared by most of you.

So, I play videogames at an unhealthy level. I usually end up spending most of my leisure time immersed in some world that someone else has manufactured through years of coding. I love the idea of getting lost in another world, as it pulls me from the one that I spend the rest of my days in.

I typically play games that have both PvE and PvP elements. I usually end up doing more of the PvP but PvE is a good break (sometimes it’s the other way around).

So, here is the meat of my post: I can’t get into PvE in this game. The reasons I can’t get into it may baffle many of you, because I’m sure it’s the very reasons you love it. I am not here to sway you into dislike, I am just wanting the devs to see why people like me aren’t playing.

1) Grouping – This is a major flaw to me. The odd thing about it, it seems like a great idea. You never have to speak to anyone to accomplish all the content in a zone or even in WvW. You end up in a zone with a massive battle, you fight, you get loot and you move on. I may be really off-base here, but isn’t the point of an MMO to get people communicating to form alliances and even friendships? In this game it doesn’t make you, so often, most people don’t. People don’t feel like obstacles, true, but they feel like NPCs instead. I see people and I never have a need to speak with them. Even things like trading where you used to have to meet some “face-to-face” is done through a antisocial mail system where you can be on the other side of Tyria. I equate this to dungeon finder in other MMOs. Anet explicitly stated they don’t want dungeon finder because it removes the community aspect of creating groups (which is correct, dungeon finder is the worst idea ever for a community driven game)….yet, every other aspect of the game is the exact opposite of this.

2) Repetitiveness – The questing is very “different” from other MMOs but in essence it’s not only the same, but it’s even more repetitive. Each zone has basically the same structure wherein you are running from sector to sector and you will discover a POI, do a heart (which are mostly the same objectives) and discover a vista. There are “dynamic events” that were a big selling point for me, but even those are insanely repetitive, some of them starting again while you are still in the area (not very dynamic).

3) Questing – Questing in this game is more of a checklist and less of a quest. When you come to a zone, I do not get the feeling of a living area that needs my help, I see it more as a checklist. Open map, see 8 vistas left, 3 POI and 4 hearts. For completionists, this may be the greatest feeling ever, but I (and many of my friends) don’t play games like this. Also, when you get to a zone and you automatically pick up objectives based on proximity, it feels un-organic. It’s odd. Does it make things easier, of course, does it make it more immersive? Not to me.

4) Down-leveling – This may be the biggest problem I have. In this game, you never feel like you accomplish anything (other than checking off content which goes back to the checklist problem). In other games, even single player games like Skyrim, you feel like as you level you become a powerful force. In this game, it feels less like power and more like added skills on a bar. I never go to a zone and feel like the fruits of my labor were worth it. Level 80s go to level 1 zones and still have to fight. I am a hero and yet the same boar that was killing me at level 2 is still putting up a similar fight. Unepic. Now, is this a genius way to make all of your content relevant? Of course. Does that make it fun? Not for me.

5) Gear – The way down-leveling and scaling works, as you level you never get excited about a piece of gear. Especially in WvW, when you find a piece of gear, you know you HAVE to replace it within a couple levels or you are actually less powerful because of scaling. In other game, while leveling, I have found a piece of gear that was good enough where I kept it for 15 levels. Finding that gear, even at a non-max level was exciting. In this game, it just feels meh.

6) Never making you choose – Again, this may seem odd, but I feel there is too much choice in this game. It’s like Anet is afraid to make anyone choose anything. Guilds, you can join a bunch! Crafting, you can have them all! I know it’s strange but when you remove specialization, it feels less epic. You don’t feel like a special snowflake or like you made good or bad choices. I know it seems odd to you, but many people like the idea of exclusivity and this game lacks it.

7) No end game – Anet has the genius idea that “all content is end game content” but does that really work? The idea of games is to beat it or to max it. In single player games, you complete the main story and “beat the game” in other MMOs they develop tons of content that only max level, max gear people can play. In this game, sure there are fractals and a couple of things only max players can do, but much of the content can be done by anyone. It makes starting the game and leveling up a little quite easy to get into, but again, it removes the real need to level. I know people hate the carrot on a stick approach, and games like WoW are mind-numbingly treadmilled, but you need some sort of progression or incentive to max out.

8) World PvP – In other games, the most fun aspect of questing and always having to watch your back for that enemy player trying to ruin your experience. It’s thrilling, albeit not for everyone. Many don’t like that, so there are PvE servers for them, but many people love it so that choice is there. In this game you have to go to WvW which is far from PvP in my experience. You run from area to area smashing doors and when you encounter an enemy it’s usually 20v10 or 10v3, rarely are there even 1v1 skirmishes. Segregation in this game is disconnecting. PvE only, WvW only, SPVP only, jumping from instance to instance to get the play you want, not really ever mixing any of it.

Now, I will say this game does many things right. I think the combat and the weapon swapping are genius. The action combat and traditional MMO combat marriage is brilliant. The art in this game is breathtaking, and could be the most aesthetically pleasing game I’ve ever played.
I’ll end by saying this, clearly most of you still playing PvE are going to find this post completely off-base, because you’re still here, so clearly you like it. I think if I would have posted this closer to launch I would find much more people that would respond saying they share my sentiments. I started this game on launch day with a nearly full friends list that I brought with me from other games and from work. I recruited people heavily to this game and they are all, 100%, without exception, gone. I am the lone wolf because I’ve been placated with SPvP and the wonderful combat system. I’ve dabbled in WvW and PvE, but just can’t grab hold.
Anyway, thanks for the read and I hope this doesn’t come off as a QQ because it’s more of a constructive feedback post. I still play this game and I have around 500 hours in, but I am getting to a point where I wish PvE and WvW could suck me in so I can continue to spend hours into this game.

I see what you are saying and some of it I will say I “do not disagree” but for whatever reason I find myself playing it and enjoying it. I quit for a long while (right around all of the cool events they did and people got awesome skins for D= ) but then I felt the desire for a game that had this combat, this art style, and this content. I don’t think, nor will I ever think, that this game is the end all be all of video games, but I get a lot of fun out of it.

I suppose what I’m saying is that, sometimes I want everything you listed, and then I go play any one of those games. But when I feel like this game, I play this game. I wish that they had some magical abilities to perfectly implement whatever would keep me playing this game during all of my free time for years (and I’m sure they would too ;D) but at least I still come back and have fun every once in a while.

I do want to add that I appreciate your respect for other players. A lot of these sorts of posts (I’m probably guilty of this as well at some point haha) feel insulting and I happily read yours without that feeling.

DaedalusDragon.3754:

I see what you are saying and some of it I will say I “do not disagree” but for whatever reason I find myself playing it and enjoying it. I quit for a long while (right around all of the cool events they did and people got awesome skins for D= ) but then I felt the desire for a game that had this combat, this art style, and this content. I don’t think, nor will I ever think, that this game is the end all be all of video games, but I get a lot of fun out of it.

I suppose what I’m saying is that, sometimes I want everything you listed, and then I go play any one of those games. But when I feel like this game, I play this game. I wish that they had some magical abilities to perfectly implement whatever would keep me playing this game during all of my free time for years (and I’m sure they would too ;D) but at least I still come back and have fun every once in a while.

I do want to add that I appreciate your respect for other players. A lot of these sorts of posts (I’m probably guilty of this as well at some point haha) feel insulting and I happily read yours without that feeling.

Thanks for the feedback. I definitely made an effort to not come off as combative. I don’t want my feelings to be viewed as an attack on people that don’t feel the same. I just want people to realize there are many people like me out there and these are reasons why many of “us” can’t get into it.

I think that Anet is trying to hard to not be like Blizzard, which sucks because WoW copies a ton of great ideas. So basically Anet shuns great ideas for the sake of their own pride vs what makes games so dang fun.

But if Anet did start using some of the idea’s that WoW has implemented, you’ll get the community chanting that GW2 is another WoW clone. It’s a case of not being able to please everybody

from what you mentioned if Guild Wars 2 was different and suited your needs perfectly, some of the points made would get me away from playing it.
1. Leveling in most MMOs is a soloable process. When it comes to dungeons, fractals and the last story mission you are forced to group. In my opinion there’s enough party and enough solo content. If suddenly the rest of PVE forced you to party up I would feel really uncomfortable.
2-3 it’s pretty much how all MMOs and most RPGs work. I can’t really imagine a different system so I don’t even know how to comment of this one.
4. I praise the game for downscaling and I don’t think I would play if it wasn’t there. Downscaling is good when you’re helping a friend in a lower zone, downscaling prevents level 80s from farming starter zones. Downscaling feels realistic. If you fought a bear, then a tiger, then a bear again, would your second bear fight be any easier?
5. I keep gear pieces for 20-40 levels sometimes. I tend to search for good looking skins for the end game too. I enjoy gear, but at the same time I’m happy that it doesn’t influence the game that much. Skill > Gear is always a sign of a good game to me.
7. The whole game is an end game. What end game would you find in a different game? Dungeons? There in this game as well. PvP? Check. What else is there to do in a different MMO? Raid for gear? Then what? In GW 2 you can as well spend your time doing dungeons, fractals, WvW, PvP, search for skins, do full explore, do jumping puzzles, complete your personal story, level alts… You can do the same things you can do in a different MMO end game. The difference is that some MMOs have so much gear progression and are so grindy that nobody reaches the endgame.

Baamoink.4281:

But if Anet did start using some of the idea’s that WoW has implemented, you’ll get the community chanting that GW2 is another WoW clone. It’s a case of not being able to please everybody

Generally people get offended by popular things. Just look at the hate spewed toward Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber, CoD, and WoW. It’s like when a band is underground and then they become popular and many of their first fans leave because they are too “mainstream”. People fight against anything that is insanely popular. I’m sure some psychologist has named this phenomenon.

Taking queues from successful things is a great way to progress. You take things that worked and you expand on them, then you take things that didn’t and tweak them. That’s how progress works. The automobile is better today than in the 50s. Imagine if when Ford comes out with a new SUV with more features if it is widely rejected just because it has four wheels and a steering wheel like it’s Chevy counterpart.

People need to come to the realization that progression is a fantastic thing and we can’t discount every idea just because it was contained in a previous iteration.

Edit: The ultimate example of this was with SWTOR. People participated in a 1000+ page post on ability delay. Some people, like myself, even made youtube videos and linked them to the post to show examples. It was a major issue and one that I think drove a large amount of people away. During those posts, there were actually some people that repeatedly showed up and stated that we were just trying to make SWTOR just like WoW. I was completely baffled by this. There was a clear game bug and engine problem and we wanted it fixed, and some people were so offended because they thought we were trying to turn it into WoW.

The biggest thing GW2 is lacking for me is reward. Every dragon or dungeon chest that I open I end up with blue and green only. Monsters drop me whites, blues and a green or two. I completed the maps in the high end areas, and I was given 2 exotics that were 3 levels below me…WTF? This happened on 3 toons. The storyline quests have crappy rewards too. I have never been satisfied by any reward in this game except the one time KARKA event, BAR NONE! It seems impossible to get a Legendary for me, Since I have started in the 3 day headstart, I have not made enough gold for the precursor, let alone the items needed to convert it. For me, Anet would have to completely overhaul the entire reward system across the board, for me to feel that all the rewards are decent, right now, they suck badly (really badly). Their DR code has kicked in on all 3 of my level 80 toons, just because I wish to farm Karma in Orr. And, if that was not bad enough, most of the events in Orr have been nerfed into the ground. If I had to take a survey now, about how I would rate GW2 on a scale of 1-10, I would give it a 3, just because, without a decent reward system, all the polish and good looks that this game has, simply does not give me the enjoyment that I was expecting from GW2.

You say all those thing because you think game design is actually about game design.

game design is about managing your resources or more preciesly compromise.

I’m sorry but I disagree with most of your points, OP. I don’t have time at the moment to go through point by point, but I’ll come back and edit this post later.

Suffice to say, I truly believe you’re looking for a different game. Many of the points you have gripes with are the exact reasons I love this game, namely, the lack of forced grouping, the down leveling, lack of designated end game and the lack of world PVP.

Honestly, I’m not even seeing what you DO like in this game. Most of the people who are in your mindset have left and rightfully so. This isn’t the game you’re looking for and I’d resent you and your ilk if your voice ruined this game for my kind.

Nappychappy.7046:

I think that Anet is trying to hard to not be like Blizzard, which sucks because WoW copies a ton of great ideas. So basically Anet shuns great ideas for the sake of their own pride vs what makes games so dang fun.

If Anet made GW2 to be anything like WoW, I wouldn’t be here, and they wouldn’t be getting my gem money.

For players like me, their strategy is working.

Halanna.3927:

Nappychappy.7046:

I think that Anet is trying to hard to not be like Blizzard, which sucks because WoW copies a ton of great ideas. So basically Anet shuns great ideas for the sake of their own pride vs what makes games so dang fun.

If Anet made GW2 to be anything like WoW, I wouldn’t be here, and they wouldn’t be getting my gem money.

For players like me, their strategy is working.

I am talking about features, since that is what they copy. They already have a formula in place. But let’s be honest, you play this game because it costs nothing a month.

felivear.1536:

I play videogames at an unhealthy level.

Then GW2 is not for you.

Then again, you mentioned that you want a “need” to level, etc.
You sound a lot like a very standard traditional MMO player, you want carrots to chase, you want invisible walls that lock certain content out until you grind X enough, etc.

Seriously, go play some traditional MMO until the sole thought of playing a traditional MMO makes you puke in your mouth a little.
Then, and only then, you are ready to play a game based on fun.

Nappychappy.7046:

Halanna.3927:

Nappychappy.7046:

I think that Anet is trying to hard to not be like Blizzard, which sucks because WoW copies a ton of great ideas. So basically Anet shuns great ideas for the sake of their own pride vs what makes games so dang fun.

If Anet made GW2 to be anything like WoW, I wouldn’t be here, and they wouldn’t be getting my gem money.

For players like me, their strategy is working.

I am talking about features, since that is what they copy. They already have a formula in place. But let’s be honest, you play this game because it costs nothing a month.

Most games cost nothing per month, we play gw2 because its fun. It’s also not for everyone.

No game is.

I disagree with basically everything in the op, and if you want pve where you have to watch your back, that’s exactly what wvw is. There are loads of 1v1s if you are away from the main fortifications.

emikochan.8504:

Nappychappy.7046:

Halanna.3927:

Nappychappy.7046:

I think that Anet is trying to hard to not be like Blizzard, which sucks because WoW copies a ton of great ideas. So basically Anet shuns great ideas for the sake of their own pride vs what makes games so dang fun.

If Anet made GW2 to be anything like WoW, I wouldn’t be here, and they wouldn’t be getting my gem money.

For players like me, their strategy is working.

I am talking about features, since that is what they copy. They already have a formula in place. But let’s be honest, you play this game because it costs nothing a month.

Most games cost nothing per month, we play gw2 because its fun. It’s also not for everyone.

No game is.

I disagree with basically everything in the op, and if you want pve where you have to watch your back, that’s exactly what wvw is. There are loads of 1v1s if you are away from the main fortifications.

Nothing is free.

We lose more that you think, just because this game is B2P.

Nappychappy.7046:

Halanna.3927:

Nappychappy.7046:

I think that Anet is trying to hard to not be like Blizzard, which sucks because WoW copies a ton of great ideas. So basically Anet shuns great ideas for the sake of their own pride vs what makes games so dang fun.

If Anet made GW2 to be anything like WoW, I wouldn’t be here, and they wouldn’t be getting my gem money.

For players like me, their strategy is working.

I am talking about features, since that is what they copy. They already have a formula in place. But let’s be honest, you play this game because it costs nothing a month.

Is it really that hard to understand that people play games for fun?

Halanna.3927:

Nappychappy.7046:

I think that Anet is trying to hard to not be like Blizzard, which sucks because WoW copies a ton of great ideas. So basically Anet shuns great ideas for the sake of their own pride vs what makes games so dang fun.

If Anet made GW2 to be anything like WoW, I wouldn’t be here, and they wouldn’t be getting my gem money.

For players like me, their strategy is working.

This is how I feel also. ANet are making more money from me than they would if they charged me $15/month and the fact that this doesn’t even bother me must mean that they have done something right.

I won’t pay Blizzard $15/Month because I no longer like their game design, yet I happily fork over $100/Month in GW2 for gems because I enjoy their game and the direction they have taken.

Nappychappy.7046:

I think that Anet is trying to hard to not be like Blizzard, which sucks because WoW copies a ton of great ideas. So basically Anet shuns great ideas for the sake of their own pride vs what makes games so dang fun.

I’m GLAD they’re not trying to copy WoW. Have you not seen what happens to games that try to copy WoW?. The game could be better than WoW in every aspect, but, as soon as someone decides to label it a “WoW Clone”, everyone automatically turns they’re back on it.

Pustulio.8207:

Nappychappy.7046:

I think that Anet is trying to hard to not be like Blizzard, which sucks because WoW copies a ton of great ideas. So basically Anet shuns great ideas for the sake of their own pride vs what makes games so dang fun.

I’m GLAD they’re not trying to copy WoW. Have you not seen what happens to games that try to copy WoW?. The game could be better than WoW in every aspect, but, as soon as someone decides to label it a “WoW Clone”, everyone automatically turns they’re back on it.

So what you are saying is that if they use any IDEAS from WoW it is a WoW clone, but since WoW used so many great IDEAS from other games then WoW is still WoW?

I hate to break it to you, but the things in Gw2 are not 100% original ideas by anet developers.

Do you ever ask yourself “Since I believe WoW is so popular, why am I looking elsewhere?” I notice that most posters who decide to write about why GW2 is so wrong in what it’s doing always compare it to X mmo game. There is always a reason why the pop drops on WoW whenever a new mmo comes out. People want something different. People are tired of the grind, People want this or that. These people try other mmo’s, and when it doesn’t suit them, we get these posts. " Why doesn’t this game have x,y, or z?" It’s very important that when you decide to try a new mmo, you need to leave your preconceptions at the door. Bringing in the ideas and play styles that you have had from an earlier game will no doubt leave you unhappy, and feeling like something just isn’t right. Starting a new mmo is a lot like changing jobs, or becoming involved in a new relationship. It’s hard to drop the preconceptions you have had and nurtured for however long you have played these other games.

For many of us who have come to GW2, we longed to be away from the elitism, the never ending carrot, and the divisive community of that other mmo. We came here looking for a fresh start, new ideas, and a new way to escape from our normal lives a few hours a day or week. That’s what the game offers, for the most part.

This game has an entirely different mindset incorporated within it. It’s to have fun. That is why the items that are rarest are cosmetic, that is why pvp is based on teamwork and skill instead of gear checks, that is why if you don’t want to grind for that legendary, you don’t have to. If Anet decides to stick to their philosophy of fun over psychologically manipulating players to play, there will always be a unique and fun community here that is devoid of the trash talk and immaturity that is found in that other mmo. Hopefully, for my part, they stick to it.

1) The irony is that when they proclaimed they didn’t want “dungeon finder tools”, people came along and created sites like GW2LFG.com because of the huge demand for functional tools to form dungeon groups. In other words, the community had to step up to create a fix for a problem with the game. I absolutely agree, the game feels surprisingly anti-social considering how much it relies on zergs, especially in WvW.

2) Dynamic events do trigger much too often for my tastes, which spoils the experience a bit. That said, I don’t feel that the quests themselves are necessarily any more repetitive than other MMOs.

3) Agreed with the map. My map felt like a checklist, and considering it’s required to get a Legendary, it basically WAS a giant checklist. However, picking up events dynamically is WAY superior to standard questing and I would fight to the death with anyone claiming otherwise. :p

4) Totally disagree here. Level scaling is the best thing about this game, it keeps content relevant at all levels.

5) I’ve never felt obligated to replace my gear every few levels. In fact my ranger still doesn’t have a full set of exotics. So not seeing your point here at all.

6) The personal story is built around choice, for the most part. You can only work on two crafts at once, and only represent and contribute to one guild at a time. Honestly, there’s plenty of “choice”, just not the kind you want. And frankly, I don’t think greater restrictions provide more choice, I think greater freedom provides more choice.

7) Nope, their endgame concept fell flat on its face, and this was something that many of us expected when they first said they had no endgame. There’s lots to do, sure. Dungeons, WvW, Legendaries, etc. But it’s all grinding of a sort (yes, it is, don’t try to claim otherwise), which goes against their expression of a no-grind game. Frankly I think they need to revisit this promise, this may be the one promise they actually should break. Some endgame content would be appreciated.

8) WvW is honestly brilliant in this regard, because its chaotic nature allows for battles of various sizes and everyone gets to clash on an epic scale. It’s not always fair, no, but it is genuinely one of the most fun things I’ve seen in this game.

Some good points, some bad ones. Appreciate your thoughts and willingness to provide your opinion.

felivear.1536:

Anyway, thanks for the read and I hope this doesn’t come off as a QQ because it’s more of a constructive feedback post.

Sorry to break it to you, but some of the people in these forums will rip you apart if you raise so much as a velvet-gloved hand against the game they love. They can’t accept that the game isn’t perfect and they refuse to acknowledge its flaws.

Be prepared to have a lot of people tell you to go away and “stop trying to ruin their game” and to “go play other MMOs ’cuz GW2 is totes different lawlz”. Unfortunately, reality is starting to set in: GW2 isn’t in the position of power everyone claimed it would be (and despite competing against the Panda Pack, WoW is anything but dead), it’s got flaws and has made judgment errors that have convinced many people to give up on it, and now it’s having to dedicate multiple months of its release schedule towards fixing the game they have instead of adding lots of new content as intended. And yet, people still deny that there’s any problems, continuing to think WoW is just mere moments away from being toppled and that GW2 has already won the MMO arms race. It’s getting a bit depressing, following some of the posters here. It’s one thing to love a game, but the zealotry here isn’t going to help this game get better, it’s going to make it stagnate much earlier than it should.

I do think a lot of the issues you’ve described sound like GW2 wasn’t really your deal, but you’ve made some good points that the devs should give serious thought towards.

Nappychappy.7046:

Pustulio.8207:

Nappychappy.7046:

I think that Anet is trying to hard to not be like Blizzard, which sucks because *WoW copies a ton of great ideas*. So basically Anet shuns great ideas for the sake of their own pride vs what makes games so dang fun.

I’m *GLAD they’re not trying to copy WoW*. Have you not seen what happens to games that try to copy WoW?. The game could be better than WoW in every aspect, but, as soon as someone decides to label it a "WoW Clone", everyone automatically turns they’re back on it.

So what you are saying is that if they use any IDEAS from WoW it is a WoW clone, but since WoW used so many great IDEAS from other games then WoW is still WoW?

I hate to break it to you, but the things in Gw2 are not 100% original ideas by anet developers.

No, but, there IS a very large group of vocal people that DO see it that way. And, once they catch wind of it, they make it they’re goal to rally everyone on their side.

OMG....you mean GW isn’t original?!!!??? *let’s out a dramatic scream, while spinning around, and then ultimately collapsing onto the floor*

@OP: Developers have been designing community out of MMOs for awhile now. I guess you could say it started with WoW, but vanilla wasn’t quite as community disoriented as what I’ve seen over the past few years.

Apparently some players can’t be asked to play well with others; griefers and casuals are equally guilty.

Red Falcon.8257:

Then, and only then, you are ready to play a game based on fun.

Ha, thanks for the laugh. This is no more a game based on fun than traditional MMOs are.

Pustulio.8207:

Nappychappy.7046:

Pustulio.8207:

Nappychappy.7046:

I think that Anet is trying to hard to not be like Blizzard, which sucks because WoW copies a ton of great ideas. So basically Anet shuns great ideas for the sake of their own pride vs what makes games so dang fun.

I’m GLAD they’re not trying to copy WoW. Have you not seen what happens to games that try to copy WoW?. The game could be better than WoW in every aspect, but, as soon as someone decides to label it a “WoW Clone”, everyone automatically turns they’re back on it.

So what you are saying is that if they use any IDEAS from WoW it is a WoW clone, but since WoW used so many great IDEAS from other games then WoW is still WoW?

I hate to break it to you, but the things in Gw2 are not 100% original ideas by anet developers.

No, but, there IS a very large group of vocal people that DO see it that way. And, once they catch wind of it, they make it they’re goal to rally everyone on their side.

OMG….you mean GW isn’t original?!!!??? let’s out a dramatic scream, while spinning around, and then ultimately collapsing onto the floor

So true :/ So many people on this website going on about dynamic events and how amazing and innovative they are yet games like rift first introduced dynamic events.

Kakeru.2873:

So true :/ So many people on this website going on about dynamic events and how amazing and innovative they are yet games like rift first introduced dynamic events.

WAR’s public quests, but I’m sure we could go further back than that.

My favorite WAR PQ was one which had no tracking, and was fleshed out enough that the NPCs could cycle through the entire sequence if given enough time, with just enough random elements that neither outcome was guaranteed.

GW2 is the kind of game u come home tired from work and u can log in a do whatever da hell u want, u can PVE, PVP, WvW u can just jump in and have fun, that is why most of us love this game, there are no riad schedules or gear progression u have to do cuz otherwise nobody will want u on their groups, u don’t have to be on a guild and do guild events like it was a 2nd job. Hell no GW2 is casual and we love it this way, we log in and just have fun doing whaever da hell we want. We don’t feel tied to it, we can just stop playing for 3, 4 days and come back and eveything is the same u can just jump in into the fun. I think that is the target audience GW2 is aiming at, ppl who don’t want to feel a game is a 2nd job, ppl who just want to log and have fun to forget about real life problems just for a few hours.
It is not meant to be epic, just enjoyable, the combat feels great, the graphics are amazing it a beatifull looking game. Notice every single WoW clone has died fast, cuz ppl who likes that kind of game will just go back to WoW in the end. In the other hand a games like GW1 or Lineage 2 lived for over 9 years allready and coexisted with WoW from the very beggining, and the only reasson for that is cuz ppl who likes those game dislikes WoW and,¡ they loved those games cuz offered a different experience.
So even while i understand everything u said, i think u are very right to feel that way, but this game, may be, is just not for u cuz some of us actually love this game the way it is. I’m sure they will include more WoW like content in the future to try atract some players like u, but in the end, the game will allways be what it is.

On the other hand, a.net is very good at recruiting people like me, who only have 1 or 2 hours a day. The last two days I didn’t even finish my dailies due to lack of time. Do I care? Not in the slightest.

As far as scaling goes … even Sylvester Stallone, with all his experience, still has to fight an alligator. He can’t punch it with one hit. Scaling works that way. You are better, but not at an ungodly level. I personally believe this system is superior.

I think OP should just look for another game instead. The points you listed are pretty much the core of the game and therefore would not change much no matter what. GW2 is not the be all end all game so go you don’t have to try so hard to like it. I am sure you will find some other games that suits you more. I still like GW2 for now even though i have some issues with it myself.

Nappychappy.7046:

emikochan.8504:

Most games cost nothing per month, we play gw2 because its fun. It’s also not for everyone.

No game is.

Nothing is free.

We lose more that you think, just because this game is B2P.

Wait, what…? O_o

You lose more by not paying some archaic, nonsense fee. I’m sorry, but your reasoning makes no sense. The company still makes money from those who use the gem store to buy fun little items, while those who couldn’t care less can still enjoy the game to its fullest. They’re still funded to pump out content at a regular basis.

Moreover, the amount of sub-fee games are dwindling. The MMO industry changing, and any company that ignores this fact are just shooting themselves in the foot.

I also don’t quite agree with the OP. It smacks of overdramatizing to get the point across.
1) The grouping aspect of the game needs some work, but it becomes more and more evident that ANet is moving this game into a guild environment. We have guild DEs on the horizon and more guild content there after. Jumping from DE to DE is merely to pass the time, the true social part of the game comes from guilds.

2) I don’t get your point. Most MMOs have quests, and that’s about it. GW2 actually tries to reward players in more than one way, jumping puzzles, DEs, vistas, mini dungeons, world bosses, mini-games. The game is trying to innovate by giving players more. I will admit it falls a bit short, but if ANet keeps innovating and build on what they have, then it could be a success.

But saying the game tries to be different but everything is the same is just a lie. In what way is Skipping Stones, Keg Brawl, Flame Temple Tombs and the Claw of Jormag the same repetitive content?

3) So, there’s content for completionists. But because you’re not a completionist it means the content fails in its execution. So, if it’s not your cup of tea, then it’s bad? Yeah…
Anyway, in what way would you like to become aware of tasks in the area? Because floating exclamation marks sure aren’t organic either.

4) If a level 2 boar is giving your level 80 issues, then there’s something seriously wrong with your character. It’s far easier to kill a level 30 creature with your 80 than it was to kill that same creature back when you were 30. They don’t go down in one shot though, but it still feels like you’re squashing a pesky bug.

Continued below

5) No, if you’re level 60 and you have a level 25 weapon, your damage will be substantially less. This was the case with my ele. My fire claws did about 55 damage each, but when I found a level equivalent dagger, my damage jumped to 70. You probably haven’t noticed it, but your stats do change with better gear, no matter where you are or what level you’re scaled to.

6) “Guilds, you can join a bunch!” Yeah, unlike those games with only two guilds… and crafting? Seriously though, if you want to get your point across, you’re going to need a far more compelling argument to do so.

I do agree with you on the choice part. However, your point is a bit to the contrary of how I feel. To have more meaningful options, you need more options, not less. A good example is the trait system, for me. I’d like each trait to be more significant to modifying your gameplay style, and have less straight damage and cooldown traits. If the trait system was more expansive with more, stronger options, then you’d feel a lot more like a snowflake.

7) This is exactly where the level scaling system shines. However, the MAJOR problem is, it falls a bit flat. But if mini dungeons could award good loot; if jumping puzzles give better chests and stronger incentives to complete and do again; if mini-games have a currency system to do over and over; if meta events worked off accumulating rewards; and if world bosses had good rewards, and all of these were made compelling, then people would redo content without any problem.

There’s no issue with the entire world being end-game, but that should mean the entire world needs to be end-game viable. Basically, if dungeon drops were a bit better and completionist rewards were upped. And if the entire world was elevated to that level of rewards, then people would have no problem playing wherever they wanted.

8) Wv3 needs a lot of work, in my opinion. It has an amazing basis, but feels a little underdressed. I’m eager to see what ANet can do about this, because it’s one of the parts in the game that I feel needs the most work.

As I said, you blew a few things out of proportion, but you deserve to be pleased just like the rest of us. I think ANet went for something majorly new, and the game fell a bit flat in a few areas because they’re treading uncharted waters. I’m hopeful that they have and will learn more as development progresses so they can elevate this game into the amazing heights it deserves to be.

Grouping

I think this is more down to the simplicity of most of the events, and event scaling needing tweaking more than anything. For example, most of the events seem to be each-to-their-own, “how many mobs can I tag” type events. There’s no danger of failing, there’s no sense of adversity. And more often than not people come together under adversity.

However, there are some events that do require teamwork. The Shatterer when you don’t have a lot of people comes to mind: You need people to deal with the mobs, healing crystals, to operate the mortars, to break people out of crystals. Same with Tequatl. People to break the bone walls down, to defend the laser, to deal with mobs.

However, this is less required when there are more people, hence the event scaling needs tweaking for larger numbers.

As someone did mention before, we’ll soon be having Guild Missions. Not to mention Waypoint Zerging will be taken out of dungeons, and encounters being reworked which I feel will help promote teamwork.

Repetitiveness

Eh, I don’t find worse than other games. Although, the DE’s could use some more variety outside of Defend/Take back, Gather and Escort.

Questing

See, what I did as soon as I logged on for the first time was switch all icons off (you can do this by clicking the eye in the bottom left of the world map, and this will get rid of all of the PoI, Vista, Heart, TP, Bank ect icons), making it a blank slate.

Sure, I’ve only just reached 50% map completion, but I also have to stop and look around now for Vista’s. Explore every nook and cranny. Speak to Scouts, who then tell me what problems the area is having, thus gaining snippets of the story of the area.

Because of this I haven’t felt the checklist mentality, and it feels more immersive when I’m running around, helping an NPC when all of a sudden there’s an attack, than other MMO’s where you do a bunch of quests, move to the next hub, do them quests and nice and neatly ensures you’re level appropriate for the next area.

Downleveling

They got this right, I feel. Well, it needs to be harsher, but it’s a good mechanic to not only make old content re-playable, but to stop event griefing.

The way I see it is you can have all the experience and strength in the world, but if you’re careless, that kid with a knife could still kill you.

Gearing

Eh, I was never bothered about gearing in the other MMO’s. To me they were just stats that would be replaced anyway. However, in this game, if I found a piece of gear I liked the style of, I’d keep it to transmute later on.

Choosing

You make choices in your personal storyline. Sure, you can unlock every skill, but you have to choose which two weapon sets you’re equipping, and which heal, utility and elite you’re equipping, which could mean the difference between an easy or difficult fight. Same with Traits. You can only choose two crafting disciplines at a time.

And I’d argue when you said people don’t feel they made a bad choice. Have you not seen the Suggestion threads asking for the ability to have all Order armour?

End-Game

From the top of my head, I’d consider the following as end-game:

• Orr
• Fractals
• Achievement Hunting
• Dungeons
• Legendary Crafting
• WvW
• Map Completion
• Meta-events (although these need to be made more difficult when there’s more people)

ANet’s philosophy was that you shouldn’t play one style of game leveling, and then be thrown into a completely different style when you get to max level, or all the cool stuff being exclusive to max level.

OWPvP

You’re missing some stuff in the WvW:

• Recruiting NPC’s
• Roaming and Waylaying, attacking caravans, scouting for zergs (my fave activity)
• Defending Points

Just because there’s a zerg, doesn’t mean you have to join it

Also, lorewise, unless they made the anti-thesis to the races available (Flame Legion, Nightmare Court, Inquest ect), then OWPvP wouldn’t make much sense.

Hi everyone,

Thanks for these great contributions. Please keep the discussion friendly and constructive so that we might forward your ideas feedback to the team in case its needed.

Once again, thanks for your great contributions

Rampage.7145:

GW2 is the kind of game u come home tired from work and u can log in a do whatever da hell u want, u can PVE, PVP, WvW u can just jump in and have fun, that is why most of us love this game, there are no riad schedules or gear progression u have to do cuz otherwise nobody will want u on their groups, u don’t have to be on a guild and do guild events like it was a 2nd job. Hell no GW2 is casual and we love it this way, we log in and just have fun doing whaever da hell we want. We don’t feel tied to it, we can just stop playing for 3, 4 days and come back and eveything is the same u can just jump in into the fun. I think that is the target audience GW2 is aiming at, ppl who don’t want to feel a game is a 2nd job, ppl who just want to log and have fun to forget about real life problems just for a few hours.
It is not meant to be epic, just enjoyable, the combat feels great, the graphics are amazing it a beatifull looking game. Notice every single WoW clone has died fast, cuz ppl who likes that kind of game will just go back to WoW in the end. In the other hand a games like GW1 or Lineage 2 lived for over 9 years allready and coexisted with WoW from the very beggining, and the only reasson for that is cuz ppl who likes those game dislikes WoW and,¡ they loved those games cuz offered a different experience.
So even while i understand everything u said, i think u are very right to feel that way, but this game, may be, is just not for u cuz some of us actually love this game the way it is. I’m sure they will include more WoW like content in the future to try atract some players like u, but in the end, the game will allways be what it is.

I can log on after work and finish my legendary?!!? ZOMG!!!

Seriously though, you can do what you want if you don’t mind getting the shaft. I am sure like you, like me.. You don’t mind working 40/50 hours a week for nothing, then this game is right up your alley.

I’m not even really that “hardcore” and I burnt through gw2 quick, I have roughly the same hours in Skyrim as I do gw2, pretty weak mmo fo sho..

Azjenco.9425:

/snip

Those are game differences, irrelevant things when talking about B2P or Monthly sub.

Security – top notch 25m to 1h wait vs. wait 7+ days.
Support – again top notch vs. lolwut?
The entire game giving you options vs. limiting everything in order to monetize.
Has a deadline vs. work in progress (eventually excuse)
Many servers, many locations vs. centralized lagfest.

Fact is I could spend 500 a month in GW2 and it still wouldn’t offer anything close to what a measly 15 dollars a month would, and that is exactly why F2P is taking off, it’s no different that Rent a Center.. People think it’s such a great deal even though the item costs 5 times the amount it would to buy it outright.

Diminishing returns cost me dearly.

Nappychappy.7046:

Rampage.7145:

GW2 is the kind of game u come home tired from work and u can log in a do whatever da hell u want, u can PVE, PVP, WvW u can just jump in and have fun, that is why most of us love this game, there are no riad schedules or gear progression u have to do cuz otherwise nobody will want u on their groups, u don’t have to be on a guild and do guild events like it was a 2nd job. Hell no GW2 is casual and we love it this way, we log in and just have fun doing whaever da hell we want. We don’t feel tied to it, we can just stop playing for 3, 4 days and come back and eveything is the same u can just jump in into the fun. I think that is the target audience GW2 is aiming at, ppl who don’t want to feel a game is a 2nd job, ppl who just want to log and have fun to forget about real life problems just for a few hours.
It is not meant to be epic, just enjoyable, the combat feels great, the graphics are amazing it a beatifull looking game. Notice every single WoW clone has died fast, cuz ppl who likes that kind of game will just go back to WoW in the end. In the other hand a games like GW1 or Lineage 2 lived for over 9 years allready and coexisted with WoW from the very beggining, and the only reasson for that is cuz ppl who likes those game dislikes WoW and,¡ they loved those games cuz offered a different experience.
So even while i understand everything u said, i think u are very right to feel that way, but this game, may be, is just not for u cuz some of us actually love this game the way it is. I’m sure they will include more WoW like content in the future to try atract some players like u, but in the end, the game will allways be what it is.

I can log on after work and finish my legendary?!!? ZOMG!!!

Seriously though, you can do what you want if you don’t mind getting the shaft. I am sure like you, like me.. You don’t mind working 40/50 hours a week for nothing, then this game is right up your alley.

I’m not even really that “hardcore” and I burnt through gw2 quick, I have roughly the same hours in Skyrim as I do gw2, pretty weak mmo fo sho..

Then….why are you playing? Why would you decide to play a game that isn’t fun to you, unless you just want to troll? People normally play games they like, not games they dislike. Seems like a simple choice, don’t do things you don’t like to do with your free time. Are the devs kidnapping people and locking them in a room with this game or something?

I agree with you on the rewards system. I’d love it if the rewards for DEs, area champions, etc. were beefed up a bit. Right now, the biggest reward I get for doing DEs with my level 80 is some karma, but there’s next to nothing for me to buy with all this lovely karma. A little more quality and a little more variety would be really nice for my capped character at this point.

I would just like to make a couple of observations….they neither support nor flame the OP….I don’t think there is a right/wrong answer.

1. Many “player” issues are exactly that….things only players can address. Things like boredom, propensity to grind, appreciation of rewards, attention spans, need for new stuff are not uniform across the player spectrum so there IS NO ONE ANSWER the devs can hone in to fix all things up…and nor should they..there are just not enough resources. It doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do what they can but there is a limit.
2. Devs cannot fix all issues for all players because of 1.
3. “original ideas” which work for the MMO genre are really hard to come by. The ANet devs are NOT the font of all wisdom in this regard and should listen more to the wider MMO community and extremely talented player base for feedback. Many times, and not only with this MMO but also that other “elephant in the room”, you can almost see the devs trying as hard as possible to incorporate a player idea without appearing to do so…just silly. Not that the game design is a democracy (to quote GC) but good ideas are good ideas no matter where they come from….devs, players, other games or the broader community.
4. We all eventually change our perceptions over time….what seemed good/captivating yesterday may not hold true tomorrow.

Just my own thoughts.

Nappychappy.7046:

Those are game differences, irrelevant things when talking about B2P or Monthly sub.

I’m not quite sure what you mean by “game differences”, nor how my statements were irrelevant.

Nappychappy.7046:

Fact is I could spend 500 a month in GW2 and it still wouldn’t offer anything close to what a measly 15 dollars a month would, and that is exactly why F2P is taking off, it’s no different that Rent a Center.. People think it’s such a great deal even though the item costs 5 times the amount it would to buy it outright.

Diminishing returns cost me dearly.

You needn’t spend 500 or even 10 bucks a month, or even a year, because you’ll receive the monthly content without ever buying a gem.
But in comparison to what, exactly? What does other MMOs offer for 15 a month? The only MMO that really pumps out steady content is Rift, almost each month. WoW takes months to release content, and then it mostly just covers raids, maybe also some dailies, all just to keep their treadmill going, and even then, Blizzard takes forever to release patches.

Unless you can give concrete examples, I don’t really see how GW2 being B2P causes you to loose out on anything.

what i want to know is how did gw1 (which wasn’t even an mmo) managed to have good end game and gw2 has no end game at all?

Mirta.5029:

from what you mentioned if Guild Wars 2 was different and suited your needs perfectly, some of the points made would get me away from playing it.
1. Leveling in most MMOs is a soloable process. When it comes to dungeons, fractals and the last story mission you are forced to group. In my opinion there’s enough party and enough solo content. If suddenly the rest of PVE forced you to party up I would feel really uncomfortable.
2-3 it’s pretty much how all MMOs and most RPGs work. I can’t really imagine a different system so I don’t even know how to comment of this one.
4. I praise the game for downscaling and I don’t think I would play if it wasn’t there. Downscaling is good when you’re helping a friend in a lower zone, downscaling prevents level 80s from farming starter zones. Downscaling feels realistic. If you fought a bear, then a tiger, then a bear again, would your second bear fight be any easier?
5. I keep gear pieces for 20-40 levels sometimes. I tend to search for good looking skins for the end game too. I enjoy gear, but at the same time I’m happy that it doesn’t influence the game that much. Skill > Gear is always a sign of a good game to me.
7. The whole game is an end game. What end game would you find in a different game? Dungeons? There in this game as well. PvP? Check. What else is there to do in a different MMO? Raid for gear? Then what? In GW 2 you can as well spend your time doing dungeons, fractals, WvW, PvP, search for skins, do full explore, do jumping puzzles, complete your personal story, level alts… You can do the same things you can do in a different MMO end game. The difference is that some MMOs have so much gear progression and are so grindy that nobody reaches the endgame.

Dude. Stop fanboying ANET. They made a great game, its fun, it was a success, but no, everything you said is wrong.

Hes mainly complaining that it has no end game, which this games DOESNT HAVE. The closest to end game it has is Fractals, and the rewards in that zone only affect THAT ZONE. Self defeating yes?

We want scaling, but we want the option to scale. In WoW, and EQ2, you talk to someone that down levels you to whatever you want, or you MENTOR someone, allowing you to downscale as well while providing an xp bonus to that person. Its kinda silly being decked out in full exotics level 80 on FotM 30 and yet you can still possibly die to a lvl 20 zone? We want the option to scale, not it forced. Example being, if your too high of a level for the zone your in, u dont get drops, but can still complete events and quests. Durp?

You keeping gear for 20-40 levels isnt a plus. It means the game is that easy that your able to do that, and also that your probably a huge detriment to your group if your running 80+ zones.

The game is new, and I like it, but even after 2 months now Im getting bored. The lack of anything to shoot for other than a legendary (which is just a skin lol….) is really whats making people leave.

I say, put in better gear, but in raids, put in hard content cuz you know what…. it doesnt affect ANYONE that isnt doing it in anyway.

Azjenco.9425:

Nappychappy.7046:

Those are game differences, irrelevant things when talking about B2P or Monthly sub.

I’m not quite sure what you mean by “game differences”, nor how my statements were irrelevant.

Nappychappy.7046:

Fact is I could spend 500 a month in GW2 and it still wouldn’t offer anything close to what a measly 15 dollars a month would, and that is exactly why F2P is taking off, it’s no different that Rent a Center.. People think it’s such a great deal even though the item costs 5 times the amount it would to buy it outright.

Diminishing returns cost me dearly.

You needn’t spend 500 or even 10 bucks a month, or even a year, because you’ll receive the monthly content without ever buying a gem.
But in comparison to what, exactly? What does other MMOs offer for 15 a month? The only MMO that really pumps out steady content is Rift, almost each month. WoW takes months to release content, and then it mostly just covers raids, maybe also some dailies, all just to keep their treadmill going, and even then, Blizzard takes forever to release patches.

Unless you can give concrete examples, I don’t really see how GW2 being B2P causes you to loose out on anything.

Other games focus on there most loyal and elitist players. You know, the people that stick with the game longer, spend more time on it, and are in fact BETTER than 99% of the rest of its players. They create content that these players strive to beat, because it keeps them there, as well as all the sheeple that arent at that tier of play yet, because omgosh… Having places with better items and harder mobs doesnt affect a player that DOESNT WANT to do that… lol

I’m a little confused at OP.

You like pvp, but you complain about lacking endgame.

I thought PVP was the endgame. You level up, learn to play, gear up, and pvp.

Perhaps the issue is build variety. Because of the way ANet utterly destroys builds instead of doing a proper job ‘toning them down’, and never buffs builds until all the rest are utter trash, you end up with everyone in a given profession running the same build.

I can see how it can become monotonous I guess if you can always count on the same combos from the same profession.

ATTHWSM.7840:

Mirta.5029:

from what you mentioned if Guild Wars 2 was different and suited your needs perfectly, some of the points made would get me away from playing it.
1. Leveling in most MMOs is a soloable process. When it comes to dungeons, fractals and the last story mission you are forced to group. In my opinion there’s enough party and enough solo content. If suddenly the rest of PVE forced you to party up I would feel really uncomfortable.
2-3 it’s pretty much how all MMOs and most RPGs work. I can’t really imagine a different system so I don’t even know how to comment of this one.
4. I praise the game for downscaling and I don’t think I would play if it wasn’t there. Downscaling is good when you’re helping a friend in a lower zone, downscaling prevents level 80s from farming starter zones. Downscaling feels realistic. If you fought a bear, then a tiger, then a bear again, would your second bear fight be any easier?
5. I keep gear pieces for 20-40 levels sometimes. I tend to search for good looking skins for the end game too. I enjoy gear, but at the same time I’m happy that it doesn’t influence the game that much. Skill > Gear is always a sign of a good game to me.
7. The whole game is an end game. What end game would you find in a different game? Dungeons? There in this game as well. PvP? Check. What else is there to do in a different MMO? Raid for gear? Then what? In GW 2 you can as well spend your time doing dungeons, fractals, WvW, PvP, search for skins, do full explore, do jumping puzzles, complete your personal story, level alts… You can do the same things you can do in a different MMO end game. The difference is that some MMOs have so much gear progression and are so grindy that nobody reaches the endgame.

Dude. Stop fanboying ANET. They made a great game, its fun, it was a success, but no, everything you said is wrong.

Hes mainly complaining that it has no end game, which this games DOESNT HAVE. The closest to end game it has is Fractals, and the rewards in that zone only affect THAT ZONE. Self defeating yes?

We want scaling, but we want the option to scale. In WoW, and EQ2, you talk to someone that down levels you to whatever you want, or you MENTOR someone, allowing you to downscale as well while providing an xp bonus to that person. Its kinda silly being decked out in full exotics level 80 on FotM 30 and yet you can still possibly die to a lvl 20 zone? We want the option to scale, not it forced. Example being, if your too high of a level for the zone your in, u dont get drops, but can still complete events and quests. Durp?

You keeping gear for 20-40 levels isnt a plus. It means the game is that easy that your able to do that, and also that your probably a huge detriment to your group if your running 80+ zones.

The game is new, and I like it, but even after 2 months now Im getting bored. The lack of anything to shoot for other than a legendary (which is just a skin lol….) is really whats making people leave.

I say, put in better gear, but in raids, put in hard content cuz you know what…. it doesnt affect ANYONE that isnt doing it in anyway.

Replace every instance of the word “we” in your post and replace with “I” before you post an opinion. Which is what you posted, an opinion.

ATTHWSM.7840:

Mirta.5029:

from what you mentioned if Guild Wars 2 was different and suited your needs perfectly, some of the points made would get me away from playing it.
1. Leveling in most MMOs is a soloable process. When it comes to dungeons, fractals and the last story mission you are forced to group. In my opinion there’s enough party and enough solo content. If suddenly the rest of PVE forced you to party up I would feel really uncomfortable.
2-3 it’s pretty much how all MMOs and most RPGs work. I can’t really imagine a different system so I don’t even know how to comment of this one.
4. I praise the game for downscaling and I don’t think I would play if it wasn’t there. Downscaling is good when you’re helping a friend in a lower zone, downscaling prevents level 80s from farming starter zones. Downscaling feels realistic. If you fought a bear, then a tiger, then a bear again, would your second bear fight be any easier?
5. I keep gear pieces for 20-40 levels sometimes. I tend to search for good looking skins for the end game too. I enjoy gear, but at the same time I’m happy that it doesn’t influence the game that much. Skill > Gear is always a sign of a good game to me.
7. The whole game is an end game. What end game would you find in a different game? Dungeons? There in this game as well. PvP? Check. What else is there to do in a different MMO? Raid for gear? Then what? In GW 2 you can as well spend your time doing dungeons, fractals, WvW, PvP, search for skins, do full explore, do jumping puzzles, complete your personal story, level alts… You can do the same things you can do in a different MMO end game. The difference is that some MMOs have so much gear progression and are so grindy that nobody reaches the endgame.

Dude. Stop fanboying ANET. They made a great game, its fun, it was a success, but no, everything you said is wrong.

Hes mainly complaining that it has no end game, which this games DOESNT HAVE. The closest to end game it has is Fractals, and the rewards in that zone only affect THAT ZONE. Self defeating yes?

We want scaling, but we want the option to scale. In WoW, and EQ2, you talk to someone that down levels you to whatever you want, or you MENTOR someone, allowing you to downscale as well while providing an xp bonus to that person. Its kinda silly being decked out in full exotics level 80 on FotM 30 and yet you can still possibly die to a lvl 20 zone? We want the option to scale, not it forced. Example being, if your too high of a level for the zone your in, u dont get drops, but can still complete events and quests. Durp?

You keeping gear for 20-40 levels isnt a plus. It means the game is that easy that your able to do that, and also that your probably a huge detriment to your group if your running 80+ zones.

The game is new, and I like it, but even after 2 months now Im getting bored. The lack of anything to shoot for other than a legendary (which is just a skin lol….) is really whats making people leave.

I say, put in better gear, but in raids, put in hard content cuz you know what…. it doesnt affect ANYONE that isnt doing it in anyway.

1. Don’t use we and talk as if you’re the majority.
2. Not fanboying, expressing my opinion. WoW’s end game was raids. You got armor. That’s it. Endgames of GW2 and WoW are alike if you count how many dungeon paths there are and how many dungeons WoW has.
3. If scaling was only an option I would quit. You enter a low level area, kill everything in seconds to grief preventing people from leveling. This is not WoW, this is GW2, if you want WoW go and play it.
4. People being able to complete fractals levels 20+ in whites proves that the game is about skill and not gear. It’s a good thing. You actually have to learn to play.
5. If you want raids, go to WoW, this isn’t WoW.

I agree about open-world pvp. It’s fun and adds an interesting mechanic to leveling/exploring but I cannot possibly see how they could have implemented it with the lore/story because there are no factions.

The only way I could see them implementing it is to force all zones outside of major cities into overflows that way other server players would turn into enemies and be able to kill you at any time. Though this would completely detract from the whole community feel though, such as helping others and joining in on quests to take down a veteran or champion.

Just don’t really see how they could implement it in a logical working manner to be honest.

Nuka Cola.8520:

what i want to know is how did gw1 (which wasn’t even an mmo) managed to have good end game and gw2 has no end game at all?

You are thinking of GWEN GW1, and not vanilla GW1. This is vanilla GW2, give them some time to flesh out endgame stuff with expansions.

i felt i reached the end of this game when i finished the story and got 100% map completion. i may farm and do dungeons and stuff to, but i think the end was over when i finished those things. so to me id like to see about 10 more areas unlocked and a new storyline, but i guess we will have to wait for an expansion to get that.

Mirta.5029:

ATTHWSM.7840:

I say, put in better gear, but in raids, put in hard content cuz you know what…. it doesnt affect ANYONE that isnt doing it in anyway.

1. Don’t use we and talk as if you’re the majority.
2. Not fanboying, expressing my opinion. WoW’s end game was raids. You got armor. That’s it. Endgames of GW2 and WoW are alike if you count how many dungeon paths there are and how many dungeons WoW has.
3. If scaling was only an option I would quit. You enter a low level area, kill everything in seconds to grief preventing people from leveling. This is not WoW, this is GW2, if you want WoW go and play it.
4. People being able to complete fractals levels 20+ in whites proves that the game is about skill and not gear. It’s a good thing. You actually have to learn to play.
5. If you want raids, go to WoW, this isn’t WoW.

You reference WoW, and forget about EQ2, RIFT, WAR…. wow man. The end game is nothing alike. Getting 20+ people together to properly learn a script, overcome an insanely difficult dungeon, and being REWARDED with ITEMS that let you progress onto the NEXT challenge… that is most mmos.

GW2… guess what? The second you hit 80, you have the best gear the game has to offer aside from fractals. You can run every dungeon, every event, every karma merchant… and guess what? Your items are EXACTLY the same, you can still run every dungeon exactly like you did before… you just look cooler now.

Honestly, you sound like a WoW hater that never got into raids, and never saw the end game. I didnt even play WoW lol… its just a reference point. I played EQ2 for 7 years and LOVED it because there was always something out of my reach that I had to progress for.

This game… you hit 80, you buy the exotic set you want, and you have the best gear in the game. Then whats left? Map completion? Ya that is fun, legit its fun ONE TIME. What next? WvW? Completely without skill it comes down to what server has the most people on participating in WvW. If you disagree you have never really put time into WvW.

People defend this game and take up torches for no reason when more hardcore (if you can really say that about this game) players say they want an end game worth progressing to. Why does this forums population rage out as if it affects them? So a guild that takes the time to learn scripts, and accomplish large scale raids or dungeons gets better loot than you because YOU dont wanna do that? Who cares? Why does that affect your gameplay?

Lastly, you are silly for thinking people would take the time to grief people out of completing quests if there was no scaling. Just wow man, WOW to you. People are going to run through level 20 zones, and nuke everything down in one hit for zero reward for hours on end because thats what we do I guess? lololol.

The game is designed around more of a horizontal progression when compared to WoW. Horizontal vs Vertical, that’s a matter of taste.

There’s much more to the game than just progressing, and please don’t say hardcore players want vertical progression because “hardcore” has many different perspectives.

The good points of the end game on GW2 is that you’re not forced to get gear for stats (well, you do have to get gear a bit to start off lol). So what does it boil down to? Skills. Skills along and enjoying the dungeon fights and actually playing the game for fun instead of just gearing up and up and up. Now, you can argue that gearing up is fun itself, and I agree since I found it fun when I played other MMOs. But GW2 is different, and I like the taste it gives.

Scaling is something I thought is brilliant. You have great game content throughout the world, so why not? It’s actually enjoyable to level where I want without being tied down by “Oh, this zone is too low level, time to just skip it”. You do get stronger if you’re a high level going to a low level, but you’re not going to just one shot an event boss. Is it more “hardcore” and harder to play solo? Yes, downleveling does make the game more challenging. Now, I can see some types of people who dislike it, but those people usually enjoy destroying low level NPCs in other MMOs. Basically, downleveling adds more replay in the game.

Also, we know there’s going to be more dungeons, and possibly raids later as the game gets its patches. You won’t get a gear treadmill but you got your endgame there. Do all the dungeons, all the story mode, all the explorable paths, and that’s your endgame. But remember, your goal is to have fun, not to gear up and up and up. That’s GW2’s design and it’s different from most MMOs for that reason.

ATTHWSM.7840:

You reference WoW, and forget about EQ2, RIFT, WAR…. wow man. The end game is nothing alike. Getting 20+ people together to properly learn a script, overcome an insanely difficult dungeon, and being REWARDED with ITEMS that let you progress onto the NEXT challenge… that is most mmos.

GW2… guess what? The second you hit 80, you have the best gear the game has to offer aside from fractals. You can run every dungeon, every event, every karma merchant… and guess what? Your items are EXACTLY the same, you can still run every dungeon exactly like you did before… you just look cooler now.

Honestly, you sound like a WoW hater that never got into raids, and never saw the end game. I didnt even play WoW lol… its just a reference point. I played EQ2 for 7 years and LOVED it because there was always something out of my reach that I had to progress for.

This game… you hit 80, you buy the exotic set you want, and you have the best gear in the game. Then whats left? Map completion? Ya that is fun, legit its fun ONE TIME. What next? WvW? Completely without skill it comes down to what server has the most people on participating in WvW. If you disagree you have never really put time into WvW.

People defend this game and take up torches for no reason when more hardcore (if you can really say that about this game) players say they want an end game worth progressing to. Why does this forums population rage out as if it affects them? So a guild that takes the time to learn scripts, and accomplish large scale raids or dungeons gets better loot than you because YOU dont wanna do that? Who cares? Why does that affect your gameplay?

Lastly, you are silly for thinking people would take the time to grief people out of completing quests if there was no scaling. Just wow man, WOW to you. People are going to run through level 20 zones, and nuke everything down in one hit for zero reward for hours on end because thats what we do I guess? lololol.

I personally did play WoW and gear disparity and the gap between gear ever getting bigger was a real problem. Why would you chose to level an alt if there’s yet another expansion with yet another raid for your main and without doing it you’re nothing in WvW? It’s hours after hours after hours of grinding.
You might not like it, but I prefer it the way Guild Wars 2 does it. You’re level 80, here are your choices how to obtain the top gear, now you’re free to experience everything and have fun. Level an alt, the content won’t run away and your alt won’t be underpowered. Go to a fair PvP, explore WvW, go dungeoning.
This game will never have raids, because a) group finding would be too difficult. Look at how hard it is to get a specific path of a specific dungeon and a specific gameplay type that you like. That’s getting 5 people b) raids were created to make a gear treadmill. This game has none. Would you still like a raid if it only gave you tokens and gear of the same level as dungeon gear?
Griefing was another problem in WoW. People did run the easy zones to kill noobs. Personally you don’t like downscaling? Look at how many games that don’t have it! In fact this is the only one that does have it, meaning that if you want your game to have no challenge if you will ever feel to do events and quests in lower zones you have a broad variety of MMOs to choose from.
You see you are the one that’s complaining that this game is not like a different game. And guess what? This game is different, because it is a different game. There are lots of different games out there with different mechanics. There’s a large variety of MMOs to pick from. If you feel like this one does not fulfill your needs why are you yelling at the people that like it instead of trying to find a game that does fulfill your needs?