Guild Wars 2

Yesterday i completed an explorer set in order to get as much mf as i can afford.
so now i got 78 % mf and i tried do some dungeons to get rare stuff, but i got nothin.
did i do something wrong? i mean is there a better way to get those stuff or i just dont have luck ?!

Get gear with actually usefull stats → do more damage → clear dungeons faster → get more items.
Now you know it.

^ As he said.

MF makes you less effective and slows your group down. Use runes and sigils that are usefull for your build.

I remember someone mentioning that MF is broken and actually causes your MF chance go down if stacked too high. But that was a month ago, so it may be fixed already.

I made an exotic set and got with all buffs and food possible 218% MF. that`s the highest possible in the game.

The difference is somewhat noticeable on the quality of drops but very very little. Btw MF doesn`t work on dungeon chests.

I run omnomberry bars in dungeons so I get the +% of coin from monsters (notable difference on the Troll in AC and the like) but for gear, I run stats that are useful. Sometimes I get rare loot, sometimes I don’t But… it’s RARE. If rare drops had lower scarcity, they would have less value.

If you want to farm rares, dungeons are not the place to farm rares. Go to Orr and do mindless event chains that spawn waves of easily killed mobs. More kills = more chances of a rare drop.

k thanks, so i understand from that that mf is not os usefull to get money with unless i do what the last comment says?
no us in dungeons at all

ScryPex.6830:

Yesterday i completed an explorer set in order to get as much mf as i can afford.
so now i got 78 % mf and i tried do some dungeons to get rare stuff, but i got nothin.
did i do something wrong? i mean is there a better way to get those stuff or i just dont have luck ?!

What did you expect it to do? Assuming it works correctly, your chance is 78% higher then it was before, so instead of the base chance of 0.001 (made up number) to pull a rare from a mob, it is now 0.00178 . You are in no way guaranteed to get anything, even if you stacked mf up to 1000% (which is not possible).

wintermute.4096:

ScryPex.6830:

Yesterday i completed an explorer set in order to get as much mf as i can afford.
so now i got 78 % mf and i tried do some dungeons to get rare stuff, but i got nothin.
did i do something wrong? i mean is there a better way to get those stuff or i just dont have luck ?!

What did you expect it to do? Assuming it works correctly, your chance is 78% higher then it was before, so instead of the base chance of 0.001 (made up number) to pull a rare from a mob, it is now 0.00178 . You are in no way guaranteed to get anything, even if you stacked mf up to 1000% (which is not possible).

hahaha really? 0.001? well if i knew i wouldnt craft this set from the first place.
thanks i guess ill jsut do fast dungeons and events on orr like ppl said here before

The whole MF thing in terms of gear was to create a risk/reward dynamic where you traded survivability for increased chance of loot. It has a history of not working well in dungeons or when players are otherwise relying upon each other for obvious reason. Lots of resentment toward ‘selfish’ players in high MF gear. Post 80, I gear for maximum damage/survival and use omnomberry for a bit of MF.

Most of the posters here just plainly lied.
YES, MF helps you get better loot. It doesn’t work with chests but only with loot from mobs.
The difference in “kill speed” between a MF set and a dps set is very low, and you will likely never notice it.
You need more than 78%, btw.

KICKER.3874:

I made an exotic set and got with all buffs and food possible 218% MF. that`s the highest possible in the game.

The difference is somewhat noticeable on the quality of drops but very very little. Btw MF doesn`t work on dungeon chests.

Do you have both MF ascended rings? if not you dont have the highest.

Fuz.5621:

Most of the posters here just plainly lied.
YES, MF helps you get better loot. It doesn’t work with chests but only with loot from mobs.
The difference in “kill speed” between a MF set and a dps set is very low, and you will likely never notice it.
You need more than 78%, btw.

That’s garbage and spoken like a true MF wearer defending his actions. MF is barely noticeable, if at all. I’ve run full MF sets and broke them down for ectos because of the little to no difference.

Also claiming you are just as effective is laughable. I can tell you right off the bat, my defense and offense were both hindered by wearing MF. Anyone that says otherwise obviously uses it and wants to justify it.

hindered, yes. but going from 3000 to 2800 is not a big difference. might make you 93% as survivable. so instead of dead in 5 hits, you’re dead in 4.64 hits. Sure, it’s something, but not something to worry about. If you find 2x as much stuff but kill 93% as much of it, it’s clear which is more profitable. (I use my pvp set pretty much only for pvp, wvw, and high level fractals. everything else I’ve played is ez either way)

I should do an effectivity comparison between my mf and pvp sets… it would be good to get hard numbers. I’ll reply again when I get home and add up the numbers

I’d love to see a debate on this issue where both sides used substantial quantifiable data rather than observations.

Those debating should show what the impact of MF is if “useful” stats in gear are sacrificed for MF. They should show what the difference is in numbers and then run substantial live tests to see the difference in damage dealt and mitigated damage. Different tests should also be done for those that have all gear with MF versus just runes.

Substantial tests should be done to determine the beneficial impact that MF has. This will likely require tremendous amount of data due to drop rates and randomness.

Until both sides do this, any argument is basically observational and holds no weight. I personally don’t care which side is correct.

In my experience, MF doesn’t make a noticeable difference except when somebody uses too much of it, then it becomes a bad thing for everyone, including that player. My advice: remove magic find because it’s counter-productive to a game built around social cooperation.

Magic Find doesn’t actually increase drop rates. It raises the value of the loot you get instead.

To quote Isiah Cartwright explaining how magic find works.: “Everytime you kill a monster you roll on a number of tables, inside these tables are different rarity categories. Magic find increases the chances you will get higher categories. For example if there is a 1 in 10 category, and you have 200% magic find you will have 3/10 chances to get that category. This improves not just the rarity of the items you get but can also improve your chances at getting trophies and rare crafting materials like lodestones.”

ACTUALLY someone recently killed a few thousand mobs & did the math…

At this time, it does the exact opposite; it doesn’t give an appreciable boost to higher item tiers, and is instead increasing the number of mobs that drop (BUT all those additional drops are trash drops; as in ‘grey’/‘junk’)

Also, I got on one of my level 50 alts a while back and leveled to 80 by just derping around… turns out I was getting far more rares (netted 10 in a day from just derping, whereas I’m lucky to get 4 or 5 doing proper farming with over 100% MF on my main who now isn’t using MF gear anymore because its being practically worthless and I’m now using the TP for nearly all of my income nowadays… Ironic that I can make 20g a day with some extremely tame minimal-risk, minimal-time-used flipping while farming netted me only 14g on my very best day)

The influence of MF on getting rares is miniscule. So out of 0.001% drop rate you get maybe what 0.025% ? Also note there’s an anti-farming/diminishing returns system in the game. As you kill longer in the same general area.. the chance for you to get drops reduces. It’s there to hamper the bots.

Don’t wear MF gear in dungeons you will just become a liability

I have a complete set of MF gear on my ranger, including a superior luck sigil on a bow, that I use exclusively for farming (never in anything like a dungeon). When I add a 30% food buff and a 10% guild banner I do notice a difference in the value of my drops.
However, quite honestly, I find that what has the biggest impact on loot is not MF at all, but rather, being in a full group.
Also, I have found that in order to even see the effects of MF, you need to have it over 100.

Avan.1540:

ACTUALLY someone recently killed a few thousand mobs & did the math…

At this time, it does the exact opposite; it doesn’t give an appreciable boost to higher item tiers, and is instead increasing the number of mobs that drop (BUT all those additional drops are trash drops; as in ‘grey’/‘junk’)

Also, I got on one of my level 50 alts a while back and leveled to 80 by just derping around… turns out I was getting far more rares (netted 10 in a day from just derping, whereas I’m lucky to get 4 or 5 doing proper farming with over 100% MF on my main who now isn’t using MF gear anymore because its being practically worthless and I’m now using the TP for nearly all of my income nowadays… Ironic that I can make 20g a day with some extremely tame minimal-risk, minimal-time-used flipping while farming netted me only 14g on my very best day)

Firstly in future, please do not make assertions that there is data supporting your claim unless you can link the data as well… Otherwise I have to assume you are simply making an assertion and trying to claim it has some evidential weight behind it but were unable to demonstrate such.

Secondly I will amend what I said to this… Magic find does not give you additional rolls for loot.
The amount of rolls remains the same, however your roll gets a modifier on it, increasing its chance to get a higher number.

So say the game rolls a d100…
1-25 means you get no loot.
26-50 means you get vendor trash,
51-60 means you common,
61-70 means you get uncommon
71-80 means you get masterwork
81-90 means you get rare
and 91 to 100 means you get exotic.

by wearing magic find you add a modifier to your rolls… for the sake of this exercise, its going to be +10.
What this effectively does is reduces the overall loot roll to 10-90 instead of 1-100. Meaning you have less chance landing on no loot and much higher chance landing on greys when rolling low numbers.

This would mean there would be a slight precievable increase in grey items but a much harder to precieve increase in rare items. More compacted by the fact that any roll above 90 is effectively wasted. As it’s not going to push you into a higher tier.

If I remember, it was based on observation over a period of time. Whiles it was on the right track, it’s not definitive. The argument about the effectiveness of MF vs no MF has no relation to time. This makes time used as a variable less meaningful and can obscure results.

However if the speed of killing mobs between those with MF vs those without MF was being asked, then that observation would be more valid assuming it has facts. There are many variables that can impact downtime so the speed each mob is killed should be recorded. Downtime should be ignored as equipment has no impact. One could make the argument of needing to heal but that time would have to separately be recorded than lumping it with downtime finding the next mob.

For someone to properly test MF, they’d have to log the number of mobs killed, the quantity of loot dropped based on quality, the quantity of no loot dropped, and the % of MF used. Different percentages should be used ranging from 0% to the max. Time as a factor is irrelevant.

This is just a rough example that I thought of during my break. I’m sure it can be improved upon.

karma.8763:

KICKER.3874:

I made an exotic set and got with all buffs and food possible 218% MF. that`s the highest possible in the game.

The difference is somewhat noticeable on the quality of drops but very very little. Btw MF doesn`t work on dungeon chests.

Do you have both MF ascended rings? if not you dont have the highest.

ok genius with both ascended rings u get 6 more MF.

the only thing I forgot to add is guild banner so I can actually get 228 and max possible in the game is 6 more on top.

the point was that even with over 200% MF the drops were just barely noticeable, if at all, but dmg dropped by a lot. people who use MF are getting carried by others, both in dungeons and in farm groups

Magic Find is a scam/useless stat. Run whatever gear you need, then get MF from food. Most rares come from throwing greens in the forge.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Making-Magic-Find-Useful/first#post1028882

Meh… people in magic find are no less hindering than glass cannons running around dying all the time. In fact… glass cannons running around dying all the time from a single hit are MUCH MORE hindering than anyone who sacrificed a single stat for higher loot percent.

Wear what you want to OP… if anyone has a problem with it, they aren’t the sort of players you want to run with anyway.

bluewanders.5297:

Meh… people in magic find are no less hindering than glass cannons running around dying all the time. In fact… glass cannons running around dying all the time from a single hit are MUCH MORE hindering than anyone who sacrificed a single stat for higher loot percent.

Wear what you want to OP… if anyone has a problem with it, they aren’t the sort of players you want to run with anyway.

MF users are 10 levels below a glass cannon.

Explorers armor/accessories/weapons (power/precision/magic find) vs Berserkers armor armor/accesories/weapons (power/precision/+critical damage)

both are glass cannons but the other one is better in killing stuff. guess which is it.

And now lets compare Explorers and Knights

Explorers armor/accessories/weapons (power/precision/magic find) vs Knights armor armor/accesories/weapons (power/precision/toughness)

Which is more likely to get One Shotted? I know the answer, do you?

I was hoping to see some quantitative analysis with real and actual data on how MF negatively affects dungeons runs, but as usual, I have to be disappointed. The anti-mf crowd pulls anecdotes, stories instead of numbers.

Exactly… as I said… wear what you want to wear… just don’t be a bad.

The only real way to hinder your team is to be on your back the whole fight.

Aside from the rants about not wearing magic find in dungeons, magic find is currently now working as advertised (so to speak) … wearing magic find you get less drops (including less equipment), but you get more fines, bags and salvageable material. The thread talking about the drop rates touches on magic find not working as advertised.

I have 140%+ mf rate, counted for three weeks, and no big difference.

so yeah, go get stats build and farm slightly faster.

ScryPex.6830:

Yesterday i completed an explorer set in order to get as much mf as i can afford.
so now i got 78 % mf and i tried do some dungeons to get rare stuff, but i got nothin.
did i do something wrong? i mean is there a better way to get those stuff or i just dont have luck ?!

despite all this “you must be geared properly and level 80 to run dungeons” nonsense, I will answer the OP’s question.

MF numbers much be above 250% for it to have a significant affect on drops (at least with my experience) and often will not drop anything unless it’s this high.

DR seems to have a bug where it is actually almost a permanent thing when activates, activates across all characters of an account, and has no timer to turn it off.

I wore about 45% MF, and my drops went to zip.

I took it off, so i had not 1% of magic find and within the next hour got a corrupted lodestone and an exotic soloing a random world champ (non-event).

MF is bugged, i’d remove all of it if I were you.

plasmacutter.2709:

I wore about 45% MF, and my drops went to zip.

I took it off, so i had not 1% of magic find and within the next hour got a corrupted lodestone and an exotic soloing a random world champ (non-event).

MF is bugged, i’d remove all of it if I were you.

Agreed. MF ruins your drops. Ironic.

buki.3108:

plasmacutter.2709:

I wore about 45% MF, and my drops went to zip.

I took it off, so i had not 1% of magic find and within the next hour got a corrupted lodestone and an exotic soloing a random world champ (non-event).

MF is bugged, i’d remove all of it if I were you.

Agreed. MF ruins your drops. Ironic.

From the behavior people notice on it, I believe I know what the issue is, but can only make an educated guess.

People who wear or use consumables for sane amounts (under 100%) get worse drops.

People who wear or use consumables for insane amounts (over 150%) notice better.

I contend that instead of augmenting your existing 100%, to say, 130%, a 30% MF consumable or gear set is actually REPLACING your existing 100%, so you go from 100% to 30%.

It makes sense from the pattern.

people who stack MF to over 100% see returns, people who don’t see a lot less than normal.

This bug is far less amusing than the one that caused my staff mesmer to fall through the world on phase retreat and die of fall damage.. that was amusing.

well, here’s the comparison between my mf and pvp gear. you’ll notice my mf isn’t complete yet, and I do leave a tad of mf on my pvp. sometimes it’s too much sacrifice for that last 5%, and too easy to throw in 10% because the rest of it is nice. This is not including omnomnberry bar or any banner boosts, but does include maxed sigil of luck on mf gear.

_ ___________mf___________pvp________pvp-mf_________(pvp/mf-1)*100%
Power_______1909_________2097________188____________9.85
Weapon_dmg_1,080________1,080________0______________0
Cond_dmg____75__________135_________60_____________80
Precision_____1,742________1,822_________80____________4.59
Toughness____1,133________1,404________271____________23.9
Vitality_______1,127_______1,119_________-8_____________-0.7
Attack_______2,989________3,177________188____________6.29
Critical_%_____43_________47___________4______________9.3
Critical_dmg___33_________78___________45_____________24.59
Average_Attack_4,055______5,088_________1,033___________25.47
Armor________2,197______2,468_________271____________12.3
Defense_______1,064______1,064__________0_____________0
Health________17,192_____17,112_________-80___________-0.47
Healing________25________85___________60____________240
mf___________132________17___________-115__________-49.57
_____________luck sigil____fire sigil
_____________mf runes____divinity rune
for the Average attack I used this formula: (1-Crit%/100) * Attack + (Crit%/100) * Attack * (1.5 + Crit dmg)

Conclusions I see: mf gear provides 98.2% more “items” (better, maybe? iuno, the mechanics are besides the point), while requiring 25.47% more attacks to kill something, and can take only 80.69% as many hits.
As you can tell, my mf is pure glass cannon, while my pvp focuses on adding toughness and more dmg.
From these numbers, I would expect mf to find 232 “items” from killing 100 grubs in the same time as my pvp would find 147 “items” from killing 126 grubs.
sigil of fire would also make an impact, but it depends on mob density, and I have no idea how much damage it deals. I doubt it makes up that difference, though.

So, as far as taking a hit on how well I kill things and a leach on a group: mf absolutely impacts your usefulness. Is it worth it? yes.
Final advice: pvp gear when others depend on you, mf gear in your own time. mix it up if you can’t afford both.

edit: gahhh tabs don’t work
edit: gahhh spaces don’t work either!
edit: underscore kinda big… resizing

plasmacutter.2709:

I wore about 45% MF, and my drops went to zip.

I took it off, so i had not 1% of magic find and within the next hour got a corrupted lodestone and an exotic soloing a random world champ (non-event).

MF is bugged, i’d remove all of it if I were you.

Look up the concept of probabilities.

Let’s say that I’ve been having a horrible month and can’t catch a break on anything. The chance of it getting better is slim. I’ve had the same routine and everyday is essentially the same. One day I change things up and wear some Hello Kitty socks. That days turns out to be a great day. Is it because of the socks?

The thing with probability is that just because you changed one variable and got rewarded, doesn’t mean that it was a result of the change. This was why I stressed doing a quantitative analysis over observation.

Chances to get a exotic item are 0.3% it means roughly in 1000 items that drop there will be 3 exotics, also please keep in mind that not all areas and all mobs have chance to drop exotics at all. Now, if you have 100% magic gear those chances increase to 0.6% now, tell me do you think MF is useful?

MF used to work correctly prior to 11/15 patch (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Change-in-loot-parameters-or-a-bug-Merged/).
I know that because I used to farm Plinx without MF, then made a set with MF runes and opal jewels and my drops literally skyrocketed. I used to get up to 4 rares per run, averaging on 2 i think. Full bags of loot, too.
Since patch, MF still nets me more greens than non-MF, but rares became nonexistent no matter what type of armor I use. Other drops average on maybe couple of bags if I am lucky. My top MF was 125%.

ScryPex.6830:

Yesterday i completed an explorer set in order to get as much mf as i can afford.
so now i got 78 % mf and i tried do some dungeons to get rare stuff, but i got nothin.
did i do something wrong? i mean is there a better way to get those stuff or i just dont have luck ?!

How? No clue. ArenaNet is VERY tight lipped on this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Change-in-loot-parameters-or-a-bug-Merged