Guild Wars 2

WARNING: There is math involved!!!!!

Some of you are probably wonder why I think camping bosses is a problem. Well, you have ~80% of every server’s population using 10% of the game at any one time. This is a waste of server space and money whether you care to realize or not.

Even then it turns this game into a grind and grinding gets very boring very fast. Almost every, if not every, MMORPG that has any form of grind turns into a stagnant collection of space waste. In that kind of world your toon isn’t worth paying any attention to because everyone else has their end-game weapons/armor and their maxed everythings.

Sounds like a massive waste of time, money and effort. People still play them despite this because it leaves a giant hole where a sense of achievement and fulfillment should be sitting. Actually, I should correct myself because that sounds more like self-torture, trying to gain something intangible even though you know there was never anything to be had.

Fixing this is somewhat simple, though. Make highly populated activities scale in difficulty against number participating and frequency of participation per individual (account-wide). For example:

• 50 people (x) are fighting Shadow Behemoth. Lets pretend that SB has base hp of 10k at a minimum participation of 5 people requiring 2k shared damage per person and it scales 2k share and x1.05 extra hp per person outside the 5 person limit: y = (2,000x)1.05^(x-5) – 10,000. Final hp for SB would be 1146740, where each player must deal their share of ~23k damage before they can claim a reward.

• 10 of those 50 people have camped SB and are on their 2nd to 5th run. Instead of adding on to the massive hp share they instead each get an invisible debuff. This debuff increases likelyhood that they will be targeted and the amount of damage they take from SB by 20%, both scaled x1.5 against # of consecutive kills: y% = (20)1.5^(x-1). Those on their 5th run will be the full focus (101% chance of targeted) of SB’s attacks and will take double damage (+101% taken). This stays until they spend some hours on other things (example: crafting, events, pvp ,etc.)

With this we can make the persistent get better rewards but at some point it won’t be worth it. Lets assume one of those people who camped SB are on their 5th run and are still there. So long as they have HP, SB will attack them. Any attempt to revive them will result in added deaths. On top of that, someone will have to pick up the slack.

In the example above, if those 10 were all on their 5th run then more than likely they would all be dead and the remaining 40 would have to deal an extra 230k damage to kill him. Not only that, the time it takes for them to remove the buff will also be scaled to what “charge” their debuff is on. Is camping SB further worth it at this point? No.

But directly attacking camping won’t completely solve the problem. The reason people camp is cause of money. Moneymaking in this game is a pain in the butt and can get tedious. Sometimes encouragement and discouragement working together makes miracles, and so we encourage people to do more events elsewhere.

Lets take our bossing debuff, for example. Yes, SB hates me too much because I tried killing him 5 times in a row, BUT if I go do other things like protect Nebo Terrace from the Tamini that they might drop more things I can sell like materials and containers. Oh but I can’t just do that I also need to go to the straits and fend off Risen.

My point being is that you can’t camp SB 5 times and then go to Hairathi Hinterlands and camp Ulgoth until the SB debuff goes away. Doing this will place another debuff on you for Ulgoth and you will still have to do many more events just to get rid of the one for SB. That leave you doing a total few hours of doing other events. What’s worse is that this buff is also invisible, meaning you have no clue when it will end. All you can assume is that you must do a great variety of events before you can camp SB again.

But your drops are more valuable everywhere else! Not only that, the whole game is being used! Problem solved! (most) People are happy! Everyone can inB4thievesareopthread again!

This idea is just an example though and I would like to discuss better methods or improvements to the one I have given.

Wow…that’s complicated.

Just add meta event chains to the world event bosses that cover the entire zone. Positives: Spreads population out, gets the population involved in the zone, a better play experience for everyone including people not interested in the bosses, brings the community back together the way it should be, increases drops zone wide.
Negatives: If there isn’t a significant portion of players doing the meta events, boss never spawns.

More HP = more challenge is a cancerous idea upon the MMORPG genre and it needs to be excised.

killcannon.2576:

Wow…that’s complicated.

Just add meta event chains to the world event bosses that cover the entire zone. Positives: Spreads population out, gets the population involved in the zone, a better play experience for everyone including people not interested in the bosses, brings the community back together the way it should be, increases drops zone wide.
Negatives: If there isn’t a significant portion of players doing the meta events, boss never spawns.

I’m with this. It’s pretty much what you have to do to get the map boss in Harathi up. Nice long chain of constant activity with a reward at the end. More map eventing for bosses would be great.

Of course some people will just jump in at the end anyway. Better rewards for those flagged as having done more of the pre-events?

zenleto.6179:

killcannon.2576:

Wow…that’s complicated.

Just add meta event chains to the world event bosses that cover the entire zone. Positives: Spreads population out, gets the population involved in the zone, a better play experience for everyone including people not interested in the bosses, brings the community back together the way it should be, increases drops zone wide.
Negatives: If there isn’t a significant portion of players doing the meta events, boss never spawns.

I’m with this. It’s pretty much what you have to do to get the map boss in Harathi up. Nice long chain of constant activity with a reward at the end. More map eventing for bosses would be great.

Of course some people will just jump in at the end anyway. Better rewards for those flagged as having done more of the pre-events?

Should probably only add the guaranteed rare (or two) for meta event completion, or a grab bag of crafting mats, something worthwhile. Would be worth it to see the maps busy again.
Edit: Or Achievement Points, since they are going to be a big deal, or at least I think they will be in the months to come.

zenleto.6179:

Of course some people will just jump in at the end anyway. Better rewards for those flagged as having done more of the pre-events?

They should first fix scaling for lower level events, so that everything doesn’t drop dead just from looking at them so that everyone would actually have a fair chance at getting contribution in these events. As it is right now, it’s just a mindless horde of people running after 2-3 mobs that die when you’ve hit them twice. It’s more of a race of who manages to get to the mob the fastest, rather ridiculous tbh.

Coquette.2753:

zenleto.6179:

Of course some people will just jump in at the end anyway. Better rewards for those flagged as having done more of the pre-events?

They should first fix scaling for lower level events, so that everything doesn’t drop dead just from looking at them so that everyone would actually have a fair chance at getting contribution in these events. As it is right now, it’s just a mindless horde efulof people running after 2-3 mobs that die when you’ve hit them twice. It’s more of a race of who manages to get to the mob the fastest, rather ridiculous tbh.

You referencing Maw? The grawl trying to steal Tor the Tall’s supplies seem to be buffed a bit. They can take a few hits considering how many people are shooting/cutting/bludgeoning/burning them. The next part is woeful though. And as for the moas – wouldn’t mind seeing the Spirit of Moa having a random chance of appearing for a few minutes once over 50% of the birds have been slaughtered. That would make things interesting : )

Getting marked for completing meta events is a good idea, but it won’t really encourage people to stop camping bosses.

Another idea which I saw somewhere on the forums was making meta events exist in other zones. That would be a good way to get people out there but its still somewhat of an unpopular idea. Who’d really want to go to Kessix, Hairathi and somewhere in Ascalon just so they can come back to where ever and kill the boss?

Zacchary.6183:

Getting marked for completing meta events is a good idea, but it won’t really encourage people to stop camping bosses.

Another idea which I saw somewhere on the forums was making meta events exist in other zones. That would be a good way to get people out there but its still somewhat of an unpopular idea. Who’d really want to go to Kessix, Hairathi and somewhere in Ascalon just so they can come back to where ever and kill the boss?

Dunno, I don’t see people camping non timer events with an extended meta chain attached to them now, so that’s what I’m going with. With an equal amount of reward at the end.

killcannon.2576:

Zacchary.6183:

Getting marked for completing meta events is a good idea, but it won’t really encourage people to stop camping bosses.

Another idea which I saw somewhere on the forums was making meta events exist in other zones. That would be a good way to get people out there but its still somewhat of an unpopular idea. Who’d really want to go to Kessix, Hairathi and somewhere in Ascalon just so they can come back to where ever and kill the boss?

Dunno, I don’t see people camping non timer events with an extended meta chain attached to them now, so that’s what I’m going with. With an equal amount of reward at the end.

Exactly. So make it not worth camping bosses that run on a timer. I am just saying that if my idea goes into effect that people would feel like going around and doing things is not so much of a waste of time.

Since the chest-once-per-account-per-boss patch, I am not sure if people are actually camping bosses. People seem to be hitting them once in rotation.

Even so if is still a ridiculous fight because it lasts a min max.
The very simple reason for this is guaranteed loot for min effort- I am sure no-one particularly likes playing like this.

I like the idea of complicated chains to result in bosses with a reward at the end ( Harathi) and it is clever to track event participation.

I would like to see many more such chains across the game, however I can see some people saying that time investment to do the events don’t match up to the reward at the end so they kill timed bosses instead.

This is sad and I think will not be remedied until loot drop across the board are revisited.
Not necessarily increased but standardised (?) so that you know if you kill a vet you get x or kill a champ you get y.

I am not expressing myself well today :P but I hope you get what I’m saying.

This seems to be the inevitable conclusion when you design your Dynamic Event system around “Everyone who shows up wins a gold medal.”

Those mechanics work well for a certain, infamous kind of Olympics. Not so much an online RPG that encourages you to tweak your character and gear, and strategize intelligently around a wide variety of encounters.

Perhaps its time to rethink what “participation” truly entails.

To address an issue, find the cause. Why are people camping Metas, using timers, guesting, doing precious little else in some cases?

Messing with the Events themselves is putting a bandaid on a symptom, not addressing the issue.

The world loot system in this game is, hands down, the worst I have ever seen. Not just rares, but even the junk people could use to sell rares, not to mention crafting mats. That, to me, is the actual issue.

Morrigan.2809:

Since the chest-once-per-account-per-boss patch, I am not sure if people are actually camping bosses. People seem to be hitting them once in rotation.

Even so if is still a ridiculous fight because it lasts a min max.
The very simple reason for this is guaranteed loot for min effort- I am sure no-one particularly likes playing like this.

I like the idea of complicated chains to result in bosses with a reward at the end ( Harathi) and it is clever to track event participation.

I would like to see many more such chains across the game, however I can see some people saying that time investment to do the events don’t match up to the reward at the end so they kill timed bosses instead.

This is sad and I think will not be remedied until loot drop across the board are revisited.
Not necessarily increased but standardised (?) so that you know if you kill a vet you get x or kill a champ you get y.

I am not expressing myself well today :P but I hope you get what I’m saying.

I agree, rewards need to be spread out across the entire game, instead of concentrated into certain areas. And rewards need to scale with effort involved. And people are still standing around like zombies waiting for them to spawn.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

To address an issue, find the cause. Why are people camping Metas, using timers, guesting, doing precious little else in some cases?

Messing with the Events themselves is putting a bandaid on a symptom, not addressing the issue.

The world loot system in this game is, hands down, the worst I have ever seen. Not just rares, but even the junk people could use to sell rares, not to mention crafting mats. That, to me, is the actual issue.

Even if the rewards were spread out and champs and vets and regular mobs all gave rewards for effort, people would still camp the bosses. Guaranteed rares for 5 to 10 minutes of afk auto attacking per boss (besides Claw, and one or two others) is too good to pass up to do open world pve and spread out population.

RebelYell.7132:

This seems to be the inevitable conclusion when you design your Dynamic Event system around “Everyone who shows up wins a gold medal.”

Those mechanics work well for a certain, infamous kind of Olympics. Not so much an online RPG that encourages you to tweak your character and gear, and strategize intelligently around a wide variety of encounters.

Perhaps its time to rethink what “participation” truly entails.

It’s a bit more complicated than that, if you consider scaling. Maw, for instance, is level 12 content. As it is today, a level 12, with level 12 skills, stands a good chance of bronze at best, even trying to participate in the horde of camped 80s. If you put a participation threshold based upon damage, kills, whatever.. these players will be gated even more.

Contrast to Svanir’s dome, where appropriate level players actually have to work a bit to take down a much harder, mobile boss, for.. a pat on the head and a pittance event reward. Few high level players bother, no chest. Lots of participation for nothing.

Effort has little to do with rewards in GW2.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

RebelYell.7132:

This seems to be the inevitable conclusion when you design your Dynamic Event system around “Everyone who shows up wins a gold medal.”

Those mechanics work well for a certain, infamous kind of Olympics. Not so much an online RPG that encourages you to tweak your character and gear, and strategize intelligently around a wide variety of encounters.

Perhaps its time to rethink what “participation” truly entails.

It’s a bit more complicated than that, if you consider scaling. Maw, for instance, is level 12 content. As it is today, a level 12, with level 12 skills, stands a good chance of bronze at best, even trying to participate in the horde of camped 80s. If you put a participation threshold based upon damage, kills, whatever.. these players will be gated even more.

Contrast to Svanir’s dome, where appropriate level players actually have to work a bit to take down a much harder, mobile boss, for.. a pat on the head and a pittance event reward. Few high level players bother, no chest. Lots of participation for nothing.

Effort has little to do with rewards in GW2.

Couldn’t agree more.

Svanir Dome is a lot more fun, I agree. If there was more stuff like it in the world, and fewer renown hearts and Orr escort quest clusterkitten, world PvE would be a lot more interesting in my opinion.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

RebelYell.7132:

This seems to be the inevitable conclusion when you design your Dynamic Event system around “Everyone who shows up wins a gold medal.”

Those mechanics work well for a certain, infamous kind of Olympics. Not so much an online RPG that encourages you to tweak your character and gear, and strategize intelligently around a wide variety of encounters.

Perhaps its time to rethink what “participation” truly entails.

It’s a bit more complicated than that, if you consider scaling. Maw, for instance, is level 12 content. As it is today, a level 12, with level 12 skills, stands a good chance of bronze at best, even trying to participate in the horde of camped 80s. If you put a participation threshold based upon damage, kills, whatever.. these players will be gated even more.

Contrast to Svanir’s dome, where appropriate level players actually have to work a bit to take down a much harder, mobile boss, for.. a pat on the head and a pittance event reward. Few high level players bother, no chest. Lots of participation for nothing.

Effort has little to do with rewards in GW2.

Yep absolutely.

zenleto.6179:

You referencing Maw? The grawl trying to steal Tor the Tall’s supplies seem to be buffed a bit. They can take a few hits considering how many people are shooting/cutting/bludgeoning/burning them. The next part is woeful though. And as for the moas – wouldn’t mind seeing the Spirit of Moa having a random chance of appearing for a few minutes once over 50% of the birds have been slaughtered. That would make things interesting : )

I did mean Maw when talking about a horde of mindless people running after the same mob trying to tag it :P but as far as poor scaling goes, all low level events included (not that the higher level ones are much better, difference being they might actually live longer than 5 seconds, though no actual skill is required to kill them).

I’m all for rewards scaling depending on your contribution involved as long as they fix their overall scaling system first.

Roll back all the loot nerfs since the beginning of the game would stop boss camping.

Coquette.2753:

I’m all for rewards scaling depending on your contribution involved as long as they fix their overall scaling system first.

I wonder if rewards scaling would be effective enough? Has AN tried it yet?