Guild Wars 2

I don’t know about legendaries, but everything else you said is true.
However legendaries shouldn’t be able to be dropped so easily. If at all.

If we didn’t need to farm there wouldn’t be much left to do. Perhaps you shouldn’t have 7 chars if you don’t have the time needed to outfit them all. This game requires crazy amounts of farming to gear up, so either farm or play less characters.

U don’t need farm at all. The exotic gear is easy to get. Everything else in game is luxury. U can join every content without farming. U want something extra and yes it’s normal that u need do something for it.

I agree with basically not wanting to grind, but I think the issue is more nuanced than that. We can definitely talk about that aspect of the issue, but in the mean time:

Here is the original manifesto. When Colin Johnson talks about grind he is actually referring to combat, not to loot. “We want to change the way people view combat”. My interpretation is that he talks about swinging a sword mindlessly (the repeat animation) vs a better animated combat system (ex. fiery rush, hundred blades, etc) and more interesting events.

Loot is a whole different story. I think there were some well argued threads in here… somewhere…. if only the search function worked…. T_T

ipan.4356:

To me, this means I should be able to access content in the game without needing to do any excessive farming

Except you do have access to all the content (except high level fractals). Name one bit of content that requires you to have top gear besides fractals. Not dungeons, people have soloed them naked before, not world bosses, people bring under levelled characters to them. The word you are looking for isn’t “content” it is “rewards”.

I tend to agree with most of it…but legendaries shouldn’t drop and they most certainly shouldn’t be able to be sold on the TP. That part still boggles my mind.

“Bosses – whether they be world, or dungeon – should have chances to drop exotic, and even legendary, items. The chance should be high enough that we shouldn’t have to repeat content more than two or three times to get it.”

So, 3 times max on a world boss to get a Legendary item. There are 24 big events with chests (including temples) http://us.gw2stuff.com/en/events/us. if a legendary drops every 3 events, for everyone in those huge mobs of people doing them or heck, even just an exotic, what would this do to the prices?

I really don’t think OP has thought through the implications of what he has just said. Exotics, ectos from exotics, runes and sigils, would flood into the market from everyone selling those drops. Prices would drop like a stone. Good for those buying. Not so hot for those selling.

How long would people play the game if exotics were worthless vendor trash and a few days of doing world bosses got you all the Legendaries you could possibly want?

Well, while I agree with most of the people in this thread that anything above green isn’t necessarily needed, I will agree with the OP that this game is nothing but grinding. If you want any sort of gear, cosmetic, achievement, etc it involves a stupid amount of grinding. There is a reason why GW2 is commonly referred to grindwars 2. Theres more grinding in this game than in most.

Theres not necessarily a gear treadmill, although to be in tip top shape in something like WvW you will want ascended, there definitely is grinding in the game. Lots of it.

I really get annoyed with these people that feel like they are entitled to everything possible in the game, just because they have the game. The point is there is no NEED for gear grind. you can do events and things with basic gear, is it recommended? No, but it is your CHOICE to grind for those things. But if you want the best stuff, you should have to work for it. Not just have it handed to you because you asked.

Get used to the grinding, they rarely add content, so the content we have has been here for awhile. In other words you have no choice but to grind the same content because there is nothing else to do. Except wait for these feature patches that should be introduced in weekly maintenance patches bc they arnt anything special.

And this is an MMO, everyone is grindy in its own way

your chief complaint is outfitting your seventh character with exotics?

…

yeah…

Get out your wallet and buy some gems convert it into gold on the lottery day it will provide more than 50% increase. That’s pretty much what this economic design demands especially from new players.

Thanks for being one of the few people who actually noticed unlike the people that were in the Oath commercial that basically pledged against everything GW2 has become. Oh and don’t listen to the naysayers, they were probably folks that managed to get not just one but multiple precursors during the island event or are whales with big wallets.

ipan.4356:

Bosses – whether they be world, or dungeon – should have chances to drop exotic, and even legendary, items.

lol, so what happens when you end up getting all exotics/legendaries.

more to the point… 7th toon you say?

it should be easy to do? exotics are easy to get, and ascended is just a bit time gated, weapons i mean of course. If its ascended armor then yea that might take awhile, but its not needed unless you want to run lvl 40+ fotm’s?

Legendary is the only thing that is really grindy, but thats if you have 1 level 80, you have 7! what have you done with all your mats?

If you wanted to get everything in game without working for it (not even gonna call it grinding because you don’t have to), then what’s the point of playing the game?

ipan.4356:

The Manifesto promised ‘no grind’.
…….
GW2 was promised to NOT be a treadmill of any kind – but it IS.

Sorry, you are mistaken. The Manifesto implied the grind would be minimal and optional. It is. No MMO can exist without some type of long term goals that require what many players would call “grind”. Rest assured that the “grind” in this game is a pittance of what is REQUIRED to even progress in other MMOs.

cesmode.4257:

Well, while I agree with most of the people in this thread that anything above green isn’t necessarily needed, I will agree with the OP that this game is nothing but grinding. If you want any sort of gear, cosmetic, achievement, etc it involves a stupid amount of grinding. There is a reason why GW2 is commonly referred to grindwars 2. Theres more grinding in this game than in most.

Theres not necessarily a gear treadmill, although to be in tip top shape in something like WvW you will want ascended, there definitely is grinding in the game. Lots of it.

you realize loot table is also based on the damage you been doing.

loseridoit.2756:

cesmode.4257:

Well, while I agree with most of the people in this thread that anything above green isn’t necessarily needed, I will agree with the OP that this game is nothing but grinding. If you want any sort of gear, cosmetic, achievement, etc it involves a stupid amount of grinding. There is a reason why GW2 is commonly referred to grindwars 2. Theres more grinding in this game than in most.

Theres not necessarily a gear treadmill, although to be in tip top shape in something like WvW you will want ascended, there definitely is grinding in the game. Lots of it.

you realize loot table is also based on the damage you been doing.

Partially true.

The quality of loot in the table is not dependent on damage

The chance at getting loot is dependent on damage. The fewer the people, the higher the chance. The more people, the lower, as you are competing with others to reach damage thresholds.

Epic loot was supposed to be indicative of completing epic challenges – hence, once you defeated a really difficult boss, you got an incredibly powerful weapon for doing so.

It’s an indication that you have done something very difficult.

Not an indication of how much time you spent repeating easy content.

Legendaries currently cost, what, like about 3K gold or so (varying depending on weapon)?

Anyone can farm mats, or dungeons, or anything else until they have 3K gold and then buy a legendary.

You can get anything in this game through farming (or buying gems).

But can you get anything by achieving something difficult (such as defeating a really hard boss?).

Nope.

This game is all about farming – it’s not about difficulty or challenge. It’s a treadmill/slot machine.

Sans ascended gear, there’s nothing you need to grind. But should you want any particular reward, you’re gonna hit some grind.

It’s also the main thing driving their F2P business model: There’d be little incentive to buy gems if the rewards were fairly painless to get.

It’s still a step in the right direction, but still grind.

A high amount of achievement points, certain titles (such as “The Blazing Light”), FotM personal reward level… are some thing you can’t buy or “grind” to get.

Also, I don’t understand what your point is. Are you complaining because you don’t want to “grind” to get exotics, legendaries, and other stuff? Or are you complaining about the nature of GW2 (and likely most MMO’s) nature?

While I can agree to the OP, I also have somehow to disagree …
GW2 is in a dire need to reduce at certain spots its massive grind.
On the other hand, it may not become way too easy to get certain things, otherwise they turn way to quickly into worthless junk.

Following things should ANet do finally to reduce the grind in an acceptable way:

• Eternal Battleground and the Borderlands get updated to give same as good WEXP Rewards as like the Edge of the Mist. Chances to receive WEXP Items as drops from killed players will get slightly increased. Junk Drops from Payer Kills will get removed. You get either nothing, or something useful. but not worhtless grey junk like Thorns …from a player kill
• GW2 will have now again Weekend Special Events like in GW1, where certain Effects will get buffed over the Weekend, like have an increased MF over these days, or having increased Karma gain, or having increased WEXP gain and so on over the time of the chosen Weekend. Among these special weekend effects cxould also be increased drop rates for exotics, or for T6 material ect.
• The cost of Karma for Exotic Items from the Temple Events will get reduced by 10%
• Guaranteed Rare Item Rewards for beating World Bosses (Tequatl, Karka, Wurms, Shatterer, Jormags Claw, Mega Destroyer) will be now once a week guaranteed Exotic Rewards if your Character is of Lvl 80 that participated in the Event.
• Mist Essences now drop also of their various types in WvW rank reward Chests and Champ Reward Chests as also you can trade them in now for Badges of Honor.
  250 Badges for a Vial, 500 for a Glob and 1000 for a Shard
• Add finally Precursor Crafting and Precursor Scavenger Hunts
• Pact Weapons will get changed into Semi-Precursors, which can be turned into full Precursors after doing their corresonding heroic Scavenger Hunts
• World Bosses will drop now daily once World Boss Trophies, which can be used as Reward Tokens to trade in for various kinds of thigns, like Sunless Weapons, Minipets and so on … in regard for Tequatl for example his Trophy would be “Eye of the Sunless”, a special jewel made out of the bones from tequatl
• T6 Materials will now be rewards in Jumping Puzzle Rewards Chests weekly instead of T7 Materials. Each Chest will drop a specific T6 Material only.
  Means, every 7 days you will get from a JP Chest guaranteed T6 Materials of a specific sort instead of T7
• Monthly hidden Treasure Chests will appear from now on everywhere in Tyria full of random amounts of Gold, T6 Materials, Obsidian Shards and other useful goodies like Boosters that instantly raise your Magic Find by 1-5% (for those that remember on those monthly hidden chests of GW1.
  The money inside them will range from 1-10 Gold, the T6 materials will range from 10-25 of 3 random Materials , Obsidian Shards will range from 10-25 too
• Chances of getting Fractal Weapons get now increased by the amount of times you run a fractal and this chance resets, once you get a Skin dropped.
  Every successful Fractal Run your chances will increase by 2% to get at the End Chest a random Fractal Weapon Skin. Means theoretically if you have the worst luck ever, at your 50th End Chest you would get a guaranteed Fractal Skin
• Remove the ridiculous Time Gating Mechanism from Crafting
• Make crafted Ascended Items sellable in the Trading Post
• Remove Legendary Weapons from being sellable in the TP
• Add Bags as Laurel Rewards for each Lodestone Type. Those bags have then 5 Lodestones of the chosen type for say 5 Laurels
• Reduce the costs of Lodestones for items that require them. Any item that required before like 250 Lodestones, will require now only 50.
  People that crafted already those items with 250 Lodestones, will get on contact with a new NPC with the crafted Item in Inventory a refund of 200 Lodestones in 5 steps per follow up week, means 40 Lodestones per week refunded, if you dont get those refunds within that time, you missed the chance then. Multi-Step refund is made to ensure, that the economy doesn’t get flooded with Lodestones, so that they don’t devalue so much.

Thats my personal wishlist of changes that i’d like to see.
Im sure, some stuff from it would need to get balanced out maybe, but at least I’M sure, these points would definetely reduce significantly the grind of GW2.

ipan.4356:

To me, this means I should be able to access content in the game without needing to do any excessive farming

What content have you not been able to access without grinding?

Is there a dungeon I am forgetting about, which required 250 orichalcum ingots to open? Did Try Top demand 15k achievement points before it would let you in? Did Taimi give you a discriminating glare and turn you away from the Living Story until you’d outfitted your 8 alts in exotic/ascended equipment?

I don’t see it changing any time soon if any thing it will get worse since i am 100% sure this game is turning into a pay to win game

Take away grind in MMO’s and then what else is there for players to do?

loseridoit.2756:

cesmode.4257:

Well, while I agree with most of the people in this thread that anything above green isn’t necessarily needed, I will agree with the OP that this game is nothing but grinding. If you want any sort of gear, cosmetic, achievement, etc it involves a stupid amount of grinding. There is a reason why GW2 is commonly referred to grindwars 2. Theres more grinding in this game than in most.

Theres not necessarily a gear treadmill, although to be in tip top shape in something like WvW you will want ascended, there definitely is grinding in the game. Lots of it.

you realize loot table is also based on the damage you been doing.

Incorrect. Your damage determines your chance at loot, not quality of loot. If you tag mobs with just enough #1 key presses, thats good enough. No need to do 50% of damage when 15% will do.

Ayrilana.1396:

Take away grind in MMO’s and then what else is there for players to do?

At that point it’s no longer considered an MMO. I wouldn’t even call it a game.

You pretty much log-in and everything is already there for you.

You pretty much paid $60 and a subscription to do nothing!

Ah yes, the “grind”….

All of your characters do not need Exotic gear for any content in this game. You can even complete FoTM 1-9 in green/yellow gear.

Now if you want all of your characters in Exotic gear you are more than welcome to, but it will require some effort. But this is something you are choosing to do, no one is forcing you.

It’s like being upset about how expensive Ferraris are and you can’t believe you have to save up so much money to get one. Sure you can save up and buy a Ferrari, but you can also purchase a used Honda and accomplish the same thing: getting from A to B.

Astral Projections.7320:

How long would people play the game if exotics were worthless vendor trash and a few days of doing world bosses got you all the Legendaries you could possibly want?

Well ideally you want people playing the game because it’s fun, not just for loot, but who am I kidding? People play to gear themselves and then they get bored when there’s no more gear.

We really need to start calling end-game “continue-game” or something. End-game sounds like it’s an endless battle to keep people interested when they hit max level. Which it pretty much is. In every MMO. Bleh.

Ayrilana.1396:

Take away grind in MMO’s and then what else is there for players to do?

Space for implementing other things of Endgame Content, that GW2 needs, content like:

• Naval Battles, in general making more usage of Water Combat/Content
• Housing (which would be a nice new thing that could keep players for a long tiem busy)
• Precursor Scavenger Hunts (which would be a nicer way of obtainign the, than to pray on RNG God to get one dropped ever or out of the mystic toilet
• Space for new Endgame Elite Locations ,stuff like the Underworld is something, what GW2 needs to keep the Players busy
• Theres always the option for ANet to implement some new Fractals, i’d love to see for example a War of Kryta-Fractal or a Winds of Change-Fractal, among some new type of Heroic Fractals, that are made in the style of the Bonus Mission Pack to allow us to replay the 3 Novel Books to replay those histories of Ghosts of Ascalon, the Arise of Destiny’s Edge and the History of Cobiah Marriner and his Adventures around the Sea of Sorrow as also the Creation of Lion’s Arch how we have seen it before its destruction through Scarlet.
  A nice Canthan-Fractal, that lets us play as either Shiro Tagachi or as Nika in a fight against each other would be awesome too, based on a high rendered Factions Trailer
  For those that have never seen this before perhaps:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcFEe2odAuo
  God how I wish GW2’s story would be told much more with this style Pure jaw dropping Eye Candy slur :P

GW2 is far away from making usage of all its massive potential.
Farming is not everythign in this game. Especially if the Endgame in the Game has much more to offer, than just to get best equipment.

Some of what you mentioned is grind according to players.

Scavenger hunt? I have to go to multiple places and do multiple things to get my precursor? Grind.

Housing, new fractals, etc will only keep players occupied for so long. Once you’ve experienced them once, their value tends to diminish over each subsequent time experienced.

Everything Anet does, will diminish over time, thats just normal for every game.
Nothing will entertain you forever, without that you have to do something, or that you will find yourself repeating something, that you have done already alot of times.

Scavenger Hunts are no grind, they can become grind, if they aren’t well designed, but just by themself they are no grind. Its their design that can make them that, if you have to do certain tasks like tons of times, due to some items that you need having like only a 0,01% drop chance, or due to stupid mechanisms slowing you forcefully down, like time gated crafting >.>
That are bad designs, that must not be and which belong changed/removed!

Scavenger Hunts, when well designed can be so much more fun and grindless.
At least you have to admit, this kind of grind, if it gets not well designed implemented is still alot better, than having to rely yourself 100% out of all cases on just 100% pure luck to get a precursor dropped from the MF or as a loot drop.
It would be a definitive quality of life improvement to have finally features like Precursor Crafting and Scavenger Hunts – which are for me features, which should have been in the game from begin on … because with those features in the game from begin on, legendaries would never have become such a massive grind, like they are now due to Precursors being way too much luck based to get currently.

But then on the other hand, grind is defined by every person diffferently.
What you define as grind, must not be grind for me. Its subjective for everyone.

Ayrilana.1396:

Take away grind in MMO’s and then what else is there for players to do?

The weird thing is that so few people question this.

Why is this normal?

Why should games be slot machines?

Why would we pay someone else so that we can repeat repetitive tasks?

Games should be challenging – rewards should reflect the level of challenge.

But repeating mindless tasks simply so you can pass a gate and to repeat a different mindless task is not a game – it’s a chore.

Games shouldn’t be chores – they’re games!

And I would start holding developers to a higher standard.

This idea, that ‘this is just the way it is, and all MMO’s are like this’ is what allows MMO developers to get away with it.

Stop accepting the status quo. Stop accepting normal.

Challenge it and light a fire under their kitten . Get up and make them do something about it.

Demand better.

If you read manifesto carefully…

You’ll notice they say no grind but if people want to spend an insane amount of time acquiring a cool skin, that is their business.

So it is really a trick answer. Since a huge amount of people want cool skin.

ipan.4356:

Ayrilana.1396:

Take away grind in MMO’s and then what else is there for players to do?

The weird thing is that so few people question this.

Why is this normal?

Why should games be slot machines?

Because it’s entertaining and harmless? Because not every game can be chess, a mostly-perfect-balanced game where only experience and strategy are the variables for the people at the table?

Sorry to break it to you, but there are a lot of people who enjoy games with an element of chance and massive repetitiveness. Why else are games like “Monopoly” or “Risk” so popular?

It doesn’t stop at video/board/card games honestly. There is an element of luck and misfortune to sports all the same. People still enjoy watching it.

Challenge it and light a fire under their kitten . Get up and make them do something about it.

Demand better.

Soon as I think a game which lacks these qualities will actually succeed instead of failing massively? I will.

ipan.4356:

The Manifesto promised ‘no grind’.

To me, this means I should be able to access content in the game without needing to do any excessive farming (excessive: repeating any piece of content more than three times, and for any reason other than I find it fun and want to do it).

This game is nearly 95% farming. I’m still working on outfitting my 7 (soon to be characters with a full set of exotic gear plus sigils and runes. I have no legendaries, no ascended.

Bosses – whether they be world, or dungeon – should have chances to drop exotic, and even legendary, items. The chance should be high enough that we shouldn’t have to repeat content more than two or three times to get it. Dungeon token rewards should be higher, or not capped every day.

GW2 was promised to NOT be a treadmill of any kind – but it IS.

I find this thread pretty disingenuous … absolutely no grinding is necessary; all content is accessible in the game without needing to do any excessive farming. With exception of fractals past level 10, all PVE content is balanced around gear that is lower than exotics … this non-exotic gear is something which anyone should be able to outfit themselves with at level 80 just from gold they earned leveling. Aside the obviously intended fractal AR requirements, there is absolutely NO barrier to content due to gear in this game.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for ‘better’, but claiming the game is bad because it’s ‘grindy’ around a false premise is nonsense. Try again.

I cant believe nobody has suggested adding raids yet.

Is this just a “I wish this was WoW and I could google which boss drops my sword” thread?

SolviteSekai.9816:

I cant believe nobody has suggested adding raids yet.

Is this just a “I wish this was WoW and I could google which boss drops my sword” thread?

100% drop or not? If 100% then what’s the point as everyone would have the item(s) within a week. If not 100% then it would fall under as a grind based in people’s definition.

Ayrilana.1396:

SolviteSekai.9816:

I cant believe nobody has suggested adding raids yet.

Is this just a “I wish this was WoW and I could google which boss drops my sword” thread?

100% drop or not? If 100% then what’s the point as everyone would have the item(s) within a week. If not 100% then it would fall under as a grind based in people’s definition.

You just explained why every WoW clone MMO ever has more or less failed commercially.

Farming keeps people playing the game.

Easy drop rates don’t.

Also to anyone who calls this game grindy.

LOL

I suggest some of you go play any of NCsofts other games besides Wildstar.

Aion laughs at what you call grinding.

I think it’s because this is their first MMO.

You should give some thought to whether or not you need to stop having so many alts or pick one alt as your ‘main’ and use it to grind the gold you need for exotics. Most of the content in this game was around when ascended didn’t exist

You also didn’t say what you’ve been farming and for how long

This is like a teenager with an allowance saying they want more money, while they already have enough to get what they NEED, but they don’t want to work to get what they WANT.

mrauls.6519:

You should give some thought to whether or not you need to stop having so many alts or pick one alt as your ‘main’ and use it to grind the gold you need for exotics. Most of the content in this game was around when ascended didn’t exist

You also didn’t say what you’ve been farming and for how long

I think people need to realize that a sword that shoots fire everywhere isnt a necessity.

It is a privilege.

Either for people with cold hard cash, or people with lots of time.

This isnt WoW where the guy with the flaming sword will one shot you. He just looks cooler than you.

And considering he put in 1000 hours farming, he should.

Also anyone who spends the 300 dollars it costs to outright buy a legendary with gems should get that legendary.

Not only because they supported the game, but because they likely have nothing else worth having in their life.

I’m a grinder. So I dont’ mind grinding. In fact I like grinding.

But I am sick of doing the same old grind. After 2 year, I’m still farming AC, COF. After 2 year I’m still doing the same old mining/harvesting farm.

All those really grindy korean mmorpg at least give people new farm area or dungeon every few month. People will move to the new farm area because it give better gold/hour.

After 2 year, I’m still doing the same old grind in GW2 because the same old grind gives the best gold/hour. Even if Anet release new content, people will still do the same old farm.

laokoko.7403:

I’m a grinder. So I dont’ mind grinding. In fact I like grinding.

But I am sick of doing the same old grind. After 2 year, I’m still farming AC, COF. After 2 year I’m still doing the same old mining/harvesting farm.

All those really grindy korean mmorpg at least give people new farm area or dungeon every few month. People will move to the new farm area because it give better gold/hour.

After 2 year, I’m still doing the same old grind in GW2 because the same old grind gives the best gold/hour. Even if Anet release new content, people will still do the same old farm.

They really dont give people new stuff to grind.

Aion is still the same forts after 4+ years and Tera is LITERALLY the same stuff as release I think.

I just don’t understand how anyone could level 7 toons and be adverse to grinding. That’s why I only have 2, and don’t actually play the second one much.

ipan.4356:

The Manifesto promised ‘no grind’.

To me, this means I should be able to access content in the game without needing to do any excessive farming (excessive: repeating any piece of content more than three times, and for any reason other than I find it fun and want to do it).

This game is nearly 95% farming. I’m still working on outfitting my 7 (soon to be characters with a full set of exotic gear plus sigils and runes. I have no legendaries, no ascended.

Bosses – whether they be world, or dungeon – should have chances to drop exotic, and even legendary, items. The chance should be high enough that we shouldn’t have to repeat content more than two or three times to get it. Dungeon token rewards should be higher, or not capped every day.

GW2 was promised to NOT be a treadmill of any kind – but it IS.

I have 6 character 5 of whom are 80s all kitted out either in exos or ascended/exo with full exo, exo/ascended, ascended trinkets. I certainly didn’t need to farm any of that. I crafted most of my armour from materials that I accumulated over the course of just playing the game. Other exos I got from dungeon tokens again without farming them, just doing them here and there

Farming is only “required” if you want the items “now”.

SolviteSekai.9816:

laokoko.7403:

I’m a grinder. So I dont’ mind grinding. In fact I like grinding.

But I am sick of doing the same old grind. After 2 year, I’m still farming AC, COF. After 2 year I’m still doing the same old mining/harvesting farm.

All those really grindy korean mmorpg at least give people new farm area or dungeon every few month. People will move to the new farm area because it give better gold/hour.

After 2 year, I’m still doing the same old grind in GW2 because the same old grind gives the best gold/hour. Even if Anet release new content, people will still do the same old farm.

They really dont give people new stuff to grind.

Aion is still the same forts after 4+ years and Tera is LITERALLY the same stuff as release I think.

ya I don’t like Aion. Aion is the only mmorpg I can’t reach the level cap because the grind is way too boring. I’m more inline talking about games like maple story and atlantica online. Those games are even “much much” more grindy. But the grind is at least some what fun.