Guild Wars 2

SpectacularYak.6518:

DyZ.2854:

Don’t think you have enough time to listen to that long list.

Bull.

Gating content through repetition does not mean you have more content.

WoW and EQ. Those were the only games that had more content than GW2 on release. And it’s debatable in EQ’s case, as the “content” on display was a largely static world with virtually no quests, no events, no PvP, or many (most) of the modern conveniences and features that MMO players have come to anticipate and expect. If EQ was launched in todays market with that feature set, it would be blasted.

Hell, WoW couldn’t really launch today with that feature set. A PvE focused (PvE only, at launch) game with only one raid, a raid with completely bland and static encounter mechanics? I can almost hear the howling from the content locusts now. In fact, I can hear it really clearly, because I heard it then, too. And let’s never mind the loot lag and constant server issues. My god, they’d be pilloried.

Of course, there would be backlash if WoW launched today in 2004 form. We’ve had 8 years of progress in the genre.

Kwami.4356:

There weren’t any battlegrounds in WoW, but there was world PvP. This included raids on the capital cities of the opposing faction. There were also duels. GW2 lacks both of these things, though it does have four WvW maps (kind of) and a handful of battlegrounds. So, GW2 probably wins on PvP. Though, it’s hard to call zerg vs. zerg "PvP’. :P

You’re right that WoW was probably the most meaningfully content rich game on release in MMO history (although it felt small, at the time, in comparison to Everquest). Open world PvP, though? You mean the Tarren Mill/Southshore shuffle? Please. Let’s not insult everyone’s intelligence by claiming WoW had any functionally integrated PvP at launch, because it didn’t.

Handwaving WvWvW, which is probably the best large scale PvP implementation in any game since DAoC, as “zerg vs zerg” makes you seem a little over-eager to slam GW2. Criticism rings a lot truer when it’s fair and objective. When I see people jumping out of their skin to blast every single element of a game…even its strengths…I don’t think “rational objective criticism”. I think “confirmation bias” and “Hate Dumb”.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HateDumb

Kwami.4356:

Of course, there would be backlash if WoW launched today in 2004 form. We’ve had 8 years of progress in the genre.

We’ve had 8 years of stagnation in the genre. There has been very little meaningful progress during that time. Do you want to talk about game launches? Which super successful launches have built on WoW’s success? Age of Conan? Warhammer Online? The Old Republic? Rift? The Secret World?

Show me the 8 years of “progress” in terms of launching games in a feature and content rich state, because I’m not seeing it. MMOs are almost universally launched in a half-finished, content light state. GW2 is actually above average, in this regard, although their inability to get the content they have WORKING is a genuine problem.

SpectacularYak.6518:

Kwami.4356:

There weren’t any battlegrounds in WoW, but there was world PvP. This included raids on the capital cities of the opposing faction. There were also duels. GW2 lacks both of these things, though it does have four WvW maps (kind of) and a handful of battlegrounds. So, GW2 probably wins on PvP. Though, it’s hard to call zerg vs. zerg "PvP’. :P

You’re right that WoW was probably the most meaningfully content rich game on release in MMO history (although it felt small, at the time, in comparison to Everquest). Open world PvP, though? You mean the Tarren Mill/Southshore shuffle? Please. Let’s not insult everyone’s intelligence by claiming WoW had any functionally integrated PvP at launch, because it didn’t.

Handwaving WvWvW, which is probably the best large scale PvP implementation in any game since DAoC, as “zerg vs zerg” makes you seem a little over-eager to slam GW2. Criticism rings a lot truer when it’s fair and objective. When I see people jumping out of their skin to blast every single element of a game…even its strengths…I don’t think “rational objective criticism”. I think “confirmation bias” and “Hate Dumb”.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HateDumb

I dismiss WvW as zerg vs. zerg because that’s what I’ve experienced thus far. I participated long enough to get my 50 kills for the month and then bailed because I disliked the game so much. If I wasn’t part of a zerg, I was picked off by an enemy zerg. You more or less need zergs to take towers and fortresses.

I don’t think that my criticism is unfounded or a result of confirmation bias. I assure you, I have plenty of problems with WoW, too. I post on their forums as Kwami. It shouldn’t be too hard to find something negative. :P

WvW is certainly advertised as a strength of GW2, but I don’t see it that way. I see it as I see many other elements in this game: a good start, but ultimately disappointing.

lacrimstein.5603:

I quite enjoyed gear progression on WoW private servers, and I didn’t pay a dime. They sure got me with that ploy, oh boy!

lacrimstein.5603:

That fluffed-up copy-paste list that’s full of stuff like “Hang out with Quaggans” and “Give Logan a Wedgie” again? No thanks.

So you won’t have any trouble finding your gear progression fix on your WoW private server then right?

Have you seen 100% of the map?
Have you finished 1 of each race?
Have you leveled 1 of each class?

Didn’t think so….

I always read these posts about wanting more “endgame”, but I fail to see people list actual “endgame” ideas, unless the only MMO Endgame people believe in is a gear grind.

exphryl.3857:

I always read these posts about wanting more “endgame”, but I fail to see people list actual “endgame” ideas, unless the only MMO Endgame people believe in is a gear grind.

That’s ArenaNet’s job, not ours.

hehe.
does look like he got flamed.
I have said what I am going to say a few hundred times.

Stop rushing to the end. All MMO are not designed to be played in 30 days. Nor months, but YEARS!!!!

Another of my sayings:

Play an MMO like life. You don’t rush to the end of life. Once you get there all that is left is dying.

You rushed to the end. Your fault live with it. It’s not like you are paying a monthly fee to play this game. Now if you were, I might (very slightly as it may be) not argue your point. In the last 3 MMOs I have played it has taken my on average 7 months to max a level.

lacrimstein.5603:

exphryl.3857:

I always read these posts about wanting more “endgame”, but I fail to see people list actual “endgame” ideas, unless the only MMO Endgame people believe in is a gear grind.

That’s ArenaNet’s job, not ours.

Yet when ANet provided a significant amount of progression in dungeons and crafting, people say they aren’t interested in it.

It would really help to know what people would like to see at level 80 that they view as fun AND that still fits with ANet’s philosophy of low/no gear progression at max level.

Vorch.2985:

lacrimstein.5603:

exphryl.3857:

I always read these posts about wanting more “endgame”, but I fail to see people list actual “endgame” ideas, unless the only MMO Endgame people believe in is a gear grind.

That’s ArenaNet’s job, not ours.

Yet when ANet provided a significant amount of progression in dungeons and crafting, people say they aren’t interested in it.

It would really help to know what people would like to see at level 80 that they view as fun AND that still fits with ANet’s philosophy of low/no gear progression at max level.

You obviously didn’t read the whole thread or my post. I mentioned a ton of options that other MMOs have or put in over time that GW2 could use to make endgame actually exist. Such as Housing, Collections(like EQ2s or Rift’s artifacts) trophies( like EQ2) Titles (like the amount of titles in Lotro), Alternate Advancement models(AoC, rift, EQ2, FFXI etc. all have interesting ways of doing this). Mounts, mini pets(in game! not from the store), collectable card games where you get cards in the game world from all other current game mechanics, more mini games, etc. There are more as we have about 12+ years of MMOs with tons of gaming options other than gear treadmills to pool from.

Now, I know it’s early, and many of these things COULD be put into the game. What we want, is to either see it now OR be told it or something is coming. I’d be very happy with playing what we currently have via alts mostly while waiting on that very content. I’m fine with that. This lack of response as to what is coming is not helping. Give us a road map, even a summary of one or something. Right now all I know that is coming is more of the same. Yawn. I don’t play MMOs for more of the same, I play them because I love to watch them grow and add numerous gameplay mechanic/options over the years. It’s one facet of the genre that no other genre really has.

Also, for a few other posts here, I too find WvW just pointless and utterly unfun. sPVP can be fun, but only in limited quantities. But WvW is all about running around a zone from zerg to zerg hoping to get something done. I just stopped hitting B at all as nothing pulls me to play WvW in it’s current shape. But that’s just my opinion, obviously others like it, I don’t. Yet I want(ed) to. Since it’s the only real way to get that open world feel. It doesn’t give it though.

People that are saying WvWvW is nothing but a zerg fest maybe did not try hard enough… Funny thing is I just got out of a 4 hour session and guess what, i did not Zerg once, and still had a blast. WvWvW does not mean attack vs defence in keeps. Of course to take a keep you will need a strong force but that is just one thing to do. Smaller supply camps dont need a big group to take over but that does not mean that the fights are less intense with 5 vs 5. There is plenty to do for such a group of players (have a couple of small supply interuption teams), commander assassination teams et cetera. Even a solo ganker will have quite a pick if he tries a bit.

So maybe you should make the conscious decision not to follow the zerg and you might be surprised.

DirtyDeeds.6075:

lacrimstein.5603:

I quite enjoyed gear progression on WoW private servers, and I didn’t pay a dime. They sure got me with that ploy, oh boy!

lacrimstein.5603:

That fluffed-up copy-paste list that’s full of stuff like “Hang out with Quaggans” and “Give Logan a Wedgie” again? No thanks.

So you won’t have any trouble finding your gear progression fix on your WoW private server then right?

Have you seen 100% of the map?
Have you finished 1 of each race?
Have you leveled 1 of each class?

Didn’t think so….

The only one i would give to you is completing 100% of the map. Even then, its a bit of a stretch because WvW zones are also included in the world completion. Meaning what?

-If you dont enjoy WvW, then you are kittened.
-If you server sucks in WvW then you are kittened.

As for your other two points…well…you are really stretching it arent you?

Fanboys always like to say that there is a specific class that you will enjoy. That you will not enjoy all of them. Which i wholeheartedly agree with. For example, I hate playing necromancer.

As for playing every race…lol. Your point falls apart once i or another player mentions that he/she hates X race.

elocke.7132’

You obviously didn’t read the whole thread or my post. I mentioned a ton of options that other MMOs have or put in over time that GW2 could use to make endgame actually exist. Such as Housing, Collections(like EQ2s or Rift’s artifacts) trophies( like EQ2) Titles (like the amount of titles in Lotro)

You should know these options that you mentioned will come in the future patches. Just use the search function before rant please.

I love it when fanboys try to make it seem like if you have not done EVERY single thing there technically is to do inside of this game….that you cannot complain about the lack of endgame because….that IS the endgame. What you failed to notice (please take off the rose colored tinted goggles) is that it is because of that, that we are complaining that there is a lack of endgame content. Have you ever considered that X player might not like crafting? or might not care about having 100% world completion? or might be content with having no legendary weapons? well, you get the gist of it.

Also, from most of the posts i have read about people complaining, its not gear grind that we are asking for. Its a stupid system and I hated that when I used to play WoW back in the day. What im personally asking for is….more content. More repeatable content that you can do with groups. Mainly, I’m asking for missions from GW1. Make them all level 80 and make them for groups 2-5 with varying degrees of difficulty. THAT is endgame content.

I would also like to point out that Anet never delivered in their promise for fun activities. The only one we got was Keg Brawl….Im pretty sure it has its fans…but i personally dont like it too much.

Now, the ONLY ever argument i have heard, for Anet not having endgame content is….that you are technically only paying 60 bucks. I have played hundreds of hours so far. If i literally quit right now, this very moment….i would have had more than my moneys worth of entertainment. True, but then….if all the players take that same stance….then the game will go under extremely fast. Anet needs players to stick around and keep buying gems. I dont think their employees work for free and the server back end maintains itself with magic dust. In fact, I would venture to say that the players who are complaining….care most about the game.

elocke.7132:

Vorch.2985:

lacrimstein.5603:

exphryl.3857:

I always read these posts about wanting more “endgame”, but I fail to see people list actual “endgame” ideas, unless the only MMO Endgame people believe in is a gear grind.

That’s ArenaNet’s job, not ours.

Yet when ANet provided a significant amount of progression in dungeons and crafting, people say they aren’t interested in it.

It would really help to know what people would like to see at level 80 that they view as fun AND that still fits with ANet’s philosophy of low/no gear progression at max level.

You obviously didn’t read the whole thread or my post. I mentioned a ton of options that other MMOs have or put in over time that GW2 could use to make endgame actually exist. Such as Housing, Collections(like EQ2s or Rift’s artifacts) trophies( like EQ2) Titles (like the amount of titles in Lotro), Alternate Advancement models(AoC, rift, EQ2, FFXI etc. all have interesting ways of doing this). Mounts, mini pets(in game! not from the store), collectable card games where you get cards in the game world from all other current game mechanics, more mini games, etc. There are more as we have about 12+ years of MMOs with tons of gaming options other than gear treadmills to pool from.

Now, I know it’s early, and many of these things COULD be put into the game. What we want, is to either see it now OR be told it or something is coming. I’d be very happy with playing what we currently have via alts mostly while waiting on that very content. I’m fine with that. This lack of response as to what is coming is not helping. Give us a road map, even a summary of one or something. Right now all I know that is coming is more of the same. Yawn. I don’t play MMOs for more of the same, I play them because I love to watch them grow and add numerous gameplay mechanic/options over the years. It’s one facet of the genre that no other genre really has.

Also, for a few other posts here, I too find WvW just pointless and utterly unfun. sPVP can be fun, but only in limited quantities. But WvW is all about running around a zone from zerg to zerg hoping to get something done. I just stopped hitting B at all as nothing pulls me to play WvW in it’s current shape. But that’s just my opinion, obviously others like it, I don’t. Yet I want(ed) to. Since it’s the only real way to get that open world feel. It doesn’t give it though.

Sorry, I did read you post. I was responding to the person I quoted.

Housing will be added, along with guild halls. (http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/18447-guild-info-discussion-thread/page__st__180#entry887047)

In game minis remains to be seen…we may or may not see some with halloween or other holidays.

I don’t think we will be getting mounts.

I’m sure additional achievements and titles will be added with time. I’m not familiar with LOTRO’s mechanism though.

Also not sure what you mean by alternate advancement models. If you mean further class customization, then there will be more skills in the future. But I don’t think it’s going to have the amount that you want.

Keep in mind, there is a suggestion part of the forums. If you have a good idea or want to support another person’s idea, that’s the place to do it The more people with a consolidated voice, the better. It’s easier for ANet to see those, as well.

Kwami.4356:

Classes: 9 for WoW, 8 for GW2
Races: 8 for WoW, 5 for GW2
Dungeons: 17 (3 at max level, not counting wings separately) for WoW, 8 for GW2 (1 at max level, 3 if you only count explorable mode)
Raids: 2 for WoW, 0 for GW2
Zones: 37 for WoW, 25 for GW2 (not counting cities for either game)
Crafting Professions: 6 for WoW, 8 for GW2

Classes – Yes
Races – Yes (Though stated races as pure content is a rather big stretch)

Dungeons – Here is where GW/WoW (and most gear based games) differ. In WoW once you hit max level + “X” gear it renders a dungeon obsolete even if you have never done it. Lets say your in Vanilla – Your level 60 in a set of purples. Ragefire isn’t even considered a “dungeon” anymore since it can then be soloed and all loots are worthless. So really in the “end” the only thing that matters are the “end” dungeons.

So while yes – WoW might have “17” dungeons, once you over leveled/over geared them they weren’t the same.

In GW all dungeons are usable at 80. For example AC explorable (lowest end dungeon) is something people run at 80, quite often in fact. The dungeons have different paths (3 total, though some of them aren’t run a lot) so that boosts the game for acheezement hunters.

I would put GW winning in the dungeon category simply because they made it so that all dungeons are useful at max level. Content isn’t being tossed away in the trash or changed dramatically in difficulty.

Raids – GW doesn’t have raids, but it never intended to. You might as well toss in sandbox PvE player generated content in there too.

Zones – WoW was bigger, but as the dungeon pointed out until acheezements were added for it I didn’t know many that wanted to 100% all quests in most zones. It was too much work for too little reward. It is commonplace here for people to want to do it (even with bugged SP’s etc). But I give it to WoW since it DOES have more in it.

Crafting – Agreed, though the crafting system is fun the first time you max it, but after you have been 80 for awhile other than cooking it feels rather useless. Sure I can craft exotics, but I can buy them in TP for cheap and not have to deal with farming. I kinda give more leeway on WoW since for all intent and purpose their crafting is more “used” when I played.

**Edit
Also Acheezements and jumping puzzles weren’t mentioned at all. Those are both content since people seem to like to hunt and finish them.

Yup, this is what is preventing gw2 to be the best. I wish gw2 designers would stick with their gameplay and world ideas, but would change their progression ideas so they can make an awesome mmo.

I don’t see how adding in raids where 10 people can group together to get cosmetic-looking items is any drastically different than dungeons with 5 people.

I highly doubt Arenanet is going to go the route of putting in a gear treadmill constantly and ruining the content of the game and making it as shallow as 90% of all the other MMO’s out there.

People need to realize that there is so much more to what an MMO should be than having a gear treadmill constantly.

It’s okay though, there will always be fans of the gear treadmill, and maybe, just maybe, they should realize that this game is what it is and to either adapt or not.

Sadly, people realize complaining about something that hopefully won’t change is the way they want to go than realize that there’s an entire game here other than a great treadmill.

It’s seriously not fun to re roll 5 alts just to end the story the same way I’ve seen 4 story lines and they are pretty cool until that sylvari guy just boots you out the story into a support character.

I don’t find it fun they limit my grinding if that’s the way I want to play. Why should I have to play the game their way when it’s advertised as play my way? If I want to run option #3 in CoF because it’s easier for me and my group why am I punished? If I want to farm mats for my crafting again I’m punished because Orr is the only level 80 zone with 5 mobs around every node/tree/plant.

Almost any MMO you play you have your area some like PvE some like PvP people like to do the following during THEIR game time
Farm mats or grind for mats
Run dungeons constantly at a fast pace for gear/tokens
PvP
explore but you can still avoid mobs but in some areas like Orr and malchors leap there is 7 mobs every few feet you are crippled,chilled,immobilized, pulled backwards you name it. It’s ridiculous they went overboard with the placement.

Barely achievement tracking and barely any titles. There is no point in having a title people can’t see it unless they click on you and to make it better you can’t inspect players gear. preview from the auction house doesn’t work.

I’m all for Gw2 but they are going to far and doing what they said they wasn’t going to do.
Traits are a talent tree they said I believe they wanted players to have free choice but then said to many options overwhelm new players and it prevents people from picking up the best traits in 1 line.

Trinity is gone but armor types/base health screws with balance.

In Gw2 right now the people that complain feel they don’t have a place to go in the game because every time you find something time efficient they take it away or make something harder. make a god kitten raid if you want extremely hard content I won’t complain Ill actually rise to the challenge.

While I still love the game and my wife and I play pretty much daily, I’d absolutely love a broader spectrum of game modes at 80. Anything to enhance or expand upon the already available options would be great.

GW2 does a great job of offering a variety of goals for 80s, just not many that have a method of pursuing them that would be an enjoyable/memorable experience for me personally – which leads to alts in the end. That’s OK, but, I’d really love a dungeon experience that couldn’t be distilled down to speed runs. Yeah, I’ll say it – I kind of miss a bit of camping mixed in as an option.

Give me a big 5 man zone (even a story based copy of existing zones would be fine) filled with tough mobs, basic story elements, rare & random location bosses that potentially drop rare skins unique to them and other fluff, sprinkle in some DEs that reward more and more greatly based on persistance/how many waves/what stage you manage to get it to/how long you spend working at it and I could live there. I guess it’d be something similar to GW1s missions (while I wasn’t a fan of gw1 beyond 30 HoM points, I do think their mission style would work incredibly well in GW2).

I’d love a dungeon experience that isn’t just a zerg based on hurrying up and finishing playing as soon as possible. I’d love to see a challenging alternative dungeon type that offers a different pace of gameplay for small groups (as you can get away with it in a game in which upgrades are cosmetic) that allows for socialization and shared long term goals.

Sure there are plenty of things to work towards at 80, unfortunately the method of acquiring them isn’t usually as enjoyable as the rest of the experiences this game offers.

What I see here is a lot people, OP included, whining because they have become way too dependant on the Skinner’s Box mechanics. Instead of adapting to a game whose concept is to be a virtual world where to develop your character, they try to apply their linear, hand-held “rats in a box” mindset to the game.

Again, if you want stats progression through a linear treadmill, you got WoW, you got Rift, you got LOTR, you got SWTOR (which is like WoW for bads and the mentally handicapped), and, well, you got like a myriad of WoW clones in the market. I’m not gonna elaborate further on how dumb is the mindset WoW generated among a vast portion of the new generation of gamers as the last time I tried I got a couple of warnings – I apologize but, since I perceive the Skinner’s Box mechanics based on gaming addiction have put the genre on stake, this is an issue I feel with passion.

Having said this, I’m all for more things to do, more achievements and more reward systems.

As Anet seems to have offered an alternative to treadmills, grinding for stats and numbers and “rats in a box” mechanics from the WoW clones, going to a more “Ultima Online” or “Dark Age of Camelot” approach, I think they should focus on the motivation factor and true carrot this game has: PRESTIGE (over the chase for stats through a treadmill the other mindless wow clones provide).

The idea is that the best players, those that are the most skilled (and I mean skill not stats accumulation through grinding as the wow clones provide), should stand out.

In this sense, some suggestions and improvements:

- I’m all for more variety of armor and weapon skins as rewards for quests, achievements, dungeons, etc… Same for titles, especially for PvP. Also, for the outstanding players you could be creative in order to distinguish them: make statues or inscription in the main cities for the really good player, for example!

- I’m all for more achievement systems.

- I’m all for reallly challenging and hard content, being more dungeons or even some sort of raids for large groups. But please, don’t clone the mindless raid concept from WoW. You could introduce some really hard dungeons hidden in the world, dungeons that you discover in a natural way. Also, some sort of World Bosses hidden in secret caves or something – maybe, something similar to The Sleeper in EQ? (I loved that one).

- I’m all for more player2player interaction possibilities in the open world. One my biggest complain in modern mmorpgs is that current players are too protected from each other (thank you crybabies, carebears and abusive griefers for spoiling that). I’m not proposing something like UO or SWG, although I’d like to, but I think duelling in the open world and some sort or tournaments in specific places is a must. I think this is being implemented soon. Also, a head-hunting system for bounty-hunter players would be great.

- Housing and all the metagames associated with it. This is one of the best guarantees for long term viability. Introduce furniture and mats for furniture as rewards. Introduce some sort of archeology as mats and elements for furniture and decoration. In fact, introduce different rewards than gold, gear and gear related skins. Variety is the key!

- Make improvements for RP. For example: /say is too loud, I shouldn’t be able to hear what’s going on in the lower floor. More emotes is a must. Drinking effects could be improved too (anyone remember when you were drunk in EQ? That’s was brilliant!).

- Escalation is a great concept as it compells you to explore through all areas without feeling too uber. Makes the world persistent and realistic. In spite of that, I think it could be improved, making it a bit more challenging. Escalation for DEs also needs some tuning imo.

- More guild mechanics and achievements. Guild HQs maybe?

I could add more things but these are the first that come to mind. Anyway, hope Anet enphasizes in the virtual word concept, giving us more freedom of choice, possibilities, challenge and variety of rewards.

Id like to know how so many of you are “done” playing your first 80 already? Not to insult, but do you have lives? It took me about 2 weeks, playing 4 hours or so per day, sometimes 8-10 hours, to get to 80. Since the game is still evolving and players are learning, the average dungeon run takes 40 minutes to an hour. I’ve run enough dungeons to know that unless you go with guildees that know every nook and cranny, it will take quite a bit longer. For a full exotic set from one dungeon, with a weapon or two, will take 40 ish runs? Give or take 10 or so? Then theres map exploration, and crafting. How on earth do you guys have full exotics, full crafting, 100%map completion, and a stable of alts… I wonder if you play the game too much.

Dont whine that theres nothing to do at 80, if all you do is play the game 15 hours a day 7 days a week. Yes, there will be nothing to do. Youre no better off in WoW. Go buy mists, play 15 hours a day, be 90 in 2 or 3 days. Farm the rep and dungeons for another week or 2. And you’re done until your guild can raid. Since you’re so hardcore, you’ll have that on farm in 2 weeks and then what? You’re in the same boat.

I laugh at you all. You expected “endgame” when you bought this game. I bet many of you purchased the collectors… Man, you guys wasted your money. Haha…

Dead.7385:

Zones – WoW was bigger, but as the dungeon pointed out until acheezements were added for it I didn’t know many that wanted to 100% all quests in most zones. It was too much work for too little reward. It is commonplace here for people to want to do it (even with bugged SP’s etc). But I give it to WoW since it DOES have more in it.

Whilst Wow zones may have been bigger, but bigger is not necessarily better. There really wasn’t much going on in Wow Zones. The barrens was huge, but mostly forgettable. I’ve found more going on, and more interesting things in a small corner of one of GW2’s zones, than in an entire wow zone.

I’m lv80 with 48% world completion, have barely done any sPVP or WvW at all, have barely done any dungeons and have barely seen any World Bosses except for Tequatel, the great destroyer and the shadow behemoth.

Yet people cry out we need more content !

Look at this video:
Dynamic Event Chains

after watching this video even my eyes were open even wider as to what level of content is present in Guild Wars 2.

Stop trying to play it like a traditional raiding is endgame content, just because you reached lv80 does NOT mean you’ve seen and done all there is to do in the game.

Even in Guild Wars 1 times you could reach lv20 midway the prophecies campaign, you still had half of prophecies to go plus Nightfalls, Factions and Eye of the north expansions. The only reason it was so obvious was because of the linear style Guild Wars 1 had when compared to Guild Wars 2 non linear, random do what you like approach.

My conclusions about the OP

The OP clearly rushed the content to what he believes is endgame LOL. I think he bought the game without knowing anything about it at all and expecting wowask gameplay LOL

You’ll get what you want, just be patient. All MMOs eventually get expansions and even patches before them that add new content. Even SWTOR added Correlia dailies, which was a huge improvement in my opinion over Ilum. Though node and kill stealing took the fun out until only three people quested there at once.

cesmode.4257:

Id like to know how so many of you are “done” playing your first 80 already? Not to insult, but do you have lives? It took me about 2 weeks, playing 4 hours or so per day, sometimes 8-10 hours, to get to 80. Since the game is still evolving and players are learning, the average dungeon run takes 40 minutes to an hour. I’ve run enough dungeons to know that unless you go with guildees that know every nook and cranny, it will take quite a bit longer. For a full exotic set from one dungeon, with a weapon or two, will take 40 ish runs? Give or take 10 or so? Then theres map exploration, and crafting. How on earth do you guys have full exotics, full crafting, 100%map completion, and a stable of alts… I wonder if you play the game too much.

Dont whine that theres nothing to do at 80, if all you do is play the game 15 hours a day 7 days a week. Yes, there will be nothing to do. Youre no better off in WoW. Go buy mists, play 15 hours a day, be 90 in 2 or 3 days. Farm the rep and dungeons for another week or 2. And you’re done until your guild can raid. Since you’re so hardcore, you’ll have that on farm in 2 weeks and then what? You’re in the same boat.

I laugh at you all. You expected “endgame” when you bought this game. I bet many of you purchased the collectors… Man, you guys wasted your money. Haha…

In many cases is even worst. You’ve got the breed of players that have become so dependant on Skinner’s Box paradigm that they cannot see the forest from the trees. Their first MMORPG was WoW and basically they cannot conceive another way of playing differents from the stats treadmill.

It’s quite easy to spot them as they mainly whine for WoW features. Also they have an obsession with empty concepts like “leveling process”, “endgame (read: stats chase through the mindless repetition of heavy scripted instances where you got to smash the same rotations over and over and over)”. They also mistake “character progression” with “stats increase”.

Their main motivation, besides adiction (the true carrot of linear treadmills, Blizzard knows a lot about this), is to get to get maximum experience in minimum time, to a point where they can one-shoot everything and everyone (no need to say they complain hysterically about escalation and lack of stats increase at max level). They usually play in a non-intended way, using shortcuts and farming high-experience content to accumulate gold and mats so they can “control the economy”, causing super-inflation and grief to the rest of the community (no need to say they complain hysterically and disingeniously about DR).

In my opinion, there’s little to do about this kind of players. After all, what can you do with a guy who, following the aforementioned practices, has missed the game?

Krosslite.1950:

hehe.
does look like he got flamed.
I have said what I am going to say a few hundred times.

Stop rushing to the end. All MMO are not designed to be played in 30 days. Nor months, but YEARS!!!!

Another of my sayings:

Play an MMO like life. You don’t rush to the end of life. Once you get there all that is left is dying.

You rushed to the end. Your fault live with it. It’s not like you are paying a monthly fee to play this game. Now if you were, I might (very slightly as it may be) not argue your point. In the last 3 MMOs I have played it has taken my on average 7 months to max a level.

This is exactly what I plan on doing. I’ll be honest with myself, I’m rushing with my initial character progression wise but that’s only for the benefit of personal story closure, making it somewhat easier for my alts and ‘cause this game is the first I’ve played since launch and I feel accomplished. When it comes to my alts I plan on taking my sweet time, experimenting with traits and combat styles, not farming through dungeons and what have you. I personally believe it’s not the game it’s how you approach it.

“Classes: 9 for WoW, 8 for GW2”

Fair point, not really content though, it’s more of the vehicle with which you experience content.

“Races: 8 for WoW, 5 for GW2”

That’s not even content, period. It’s no more content than different skins for weapons.

’*Dungeons*: 17 (3 at max level, not counting wings separately) for WoW, 8 for GW2 (1 at max level, 3 if you only count explorable mode)"

Every dungeon is doable and enjoyable at max level. Level scaling means that Twilight Arbor can kick your butt if you don’t know what you’re doing. And really, each explorable is like an entirely new dungeons, so I’m going to have to correct your information on this.

Dungeons: 17 for WoW (3 at max level), 32 all at max level (not sure on this, heard someone say it but I’m too lazy to recount each path in my mind).

Zones: 37 for WoW, 25 for GW2 (not counting cities for either game)

GW2 zones are filled with content from a density standpoint, for exceeding in quality that of WoW at launch. WoW may have had more zones, but they were less densely populated with cool/interesting stuff.

It’s kinda like, hey there’s 80 levels, but there’s no endgame and nothing to do at 80.

So its like, why am i leveling at all then?

Kind of has no purpose, and by the time you level 1 class to 80, there is nothing at all fun about doing it again.

No progression makes everything feel completely pointless and makes you lose interest really fast.

Say what you want, after about 3 weeks i got totally bored of this game, yet i can play WoW for 8 years and it still holds my interest.

Kwami.4356:

SpectacularYak.6518:

Kwami.4356:

There weren’t any battlegrounds in WoW, but there was world PvP. This included raids on the capital cities of the opposing faction. There were also duels. GW2 lacks both of these things, though it does have four WvW maps (kind of) and a handful of battlegrounds. So, GW2 probably wins on PvP. Though, it’s hard to call zerg vs. zerg "PvP’. :P

You’re right that WoW was probably the most meaningfully content rich game on release in MMO history (although it felt small, at the time, in comparison to Everquest). Open world PvP, though? You mean the Tarren Mill/Southshore shuffle? Please. Let’s not insult everyone’s intelligence by claiming WoW had any functionally integrated PvP at launch, because it didn’t.

Handwaving WvWvW, which is probably the best large scale PvP implementation in any game since DAoC, as “zerg vs zerg” makes you seem a little over-eager to slam GW2. Criticism rings a lot truer when it’s fair and objective. When I see people jumping out of their skin to blast every single element of a game…even its strengths…I don’t think “rational objective criticism”. I think “confirmation bias” and “Hate Dumb”.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HateDumb

I dismiss WvW as zerg vs. zerg because that’s what I’ve experienced thus far. I participated long enough to get my 50 kills for the month and then bailed because I disliked the game so much. If I wasn’t part of a zerg, I was picked off by an enemy zerg. You more or less need zergs to take towers and fortresses.

I don’t think that my criticism is unfounded or a result of confirmation bias. I assure you, I have plenty of problems with WoW, too. I post on their forums as Kwami. It shouldn’t be too hard to find something negative. :P

WvW is certainly advertised as a strength of GW2, but I don’t see it that way. I see it as I see many other elements in this game: a good start, but ultimately disappointing.

For someone who dislikes gw2 that much and WoW so much you sure do spend a lot of time on the forums expressing your opinions which are almost never constructive, and usually just consist of just that, opinions and hardly any real facts. So ill beg this question, why bother wasting so much time here on the forums? You obviously don’t like the game so are.you trolling? Just attention hungry? I really don’t get it.

It’s a game, games are meant to be fun. So the algorithm here should be more game = more fun. So make some fun out of it.

Games can always use more content. But, saying the game has no endgame just because you don’t like the developer’s idea of endgame, is just ridiculous. Keep MMO hopping. You’ll eventually find the MMO you seek. But it won’t be here.

kal.4350:

Yup, this is what is preventing gw2 to be the best. I wish gw2 designers would stick with their gameplay and world ideas, but would change their progression ideas so they can make an awesome mmo.

Well, would you look @ that.

This guy actually likes the game! You know what? Almost everyone here does in fact, except about half would like to see more added content for game we’re all playing for level 80 characters, and half just think that’s preposterous!

This game is great and I very much would like to keep playing it, but at the moment nothing at maximum level appeals to me. If levels 1 through 80 are very enjoyable, why shouldn’t 80 be?

Content does not have to come in a treadmill, but it does have to be meaningful to keep players coming back.

The idea of getting away from WoW-like content is great and one that I support, but it is not a reason to simply ignore level 80 content.

Soulbound Soldier.6148:

Krosslite.1950:

hehe.
does look like he got flamed.
I have said what I am going to say a few hundred times.

Stop rushing to the end. All MMO are not designed to be played in 30 days. Nor months, but YEARS!!!!

Another of my sayings:

Play an MMO like life. You don’t rush to the end of life. Once you get there all that is left is dying.

You rushed to the end. Your fault live with it. It’s not like you are paying a monthly fee to play this game. Now if you were, I might (very slightly as it may be) not argue your point. In the last 3 MMOs I have played it has taken my on average 7 months to max a level.

This is exactly what I plan on doing. I’ll be honest with myself, I’m rushing with my initial character progression wise but that’s only for the benefit of personal story closure, making it somewhat easier for my alts and ‘cause this game is the first I’ve played since launch and I feel accomplished. When it comes to my alts I plan on taking my sweet time, experimenting with traits and combat styles, not farming through dungeons and what have you. I personally believe it’s not the game it’s how you approach it.

I mostly agree with these comments. Most people simply thinks that there is no endgame because they’ve rushed to the end as they’ve always done with any MMO.

Well, i played WvW at lvl 1. I enjoyed it. REALLY enjoyed it. Oh i shouldn’t have done because i didn’t have skills, slots, traits, gear?
Well, i play this game looking for enjoyment, not “greatness”. I feel great even when i am zerged in WvW, but it doesn’t happen frequently because i play with a lot of friends.. we join in WvW and 10 people, while not being a zerg can resist a lot in a tower, especially with siege engines to boot.

Try that. Enter WvW with your friend, buy siege and play defensive. Oh, but zerging is more effective, you miss karma, gold, end exp, etc.
You’re thinking with someone else’s head. Not your own. Try thinking for yourselves.

The same thing lies in PvE. You’re thinking with someone else’s head. You THINK that leveling to 80 is what HAS to be done, then gearing is what HAS to be done etc.

Try thinking what do you LIKE to do. I like doing all the dungeons with my friends. Even all the story modes i’ve already done. They’re always a blast. Do you have friends to play with? Yes? Try playing with them, this could be YOUR endgame.

rook.4625:

Fabsm.5897:

Jonnyguitar.1684:

It’s kinda like, hey there’s 80 levels, but there’s no endgame and nothing to do at 80.

So its like, why am i leveling at all then?

Kind of has no purpose, and by the time you level 1 class to 80, there is nothing at all fun about doing it again.

No progression makes everything feel completely pointless and makes you lose interest really fast.

Say what you want, after about 3 weeks i got totally bored of this game, yet i can play WoW for 8 years and it still holds my interest.

Then go back playing WoW.

/wave

Terrible attitude, my friend, just terrible. Not saying the guy you quoted is much better, but some are his points are valid. I mean you can see the tide changing on the forums as it’s becoming increasingly clear what more and more people would like to see improved on a game we can all appreciate for its architecture and gameplay.

Hate to break it to you.

I’m gonna ignore the demagogue fallacy of your rethoric, but as I see you only read what you’re interested in (confirmation bias), I’m gonna put it again:

“You’ve got the breed of players that have become so dependant on Skinner’s Box paradigm that they cannot see the forest from the trees. Their first MMORPG was WoW and basically they cannot conceive another way of playing differents from the stats treadmill.

It’s quite easy to spot them as they mainly whine for WoW features. Also they have an obsession with empty concepts like “leveling process”, “endgame (read: stats chase through the mindless repetition of heavy scripted instances where you got to smash the same rotations over and over and over)”. They also mistake “character progression” with “stats increase”.

Their main motivation, besides adiction (the true carrot of linear treadmills, Blizzard knows a lot about this), is to get to get maximum experience in minimum time, to a point where they can one-shoot everything and everyone (no need to say they complain hysterically about escalation and lack of stats increase at max level). They usually play in a non-intended way, using shortcuts and farming high-experience content to accumulate gold and mats so they can “control the economy”, causing super-inflation and grief to the rest of the community (no need to say they complain hysterically and disingeniously about DR).

In my opinion, there’s little to do about this kind of players. After all, what can you do with a guy who, following the aforementioned practices, has missed the game?"

Again, again and again, if you want Skinner’s Box or stats progression, don’t waste your time, go back to WoW. The sooner the better, for all of us.

Did you know that there were MMORPGs before WoW?

@OP, what is it that you want?

I understand you are pvp focused. IMO, the kharma sets in Orr have the most bang for your buck if you want to survive in wvw (all of the toughness and vit). Go Kharma grind for those sets, and then grind out an aesthetic set to transmute. Theres your gear progression.

And I truely hope that you knew the game had no carrot on a stick, gear treadmill at max level. Otherwise, you wasted your money and should go back to WoW. Plain and simple. I am not sure if Anet will give us more levels or better statted gear than what is available, when they release more content and expansions. But until then, and other than that, theres no gear treadmill. Get that max stat set, and then do whatever you want. If that doesn’t appeal, you purchased the wrong game and didnt do your homework.

Sorry for being blunt, but its the truth.

I started off playing GW2 with 3 real life friends. 1 dropped out at about level 40 due to being tired of MMOs and leveling up in general and the other two stopped playing at level 80. We did try dungeons and WvW together.

With that said, I would like to see Anet provide us more “systems” and gaming features to experience at max level..Scenarios (setting up turrets and structures to fend off waves, endless waves…until your team of 2 or 3 dies)… 1-2 player story mode mini dungeons..etc.

DyZ.2854:

Velvet.4678:

I have leveled a Thief to 80 and find that there is nothing to attract me to the game anymore. I mostly play PvP in MMOs but since there is no real gear progression like in WoW I am not drawn to it. I am unable to play PvP simply for “fun” because the fun for me is in the progression. PvE does not offer anything that interests me either.

That said, I do love the combat, graphics style and surprisingly, leveling. Leveling in this game is the funnest thing for me so far, but with nothing to look forward to at the top of the ladder, that too loses purpose.

I would suggest Arenanet to add more endgame material.

I agree 100%. Any other forum goer that says “Well, there’s a TON to do at level 80, you’re doing it wrong” is a blind fanboy.

There’s something to be had when a casual player can pick this game up, play steadily without grinding for 3 weeks or so, and literally have everything explored, and full exotic gear/weapons.

I then came to the realization that this game is a hold-me-over game. I would bet that the majority of the population is similar to me; play the game casually to have fun, with the realization that I won’t be grinding this game day-to-day or yearly like someone would with a standard MMO, like WoW. In WoW, players have been playing for years on end, because that game has a ton of stuff, albeit they’ve added a bunch, and this game is still new. But, there isn’t anything keeping players with this game post 80 as of this point. That’s when it hit me. I’ll continue to play this game until something else peaks my interests, and then i’ll move on, and forget this game until I’m bored with said new game. The only players sticking with this game “long-term” are the Guild Wars players.

I believe it would be piques my interest, sir. But regardless; I like this post. I’m a casual player and the only real thing I’ve grinded since my inception was the undead dragon in Sparkfly and that was only because there’s always a huge crowd for him. Other than that I’m a level 72 elementalist with 40% map completion and I have yet to grow bored. I still plan on making 7 alts for each profession, taking my time with it. And you bring a good point to the thread; people have been playing WoW for 8 years because for 8 years Blizzard has had chance and chance again to be inventive and keep their customers satisfied, Guild wars 2 hasn’t celebrated 2 months yet.

Velvet.4678:

If levels 1 through 80 are very enjoyable…

Because you are chewing through unique content.

Velvet.4678:

…why shouldn’t 80 be?

Because you have exhausted unique content.

Velvet.4678:

The idea of getting away from WoW-like content is great and one that I support, but it is not a reason to simply ignore level 80 content.

Well let’s not use “WoW-like” because that could mean many things, and because Blizzard did not pioneer gated progression or treadmills.

THINGS THAT COULD/SHOULD BE IMPROVED ON FOR LEVEL CAPPED CHARACTERS

- Scaling needs to work better, opening up the world beyond Orr, because Orr is frankly not very well implemented.
- On that note, Orr could use a re-working.
- Some form of housing/guild housing and trophy accrual/display could go in, as a further form of collectible/cosmetic reward.
- More titles/ranks, particularly in PvP.
- More skins for everything, potentially some tied to the titles/ranks.
- More zones…the game could use another zone in the 15-40 range, and another couple of zones in the 70-80 range.
- Dynamic Event reworking/expanding on the concept, particularly in high level zones. Not so self contained. An out of control Rift in Rift could consume a zone, the same should be happening here. DE’s simply do not reach their failure states enough, and the consequences for failure states are too contained.
- More things to spend skill points/gold/karma on (new skills, new recipes, new skins, new minis, town clothes, whatever).
- A refinement of the WvWvW rule set to maximize competitive balance/keep the underdog alive longer, and possibly a re-working of realm wide rewards for WvWvW success to make success a little more visceral.
- A Darkness Falls equivalent

Unfortunately, while I expect to see most if not all of that at one point or another, I don’t expect to see any of it soon, because so much of the content we already have is buggy as hell, and there is still a TON of balancing work to be done.

Tusuri.3178:

rook.4625:

Fabsm.5897:

Jonnyguitar.1684:

It’s kinda like, hey there’s 80 levels, but there’s no endgame and nothing to do at 80.

So its like, why am i leveling at all then?

Kind of has no purpose, and by the time you level 1 class to 80, there is nothing at all fun about doing it again.

No progression makes everything feel completely pointless and makes you lose interest really fast.

Say what you want, after about 3 weeks i got totally bored of this game, yet i can play WoW for 8 years and it still holds my interest.

Then go back playing WoW.

/wave

Terrible attitude, my friend, just terrible. Not saying the guy you quoted is much better, but some are his points are valid. I mean you can see the tide changing on the forums as it’s becoming increasingly clear what more and more people would like to see improved on a game we can all appreciate for its architecture and gameplay.

Hate to break it to you.

I’m gonna ignore the demagogue fallacy of your rethoric, but as I see you only read what you’re interested in (confirmation bias), I’m gonna put it again:

“You’ve got the breed of players that have become so dependant on Skinner’s Box paradigm that they cannot see the forest from the trees. Their first MMORPG was WoW and basically they cannot conceive another way of playing differents from the stats treadmill.

It’s quite easy to spot them as they mainly whine for WoW features. Also they have an obsession with empty concepts like “leveling process”, “endgame (read: stats chase through the mindless repetition of heavy scripted instances where you got to smash the same rotations over and over and over)”. They also mistake “character progression” with “stats increase”.

Their main motivation, besides adiction (the true carrot of linear treadmills, Blizzard knows a lot about this), is to get to get maximum experience in minimum time, to a point where they can one-shoot everything and everyone (no need to say they complain hysterically about escalation and lack of stats increase at max level). They usually play in a non-intended way, using shortcuts and farming high-experience content to accumulate gold and mats so they can “control the economy”, causing super-inflation and grief to the rest of the community (no need to say they complain hysterically and disingeniously about DR).

In my opinion, there’s little to do about this kind of players. After all, what can you do with a guy who, following the aforementioned practices, has missed the game?"

Again, again and again, if you want Skinner’s Box or stats progression, don’t waste your time, go back to WoW. The sooner the better, for all of us.

Did you know that there were MMORPGs before WoW?

Goodness, you give me too much credit. I keep it simple. I have never played WoW. I simply would like to see more content for players that are level 80, what’s wrong with that?

Can we all just agree to disagree?

The game isn’t designed to be like WOW or D2.They were very clear about that before the game was released.There would be no raids or gear progression to God Form.If that was what you were looking for then you should have gotten a different game.

I find that those complaining about “end game” content have offered little on what they think it should be other than well, gear progression and raids. Those are going to be off the table no matter what so why not come up with other useful suggestions.

Personally i enjoy getting map completion and craft mastery.I love the personal story content you don’t get in other games.I also enjoy fighting,and i am sure that more areas and content will open up in expansions.You just need to give it some time.I feel its a bit odd to expect top of the line end game content from a game that is only a month or so old now.

I do not believe they honestly thought people would take the WOW view and level grind to top level in a week.I don’t even want to think of how much time was spent doing that.I play normally 3-5hours week days and 5-7 hours weekends and I’m just getting to about level 75.

To be fair the WvW seems more end game to me if you enjoy raiding and such.I actually really enjoy WvW even though I’m not very good at it yet.

Anet advertised and gave interviews about GW2 during the last few years. One clear element in this was that the game would not be about gear progression.

So you live in a cave, buy a new MMO and are surprised and disappointed to find out that this game isn’t about gear progression? I don’t mind that you like gear progression as all the other MMOs provide….but how could you miss this colossal point that Guild Wars is not about gear progression?

The game has been out for a month or more now I believe. I can’t imagine how I could have not gotten to max level by now. Leveling does not take that long.

Are you implying that I should deliberately slow down my pace of going through the game to make up for lack of content afterwards?

SpectacularYak.6518:

Velvet.4678:

If levels 1 through 80 are very enjoyable…

Because you are chewing through unique content.

Velvet.4678:

…why shouldn’t 80 be?

Because you have exhausted unique content.

Velvet.4678:

The idea of getting away from WoW-like content is great and one that I support, but it is not a reason to simply ignore level 80 content.

Well let’s not use “WoW-like” because that could mean many things, and because Blizzard did not pioneer gated progression or treadmills.

THINGS THAT COULD/SHOULD BE IMPROVED ON FOR LEVEL CAPPED CHARACTERS

- Scaling needs to work better, opening up the world beyond Orr, because Orr is frankly not very well implemented.
- On that note, Orr could use a re-working.
- Some form of housing/guild housing and trophy accrual/display could go in, as a further form of collectible/cosmetic reward.
- More titles/ranks, particularly in PvP.
- More skins for everything, potentially some tied to the titles/ranks.
- More zones…the game could use another zone in the 15-40 range, and another couple of zones in the 70-80 range.
- Dynamic Event reworking/expanding on the concept, particularly in high level zones. Not so self contained. An out of control Rift in Rift could consume a zone, the same should be happening here. DE’s simply do not reach their failure states enough, and the consequences for failure states are too contained.
- More things to spend skill points/gold/karma on (new skills, new recipes, new skins, new minis, town clothes, whatever).
- A refinement of the WvWvW rule set to maximize competitive balance/keep the underdog alive longer, and possibly a re-working of realm wide rewards for WvWvW success to make success a little more visceral.
- A Darkness Falls equivalent

Unfortunately, while I expect to see most if not all of that at one point or another, I don’t expect to see any of it soon, because so much of the content we already have is buggy as hell, and there is still a TON of balancing work to be done.

Actually, this is a good example of constructive criticism and fair suggestions that don’t change the spirit and philosophy of the game.

You got my seal of approval Sir.

There is plenty of gear progression in this game. Just not the kind you are looking for.

/me uses jedi mind trick

These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.

i would like to ask the OP and all people who are complaining, do you have top tier dungeon armor, and leg weapons?

Ventari.8257:

…and leg weapons?

What the hell is a leg weapon?

Is it like a spike you put on your boot?

SpectacularYak.6518:

Ventari.8257:

…and leg weapons?

What the hell is a leg weapon?

Is it like a spike you put on your boot?

It clearly is a weapon that requires your leg to operate