Guild Wars 2

BlueOcean.5380:

Vayne.8563:

The thing is you can still level your alt after you quickly do one thing on your 80 (which is what I do). Because the experience you get from that is trasferable. It’s in the form of a consumable.

However, if you don’t care about achievement points, you still get the rewards like you used to from just logging in. It’s more freedom, not less. Unless you absolutely must have achievement points.

The old daily was replaced by the log in rewards, not by the new daily. The achievement points come anyway, you get them slower or faster. Eventually you’ll hit your cap, one way or another.

Why think about them at all? What makes you think you have to do a daily at all, now?

It’s not about reward, but the adventure. Imagine if every time you went out to anywhere you need your big brother to come out to do what other youngsters around you are allowed to do. But the bartender says, “Hey joo! You get your bro out here to drink this coke. Not for joo, kiddo, cuz u got a big brother. You need your big bro to hand a coke to you.”

Will I want to live if I were that kid? Yep but I won’t visit that bar. lol.

My characters are separate individuals. It’s not a big brother. They don’t really all exist at the same time. We don’t all get to kill Zhaitan. The way you choose to look at it makes the game very odd.

Hey big brother, it’s cool that you killed the big bad guy that rose in Orr, because I’ll be doing that next week!

Games are always a combination of mechanics and immersion. Mechanics in every MMORPG end up, at some point, trumping immersion. In this case, dailies really aren’t part of your characters life at all. You character can’t read your screen. How does he even know what a daily is?

You know what a daily is. If you’re actually roleplaying your character, even inside your own head, dailies break immersion no matter what.

Vayne.8563:

You know what a daily is. If you’re actually roleplaying your character, even inside your own head, dailies break immersion no matter what.

I could make the case it isn’t quite necessarily so. It just requires getting . . . creative.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

You know what a daily is. If you’re actually roleplaying your character, even inside your own head, dailies break immersion no matter what.

I could make the case it isn’t quite necessarily so. It just requires getting . . . creative.

You should use that prodigious creativity to help solve problems, not create new ones. lol

Vayne.8563:

You know what a daily is. If you’re actually roleplaying your character, even inside your own head, dailies break immersion no matter what.

The previous incarnation hardly ever did. You could just “play as you want” and mostly disregard them. More often than not, you’d finish 5.

(Provided that your roleplaying involved you being a hero and going out to do stuff, instead of standing around in Rata Sum, being long-winded.)

Vayne.8563:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

You know what a daily is. If you’re actually roleplaying your character, even inside your own head, dailies break immersion no matter what.

I could make the case it isn’t quite necessarily so. It just requires getting . . . creative.

You should use that prodigious creativity to help solve problems, not create new ones. lol

My friend, every solution creates new problems anyway. That’s just how things work, from an engineer’s perspective. Also, as much as I want to fix things, I don’t have either the authority or the desire to try forcing my solutions into the game.

Besides, being creative writing around systems is what I get for being a fanfic writer and a GM who transcribes game sessions over into text about what happened as seen from the characters of the group.

There’s a ton of opportunity for interesting things to make up . . . it’s just a matter of coming at it from a direction other than head-on (apply directly to the forehead).

Vayne.8563:

My characters are separate individuals. It’s not a big brother. They don’t really all exist at the same time. We don’t all get to kill Zhaitan.

:-) Funny I was thinking of telling you the same thing: My characters are separate individuals. Precisely why they each wants to do their own daily.

My example about big brother getting in the way was trying to illustrate how each person is an individual. They each has the right to do their own daily, drink their own coke, without having another character do it for them.

BlueOcean.5380:

Vayne.8563:

My characters are separate individuals. It’s not a big brother. They don’t really all exist at the same time. We don’t all get to kill Zhaitan.

:-) Funny I was thinking of telling you the same thing: My characters are separate individuals. Precisely why they each wants to do their own daily.

My example about big brother getting in the way was trying to illustrate how each person is an individual. They each has the right to do their own daily, drink their own coke, without having another character do it for them.

I still have the same question. How does your character even know there is a daily. Only you know there’s a daily.

I don’t see how you can have it both ways. Either your character is a single individual in a game world, where dailies don’t actually exist (not in game) or your character is just an extension of you, in which case you can do what you want.

I think it’s a valid question. How do you justify, in game, that character knows what a daily is.

I really am curious.

It doesn’t matter how people perceive their alts. What matters is how they prefer to play them.

People (myself included) have been discouraged from making new alts with the new trait system. They’ve now compounded this by making it (nigh) impossible to finish dailies with a low level alt. I will never make another alt.

Vayne.8563:

I still have the same question. How does your character even know there is a daily. Only you know there’s a daily.

I don’t see how you can have it both ways. Either your character is a single individual in a game world, where dailies don’t actually exist (not in game) or your character is just an extension of you, in which case you can do what you want.

I think it’s a valid question. How do you justify, in game, that character knows what a daily is.

I really am curious.

The justification is the same as when you log in another character to play the daily. How do you know the other character does not have a daily?

As part of my alt’s adventure, he would like to meet other adventurers, be part of the gang that beat the local boss everyone else is trying to kill. Taking him out of the game so I as a player can log in another toon just to get some reward for my account is very ooc to me. :p I’m seeking to stay IC.

Of course, not everyone is a rp’er in this game. My other concern is how to facilitate a community in an mmorpgs. Community building is one of the utmost important goals . When an alt of mine can not be in the same community of newbies running daily events to slay an attacker in town, there is a problem. At it stands he does not even have an event listed for him that new account characters do at his level.

BlueOcean.5380:

Vayne.8563:

I still have the same question. How does your character even know there is a daily. Only you know there’s a daily.

I don’t see how you can have it both ways. Either your character is a single individual in a game world, where dailies don’t actually exist (not in game) or your character is just an extension of you, in which case you can do what you want.

I think it’s a valid question. How do you justify, in game, that character knows what a daily is.

I really am curious.

The justification is the same as when you log in another character to play the daily. How do you know the other character does not have a daily?

As part of my alt’s adventure, he would like to meet other adventurers, be part of the gang that beat the local boss everyone else is trying to kill. Taking him out of the game so I as a player can log in another toon just to get some reward for my account is very ooc to me. :p I’m seeking to stay IC.

Of course, not everyone is a rp’er in this game. My other concern is how to facilitate a community in an mmorpgs. Community building is one of the utmost important goals . When an alt of mine can not be in the same community of newbies running daily events to slay an attacker in town, there is a problem. At it stands he does not even have an event listed for him that new account characters do at his level.

I don’t know. That’s the point. The daily never enters my characters life or mind. Only my mind. When I’m playing one character, my other character is doing whatever it is he’s doing. But he’s not aware the daily. And I don’t really see how he could be, since nothing in game tells him he needs to be doing stuff.

Vayne.8563:

BlueOcean.5380:

Vayne.8563:

My characters are separate individuals. It’s not a big brother. They don’t really all exist at the same time. We don’t all get to kill Zhaitan.

:-) Funny I was thinking of telling you the same thing: My characters are separate individuals. Precisely why they each wants to do their own daily.

My example about big brother getting in the way was trying to illustrate how each person is an individual. They each has the right to do their own daily, drink their own coke, without having another character do it for them.

I still have the same question. How does your character even know there is a daily. Only you know there’s a daily.

I don’t see how you can have it both ways. Either your character is a single individual in a game world, where dailies don’t actually exist (not in game) or your character is just an extension of you, in which case you can do what you want.

I think it’s a valid question. How do you justify, in game, that character knows what a daily is.

I really am curious.

I’m going to take a guess that it’s how people perceive their alts. I switch between mine at the drop of a hat. They aren’t real in any way, just pixels I maneuver across the landscape. From reading the forums though, I gather many people have a back story for each one and each character is invested with its own feelings and thoughts.

So if it’s ‘Sally Farstriders’ (level 10) day to play and while playing do the daily, it’s more difficult for the role playing type player to switch over to ‘Bob The Brave’ (level 80) to do what Sally can not. It’s her day and her tasks, not his. And the daily is the tasks she was planning to do that day.

Astral Projections.7320:

Vayne.8563:

BlueOcean.5380:

Vayne.8563:

My characters are separate individuals. It’s not a big brother. They don’t really all exist at the same time. We don’t all get to kill Zhaitan.

:-) Funny I was thinking of telling you the same thing: My characters are separate individuals. Precisely why they each wants to do their own daily.

My example about big brother getting in the way was trying to illustrate how each person is an individual. They each has the right to do their own daily, drink their own coke, without having another character do it for them.

I still have the same question. How does your character even know there is a daily. Only you know there’s a daily.

I don’t see how you can have it both ways. Either your character is a single individual in a game world, where dailies don’t actually exist (not in game) or your character is just an extension of you, in which case you can do what you want.

I think it’s a valid question. How do you justify, in game, that character knows what a daily is.

I really am curious.

I’m going to take a guess that it’s how people perceive their alts. I switch between mine at the drop of a hat. They aren’t real in any way, just pixels I maneuver across the landscape. From reading the forums though, I gather many people have a back story for each one and each character is invested with its own feelings and thoughts.

So if it’s ‘Sally Farstriders’ (level 10) day to play and while playing do the daily, it’s more difficult for the role playing type player to switch over to ‘Bob The Brave’ (level 80) to do what Sally can not. It’s her day and her tasks, not his. And the daily is the tasks she was planning to do that day.

Okay see, I’m one of those people that have a back story for every character. I know who they are. They all have different likes and dislikes. There are weapons I don’t like in game, but character’s likes can override mine because they decide they like a specific weapon.

In most cases like this, the only stuff a character knows is what a character experiences in world. I see a city under attack, I help it out, I fight off the centaurs, I know centaurs are the enemy.

In character, there’s nothing really in game for a daily to exist. Your character in game doesn’t see the UI at all, and so dailies don’t really enter their lives.

I mean it’s not like they have a screen they can click on. They can’t see event trackers.

That’s the only point I was making.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know. That’s the point. The daily never enters my characters life or mind. Only my mind. When I’m playing one character, my other character is doing whatever it is he’s doing. But he’s not aware the daily. And I don’t really see how he could be, since nothing in game tells him he needs to be doing stuff.

To Vayne on your RP question: (other stuff follow) We do direct our characters. :p It’s our mind that reads the event on the upper right hand corner of the screen, under daily. The text says daily, so we go through an instantaneous transformation on what it means to our characters.

I’m in no way feeling your rp is different from mine. I said we do it the same way. We just project differently. Ultimately that’s what makes rp fun, and why we enjoy rp. It’s a combo of imagination, and roleplay-driven story telling.

As rp’ers we are part writers. We let the story unfold, with the aid of in-game mechanics. It’s fun. For me, tonight I logged off my young toon without ever returning to do the daily with my level 80. For me, the level 80 has no place in the youngster’s frustration. My young ranger only feels lonely and frustrated that he heard other people went to fight a big boss, but he was not told where the boss was. Instead, while people his age all ran to the fight, they called for a big guardian to show up instead of him. He felt unwanted.

If I tried to log in my guardian to do the daily, it will be for my own sake as a player who wants to have the achievement credit for my account. But my guardian would only hear a call of duty from his squad. This is why I said you and I do the same thing.

:p Well, before we go too off topic, I’m going to end this discussion about RP.

Changes may be setting up for an expansion

Been thinking of this game. I keep feeling there is an expansion coming, and wonder how it will really turn out.

Some of the things I’m guessing:

—Mega-server is one way to reduce servers need to host old zones via combining player population from multiple servers into one.

—NPE is setting up for new player influx for an expansion next year.

— Many in-game expenses are introduced to drain the economy to save it from further inflation. The need to waypoint for just daily gathering may be one such measure, albeit very small in amount. We see even new toon instance drained of loot in the past, so apparently every bit helps.

— New dailies may be aimed at focusing player population in zones, in anticipation of long term expansions.

I see many indications, but with some of the holes in the new system, I am not getting the feeling there is well-coordinated task forces, or perhaps NCSoft has its vision, which it may be forcing on ANet. I’m not sure if some of the measures are well-planned. As someone pointed out, some things seems to work on paper, but not in reality.

I do love GW2. It’s my last hope atm for a fun mmorpg.

Time will tell. Atm I’m of the mind to wait and see. Thanks for your intelligent input on this forum. Read lots of your posts before.

Regardless of whether you like doing the dailies or not is irrelevant. The fact is we do not need to do them anymore. And I personally find that very liberating. For ages now I have wanted Anet to give us more freedom, to stop forcing us to do things we don’t want to do. And now, strangely with these very specific dailies, they have. I no longer feel forced to do them, so if I don’t want to do something in the dailies list I don’t have to.

The problem is many people have been conditioned to feel they have to do them, for fear of losing out on the laurels. But now the only real thing you miss out on are the achievement points, which due to them having a cap doesn’t really matter.

The system we have now is optional, and that is a step in the right direction imo.

These dailies are so horrible. You can shove this bs…

Vayne.8563:

BlueOcean.5380:

Vayne.8563:

My characters are separate individuals. It’s not a big brother. They don’t really all exist at the same time. We don’t all get to kill Zhaitan.

:-) Funny I was thinking of telling you the same thing: My characters are separate individuals. Precisely why they each wants to do their own daily.

My example about big brother getting in the way was trying to illustrate how each person is an individual. They each has the right to do their own daily, drink their own coke, without having another character do it for them.

I still have the same question. How does your character even know there is a daily. Only you know there’s a daily.

I don’t see how you can have it both ways. Either your character is a single individual in a game world, where dailies don’t actually exist (not in game) or your character is just an extension of you, in which case you can do what you want.

I think it’s a valid question. How do you justify, in game, that character knows what a daily is.

I really am curious.

If I needed to justify it would be fairly easy to say that the gods desire that I perform certain tasks and have promised to rain rewards down upon me from the heavens if I succeed.

The new daily system is neither good nor bad to me – just different. For as strongly as I feel about certain other things, this is one I wasn’t unhappy with for how it was in the beginning, wasn’t unhappy with what they changed it to and now, they’ve changed it again, and it still seems alright to me.

I suppose my least favorite mechanic to do with dailies has always been the laurels though, so I rather prefer the new login reward system insofar as that goes.

naiasonod.9265:

The new daily system is neither good nor bad to me – just different. For as strongly as I feel about certain other things, this is one I wasn’t unhappy with for how it was in the beginning, wasn’t unhappy with what they changed it to and now, they’ve changed it again, and it still seems alright to me.

I suppose my least favorite mechanic to do with dailies has always been the laurels though, so I rather prefer the new login reward system insofar as that goes.

Thats a pretty solid point IMO.

Dailies are chores IMO. What makes them good or bad is how quickly they can be gotten out of the way so that I can move on to what I want to do. I suppose its not that much different than real life in a way.

I suppose that my least favorite aspect of the changes is that resources were still being allocated to changing the system, and probably still are. I know that MMOs are in a constant state of evolution but it really does seem as Anet’s priorities are a bit off here. As much as I point out that the changes are an improvement for me the fact of the matter is that the old system worked just fine for me and I would rather have seen the effort put elsewhere.

I don’t feel a loss in not doing the daily. It’s another reason why I did not log in my lvl 80 for those daily events. The only reason my lvl 17 was sad was he was all alone. More a community-building issue due to alts not being informed on where the crowd may be at.

I had hoped to level up the alt. But I don’t look forward to being lonely till he can do daily crowd fun, which won’t be till near 80. So I’m giving up on him. 63 levels of loneliness heh. no way.

Rin.1046:

Regardless of whether you like doing the dailies or not is irrelevant. The fact is we do not need to do them anymore. And I personally find that very liberating. For ages now I have wanted Anet to give us more freedom, to stop forcing us to do things we don’t want to do. And now, strangely with these very specific dailies, they have. I no longer feel forced to do them, so if I don’t want to do something in the dailies list I don’t have to.

The problem is many people have been conditioned to feel they have to do them, for fear of losing out on the laurels. But now the only real thing you miss out on are the achievement points, which due to them having a cap doesn’t really matter.

The system we have now is optional, and that is a step in the right direction imo.

I don’t get it… You never needed to do them to begin with.

Maybe stupid, but I dislike you have to click the experience vials. While that may be a minor issue, and help player to ‘give EXP’ to alts, overall, I like the old system with an automatic ‘13000 exp’ pop up when completing daily more. It has more of the dynamic event feeling, like ‘I did something, and I got rewarded for it’.

A bandaid could be to actually show the exp you get in pop up (like when killing monsters), atm, you see nothing.

I agree with lot of posters some of dailies are to specific. Especially the pvp ones bother me. I dislike playing certain professions when i’m not in the mood for them. I have 600 hours played on every profession, and that is by playing them for a long time, till i’m bored, switching to another, etc. In that time, i’m fully focussed on one (or two at most) professions, and so being forced to do dailies with other profession feels like a chore.

For pve I dislike that farming materials has to be in specific area. It should be big area’s (kryta, ascalon etc), or even complete game.

The idea of specific world boss granting a daily chest (even extra rare), is very nice. However, I ended up, not getting 70% of these dailies so far, because, i couldnt be there at the time the boss spawns, wich is kinda lame.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

• Fix 2 – Daily Map Events – change to Daily Zone Events to counter zergs which faceroll poorly scaling content. Most likely won’t help because of the megaserver system.

Not sure what this is, but could also suggest the fix previous would slap that down a bit. Besides, if you try too hard to break the zerg, you hinder legitimate events in high level zones getting open participation. Which goes much more against the spirit of the game than this problem of facerolling things easily due to zergs.

Oh, by “zones” I meant “regions” – Kryta, Ascalon etc.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

We had these in the old system too, such as “Dodger”, “Ambient Killer”, “Skill Points”, “Leveler”. I’m somewhat happy with them reduced in scope. So long as there’s never more than one of these “gimme” tasks? I’m kind of okay with it.

Oh, right, could also throw “WvW Dolyak Killer” and “WvW Land Claimer” / “WvW Ruin Master” on the “gimme” achievements. Those are often painfully easy to get done.

“Dodger”, “Skill Points”, “Leveler”, “Condition Applier/Remover” are a part of the general game process; it’s not like some idiotic task to do which you were never planning to, rather, “since you’re in the shop anyway, get me some cheese and I’ll give you a candy”. “Ambient Killer” – yes, that’s more like vista viewer.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Rin.1046:

Regardless of whether you like doing the dailies or not is irrelevant. The fact is we do not need to do them anymore. And I personally find that very liberating. For ages now I have wanted Anet to give us more freedom, to stop forcing us to do things we don’t want to do. And now, strangely with these very specific dailies, they have. I no longer feel forced to do them, so if I don’t want to do something in the dailies list I don’t have to.

The problem is many people have been conditioned to feel they have to do them, for fear of losing out on the laurels. But now the only real thing you miss out on are the achievement points, which due to them having a cap doesn’t really matter.

The system we have now is optional, and that is a step in the right direction imo.

I don’t get it… You never needed to do them to begin with.

Technically no, but technically you don’t have to play the game either. But due to the laurels you had more need to do them. That need is no longer there and that is a good thing.

After this has been in the game for over a week. I can safely say this is a change for the better.

1) when I am in a hurry and do not have my daily 2 hours GW2 playtime, I would log into the game get the reward, log out. The way I see this, it is very much working towards a no grind situation.

2) We have 12 choices to complete our daily and only needed to complete any 3 of this 12s vs needing to complete 5 before, there are also always one really easy task in any of this 3 categories (PvP, PvE n WvW) for completion. This is also really good in maintaining a healthy populace in all 3 areas of the games.

It is a change towards the better in my humble opinion.

Good work.

Banrigh.5932:

For someone that plays absolutely NO WvW or PvP, the new dailies were a great disappointment. There are only three choices per day that can be done in PvE.

I also dislike the fact that you HAVE to do all of the ones (regardless if it’s PvE, PvP, or WvW, or a mix of the three) for any of them to get ANY points. I have only been able to get dailies done ONCE since the change because of this. I can’t stay up all night. I have to be up at 5am to get ready for work, therefore I go to bed at 10pm. That’s just not enough time, unless I log on as soon as I walk in the door when I get home, which just can’t happen. I have pets to care for, dinner to make and eat, and other things that occupy some of my evening time.

@Lishtenbird had some good ideas for improvement. I really agree with his idea of them being more generic…. like gathering ANYTHING in one area. I can do with that, but having it as one specific item (plant/ore/logs) in one specific area makes it a pain in the butt.

Vista Viewer = LAME!!! As someone who maps the entire area as I get to them, this makes it so that I’m doing something I’ve already done….. multiple times.

Exotic Crafter = what if a player hasn’t gotten to that level in any of the crafting professions yet?? That means it’s one less achievement that they can even attempt to do.

Mystic Forger = again, lame. I had to put in some weapons I had saved in storage for a low level toon so that I could complete the dailies the ONE TIME I’ve actually finished them.

Daily Fractal = I don’t do Fractals. I do PvE only. I don’t consider Fractals to be PvE – they’re dungeons. Totally separate thing imo. AND you have to have a group, not something you can do alone.

Event Completer = events in a specific area is somewhat difficult as you have to be in a specific spot to see any regular (non-meta) events that are nearby. You can’t just look at a map and find an area that has an event happening.

World Bosses = doable, as long as you have a group. My squishy light toons can’t kill Champion or higher bosses alone.

PLEASE rethink these changes…. everyone I have talked to about it is EXTREMELY disappointed and upset and even kittened off about these changes. They aren’t really workable.

My experience and opinions in the guild are quite the opposite, you log in and get the usual rewards just for starting the game up (seriously what extra effort?). Do not feel like doing a daily? No sweat you already got the general rewards (laurels, mystic coins, experience)

Rewards like pristine fractal relics, rare gear and pvp reward progression are great incentives for the specific activities of the day. These rewards were definitely not attainable through daillies in the old system. Again rewards for no effort compared to the old system.

The only thing you might struggle with is completing the daily in PVE for AP, which admittedly I really do not care about personally. However doing specific activites will definitely give a better sense of achievement, than for example completing your daily dodger or killing 50 monsters/ambient creatures.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

• Fix 2 – Daily Map Events – change to Daily Zone Events to counter zergs which faceroll poorly scaling content. Most likely won’t help because of the megaserver system.

Not sure what this is, but could also suggest the fix previous would slap that down a bit. Besides, if you try too hard to break the zerg, you hinder legitimate events in high level zones getting open participation. Which goes much more against the spirit of the game than this problem of facerolling things easily due to zergs.

Oh, by “zones” I meant “regions” – Kryta, Ascalon etc.

Oh, makes more sense doing that word swap. Still going to barely result in changing anything, I think . . . the zergs congregate where the easiest pickings are. Daily Kryta Slayer would still see Queensdale overrun for the quick kills, and Daily Shiverpeak Events would see people stick their nose into Wayfarer Foothills and run around the forest outside Hoelbrak to pick up the 5-6 events which are there and quickly recycle.

The zerg gravitates to the path of least resistance and then grinds it down into a path of no resistance.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

We had these in the old system too, such as “Dodger”, “Ambient Killer”, “Skill Points”, “Leveler”. I’m somewhat happy with them reduced in scope. So long as there’s never more than one of these “gimme” tasks? I’m kind of okay with it.

Oh, right, could also throw “WvW Dolyak Killer” and “WvW Land Claimer” / “WvW Ruin Master” on the “gimme” achievements. Those are often painfully easy to get done.

“Dodger”, “Skill Points”, “Leveler”, “Condition Applier/Remover” are a part of the general game process; it’s not like some idiotic task to do which you were never planning to, rather, “since you’re in the shop anyway, get me some cheese and I’ll give you a candy”. “Ambient Killer” – yes, that’s more like vista viewer.

Yes, well, Dodger was seen as an idiotic task by many and it was often stated to run counter to the intuition of the game – “Don’t help me kill that, I’m working dodger.”

The other three? It’s like the “Press Start” achievements people really don’t care for. It’s basically achievements for not doing anything but playing the game. I have issues with that, deep down, because I feel it cheapens the system somewhat. But that’s another thing entirely. I suppose they’re most useful for when you can look up a profile and see which achievements someone has, so you know how far they made it in the game . . . or where they stopped playing. Or just to review and go “oh, right I’m at that point in the game” if you’ve put it down for a month.

I see your point, but . . . “reward me for what I have to do anyway”? I don’t get why that should work. I don’t get a bonus at my job for doing my job, that’s why I get paid hourly. I get a bonus at my job for exceptional service, or for particular sets of sales. Maybe I’m just old-fashioned that way, but . . .

Rin.1046:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Rin.1046:

Regardless of whether you like doing the dailies or not is irrelevant. The fact is we do not need to do them anymore. And I personally find that very liberating. For ages now I have wanted Anet to give us more freedom, to stop forcing us to do things we don’t want to do. And now, strangely with these very specific dailies, they have. I no longer feel forced to do them, so if I don’t want to do something in the dailies list I don’t have to.

The problem is many people have been conditioned to feel they have to do them, for fear of losing out on the laurels. But now the only real thing you miss out on are the achievement points, which due to them having a cap doesn’t really matter.

The system we have now is optional, and that is a step in the right direction imo.

I don’t get it… You never needed to do them to begin with.

Technically no, but technically you don’t have to play the game either. But due to the laurels you had more need to do them. That need is no longer there and that is a good thing.

Maybe you should consider that different people have different self-imposed “needs”. I haven’t cared about laurels for a long time. I did like the near-effortless trickle of 5-8 AP per day though, and a lot of people did too. Now I get the part of the rewards I don’t care for free and need to do stupid pet tricks to get any AP at all. And I consider that a bad thing.

DutchRiders.2871:

My experience and opinions in the guild are quite the opposite, you log in and get the usual rewards just for starting the game up (seriously what extra effort?).

I’m not getting the rewards I consider the usual ones. All I get is more laurels and other stuff I have plenty of.

DutchRiders.2871:

Do not feel like doing a daily? No sweat you already got the general rewards (laurels, mystic coins, experience)

Scraps I don’t need or want.

DutchRiders.2871:

Rewards like pristine fractal relics, rare gear and pvp reward progression are great incentives for the specific activities of the day. These rewards were definitely not attainable through daillies in the old system. Again rewards for no effort compared to the old system.

Not interested, I got plenty of all of that when I played the specific content in the past.

DutchRiders.2871:

The only thing you might struggle with is completing the daily in PVE for AP, which admittedly I really do not care about personally.

And that’s just because you already get what was originally the reward you cared about for them for free when you log on.

DutchRiders.2871:

However doing specific activites will definitely give a better sense of achievement, than for example completing your daily dodger or killing 50 monsters/ambient creatures.

Yes, standing on the roof of a building in the Black Citadel or harvesting some plants in the jungle is so much more fulfilling. Maybe if I were a dog.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Maybe you should consider that different people have different self-imposed “needs”. I haven’t cared about laurels for a long time. I did like the near-effortless trickle of 5-8 AP per day though, and a lot of people did too. Now I get the part of the rewards I don’t care for free and need to do stupid pet tricks to get any AP at all. And I consider that a bad thing.

I get what you’re saying, but when you look at the rewards, and there purpose in the game, the new system makes more sense.

Laurels, essentially, are simply time gated materials used in the acquisition of ascended gear and other items. Their sole purpose in the game is to time gate certain content. AP on the other hand is supposed to show your mastery of the game. Yes, it is also a time gate mechanism for certain rewards, but its main purpose is to show how much you have achieved in the game. With that in mind, AP should require at least some effort to acquire, while laurels shouldn’t, imo.

Vayne.8563:

munkiman.3068:

Rin.1046:

Vayne.8563:

…snip…

<snip for brevity>

This is kind of where i sit as well. I’d much rather see camera improvements, ground targeting that stops at its edge, trait revamps for otherwise useless ones, regular balance passes, AI improvements, skills that still have glitched animations fixed, particle effects improvements (limits), etc. The main things people at the core tend to experience every day. To me, if an event (any event) is bugged, it would be fixed immediately and there are still a lot of bugged/broken events. Not to even mention scaling problems with most of them since megaserver.

This is where it gets interesting. See, I’m a long time player and some would even call me a hard core player, but I have completely different interests than many who post on the forum. Not that I wouldn’t like to see bugs fixed, that’s not what I’m saying.

My focus is not on mechanics. It has never been on mechanics. It will never be on mechanics. To me, focusing on the mechanics in any game ruins the game for me. I live with mechanics in games as a necessary evil. The less I think about mechanics the happier I am. I’m here to immerse myself in the world itself. What’s going on around me. The lore.

I don’t care if I’ve seen an event before, because it doesn’t matter. To my character it’s not an event. If centaurs raid a town it needs to be protected and if they raid a town again, it STILL needs to be protected.

I think there are a percentage of people who do focus on mechanics. I think there are a percentage of people who focus on immersion. I think there are a percentage of people who focus on rewards. And I’m reasonably sure none of us have an outright majority. And there’s crossover too, of course. Some people focus on rewards and mechanics or rewards and immersion. Or mechanics and immersion and care less about rewards.

This is why no change is going to ever be met with happy happy joy joy. Because each change is likely to satisfy one large minority while screwing over another.

I don’t like dungeons because they tend to focus on mechanics. As long as I have to be ultra aware during boss fights, dungeons don’t work for me. If they put 87 dungeons in the game, dungeon people would be thrilled…but I wouldn’t. lol

Not to go further off topic, but i’ve studied game design most of my life, this is why i see things the way i do. The point was i’d rather see these lingering improvements to the game before extra things are tacked on that really just cover the flaws. I personally believe the login rewards is where Arena “jumped the shark”.

As a gamer, first impressions and continued frustrations over the core system, are what often drive players away from a game, even if in part, it’s fun or rewarding. Most people don’t pin their experience down to stuff like this, unless it’s blatantly obvious.

One example of the blatantly obvious, is displaying excessive amounts of particle effects, when the engine clearly can’t handle it. This is a core function, which leaves players frustrated. Many will simply avoid large “epic” fights for this simple fact. Southsun was a perfect example of extremely poorly executed design, players were either getting kicked out in droves or attempting to play with sub par frame rates and skill lag. That was a turning point for most of my guild, they simply decided that they couldn’t play the game in that state.

While in design you’re often up against a lesser of 2 or more evils, some of the things that can be improved upon simply sit idle in the background while potential players leave in frustration. You don’t have to be focused on mechanics, a frustrating/annoying/negative experience is what it is, handing out cookies made of dirt, doesn’t make it any better. It still leaves a bad taste in ones mouth.

@munkiman

When you say you’ve studied game design, do you mean casually or in school? Because I’ve studied game design too, and I consider myself a gamer.

I agree the particle affect thing is silly. I always have agreed with that. But I don’t think that it has anything to do with this.

There are different people who work on different things. The same guy that works on lag issues isn’t the guy redesigning the achievement system.

The old daily achievements were fine as far as they went. They didn’t impact me one way or another. I didn’t think about them. I didn’t care about them. I took them for granted.

It was time for them to be changed, because they ceased doing what Anet wanted to them to do…whatever that was.

For a lot of people, laurels were no longer a currency that mattered. For other people, achievement points didn’t matter. They did what they were doing, Anet threw some stuff at them and that was it, except for hard core achievement hunters who were burning themselves out.

You know, Rift had a very similar experience with the big one time event early on in it’s lifetime also and had to apologize for it. People who were in queues who couldn’t get in. People lagging so bad they couldn’t do anything.

All that means is that they tried something and it didn’t work, just like Anet tried it and it didn’t work.

But the new dailies, a whole lot of people seem to like them. And a few people who didn’t like them as much at first are starting to come around.

Vayne.8563:

@munkiman

When you say you’ve studied game design, do you mean casually or in school? Because I’ve studied game design too, and I consider myself a gamer.

I agree the particle affect thing is silly. I always have agreed with that. But I don’t think that it has anything to do with this.

There are different people who work on different things. The same guy that works on lag issues isn’t the guy redesigning the achievement system.

The old daily achievements were fine as far as they went. They didn’t impact me one way or another. I didn’t think about them. I didn’t care about them. I took them for granted.

It was time for them to be changed, because they ceased doing what Anet wanted to them to do…whatever that was.

For a lot of people, laurels were no longer a currency that mattered. For other people, achievement points didn’t matter. They did what they were doing, Anet threw some stuff at them and that was it, except for hard core achievement hunters who were burning themselves out.

You know, Rift had a very similar experience with the big one time event early on in it’s lifetime also and had to apologize for it. People who were in queues who couldn’t get in. People lagging so bad they couldn’t do anything.

All that means is that they tried something and it didn’t work, just like Anet tried it and it didn’t work.

But the new dailies, a whole lot of people seem to like them. And a few people who didn’t like them as much at first are starting to come around.

I’m a hobbyist designer, i programmed my first text adventure game on an Apple 2. Since then i’ve always approached gaming in that sense, not just for immersion or entertainment, but as a study. A study on why a game is fundamentally fun or flawed. But it’s not about that, not my point anyway.

The only problem i have about the new system is the limits they placed on dailies. As a secondary issue, which only bothers me morally, is the login rewards. If it’s about simply getting more people to login, just to show that people are still playing for some upper management report, than it’s very misleading. A tactic i cannot stand to see games do. I don’t however claim to know the reason they chose it, but it still bugs me. Every time i log in i feel like a monkey that got a reward for pressing a button, it feels like a cheap tactic.

The NPE, this new system or many other QoL changes they’ve made, just don’t address the core reasons players don’t stick around. For awhile, the average earnings a player made, by simply just playing the game versus the “cost” of playing, left a lot of wealth goals out of reach, so i was quite glad to see them starting to really address that. Yet, they continue to focus on content and changes that funnel players into a fundamental flaw of the game itself. This is how players interact with your game, they aren’t at all concerned with where the resources come from (what team does what). Just that they’ve had a bad/negative experience.

In as much as you explain to the complaints, “well, that’s not the team that works on that stuff”, it literally doesn’t matter to the larger part of the player base. So for 2 years, no matter what logical reasoning behind changes, if the game still pushes people into fundamental flaws in your game, you’re doing it wrong.

Just as with the large scale battles. The platforming of the game is impacted by a pretty bad camera, and by bad i mean by the standards of even games 10 years old. I have a laundry list of items i would use to figure out what are of vital importance to a games success (at it’s basic core), right now GW2 is still hitting too many of those oops check marks.

Don’t like them either. Delays my things..

Firelysm.4967:

Don’t like them either. Delays my things..

Don’t do them then! It’s only 10 AP you’re missing out on! Log in, get your laurel progress (which is at a higher rate than before) and get to the things you want to do!

If collecting AP is what you want to do, then do the daily!

I like the new change but I do agree with the lack of choice. Only having 4 pve objectives is kinda boring, would be a lot nicer to have more things to go do.

Shanks.2907:

Firelysm.4967:

Don’t like them either. Delays my things..

Don’t do them then! It’s only 10 AP you’re missing out on! Log in, get your laurel progress (which is at a higher rate than before) and get to the things you want to do!

If collecting AP is what you want to do, then do the daily!

I wonder how people would’ve reacted if they’d reversed the reward arrangement: a few AP for logging in and the next entry in the 28 day reward cycle board for completing 3 dailies.

What I get from this post is that lots of players were doing (or not doing) dailies for a bunch of different reasons. Depending on why you did them, this change shifted your enjoyment (or lack of).

What I don’t get, what I never get with ANet changes… why not leave the old option when adding a new one? Let the PVE track have as many picks as it use to have, with the extras coming from the old mix. If you want to do the 3 quick specific ones – go do those. If you likes the slower, more generic ones – continue to do those.

Everyone happy!

Recent ANet changes always seem to needlessly rip out old stuff folks were enjoying. Traits, Greatest Fear… they all follow this pattern…

@munkiman.3068

The second part of what you’d said really has nothing to do with this topic though. The trait system has nothing to do with this topic. People’s dissatisfaction with other things…nothing to do with this topic.

The topic is the new rewards, and why some people dislike them. When my wife is yelling about something, very often she’s mad about something else completely. But she’s not yelling about what she’s mad about. She’s just mad and anything that I do at that point will end up earning her ire. This is how the game is. People are mad at all sorts of things, so they take it out on everything, even things that aren’t really that bad. There’s this sort of mob ready to pounce mentality.

The only real issue I take here though is your “moral” judgement. You think Anet added log in dailies to show higher numbers to management. I’m relatively certain that’s not how it works. It’s far more basic than that.

Stores put stuff in ads to get people into the store. If people don’t come in, people don’t buy. If people don’t buy the store goes out of business. So we run sales, promotions, limited time stuff…we advertise.

Anet is trying to get people to log in, because once they log in, something might catch their interest. Sure a bunch of people will log in and log out and those people aren’t helping the game. There’s no mystical number here that Anet is trying to meet. NcSoft surely doesn’t care about how many people log in. They care about profit. If the profit isn’t enough, it won’t matter if a zillion people log in. They still have a business to run which takes income.

And you can’t have income if people don’t come in. And some of those people will come in and find something cool, or interesting and start playing. And maybe they’ll meet someone they enjoy hanging out with and they’ll come back. Maybe they’ll run into a cool guild, which can make the game fun again.

Because if people aren’t logging in, then they can’t be enticed to stay awhile and perhaps spend money. In fact, even if they never spend money, but they continue to log in, they’re a boon to the game. Some of those people will buy gems with gold, which encourages others to buy gems to sell.

But it’s not just about making the numbers look good. All this really is is an attempt to get people through the door. What they do after that is as individual as the person. But you can’t make sales if you don’t have customers. It’s something all businesses do.

Old achievements was content some of us enjoyed. Content, not rewards (sure, we might have liked the rewards too). Not as a specific thing to do, as a framework around which we built our daily play.

Rather than leave that in place and add new stuff, they rip it out. Stuff I enjoyed — gone.

Same with Traits, same with Greatest Fear — All these improvements that involve ripping out old stuff folks liked. I have never played a game that ripped out so much stuff folks were using.

That’s it — nothing about morals or stores or all that other goofy stuff.

For the record: I seem to have stopped playing. Without achievements to frame an evenings play, I haven’t felt compelled to log in. Certainly not for a login reward / hamster pellet…

Manasa Devi.7958:

DutchRiders.2871:

My experience and opinions in the guild are quite the opposite, you log in and get the usual rewards just for starting the game up (seriously what extra effort?).

I’m not getting the rewards I consider the usual ones. All I get is more laurels and other stuff I have plenty of.

DutchRiders.2871:

Do not feel like doing a daily? No sweat you already got the general rewards (laurels, mystic coins, experience)

Scraps I don’t need or want.

DutchRiders.2871:

Rewards like pristine fractal relics, rare gear and pvp reward progression are great incentives for the specific activities of the day. These rewards were definitely not attainable through daillies in the old system. Again rewards for no effort compared to the old system.

Not interested, I got plenty of all of that when I played the specific content in the past.

DutchRiders.2871:

The only thing you might struggle with is completing the daily in PVE for AP, which admittedly I really do not care about personally.

And that’s just because you already get what was originally the reward you cared about for them for free when you log on.

DutchRiders.2871:

However doing specific activites will definitely give a better sense of achievement, than for example completing your daily dodger or killing 50 monsters/ambient creatures.

Yes, standing on the roof of a building in the Black Citadel or harvesting some plants in the jungle is so much more fulfilling. Maybe if I were a dog.

“Ugh. Darn you a.net! How dare you give me 10 ap for completing three trivially easy tasks when I was perfectly happy getting 5 ap for completing those other five trivially easy tasks!?”

Also, really it’s enough with the sarcastic dog references. Daily dodger, reviver and all the other generic dailies were no different than the vista viewer.

Subdue.5479:

“Ugh. Darn you a.net! How dare you give me 10 ap for completing three trivially easy tasks when I was perfectly happy getting 5 ap for completing those other five trivially easy tasks!?”

That’s a rather silly way to look at the new system. I thought you liked it. Had a change of heart?

Subdue.5479:

Also, really it’s enough with the sarcastic dog references. Daily dodger, reviver and all the other generic dailies were no different than the vista viewer.

Better get used to it or stop reading my posts, because it’s the only way I will ever refer to the current system of dalies. Stupid pet tricks.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Subdue.5479:

“Ugh. Darn you a.net! How dare you give me 10 ap for completing three trivially easy tasks when I was perfectly happy getting 5 ap for completing those other five trivially easy tasks!?”

That’s a rather silly way to look at the new system. I thought you liked it. Had a change of heart?

Subdue.5479:

Also, really it’s enough with the sarcastic dog references. Daily dodger, reviver and all the other generic dailies were no different than the vista viewer.

Better get used to it or stop reading my posts, because it’s the only way I will ever refer to the current system of dalies. Stupid pet tricks.

Sarcasm.

Sarcasm doesn’t work if it has no basis in truth.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Sarcasm doesn’t work if it has no basis in truth.

Which of the following are you contesting?

You previously had to do 5 dailies.
The old dailies were easy.
You received 5 ap for doing 5 dailies.
You now only need to do 3 dailies.
The new dailies are easy.
You now get 10 ap for doing 3 dailies.

These are the “truths” upon which my sarcastic comment is based.

I’m not contesting any of that. The problem is in the things you’re disingenuously leaving out, things that have been stated by various people, over and over in this thread. I’m not going to repeat them for you because you already know them. I don’t do stupid pet tricks on the forum either.

Subdue.5479:

You previously had to do 5 dailies.
The old dailies were easy.
You received 5 ap for doing 5 dailies.
You now only need to do 3 dailies.
The new dailies are easy.
You now get 10 ap for doing 3 dailies.

The old dailies were mostly general. You did them as you played. They might divert you down a slightly different path, like you might actually do that jumping puzzle you’d otherwise skip, but they were easy to incorporate into your play.

The new dailies are specific. They are quick, easy tasks you clear before you start playing. They feel like stupid old NPC delivery quests to get your daily hamster pellet.

Big difference.

Manasa Devi.7958:

I’m not contesting any of that. The problem is in the things you’re disingenuously leaving out, things that have been stated by various people, over and over in this thread. I’m not going to repeat them for you because you already know them. I don’t do stupid pet tricks on the forum either.

Thank you for confirming that you agree the new dailies are both easy and more rewarding than the previous dailies.

Mr Snotty Pants.3980:

Subdue.5479:

You previously had to do 5 dailies.
The old dailies were easy.
You received 5 ap for doing 5 dailies.
You now only need to do 3 dailies.
The new dailies are easy.
You now get 10 ap for doing 3 dailies.

The old dailies were mostly general. You did them as you played. They might divert you down a slightly different path, like you might actually do that jumping puzzle you’d otherwise skip, but they were easy to incorporate into your play.

The new dailies are specific. They are quick, easy tasks you clear before you start playing. They feel like stupid old NPC delivery quests to get your daily hamster pellet.

Big difference.

I prefer to spend my limited okay time dungeoning. Most of the dailies indeed require me to go out of my way, including:

Gatherer
Event completer
Laurel vendor
Daily activity
Ambient slayer
Kill variety

Heck, even dodger and reviver usually required going out of my way, depending on my dungeon rotation that day as quick clears require less dodging, and result in few if any deaths. I often found myself going to Brisbane to that heart with all the dead around it for reviving.

Only a very specific playfully was having this "never going out of your way "experience.

So, post about your own experiences. Don’t falsely attribute them to other posters who have clearly stated their own experiences repeatedly. Arguing in bad faith isn’t helping anyone.

Manasa Devi.7958:

So, post about your own experiences. Don’t falsely attribute them to other posters who have clearly stated their own experiences repeatedly. Arguing in bad faith isn’t helping anyone.

Have you noticed that pvp players haven’t complained? Neither have wvw players? Ap hunters? This isn’t just my experience, it’s the experience for most of the play styles. Easy, accessible dailies with greater rewards is a benefit to everyone.

It’s pretty obvious that a.net’s goal with the new dailies is to move players around to under utilized content, and they’ve done it in a way such that the incentive to move around is there, but if you don’t want to, you’re not forced to as all but the ap reward has been moved to the login reward.

My question to you is this: what is intrinsically wrong with being expected to go out of your way for a reward?