Guild Wars 2

Everyone gets exactly the same things, new or veteran. An account code that allows you to start a new, fresh account that includes the core game and HoT expansion with 5 character slots…or…includes the ability to upgrade an existing account.

These two choices are available for anyone who buys Heart of Thorns. There is absolutely no difference if you are ‘old’ or ‘new’.

Now, people without an existing account have less choice, of course, than ‘veterans’, but both get exactly the same products and the choices of what to do with said product.

Good luck.

I was just thinking on buying the HOT Ultimate for myself and for my fianceé. But since the first two bundle are so badly priced and most of my guildies won’t play the game if it stays like this…

I am boycotting the purchase now!

For the sake of the veteran players (and the lads who bought the game two months ago…) change the content/price-tag! Otherwise you going to loose MY money as well…

I buy some gems every 2-3 month for the two accounts we play on. You are going to loose this too.

I like your game so far and I’m willing to buy the HoT IF you change a few things!

And yes: Please get this as a threat!

I purchased the game at full price $39.99 directly from ANet because it was “required” for the expansion. The gap between their initial “It requires the base game to play”, the start of the discounts and the subsequent bait-and-switch is in the order of MONTHS.

I paid 20 for the heroic pack, but I don’t think Arenanet wants my money because im throwing money at the screen and they refuse to offer expansion pack only. Oh well…

I am personally outraged at this decision by ANet and their explanation that they’re giving away the core for free with the expansion (which is coincidentally the same price as the core.) That’s like buying a new pair of shoes just for the shoe laces and being told that the rest of the shoe is being given to you for free. I don’t find this explanation rational especially towards existing players, and if £34 is for the expansion then I’d expect a much larger expansion than the one described on the wiki. It doesn’t seem worth it to me.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

I don’t care how free the base game is, I want a version that does not include it.

Zephyr.9320:

I purchased the game at full price $39.99 directly from ANet because it was “required” for the expansion. The gap between their initial “It requires the base game to play”, the start of the discounts and the subsequent bait-and-switch is in the order of MONTHS.

I understand where your coming from . The packaging is messed up . On purpose or not. Here’s how sales work. Being a manager of a supermarket for 5 yrs. Companies have to find a way to get there return profit back. In this case to cover that margin there using the vets to cover all the free copies given free to new players. That’s what’s so frustrating. Some grocery stores ushigh-lo sales tactic. Marking an item up way to high just b4 it goes on sale. For instance: hamburger buns are on sale so they drastically raise the price of ketchup that week . It’s a similar tactic only in this case ppl who own the game are the only ones paying for the margin

I guess the real lesson for ANet here is to not try to do anything nice for their players.

ANet is including the base game as a courtesy to new players. This is not a new practice: EQ 2 used to include not only the base game, but ALL previous expansion packs with each expansion. I can understand someone who purchased the full game recently being frustrated, but most of the complaints are from “veteran players” and are just plain ridiculous.
The morning of the E3 stream, feedback was “hype”: “I can’t wait to preorder,” “Please take my money,” etc.. Preorders are released and now the hard work of all the developers is being spat upon over a small amount of money. Nothing about the game has changed.

Just because we got char slots with each new CHAPTER of GW1, does not mean we are entitled to one for free here – in fact, the only true “expansion” of GW1 did not come with a free character slot. ANet never once told us to expect a character slot – if you did, your disappointment is not ANet’s fault.

I do not think ANet is perfect, not by a longshot, and I question/“boycott” some of their business practices (like paid RNG). I can totally understand not wanting to preorder yet because we do not know enough about the game, but this level of negativity is disgusting and, frankly, stinks of the entitled gamer attitude. Let’s not forget that ANet is a business and, therefore, needs to make money so we can play. Keep in mind that some MMOs have a monthly subscription in addition to requiring the purchase of their expansion for $40+.

I hope ANet sticks to their guns on this. I’m getting the Ultimate Edition. I cheaped out on Prophecies and still regret not getting those gloves.

This is simply disgusting, like many have said it’s just a big slap on the face on existing players (but maybe i should say customers) that supported the game both playing and with micro-transactions on the gem store for these 3 years.
All this kittenstorm is not about the price, is about the DISPARITY on the offer given, not to mention those who bought the core game recently because they were told they would need it to play the expansion. And legally valid or not, that’s false advertising.

To add insult to injury they don’t seem to care about the situation and make jokes or use the standard reply: “we’re reading your feedback…” blabla. After 3 years of supporting i personally expected, and probably deserved, better.

What ANet should have done was never to describe this as an expansion. What they are selling is a “new” game that includes the original as well. If you add it to your existing account you will still have access to your characters and bank. It’s a major marketing faux pa that they couldn’t come up with a better description based on what they are delivering.

As an aside, honestly people, every time ANet puts out content that some small fanatical group of players hate they disrupt access to the forums, wiki or the game itself. What? You don’t get your way so everyone gets to suffer?

Zephyr.9320:

I purchased the game at full price $39.99 directly from ANet because it was “required” for the expansion. The gap between their initial “It requires the base game to play”, the start of the discounts and the subsequent bait-and-switch is in the order of MONTHS.

This is actually part of a price development I keep scratching my head to understand.

Not long ago, Guild Wars 2 was worth $40. Then it was sold on discount for $20, and even $10. Well I can understand discounts, they happen from time to time and are generally very nice for the customer.

But today Guild Wars 2 is now worth $0. Zero. Zip. It’s so cheap it can be thrown as a free sider for an expansion – which is itself is now worth $50.

An expansion that adds some features and content to.. a game that’s now worth zero?

And the result is supposed to make it easier for new players to get into the game. Only the game is apparently no longer available – not for $40, not for $20 or $10. It’s my understanding that the game is in fact not available at all anymore, except as a free sider for.. an expansion prepurchase. Which actually costs $50. So the only way to actually get the game, is to buy kitten prepurchase, and get the game for free?

But then, if someone is not comfortable with committing to pre purchase of an expansion of which there isn’t very much actual information available.. but would rather just buy the well documented game for.. I don’t really know what value..? How would they be able to work that out?

Well I suppose some retailers somewhere likely still have copies available.

synfullydevine.3642:

Zephyr.9320:

I purchased the game at full price $39.99 directly from ANet because it was “required” for the expansion. The gap between their initial “It requires the base game to play”, the start of the discounts and the subsequent bait-and-switch is in the order of MONTHS.

I understand where your coming from . The packaging is messed up . On purpose or not. Here’s how sales work. Being a manager of a supermarket for 5 yrs. Companies have to find a way to get there return profit back. In this case to cover that margin there using the vets to cover all the free copies given free to new players. That’s what’s so frustrating. Some grocery stores ushigh-lo sales tactic. Marking an item up way to high just b4 it goes on sale. For instance: hamburger buns are on sale so they drastically raise the price of ketchup that week . It’s a similar tactic only in this case ppl who own the game are the only ones paying for the margin

And not even being compensated via the key to the base game (because anet would lose sales), gems, a friggin character slot OR a stand alone expansion LIKE EVERY EXPANSION the original GW did.

It been said mufti times, though I do not have a sorce handy atm, that Anet is upgrading player, or something who recently bought the game to come with Hot, now I do not know how long back, but at least they are doing that and that good.

MMOGamer.6175:

synfullydevine.3642:

Zephyr.9320:

I purchased the game at full price $39.99 directly from ANet because it was “required” for the expansion. The gap between their initial “It requires the base game to play”, the start of the discounts and the subsequent bait-and-switch is in the order of MONTHS.

I understand where your coming from . The packaging is messed up . On purpose or not. Here’s how sales work. Being a manager of a supermarket for 5 yrs. Companies have to find a way to get there return profit back. In this case to cover that margin there using the vets to cover all the free copies given free to new players. That’s what’s so frustrating. Some grocery stores ushigh-lo sales tactic. Marking an item up way to high just b4 it goes on sale. For instance: hamburger buns are on sale so they drastically raise the price of ketchup that week . It’s a similar tactic only in this case ppl who own the game are the only ones paying for the margin

And not even being compensated via the key to the base game (because anet would lose sales), gems, a friggin character slot OR a stand alone expansion LIKE EVERY EXPANSION the original GW did.

you got it. If they didn’t bundle it and charged 40 and kept doing 10 $ sales might have been better route. Here’s what my thoughts are. They feel there losing money on alt accts. They didn’t want anymore ppl already playing the game to get it for 10. Just a theory

RDarken.2495:

I guess the real lesson for ANet here is to not try to do anything nice for their players.

They’re not doing anything for their players. They’re doing something nice for prospective players. Current players are feeling a bit miffed about it. They feel like their loyalty isn’t being appreciated by the company.

RDarken.2495:

Preorders are released and now the hard work of all the developers is being spat upon over a small amount of money. Nothing about the game has changed.

If it’s just a small amount of money, can you please gift me one HoT code? Your generosity can keep me in the game. Thanks a bunch.

RDarken.2495:

Keep in mind that some MMOs have a monthly subscription in addition to requiring the purchase of their expansion for $40+.

Yes indeed, that’s why we’re here, and not there. Also keep in mind that other MMOs don’t have a monthly sub. Those are the ones we should be comparing GW2 with.

RDarken.2495:

I hope ANet sticks to their guns on this. I’m getting the Ultimate Edition. I cheaped out on Prophecies and still regret not getting those gloves.

I really hope the players don’t bulge on this one and the company finally decides to address the issues in this thread and others. Especially the more serious questions about the actual amount of content we’ll be getting (number of zones for example, number of events, adventures, challenging group content etc), the average time required to complete the story, how many and which we’ll be getting from the new legendary list, all the specializations, and -ultimately- a release date and a complete feature list, so the company can be held accountable towards its customers. People should know what it is they’re buying and when it is expected to be available.

RDarken.2495:

I guess the real lesson for ANet here is to not try to do anything nice for their players.

ANet is including the base game as a courtesy to new players. This is not a new practice: EQ 2 used to include not only the base game, but ALL previous expansion packs with each expansion. I can understand someone who purchased the full game recently being frustrated, but most of the complaints are from “veteran players” and are just plain ridiculous.
The morning of the E3 stream, feedback was “hype”: “I can’t wait to preorder,” “Please take my money,” etc.. Preorders are released and now the hard work of all the developers is being spat upon over a small amount of money. Nothing about the game has changed.

Just because we got char slots with each new CHAPTER of GW1, does not mean we are entitled to one for free here – in fact, the only true “expansion” of GW1 did not come with a free character slot. ANet never once told us to expect a character slot – if you did, your disappointment is not ANet’s fault.

I do not think ANet is perfect, not by a longshot, and I question/“boycott” some of their business practices (like paid RNG). I can totally understand not wanting to preorder yet because we do not know enough about the game, but this level of negativity is disgusting and, frankly, stinks of the entitled gamer attitude. Let’s not forget that ANet is a business and, therefore, needs to make money so we can play. Keep in mind that some MMOs have a monthly subscription in addition to requiring the purchase of their expansion for $40+.

I hope ANet sticks to their guns on this. I’m getting the Ultimate Edition. I cheaped out on Prophecies and still regret not getting those gloves.

Well certainly you are ‘entitled’ to your opinion, but I question the accuracy of your statements. Altar of Malice is the newest expansion for EQ2, and at least on steam it doesn’t include anything more than that particular expansion. Of course it’s questionable to do comparisons to begin with since EQ2 is more or less a F2P game these days.

Like I’ve said on earlier post, it is indeed common practice to make bundles of previous expansions. BUT. That generally includes only the old expansions, not the newest one. When a game has a dozen expansions out through it’s many years of life, it would become prohibitive for new player to catch up – the cost could be up over $1000 to buy the whole lineup of expansions. So the older ones are bundled – or sometimes simply given free with the purchase of the base game. What GW2 is doing here though, is opposite.

As for GW1, Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall were technically separate games which you could purchase and play standalone. It’s difficult to compare them to expansion. You’re correct that EoTN was the only true expansion to GW1, and did not come with character slot. Neither did it come with new professions (or classes), though.

When combined with existing Prophecies game, the Factions and Nightfall each added two more classes, and two more character slots. Of course you could also say that it was a net loss, because if used standalone, they would both come with four character slots.

As for subscription MMOs, the comparison doesn’t seem relevant because their whole business model is completely different. They are also exceedingly rare these days. WoW and FFXIV come to mind, and that’s about it. ESO just went to buy-to-play model, and Wildstar is moving to fully F2P model this fall.

I will NOT be purchasing HoT at its inflated, insulting price. I MIGHT buy it in a year or so when it’s on sale for 10$, but my goodwill vanished when I saw you can’t buy the expansion by itself.

ANet is banking on the influx of new players to boost their revenue. New players purchase things in the gem store so ANet makes money hand over fist. They don’t care about veterans and that is very clear. This is such a blatant ripoff cashgrab it’s shocking. Why not just e-mail us a picture of your CEOs flipping off the camera? That would have been less deceptive.

Guild Wars 2 is going Buy-2-Win and Buy-2-Play at a shocking rate, and I don’t think I’ll be playing for much longer. It’s really sad, because I was a rabid GW1 player. They drove away a loyal customer.

A comment from Reddit that I haven’t seen here…

This is how this move comes across to the veteran playerbase. I will use an Xbox as an example.
Microsoft: Hey, we got a great deal for you all! We have a new addon to our current product called the Kinect!
User: Awesome, how much does it cost?
M: Just $200.00! And it comes with a free xbox!
U: Oh, that’s a bit pricey. What if I already have an xbox though? Can I just buy the Kinect by itself?
M: No, sorry. We only sell it with an xbox included, as the xbox is required to fully enjoy the awesomeness that is Kinect.
U: Oh, well, I guess I could at least just give the ‘free’ xbox to a friend who hasn’t experienced xbox yet.
M: Yeah, about that. We forgot to mention, if you already have an xbox you don’t get another one. You only get the Kinect.
U: For the full $200?!
M: Yes.

shady stuff…
I pre-purchased because I want the expansion…but I also want the “free” core game that they said was included. note no where on the purchase page or FAQ does it state that the core game that’s included is for new players only.

Anet, are you crazy?
do you think really we are going to buy that?
that price is to laugh of us?

Congratz Anet, you made it to French PC Press :

http://www.nextinpact.com/news/95455-guild-wars-2-extension-heart-of-thorns-se-paye-au-prix-fort.htm

This is what Anet propose to people that ask for an HoT upgrade when they bought GW2 before the FAQ ninja update.

I was really excited for this expansion. I prepurchased the core game right away and have been playing since beta, as well has having spent a decent amount in the gem store. I saw HoT was ready for prepurchase and raced right over…and….I’m not happy.

I understand the intent is to give something nice to new players. I understand you are valuing the expansion at $50 on its own. Unfortunately, I can no longer justify this purchase and will not be getting HoT anytime soon.

$50 is practically what I paid for the base game, and from what I’ve heard of HoT, it’s just not worth that much. It also kind of stings that you’re willing to reward hypothetical new players with a free game, but give absolutely nothing to longtime supporters.

Sorry, but I’ll survive without HoT until it goes on sale. Or until you make another expansion and give HoT away free to people who don’t have it yet -__-

papry.8096:

This is what Anet propose to people that ask for an HoT upgrade when they bought GW2 before the FAQ ninja update.

I’d have to say it’s unacceptable in my opinion. I could accept most of it, but the loss of possible gems purchased seems wrong, and to be unable to link GW1 to new account would be a deal breaker for me. The loss of game progress would be unfortunate but understandable, being forced to use a different email wouldn’t matter much since you could just make a new gmail account for it.

ReiCH.6273:

If it’s just a small amount of money, can you please gift me one HoT code? Your generosity can keep me in the game. Thanks a bunch.

When I said “small amount of money,” I was referring to the cost of a character slot and/or the delta between the price people think the game should be and what it actually is.

ReiCH.6273:

Especially the more serious questions about the actual amount of content we’ll be getting (number of zones for example, number of events, adventures, challenging group content etc), the average time required to complete the story, how many and which we’ll be getting from the new legendary list, all the specializations, and -ultimately- a release date and a complete feature list, so the company can be held accountable towards its customers. People should know what it is they’re buying and when it is expected to be available.

As I said, this is a totally reasonable reason not to preorder.

Kitsune.1902:

Well certainly you are ‘entitled’ to your opinion, but I question the accuracy of your statements. Altar of Malice is the newest expansion for EQ2, and at least on steam it doesn’t include anything more than that particular expansion.

I imagine they stopped doing it upon the switch to F2P (I never really played the game, so haven’t followed it), but they did do it. Looks like Destiny of Velious was the last one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest_II_expansions#Destiny_of_Velious
“Destiny of Velious is the seventh EverQuest II expansion pack. The expansion also gives access to all previous released expansions and adventure packs.”

Kitsune.1902:

Like I’ve said on earlier post, it is indeed common practice to make bundles of previous expansions. BUT. That generally includes only the old expansions, not the newest one.

But don’t we always praise ANet for doing things outside the norm? We’re always so happy when they break the rules and make things cheaper (“no subscription fees”), so it really shouldn’t even be that surprising for us that they’re doing this.

Kitsune.1902:

As for subscription MMOs, the comparison doesn’t seem relevant because their whole business model is completely different. They are also exceedingly rare these days. WoW and FFXIV come to mind, and that’s about it. ESO just went to buy-to-play model, and Wildstar is moving to fully F2P model this fall.

I don’t understand why the comparison is irrelevant: They are MMOs and we are talking about the cost of the game. To play WoW or FFXIV, you have to buy the game, plus pay a monthly fee. Also, similar to the move by ANet, WoW made all expansions except the latest one built into the core game, so all you’d need to buy to jump in would be the latest expansion:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15355237075

I want to add my voice to the chorus of dissent. I would have pre-purchased the Legendary Edition without a second thought, but the whole principle of the thing has made me decide not to pre-purchase until ArenaNet makes some changes.

The whole ordeal feels like ArenaNet told me and my friends they don’t need our business and to kitten off. The expansion is expensive as is, but asking us to buy another character slot on top of that is an insult to injury. Then to turn around and dangle it in the collectors edition (because you know we need the charcacter slot) was a scumbag move.

On top of that I bought the game as a gift for a number of people because I was told that HoT would require the core game, but then they turn around and include it in the expansion. To make it worse, they claim it’s included free… But where is my extra copy of the guild wars 2 core? So as Far as I’m concerned you lost the high ground in claiming it’s an added bonus. It’s just now HoT is included in the core game and you want all the veteran players to buy it again.

Perhaps its some upper management playing with spreadsheets that brought us to this… Where ArenaNet is asking everybody to buy the game twice, provide no expansion only option, and then nickel and dime us for character slots to play the new class.

Well to that I say ArenaNet needs to take this backlash and use it to fight the management. It doesn’t take much to fix this. Give us an additional character slot with the basic expansion. Acknowledge you asked people to buy core game before buying the expansion, then give everyone who owns the core game like $20 in gems rather than discounting the price.

That is it. That is all you need to do. Give the expansion slot to the Lowest package, and if people already own the game, give them like $20 worth of gems as a “rebate” on already owning the core game. If you do this, I’ll pre-order the Legendary Edition.

If not, there are plenty of games out there that have gone free to play I can move on to.

papry.8096:

This is what Anet propose to people that ask for an HoT upgrade when they bought GW2 before the FAQ ninja update.

wow… just wow… what happened to the reddit statements that they would upgrade the people who bought it right before the ninja faq change?

so the only choice offered is, either re buy the thing or lose everything, including progress and gem purchases…

can we please get an official response to this? this is important, these things make or break a company’s reputation…

My big question…

Does the preorder come with a separate code for the base game? Can I give that code to someone else, so they have the base game and can play the content in it?

Baltov.9608:

I already own GW2 I don’t need another copy

This works out for you perfectly. Since you already have an account, the ‘GW1 copy’ will be void when you attach the key to your account for HoT. No extra copy, just your account upgraded with HoT.

Oh hey, I apologize if it was already brought up but since this thread became huge… I have just noticed a thing and I wanted to bring it to attention to anyone pondering about the Ultimate version. This appeared in their official email about the pre-purchase:

The Ultimate edition of the game includes all of the above in addition to 4,000 gems. The Ultimate edition will not be available as an upgrade and must be purchased as a full game package.

(highlight is mine) In other words, purchasing the Ultimate you are going to get a brand new account with the core game plus expansion and its shinnies.

PrincessHope.2081:

My big question…

Does the preorder come with a separate code for the base game? Can I give that code to someone else, so they have the base game and can play the content in it?

It does not. The (1) one Code covers both games. If you apply it to an existing account, you only get HoT. If you start a new account, you get both Core + HoT.

This for the Standard game. The Deluxe and Ultimate editions require one to buy the Core game at full price.

PrincessHope.2081:

My big question…

Does the preorder come with a separate code for the base game? Can I give that code to someone else, so they have the base game and can play the content in it?

as far as we know no. if you apply the hot code onto your existing gw2 account no other code is provided. the free game is only for new players. not existing

shadow.6174:

Oh hey, I apologize if it was already brought up but since this thread became huge… I have just noticed a thing and I wanted to bring it to attention to anyone pondering about the Ultimate version. This appeared in their official email about the pre-purchase:

The Ultimate edition of the game includes all of the above in addition to 4,000 gems. The Ultimate edition will not be available as an upgrade and must be purchased as a full game package.

(highlight is mine) In other words, purchasing the Ultimate you are going to get a brand new account with the core game plus expansion and its shinnies.

This is incorrect. Lets look at GW2 Core. You are able to upgrade from the standard to the Digital Deluxe (they have that currently in the Gemstore). This is what that means. One will not be able to upgrade from a Standard or Digital Deluxe to an Ultimate Edition. The Ultimate Deluxe edition will be added as an HoT expansion to existing accounts separately on its own.

Weylin.6478:

If you buy GW2 now, it comes with HoT.
If you already have the game, you are losing out if you just go with an upgrade.
If you get it as a separate account, you get 4 character slots + HoT.
If you get it as an upgrade, you get HoT, nothing else.

Just a week ago, GW2 was $40.

Everyone who just purchased GW2 for $40 will now have to buy it AGAIN for $50.
Anyone who’s just now showing up will have to pay the $50 for GW+HoT, that’s fine.

So veterans and intermediates alike got massively ripped off as they are having to pay the equivalent of $90 to get the full package.

This is punishing early adopters and recent buyers of the game, a friend of mine has been trying to get money set aside for weeks to buy GW2 and he finally gets it, and then this happens… If he had known, he would have just waited a few weeks and paid the extra $10 for all of the content.

The base game is a bonus. Would you still be this upset had it not been included and the expansion was still $50 nonetheless like the had planned for it to be?

RDarken.2495:

Kitsune.1902:

Well certainly you are ‘entitled’ to your opinion, but I question the accuracy of your statements. Altar of Malice is the newest expansion for EQ2, and at least on steam it doesn’t include anything more than that particular expansion.

I imagine they stopped doing it upon the switch to F2P (I never really played the game, so haven’t followed it), but they did do it. Looks like Destiny of Velious was the last one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest_II_expansions#Destiny_of_Velious
“Destiny of Velious is the seventh EverQuest II expansion pack. The expansion also gives access to all previous released expansions and adventure packs.”

Kitsune.1902:

Like I’ve said on earlier post, it is indeed common practice to make bundles of previous expansions. BUT. That generally includes only the old expansions, not the newest one.

But don’t we always praise ANet for doing things outside the norm? We’re always so happy when they break the rules and make things cheaper (“no subscription fees”), so it really shouldn’t even be that surprising for us that they’re doing this.

Kitsune.1902:

As for subscription MMOs, the comparison doesn’t seem relevant because their whole business model is completely different. They are also exceedingly rare these days. WoW and FFXIV come to mind, and that’s about it. ESO just went to buy-to-play model, and Wildstar is moving to fully F2P model this fall.

I don’t understand why the comparison is irrelevant: They are MMOs and we are talking about the cost of the game. To play WoW or FFXIV, you have to buy the game, plus pay a monthly fee. Also, similar to the move by ANet, WoW made all expansions except the latest one built into the core game, so all you’d need to buy to jump in would be the latest expansion:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/15355237075

Looks like a few of the expansions on the list do have a note that they give access to previous ones, most of them don’t. Hard to say if wiki just fails to mention it. Either way they didn’t include the access to base game. I couldn’t say if those expansions gave the access to previous ones right at the time they were released, or only later on, possibly when the new expansion came out. I do recall either EQ or EQ2 offered bundles of earlier expansions, but generally excluded the latest one from the bundles. That may have been EQ1, it’s been so many years I can’t really remember for sure.

What WoW is doing there is pretty much what I was talking about. Bundling the earlier expansions but not the latest. All you need is to buy the game AND the latest expansion – unless you already own the game.

But then again, being a subscription based model the basics are different. Their revenue comes mainly from subscription, which leaves the cash shop to much smaller role if it exists at all.

The comparison is not relevant in my opinion because the distribution of costs is very different. Without subscription, the game has to nickel and dime the revenue through cash shop for the most part. You can’t really compare the sub fee plus expansions, to the expansions of F2P or B2P games, without taking account the role of the cash shop.

Bag slots, bank tabs, gathering tools, gear skins, transmutation stones, living story episodes – everything really. Sure, none of it is necessary. Neither do you have to pay the monthly subscription every month. You can play for one month, 18 hours a day.. then take a break for 5 months.. and then play for 1 month again. You monthly sub was just cut to 2 months a year.

For me personally the games with monthly sub are not an option, because I’d feel like I HAVE to play them as much as possible, or I lose money. I play several games on and off as the mood hits, I don’t focus on one game exclusively.. and that just isn’t feasible with subscription based games.

Ayrilana.1396:

Weylin.6478:

If you buy GW2 now, it comes with HoT.
If you already have the game, you are losing out if you just go with an upgrade.
If you get it as a separate account, you get 4 character slots + HoT.
If you get it as an upgrade, you get HoT, nothing else.

Just a week ago, GW2 was $40.

Everyone who just purchased GW2 for $40 will now have to buy it AGAIN for $50.
Anyone who’s just now showing up will have to pay the $50 for GW+HoT, that’s fine.

So veterans and intermediates alike got massively ripped off as they are having to pay the equivalent of $90 to get the full package.

This is punishing early adopters and recent buyers of the game, a friend of mine has been trying to get money set aside for weeks to buy GW2 and he finally gets it, and then this happens… If he had known, he would have just waited a few weeks and paid the extra $10 for all of the content.

The base game is a bonus. Would you still be this upset had it not been included and the expansion was still $50 nonetheless like the had planned for it to be?

The only reason to be upset (rather than simply not buy the game) is that new players get far more for the same price. So if it wasn’t included, then no, many people wouldn’t be upset.

The thing is, Heart of Thorns standard is the new base game. You can’t just buy vanilla now.

Two things would have made this all moot:
- If an account is being upgraded, it gets something extra (e.g. character slots).
- The base game can be played with zero purchase of any kind. This would mean that the bundling into the HoT standard means nothing and no one is upset (except people that bought vanilla recently, but that’s a slightly different issue).

RE: I don’t want a new account, just an upgrade

Agreed. I just bought a second account 2 months ago to get ready for HOT.

Kitsune.1902:

The comparison is not relevant in my opinion because the distribution of costs is very different. Without subscription, the game has to nickel and dime the revenue through cash shop for the most part. You can’t really compare the sub fee plus expansions, to the expansions of F2P or B2P games, without taking account the role of the cash shop.

This same reasoning is why I bring them up at all Kind of funny we have differing positions based on the same reasoning hehe
For me, my point is that P2P games have a guaranteed revenue stream (and some even have cash shops in addition to monthly fees), but GW2 does not. That is why I say it is ANet doing something nice for players, as they are literally taking money out of their pockets, as opposed to saying “To play HoT you must pay $40 for the base game + $50 for the expansion.”

I understand where you’re coming from now, though.

So I was checking internet with " HoT pre-purchase reaction" and found this… xD I must say that it is perfect since HoT gives almost nothing…

TJgalon.5012:

It been said mufti times, though I do not have a sorce handy atm, that Anet is upgrading player, or something who recently bought the game to come with Hot, now I do not know how long back, but at least they are doing that and that good.

But they aren’t. They may have said they would, but all they’re doing is honoring their standard 30 day refund policy. If you bought the game within 30 days they will refund your money so you can purchase the new version, but you lose all progress because you’re buying a new account.

Palindrome.8904:

Ayrilana.1396:

Weylin.6478:

If you buy GW2 now, it comes with HoT.
If you already have the game, you are losing out if you just go with an upgrade.
If you get it as a separate account, you get 4 character slots + HoT.
If you get it as an upgrade, you get HoT, nothing else.

Just a week ago, GW2 was $40.

Everyone who just purchased GW2 for $40 will now have to buy it AGAIN for $50.
Anyone who’s just now showing up will have to pay the $50 for GW+HoT, that’s fine.

So veterans and intermediates alike got massively ripped off as they are having to pay the equivalent of $90 to get the full package.

This is punishing early adopters and recent buyers of the game, a friend of mine has been trying to get money set aside for weeks to buy GW2 and he finally gets it, and then this happens… If he had known, he would have just waited a few weeks and paid the extra $10 for all of the content.

The base game is a bonus. Would you still be this upset had it not been included and the expansion was still $50 nonetheless like the had planned for it to be?

The only reason to be upset (rather than simply not buy the game) is that new players get far more for the same price. So if it wasn’t included, then no, many people wouldn’t be upset.

The thing is, Heart of Thorns standard is the new base game. You can’t just buy vanilla now.

Two things would have made this all moot:
- If an account is being upgraded, it gets something extra (e.g. character slots).
- The base game can be played with zero purchase of any kind. This would mean that the bundling into the HoT standard means nothing and no one is upset (except people that bought vanilla recently, but that’s a slightly different issue).

So let’s say you have a PS4/Xbox game that’s been out for awhile. You paid $60 for it originally. They later release a GOTY edition which has the base game and all of the expansion for $60. Would you be upset? Would you think that you got ripped off?

Adding promotions for new accounts is nothing new. This situation appears just like the arguments people had awhile back regarding the different editions of this game that became standard and how “veteran” players deserved those items that were included with the newer editions and not the ones that they bought at release.

This is a slap in the face for comunity.

Ayrilana.1396:

Palindrome.8904:

Ayrilana.1396:

Weylin.6478:

If you buy GW2 now, it comes with HoT.
If you already have the game, you are losing out if you just go with an upgrade.
If you get it as a separate account, you get 4 character slots + HoT.
If you get it as an upgrade, you get HoT, nothing else.

Just a week ago, GW2 was $40.

Everyone who just purchased GW2 for $40 will now have to buy it AGAIN for $50.
Anyone who’s just now showing up will have to pay the $50 for GW+HoT, that’s fine.

So veterans and intermediates alike got massively ripped off as they are having to pay the equivalent of $90 to get the full package.

This is punishing early adopters and recent buyers of the game, a friend of mine has been trying to get money set aside for weeks to buy GW2 and he finally gets it, and then this happens… If he had known, he would have just waited a few weeks and paid the extra $10 for all of the content.

The base game is a bonus. Would you still be this upset had it not been included and the expansion was still $50 nonetheless like the had planned for it to be?

The only reason to be upset (rather than simply not buy the game) is that new players get far more for the same price. So if it wasn’t included, then no, many people wouldn’t be upset.

The thing is, Heart of Thorns standard is the new base game. You can’t just buy vanilla now.

Two things would have made this all moot:
- If an account is being upgraded, it gets something extra (e.g. character slots).
- The base game can be played with zero purchase of any kind. This would mean that the bundling into the HoT standard means nothing and no one is upset (except people that bought vanilla recently, but that’s a slightly different issue).

So let’s say you have a PS4/Xbox game that’s been out for awhile. You paid $60 for it originally. They later release a GOTY edition which has the base game and all of the expansion for $60. Would you be upset? Would you think that you got ripped off?

Adding promotions for new accounts is nothing new. This situation appears just like the arguments people had awhile back regarding the different editions of this game that became standard and how “veteran” players deserved those items that were included with the newer editions and not the ones that they bought at release.

If the GOTY edition was the only way to play any of the DLC? Sure I’d be upset. However, games release DLC separate from GOTY editions that continue to be available after said editions are released.

Kasteros.9847:

So I was checking internet with " HoT pre-purchase reaction" and found this… xD I must say that it is perfect since HoT gives almost nothing…

They have not released all their information yet. The picture is nothing more than speculation.

Before the Red Mist starts to fade and everyone starts to feel something will be done ( because it has to right? The Community Dev’s said it would?) I want to issue a sanity warning…

Similar things were said on the Traits thread – Ascended vertical tread mill thread – NPE thread.

That doesn’t mean it WONT happen but manage your expectations…

Some points:

1. The wording of the feedback is important, there was no promise that something would be DONE, only that responses were being looked at and passed on.
2. If the base game REALLY is now free and not an item that has actually inflated the final cost of the Thons bundle – then why cant Vets access it? or go to a link on the official website where the ‘free game’ now sits? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buy_one,_get_one_free
3. Like all the best Media PR bad news is buried under the bigger bad news – the pre purchase upset has left issues like the increase in Ascended from 5% to 10% from Exotic in the dust. A 10% gap may be enough to make a lot of people feel pushed into a gear treadmill that I remember being told would not happen with Ascended…so read up on all the recent info dumps and bring up issues so they don’t get lost.

Go watch MagicalMike for a good balanced view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B1LhVBNFyE&feature=share

Wooden Potatoes though he has got flack I feel at least still understood Vet anger, Bog Otter? Couldn’t get through more than 6 minutes, someone who maintains that this is merely a ‘perception’ problem by us the Vets before he even starts a proper analysis? not for the faint hearted….

Selene.9415:

But they aren’t. They may have said they would, but all they’re doing is honoring their standard 30 day refund policy. If you bought the game within 30 days they will refund your money so you can purchase the new version, but you lose all progress because you’re buying a new account.

Losing a month of play is hard to take.
90 hours in my case

Asmodal.6489:

Now we look at an expansion that will feature as far as we no:

*know

Asmodal.6489:

- a new class with 60+ skills
- Specialisation mechanic (to be increased in the future)
- 9 new specialisation with 11 new skills each (99)
- 9 new traitlines with 12 traits each (108)
- New weapon and armor skins for each specialisation

- a map that is designed to hold the content of 3
- 7 new Masteries with several new abilities (flying being one of them)
- Precursor crafting
- guild halls concept
- 2 guild hall maps (probably to be increased in the future)
- 2 new crafting professions
- new guild armor and weapons
- GvG Arena including a leaderboard
- Dueling
- Housing + Customisation
- Guild Action perks for WvWvW

Asmodal.6489:

- Complete overhaul of the influence system catering to smaller and bigger guilds alike

Which is free

Asmodal.6489:

- (challenging group content)

I’ll believe it when I see it. They haven’t shown anything about this to support their claim.

Asmodal.6489:

- new PVP mode stronghold

Asmodal.6489:

- new WvWvW area complete overhaul of the mechanics

Which is free

Asmodal.6489:

- new siege equipment

Asmodal.6489:

On the way to this expansion they are overhauling the complete core specialisations system including
yes this should be considered as part of HoT since it sets up the future direction and woul have been obsolete if there was no HoT

No that’s not part of HoT in the slightest. The new system is 100% free; the new specializations are HoT.

Asmodal.6489:

And what people are crying for is basically :

- I want 6 more maps
- I want 6 dungeons
- I want a free character slot

God forbid people ask for content worth their $50. Dear lord. Most of that list is just features, not content, and what content there is does not seem to be all that large/expensive, especially compared to something like FFXIV, which gives you more content for less.

I don’t get the Veteran entitlement position.

If I might suggest the nuclear option? Release the Tengu. Though an extra character slot would be nice, I’ll probably buy the expac anyway. I’ve gotten far more entertainment out of this game and its predecessors over the years than from other games out there.

Jaetara.4075:

There are some suggestions for making the HoT prices look better and more fair:

STANDARD EDITION
- HoT
- Character Slot
- Total Make Over Kit

DELUXE EDITION
- HoT
- Character Slot
- Total Make Over Kit
- 1 Black Lion Ticket
- Bang Expansion Tab or Bag Expansion
- Miniature Revenant Rytlock
- Mordremoth’s Bane Guild Hall Decoration
- Heart of Thorns Glider Skin

ULTIMATE EDITION
- HoT
- Character Slot
- Total Make Over Kit
- 1 Black Lion Ticket
- Bang Expansion Tab or Bag Expansion
- Miniature Revenant Rytlock
- Mordremoth’s Bane Guild Hall Decoration
- Heart of Thorns Glider Skin
- 4000 GEMS

PRE-PURCHASE BONUSES (for any Edition)
- Access to the Beta
- Special Title
- Booster Multi pack
- Heart of Thorns Head Gear Skin ( a Thorny Halo or a Thorny Circlet)

Those are just a few small editions, some of them useful, some of them unique, changes that can make people feel that their money have a better value.

Hmm.. Maybe.. I highly doubt they’d give a bag expansion. & the Heart of Thorns Head Gear Skin sounds dumb. But they should be adding the character slots, BL Tickets & something else. Maybe they should just add gems. 1000/2000/5000.

In the end what they add/how they add it or how they lower the price is not the point. The point is:
the expansion is too expensive as is. They need to make it worth the cost or lower the price. & from what I’ve seen most people find it about $10 too expensive.

1. I will NOT compare this expansion with other games I do not play. They are not equivalent comparisons and they simply do not mean anything to me.
2. Again, don’t care what other companies do in terms of expansion reveals or marketing, my decision to NOT pre-purchase HoT is based only on what I have seen and know about for GW2.
3. The fact that my purchasing decisions “bother” the OP in no way concerns me.

Just a note, I am not saying I will never purchase HoT, I’m just not going to plunk down $50 for what I have seen revealed so far. I also find the “giving away base GW2 for free” to new players simply a marketing ploy to justify the $50 expansion price….very disappointing.