I feel like quitting the game due to Ascended Gear
The thing about fps like quake 3 there is a skill grind to it. Most ppl do not pick up fps and get good at them right then and even though a great deal of time players do not get good until they go all into these fps.
You do not seem to understand what makes games fun its about working to something for a feeling of achievement it IS a type of work or job that you put on your self that why hobbles are too.
Skill grind, lmao. A grind doesn’t mean it takes a long time, it’s that it’s an uncreative and unimaginative task that’s repeated and isn’t particularly hard. Aka killing mobs for t6. If the higher level dungeons dropped way more t6 I might agree with you. But I’m killing 40 dredge at once for 1 t6 item and it’s stupid. This is like calling reading a novel a grind. It’s not and it’s a use of the term that ignores the entire connotation of the word.
Quake 3 matches are dynamic and strategies change depending on the players and their preferences, killing mobs over and over is literally the same thing repeated for hours on end. That’s why multiplayer fps is so much more fun than single player. People allow for a more dynamic variety of events.
I don’t understand what makes games fun? You have no idea what you’re talking about because that’s a personal preference. Also, Mario is fun and there’s no grind at all. The only place people say a grind is necessary for fun is in MMOs and I don’t understand how they can do it with a straight face. Almost every other genre of game has no grind, and if they have progression mechanics they generally take a week or two to max out.
A very important point is the fact that there going to be more added to the game for upgrades so every thing your doing now is just a simple time filler to give them time to add in more things to the game with out it being pushed over the top. Sory to be the one to tell you but most mmorpg need time to become something very unending fun even GW2 has ALOT of things to do in the game some may say too much and there more to come but its a TIME thing. 3 months is nothing and there nothing to say that you cant play other mmorpg at the same time your playing GW2 THAT is the idea behind GW2 its something you can pick up and put down when you want to this is where mmo are all going.
You can’t put this down, you’ll be left behind so quick. Imagine trying to catch up on fotm….
First yes there is a skill grind you just like it more then farming grind that part of life and each person has different likes. Your even calling it a grind the game your chosen yes you may be able to jump in but once you hit a point in these games you must go beyond being able to aim well there is info you must work out or read up on taking a GAME and putting WORK into it.
As for being “left behind so quick” as you put it your an out right fool if you think a back item and 2 rings are going to put you that much of a disadvantages. If any thing your more like to “left behind so quick” because of trying to get your old skill back at timing rolls and getting new info on the game it self.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
20-50% higher stats. Yes, we must get them now or get curb stomped in WvWvW. Secondly they are introducing many more items. This is only the beginning.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
20-50% higher stats. Yes, we must get them now or get curb stomped in WvWvW. Secondly they are introducing many more items. This is only the beginning.
And that’s exactly why I quit if I’m forced to run FotM to keep up.
Let me buy them with karma, like I could with other gear, and I have no issue with it.
Let me be able to earn it via WvW, like I could with other gear, and it fits the game.
Forcing me into one dungeon to keep on par was – as ANet admitted – a mistake. So fix it already. It does not take long time to put the gear on a merchant for karma. Heck – an intern could do that within a day.
This is only the beginning.
Yes, that’s the big concern. It comes down to whether the ‘other means’ by which we’ll be able to acquire ascended gear in the future are as painful as it currently is. Since it’s supposed to fill the gap between exotic and legendary, we can expect these ‘other means’ to take a long time (and/or a lot of resources) too.
And when they raise the level cap … we’ll have to do it all over again.
Guild Wars 1 was never officially called an MMO by Arenanet. The fans called it that. Technically it was a Massively Multiplayer Instanced RPG.
Technically, you just made that name up. It is a Massively Multiplayer Online RPG. It may surprise you but GW1 really was online. Now it didn’t have a persistent world as MMOs tend to have and that is the main difference between GW1 and other MMOs as far as the genre is concerned. On the other hand you could argue, as you see now in GW2 as well, that this persistent world is slapped down and then ignored. Empty zones because everybody’s in a dungeons. So in that respect, GW1 actually was more realistic in its set up.
I hate to harp on the small things but GW1 and GW2 are two very different games.
No you don’t hate to harp on small things and the fact that GW1 and GW2 are very different things isn’t even a small thing. In fact they are so different a lot of people question the name of GW2. For all intents and purposes GW2 isn’t really a sequel at all as the name would indicate.
Similar in many ways yes, but times have changed since 2005. The same rules no longer apply.
I disagree. GW2 is nothing like GW1. Some history and some names have remained but a mesmer in GW2 is nothing like a mesmer in GW1, for example. So the name is there but it’s a completely different class.
The reality is that GW2 is a completely different game and the company used the GW history because it’s easier not to have to create a new world but just build upon the existing lore. I think it would’ve been more correct if this game wouldn’t have been called GW2 but something like Tyria Online. Because I do agree that GW2 is completely different from GW1.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
people quitting the game over ascended gear is AMAZING to me. Yea, they said they didnt want to make the game a grind like WoW, but when people complain that there isnt enough content in a game… thats “free”… and they try to do something about it people still complain. Its a lose lose for Anet. Stop complaining. I completely understand your exotic gear isnt top tier anymore but you know what? congrats, we have more content to work with. IF you truly love the game youll understand its required to make the game live, just stop being a baby about it
Its a lose lose for Anet.
And that’s pretty much all ArenaNet’s doing. The promised something. They sold us something else.
People are upset and disappointed. Especially the longtime Guild Wars fans. People who don’t understand this never played Guild Wars. We’re not the usual MMO whiner crowd who’d kitten if you gave us 50 bucks. We’re crushed that they just up and sold out the principles that made Guild Wars so amazing, and Guild Wars 2 so promising.
But don’t worry. You may have noticed that there are fewer and fewer of the old Guild Wars community here. We’ve pretty much had our say. We tried. We’re leaving. We’ll be gone completely soon. Then you can sift through the rubble of Tyria in peace.
people quitting the game over ascended gear is AMAZING to me. Yea, they said they didnt want to make the game a grind like WoW, but when people complain that there isnt enough content in a game… thats “free”… and they try to do something about it people still complain. Its a lose lose for Anet. Stop complaining. I completely understand your exotic gear isnt top tier anymore but you know what? congrats, we have more content to work with. IF you truly love the game youll understand its required to make the game live, just stop being a baby about it
You know what? It requires a special mindset to consider a +5 to stats “content”!
Don’t worry though. That special mindset will eventually be the majority once the rest of us leave.
I really hope that Anet’s metrics look a lot different than what can be found on other gametracking sites.
One stupid mistake should not hurt a great game as much as this and I am one of those in a holding pattern waiting for Anet to fix that horrible mistake!
Guild Wars 1 was never officially called an MMO by Arenanet. The fans called it that. Technically it was a Massively Multiplayer Instanced RPG.
Technically, you just made that name up. It is a Massively Multiplayer Online RPG. It may surprise you but GW1 really was online. Now it didn’t have a persistent world as MMOs tend to have and that is the main difference between GW1 and other MMOs as far as the genre is concerned. On the other hand you could argue, as you see now in GW2 as well, that this persistent world is slapped down and then ignored. Empty zones because everybody’s in a dungeons. So in that respect, GW1 actually was more realistic in its set up.
I hate to harp on the small things but GW1 and GW2 are two very different games.
No you don’t hate to harp on small things and the fact that GW1 and GW2 are very different things isn’t even a small thing. In fact they are so different a lot of people question the name of GW2. For all intents and purposes GW2 isn’t really a sequel at all as the name would indicate.
Similar in many ways yes, but times have changed since 2005. The same rules no longer apply.
I disagree. GW2 is nothing like GW1. Some history and some names have remained but a mesmer in GW2 is nothing like a mesmer in GW1, for example. So the name is there but it’s a completely different class.
The reality is that GW2 is a completely different game and the company used the GW history because it’s easier not to have to create a new world but just build upon the existing lore. I think it would’ve been more correct if this game wouldn’t have been called GW2 but something like Tyria Online. Because I do agree that GW2 is completely different from GW1.
A Massively Multiplayer Instanced Online RPG
Sound better? -_-
The online part is a given so I dont need you reminding me that it was. And yes, I did make that name up but its accurate is it not? So dont get on me about that either, especially when all you did was change a word.
When I was referring to the small things, I meant more specifically the aforementioned classification of GW1 in relation to GW2, not so much the actual gameplay differences. But since were here…..
Was GW1 online?
Yes
But was it truly massively multiplayer?
That depends. Do 4 other people out in your own little version of the world count as “massive?”
Errr…..no.
But if you consider the pool of players from which to choose your team, then the game is very massive. Bit of a gray area in the classification.
Your response is mostly subjective opinion so in a discussion between us concerning the facts, it doesnt hold up much.
At any rate, GW1 really wasn’t an MMO. No matter how you want to slice it. It naturally was going to have a pretty laid back grind/progression due to its small scale (1-4 people occupying a world at any given time).
GW2 IS an MMO so naturally things are going to be different due to its persistant world and decidely larger scale.
I wont go into why this is because im not a developer but I will say this:
To treay GW1 as the ultimate guide for how GW2 should operate is folly. It is also naive to expect as much for two general reasons:
1. The ever changing market and the 7 year gap in which those changes took place.
2. The aforementioned fact that GW2 is a true MMO that must appeal to and does reach a much broader market than GW1 ever did.
This is why your original answer of Guild Wars to the posed question of what mmo has less grind than GW2 is…..well…..wrong.
A Massively Multiplayer Instanced Online RPG
Sound better? -_-
…
And yes, I did make that name up
Does the definition of MMORPG include “must have persistent world?” Or just your personal definition?
(1-4 people occupying a world at any given time).
Beginning to think you never played Gw1.
To treay GW1 as the ultimate guide for how GW2 should operate is folly.
Yes, you’re right. In retrospect it WAS the height of folly for the GW1 players to think GW2 would even have a passing resemblance to GW1.
Like has been said, ANet counted on us, its loyal and longtime consumers, to kick off GW2. Otherwise it would be pointless to call it GW2.
This is why your original answer of Guild Wars to the posed question of what mmo has less grind than GW2 is…..well…..wrong.
Until this VP discussion came up I had NEVER heard of GW1 described as anything but an MMO. It’s only now, conveniently, that suddenly the arbitrary distinction is being made.
I see the pro-gear grind crowd continues to harp on ascended gear stats and how negligible they may be not fully understanding that the stats in and of themselves is not the issue. The issue is that for years Anet sold GW2 to be a game of horizontal progression. For years we, the anti-grind crowd, followed the game because we loved the idea of a game with horizontal progression. We loved the idea that we finally had a game developer that thought like us and placed importance on creating a game with intelligent design. Not this mind-numbing farce of a game mechanic that simply keeps players on a treadmill with the goal of getting gear with a +1 only to fight monsters with +1 HP.
There are so many other ways that a developer can introduce progression without having to resort to this, the most basic and simplistic of game progression ever created. After all, they don’t call it a “gear-treadmill” for nothing. I have no doubt in my mind that you can train monkeys to succeed in a gear-treadmill game. All it is, is mindless repetition. What is amazing to me is that some of you dare call this skillfull game play, and you dare call those who refuse to “work to play” lazy and uncompetitive. Nothing could be further from the truth. We just demand more from a game than a mindless gear grind.
So let’s keep the focus where it belongs. It is not the stats, or how minimalistic they may be, that is at issue with the non-gear grind crowd. It is the fact that they introduced a gear grind at all. The fact that they simply did a 180 on their oft stated “no gear grind” manifesto, then tried to smooth talk us and convince us that “we were wrong” in our interpretation, coupled with their draconian and heaving handed issuance of infractions, bans, and deletions of our threads and posts when we attempted to express ourselves in the aftermath. These points alone are enough to quit this game. Some of us do have principles.
Those of you who don’t get this are the same people who were complaining that this game had no gear grind. The brainwashed WOW masses that can not think out of the box and believe that they are rendered useless, or that it is not possible for there to be any progression at all in an MMO, unless they are placed on some type of gear treadmill chasing the holy +1 number. You don’t get it. So stop trying to convince those of us who do get it, to simply go with the flow and join you in your gear grind hamster treadmill.
It won’t happen.
We are not hamsters!
(edited by Curlybaby.6258)
do you know why Ascended gear isn’t working for the community?
Most people want BiS and after they get that they can fool around and do whatever they like in the game, which is fun. When exotic was the final tier and exotics are very easy to get, after people got exotics you could go into the world and help out anyone you like and not think about the rewards that come.
Now because you need 250 T6 mats that are expensive as all hell because they are rare, and there isn’t a good supply of them, you can’t farm them by yourself so you have to farm gold. Why would a player that needs the best gear stop by and help someone else when it’s a waste of time. That 1 minute of saving someone he could’ve spent on getting a few silvers.
From working together the mood in the game is now “me me me”, which doesn’t make GW2 any different than any other MMO out there. And other MMOs do the ME ME ME part way better and more rewarding tyvm.
The fastest mount in Rift is 1000 platinum, which i thought was an impossible task to gather that much money. I got it in a week simply by playing the game and vendoring items. Would i be able to earn 1000 gold in gw2 by simply exploring and doing dynamic events? Yeah, in about 5 years.
In GW2 there needs to be a balance between time invested into doing something and rewards. Currently you can spend an hour in the game and manage to buy 5 T6 materials, or 2-3 ectos. You need 250 of those for ONE thing out of a whole set. I’m sorry but that’s grindy.
Long term goal? Sure. Make it a two weeks to a month, not a year for me to get an item with a cheap particle effect. I don’t really see how working on something for two weeks counts as “entitled people wanting everything RIGHT NOW”.
Just because someone can spend 16 hours a day in a game doesn’t mean i have to suffer for it if i want to spend 2 hours a day. Rewards too easy to get for him? Boohoo, YOU should go and play another game.
(edited by taomang.2183)
A Massively Multiplayer Instanced Online RPG
Sound better? -_-
…
And yes, I did make that name upDoes the definition of MMORPG include “must have persistent world?” Or just your personal definition?
(1-4 people occupying a world at any given time).
Beginning to think you never played Gw1.
To treay GW1 as the ultimate guide for how GW2 should operate is folly.
Yes, you’re right. In retrospect it WAS the height of folly for the GW1 players to think GW2 would even have a passing resemblance to GW1.
Like has been said, ANet counted on us, its loyal and longtime consumers, to kick off GW2. Otherwise it would be pointless to call it GW2.
This is why your original answer of Guild Wars to the posed question of what mmo has less grind than GW2 is…..well…..wrong.
Until this VP discussion came up I had NEVER heard of GW1 described as anything but an MMO. It’s only now, conveniently, that suddenly the arbitrary distinction is being made.
Im not sure you yourself know what youre talking about.
1. GW1 was never ever officially designated an MMO by Anet. The fans called it that. This is not a conveniance per the discussion. This is fact. Just because the fans misgidedly refer to it as an MMO, does not make it so. Im sorry youre misinformed.
2. No, an MMO does not need a persistant world in order to be considered an MMO. But MMOs, maybe all of them, have one. Soooo do that math.
3. Im pretty sure that when you leave a city, town or outpost in GW1 its just you and the four other henches or players in your own INSTANCED version of that world or dungeon. You wont see anyone else. (Yes your party size increases to about double later on but im citing general facts. At any rate your group is still on their own).
So yeah, Massively Multiplayer Instanced Online RPG still sounds about right.
I can’t work out what the technical definition of GW1 has to do with this discussion.
I can’t work out what the technical definition of GW1 has to do with this discussion.
It doesnt. Lol
I’m not sure you yourself know what youre talking about.
1. GW1 was never ever officially designated an MMO by Anet. The fans called it that. This is not a conveniance per the discussion. This is fact. Just because the fans misgidedly refer to it as an MMO, does not make it so. Im sorry youre misinformed.
2. No, an MMO does not need a persistant world in order to be considered an MMO. But MMOs, maybe all of them, have one. Soooo do that math.
3. Im pretty sure that when you leave a city, town or outpost in GW1 its just you and the four other henches or players in your own INSTANCED version of that world or dungeon. You wont see anyone else. (Yes your party size increases to about double later on but im citing general facts. At any rate your group is still on their own).
So yeah, Massively Multiplayer Instanced Online RPG still sounds about right.
Why don’t you think I know what I’m talking about? Please be specific.
1-2. Don’t you get it? The GW1 FANS are actually who counts in this discussion. The fans are the people we’re talking about, vis a vis their expectations of this game. Some ad hoc definition of “MMO” put together after the fact does not have any bearing on their experience, or their disappointment (sometimes) in GW2.
3. Yes you are right, you do have your own copy of the world when you leave. But the fact you stopped at 4 instead of 8, 12, 16 or 24, only serves to tell me that you do not fall under the category of #1, which was someone who actually did have expectations from GW1 to GW2.
By the way, GW2 is a good game, I am not trying to talk anyone out of liking it. I am also not saying that you don’t have the right to love and adore GW2. I do not think it should have been named GW2 though, since nothing at all of the gameplay, the philosophy, or the spirit has carried over.
So yeah, Massively Multiplayer Instanced Online RPG still sounds about right.
You could also just stick with Anet’s original label: CORPG for Cooporative Online RPG. (They changed it later to just “online roleplaying game”.)
It is not like “MMORPG” is some seal of quality, or represents a higher level of evolution within games. Quite the opposite – Most MMO’s are more miss than hit!
Looking back at my own 3 best PC-games of all time none of them were MMO’s.
I can see where this “real” MMO is headed when 80% of the population is repeatedly grinding the same instance instead of adventuring in the persistant world.
That is when this game turns into yet another “MMORPG”, geargrind, gated content and all.
Some of us had hoped for just 1 game actually doing something different.
20-50% higher stats. Yes, we must get them now or get curb stomped in WvWvW. Secondly they are introducing many more items. This is only the beginning.
would like to know where you got those numbers. i have yet to see any official posts of any kind supporting those percentages.
I see the pro-gear grind crowd continues to harp on ascended gear stats and how negligible they may be not fully understanding that the stats in and of themselves is not the issue. The issue is that for years Anet sold GW2 to be a game of horizontal progression. For years we, the anti-grind crowd, followed the game because we loved the idea of a game with horizontal progression. We loved the idea that we finally had a game developer that thought like us and placed importance on creating a game with intelligent design. Not this mind-numbing farce of a game mechanic that simply keeps players on a treadmill with the goal of getting gear with a +1 only to fight monsters with +1 HP.
There are so many other ways that a developer can introduce progression without having to resort to this, the most basic and simplistic of game progression ever created. After all, they don’t call it a “gear-treadmill” for nothing. I have no doubt in my mind that you can train monkeys to succeed in a gear-treadmill game. All it is, is mindless repetition. What is amazing to me is that some of you dare call this skillfull game play, and you dare call those who refuse to “work to play” lazy and uncompetitive. Nothing could be further from the truth. We just demand more from a game than a mindless gear grind.
So let’s keep the focus where it belongs. It is not the stats, or how minimalistic they may be, that is at issue with the non-gear grind crowd. It is the fact that they introduced a gear grind at all. The fact that they simply did a 180 on their oft stated “no gear grind” manifesto, then tried to smooth talk us and convince us that “we were wrong” in our interpretation, coupled with their draconian and heaving handed issuance of infractions, bans, and deletions of our threads and posts when we attempted to express ourselves in the aftermath. These points alone are enough to quit this game. Some of us do have principles.
Those of you who don’t get this are the same people who were complaining that this game had no gear grind. The brainwashed WOW masses that can not think out of the box and believe that they are rendered useless, or that it is not possible for there to be any progression at all in an MMO, unless they are placed on some type of gear treadmill chasing the holy +1 number. You don’t get it. So stop trying to convince those of us who do get it, to simply go with the flow and join you in your gear grind hamster treadmill.
It won’t happen.
the problem is what do you consider grind? i’ve seen the word thrown about too many times with differing opinions on what it means. everyone has their own threshold. some people are completely happy to sink in 100 hours to get an item. some are completely happy to sink in 10,000 hours to get an item. some want it in 10 minutes.
gw2 was touted as a grind free game. and it launched with gear tiers with exponential price increase the higher tier, and the higher stats they got.
yet not many people viewed it as a grind because for most, exotic gear was relatively easy to get. they had not hit their ‘grind threshold’ yet.
but for the guy who wants his item in 10 minutes, would getting a full set of exotic gear be considered a grind? yes. would it be considered a grind for the guy who is willing to spend 10,000 hours to get it? no.
this argument has no end. it will keep going in circles, which is why it is degenerating into snide name calling and thinly veiled insults. and frankly, both sides are equally hypocritical about the whole thing.
we, as a community, can keep ping-ponging our opinions around. but it doesn’t do anything. we’re all shooting darts at a dart board in the dark and insisting that we hit the bullseye and the other person missed.
but none of us would know any better would we?
we should save all this vitriol and heated discussion for when Anet actually rolls out the entire ascended gear tier. only then, can we seriously discuss the effect it will have on pvp or pve or whatever.
this entire drama reminds me of an old story about blind men touching an elephant to know what it is. one of them touched the trunk and came to the conclusion that elephants looked like snakes. another touched the leg and came to the conclusion that elephants were like a pillar.
we need to stop being blind men feeling up elephant parts.
“we should save all this vitriol and heated discussion for when Anet actually rolls out the entire ascended gear tier. only then, can we seriously discuss the effect it will have on pvp or pve or whatever.”
Feel free to do whatever you wish. However, don’t ever include “we” in your discussion when it comes to my money, and decision making it what is or is not a gear grind. I can think for myself thank you very much, and I prefer not to live in the land of grey.
From my perspective, the Ascend gear grind was just another brick in the wall and I will never give them another dime for it, that is their reward.
Bad pvp, bad WVW, no ladder system for tpvp, no seperation of premades/pugs, class bugs beyond belief, world bugs, exploits, hacks, bots, and now horrid economy and markedly nerfed drop rates since I quit. Check back on the boards now and then and see this game going in a direction I’m not interested in supporting.
“We”, err excuse me, I will not support this with one dime.
20-50% higher stats. Yes, we must get them now or get curb stomped in WvWvW. Secondly they are introducing many more items. This is only the beginning.
would like to know where you got those numbers. i have yet to see any official posts of any kind supporting those percentages.
easy. simply compare the items side by side. include the added stats you get from the infusion (most people thing that infusion only helps with agony resist). add up the stats and divide ascended by the base. voila. this excludes the better synergies with ascended pieces too.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
“we should save all this vitriol and heated discussion for when Anet actually rolls out the entire ascended gear tier. only then, can we seriously discuss the effect it will have on pvp or pve or whatever.”
Feel free to do whatever you wish. However, don’t ever include “we” in your discussion when it comes to my money, and decision making it what is or is not a gear grind. I can think for myself thank you very much, and I prefer not to live in the land of grey.
From my perspective, the Ascend gear grind was just another brick in the wall and I will never give them another dime for it, that is their reward.
Bad pvp, bad WVW, no ladder system for tpvp, no seperation of premades/pugs, class bugs beyond belief, world bugs, exploits, hacks, bots, and now horrid economy and markedly nerfed drop rates since I quit. Check back on the boards now and then and see this game going in a direction I’m not interested in supporting.
“We”, err excuse me, I will not support this with one dime.
this is exactly what i was talking about.
that is a caricature of exactly what we don’t need: unconstructive ranting with threats of ‘quitting the game’ and ‘not spending another dime’ unless things are done my way, and only my way.
thanks for the post! it is a great example of what we as a community do not need.
however, if you were serious, then err… sorry? you will be missed?
20-50% higher stats. Yes, we must get them now or get curb stomped in WvWvW. Secondly they are introducing many more items. This is only the beginning.
would like to know where you got those numbers. i have yet to see any official posts of any kind supporting those percentages.
easy. simply compare the items side by side. include the added stats you get from the infusion (most people thing that infusion only helps with agony resist). add up the stats and divide ascended by the base. voila. this excludes the better synergies with ascended pieces too.
The actual math shows it really doesn’t matter. Gear is less than a quarter of the stats that matter for your character. Most comes from traits and levels.
The most common ring you see adds 5 power 5 pre. That’s 1/4 of 1% crit rate and about 1/5 of 1% to your damage.
The improvement only matters if what you’re looking at is stats on items in your paperdoll. It doesn’t matter if you’re looking at in-game performance.
So yeah, Massively Multiplayer Instanced Online RPG still sounds about right.
You could also just stick with Anet’s original label: CORPG for Cooporative Online RPG. (They changed it later to just “online roleplaying game”.)
It is not like “MMORPG” is some seal of quality, or represents a higher level of evolution within games. Quite the opposite – Most MMO’s are more miss than hit!
Looking back at my own 3 best PC-games of all time none of them were MMO’s.
I can see where this “real” MMO is headed when 80% of the population is repeatedly grinding the same instance instead of adventuring in the persistant world.
That is when this game turns into yet another “MMORPG”, geargrind, gated content and all.
Some of us had hoped for just 1 game actually doing something different.
While it was a mistake to only put ascended in the Fractals, i have no sympathy for the player who for whatever reason feels the need to grind it now instead of waiting for the gear to be evenly distributed across other areas of the game.
That is a result of impatience and self induced panic as a result of some misguided feeling of being left behind when the fact is that there’s noone really to get in front of.
As of right now no content is really gated. Sure the RNG surrpunding that ring sucks but once the gear is rolled out in full it wont matter.
Infusions will simply allow for deeper customization. Im sure whatever content that gets released will allow for varying combinations of infusions to be completed, rather than force everyone into one type (why else have the three types we have now?)
The problem here is people just assume way tooo much and freak themselves out.
Prime example:The Gem Store.
Shady prices? Sure
Crappy RNG? You betcha
Anything remotely resembling the B2W character imbalance everyone said it would be?
Yeah…no.
Run with what you know and stop freaking yourself out trying to predict “doom.”
“thanks for the post! it is a great example of what we as a community do not need”
My post is not for general consumption, but rather to the company as feedback to why they lost a customer. Any loss of revenue should be a concern for them. However, I can offer you this. I am directing my posts to the corporation on why the opinion of the person I quoted is not relevant to me as a customer. If you can’t grasp that, its moot and of no consequence.
I can see where this game is going, and its too bad. They have more to be concerned about other than just money, and that is time which they are running out of fast.
This game is a mess, and I hope they can fix it and reverse this silly gear grind. I don’t see it happening though.
I don’t think they will fix existing bugs or the problems preventing them from becoming an e-sport in a timely fashion before they need to release an expansion to compete with Elder Scrolls or Blizzards next MMO.
Its cool, I can wait and refrain from spending anything. This game was not ready for release and the state of pvp is a clear example of it. They do not even have a LFG tool when it comes to Fractals.
Its a shame, so much hype and such a huge let down. I can assure you though, Blizzard is watching, and so is Bethesda.
My post is not for general consumption, but rather to the company as feedback to why they lost a customer.
oh. you were serious. i thought you were joking.
then why quote me in your reply? and if you’re looking to provide the company with feedback, there are better avenues for that compared to burying your post in a 6 page long debate about ascended gear and its effects on pve and pvp.
I don’t think they will fix existing bugs or the problems preventing them from becoming an e-sport in a timely fashion before they need to release an expansion to compete with Elder Scrolls or Blizzards next MMO.
what gave you the idea that gw2 was going to be an e-sport? for pve, gear skins is what people look for. for wvwvw, numbers mean a lot more than getting bis for everything. for arena, everyone is set to level 80 and has every single piece of gear available to them.
the only vaguely ‘e-sport’ish thing would be arena. where ascended gear and it’s associated grind doesn’t matter at all. so what are you talking about?
unless you’re thinking of stuff like dance-offs or style contests being an e-sport or something.
not to mention bethesda’s elder scrolls series is a single player rpg. gw2 is a mmo. they are both computer games, but they attract different crowds. not to mention, just because you buy a title from a major developer means you cannot purchase titles from any other developer. as a consumer, i can buy the next elder scrolls installment, and the gw2 expansion if i so wish. i’m not shackled to either bethesda or anet.
insinuating that anet and bethesda are competing against each other is like saying ferrari’s new sportscar will cause ford’s new station wagon to drop in sales. they’re both cars, but they fulfil different purposes.
Its cool, I can wait and refrain from spending anything. This game was not ready for release and the state of pvp is a clear example of it. They do not even have a LFG tool when it comes to Fractals.
ya. anet have come to to admit that fractals was a mistake and they should not have put it in considering the game’s current state. it’s old news. a dead horse if you will.
(edited by alcedonia.7831)
20-50% higher stats. Yes, we must get them now or get curb stomped in WvWvW. Secondly they are introducing many more items. This is only the beginning.
would like to know where you got those numbers. i have yet to see any official posts of any kind supporting those percentages.
easy. simply compare the items side by side. include the added stats you get from the infusion (most people thing that infusion only helps with agony resist). add up the stats and divide ascended by the base. voila. this excludes the better synergies with ascended pieces too.
The actual math shows it really doesn’t matter. Gear is less than a quarter of the stats that matter for your character. Most comes from traits and levels.
The most common ring you see adds 5 power 5 pre. That’s 1/4 of 1% crit rate and about 1/5 of 1% to your damage.
The improvement only matters if what you’re looking at is stats on items in your paperdoll. It doesn’t matter if you’re looking at in-game performance.
It depends what you put in the denominator. I exclude base stats, and I am looking at item to item stats. Thus, my point stands. I never said over character stats. I specified item stats. It’s your call on how you wish to represent the facts. I am focused on the items. Whether or not it matters is a purely subjective argument. I think these do matter.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
WvW – light progression of gear = endgame
sPvP – no progression gear
I am satisfied
just wanted to ask.
in wvwvw, how do you tell if your opposing team is rolling with groups of players with full ascended gear? it’s not something you can tell by simply looking at a character.
tbh, it just sounds like a convenient excuse cos someone got roflstomped and had to blame something other than him/herself.
My experience in wvw, gear really doesn’t matter hardly at all. I’ve played fully top-geared 80. I’ve gone with low level, blue-greens. It’s about numbers, it’s about tactics, it’s about siege and upgrades. My staff is some lvl 65 green, but I get more kills with it than my exotics because of range.
I’m sure in some situations it can matter. But in gw2, gear just doesn’t matter anything like it does in other games. Full exotic set is less than a quarter of your stats, anyway.
But the genre, from way back in paper-pencil days, revolves around advancing your character and getting phat lewts. So that idea remains prevalent in GW2 players, regardless of the math behind the system.
And hey, who don’t luv a shiny new bauble? (even if it’s virtual)
I’m sorry, I find it hard to believe you’ve done low levels and undergeared play in WvW and think it doesn’t matter. A low level gets absolutely crushed. You simply won’t win a 1v1 or do near the damage of a lvl 80 in exotics. Individually it might not feel like your gear makes a difference but it does, basically you are forcing your server to pick up your slack. If there was a server of lvl 80’s in exotics vs a server of low levels or in non exotics, the low levels/non-exotics would get absolutely CRUSHED.As for your staff you get more kills because it’s ranged but what if you had an 80 exotic staff, YOU WOULD GET MORE KILLS!
Just because you cannot see the difference does not mean that is isn’t there.
Beyond every server having an equal chance at success, player to player balance was never the point. This was told to us pre-release. This is nothing new.
And two things:
1. How often are you in a 1v1 situation in WvW, really? Cmon now.
2. If youre in full exotics/ascended, lone wolfing it or actively engaging or trying to 1v1 people and get as many kills as possible, then a player in full masterwork trying to take towers and keeps with his guild or a zerg is more useful to the server than you.
Also, a full server in exotics and a full server in low level gear?
Now youre just being unrealistic to make a useless argument.
1. All the time when I WvW, sometimes I 1v2 and when i run with a buddy we 2v2 up to 2v4. Sometimes we end up doing 2v6+ as enemies continue to show up as we kill some.
2. You mistake 1v1 as trying to get as many kills as possible and not being productive, this shows how much you know. A single person can draw a zerg or part of a zerg away long enough for your smaller force to kill enough people to even the odds. I’ve charged solo into the back lines of enemies and distracted them long enough for the main force to arrive and slaughter the enemies as they are concentrated on me. Not only that but you can solo the supply camps/dolyaks and more often than not there is 1-2 people guarding them. Clearly reducing the enemies supply levels is less useful than just sitting in a zerg vs zerg stalemate.
3. I’m not being unrealistic. The point was made that gear/level doesn’t matter in WvW, all that matters is population and numbers. That is not the truth and the extreme in that situation is the example I gave so you can actually see the difference. Under normal circumstances you’re not going to blatantly see the difference, but it will be there. A zerg comprised of exotics/ascended will stomp an equal zerg in rares/masterwork. The rares/masterwork zerg will take less damage and do less damage while the exotics/ascended zerg will do more damage and survive longer. Most of the damage in this game is not linear so with just a few more stats it gets multiplied out to some decent numbers. That is another poor design decision but that’s for another thread.
20-50% higher stats. Yes, we must get them now or get curb stomped in WvWvW. Secondly they are introducing many more items. This is only the beginning.
would like to know where you got those numbers. i have yet to see any official posts of any kind supporting those percentages.
easy. simply compare the items side by side. include the added stats you get from the infusion (most people thing that infusion only helps with agony resist). add up the stats and divide ascended by the base. voila. this excludes the better synergies with ascended pieces too.
The actual math shows it really doesn’t matter. Gear is less than a quarter of the stats that matter for your character. Most comes from traits and levels.
The most common ring you see adds 5 power 5 pre. That’s 1/4 of 1% crit rate and about 1/5 of 1% to your damage.
The improvement only matters if what you’re looking at is stats on items in your paperdoll. It doesn’t matter if you’re looking at in-game performance.
It depends what you put in the denominator. I exclude base stats, and I am looking at item to item stats. Thus, my point stands. I never said over character stats. I specified item stats. It’s your call on how you wish to represent the facts. I am focused on the items. Whether or not it matters is a purely subjective argument. I think these do matter.
do you think the stat increase will be significant enough to allow you to let’s say kill another player with like for example, 9 hits instead of 10? or take 11 hits instead of 10 to die?
i realize this really depends on what class is facing what class, and using what builds, but i’m talking about in general here.
the only place where ascended gear may make a difference is in pvp, namely wvwvw. considering how little gear contributes stat wise compared to traits and levels, ascended gear may have negligible impact there. the numbers will still remain the number 1 deciding factor imo. the server with the bigger zerg will still win. if i have 50 warm bodies to throw at you, and you have 40 people, even if you guys were all in full ascended gear, i will still win.
20-50% higher stats. Yes, we must get them now or get curb stomped in WvWvW. Secondly they are introducing many more items. This is only the beginning.
would like to know where you got those numbers. i have yet to see any official posts of any kind supporting those percentages.
easy. simply compare the items side by side. include the added stats you get from the infusion (most people thing that infusion only helps with agony resist). add up the stats and divide ascended by the base. voila. this excludes the better synergies with ascended pieces too.
The actual math shows it really doesn’t matter. Gear is less than a quarter of the stats that matter for your character. Most comes from traits and levels.
The most common ring you see adds 5 power 5 pre. That’s 1/4 of 1% crit rate and about 1/5 of 1% to your damage.
The improvement only matters if what you’re looking at is stats on items in your paperdoll. It doesn’t matter if you’re looking at in-game performance.
It depends what you put in the denominator. I exclude base stats, and I am looking at item to item stats. Thus, my point stands. I never said over character stats. I specified item stats. It’s your call on how you wish to represent the facts. I am focused on the items. Whether or not it matters is a purely subjective argument. I think these do matter.
Sure that’s fine, cuz you’re into gear-stats progression, like on the paperdoll, whereas I’m talking about in-game playing. And even if I’m just lookin at the paperdoll, what matters to me is the end-numbers, total power, crit rate, etc.
What exactly is horizontal progression? I dont understand this concept, how can a game move forward into new challanges by sidestepping?
What is it you want Anet to add in terms of content? Is it things like the Southsun Cove? The place no one goes because there is nothing to do there that you cant do anywhere else?
Is this what people are really after?
I see the pro-gear grind crowd continues to harp on ascended gear stats and how negligible they may be not fully understanding that the stats in and of themselves is not the issue. The issue is that for years Anet sold GW2 to be a game of horizontal progression. For years we, the anti-grind crowd, followed the game because we loved the idea of a game with horizontal progression. We loved the idea that we finally had a game developer that thought like us and placed importance on creating a game with intelligent design. Not this mind-numbing farce of a game mechanic that simply keeps players on a treadmill with the goal of getting gear with a +1 only to fight monsters with +1 HP.
There are so many other ways that a developer can introduce progression without having to resort to this, the most basic and simplistic of game progression ever created. After all, they don’t call it a “gear-treadmill” for nothing. I have no doubt in my mind that you can train monkeys to succeed in a gear-treadmill game. All it is, is mindless repetition. What is amazing to me is that some of you dare call this skillfull game play, and you dare call those who refuse to “work to play” lazy and uncompetitive. Nothing could be further from the truth. We just demand more from a game than a mindless gear grind.
So let’s keep the focus where it belongs. It is not the stats, or how minimalistic they may be, that is at issue with the non-gear grind crowd. It is the fact that they introduced a gear grind at all. The fact that they simply did a 180 on their oft stated “no gear grind” manifesto, then tried to smooth talk us and convince us that “we were wrong” in our interpretation, coupled with their draconian and heaving handed issuance of infractions, bans, and deletions of our threads and posts when we attempted to express ourselves in the aftermath. These points alone are enough to quit this game. Some of us do have principles.
Those of you who don’t get this are the same people who were complaining that this game had no gear grind. The brainwashed WOW masses that can not think out of the box and believe that they are rendered useless, or that it is not possible for there to be any progression at all in an MMO, unless they are placed on some type of gear treadmill chasing the holy +1 number. You don’t get it. So stop trying to convince those of us who do get it, to simply go with the flow and join you in your gear grind hamster treadmill.
It won’t happen.
Agreed 100%. It just feels like such a letdown. Before the release, I had a sense of accomplishment. Now I know that everything I’ve invested in this game up to this point will diminish. The small stat increase now is not the issue – it’s the establishment of a precedent, and so soon after launch, that let’s me know that there will be a continuing string of letdowns in the future.
Anyways, I’ll still play, but I won’t give ‘em my money anymore… I don’t do business with firms who’ve demonstrated the willingness to abandon their most loyal customer base. I won’t accept “bait-&-switch” as a marketing strategy.
20-50% higher stats. Yes, we must get them now or get curb stomped in WvWvW. Secondly they are introducing many more items. This is only the beginning.
would like to know where you got those numbers. i have yet to see any official posts of any kind supporting those percentages.
easy. simply compare the items side by side. include the added stats you get from the infusion (most people thing that infusion only helps with agony resist). add up the stats and divide ascended by the base. voila. this excludes the better synergies with ascended pieces too.
The actual math shows it really doesn’t matter. Gear is less than a quarter of the stats that matter for your character. Most comes from traits and levels.
The most common ring you see adds 5 power 5 pre. That’s 1/4 of 1% crit rate and about 1/5 of 1% to your damage.
The improvement only matters if what you’re looking at is stats on items in your paperdoll. It doesn’t matter if you’re looking at in-game performance.
It depends what you put in the denominator. I exclude base stats, and I am looking at item to item stats. Thus, my point stands. I never said over character stats. I specified item stats. It’s your call on how you wish to represent the facts. I am focused on the items. Whether or not it matters is a purely subjective argument. I think these do matter.
do you think the stat increase will be significant enough to allow you to let’s say kill another player with like for example, 9 hits instead of 10? or take 11 hits instead of 10 to die?
i realize this really depends on what class is facing what class, and using what builds, but i’m talking about in general here.
the only place where ascended gear may make a difference is in pvp, namely wvwvw. considering how little gear contributes stat wise compared to traits and levels, ascended gear may have negligible impact there. the numbers will still remain the number 1 deciding factor imo. the server with the bigger zerg will still win. if i have 50 warm bodies to throw at you, and you have 40 people, even if you guys were all in full ascended gear, i will still win.
You can assume whatever you want. Not all of us Zerg in WvWvW. How about this? If the stats truly don’t matter as you claim, why not make them equal to exotics? After all, fractals are so much fun and worth the time to do all of them, right?
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
What exactly is horizontal progression? I dont understand this concept, how can a game move forward into new challanges by sidestepping?
What is it you want Anet to add in terms of content? Is it things like the Southsun Cove? The place no one goes because there is nothing to do there that you cant do anywhere else?
Is this what people are really after?
I can’t speak for all of us, I mostly do PVE – so the WvWvW and sPVP folks might have other points. But I suspect most of what we mean by “horizontal progression” as far as PVE goes was captured in the original Guild Wars. Here’s some suggestions for GW2:
- New content releases (without raising the level cap),
- New races and classes to play (after maybe 2 years or so at least),
- New areas of the existing map to open up, with reknown hearts and dynamic events,
- More storyline to explore,
- New aesthetically spectacular gear (with the same stats so my old gear isn’t nerfed),
- More dynamic events, and event chains,
- New dungeons with equivalent rewards so that old dungeons aren’t abandoned,
- More town-clothes options,
- Mini-games,
- Dynamic events in the cities and towns (social missions that any character of any level could complete),
- Special events.
For PVP, I suspect games besides conquest (e.g. capture the flag, escort missions, attack / defend, every-man-for-himself, etc) would be appreciated.
Thing is, this stuff takes work, and we acknowledge that. But I have paid (and I am sure the “horizontal progression” advocates would continue to pay) real, hard currency to finance the development of quality content like this.
Conversely coding a stat-inflated ring or back-slot with no visible skin takes almost no effort whatsoever. I won’t pay for that.
What exactly is horizontal progression? I dont understand this concept, how can a game move forward into new challanges by sidestepping?
What is it you want Anet to add in terms of content? Is it things like the Southsun Cove? The place no one goes because there is nothing to do there that you cant do anywhere else?
Is this what people are really after?
I can’t speak for all of us, I mostly do PVE – so the WvWvW and sPVP folks might have other points. But I suspect most of what we mean by “horizontal progression” as far as PVE goes was captured in the original Guild Wars. Here’s some suggestions for GW2:
- New content releases (without raising the level cap),
- New races and classes to play (after maybe 2 years or so at least),
- New areas of the existing map to open up, with reknown hearts and dynamic events,
- More storyline to explore,
- New aesthetically spectacular gear (with the same stats so my old gear isn’t nerfed),
- More dynamic events, and event chains,
- New dungeons with equivalent rewards so that old dungeons aren’t abandoned,
- More town-clothes options,
- Mini-games,
- Dynamic events in the cities and towns (social missions that any character of any level could complete),
- Special events.
For PVP, I suspect games besides conquest (e.g. capture the flag, escort missions, attack / defend, every-man-for-himself, etc) would be appreciated.
Thing is, this stuff takes work, and we acknowledge that. But I have paid (and I am sure the “horizontal progression” advocates would continue to pay) real, hard currency to finance the development of quality content like this.
Conversely coding a stat-inflated ring or back-slot with no visible skin takes almost no effort whatsoever. I won’t pay for that.
I agree with all this but, and this is a big but, some of the stuff you mentioned currently has serious issues:
There are literally hundreds of events in the game but people only seem to do the most profitable ones. In low lvl zones this is particularly bad as no one is ever there to do them? The events themselves very often unfortunately break down too leading to whole chains being stuck for hours or even days at a time.
Dungeons are great, but getting a group for them has become harder and harder and harder. Sometimes I stand in LA for a good hour trying to get a group for CoE without sucess. People are only likly going to do these new dungeons if the armor/weapon skin is something they want to use.
As for new areas, like I said we have the whole of Southsun Cove and its events, but again no one ever goes there because once they’ve done it there is no reason to go back and do it again.
Keeping things fresh and having something for players to look forward to is they key but unless they release something new every day I feel that horizontal progression will get old very quickly.
One example of this is Legendary weapons, these are even slightly better stat wise than exotics yet very few people are truly after one. I think this is mainly because the skins and effects on them are too poor in comparison to the effort required to make them.
From my perspective, the Ascend gear grind was just another brick in the wall and I will never give them another dime for it, that is their reward.
that got me giggling…
We don’t need no new conditions
We don’t need no new tiers at all
No more sarcasm in the forums
Devs, don’t make a Warcraft clone
Hey! A-Net! Leave those stats alone!
All in all there’s just too much gear in the grind
All in all there’s just too much gear in the grind
We don’t want to grind Ascended
We don’t want to dungeon crawl
No IWin buttons disguised as Endgame
Devs, remember Guild Wars 1?
Hey! A-Net! Leave those stats alone!
All in all there’s just too much gear in the grind
All in all there’s just too much gear in the grind
“Wrong, do it again!”
“Wrong, do it again!”
“If you don’t grind yer gear, you can’t kill any noobies. How can you kill any noobies if you don’t grind your gear?”
“You! Yes, you lagging in Lion’s Arch! Stand still, laddie!”
We’ve pretty much had our say. We tried. We’re leaving. We’ll be gone completely soon. Then you can sift through the rubble of Tyria in peace.
I am a former GW1 player, as is my roomie, and we’re not leaving.
Sure, we’ve got our issues with GW2, but we’d rather stay and voice our opinions so that the devs know players like us are around, want to stick around, and know that we will support the game (they know how much I’ve spent on the cash shop and I am willing to keep doing so if they don’t go overboard with gear progression) if they keep us in mind in their future design decisions.
We’re part of this community and ANet does listen. They do make mistakes, but they’re treading new ground. If they don’t turn their backs on their diehrd fans, I think it’ll be okay.
Ardeth, Sylvari Mesmer
Tarnished Coast
Tarnished Coast
What exactly is horizontal progression? I dont understand this concept, how can a game move forward into new challanges by sidestepping?
What is it you want Anet to add in terms of content? Is it things like the Southsun Cove? The place no one goes because there is nothing to do there that you cant do anywhere else?
Is this what people are really after?
What people are after is content that stands on its own merits and rewards players for skill and co-ordination, as opposed to content that adds arbitrarily higher numbers to your screen in recognition of your repetitive 100 hour grind.
Engineer – Thief – Warrior
What exactly is horizontal progression? I dont understand this concept, how can a game move forward into new challanges by sidestepping?
What is it you want Anet to add in terms of content? Is it things like the Southsun Cove? The place no one goes because there is nothing to do there that you cant do anywhere else?
Is this what people are really after?
What people are after is content that stands on its own merits and rewards players for skill and co-ordination, as opposed to content that adds arbitrarily higher numbers to your screen in recognition of your repetitive 100 hour grind.
Why cant we have both though? I very often do dungeons with players who have recently reached 80 and are still in rare or below gear. A lot of them do fine if they know the dungeon and how the fights work.
‘Gear does not a good player make.’
I never found getting my exotic gear hard or a grind though personally. I enjoyed doing the events and participating especially as while doing them I knew that every one I did earned me karma towards my next piece.
There is a balance I think, that balance comes between the player enjoying what they are doing, feeling like what they are doing will ultimately improve on their character and feeling left behind and rushing to grind out enough cash/karma/whatever to catch up and play with everyone else.
Am very opposed to the whole you must have ‘x resist’ to do something though i must say and the fractal leveling restriction so I completely agree with people there.
(edited by Twitchz.6407)
I admit I’ve taken it too personal, but this is just how I feel about the game at the moment. I want horizontal progression and expanded content, not new stats and gear treadmills. Besides arguing about new gear and such, has anyone actually permanently or temporarily quit the game due to the introduction of Ascended Gear? Whoever has temporarily put the game to rest, how will the next big update change your mind? Are we over-reacting and taking it too personal?
i dont mind grinding on my own accord. I loved working for my ghostly greatsword.
But i don’t like being forced to do something out of stats. Jeff strain promised us it wouldn’t be like this.
Do you guys really think that ArenaNet is going to distribute ascended items in a less grindy way outside of FotM?
What would happen to FotM then? Nobody would ever bother doing it because its boring as kitten, only reason anyone does it now is for gear don’t kid yourselves.
To all the white knights saying just wait it’ll all be ok arenaNet knows what they are doing. Yes kitten straight they know what they are doing and they know that they have already alienated everyone that isn’t a grind addict, they ARE smart enough not to alienate the last group supporting this game.
I have no clue what ascended gear is so I guess I’m good?
We’ve pretty much had our say. We tried. We’re leaving. We’ll be gone completely soon. Then you can sift through the rubble of Tyria in peace.
I am a former GW1 player, as is my roomie, and we’re not leaving.
Sure, we’ve got our issues with GW2, but we’d rather stay and voice our opinions so that the devs know players like us are around, want to stick around, and know that we will support the game (they know how much I’ve spent on the cash shop and I am willing to keep doing so if they don’t go overboard with gear progression) if they keep us in mind in their future design decisions.We’re part of this community and ANet does listen. They do make mistakes, but they’re treading new ground. If they don’t turn their backs on their diehrd fans, I think it’ll be okay.
I agree with you, but I choose not to play in the meantime.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Do you guys really think that ArenaNet is going to distribute ascended items in a less grindy way outside of FotM?
What would happen to FotM then? Nobody would ever bother doing it because its boring as kitten, only reason anyone does it now is for gear don’t kid yourselves.
To all the white knights saying just wait it’ll all be ok arenaNet knows what they are doing. Yes kitten straight they know what they are doing and they know that they have already alienated everyone that isn’t a grind addict, they ARE smart enough not to alienate the last group supporting this game.
If nobody would do it, that speaks volumes. So the logic is, lets forced people,to do boring things because its good for them?
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
What exactly is horizontal progression? I dont understand this concept, how can a game move forward into new challanges by sidestepping?
What is it you want Anet to add in terms of content? Is it things like the Southsun Cove? The place no one goes because there is nothing to do there that you cant do anywhere else?
Is this what people are really after?
What people are after is content that stands on its own merits and rewards players for skill and co-ordination, as opposed to content that adds arbitrarily higher numbers to your screen in recognition of your repetitive 100 hour grind.
Why cant we have both though? I very often do dungeons with players who have recently reached 80 and are still in rare or below gear. A lot of them do fine if they know the dungeon and how the fights work.
‘Gear does not a good player make.’
I never found getting my exotic gear hard or a grind though personally. I enjoyed doing the events and participating especially as while doing them I knew that every one I did earned me karma towards my next piece.
There is a balance I think, that balance comes between the player enjoying what they are doing, feeling like what they are doing will ultimately improve on their character and feeling left behind and rushing to grind out enough cash/karma/whatever to catch up and play with everyone else.
Am very opposed to the whole you must have ‘x resist’ to do something though i must say and the fractal leveling restriction so I completely agree with people there.
We had both before the the Lost Shores update. To kit out your character in WvW with full exotics and runes costs something like 40G which is fair enough. You can get by with full rares while you work towards it doing a variety of activities that don’t feel like grinding.
Now Anet brings in ascended rings which requires much more repetitive grinding just to get one. Taking into account that we now know Anet will raise the level cap and introduce full ascended equipment in the future updates and we have a grind-fest that’s up there with the worst MMO’s.
There is no good reason for ascended items to exist. Are there players out there who were not satisfied with everything GW2 had to offer, but are now actively playing because they can out-grind other players for what will eventually be a sizable advantage in WvW? Maybe, I don’t know. But those players need psychological counselling and should not be catered to.
Engineer – Thief – Warrior
What exactly is horizontal progression? I dont understand this concept, how can a game move forward into new challanges by sidestepping?
What is it you want Anet to add in terms of content? Is it things like the Southsun Cove? The place no one goes because there is nothing to do there that you cant do anywhere else?
Is this what people are really after?
I would imagine HP is expanding the game through content which isn’t already present. FotM is actually a potential HP, but they saddled it with VP as well. That new Rohan expansion I hear about for LotRO would be HP via the new mounted combat (IDK if they have VP there). As I understand it, EVE Online is releasing some sort of groundbased FPS combat which will coordinate in some way with its space combat.
Southsun Cove is not HP or VP. It’s just a lonely and terrible island that was spewed out in order to house the Karka event. I’m somewhat surprised that it’s even still around, but apparently they plan on fleshing it out.
We had both before the the Lost Shores update. To kit out your character in WvW with full exotics and runes costs something like 40G which is fair enough. You can get by with full rares while you work towards it doing a variety of activities that don’t feel like grinding.
Now Anet brings in ascended rings which requires much more repetitive grinding just to get one. Taking into account that we now know Anet will raise the level cap and introduce full ascended equipment in the future updates and we have a grind-fest that’s up there with the worst MMO’s.
There is no good reason for ascended items to exist. Are there players out there who were not satisfied with everything GW2 had to offer, but are now actively playing because they can out-grind other players for what will eventually be a sizable advantage in WvW? Maybe, I don’t know. But those players need psychological counselling and should not be catered to.
Is it a grind if you enjoy doing it though? If fractals were an awesome experience and players loved doing them would people still be so against the items you received for doing them?
What I’m trying to say is its not what you get for doing them that matters, it should be the choice of what you do and if you enjoy doing it.
For example fractals give better gear than exotics, so what? If you don’t like doing fractals why would missing out on the gear affect you?
Simply said, if you don’t enjoy doing something, don’t complain that you have to do it, complain that its rubbish and not enjoyable.
(edited by Twitchz.6407)
Is it a grind if you enjoy doing it though? If fractals were an awesome experience and players loved doing them would people still be so against the items you received for doing them?
I said it above; FotM is horizontal progression. The ascended gear tacked onto it is vertical progression. The response I’ve seen regarding FotM alone is generally positive, outside of the issue with disconnects.
What I’m trying to say is its not what you get for doing them that matters, it should be the choice of what you do and if you enjoy doing it.
How about we flip it and ask, why did they feel a need to give FotM higher tier loot?
What about exotics was insufficient to carry FotM? I have yet to see any sort of explanation as to why exotics were insufficient. I’d really love to read one, but I don’t think it exists.
(edited by Ansultares.1567)