Guild Wars 2

By now that raids were a bad idea unless they do something like blizzard did with there looking for raid thing. Otherwise your creating content only a fraction of the player base will ever see………

And yet those fraction still deserve content. Just because players like you and I aren’t raiding, doesn’t mean others shouldn’t have that chance

Randulf.7614:

And yet those fraction still deserve content.

For all the times I’ve heard this I’ve never heard an actual justification.

I hope players realize…

…By now not everyone likes/hates the same things they do, and having a variety of content in order to appeal to a large audience with varying tastes is a healthy thing for any MMO. Otherwise you’re creating content that appeals to only a fraction of your potential player base.

(see, I can type like that too. :P )

~EW

They can add as many raids as they like. Doesn’t bother me at all. It would be nice though if they’d add something I like some day soon.

im fine with raids, i just don’t want it to affect the release of other content.

Manasa Devi.7958:

They can add as many raids as they like. Doesn’t bother me at all. It would be nice though if they’d add something I like some day soon.

^this. Where is the content for everyone else? There has been nothing new to do since HoT, that was 5 month’s ago. I don’t count a revamp and festivals(which didn’t really add anything new)

Manasa Devi.7958:

They can add as many raids as they like. Doesn’t bother me at all. It would be nice though if they’d add something I like some day soon.

Fishing is coming…

Manasa Devi.7958:

They can add as many raids as they like. Doesn’t bother me at all. It would be nice though if they’d add something I like some day soon.

That’s it in a nutshell. Not a raider. never will be.
I’ll see if they actually fix the things like they mentioned in the AMA.

Raids themselves aren’t bad.

The requirement of ascended gear, that people put on other people, is what causing A LOT of people not being able to take part in it.

Raid is stupid because the TAG and LFG system is broken. hell HOT was launch with the TAG broken and causing players to disconnect. while it is more stable now, alot of the features still need work. that is more important then the raid wing themselves, because every player anet loses, ain’t coming back, first impression counts as much as the amount of content. raid wouldn’t be done by just 1/4 of the population if it didn’t left players confused at the door with a LFG that doesn’t even work.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Manasa Devi.7958:

They can add as many raids as they like. Doesn’t bother me at all. It would be nice though if they’d add something I like some day soon.

^this. Where is the content for everyone else? There has been nothing new to do since HoT, that was 5 month’s ago. I don’t count a revamp and festivals(which didn’t really add anything new)

Every day we add content here, enjoy and make the most of it.

I’m just annoyed at the title ‘raid’.
having never played wow, I would expect a ‘raid’ to be more of wvw zergs sweeping the map.
these raids are more of trials. or gauntlets.

Mystic.5934:

I’m just annoyed at the title ‘raid’.
having never played wow, I would expect a ‘raid’ to be more of wvw zergs sweeping the map.
these raids are more of trials. or gauntlets.

Think of the word “Raid” as in “Raiders of the Lost Ark” and it makes more sense.

Farzo.8410:

Raids themselves aren’t bad.

The requirement of ascended gear, that people put on other people, is what causing A LOT of people not being able to take part in it.

It’s not the gear it’s the LFG system….

I’ve had gear ready to go for the last 2 months (ALL ASCENDED) but I am still yet to find 9 other people who want to start a raid.

I often find myself standing there spamming map chat and posting LFG but I never get anything, people want experienced raiders, not people trying to start one.

What’s so bad about the LFG system?

I agree it needs a raids category, but other than having to sort through all the open world stuff to find raid groups it seems to work well whenever I’ve used it.

Edit: I’ve never played WoW so please don’t just say it needs to be like theirs. I’d like to know what about their system makes it better.

I hope players realize that anet spending 3 years developing neutered PvE content that never challenged them to improve caused this.

Raids are a good thing for the game and add optional challenge for those that want it.
If you want to raid, you’ll inevitably under up gearing properly and joining a guild or forming a static to clear these encounters.

Don’t know what else you guys want from anet, as it seems you want them to be social for you when all it takes is some initiative on your part as players.

Snoopy Shannon.5123:

im fine with raids, i just don’t want it to affect the release of other content.

They were already asked during a prerelease livestream and unequivocally stated this is the way they were planning to be add ALL future end game content excepting fractals and of course expansions. Of course they also stated their version of raids wouldn’t be solely for hardcore players but open to everyone, and we all can see how that turned out.

This is what we’re getting, and if you don’t like it, or more likely, are locked out of it by any number of bullcrap restrictions over your characters or account or real life responsibilities, then you get nothing, which means most of us get nothing.

So I’d suggest you start speaking up about raid content being made for such a small portion of the playerbase, or get used to the idea that you basically paid for an incomplete expansion only to be locked out of a growing portion of its content post release.

Danikat.8537:

I’ve never played WoW so please don’t just say it needs to be like theirs. I’d like to know what about their system makes it better.

wow has 3 raids difficulty easy normal and hard and the easy one is fit for casuals and don’t require a lead just communication between players, and the rewards are mostly not locked , for the armors they made 3 colored version of the same for each raid difficulty.

TexZero.7910:

I hope players realize that anet spending 3 years developing neutered PvE content that never challenged them to improve caused this.

Raids are a good thing for the game and add optional challenge for those that want it.
If you want to raid, you’ll inevitably under up gearing properly and joining a guild or forming a static to clear these encounters.

Don’t know what else you guys want from anet, as it seems you want them to be social for you when all it takes is some initiative on your part as players.

All they had to do was put in content like GW1. Where you could travel to new lands and maps, and do new adventures and explore. And with a half reasonable story. But we’ve been stuck with the same maps forever, and when we got an expansion it had a whole 4 new maps, where you do nothing but grind away all day for terrible rewards. And the story blows.

I remember WoodenPotatoes did a video on the Tyria World map that had been datamined and speculated at all the places we could maybe go – places we didnt even explore in the first game. But we’ve barely moved out of the old maps after 3 years. Too many system changes, not enough new maps. That world map might as not exist.

Plus, this game has very little to do with old GW. They ignore lore and story connections to the old game. Many want to know about what’s happened to old characters or their ancestors and various items. They want to know the fallout from events in the first game. But ANet have intenstionally moved away from the first game in many aspects.

Is it any wonder people lost thier kitten when they thought Mursaat or Tengu or Titans or the Wizards Tower were incoming? No. Most people liked the old games story and lore, and wanted it to continue. Instead we got this ‘new’ Tyria that no really cares about, and we just retread old maps endlessly. No wonder people are getting fed up.

GW2 seems to do a a lot thing that is new or just not found in other MMO’s. A lot of idea’s WoW has directly ripped off. Even the Sylvari are in WoW. So you would think that GW2 dungeons would be very unique. For the most part when looking at what they did in the Fractals they are, and they had a good idea with content like that. However Anet has released as much dungeon content in 3 years as Blizzard has released in one patch. Forsaken Thicket is as dry and normal as raids get, and does not have the GW2 uniqueness going for it.

Anet is clearly putting a lot of work in to this raid, for a very small portion of the player base while everyone else just sits around and waits for content. Raids are honestly the wrong direction for this game and I don’t know what Anet was thinking. In fact this company is a little schizophrenic. The direction these guys take there game every 6-12 months seem to change.

Bottom line, they should of made competitive 5 man dungeons, that are made up of all they learned in the past 3 years on how make dungeon good, unlike there 8 they released at launch. What is wrong with releasing steady content. A new map to explore, with a dungeon attached to it. In fact Anet’s constant change of idea’s and often choosing the bad ones over the good ones has affected the success of this game.

Danikat.8537:

What’s so bad about the LFG system?

I agree it needs a raids category, but other than having to sort through all the open world stuff to find raid groups it seems to work well whenever I’ve used it.

Edit: I’ve never played WoW so please don’t just say it needs to be like theirs. I’d like to know what about their system makes it better.

Unless it has changed since Cata, the Raid LFG worked like this: There were 2 types of Raids. Only 1 used the LFG system.
1: Select what Raid you want.
2: Enter que until the required amount of players arrived.
3: Enter Raid.
This was good to a point, no one person/player had control of who entered.
The WoW Raids like we sort of have are instanced based, controlled and preset. Some groups would do gear checks and make you run the DPS dummies to verify your output is up to their requirements.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Manasa Devi.7958:

They can add as many raids as they like. Doesn’t bother me at all. It would be nice though if they’d add something I like some day soon.

^this. Where is the content for everyone else? There has been nothing new to do since HoT, that was 5 month’s ago. I don’t count a revamp and festivals(which didn’t really add anything new)

This seems a bit myopic. Anet spent over 3 years releasing content for nonraiders. They’ve spent far less time releasing content for raiders. Anet seems to bounce around releases, instead of content for everyone simultaneously. Your time will come again. Mike O’Brien’s AMA (I think it came from his AMA) even commented that the raid team is far smaller than the other PvE oriented teams.

tattyana.2356:

By now that raids were a bad idea unless they do something like blizzard did with there looking for raid thing. Otherwise your creating content only a fraction of the player base will ever see………

Sadly, that was the whole point of raids: to make it challenging so only some players could complete it. They actually don’t want raids to be accessible to everybody.

I believe a dev said somewhere a while back (might have been Reddit) that there will not be a dungeon finder type system for raids in the LFG tool. And the reason being was because raids are suppose to be done by organized teams, not pugs. (sorry, it would be too time consuming to try and find the dev post) If anything they might add a raid section in the LFG for people to advertise and form teams, but that’s about it.

Of course, plans are always subject to change and if there’s enough demand for it, they might do it. It depends on how much they want to keep raids only for the most hardcore elite players, thus locking out the average person from ever doing them.

Honestly though, a dungeon finder type system for raids, fractals, and actual dungeons, would be nice. Personally I prefer pugs because in my experience they don’t get angry and call you names when you goof up and get creamed by a boss (most of the time). They pick your bum up off the floor and y’all continue on.

I don’t think a looking for raid thing placing random people together works.
The part leader – should be able to:
(A) Specify requirements
(b) Choose professions / builds etc

I expect players to meet the above.
A team composition is important – throwing N random builds together generally won’t be very effective. Once they fix the lfg – people can advertise there interest and leaders should ve able to start advertising what they need (a) and (b) without people trolling the system or lfg.

Unfortunately some feel it’s okay to be carried and expect to be thrown into a winning group or just try for a very long time at content – this may not be everyone’s goal.
Some want an optimal group others just for fun- the ability to group together based on like minded ideals without fear or trolling is important.

You simply cannot just walk in like dugeons. I need 9 other fools like me!!! Unless I’m doing it wrong, lol.

Totally doing it wrong!

Must be why that NPC laughed at me.

Don’t care about Raids, but requiring you to play to get a mastery point is just wrong.

Raids are too hardcore for me. It fails if anyone in a party of ten makes a wrong move hence the hours of grind to get that perfect execution. People start blaming each other when things go wrong. People have expectations of each others gear and playstyle. you need a timeslot where ten people you think are up to it can commit for some hours. Raids are best played with real life friends and since I don’t have that number playing gw2 I don’t raid at all. Plus I sometimes don’t like to talk on teamspeak because if this and that reason. So.. I don’t raid.

DGraves.3720:

Randulf.7614:

And yet those fraction still deserve content.

For all the times I’ve heard this I’ve never heard an actual justification.

They paid for the game, the same way the people who don’t want to raid did. Anyone who paid for the game can come here and ask for something they want. If ANet deems it wise to provide that something, they might do so. If ANet provides it, they’re acknowledging that that demographic is large enough to warrant some dev effort.

Now, GW2 originally didn’t have raids, but it does now due in some part to demand. This works the same way demand works on other parts of the game.

Oh, and as far as the OP is concerned, 5 or 6 devs worked on this raid wing. There are 120 working on live GW2. ANet said the percentage of players who use raids was larger than in other games. Sounds about right to me.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Now, GW2 originally didn’t have raids, but it does now due in some part to demand. This works the same way demand works on other parts of the game.

It’s not because someone demand loud that its good for the game, just a speaking example is pvp, people complain a lot about balance when sometimes there is no reason to, in the end only the esl players meta builds are worth of trust about which build is op and which is not.

IndigoSundown.5419:

ANet said the percentage of players who use raids was larger than in other games.
Sounds about right to me.

have you a source for that plz i didn’t read it in the AMA?

Bebunw.8137:

Danikat.8537:

I’ve never played WoW so please don’t just say it needs to be like theirs. I’d like to know what about their system makes it better.

wow has 3 raids difficulty easy normal and hard and the easy one is fit for casuals and don’t require a lead just communication between players, and the rewards are mostly not locked , for the armors they made 3 colored version of the same for each raid difficulty.

Actually, LFG has really basic looking armor sets for LFG now, with the nice looking stuff for Heroic and Mythic

I hope anet realises that lfr ruined raiding in wow and therefore has no place here

Randulf.7614:

And yet those fraction still deserve content. Just because players like you and I aren’t raiding, doesn’t mean others shouldn’t have that chance

Sweet. I hope that fraction buys all the new stuff in the gem store they added in addition to their raid only update.

I’m busy playing Path of Exile’s new expansion and spending my money supporting that game.

I’ve played GW2 for 3 years and I didn’t spend 3 years playing, because I was just bidding my time, waiting for raids to come out.

If I wanted to invest my time into raiding, I would go reboot my WoW account. The game is dying, but they still do it a lot better.

I play GW2 for WvW and to chill and have fun with people in casual PvE content.

Both of these elements have been abandoned so far and I guess I spent $60 on an expansion to implement all these systems to serve as vehicles for future content….

…which 6 months later amount to a new raid wing which has nothing to do with why I played GW2 for all this time.

I’m not QQing. I’m just stating how it is. Have fun with the raids, but they are the reason I am not playing the game anymore. I hope not everyone feels how I do, because it’s going to be a really small player population pretty soon.

Hopefully in April, they will have something for me.

MadRabbit.3179:

Randulf.7614:

And yet those fraction still deserve content. Just because players like you and I aren’t raiding, doesn’t mean others shouldn’t have that chance

Sweet. I hope that fraction buys all the new stuff in the gem store they added in addition to their raid only update.

I’m busy playing Path of Exile’s new expansion and spending my money supporting that game.

I’ve played GW2 for 3 years and I didn’t spend 3 years playing, because I was just bidding my time, waiting for raids to come out.

If I wanted to invest my time into raiding, I would go reboot my WoW account. The game is dying, but they still do it a lot better.

I play GW2 for WvW and to chill and have fun with people in casual PvE content.

Both of these elements have been abandoned so far and I guess I spent $60 on an expansion to implement all these systems to serve as vehicles for future content….

…which 6 months later amount to a new raid wing which has nothing to do with why I played GW2 for all this time.

I’m not QQing. I’m just stating how it is. Have fun with the raids, but they are the reason I am not playing the game anymore. I hope not everyone feels how I do, because it’s going to be a really small player population pretty soon.

Hopefully in April, they will have something for me.

I agree to the fullest. But instead I am busy playing Xcom 2 and Final Fanasy Type-0.

In my guild we are over 100 players and “only” about 10-15 online at a time, and we never get enough interested players to do Raid. Iether they are just not interested in that kind of content or they don’t like the idea that we will fail the raid atleast a few times before we can compleate it. Those who have raided before don’t want to raid with the players in the guild who have never raided before and it leads to a bad feeling in the guild imo. I am interested in Raids, but I don’t want to PUG and I don’t want to be forced to use meta builds … But I have a feeling raiding is nothing for me, so until raids was released I was atleast able to do every content in the game to finally decide if I like it or not but as for raiding, I am out before I have even tried it.

I never wanted to but I think I am going to have to Youtube the story instead of playing it, yay fun.
I think Anet is putting alot of money and time on something that the majority of the playerbase is just not interested in or atleast not able to play.

Blude.6812:

Don’t care about Raids, but requiring you to play to get a mastery point is just wrong.

The mastery points from raids are only for raiding masteries, which you don’t need if you don’t raid. It’s essentialy a non-issue for non-raiders.

Raid like a degeneration in this age of MOBA.

I have zero interest in raiding and most likely will never set foot inside one .The strength of the game lies in accessible open world content that you can drop into and enjoy at any time.

An anet post (probably on reddit) mentioned that raids are only being made by a small group of people like 5-8 and doesn’t effect development from other parts of the game. I am happy for raids to exist if this is the case but don’t lose sight of what type of content made the game a success and in which the bulk of players are interested in.

In the HOT patch. We lost many thing in this game ….WvW , PvP balance, dungone …. , Now I don’t know login GW2 for what .. I may be AFK in a short time..

When WOW is going to grave step by step. You make a game like WOW now. This is 100% sure wrong way.

Bebunw.8137:

IndigoSundown.5419:

ANet said the percentage of players who use raids was larger than in other games.
Sounds about right to me.

have you a source for that plz i didn’t read it in the AMA?

“Raid in MMOs are high-end content designed for the more hardcore player. However, from an analytics standpoint, the participation is higher than other games we’ve seen. This is likely due to the nature of our progression system in GW2.”

http://dulfy.net/2016/03/05/gw2-developer-ama-on-reddit/

It’s the second ANet comment in the Raid subsection.

Farzo.8410:

Raids themselves aren’t bad.

The requirement of ascended gear, that people put on other people, is what causing A LOT of people not being able to take part in it.

And this is quite siginificant.
When I played WoW and did raids, I went there with lower gear to get better gear. Considering that new content does not give you more levels and stronger than core weapons and armor. It’s just for legendaries (yet these can be made out of HoT content) and skins to be honest. (Until raid gets to legendary armor then it’s another thing).

Along with that, in certain guilds there comes to such thing that some like to call: “Ring of self adoration” (rougly translated) That is formed with players who played for a long time, have a ton of alts and everything geared up to the fullest.
It’s quite a shame as one of the requirements in my guild is to have a few sets of equippement to fit the raid needs along with alternative characters (It’s not that bad though but a little overwhelming yet still, reminds me of vanilla WoW).
I wish to raid, but we all do real life stuff as well and for me it will take a loooong time before I’ll get all that stuff my guildies wish for before I enter this content.

raids arent restricted by the game itself, but by other players.
Its some players who want you to have experience, have specific gear or else….

The same goes for specific builds, its other players who want you to run that,
not the game.

This ‘run this build or your a noob’ was allready present in gw1

In gw1 our guild did all of the dungeons in hm, without any specific build or team setup, just go in and have fun 8-)

The same is possible in gw2, as long as you have a cool guild or a cool group
of friends to play with.
And in the future raids will probably also be pugable.

.

Sorin.4310:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Manasa Devi.7958:

They can add as many raids as they like. Doesn’t bother me at all. It would be nice though if they’d add something I like some day soon.

^this. Where is the content for everyone else? There has been nothing new to do since HoT, that was 5 month’s ago. I don’t count a revamp and festivals(which didn’t really add anything new)

This seems a bit myopic. Anet spent over 3 years releasing content for nonraiders. They’ve spent far less time releasing content for raiders. Anet seems to bounce around releases, instead of content for everyone simultaneously. Your time will come again. Mike O’Brien’s AMA (I think it came from his AMA) even commented that the raid team is far smaller than the other PvE oriented teams.

It felt like “my time” should’ve come up again when I bought HoT, which arrived after over a year of new content draught. It didn’t. Now we’re over 5 months in, and still nothing.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Sorin.4310:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Manasa Devi.7958:

They can add as many raids as they like. Doesn’t bother me at all. It would be nice though if they’d add something I like some day soon.

^this. Where is the content for everyone else? There has been nothing new to do since HoT, that was 5 month’s ago. I don’t count a revamp and festivals(which didn’t really add anything new)

This seems a bit myopic. Anet spent over 3 years releasing content for nonraiders. They’ve spent far less time releasing content for raiders. Anet seems to bounce around releases, instead of content for everyone simultaneously. Your time will come again. Mike O’Brien’s AMA (I think it came from his AMA) even commented that the raid team is far smaller than the other PvE oriented teams.

It felt like “my time” should’ve come up again when I bought HoT, which arrived after over a year of new content draught. It didn’t. Now we’re over 5 months in, and still nothing.

And if you are having to starve various demographics of players for extended periods of time in order to meet all the demand, then maybe, you have overextended your game into trying to be something for everyone, which we all know how well that works out.

I’ve never played a game that apparently lacked such a solid identity as to what it was that various factions of players with conflicting interests had to take a ticket and wait their turn to get something that fits them.

It wasn’t 3 years of making content for “all of us” and now it’s the “raiders” turn. It was 3 years of making content that played to it’s strengths and niche market and now, the only reason the concerns of the raiding demographic even matters is because Anet said “Hey, screw all that. We’re gonna start directly competing with every other MMO on the market.”

Anet and I had a good thing going on. They would release new content steadily. My play time would increase, I would spend cash in their gem store, because I loved the content and I enjoyed the experience and wanted to support it. I thought we were both happy.

What happened, baby? When did it all go wrong? When did we lose that special flame between us?

MadRabbit.3179:

It wasn’t 3 years of making content for “all of us” and now it’s the “raiders” turn. It was 3 years of making content that played to it’s strengths and niche market and now, the only reason the concerns of the raiding demographic even matters is because Anet said “Hey, screw all that. We’re gonna start directly competing with every other MMO on the market.”

They changed from their LS1 system to the LS2 system for a reason, they didn’t do it because they thought it was fun. The LS1 system wasn’t working as well as they wanted, that’s why they changed to the expansion model and that’s why they added things like PVP leagues and Raids.

If the LS1 model was such a glorius success we wouldn’t have either of those, we wouldn’t have expansions, we wouldn’t have raids, we wouldn’t have PVP leagues, we would still get a new episode every 2 weeks and that’s it. But apparently it wasn’t working as well as they wanted it to and it still caused loads of complaints.

And it’s still a very small subsection of the company working on the Raids… as I said in another thread if 2% of the company makes content for 2% of the playerbase, what’s wrong about it?

BrotherBelial.3094:

Manasa Devi.7958:

They can add as many raids as they like. Doesn’t bother me at all. It would be nice though if they’d add something I like some day soon.

^this. Where is the content for everyone else? There has been nothing new to do since HoT, that was 5 month’s ago. I don’t count a revamp and festivals(which didn’t really add anything new)

^ this ^2
Some of us are mostly solo PvErs. Actually, a lot of us are. In fact, most of the peeps I run into online & chat to, but don’t end up playing with, are. We are legion. Start paying attention ANet.

(I come home from a hard day & just want to relax & run some dailies, but instead I have to wait for an hour long update that adds absolutely nothing to my game – yay!)

maddoctor.2738:

MadRabbit.3179:

It wasn’t 3 years of making content for “all of us” and now it’s the “raiders” turn. It was 3 years of making content that played to it’s strengths and niche market and now, the only reason the concerns of the raiding demographic even matters is because Anet said “Hey, screw all that. We’re gonna start directly competing with every other MMO on the market.”

They changed from their LS1 system to the LS2 system for a reason, they didn’t do it because they thought it was fun. The LS1 system wasn’t working as well as they wanted, that’s why they changed to the expansion model and that’s why they added things like PVP leagues and Raids.

If the LS1 model was such a glorius success we wouldn’t have either of those, we wouldn’t have expansions, we wouldn’t have raids, we wouldn’t have PVP leagues, we would still get a new episode every 2 weeks and that’s it. But apparently it wasn’t working as well as they wanted it to and it still caused loads of complaints.

What does the LS1 model have to do with this? LS1 and LS2 had the same focus. LS2 was a logical step forward from LS1. It let new players catch up better by moving most of the action from old maps to new and introducing the Story Journal. It dropped temporary content. It dropped the new, harder dungeons like Aetherpath. It improved instanced content. It dropped the 2 weeks release schedule in favor of bigger releases. It moved open world gameplay in HoT’s direction, with Dry Top’s scheduled map states and Silverwastes’ map-wide metas.

Raids don’t fit into any of this.

dekou.6012:

What does the LS1 model have to do with this? LS1 and LS2 had the same focus. LS2 was a logical step forward from LS1.

No it wasn’t, LS2 was much different to LS1, and how the game was supposed to be at release (one time events if you recall) was also different to how LS1 worked. The thing is, they’ve been changing their release model a LOT. If it was so superior and successful why would they? It’s the same with the LS vs Expansion debate, did they just cave in to the demands of the vocal forum posters, or they somehow had metrics that showed an expansion would be better?

Raids don’t fit into any of this.

Of course they don’t fit that’s the whole point. They’ve been changing their release model (and their content type) regularly. As you said they moved from open zones to a zone like Dry Top with big map meta, then to Silverwastes with an even more strict map meta, to finally get to HoT. And even HoT zones have different meta types, VB and DS aren’t the same.

Don’t change what is working, it’s simple. So, if they indeed changed it (multiple times), it stands to reason that it wasn’t working as well as they wanted it to. Otherwise why change it in the first place?

It’s the same with the Raids. If the Raids and the PVP leagues are bringing in more people to the game then that’s a huge plus for the game. It’s another of those changes we should all be very used to by now. Is it a success or a failure? I think it’s too early to say for sure