Guild Wars 2

I feel sorry for the OP. What he misses is the Skinner Box.

He wants to chase that pellet….forever…

The problem is that most of those people have only ever played WoW or WoW-like MMORPGs and they think that’s the only way to play them. I played a sandbox for 2 years before WoW came out and gear was almost irrelevant in that game too. You could be a level 51 and do the same damage as a level 100, but you’d have half the health.

So many of you would propose that if someone doesnt like one part of the game they shouldnt play it? Do you really want people to leave the game? Seriously? Yes people bought a game where skill is more important than grind, maybe they hadnt tried that kind of style before; this is likely their first foray into this type of endgame.

I like that I dont have to grind to do content, but to tell people to gtko is just childish and harmful to the community as a whole. People can have different opinions, it is no more your game than it is theirs. If players ask Anet for a grind and they deliver, will you leave? If so then keeping with your opinion; “good ridance, go play something else scrub.”

And apparently people like to feel some sort of progression. If at lv 41 I could do the same damage as at 80, but my health was doubled, that would suck. Sandboxes are awesome, but without buffer content (building something, maintaining something, collectables) I dont personally find them fufilling if there is nothing to work towards.

Given the ammount of threads/complaints/complaints about complaints it is obvious that there is a significant ammount of people who view this as a problem. “It is fine with me so kitten everyone else” is not a very mature way to handle people trying to see the game evolve into what they want.

Oh and P.S- I dont like grinding, and prefer that it stay purely aesthetic; however I respect those that wish to see a meater grinding system.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

Yep.

I find it a very odd notion that one would state that ever increasing gear stats makes an environment highlight a differentiation in “skill”. I would even argue that video gaming requires little “skill” at all, but if I leave that topic alone I still can’t understand how anyone would claim that grinding anything would somehow grant someone more “skill”.

A level playing field reveals skill; not a lack of a job, family and proper hygiene.

It’s not even that.
Levelling is real progression, your character actually grows.

In this treadmill, your gear grows.
Take your gear off and suddenly you lose all your progression!

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Honestly, I cannot begin to see a reason why ArenaNet would implement this. They have built the game on the premise that they do not have a grind for stats system; rather, it is a grind for aesthetics. I understand what you are saying when you liked seeing the marginal improvements on your gear as you aspired to acquire Best in Slots for your class; however, the stats served the same purpose in that game as aesthetics do in this game.

The amount of effort put in to grind a set of dungeon gear is visual rather than statistical, which may leave some players feeling empty. However, I would argue this is a better system than the gear grind. In a gear grind, you could spend months trying to acquire the “drop” you needed from the boss you needed it from. Even then, if you managed to see the drop, you still had to RNG against other players for the piece (unless you were in a group or guild that passed out loot based on a point system). Either way, there would be some people who grinded (ground?) for months on end and would not acquire the piece they needed. On the other end, there would be others who seemed to be blessed by the gods themselves, as one run through might net them 4 or 5 pieces of gear. In Guild Wars 2, the grind is based partially on skill (ability to clear dungeons, with more efficient runs netting rewards quicker than less efficient methods), but mostly on time and dedication (frequent running of the dungeon over and over, with measurable progress via how many tokens the player has acquired, or how many pieces of their set they have purchased).

The primary difference for you, though, is that you like seeing your numbers go up, rather than seeing your character look a bit snazzier. That is simply how you enjoy playing your MMOs. However, ArenaNet did not want their game to require a grind for stats; rather, they wanted players to be able to choose what they want to grind. After all, what was the point of getting best in slot gear? Bragging rights. You looked and felt awesome, and it was evident in your appearance. I have not had a chance to look at dungeon armor yet, but you seem to not be impressed by the upgrade from one look to another. It may simply not be your thing. However, the ultimate goal is the same: bragging rights. The gear was an obvious representation of progression, effort, and dedication. The progression is visual instead of statistical, but it is still progression. For those who may not care for PvE grinding, there is also WvW to do for a more community-driven PvP, or of course sPvP and tPvP for those really into testing their ability to best their fellow Tyrians in a structured battle on an even playing field. There are grinds associated with PvP as well, although again, they are aesthetic and “bragging rights” more than anything.

On another note, there are also weapons that you can acquire with dungeon tokens from what I understand. These aesthetics do serve as an “in-between” step between a basic 80 exotic and a legendary. Some of them do have pretty cool skins as well. If you have not seen them, I would suggest checking them out.

darkwombat.3695:

I feel sorry for the OP. What he misses is the Skinner Box.

He wants to chase that pellet….forever…

Do you really think the reason you log in and play is any different? I hate to break it to you, but you’re just chasing a different pellet. That’s the problem with blaming things on some form of conditioning: Even your response to this thread granted you some form of satisfaction, and that’s why you did it.

Your argument applies to pretty much anything we do. Ever. Which means you somehow think we should want to play a game that doesn’t give us a reward. You’ve harbored contempt towards the “gear” reward, but have no problem with whatever other type of reward you’re getting here. I’m not sure why my pellet deserves your pity while your pellet remains anonymous

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Colton.9460:

I like that I dont have to grind to do content, but to tell people to gtko is just childish and harmful to the community as a whole. People can have different opinions, it is no more your game than it is theirs. If players ask Anet for a grind and they deliver, will you leave? If so then keeping with your opinion; “good ridance go play something else scrub.”

This game was built around the idea of no gear grind and ANet made that very clear. So adding that into the game would change the entire game. So we are completely valid in telling him to find a new game. Not in a mean way, but in a constructive way – what he wants is already out there in dozens of games. This is one of the only games that has what we want.

To answer your question – yes, I would be gone because that would mean I would also have to grind for gear and I came here so I don’t have to do that. Don’t try to force your ideas on us – this game was not made for that and you’ll just have to accept that. Enjoy what ArenaNet made for us, don’t try to make it something that the game devs themselves said they don’t want it to be. I don’t know why you would even think that idea makes any sense.

Colton.9460:

So many of you would propose that if someone doesnt like one part of the game they shouldnt play it? Do you really want people to leave the game? Seriously? Yes people bought a game where skill is more important than grind, maybe they hadnt tried that kind of style before; this is likely their first foray into this type of endgame.

I like that I dont have to grind to do content, but to tell people to gtko is just childish and harmful to the community as a whole. People can have different opinions, it is no more your game than it is theirs. If players ask Anet for a grind and they deliver, will you leave? If so then keeping with your opinion; “good ridance go play something else scrub.”

Um… yeah. That’s why I’m here. The day ANet adds in a gear grind with incremental stat improvements is the day I uninstall and start looking for a new MMO. No hesitation.

I see a lot of arguments with the same structure and the same problem. The arguments are paraphrased as follows:

1. The game was advertised as not being a gear grind.
2. The game is a vanity grind.
3. Therefore, grind vanity.

And I have responses to this argument, which applies to many of you.

1) Advertised as X doesn’t mean I don’t have the right to wantY. It might mean I should have known not to expect it, but I can still want it.
2) Show me the true vanity items for an asura ele. Most of the cloth in this game looks the same, which means my only real options for weapons or gear is to spend HUNDREDS of gold. A game is going to need smaller rewards that take place more often to keep people’s interest. To stretch this out, would you really play this game for an entire year to get an item, with no rewards in between? Doubtful.
3) It’s a grind either way kiddos. So if you’re hating me for grinding stats, you should point the same dirty finger at grinding vanity.

I’m ready to play your game. Show me all the awesome things I can buy with the 40g I’ve amassed. I’m ready to look cool and buy weapons that look even a LITTLE better than the basic crafted stuff.

Leiloni.7951:

Colton.9460:

I like that I dont have to grind to do content, but to tell people to gtko is just childish and harmful to the community as a whole. People can have different opinions, it is no more your game than it is theirs. If players ask Anet for a grind and they deliver, will you leave? If so then keeping with your opinion; “good ridance go play something else scrub.”

This game was built around the idea of no gear grind and ANet made that very clear. So adding that into the game would change the entire game. So we are completely valid in telling him to find a new game. Not in a mean way, but in a constructive way – what he wants is already out there in dozens of games. This is one of the only games that has what we want.

To answer your question – yes, I would be gone because that would mean I would also have to grind for gear and I came here so I don’t have to do that. Don’t try to force your ideas on us – this game was not made for that and you’ll just have to accept that. Enjoy what ArenaNet made for us, don’t try to make it something that the game devs themselves said they don’t want it to be. I don’t know why you would even think that idea makes any sense.

I see this argument a lot and I don’t see any support that it’s true. Just because a game advertised a feature doesn’t mean it was “built around” that feature. In every interview I can remember, this game was built around fun. They looked at aspects of an MMO and tried to keep the fun without the work.

Then you hit level 80 and are forced to mindlessly grind dungeons and events for money. Oh, and if you grind one spot too long they cut your rewards and don’t even give you any indication besides crappy drop rate. So you’re forced to grind and pray to the gods you haven’t farmed one spot too much.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

Colton.9460:

So many of you would propose that if someone doesnt like one part of the game they shouldnt play it? Do you really want people to leave the game? Seriously? Yes people bought a game where skill is more important than grind, maybe they hadnt tried that kind of style before; this is likely their first foray into this type of endgame.

I like that I dont have to grind to do content, but to tell people to gtko is just childish and harmful to the community as a whole. People can have different opinions, it is no more your game than it is theirs. If players ask Anet for a grind and they deliver, will you leave? If so then keeping with your opinion; “good ridance go play something else scrub.”

Um… yeah. That’s why I’m here. The day ANet adds in a gear grind with incremental stat improvements is the day I uninstall and start looking for a new MMO. No hesitation.

The game does in fact contain a gear grind for incremental stat increases:

- Blue < Green < Yellow < etc etc

If gear does not matter, and there is no skill requirement from players, all you are left with is a zerg fest, thus: The Gw2 failed model.

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Lol, why are you in every thread I’m reading trying to flex your “skills”. Seriously dude, you really need to get over yourself. I’ve found that people like you, people that flaunt how “skilled” they are, are often the least skilled in whatever they’re discussion. I’m sure you may think this game requires no skill and that you’re so amazing, but I very highly doubt that’s true.

As much flaming as this OP is getting, I kinda see his point. There is a large (LARGE) step between getting full exotics and getting a legendary item. You can farm/grind for gear and be done in about a week. Or you can farm/grind for legendary in be done in 3 months. There’s no middle ground.

Although I do also understand everybody else that has a problem with the OP. This game is a lot more about skill than getting lucky or who can grind for 10-12 hours a day. I think GW2 has a lot more people, like me, who can only play 1 to 2 hours a day. We don’t feel like we are at a disadvantage because our skill and awareness is a lot more important than how long we can grind a dungeon.

Moonpuncher.7250:

darkwombat.3695:

I feel sorry for the OP. What he misses is the Skinner Box.

He wants to chase that pellet….forever…

Do you really think the reason you log in and play is any different? I hate to break it to you, but you’re just chasing a different pellet. That’s the problem with blaming things on some form of conditioning: Even your response to this thread granted you some form of satisfaction, and that’s why you did it.

Your argument applies to pretty much anything we do. Ever. Which means you somehow think we should want to play a game that doesn’t give us a reward. You’ve harbored contempt towards the “gear” reward, but have no problem with whatever other type of reward you’re getting here. I’m not sure why my pellet deserves your pity while your pellet remains anonymous

Very true! Life is a big pellet chase. Why do we work? We like getting paid. Rinse and repeat for most everything.

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Lol, why are you in every thread I’m reading trying to flex your “skills”. Seriously dude, you really need to get over yourself. I’ve found that people like you, people that flaunt how “skilled” they are, are often the least skilled in whatever they’re discussion. I’m sure you may think this game requires no skill and that you’re so amazing, but I very highly doubt that’s true.

I guess you can’t read. I said there are NO Player skill requirements in the game. Therefore, I did not contend to have any. The game does not even offer the ability to be skillful. I hope you can read one day, and deduce a logical argument. I hope!

Ethics.4519:

As much flaming as this OP is getting, I kinda see his point. There is a large (LARGE) step between getting full exotics and getting a legendary item. You can farm/grind for gear and be done in about a week. Or you can farm/grind for legendary in be done in 3 months. There’s no middle ground.

Although I do also understand everybody else that has a problem with the OP. This game is a lot more about skill than getting lucky or who can grind for 10-12 hours a day. I think GW2 has a lot more people, like me, who can only play 1 to 2 hours a day. We don’t feel like we are at a disadvantage because our skill and awareness is a lot more important than how long we can grind a dungeon.

Thanks. The problem I see is that people equate sympathizing with me to instantly transforming this game into World of Warcraft. Sorry guys, but admitting you’d like ways to get better stats (or more vanity gear options) doesn’t mean you want the blizzard whip on your back.

Now that you’ve made it clear you hate good gear (weirdos), let’s focus on vanity stuff. Why is there such a huge leap between stuff that looks good and stuff that looks plain? Why is it that an 80 blue staff looks about as good as an 80 exotic crafted and as good as an 80 exotic for 50G on the trading post? Why does the legendary precursor look plain as well? You took away the stat grind for gear but replaced it with almost nothing. What am I supposed to do in between now and legendary? Oh, that’s right, GRIND with no reward.

This is where these arguments are unraveling.

Moonpuncher.7250:

1) Advertised as X doesn’t mean I don’t have the right to wantY. It might mean I should have known not to expect it, but I can still want it.

And you’re going to continue to be told by people you’ll need to find it somewhere else. If I buy a puzzle game expecting an arcade brawler, what is my best course of action?

1. Recognize my mistake, and buy an arcade brawler.
2. Try to learn to enjoy a puzzle game based on its own merits.
3. Storm the forums and demand it be changed to an arcade brawler, and screw people who like puzzles.

Moonpuncher.7250:

2) Show me the true vanity items for an asura ele. Most of the cloth in this game looks the same, which means my only real options for weapons or gear is to spend HUNDREDS of gold. A game is going to need smaller rewards that take place more often to keep people’s interest. To stretch this out, would you really play this game for an entire year to get an item, with no rewards in between? Doubtful.

The game needs more “reward” tiers in the form of cosmetic items or “fluff” that can allow them to feel a sense of setting and meeting goals without those goals directly translating into endless vertical statistical progression on their avatar. This is “content”. You could attempt to make the argument that GW2 launched content light, and I would laugh at you, because it didn’t. But there will never be a game made that you cannot exhaust the content in with heavy play time, unless that content is specifically gated behind lengthy time-sinks and treadmills.

Moonpuncher.7250:

3) It’s a grind either way kiddos. So if you’re hating me for grinding stats, you should point the same dirty finger at grinding vanity.

It’s an optional grind. I can see all the content in the game, and experience PvP on a completely level field, without having to sink hundreds if not thousands of hours into a perpetual gear chase. I’m quite certain you can understand the value in that. The current grind on cosmetic items is, frankly, absurd, and I’m not sure why they chose to do it that way, but there it is. I’d like to see them add a LOT more, and some of them easier to reach. But that, again, is content. And new content must needs be delayed while they get the content they already have actually working.

Animus.6073:

Moonpuncher.7250:

Animus.6073:

Moonpuncher.7250:

Animus.6073:

Moonpuncher.7250:

But guess what? GW1 wasn’t that popular.

The expression “guess what” is not a question no matter how many question marks you put after it. It is an exclamation or a statement. Good god people suck at English.

Read a book while you wait for ArenaNet to give you your grind back (if they ever intend on doing that).

It’s a rhetorical question. I also used one question mark so I’m not sure why that was important to mention. And this doesn’t really have anything to do with “English” ability. But I really appreciate this post.

I graduated with an English minor and am considered to have excellent verbal and written communication skills at my job. Part of the reason I excel at this is because I know how formal my communication should be in any medium. So guess what? There’s nothing wrong with that post.

I don’t want to derail your thread any further, but since you are so inclined to defend your grammar, you should know that you are incorrect. It is not a rhetorical question. I graduated with an English major and a writing minor. Am I more qualified to determine what is and what is not a question because of this? No.

Having said that, a rhetorical question is a question that does not require an answer and is often said in place of a statement to evoke an emotion or prove a point. “Guess what” is not a question; it is a statement that begs the readers to then ask themselves, or you, “what?” To which you might respond with an answer, although in this case, one is not needed because it is self evident. Just because it shares the quality of not needing an answer does not make it a question, rhetorical or not.

Edit: made “readers” plural because I done goofed.

My question did not require an answer. It also had proper sentence structure, since it included a verb and predicate object with an understood “you” for the subject. Looks like it meets your requirements for a rhetorical question (since the second half of your definition only mentioned “often”, which does not mean necessarily).

I’ll always take time out of my day to show someone why he’s wrong.

/facepalm

You need to go back to school if you really graduated with an English minor and think that “guess what” is a question. You are correct in claiming that the statement does not require an answer because that answer is self evident. However, you have not posed a question.

I see you’ve gone back to assuming you’re right without giving any evidence. Also, I’m sure you can get a degree in English without knowing if “Guess what?” is a question or not. Because guess what? One of us managed!

This thread is now about the importance of drawing distinctions between regular questions, rhetorical questions, and Moonpuncher (who is the stupidest person on the planet because he thinks “Guess what?” is a question.) Man, what a moron, right!

Moonpuncher.7250:

Ethics.4519:

As much flaming as this OP is getting, I kinda see his point. There is a large (LARGE) step between getting full exotics and getting a legendary item. You can farm/grind for gear and be done in about a week. Or you can farm/grind for legendary in be done in 3 months. There’s no middle ground.

Although I do also understand everybody else that has a problem with the OP. This game is a lot more about skill than getting lucky or who can grind for 10-12 hours a day. I think GW2 has a lot more people, like me, who can only play 1 to 2 hours a day. We don’t feel like we are at a disadvantage because our skill and awareness is a lot more important than how long we can grind a dungeon.

Thanks. The problem I see is that people equate sympathizing with me to instantly transforming this game into World of Warcraft. Sorry guys, but admitting you’d like ways to get better stats (or more vanity gear options) doesn’t mean you want the blizzard whip on your back.

Now that you’ve made it clear you hate good gear (weirdos), let’s focus on vanity stuff. Why is there such a huge leap between stuff that looks good and stuff that looks plain? Why is it that an 80 blue staff looks about as good as an 80 exotic crafted and as good as an 80 exotic for 50G on the trading post? Why does the legendary precursor look plain as well? You took away the stat grind for gear but replaced it with almost nothing. What am I supposed to do in between now and legendary? Oh, that’s right, GRIND with no reward.

This is where these arguments are unraveling.

Actually they keep unraveling because of your delivery. If you avoid taking stabs and making cynical comments people may take your point of view into consideration. I agree, the gap in gear tiers (if we can so boldly call them that) is too wide and needs more expansion.

Moonpuncher.7250:

I see a lot of arguments with the same structure and the same problem. The arguments are paraphrased as follows:

1. The game was advertised as not being a gear grind.
2. The game is a vanity grind.
3. Therefore, grind vanity.

And I have responses to this argument, which applies to many of you.

1) Advertised as X doesn’t mean I don’t have the right to wantY. It might mean I should have known not to expect it, but I can still want it.
2) Show me the true vanity items for an asura ele. Most of the cloth in this game looks the same, which means my only real options for weapons or gear is to spend HUNDREDS of gold. A game is going to need smaller rewards that take place more often to keep people’s interest. To stretch this out, would you really play this game for an entire year to get an item, with no rewards in between? Doubtful.
3) It’s a grind either way kiddos. So if you’re hating me for grinding stats, you should point the same dirty finger at grinding vanity.

I’m ready to play your game. Show me all the awesome things I can buy with the 40g I’ve amassed. I’m ready to look cool and buy weapons that look even a LITTLE better than the basic crafted stuff.

1) Advertised as X doesn’t mean I don’t have the right to wantY. It might mean I should have known not to expect it, but I can still want it.

You’re absolutely correct. You can want whatever you want. However, why bother posting “I want this feature that has been advertised as not going to be in this game”? Do you think Arenanet are going to read this and think “hey, this guy wants a gear treadmill. Mayb we should completely abolish our entire game structure and revert back to the ways of traditional MMOs since some people like that.” No, they’re going to stick to being different because if you want gear tread,ills there are already plenty of games to choose from. GW2 is meant to be an alternative not a competitor. That’s the part I think a lot of people don’t get. This was never meant as a WoW killer. It was meant as a WoW alternative.

2) Show me the true vanity items for an asura ele. Most of the cloth in this game looks the same, which means my only real options for weapons or gear is to spend HUNDREDS of gold.

This is opinion. You will not like the same gear that I like. If there’s no gear that you like the look of than you’re correct. You have nothing to grind for, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t items for other people to grind for. Plenty of other people in the game like the look of light armor. This is unfortunate, but no developer can please everyone when it comes to matters of personal taste.

3) It’s a grind either way kiddos. So if you’re hating me for grinding stats, you should point the same dirty finger at grinding vanity.

Yeah, I personally (and a few others) have not denied that there is a grind. The difference here is that this grind is optional. In WoW, for example, if I want to stay competitive I have to grind for the best gear or I get left behind. In GW2 I can get the best gear pretty easily and then I only have to grind if I want to look cooler. I like this model better. Not everyone will but again, that comes back to my point about this game being an alternative rather than a competitor/clone.

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Lol, why are you in every thread I’m reading trying to flex your “skills”. Seriously dude, you really need to get over yourself. I’ve found that people like you, people that flaunt how “skilled” they are, are often the least skilled in whatever they’re discussion. I’m sure you may think this game requires no skill and that you’re so amazing, but I very highly doubt that’s true.

I guess you can’t read. I said there are NO Player skill requirements in the game. Therefore, I did not contend to have any. The game does not even offer the ability to be skillful. I hope you can read one day, and deduce a logical argument. I hope!

Meh, usually when some elitest dude comes into a form and claims a game requires no skill, he’s implying it’s too easy for him or that he’s so smart and talented that this game doesn’t classify as skillful. So I see where he’s coming from with you.

Moonpuncher.7250:

Ethics.4519:

As much flaming as this OP is getting, I kinda see his point. There is a large (LARGE) step between getting full exotics and getting a legendary item. You can farm/grind for gear and be done in about a week. Or you can farm/grind for legendary in be done in 3 months. There’s no middle ground.

Although I do also understand everybody else that has a problem with the OP. This game is a lot more about skill than getting lucky or who can grind for 10-12 hours a day. I think GW2 has a lot more people, like me, who can only play 1 to 2 hours a day. We don’t feel like we are at a disadvantage because our skill and awareness is a lot more important than how long we can grind a dungeon.

Thanks. The problem I see is that people equate sympathizing with me to instantly transforming this game into World of Warcraft. Sorry guys, but admitting you’d like ways to get better stats (or more vanity gear options) doesn’t mean you want the blizzard whip on your back.

Now that you’ve made it clear you hate good gear (weirdos), let’s focus on vanity stuff. Why is there such a huge leap between stuff that looks good and stuff that looks plain? Why is it that an 80 blue staff looks about as good as an 80 exotic crafted and as good as an 80 exotic for 50G on the trading post? Why does the legendary precursor look plain as well? You took away the stat grind for gear but replaced it with almost nothing. What am I supposed to do in between now and legendary? Oh, that’s right, GRIND with no reward.

This is where these arguments are unraveling.

In my wall of text post above you must have missed me addressing the weapon argument that you keep making. You seem to want to buy your aesthetics with your gold, rather than with effort. You realize all the dungeons have weapons that you can purchase with tokens? A lot of these weapons have pretty awesome particle effects. In fact, one of ArenaNet’s problems is that they don’t allow you to view particle effects in “preview” mode. Rather, you have to actually equip the weapon to see it (try previewing a fiery dragon sword; you’ll see what I mean). The ghastly weapons from AC have an ethereal, blue spirit like effect that sort of looks like an icy enchant in WoW, or blue flames. These weapons don’t require near as much of a grind as the legendary, and can be considered an “in-between” step between crafted and legendary.

I just can’t believe people on this thread really want to make the argument that the Gw2 cosmetic grind model is different from the WoW gear grind model.

They are the same. It is not innovative.

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Lol, why are you in every thread I’m reading trying to flex your “skills”. Seriously dude, you really need to get over yourself. I’ve found that people like you, people that flaunt how “skilled” they are, are often the least skilled in whatever they’re discussion. I’m sure you may think this game requires no skill and that you’re so amazing, but I very highly doubt that’s true.

I guess you can’t read. I said there are NO Player skill requirements in the game. Therefore, I did not contend to have any. The game does not even offer the ability to be skillful. I hope you can read one day, and deduce a logical argument. I hope!

It absolutely does require skill, and to imply it doesn’t is to imply that your are so skillful that it doesn’t require skill. Try doing explorable dungeons with 0 skill. It’s not going to happen.

I for one is happy this game doesn’t have a gear grind. That is the one thing I hate most about modern MMOs. But, that’s just one old gamers opinion.. I’d rather go out and WvW all day, then dungeon crawl for a small chance to get that epic item that will be outdated in a week.

Moonpuncher.7250:

darkwombat.3695:

I feel sorry for the OP. What he misses is the Skinner Box.

He wants to chase that pellet….forever…

Do you really think the reason you log in and play is any different? I hate to break it to you, but you’re just chasing a different pellet. That’s the problem with blaming things on some form of conditioning: Even your response to this thread granted you some form of satisfaction, and that’s why you did it.

Your argument applies to pretty much anything we do. Ever. Which means you somehow think we should want to play a game that doesn’t give us a reward. You’ve harbored contempt towards the “gear” reward, but have no problem with whatever other type of reward you’re getting here. I’m not sure why my pellet deserves your pity while your pellet remains anonymous

No there’s a difference between chasing the pellet and doing whatever it takes to get there because you’ve been programmed to do so, and simply enjoying the game. I have not hit 80, I have several alts, and I just log in and do whatever I want. I’m not grinding for anything, I’m not trying to power level my way to 80. I just do what sounds fun at the time. I’ve done some crafting, hearts, DE’s, WvW, story and explorable dungeons. I’m not chasing any pellets at all. When I do get pellets, it’s quite nice. But I don’t need the pellet, the journey there, whether I complete that journey or not, is what I’m enjoying. You are doing the opposite – you are not thinking of the journey, but simply the endless need to chase that pellet. You will never be satisfied like that.

Omega.5682:

I just can’t believe people on this thread really want to make the argument that the Gw2 cosmetic grind model is different from the WoW gear grind model.

They are the same. It is not innovative.

Grinding gear with better stats required to complete end game content = required grind for the sake of grinding.

Grinding gear that looks pretty but having easy access to gear with stats required to complete end game content = optional grind for the sake of wanting to look better.

They are not the same. At all…

Leiloni.7951:

Colton.9460:

I like that I dont have to grind to do content, but to tell people to gtko is just childish and harmful to the community as a whole. People can have different opinions, it is no more your game than it is theirs. If players ask Anet for a grind and they deliver, will you leave? If so then keeping with your opinion; “good ridance go play something else scrub.”

This game was built around the idea of no gear grind and ANet made that very clear. So adding that into the game would change the entire game. So we are completely valid in telling him to find a new game. Not in a mean way, but in a constructive way – what he wants is already out there in dozens of games. This is one of the only games that has what we want.

To answer your question – yes, I would be gone because that would mean I would also have to grind for gear and I came here so I don’t have to do that. Don’t try to force your ideas on us – this game was not made for that and you’ll just have to accept that. Enjoy what ArenaNet made for us, don’t try to make it something that the game devs themselves said they don’t want it to be. I don’t know why you would even think that idea makes any sense.

I hope the “you” that is refered in your post is not directed at me, because if my post didnt make it clear enough I like that there is no mandatory grind. All I was saying is that people should be respectful of what other players consider fun and what they think would improve the game. Instead of “go play something else”, why cant it be “this game is not really set up for that playstyle, why not try x,y, or z playstyle? I find it quite enjoyable”

Some people just seem mean spirited lol. I play games to try and make my character as epic as possible, GW2 lets me do that. I can make him look a bad motherkitten and set up a build that I think is awesome. Getting better gear doesnt add to my playstyle because if everyone needs the gear, then it is no longer special, it is obliged. I can feel this way and still understand and respect different kinds of players though.

Moonpuncher.7250:

darkwombat.3695:

I feel sorry for the OP. What he misses is the Skinner Box.

He wants to chase that pellet….forever…

Do you really think the reason you log in and play is any different? I hate to break it to you, but you’re just chasing a different pellet. That’s the problem with blaming things on some form of conditioning: Even your response to this thread granted you some form of satisfaction, and that’s why you did it.

Your argument applies to pretty much anything we do. Ever. Which means you somehow think we should want to play a game that doesn’t give us a reward. You’ve harbored contempt towards the “gear” reward, but have no problem with whatever other type of reward you’re getting here. I’m not sure why my pellet deserves your pity while your pellet remains anonymous

I log in to have fun. To find competition. There is no reward/punishment mechanism or insidious design behind that. Competition in it’s purest form has been around long before behaviour conditioning existed. To call that a “pellet” means you don’t fundamentally understand what behaviour conditioning is.

Game companies now hire psychologists and addiction behaviour specialists to influence game design to be as addictive as possible. This is a very real thing that is happening right now. Every healthy, indepedent adult needs to come to terms with the fact that this hobby of ours is now in the business of turning us into proverbial junkies to keep us paying for our next fix. Asking for a gear grind to be implemented is just withdrawl happening.

This goes well beyond just video games, but there is a war on and your mind is the battlefield. Lucky for us, ANet isn’t in the business of creating addicts by providing as grind free of an experience as possible.

I want to re-state my argument to be a little less inflammatory, since I’m having fun poking and getting poked and losing track of the reason I started this thread.

Let me tell you something I like about MMO gaming, without assuming all of the negative connotations attached to it.

I like logging in every week and knowing my character is a little better than he was last week. That “progression” is part of why I like playing an MMO. I’ve learned to part from that a bit when I started playing MOBA-type games, but a good ol-fashioned MMO should, in my opinion, let me progress bit by bit.

Now we’re arguing about what exactly constitutes “progression” and that’s fine. For me, it’s saying “Look at that new helm you handsome buck! All that crit damage, and that cool glowing effect!”. For some of you, it’s seeing your total world completion going up. Either way, the feeling that you’re changing your character for the better appeals to many of you, as it appeals to me.

This game, however, isn’t offering me much in the way of improvement at this point. Now I can log in and say “Wow, I’m 20k karma closer to legendary, which puts me on track for November 2013!”. I need a little more than that if I’m going to bother with a persistent MMO.

And the worst part is that ANET agrees with me! Sure, they may have taken a stance against gear power. But they’re offering bit-by-bit progression. That’s why there’s 80 levels in this game. If people didn’t care about chasing the carrot on the stick, this would be a type of MOBA, where everyone logs in as a level 80 with max gear and roams through the game for fun. But I somehow doubt you’d put chickens in their cages in the level 35 zone to fill up the renown heart and buy some okra if you didn’t need to gain another level.

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Lol, why are you in every thread I’m reading trying to flex your “skills”. Seriously dude, you really need to get over yourself. I’ve found that people like you, people that flaunt how “skilled” they are, are often the least skilled in whatever they’re discussion. I’m sure you may think this game requires no skill and that you’re so amazing, but I very highly doubt that’s true.

I guess you can’t read. I said there are NO Player skill requirements in the game. Therefore, I did not contend to have any. The game does not even offer the ability to be skillful. I hope you can read one day, and deduce a logical argument. I hope!

It absolutely does require skill, and to imply it doesn’t is to imply that your are so skillful that it doesn’t require skill. Try doing explorable dungeons with 0 skill. It’s not going to happen.

You really want to say doing exp dungeons requires skill? Its the same as anything else. You go to the dungeon, you wipe, you learn, then you remember….. Not to mention, you just zerg each boss, avoid red circles on the ground, and of course play ranged.

please try again.

Leiloni.7951:

Moonpuncher.7250:

darkwombat.3695:

I feel sorry for the OP. What he misses is the Skinner Box.

He wants to chase that pellet….forever…

Do you really think the reason you log in and play is any different? I hate to break it to you, but you’re just chasing a different pellet. That’s the problem with blaming things on some form of conditioning: Even your response to this thread granted you some form of satisfaction, and that’s why you did it.

Your argument applies to pretty much anything we do. Ever. Which means you somehow think we should want to play a game that doesn’t give us a reward. You’ve harbored contempt towards the “gear” reward, but have no problem with whatever other type of reward you’re getting here. I’m not sure why my pellet deserves your pity while your pellet remains anonymous

No there’s a difference between chasing the pellet and doing whatever it takes to get there because you’ve been programmed to do so, and simply enjoying the game. I have not hit 80, I have several alts, and I just log in and do whatever I want. I’m not grinding for anything, I’m not trying to power level my way to 80. I just do what sounds fun at the time. I’ve done some crafting, hearts, DE’s, WvW, story and explorable dungeons. I’m not chasing any pellets at all. When I do get pellets, it’s quite nice. But I don’t need the pellet, the journey there, whether I complete that journey or not, is what I’m enjoying. You are doing the opposite – you are not thinking of the journey, but simply the endless need to chase that pellet. You will never be satisfied like that.

You seriously aren’t understanding that the “journey” is your pellet? Come on, man. The only difference between your motivation and mine is that yours is a little more vague and mine has numbers attached to it. I’m not saying you’re stupid for enjoying a game (heck I really loved the trek to 80). I’m just saying you should come to terms with the fact that EVERYTHING you do is for a reward. Maybe its seeing a new zone or filling up each heart as you go through. Either way, you’re doing it for the same reason I am: dopamine high.

Omega.5682:

I just can’t believe people on this thread really want to make the argument that the Gw2 cosmetic grind model is different from the WoW gear grind model.

They are the same. It is not innovative.

It is different in one significant way; it does not impact your character’s effectiveness in a given scenario. In WoW, you HAVE TO grind gear to participate in raids, and then raid gear to participate in better raids, until you reach “Best in Slot.” You cannot ding 80, grab a starter set of gear, and run end-game content (this is slightly untrue at the moment, because Pandaria just came out, so end-game content is starter content, but you get what I mean). Getting the “Best” gear statistically in WoW is a HUGE grind. Getting the statistically best gear in GW is not. After you have the best stats, you are free to choose what you want to grind, whereas in WoW you have the ladder set out for you; grind this raid, then this one, then this one, etc. The freedom of choice is what makes it different.

Also, tokens that are redeemed for what you want. WoW has this in a sense with the tokens that drop from dungeons and raids, but they only by you a limited number of pieces. You still have to run dungeons and hope for a drop to get your Best in Slot. Guild Wars 2 diminishes the luck element severely.

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Lol, why are you in every thread I’m reading trying to flex your “skills”. Seriously dude, you really need to get over yourself. I’ve found that people like you, people that flaunt how “skilled” they are, are often the least skilled in whatever they’re discussion. I’m sure you may think this game requires no skill and that you’re so amazing, but I very highly doubt that’s true.

I guess you can’t read. I said there are NO Player skill requirements in the game. Therefore, I did not contend to have any. The game does not even offer the ability to be skillful. I hope you can read one day, and deduce a logical argument. I hope!

It absolutely does require skill, and to imply it doesn’t is to imply that your are so skillful that it doesn’t require skill. Try doing explorable dungeons with 0 skill. It’s not going to happen.

You really want to say doing exp dungeons requires skill? Its the same as anything else. You go to the dungeon, you wipe, you learn, then you remember….. Not to mention, you just zerg each boss, avoid red circles on the ground, and of course play ranged.

please try again.

“and of course play ranged.”

Oh, my bad. I was wrong, you were right. You aren’t skilled. If this your mentality than you don’t actually have skill, so thanks for clearing that up.

Signed,
A melee explorable dungeon runner

AVHero.7382:

Omega.5682:

I just can’t believe people on this thread really want to make the argument that the Gw2 cosmetic grind model is different from the WoW gear grind model.

They are the same. It is not innovative.

It is different in one significant way; it does not impact your character’s effectiveness in a given scenario. In WoW, you HAVE TO grind gear to participate in raids, and then raid gear to participate in better raids, until you reach “Best in Slot.” You cannot ding 80, grab a starter set of gear, and run end-game content (this is slightly untrue at the moment, because Pandaria just came out, so end-game content is starter content, but you get what I mean). Getting the “Best” gear statistically in WoW is a HUGE grind. Getting the statistically best gear in GW is not. After you have the best stats, you are free to choose what you want to grind, whereas in WoW you have the ladder set out for you; grind this raid, then this one, then this one, etc. The freedom of choice is what makes it different.

Also, tokens that are redeemed for what you want. WoW has this in a sense with the tokens that drop from dungeons and raids, but they only by you a limited number of pieces. You still have to run dungeons and hope for a drop to get your Best in Slot. Guild Wars 2 diminishes the luck element severely.

So how much “fun” do you expect to have with your character who fundamentally stays the same for the entire time you play the game?

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

Moonpuncher.7250:

darkwombat.3695:

I feel sorry for the OP. What he misses is the Skinner Box.

He wants to chase that pellet….forever…

Do you really think the reason you log in and play is any different? I hate to break it to you, but you’re just chasing a different pellet. That’s the problem with blaming things on some form of conditioning: Even your response to this thread granted you some form of satisfaction, and that’s why you did it.

Your argument applies to pretty much anything we do. Ever. Which means you somehow think we should want to play a game that doesn’t give us a reward. You’ve harbored contempt towards the “gear” reward, but have no problem with whatever other type of reward you’re getting here. I’m not sure why my pellet deserves your pity while your pellet remains anonymous

I log in to have fun. To find competition. There is no reward/punishment mechanism or insidious design behind that. Competition in it’s purest form has been around long before behaviour conditioning existed. To call that a “pellet” means you don’t fundamentally understand what behaviour conditioning is.

Game companies now hire psychologists and addiction behaviour specialists to influence game design to be as addictive as possible. This is a very real thing that is happening right now. Every healthy, indepedent adult needs to come to terms with the fact that this hobby of ours is now in the business of turning us into proverbial junkies to keep us paying for our next fix. Asking for a gear grind to be implemented is just withdrawl happening.

This goes well beyond just video games, but there is a war on and your mind is the battlefield. Lucky for us, ANet isn’t in the business of creating addicts by providing as grind free of an experience as possible.

Let’s also bring to light a tactic you’re using now. By using words like addiction, addicts, junkies, and fix, you’re trying to connect this game with all the horrible things we know about drug addiction.

Addiction usually implies that we’re powerless to discontinue use. This game, however, is just fun. If you enjoy spending time with your family, how would you feel if I suggested the feeling you got from holding your son or daughter was just like a junkie getting his first fix of the day? You can’t equate pleasure with addiction. The two HAVE a relationship, but they aren’t always connected.

We get rewards for everything we do. This is why we are all, in a way, rats chasing pellets. That doesn’t make the world any less beautiful or our hobbies any less passionate. I’m happy with the amount of time I spend gaming. It’s my favorite hobby and it doesn’t ruin my life. If I develop a heroin addiction I suspect the situation would be very different.

So how much “fun” do you expect to have with your character who fundamentally stays the same for the entire time you play the game? Really I’d like to know.

You guys can flame the OP all you want.

For a game where the only carrot is cosmetic skins, their sure as hell isn’t much of it.

Moonpuncher.7250:

I want to re-state my argument to be a little less inflammatory, since I’m having fun poking and getting poked and losing track of the reason I started this thread.

Let me tell you something I like about MMO gaming, without assuming all of the negative connotations attached to it.

I like logging in every week and knowing my character is a little better than he was last week. That “progression” is part of why I like playing an MMO. I’ve learned to part from that a bit when I started playing MOBA-type games, but a good ol-fashioned MMO should, in my opinion, let me progress bit by bit.

Now we’re arguing about what exactly constitutes “progression” and that’s fine. For me, it’s saying “Look at that new helm you handsome buck! All that crit damage, and that cool glowing effect!”. For some of you, it’s seeing your total world completion going up. Either way, the feeling that you’re changing your character for the better appeals to many of you, as it appeals to me.

This game, however, isn’t offering me much in the way of improvement at this point. Now I can log in and say “Wow, I’m 20k karma closer to legendary, which puts me on track for November 2013!”. I need a little more than that if I’m going to bother with a persistent MMO.

And the worst part is that ANET agrees with me! Sure, they may have taken a stance against gear power. But they’re offering bit-by-bit progression. That’s why there’s 80 levels in this game. If people didn’t care about chasing the carrot on the stick, this would be a type of MOBA, where everyone logs in as a level 80 with max gear and roams through the game for fun. But I somehow doubt you’d put chickens in their cages in the level 35 zone to fill up the renown heart and buy some okra if you didn’t need to gain another level.

So bottom line here is this:

This game offers many rewards once you reach level cap. These rewards are not rewarding to you. Therefore you feel like you have no reason to play because you have no sense of progression/reward for doing so.

This all makes sense, but it still comes beck to my original point of this game being different. This game is an alternative to other types of MMOs. The rewards or “carrot” as it’s often referred are going to be different. This games rewards/progression appeal to me the same way GW1’s rewards appealed to me. Hence I very much enjoy the game and feel rewarded.

Bottom line, I don’t think this game will ever be rewarding for you. We’re chasing different carrots or, more accurately, you’re chasing carrots and I’m chasing bananas.

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Lol, why are you in every thread I’m reading trying to flex your “skills”. Seriously dude, you really need to get over yourself. I’ve found that people like you, people that flaunt how “skilled” they are, are often the least skilled in whatever they’re discussion. I’m sure you may think this game requires no skill and that you’re so amazing, but I very highly doubt that’s true.

I guess you can’t read. I said there are NO Player skill requirements in the game. Therefore, I did not contend to have any. The game does not even offer the ability to be skillful. I hope you can read one day, and deduce a logical argument. I hope!

It absolutely does require skill, and to imply it doesn’t is to imply that your are so skillful that it doesn’t require skill. Try doing explorable dungeons with 0 skill. It’s not going to happen.

You really want to say doing exp dungeons requires skill? Its the same as anything else. You go to the dungeon, you wipe, you learn, then you remember….. Not to mention, you just zerg each boss, avoid red circles on the ground, and of course play ranged.

please try again.

What you’re describing does sound like skill. I’d love it if you gave us all your definition of skill. I suspect it will contend heavily with “talent”. Doing something, failing, and learning from those mistakes to improve is certainly an element of skill as far as I’m concerned. And they say “practice makes perfect” fora reason. I get my butt kicked in dungeons because I’m not as skilled as some people. Some people are just more talented and quicker to react than I am. Some people have done far more dungeons or played games like this more often than I have, so they’re more skilled at it.

I’m still sensing the elitism here. Maybe that’s wrong of me, but I still think you’re being smug without having anything to fall back on in the way of information or validity.

In other news, I’ve recently taken to surfing the curling forums. I tell them I now attend curling matches and watch curling on TV, but I miss football, and ask them to make curling more like football.

I am generally met with resistance, but I am just trying to help them make their sport better.

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

souldonkey.9534:

Omega.5682:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ITT: Players bought an MMO with a well advertised PvP endgame, where skill shines over gear and were expecting something different.

What skill? How is there any player skill in this game? Please substantiate your claim.

Lol, why are you in every thread I’m reading trying to flex your “skills”. Seriously dude, you really need to get over yourself. I’ve found that people like you, people that flaunt how “skilled” they are, are often the least skilled in whatever they’re discussion. I’m sure you may think this game requires no skill and that you’re so amazing, but I very highly doubt that’s true.

I guess you can’t read. I said there are NO Player skill requirements in the game. Therefore, I did not contend to have any. The game does not even offer the ability to be skillful. I hope you can read one day, and deduce a logical argument. I hope!

It absolutely does require skill, and to imply it doesn’t is to imply that your are so skillful that it doesn’t require skill. Try doing explorable dungeons with 0 skill. It’s not going to happen.

You really want to say doing exp dungeons requires skill? Its the same as anything else. You go to the dungeon, you wipe, you learn, then you remember….. Not to mention, you just zerg each boss, avoid red circles on the ground, and of course play ranged.

please try again.

“and of course play ranged.”

Oh, my bad. I was wrong, you were right. You aren’t skilled. If this your mentality than you don’t actually have skill, so thanks for clearing that up.

Signed,
A melee explorable dungeon runner

And now, you are a hypocrite. Thank you!

Nope, I’m not claiming to be skilled. I’m just saying if you say you have to play ranged then obviously melee is too hard for you. It’s really not that hard, you just have to pay attention when to dodge. It takes skill, though, which is my point. The game takes skill, despite your claims that it does not.

You have two rock boulders starting this thread arguing on behalf of those too tired to do so anymore.

Also, doesn’t more content = more longevity of the game for everyone?

@ Moon

This is the last thing I’ll say on the matter since it is already off-topic.

If you were to stretch out “guess what” into a full sentence, you would get something like this: “Guess what I am doing.” In this scenario, you are not posing a question, you are stating a demand. You are, in essence, telling the person you are speaking or typing to that you wish for them to pose a conjecture as to what you are doing.

In your post, you say “guess what?” This means one of two things. The first being, you made a typo and really meant to type out “guess ‘what?’”. In this instance, you are effectively using the phrase to evoke the same reaction that a rhetorical question would. “What,” in this case, is being used as a question, but it is in the context of a request or demand, since it is paired with the action dictating “guess.” Since you are arguing against this possibility by insisting that you have, in fact, posed a question, I will assume this is not the case.

The other possibility is that you are pulling the Ron Burgundy here. “I’m Ron Burgundy?” should be a statement, but due to the “?” it becomes a question of realization. To the audience, Ron Burgundy appears shocked at the realization that he is Ron Burgundy. It sounds awkward because we know he is, and in spite of the comedic factor, he knows as well. By saying “guess what?” you are creating the same problem. You are asking the question as if you disbelieve what you have just learned or heard.

I don’t think the second option is what you meant, either. So, if it wasn’t option one (typo) and it wasn’t option two (a question rather than a rhetorical question), then you have most certainly misused the “?”, and the phrase “guess what?”, in your case, is not a question.

You can private message me if you want further explanations, so as to keep the thread on topic.

(I kind of miss the gear grind, too.)

Omega.5682:

AVHero.7382:

Omega.5682:

I just can’t believe people on this thread really want to make the argument that the Gw2 cosmetic grind model is different from the WoW gear grind model.

They are the same. It is not innovative.

It is different in one significant way; it does not impact your character’s effectiveness in a given scenario. In WoW, you HAVE TO grind gear to participate in raids, and then raid gear to participate in better raids, until you reach “Best in Slot.” You cannot ding 80, grab a starter set of gear, and run end-game content (this is slightly untrue at the moment, because Pandaria just came out, so end-game content is starter content, but you get what I mean). Getting the “Best” gear statistically in WoW is a HUGE grind. Getting the statistically best gear in GW is not. After you have the best stats, you are free to choose what you want to grind, whereas in WoW you have the ladder set out for you; grind this raid, then this one, then this one, etc. The freedom of choice is what makes it different.

Also, tokens that are redeemed for what you want. WoW has this in a sense with the tokens that drop from dungeons and raids, but they only by you a limited number of pieces. You still have to run dungeons and hope for a drop to get your Best in Slot. Guild Wars 2 diminishes the luck element severely.

So how much “fun” do you expect to have with your character who fundamentally stays the same for the entire time you play the game?

First of all, I’m playing more casual than others, so while I am 80, I have yet to acquire an exotic. I am still just enjoying the zones as I complete them.

However, I can’t say how much fun I will have at 80 once I get my max gear. I may not at all. In Guild Wars 1 it was the same. They were bragging rights and aesthetic grinds. What did I do? I had a max level PvE character of every profession, and I would play whatever I felt in the mood to play. I imagine this game will be similar. The thing is, the trip from 1 to 80 will take me longer than my one day grinds from 1 to 20, so I will be required to play longer to achieve just that goal. Which I am okay with. When I tire of my Mesmer, I go play another character. Since there is no emphasis on improving one character’s stats, I don’t feel restricted to that one character; I can play whatever I want.

I was simply addressing the grinding issue in my previous post, and how ANet DID change it. It won’t be for everyone. But there are other ways to have fun in this game. When I get bored of the game, I’ll stop playing it. Did that with Guild Wars 1. Since it is Buy to Play, I can come back whenever I want. That’s my prerogative.

Please ANET, don’t listen to this fool. He is a typical “me, me, me, give me what I want now” child who has walked into McDonalds and is demanding a Whopper. Gee, maybe you should have done your research before dropping $60 on a game that has, and for quite some time, advertised itself as having no gear grind. Yet, here you are demanding one. Seriously, L2read and do some research before wasting your money in the future. Oh…and go back to WoW. :P

Omega.5682:

I’m done arguing with fan boys. You’ll play for a total of 6 months then be bored out of your mind.

I only wish I could find out when you go back to WoW.

Wrong. I quit my last game because there was too many gear sets to grind and each one took too much time and money. I doubt I’m the only one who feels that way. Grind is not fun for me. Fine if it is for you, but I detest gear grinds, sorry. I’ll be here for a long time because this is just the kind of game I’m looking for. Why are you here if you hate it so much?