Guild Wars 2

As the player who does put in 30 hours of grinding and on and on, I love this game.

Malediktus.9250:

Power.2957:

Get a group together and see if you can get the fastest dungeon completion times. That’s something competitive to strive for!

http://gwscr.com/

Thats a joke right?
Impossible to compare times with so many exploits being around.

Think eventually they’ll have patched everything, the game is still new, patience :P

What the opening post calls a lack of “competition,” I read more as a lack of “status.” There’s plenty of player competition – the results just aren’t publicized.

Everyone know the french guy who hit 80 first after 70sth hours after release

I just want to remind everyone something:
1) the game is relatively new, there are still bug to fix, but there will be for sure more content released both pve and pvp wise next months.
2) I agree that they could add some content for hardcore player, but then will happen the same things that happen when fractal of the mist was realeased and still happen on the forum “blablabla why can’t I have ascended gear if I don’t want to do fotm? blablabla” and ended adding the token to buy ring before and with ascended gear as “daily reward” soon.
In my opinion the are 3 kind of player: hardcore player, casual player that are aware what casual mean, and casual player or bad player that we can call skritt because they want top end shiny gear with no effort, then if you want to add some hardcore content you will have other player complain about it, that they want it, but its’ too hard to obtain.
Other that that GW2 have a hard to balance feature like WvW. PvP is gear-balanced because everyone can have the same stat on the gear(and is the player’s skill to make the difference) but you can unlock different skins with reward. WvW instead is a PvP using PvE gear, then every pve hardcore gear improvement you add to the game will be a WvW imbalancing issue because many player will not have it and while the differences may be minimal there will always be people complaining that if they want to do WvW they should have the possibility to do it to full capacity without having to do pve and then you have to think a way to add the superior pve gear as a WvW reward.
And after that the skritt player will return complaining he want the shiny and after some times you will give him an easier way to obtain shiny, but then the hardcore player will feel less special and need more hardcore content…etc.
The solution to preserve gear balance could be add achievement something like an achievement/title(even hardcore player love shiny title on their head to show other their skill) for reach lv X in fractal of the mist for example, but I think that may come with time, the game still need many bug fix and balance issue between professions, when the game has reached an equilibrium everyone will have their shiny…probably.
In the meantime we can enjoy the content ANet will release next few months.

Lol. Carebears in GW2…. amazing MMOS like EQ2 and WoW CONTINUE to run for what? almost 10 years? as PAY to PLAY… because they realized that its hardcore gamers are the ones sticking around.

They make end game for them, because they know the hardcore gamer, the best of the population, is the one spending more time and effort than everyone else.

GW2 endgame is a joke. You hit 80, LITERALLY buy the best gear in the game for 20 gold, complete every dungeon half asleep,complete the map and then what? Make an alt? For what? to do the same thing again? GTFO.

Add some gear rewards for people that want them, its not gonna make a casuals gameplay any worse.

I crush FotM 30? Gimme better gear, so I can go and clear CoE 1-3 in 30 minutes. How does that affect a casual players game play? You can go still fail at dungeons, you can still craft, you can still do DE’s… Ill just be doing more.

End.

TWMagimay.9057:

Eviscera.9703:

Why wouldn’t they both be possible? If you read my post i said ‘’only cosmetic’’ And even that lacks in this game. The legendary weapons lack in the story part, and doesn’t feel ’’legendary’’ at all. This game should be for everyone from casual to competetive. And i think you misssunderstood me. I don’t want to be superior to others and have better gear then other people. I simply want a better reward system. Everything from good looking cosmetic gear to ladders to achievments that tells people who are the best PvPers or PvE:ers.

It’s simple, really. Casual players feel left out when placed in competitive environment. And since games are all about satisfying players, they tend to choose their direction. GW2 devs opted for casual-friendly possibly because casual players tend to be the people more likely to spend money on the game after the initial purchase(obvious reasons). It’s a very smart choice xD

The problem is, the game isn’t very casual really. How many casual players have you seen clear Arah exp? How many casual players with a legendary? How many casual players with 4000+ achievement points?

Any casual player can get to 80, but after that the game becomes very competitive and almost ridiculously hardcore.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

TWMagimay.9057:

Eviscera.9703:

Why wouldn’t they both be possible? If you read my post i said ‘’only cosmetic’’ And even that lacks in this game. The legendary weapons lack in the story part, and doesn’t feel ’’legendary’’ at all. This game should be for everyone from casual to competetive. And i think you misssunderstood me. I don’t want to be superior to others and have better gear then other people. I simply want a better reward system. Everything from good looking cosmetic gear to ladders to achievments that tells people who are the best PvPers or PvE:ers.

It’s simple, really. Casual players feel left out when placed in competitive environment. And since games are all about satisfying players, they tend to choose their direction. GW2 devs opted for casual-friendly possibly because casual players tend to be the people more likely to spend money on the game after the initial purchase(obvious reasons). It’s a very smart choice xD

The problem is, the game isn’t very casual really. How many casual players have you seen clear Arah exp? How many casual players with a legendary? How many casual players with 4000+ achievement points?

Any casual player can get to 80, but after that the game becomes very competitive and almost ridiculously hardcore.

OMG LOLOLOLOL. Ya your right hahaha. GW2 is so hardcore compared to… EVERY OTHER REAL MMO out there. EQ2, WoW, RIFT…. ya GW2 is pretty hardcore.

Best items in the game for the money you earned leveling to 80 THE SECOND you hit 80? Check

Dungeons so easy most PUGS can clear them while dying 4700 times each run? Check

No real advancement or gear progression because everythings got the same stats? Check.

hahahahhaah.

How many casual players do you know with dungeon master title? I rest my case

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

How many casual players do you know with dungeon master title? I rest my case

You rest your case? Because a vast majority of this game refuses to pay attention and learn how to defeat something? They go to COE3 and fail 50k times because they refuse to think? Good spot to rest your case.

The problem is, you ~ From just reading the short amount of posts I can tell the type of person you are; seen them in every single MMo from the original EQ through to, ahem GW2 and honestly no offense here, you are the type of person which is bad for the game.

This game is, and always will be a casual friendly game. This was marketed as a casual game – everything about this game is casual, a ‘carebear’ game and I hate using that term because its idiotic and stinks of elitism. Once anet betrayed its original manifesto and headed down a completely different path, all hell broke loose – you honestly think, anet is going to risk another ‘storm’ like before?

CoE is a prime example of a nearly unpuggable instance – mostly from my point of view, sloppy design. Honestly, you could debate this games flaws until doomsday, but I’ve wasted enough time today on forum banter.

You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
Just substitute ‘fool’ for ‘please’ and you have a famous quote attributed to Abraham Lincoln.

It’s not humanly possible for any company to satisfy everybody when it comes to anything – least of all a video game.
It must be really difficult to get the balance just right between hard-core and casual gaming. Casual gamers are probably in the majority and I guess that is why the GW2 feels/is biased towards them. We live in the real world (sadly I sometimes feel) where everything comes down to ‘God Profit’ where companies shut down a perfectly good game simply because it isn’t making enough money re CoH. Maybe…they want that playerbase to buy GW2. Sorry I’m such a cynic!

Good luck and Happy Gaming!

ATTHWSM.7840:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

TWMagimay.9057:

Eviscera.9703:

Why wouldn’t they both be possible? If you read my post i said ‘’only cosmetic’’ And even that lacks in this game. The legendary weapons lack in the story part, and doesn’t feel ’’legendary’’ at all. This game should be for everyone from casual to competetive. And i think you misssunderstood me. I don’t want to be superior to others and have better gear then other people. I simply want a better reward system. Everything from good looking cosmetic gear to ladders to achievments that tells people who are the best PvPers or PvE:ers.

It’s simple, really. Casual players feel left out when placed in competitive environment. And since games are all about satisfying players, they tend to choose their direction. GW2 devs opted for casual-friendly possibly because casual players tend to be the people more likely to spend money on the game after the initial purchase(obvious reasons). It’s a very smart choice xD

The problem is, the game isn’t very casual really. How many casual players have you seen clear Arah exp? How many casual players with a legendary? How many casual players with 4000+ achievement points?

Any casual player can get to 80, but after that the game becomes very competitive and almost ridiculously hardcore.

OMG LOLOLOLOL. Ya your right hahaha. GW2 is so hardcore compared to… EVERY OTHER REAL MMO out there. EQ2, WoW, RIFT…. ya GW2 is pretty hardcore.

Best items in the game for the money you earned leveling to 80 THE SECOND you hit 80? Check

Dungeons so easy most PUGS can clear them while dying 4700 times each run? Check

No real advancement or gear progression because everythings got the same stats? Check.

hahahahhaah.

O dear.. everyone pay homage cos Mr. Ubersauce Iamdabestest has entered the discussion.
This kind of imput makes me think, silly kid with no clue shouting loud to make him/her feel included…. reality however is likey much much different and probably looses every PvP match, is one of those that continually fails jump puzzles and wipes spectatularly on most veteran engagements, with never a hope of or understanding of how to build toons that can survive long enough to see Champs or Bosses laugh loudly when he/she falls in a single hit… but hey I guess we can all wish we were something else sometimes, keep dreaming though cos that big shiny chest is waiting for you at the end of the rainbow… honest

I will however pay homage to you cos you made me smile momentarily…. eerrmmm or was that just wind

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

The problem is, you ~ From just reading the short amount of posts I can tell the type of person you are; seen them in every single MMo from the original EQ through to, ahem GW2 and honestly no offense here, you are the type of person which is bad for the game.

This game is, and always will be a casual friendly game. This was marketed as a casual game – everything about this game is casual, a ‘carebear’ game and I hate using that term because its idiotic and stinks of elitism. Once anet betrayed its original manifesto and headed down a completely different path, all hell broke loose – you honestly think, anet is going to risk another ‘storm’ like before?

CoE is a prime example of a nearly unpuggable instance – mostly from my point of view, sloppy design. Honestly, you could debate this games flaws until doomsday, but I’ve wasted enough time today on forum banter.

Dude. So leave it casual, and end stuff for the best players that want end game. NOBODY gets this… how do raids and content that end game players want affect a casuals gameplay? They dont. If you dont wanna run that zone, then dont.

Raided EQ2 for 6? years… the casuals did what they did, the hardcore did what they did. Guess what bro? After almost 9 years, its still making money with MONTHLY SUBS… omgosh.

ATTHWSM.7840:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

The problem is, you ~ From just reading the short amount of posts I can tell the type of person you are; seen them in every single MMo from the original EQ through to, ahem GW2 and honestly no offense here, you are the type of person which is bad for the game.

This game is, and always will be a casual friendly game. This was marketed as a casual game – everything about this game is casual, a ‘carebear’ game and I hate using that term because its idiotic and stinks of elitism. Once anet betrayed its original manifesto and headed down a completely different path, all hell broke loose – you honestly think, anet is going to risk another ‘storm’ like before?

CoE is a prime example of a nearly unpuggable instance – mostly from my point of view, sloppy design. Honestly, you could debate this games flaws until doomsday, but I’ve wasted enough time today on forum banter.

Dude. So leave it casual, and end stuff for the best players that want end game. NOBODY gets this… how do raids and content that end game players want affect a casuals gameplay? They dont. If you dont wanna run that zone, then dont.

Raided EQ2 for 6? years… the casuals did what they did, the hardcore did what they did. Guess what bro? After almost 9 years, its still making money with MONTHLY SUBS… omgosh.

Will you get off your high horse already? You act like you are Da Awesomesauce Pro-ness and every peasant should bow down to your every whim, because you are HARDCORE!!1!!

I don’t want a game where I cannot experience content because I have a life. Fractals are actually a brilliant idea, because I can experience them on low levels, while those wanting Uberness Challenge can do the high levels.

Yes, GW2 caters to the majority of the players, who are casuals. You might not like that because it does not feed your ego, but you are part of a minority, albeit a very loud and often rude minority.

And as long as you treat your fellow players like you do now, you are only poisoning the community.

ATTHWSM.7840:

Lol. Carebears in GW2…. amazing MMOS like EQ2 and WoW CONTINUE to run for what? almost 10 years? as PAY to PLAY… because they realized that its hardcore gamers are the ones sticking around.

They make end game for them, because they know the hardcore gamer, the best of the population, is the one spending more time and effort than everyone else.

GW2 endgame is a joke. You hit 80, LITERALLY buy the best gear in the game for 20 gold, complete every dungeon half asleep,complete the map and then what? Make an alt? For what? to do the same thing again? GTFO.

Add some gear rewards for people that want them, its not gonna make a casuals gameplay any worse.

I crush FotM 30? Gimme better gear, so I can go and clear CoE 1-3 in 30 minutes. How does that affect a casual players game play? You can go still fail at dungeons, you can still craft, you can still do DE’s… Ill just be doing more.

End.

While your list of “hardcore” MMOs is very impressive, and I’m sure your experience in the genre is equally something to behold, I would have to argue one of your points if I may?

If you get better rewards for doing your “hardcore” gaming, by slicing down that scripted dragon, well, eventually you could, accidently of course, end up in WvW, defending your realm from an oncoming horde of actual free-thinking gamers. There is also a chance, that you and I could meet while roaming the back roads trying to help our own realm, by perhaps trying to get some supplies to defend one of our towers.

After me, in my casual, carebear playmode, beat you senseless while you weild your “uberswordofBBqSaUceneSS”, you could very well come back to these very forums and have (another) rant how you need a brand new “swordofevVEnmoReBbQsauCiness” or perhaps that my class is OP!!!! and needs a NERf!1!! because there is no way someone as “hardcore” such as yourself should ever lose to a casual carebear such as well, me..

So if you wouldn’t mind sir, could you spare us causal, carebears your hardcore wraith of awesomeness, and perhaps leave us pathetic dregs of MMO gaming a single non-hardcore game, so that we may have a place to sing kumbyayah together?

ummm…

End?

(is that how i do it?)

Shakki.3219:

Everyone know the french guy who hit 80 first after 70sth hours after release

Probably more like hardly anyone knows who got the first 80. I’ve been here since before launch, and this is the first hint I have seen about the first 80.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

The problem is, the game isn’t very casual really. How many casual players have you seen clear Arah exp? How many casual players with a legendary? How many casual players with 4000+ achievement points?

Any casual player can get to 80, but after that the game becomes very competitive and almost ridiculously hardcore.

I don’t see what clearing Arah has to do with being casual or hardcore. You don’t need to be in a race or play 10h/day to be a good player. My best Arah party was with 3 casual players and we got p3 done in under 1 hour, Lupi killed on first try(was their first time), p1 took us 1.5h even though none of us have done it before.
Legendary is a long term goal. It’s smth a casual player sort of does on the side(as in, don’t sell the stuff you’d need for it.
Achievement points at their current state are useless and not an indicator of, well, anything. You can get all of those just from salvaging(look at the guy with 15 000+ points…).

What is so “hardcore”? Simin? Yeah, I’d give you that one if the fight wasn’t 90% luck(1 ball anyone?). Apart from that, it’s fairly easy, you just need to get lucky(which is what I pretty much hate about GW2).

What are you competing for?

ATTHWSM.7840:

Lol. Carebears in GW2…. amazing MMOS like EQ2 and WoW CONTINUE to run for what? almost 10 years? as PAY to PLAY… because they realized that its hardcore gamers are the ones sticking around.

Almost, but no. It’s the hardcore gamers that pay a monthly fee. Casual gamers don’t pay a sub for a game they play less than the time they spend at the gym.

They make end game for them, because they know the hardcore gamer, the best of the population, is the one spending more time and effort than everyone else.

Indeed, and casual gamers are the ones who pay much more over the long run, because they’ll still be playing when the hardcore have left for other grinders. It is why LotRO as a successful sub game went f2p because casuals are willing to spend far more on cash shops, than elitists on subs. F2P games make far more revenue per casual player than WoW does per hardcore elitist.

So the worst of the population is scared away. Big deal …

GW2 endgame is a joke. You hit 80, LITERALLY buy the best gear in the game for 20 gold, complete every dungeon half asleep,complete the map and then what? Make an alt? For what? to do the same thing again? GTFO.

After spending 3-5 months doing all that while having a full time job and supporting a loving family … sure I’m prepared to do it over. Why not?

Add some gear rewards for people that want them, its not gonna make a casuals gameplay any worse.

As a matter of fact … it does.

I crush FotM 30? Gimme better gear, so I can go and clear CoE 1-3 in 30 minutes. How does that affect a casual players game play? You can go still fail at dungeons, you can still craft, you can still do DE’s… Ill just be doing more.

And that’s not fair. Why should you, as a elitist grinder, be able to earn more in this game, than me? There’s absolutely no good or honest reason. With experience I can steamroll dungeons in exotics … apparently you need tier 100 ascended because you fail at AC story mode …

Kasparov made chess into his job. He’s the best player in the world, he spend hundreds of hours on that game. And yet he still plays with a single queen. Rather, if I played against him, he would give up his queen instead of asking for 4 queens like you do.

I play this game as a hobby. A past time. I’m prepared to spend hundreds of euros on it during it’s lifetime. I won’t if elitists like you make it worse by introducing gear threadmills, elitism and the like.

Dengeon leader-board?

Would probably look something like -

Arah Dungeon:
Fastest time 00:00:01.
Leader of group: Mr IdOnTh4x.

PvP leader board?
Top guild:- WE pwn nubs.
About the guild – We use exploits and hacks, pay off or threaten members of other guilds we face, in order to win. And in non-competitive spvp we go out of our way to ensure that others don’t stand a chance and feel like noobs by having at least 3 of our team members on each side. Anyone who talks about this will be ostrasised by the community.

PVe achivement for most node gatherings? Earning the title, I’m so much better than you it hurts. Mr IrunLotsObots.?

If you don’t find the game challenging what’s the point in competition, surly how competitve something is is considered by the skill it requires to enjoy such an activity, with or without players of varying skill level. Not the need to have a score board showing you can play in an untaural way so you can feel like you were just awarded a shiney star sticker for being a good boy..

If the internet was a relaxed place and wasn’t used as some kind of stick to poke people in the eye, I really woulden’t see a problem with it. But I am yet to see a leaderboard on-line that really means anything as far as the individuals are concerned, and never represent how good a player is at playing the game the way someone else would, let alone the relivance of titles or “achivements”, making it kinda pointless..

Who killed the most Moa’s in wvw last Tuesday? Who really cares? But if you want a grand title for one of your characters, feel free to use MoaSlayer at the start, end or middle of your name.

Infact I might go make a warrior called “Greatest PVPer” and create a guild called MoaSlayers, so I can expect to be abandoned by my team and targeted by the other, on mass… If that’s not competition, I don’t know what is..

Sorry if this wasn’t helpful..

I just fear the game will slowly die without content for more dedicated (hardcore) gamers, we need raiding and it should be filthy hard with great looking bind on equip items. That way the casuals and terrabads that dont want to or cant raid can buy their new shinies from the market for the coins they go doing their casual stuff.

Just have to say I fully agree with OP, this game totally lacks challenge. Sometimes I feel like playing Sims, people melt down when they hear about new Quaggan backpack, and still less and less care about gameplay. If I could take the time back, I would not purchase GW2, but it’s at least a good lesson for me.

marnick.4305:

Kasparov made chess into his job. He’s the best player in the world, he spend hundreds of hours on that game. And yet he still plays with a single queen. Rather, if I played against him, he would give up his queen instead of asking for 4 queens like you do.

I play this game as a hobby. A past time. I’m prepared to spend hundreds of euros on it during it’s lifetime. I won’t if elitists like you make it worse by introducing gear threadmills, elitism and the like.

You man, are a real sir.
Agree on all.
/bow

I don’t want a lot of things that are in this game to be in it. But if there’s one thing I’m happy there is little of in this game it’s “competition”

Sorry but this is silly, introducing threadmill would make it worse for you? How exactly? You can still play your casual way. Or you’re afraid you won’t be on the same level anymore? Well, people that work for something should get more than those that do nothing. Lesson from real life.

This is my “plan”

1. level each profession, unlocking all skills
2. fit each toon with exotic
3. fit each toon with 20 slot boxes
4. fill up fines/craftables bank
5. do achievements
6. go for legendary weapon
7. twiddle thumbs

ATTHWSM.7840:

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

The problem is, you ~ From just reading the short amount of posts I can tell the type of person you are; seen them in every single MMo from the original EQ through to, ahem GW2 and honestly no offense here, you are the type of person which is bad for the game.

This game is, and always will be a casual friendly game. This was marketed as a casual game – everything about this game is casual, a ‘carebear’ game and I hate using that term because its idiotic and stinks of elitism. Once anet betrayed its original manifesto and headed down a completely different path, all hell broke loose – you honestly think, anet is going to risk another ‘storm’ like before?

CoE is a prime example of a nearly unpuggable instance – mostly from my point of view, sloppy design. Honestly, you could debate this games flaws until doomsday, but I’ve wasted enough time today on forum banter.

Dude. So leave it casual, and end stuff for the best players that want end game. NOBODY gets this… how do raids and content that end game players want affect a casuals gameplay? They dont. If you dont wanna run that zone, then dont.

Raided EQ2 for 6? years… the casuals did what they did, the hardcore did what they did. Guess what bro? After almost 9 years, its still making money with MONTHLY SUBS… omgosh.

You are just using the word hardcore, without know what an hardcore gamer is.

talking about simple numbers.
you have 2 variables: difficulty level, item power.

lets suppose to set theese variables at 10. So if you do a simple calculation like difficulty\item power, you obtain an average difficulty of 1.

ok set the difficulty at 20, and let the item power at 10. with the same calculation the average difficulty will become 2 (20\10)

With a gear threadmill, when you raise difficulty you raise the item power too, so if you set difficulty on 20, you set the item power on 20, and the average difficulty will remain at 1!

So only with some elementary math, i just show you that your argument is invalid if you think to be an hardcore gamer, because the HARDCORE gamer want an higher average difficulty!

Try get all WvWvW titles. I have hard time even get one 28k/250k.

Spiky.8403:

Sorry but this is silly, introducing threadmill would make it worse for you? How exactly? You can still play your casual way. Or you’re afraid you won’t be on the same level anymore? Well, people that work for something should get more than those that do nothing. Lesson from real life.

This is why hard-cores can’t be catered to. The gear treadmill opens the gate to a culture of elitism. I would rather not hear words like “scrub” and “sub-optimal” being thrown around this game, when they don’t need to be. Treadmills affect everyone, because it excludes willing participants from content they want to play.

The saddest part is, it’s not the true elite gamer that ruins it. They are 1-2% of the population, and are happy to never talk to anyone but the 24 guys they run content with. It’s the other, much larger part of the population that ruins it. The part of the player base that emulates the true elite, but has to pick up randoms to fill raids, or starts their own progression guild after watching some Tankspot videos. It invariably ends up with the worst part of the population looking down their noses at everyone else.

Omniwar.4985:

I just fear the game will slowly die without content for more dedicated (hardcore) gamers, we need raiding and it should be filthy hard with great looking bind on equip items. That way the casuals and terrabads that dont want to or cant raid can buy their new shinies from the market for the coins they go doing their casual stuff.

Curious, what exactly makes you more dedicated (hardcore), raiding scripted events, than me raiding the borderlands for the good of my entire server? I play casually, and probably do more for my server than you ever would hiding in a dungeon with your spreadsheets, youtube, and your “dedication”. Maybe its because i perhaps play a little less than you that I’m casual? Maybe its because I find raiding the most monotonous aspect of MMOs ever created that I’m “terrabad”?

Its just boggles the mind how any MMO ever survived without raiding, eh? Since this one will “die” if it weren’t to get it.

Its post like yours that turn me off to an aspect of MMOs that i already don’t care for.

Reloading.3260:

The real problem is that most games these days are trying to target such a wide demographic that making them too challenging will affect this.

Little Suzie Q who bought the game as a glorified dress up doesn’t want challenge.

Look at all the posts complaining about the difficulty of Orr. Look at whats about to happen to one of the only slightly challenging open world pve areas in the game in response.

Right now there’s a thread in the dungeons forum by a guy complaining that he cant finish a single dungeon and knows of hundreds of people who have quit the game because they’re too difficult. Wonder what’s going to happen next…

The problem with not having many tiers of challenging gameplay is that your game then has to cater to the lowest common denominator.

Fractals is the best example of what can be done, simply providing tiers where the first one is fairly available . I would consider fractal 1 anyone can do same for fractal 2, and by fractal 2 you can experience all the content.

What the opening post calls a lack of “competition,” I read more as a lack of “status.” There’s plenty of player competition – the results just aren’t publicized.

On the same note competition can be inspired by have those results easily available, can be hard to compete if you dont know what goal your competing for or what is actually considered the best.

I agree that they could add some content for hardcore player, but then will happen the same things that happen when fractal of the mist was realeased and still happen on the forum “blablabla why can’t I have ascended gear if I don’t want to do fotm? blablabla” and ended adding the token to buy ring before and with ascended gear as “daily reward” soon.

There is nothing saying they have to add another tier of gear, all you have to do is drop Ascended level gear in terms of stats but provide a new resistance for that new area. So there is vertical progression within the dungeon itself but not outside of it.

WoW CONTINUE to run for what? almost 10 years? as PAY to PLAY… because they realized that its hardcore gamers are the ones sticking around.

While they stick around they are hardly the ones footing the bill, casuals make up most of WoW. Look at all the casual things to do in WoW added recently, LFR, only two tiers of active gear, Pet Battles, and dailys providing almost raid quality gear. WoW has done a lot of things to help casual players as they are the life blood.

The flip side of that the hardcore community while much smaller is much more vocal and helps promote the game.

ArenaNet is a rather PvP oriented group (going by the trend in GW, the updates will be prioritised thus: PvP, then PvE, then WvW). They had a fantastic system in GW, they just need time to make it as fantastic in GW2. They had a MUCH MUCH bigger plan for PvE in GW2 than GW, which is currently hurting their focus on PvP, but soon enough, they’ll have probably all the content they intended to have in PvE out so they can really focus on PvP (and I guarantee you PvP updates will be coming, while PvE ones are).

Also, wait a little for people to get their characters/more of their characters to level 80. I only intend on PvP once I know the profession from going through PvE to level 80 with it and get all the skills (yeah, I know you level up, but PvE is a bit of training wheels, if you will).

Plus, wait until some people get their fix of WvW before they go to PvP. You go from PvE -> WvW -> PvP. In GW I used FA and JQ (the closest thing to WvW) for awhile before going to PvP as it was a training ground. Unfortunately I came in the game too late to really get into PvP. This time’s going to be different though.

Obviously these people I mentioned aren’t the “hardcore” people you want, but they’ll certianly add variety to PvP.

To be completly honest with you this game lacks competition thats true.I thik i might consider myself hardcore enough to say that there is simply no real PvE at the moment.All dungeons are pugable,some of them were soloed some are farmed in few minutes.Even truly casual players can do Arah if they are willing to go in and watch some youtube videos of bosses-yes you might wipe once but holy moly who cares?The fact that you wipe doesnt mean its hard….everyone can do them with someone experienced leading party.You dont even need exotics it just takes more time…
My point is,PvE here-meaning dungeons/events/farming.Is not challange at all.If you think that farming something for xxx hours is a challange-Legendary,you are wrong…

PvP-no rating,no ladder,no whatsoever-says it all.

Now before you strike with your mighty “you get it wrong-hardcore get out”
I get it.This game isnt supposed to be hard.Its nice,relaxing,good looking,friendly community all around….there is nothing wrong with this….but…
Game isnt supposed to be this easy.You can argue that everyone has the right to see the content-ye ofcourse!Everyone should be equal in terms of gear-no more treadmills-ye ofcourse!But not everyone is supposed to have dungeon armor with zero effort put in-no im not counting joining CoF group as an effort.Same goes for CoE,Arah whatever you want….at the end of the day it is like that.Ok all good everybody is still happy.

Getting to my point of solution…
Hardcore players whine that its easy-need leaderboards/world firsts/treadmill..well i dont think so,we need rating for sPvP+spectator/arenas but that has nothing to do with hardcore vs casual.
Solution in my opinion lies within new achiev. system.New unique tittles for both casual and hardcore players.Dont need new gear,dont need sparkling sword of toothfairy from hell.Simple tittle under the name would do-now im not talking grinding titles such as “Slayer” or WvW titles.They have very little to do with skill.
Titles such as for example-its example ok dont get mad-“Sadistic”-Kill Lupi in white gear or without any gear at all,“Bane of rabbits”-kill xxx rabbits in one hit and perform wild asura dancing party on their corpses-or whatever works for you.

Hardcore people would get some recognition,casual people would get their own titles for whatever they want.Dont need any new content to be added nor new gear type.Just another little cosmetic thing.
Called for progression/competition-here you got it some trully hard things may come out of this.Called for advantage over enemies so you can solo 1vxxx in WvW?Too bad you need to get better….

Player wants certain title he works for it without exception,all the titles in game are grind heavy right now not skill based….

In future expansion i think they will go back to normal mmo features because now at 80 only thing left is to forge your legendary.
as a former 8y wow player this game lacks in armor variety for transmog and the weapons too, there are no no useless items (like roses, hats, etc..), in wow i was enjoying farming mounts with my friends, BG’s were great, here i dont even play spvp because maps are little and games are quick(i like longer fights), wvw is good but zergish play is not my style. I like skills system and traits, graphic is awesome but often feeling there is not much left then farm gold for my legendary.

I think at this point a clarification on what the “hardcore comunity” want is needed.
If it’s more content, they will come, ANet is releasing a huge patch today and in the next 2 months with enough content to be compared to an expansion, ,and sure more content will come with time; btw I don’t know eq2, never played it, but even in WoW many and many months passed betweed release often 6+ month, while Anet is doing an excellent job proposing some kind of event each month, sure sometimes are just fun event or events related to holidays but it still require hours of work.
As for gear progressing I don’t care, to say the truth one of the few things I hoped when I bought GW2 was that I don’t need to farm equipment, also probably I liked more as it was in GW1 without stats at all on gear, just different set with different appearance, if you wanted to improve your spell you have to use rune and insigna.
And I hope they never add some other “tier” of gear like ascended, but I understand the need to introduce it together with the agony mechanic, because if the gear won’t improve but there will be harder challenge it would be more harcore than is wow where as the raid progression go on, the equipment is always more powerfull making all the challenge less and less hardcore untill is not harder than a 5 man dungeon.
Fractal of the mist to me is a perfect example of hardcore dungeon, the first 9 levels are done so you can undestand the mechanic of the various maps and what’s the best way to go through it, from level 10 you start to face agony and start to stack agony resistance to survive, past level 30-40 AR won’t save you but boss are even harder to fight and the gear is the same so no increased hp, no increased damage, just you(and your team) have to survive the best you can because often if one member become downed it is very likely that other member will die trying to revive him. To me that is much more hardcore and competitive that the need of more gear.
I must say, however, that I’d like if all set become craftable, as it is now many “sets” like soldier, rabid, celestial…etc are not craftable and while are still available on armor through dungeon token, is not the same for jewel, but ANet said they’re working on it.
If they want to add some kind of achievement/title or some other kind of acknowledgment I don’t really care but I can undestand many people do.

Eviscera.9703:

This is my personal opinion, don’t bash on me. If anyone disagrees with me, atleast be civil. This game has ZERO competition for hardcore gamers. There is no real ’’goal’’ to acomplish, It’s like Anet said ‘’ Here are kittenloads of stuff to do, now do whatever you want’’ But it doesn’t work like that. People want a purpose to play and a goal to aim for, to obtain the things that makes them stand out. Even if it’s only cosmetic.

1. Let’s start with the PvE: Dungeons doesn’t even have the rewards that everyone wants. I’m not talking about items. I’m talking about achievements. Like the ‘’Worlds first 80’’ or ‘’Servers first whatever’’ Those are the things people want.
Let’s take sports as an example. We’re in the Beijing olympics, Mens 100m Finals. Every sprinter has been training day in and day out since they were 10 years old. They gave up all the fun in life just to accomplish this world record. And then suddenly someone breaks the world record and the whole crowd goes crazy, his name is printed in every newspaper and gets famous all around the world.
Now let’s go back to Guild Wars 2. The hardcore players that break records, the famous gamers that puts in heart & dedication into the games they play. 30 hours of straight grinding just to accomplish something spectacular. And what do they get in return? Absolutely NOTHING. This is why all the famous players quit. The famous gamers that stream and advertise your game gets nothing in return. This is why Guild wars 2 is dead on twitch… No competition at all.

2. The PvP: Like come on…. It’s like you Anet released a game that wasn’t even finished. There is absolutely no competition in the PvP. No ladders, No achievments. No one knows whos the best PvPers, because there is no system that tells you that. The PvP lacks variety. No Arenas, No deathmatches… What the hell?! The game needs INGAME ladders… Not the useless ones posted on forums. The people that actually play your game to the max and stream everyday to give to the community gets nothing in return. Why Anet? Just why?

Instead of fixing these issues, Anet implents useless new items that no one wants. Useless stuff in the gem store. Rushes into fixing stuff problems, that end up getting even more kittened up. If Arena net really wants to make this game an E-sport you guys have to top it up a notch. Because this game lacks basic features.

Anyway, Don’t get me wrong. I love this game and i think it’s the best MMORPG on the market. But it still lacks basic features that makes the game interesting to play. This is just constructive criticism.

The GW franchise has never been nor ever will be about competition. If you want competition go back to wow where it is apparent in every aspect of the game.

tic.7425:

Omniwar.4985:

I just fear the game will slowly die without content for more dedicated (hardcore) gamers, we need raiding and it should be filthy hard with great looking bind on equip items. That way the casuals and terrabads that dont want to or cant raid can buy their new shinies from the market for the coins they go doing their casual stuff.

Curious, what exactly makes you more dedicated (hardcore), raiding scripted events, than me raiding the borderlands for the good of my entire server? I play casually, and probably do more for my server than you ever would hiding in a dungeon with your spreadsheets, youtube, and your “dedication”. Maybe its because i perhaps play a little less than you that I’m casual? Maybe its because I find raiding the most monotonous aspect of MMOs ever created that I’m “terrabad”?

Its just boggles the mind how any MMO ever survived without raiding, eh? Since this one will “die” if it weren’t to get it.

Its post like yours that turn me off to an aspect of MMOs that i already don’t care for.

Not everyone likes to play in a padded pvp enviroment that has no risk factor what so ever, it doesnt get your heart racing since when you die you will just respawn or be revived and that group of people you just managed to kill had no meaning what so ever. It is just unscripted and glorified pve in my opinion.

Let me ask you this, why and how would your gaming experiance be hurt in any way if the developers would cater to a huge market which is raiders? It is after all content you do not touch on, but may very well be vital for your game to excist because without the hordes that love a good dungeon the game looses income and without income the game closes down.

Its all business and I played for well worth the money I put in the game, but I did all the content I wanted to do so I took a break and still on a break and will be on a break until they “fix” dungeon mechanics and add in the element of teamplay in pve where you would have to be apart of a guild that works on clearing raid content.

Game is good in many ways and I would love to play it, but when it comes to pve this is a single player game where you can go through all the content in matter of days just by grouping up with random people. SO, ANet wont be seeing a single cent from me unless the game has what I want, good pve that requires people to team up to beat the content.

You wanting pvp does NOT mean I cant have my pve, but excluding one from the equation can mean the game might be on life support or even just die out completely.

I am not asking for better gear, one of the things I loved about this game is that I didnt have to grind gear X to tackle boss Z, now the game doesnt even have that.

If you played Gw1, and really any game for that matter, most of the gear that people grind for are simply cosmetic. It would certainly be unfair for the developers of a game to make casual players not be able to compete on the same level as those who devote hours a day to a game….where is the logic in that?

Grinding for cosmetics is honestly the way to go as long as the cosmetics are cool enough. And tbh, legendaries are pretty dang cool.

That being said, if you want a game where you can grind and grind and actually do get better gear, the go play runescape…. it’s a dead game, but it does have gear that’s better than others even at the same level. And tbh..that’s probably why its dead.

wildcode.5403:

This is my “plan”

1. level each profession, unlocking all skills
2. fit each toon with exotic
3. fit each toon with 20 slot boxes
4. fill up fines/craftables bank
5. do achievements
6. go for legendary weapon
7. twiddle thumbs

^ That.

1. 2 classes left to go
2. 4 left
3. CBA, I have a 1 man guild with 2 bank tabs.
4. already did, sold them for other stuff
5. 4300 pts atm (don’t care about salvaging my way to 10k, in fact i think repeatable, daily included should give zero pts or a different type actually).
6. Kitten their refusal to fix precursors before SH (it can be done and easy) – need only Dusk atm. Also not stopping at 1 weapon, going for about 13 to 16 out of the 20.
7. No thumb twiddling, ever, got to also get 100% on all 8 alts (4 left), also new content until I’m done.

It’s a different kind of hardcore that doesn’t involve depending on 9 other ppl (raids) and getting world 1st on some random HC raid boss, it’s fine.

im more about “challenge” than farming achievement personally.

gw2 levelling up was great.

but now, aside from FotM, i cant seem to find the right challenge anywhere else.
(dungeon explore need a tweak, they just feel a bit kitten, with one shot type mechanics or facerolling).

world bosses?
omg.. i can do them eyes closed. (but it looks pretty so i open them).

gw2 as tremendous potential for highly challenging pve content.
a dungeon could be an “assault the keep” instance, with randomly patrolling enemies and boss spawn point.

game is amazing, but pump up more fractal quality stuff! this is where the pve shines for me.
(and make them more lore related make them feel like part of the world… omg those fractals are so bland and unrelated to actual and recent lore… totally feel like a mini game inside gw2… with that consortium pumping out gates to bits of dungeons… lame)

The real reason for the lack of competition is that GW2 is not a MMO. Like many other online games these days. So, ppl who want to play RPG and to lie themselves they are online with other ppl, like it. But simple truth is that most of you play it alone, cause game is made to be played alone. If you ever played a real MMO like Lineage 2, you will know the difference. And it is huge. In most MMO you shall grind like hell, but it’s worth it. Cause at the and you have very social, very competitive and very interactive game in which you play with other ppl, not with mobs.

Spiky.8403:

Sorry but this is silly, introducing threadmill would make it worse for you? How exactly? You can still play your casual way. Or you’re afraid you won’t be on the same level anymore? Well, people that work for something should get more than those that do nothing. Lesson from real life.

People who “work” should, but you don’t want to tell me that spending your time grinding stuff in video games is work? This is a game, still. And even the most hardcore-raid wouldn’t turn the stuff you do here into something usefull in terms of real life. It’s the same pathetic, silly way to spend your time like for any casual gamer out there.

That beeing said, I would not mind about rankings and cosmetic stuff for people who consider themselves “hard-core” as long as it doesn’t influence my own gameplay.

The OP is mostly correct in that there is no competition PvE wise. WvW and TPvP there’s rankings but I don’t know how much that’s followed. It doesn’t even seen like a big deal. Whether this lack of competition is a good thing or not is subjective. As far as the famous players go, I’ve never wanted to play a game because I saw someone in a video do really well at PvP or PvE.

I do think though that there can be room for both casual and competitive players. I think it’s possible, but not sure how. For me, there’s 2 hurdles to overcome: the player’s sense of entitlement and coming up with a system that isn’t terrible.

WoW’s “system”, its way with handling this, is terrible: kill a boss or kill a more difficult version of the same boss for a touch better loot. I really don’t want to fight the same boss again – tougher version. It makes that game feel stale. There has to be a better way of catering to both casual and hardcore players. But I don’t know what it is – haven’t really thought about it much either.

The other part is this sense of entitlement that casual players have. Not all., but most. This is the player who sees a fantastic looking sword and wants one too. Well used to be that in order to get the fantastic sword, you had to meet a goal. If A then B (A being the goal and B being the fantastic sword). The casuals couldn’t do A for a number of reasons (time being a big one) but still wanted B. So the devs create multiple ways of getting B. Now everyone has B which makes makes Mr. Hardcore Gamer annoyed. The problem for Mr. Hardcore Gamer is there’s a lot more Casuals out there than you. So if game developers are smart they’re going to cater to the larger audience of course. That’s why WoW is the way it is now. That’s why Trammel was introduced in UO. The reason why this is a hurdle is because if ANet ever develops gear catered to Mr. Hardcore Gamer you’ll get the Casuals in an uproar (especially here) and linking whatever manifesto ANet released. As long as that sense of entitlement is there, whatever system ANet wants to put in to cater to both crowds won’t work.

To make it work the Causals need to remember the if A then B logic. If no A then no B. Instead there’s a lot of other b’s out there. But not B. Of course the B is the one they want – because it’s better. That smells of competition to me.

For the record, this is coming from a Causal who used to be somewhat Hardcore.

I love these “hardcore” vs “casual” arguments, esp from the hardcore side. Always makes me laugh. Both sides feel they like they have some sort of entitlement or deserve one thing over another group of players.

Now, with this e-sport stuff, will someone PLEASE tell me how online gaming and sport belong in the same sentence. I grew up playing multiple sports, playing on school and select teams, and NEVER once have I ever been able to compare sports to online gaming. The ONLY thing that can come close is the competition level, but that’s about it.

its like curling bro.

its “mental”, mostly.

I play about 2 hours per day, when I play. Now I don’t play games at all. So am I hardcore player? Cause I think GW2 is very easy, boring, unsocial and noncompetitive game. For me PvE is pointless. I like to play with other players. So what a player am I?

Eviscera.9703:

This is my personal opinion, don’t bash on me. If anyone disagrees with me, atleast be civil. This game has ZERO competition for hardcore gamers. There is no real ’’goal’’ to acomplish, It’s like Anet said ‘’ Here are kittenloads of stuff to do, now do whatever you want’’ But it doesn’t work like that. People want a purpose to play and a goal to aim for, to obtain the things that makes them stand out. Even if it’s only cosmetic.

1. Let’s start with the PvE: Dungeons doesn’t even have the rewards that everyone wants. I’m not talking about items. I’m talking about achievements. Like the ‘’Worlds first 80’’ or ‘’Servers first whatever’’ Those are the things people want.
Let’s take sports as an example. We’re in the Beijing olympics, Mens 100m Finals. Every sprinter has been training day in and day out since they were 10 years old. They gave up all the fun in life just to accomplish this world record. And then suddenly someone breaks the world record and the whole crowd goes crazy, his name is printed in every newspaper and gets famous all around the world.
Now let’s go back to Guild Wars 2. The hardcore players that break records, the famous gamers that puts in heart & dedication into the games they play. 30 hours of straight grinding just to accomplish something spectacular. And what do they get in return? Absolutely NOTHING. This is why all the famous players quit. The famous gamers that stream and advertise your game gets nothing in return. This is why Guild wars 2 is dead on twitch… No competition at all.

2. The PvP: Like come on…. It’s like you Anet released a game that wasn’t even finished. There is absolutely no competition in the PvP. No ladders, No achievments. No one knows whos the best PvPers, because there is no system that tells you that. The PvP lacks variety. No Arenas, No deathmatches… What the hell?! The game needs INGAME ladders… Not the useless ones posted on forums. The people that actually play your game to the max and stream everyday to give to the community gets nothing in return. Why Anet? Just why?

Instead of fixing these issues, Anet implents useless new items that no one wants. Useless stuff in the gem store. Rushes into fixing stuff problems, that end up getting even more kittened up. If Arena net really wants to make this game an E-sport you guys have to top it up a notch. Because this game lacks basic features.

Anyway, Don’t get me wrong. I love this game and i think it’s the best MMORPG on the market. But it still lacks basic features that makes the game interesting to play. This is just constructive criticism.

It sounds like you are looking for every other MMO out there. Anet made something different and I love it. I don’t want the things you want and listed; I’m sorry I do not share your opinion.

Spiky.8403:

Sorry but this is silly, introducing threadmill would make it worse for you? How exactly? You can still play your casual way. Or you’re afraid you won’t be on the same level anymore? Well, people that work for something should get more than those that do nothing. Lesson from real life.

You aren’t working for anything. You are spending time in front of a monitor with a keyboard and mouse pushing the same buttons everyone else. You are doing nothing that resembles work or anything that requires more effort than the newest player out there. You are not special, you are not unique but you do have entitlement issues.

Also since you want to bring “real life lessons” into this, here is a reality check for you. I manage a team of employees, and each one has his strengths and weaknesses. Some things come easier to some than others. They all work hard, some may be more skilled but that doesn’t mean they work harder. Often times work is not as hard for them.

So I put it to you that you if you consider this work, you actually work less hard than the most casual of casuals because it comes easy to you and therefor the casuals should be rewarded more if you want to base this off of effort.

Good Day Sir!

Ikcen.7518:

I play about 2 hours per day, when I play. Now I don’t play games at all. So am I hardcore player? Cause I think GW2 is very easy, boring, unsocial and noncompetitive game. For me PvE is pointless. I like to play with other players. So what a player am I?

type /deaths

a few are from “mistakes” or game disconnects? i guess..

anyway, until you are fully geared in exo/rune/sigils the game still is somewhat of a challenge, after that… open world is somewhat faceroll, i agree.

i want more hardcore content! (not for hardcore farmers, farming is evil. but for hardcore gameplay masters!)
i quit D3 after finishing it on inferno. because, for me that was it “i beat the game”.
am not alone in that category; a challenge is needed for a lot of players.

ATTHWSM.7840:

Lol. Carebears in GW2…. amazing MMOS like EQ2 and WoW CONTINUE to run for what? almost 10 years? as PAY to PLAY… because they realized that its hardcore gamers are the ones sticking around.

They make end game for them, because they know the hardcore gamer, the best of the population, is the one spending more time and effort than everyone else.

GW2 endgame is a joke. You hit 80, LITERALLY buy the best gear in the game for 20 gold, complete every dungeon half asleep,complete the map and then what? Make an alt? For what? to do the same thing again? GTFO.

Add some gear rewards for people that want them, its not gonna make a casuals gameplay any worse.

I crush FotM 30? Gimme better gear, so I can go and clear CoE 1-3 in 30 minutes. How does that affect a casual players game play? You can go still fail at dungeons, you can still craft, you can still do DE’s… Ill just be doing more.

End.

Out of WoW’s supposed 10 million subscribers, less than 1/2 a million raid.

GW2 made a wise choice in not chasing that crowd.