Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
broken forum is broken.
I really don’t understand how anyone can be happy with the current model… a few hours of content every 2 months with no expansions isn’t anything to be excited about.
Basically this game is the same as WoW, except it never releases expansions… How many people would still be playing WoW if they never had an expansion?
If they have not played in a while, between living story and feature packs there has been a good amount of content added.
I’ve tried. Doesn’t have nearly the same punch as a properly marketed expansion. I hate to point to WoW but they were adding content constantly as well but what draws everyone back time and again? Expansions.
So if the 4 added story lines had been marketed as an ‘expansion’, with a zippy new box and all sorts of hype, and you had been charged 50+ bucks for it, you would now be happy?
No thanks. I will take Anet’s method of adding content. Doesn’t cost the user any $$, and if I don’t like one or more of them, I don’t feel like I wasted any $$.
I honestly think that’s what he’s saying.
That he or his friends don’t care if GW2 adds an expansion’s worth of content, he needs it to be marketed as an expansion and sold separately in a fancy box with commercials promoting it in order for it to “count” as something new essentially.
Honestly this guy is a game developer’s dream customer lol.
I don’t understand why there are so many people opposing the OP.
I mean….. who doesn’t want an expansion?
I personally prefer the current system.
Some people prefer to have new stuff often but in smaller part rather than waiting a year or so for a big bunch of stuff that will be completed in a week or two and then go back to waiting another year.
I like when people say this. Why is it so hard to fathom that content can be added inbetween expansions such as the unsatisfying ones they are currently doing? Expansions put meat back on the bone. Imagine! An expansion that adds new content with REPLAY value again and tell a far bigger, and maybe better story as well.
They have sponged the hell out of launch content for two years now. Why couldnt an expansion provide entertainment for a year or so as well? instead of just two weeks? Thats kind of what happens when content has replay value. We all know how GW2 is centered around skins and no theres no reason that has to change.
MFW players that happily support Anet would refuse to buy an expansion from them.
(edited by IcarusMelody.5312)
Of course they can add stuff between expansion. But would it be as often as it is now?
People also seems to thing that an expansion will magically make the content different/better. Which is quite likely not the case. The only real difference would be that we got all the episodes in one pack rather than one every two week. The story-telling would be the same. The content would be more or less the same and so on.
Who have said anything at all about refusing to buy an expansion? I would buy an expansion if it was released, that doesn’t however change the fact that I personally prefer the current system.
in order to get an expansion, we must stop using the gem store. If they make loads of money from there, hy sould they bother making XPacks? i am officialy done with the gem store untill they release an xpac. and i encourage you all to do the same.
in order to get an expansion, we must stop using the gem store. If they make loads of money from there, hy sould they bother making XPacks? i am officialy done with the gem store untill they release an xpac. and i encourage you all to do the same.
And how do you suggest they pay their developers for developing said expansions without an income?
in order to get an expansion, we must stop using the gem store. If they make loads of money from there, hy sould they bother making XPacks? i am officialy done with the gem store untill they release an xpac. and i encourage you all to do the same.
And how do you suggest they pay their developers for developing said expansions without an income?
If they haven’t gotten enough money in the last 2 years, they are in much bigger trouble than people not buying stuff in the gem store right now.
The one thing an expansion can do that the living story can’t is generate interest outside of the game’s existing player base. A new shiny box on store shelves also has the added benefit of attracting casual people.
Take WoW for example. I don’t hear people talking about the patches, though there might be a single headline on a gaming news site. With the expansion however, not only is there headlines everywhere, but it also generates a large amount of hype and is talked about all over, including here for example.
It’s simply a mindset people have. An expansion is seen as something new, whereas a patch is just a patch. Patches also don’t typically cause major changes whereas this is expected in an expansion, creating a sense of unknown and creating a lot more buzz.
That’s really the thrust of it. It’s all mental… “hardcore” MMO players have conditioned themselves to expect certain things from an MMO, and boxed expansions are one of those things you “have” to do, or your game isn’t providing “real” content.
As much as this forum kittens about getting “hyped up”… in truth we want, and in fact, DEMAND to be hyped and fed promises.
If they haven’t gotten enough money in the last 2 years, they are in much bigger trouble than people not buying stuff in the gem store right now.
They clearly have gotten enough money form people continuously using the gem store in order for the game to keep being developed. But you know, they have had to pay their employees all that time as well. Even without people working on an expansion they would still need their salary after all.
But if suddenly all that income stopped, it is quite unlikely that they would have enough money to put out an expansion just like that. (Unless of course they are already more or less done with one)
Meh, if you don’t think the Living Story is doing it for you, you shouldn’t have any guilt not supporting it with gem store purchases.
Let me assure you, if Arena.net thought that the game was “dying” and that an expansion would “save” it… they’d be able to get the money to make it.
~Snip~
It’s simply a mindset people have. An expansion is seen as something new, whereas a patch is just a patch. Patches also don’t typically cause major changes whereas this is expected in an expansion, creating a sense of unknown and creating a lot more buzz.
Here’s the problem, everyone that’s played ‘traditional’ MMO’s has been brainwashed into needing the expansion model and can think of nothing else. They’ve been brainwashed into believing that new professions(classes in other games), skills, weapons, etc., are absolutely necessary for an MMO. It’s impossible for these people to think otherwise. Think of any cult that has a set of rules that people are expected to follow, that’s your traditional MMO expansion model, and that’s the problem here, everyone expects the traditional model and grasp that another concept might work, once it gets solid footing.
And how do you suggest they pay their developers for developing said expansions without an income?
The same way they built the game before releasing it. The same way every other gaming company in the history of MMO’s has done this, it isn’t complicated. The fact of the matter is they are in better shape than most because they can still draw on the gem sales to draw income when most MMO companies do so purely from box sales. Don’t fool yourself there is no way this is an either or scenario in fact unless they chose to make it so, they are likely in better shape than most traditional MMO companies in that respect.
Many companies do both and yes if the LW content updates truly met the content volumes of a traditional expansion there would not be the cry for them to break away and put one out. That clearly has not been the case over the last two years and should they decide to stay the course they will fail to maintain the same level of profitability because at the end of the day many people will be tired of it and move on.
Here’s the problem, everyone that’s played ‘traditional’ MMO’s has been brainwashed into needing the expansion model and can think of nothing else. They’ve been brainwashed into believing that new professions(classes in other games), skills, weapons, etc., are absolutely necessary for an MMO. It’s impossible for these people to think otherwise. Think of any cult that has a set of rules that people are expected to follow, that’s your traditional MMO expansion model, and that’s the problem here, everyone expects the traditional model and grasp that another concept might work, once it gets solid footing.
Wrong, Asheron’s Call ran for 10 years with only one expansion and was the best MMO I’ve played. They put out substantial content throughout their 10 years of monthly patches and thus kept a healthy player base and truth be told it was time and outdated graphics that slew that beast. The issue here is they are clearly not devoting the resources to truly make the LW method work because if they were the content would be way meatier than it has been. If they truly want to make this their bread and butter than I have to say it won’t be very successful without greatly increasing on not only the quantity but the substance of the LW patches for that to happen and keep most happy long term.
They have openly admitted to the fact that the size of the dev team used in LW is minimal compared to their overall staff unfortunately what they haven’t been open about is what the heck the rest are working on. Fact is all this negativity would disappear with a clear explanation of what they are building to and where we’re going, they choose not to we choose to continue and question why!
The same way they built the game before releasing it. The same way every other gaming company in the history of MMO’s has done this, it isn’t complicated. The fact of the matter is they are in better shape than most because they can still draw on the gem sales to draw income when most MMO companies do so purely from box sales. Don’t fool yourself there is no way this is an either or scenario in fact unless they chose to make it so, they are likely in better shape than most traditional MMO companies in that respect.
Many companies do both and yes if the LW content updates truly met the content volumes of a traditional expansion there would not be the cry for them to break away and put one out. That clearly has not been the case over the last two years and should they decide to stay the course they will fail to maintain the same level of profitability because at the end of the day many people will be tired of it and move on.
But what I quoted was someone talking about everyone stopping using the gem-store until we get and expansion. And THAT was what I was answering, since that would mean there would be more or less no income.
And no, “most” MMO does not gain their main income from box-sales, they get it from subscriptions.
I’ve tried. Doesn’t have nearly the same punch as a properly marketed expansion. I hate to point to WoW but they were adding content constantly as well but what draws everyone back time and again? Expansions.
First off, it took WoW almost 3 years to get their first expansion out and they didn’t add any new content like GW2 has all free of charge (if you take advantage of it at the time of release). So perspective and patience might be in order.
Secondly, I fully support the idea and reasons for an expansion. Give it more time and I hope we see a Cantha down the road.
But what I quoted was someone talking about everyone stopping using the gem-store until we get and expansion. And THAT was what I was answering, since that would mean there would be more or less no income.
And no, “most” MMO does not gain their main income from box-sales, they get it from subscriptions.
Today most MMO’s are not subscription based they are PTW designs. The sad truth is if a large base of content is not being committed to, then the gem sales will dry up regardless due to less people playing. They have a very clear window of opportunity right now because there is nothing earth shattering immediately on the horizon that will be a direct competitor to GW2 but that will change, several very good MMO’s are in the works and without something along the lines of an expansion or expansion volume content many will jump ship.
It makes good business sense to be working on one now, and they could very well be but not telling anyone is almost as harmful long term as not working on one at all and relying solely on the current LW format is not going to cut it long term for many players.
takes a drink
They have a very clear window of opportunity right now because there is nothing earth shattering immediately on the horizon that will be a direct competitor to GW2
Not an expert, but i think that window of opportunity will present itself a bit later, maybe a month from now, after things around WoD settle down a bit.
Not an expert, but i think that window of opportunity will present itself a bit later, maybe a month from now, after things around WoD settle down a bit.
Not the same type of game so not sure what that impact is long term. Anyway going back to the OP we had the same experience and none of my group plans to return until such time as some major content is added. I would like to point out that I’m not here smiling and hoping that GW2 might fail that’s absolutely not my wish at all, I love this game just not a fan of how they’re rolling it out. I am however very concerned by the path their taking with content additions and it is exacerbated by the continued silence and absurd policies.
I love the game and have said flat out I’d prepay for the expansion if they announced it today because I know what it will bring to my experience entertainment wise.
Of course they can add stuff between expansion. But would it be as often as it is now?
People also seems to thing that an expansion will magically make the content different/better. Which is quite likely not the case. The only real difference would be that we got all the episodes in one pack rather than one every two week. The story-telling would be the same. The content would be more or less the same and so on.
Who have said anything at all about refusing to buy an expansion? I would buy an expansion if it was released, that doesn’t however change the fact that I personally prefer the current system.
No, most of everybody that wants an expansion wants it to be separate from living story. Were not talking about a past tense “what if” scenario. We’re talking about the future.Also most of everyone thats against the expansion are the same folk who dont want to buy one.
No, most of everybody that wants an expansion wants it to be separate from living story. Were not talking about a past tense “what if” scenario. We’re talking about the future.Also most of everyone thats against the expansion are the same folk who dont want to buy one.
Again, it all comes down to resources. Does ArenaNet currently have the resources to churn out bi-weekly content updates (as they are more or less doing now) -AND- work on releasing an expansion? If some of their reviews on Glassdoor are to be taken with anything more than a grain of salt, I’d be hesistant to say they do.
And then you come here to see people advocating the boycott of ArenaNet’s primary (only?) source of income?
(edited by Cavalier.9064)
And then you come here to see people advocating the boycott of ArenaNet’s primary (only?) source of income?
I guess what I’m trying to say is that we already know how quickly and easily NCsoft can utterly annihilate a profitable game under its umbrella — R.I.P. City of Heroes — so let’s try not to chop off our nose to spite our face, please.
Doing a quick bit of maths, comparing the price of an expansion to the price of buying Living story episodes – if you added up all the episodes of one and two( yes I know you cant buy season 1 but this gives an idea of output over 2 years) excluding all the festivals it comes to about 23 episodes.
Episodes cost £2.13 each so £48.99 for all the content released over 2 years which is about the time frame for an expansion release o Wow’s expansion is currently shipping for £27.99 for most likely a darn sight more content than the LS has given…
I know which I would prefer..
But then again, if you log in for all of 30 seconds max around the time a new chapter in the LS is released, you pay nothing at all…..which makes your entire argument a moot point.
Well – you arnt even understanding my basic argument then – im making a financial comparison as best I can between the two and decising which I think is best value for money and which I prefer…
what about people like me who work in places they have no Internet for long periods? or people who God forbid only buy the game at a later point? or people who want to play LS on characters created AFTER the particular LS episode? I could go on…
Doing a quick bit of maths, comparing the price of an expansion to the price of buying Living story episodes – if you added up all the episodes of one and two( yes I know you cant buy season 1 but this gives an idea of output over 2 years) excluding all the festivals it comes to about 23 episodes.
Episodes cost £2.13 each so £48.99 for all the content released over 2 years which is about the time frame for an expansion release o Wow’s expansion is currently shipping for £27.99 for most likely a darn sight more content than the LS has given…
I know which I would prefer..
The problem with that is much of that content in WoW was “endgame raiding”, which less than 5% of the player base would ever actually see at the time it was relevant. It really was a horribly inefficient model, which is why now you see “Looking for Raid” difficulty.
It’s easy to SAY, “I want WoW Expansion-like content.” It’s a little more difficult to fit it into GW2’s model without kittening off a LOT of people.
Remember the rage when Arena.net added ONE tier of gear? Try selling those people on the traditional raid model that was the backbone of WoW expansion content. I’ll bring the squeegie to mop up what’s left of you.
Make no mistake, there’s nothing wrong with asking, “Where’s the content?” But it’s not something you can just point at another game and say, “Do it like that!” Even pointing back to GW1 is kinda problematic (GW1 was actually a pretty linear game with some very narrow progression, it’s exponentially harder to capture that same essence in an open world).
Much of Wow content ISNT just end game raiding – that’s where all the beardy BIS addicts and GS queens are hanging out but I happily played wow on and off for 6 years whilst only having 2 very brief raiding experiences yet I had a tonne to do and considered the xpacs worth the money.
You just arnt understanding my point unfortunately -when I compare the cost and amount of content released and find GW2 wanting that doesn’t mean I WANT raiding and horizontal gear progression – I just want MORE content more areas and I don’t see why for the cost GW2 is charging to replay LS they cant just pony up and produce something that is BIGGER than whay we have been given.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that we already know how quickly and easily NCsoft can utterly annihilate a profitable game under its umbrella — R.I.P. City of Heroes — so let’s try not to chop off our nose to spite our face, please.
I don’t believe that the majority raising these concerns want this to happen but if you sit idly by and allow things to turn down the wrong path it’ll happen anyway. I have supported them a lot since my original purchase but when I saw how that was being spent I pulled back, right or wrongly their continued silence has left me with little choice. As my favourite TV character always said" I want to believe!" I just cannot do so out of blind faith anymore pure and simple, if you choose to that’s you’re choice.
Doing a quick bit of maths, comparing the price of an expansion to the price of buying Living story episodes – if you added up all the episodes of one and two( yes I know you cant buy season 1 but this gives an idea of output over 2 years) excluding all the festivals it comes to about 23 episodes.
Episodes cost £2.13 each so £48.99 for all the content released over 2 years which is about the time frame for an expansion release o Wow’s expansion is currently shipping for £27.99 for most likely a darn sight more content than the LS has given…
I know which I would prefer..
But then again, if you log in for all of 30 seconds max around the time a new chapter in the LS is released, you pay nothing at all…..which makes your entire argument a moot point.
Well – you arnt even understanding my basic argument then – im making a financial comparison as best I can between the two and decising which I think is best value for money and which I prefer…
what about people like me who work in places they have no Internet for long periods? or people who God forbid only buy the game at a later point? or people who want to play LS on characters created AFTER the particular LS episode? I could go on…
Yea, because there is such a huge percentage of the player base that experiences the types of problems that you’re describing. Why would one even bother to play an mmorpg if they are without internet access for long periods of time? (although you can do that with GW2 since there is no monthly subscription fee) And please list all these supposed characters that have been created after new LS releases?
Again, I would bet that your ‘argument’ is a moot point to the majority of mmorpg players. Most are able to login for a few seconds around the time of a new LS release, therefore completely avoiding the cost you speak of.
It might be a significant financial point for you, but that is not the game’s problem.
(edited by Teon.5168)
I’ve tried. Doesn’t have nearly the same punch as a properly marketed expansion. I hate to point to WoW but they were adding content constantly as well but what draws everyone back time and again? Expansions.
First off, it took WoW almost 3 years to get their first expansion out and they didn’t add any new content like GW2 has all free of charge (if you take advantage of it at the time of release). So perspective and patience might be in order.
Secondly, I fully support the idea and reasons for an expansion. Give it more time and I hope we see a Cantha down the road.
WoW also existed in a vacuum for most of those 3 years. I honestly don’t even think an expansion is necessary, but the CONTENT and the MARKETING is. Usually you throw those two words together and it equals an expansion but as long as you have both in sufficient quantity any form is acceptable.
I will not argue for or against an expansion as I have not completed the map on any 1 toon yet, nor likely to in a long time. But for those who like to rush out and complete an expansion and be first to have run all dungeons and get all end of game content, you would probably complete said expansion within 1 week or maybe a month because you will hammer it until you have done so.
You are missing the best point of a community type game like GW2 like meeting other people, helping them play and learn the game with all the intricacies it has. Just doing things together instead of being first and best with everything. Being free to play helps many people who might be hard pressed to pay like wow requires. Sometimes just running around with a group of friends is far more rewarding than racing to get through new content so you can be first to be bored again and ask for more expansions in forum again.
For a game that is not pay to play I think it is doing very well. The choice you are really wanting is either free to play as is or Pay to play with heavy marketing and still regular small content updates just to keep it interesting . Wow is doing it that way but I left wow & am not going back.(I do not enjoy roaming over black burnt out blown up landscape all the time.) Wow makes a fortune to pay staff, Anet keeps it free, has a small budget in comparison, and does well within that comparison. If you want what Wow does please go play wow. If you like one of the prettiest games I have seen with nice scenery and very realistic (more or less; well Norns and Humans anyway) toons with pretty armour looks and enjoy meeting often nice people and not having to pay for the privilege Then I believe Anet is doing nicely within those parameters.
I am not criticising anyone as such, but speaking up in appreciation of Anet’s efforts thus far.
~Snip~
It’s simply a mindset people have. An expansion is seen as something new, whereas a patch is just a patch. Patches also don’t typically cause major changes whereas this is expected in an expansion, creating a sense of unknown and creating a lot more buzz.
Here’s the problem, everyone that’s played ‘traditional’ MMO’s has been brainwashed into needing the expansion model and can think of nothing else. They’ve been brainwashed into believing that new professions(classes in other games), skills, weapons, etc., are absolutely necessary for an MMO. It’s impossible for these people to think otherwise. Think of any cult that has a set of rules that people are expected to follow, that’s your traditional MMO expansion model, and that’s the problem here, everyone expects the traditional model and grasp that another concept might work, once it gets solid footing.
It’s not that dramatic as you make it out to be, people know with an expansion they will be receiving more than just a small living story which it has been so far. Anet having no expectation to share any information for the future of the game just leaves speculation and speculation of hope for more than just these lil living stories.
Look what expansion did for WvW they got like 35% more superscribes,think good expansion would be good for this game but love LS to ;D
If they have not played in a while, between living story and feature packs there has been a good amount of content added.
It’s just more of the same, they need to add a new class or weapons or at least skills
I’ve tried. Doesn’t have nearly the same punch as a properly marketed expansion. I hate to point to WoW but they were adding content constantly as well but what draws everyone back time and again? Expansions.
First off, it took WoW almost 3 years to get their first expansion out and they didn’t add any new content like GW2 has all free of charge (if you take advantage of it at the time of release). So perspective and patience might be in order.
Secondly, I fully support the idea and reasons for an expansion. Give it more time and I hope we see a Cantha down the road.
WoW also existed in a vacuum for most of those 3 years. I honestly don’t even think an expansion is necessary, but the CONTENT and the MARKETING is. Usually you throw those two words together and it equals an expansion but as long as you have both in sufficient quantity any form is acceptable.
I totally agree. WoW had no real competition unlike the flooded MMO market today. I am not convinced the current LS method is enough to create the excitement needed to pull in a larger audience (old and new players). Now some of that new audience will surely leave after devouring the new content but many of them may also stay.
I’ve tried. Doesn’t have nearly the same punch as a properly marketed expansion. I hate to point to WoW but they were adding content constantly as well but what draws everyone back time and again? Expansions.
First off, it took WoW almost 3 years to get their first expansion out and they didn’t add any new content like GW2 has all free of charge (if you take advantage of it at the time of release). So perspective and patience might be in order.
Secondly, I fully support the idea and reasons for an expansion. Give it more time and I hope we see a Cantha down the road.
You might want to check your facts there… WoW launched their first expansion 2 years and 2 months after launch, not even close to 3 years. Secondly they added:
2 new PvP modes
4 new PvP maps
4 new dungeons
6 raids
4 festivals
3 events
in addition to the normal feature sets (PvP ranks, PvP rewards, LFG tool, cross server stuff, etc)
All free of charge before their first expansion. So you can see why people think GW2 is lagging behind content wise. Plus they did all that without any competition to encourage them to do so.
/inbeforesomeonetellsmetogobacktowow
You might want to check your facts there… WoW launched their first expansion 2 years and 2 months after launch, not even close to 3 years. Secondly they added:
2 new PvP modes
4 new PvP maps
4 new dungeons
6 raids
4 festivals
3 events
in addition to the normal feature sets (PvP ranks, PvP rewards, LFG tool, cross server stuff, etc)All free of charge before their first expansion. So you can see why people think GW2 is lagging behind content wise. Plus they did all that without any competition to encourage them to do so.
/inbeforesomeonetellsmetogobacktowow
Oh? I was under the impression that WoW have always had the subscription, but are you saying they didn’t before their first expansion?
Play like you want? Scrap that. SHOVE that living story DOWN THEIR THROAT.
Yes, I agree with OP. No, I don’t particularly like Living story. It is not a worthy replacement.
Uhm,
So expansions. The thing about them is they are part of a tried and true MMO formula that drums up traffic and sales right? What we’re dealing with right now on the forums and reddit are suppositional expansions for this game. As in, “gw1 had this expansion with these features so if they do it for gw2 then…” and “usually when they make expansions you get new lands and classes and skills and play modes…” etc etc.
Basically players are creating an imaginary sandwich and guessing at how good it will taste based on experiences they’ve had in other MMOs or the prequel to this one. You see comments of “what an expansion would do for this game” above mine right now, but one thing we may need to keep in mind is that GW2 has a different MMO monetization setup than many previous MMO’s. They make money by selling skins, toys and features via microtransaction and by new boxed and digital purchases. Everything: security, server maintenance, QA and new features in production may hinge on this current income model.
Making an expansion is kind of a risk. I’m not saying they aren’t working on one, nor am I saying it would be a horrible idea. I’m just saying only Anet knows if they should or shouldn’t do one. You can want that imaginary sandwich so much it keeps you up at night guessing at how it will taste. You can make it the only solution to your boredom. You can hound the devs and argue with everyone on the forums who’s currently enjoying the content and appreciate new things however Anet decides to to give them to us.
But you aren’t seeing the metrics Anet is seeing and you don’t know their full roadmap. We may never know it until they make another move because our community has been so fickle and hard to please to the point where no one can search GW2 on their browser without seeing us flaming about a probably tasty imaginary sandwich. It’s a gamble to release an expansion because of the resource dedication, the marketing budget and expectations. If it goes over badly, GW2 will die. Besides, Anet is owned by NCSoft. We really don’t know if Anet’s resources are fully dedicated to this franchise right now… They could be working on other projects for their parent company.
So yes, you can want an expansion, but don’t let desire for it blind you to what Anet’s been putting out. Please don’t constrain Anet to a set of rules of MMO success when they aren’t restraining you to traditional MMO membership requirements to enjoy what they’ve been giving us. In short, relax and appreciate the content releases. Anet has proved all throughout the previous months that they have the best interests at heart for this franchise, it’s lore and it’s fans. We just have to be more patient and participate in the things they’re prioritizing.
(edited by johnsonade.9547)
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