Not because of the cost, I’m quite well off at the moment.
So I started my alt and this time I’m going through the game at an absolute snails pace; reading every bit of text, talking to every named NPC, and I’d say, the game is absolutely enjoyable in this sense. (I’m even playing with maximum up close camera, offset to the left for that personalized over the shoulder effect).
And I realize the thing that destroys the games sense of immersion, are the waypoints. There is a truly epic feeling going about the landscape like and explorer that is lost once you just teleport everywhere. I know what you’ll say now; just don’t use them, but the thing is; other people use them. Sure, they might not share the same sense of adventure as me, or their definition of it is different, I’m not here to judge them.
The thing is, without waypoints, we could all share an extra sense of camaraderie. Dying is going to suck way more because if no one saves you, you’ll have to restart at some camp far far away.
Or when people eventually travel back to Lions Arch; they’d have been away from a major city for a day or two, and their exploits would feel that much more grand, rather than just popping into the city every minute or so, like it is something in their backpack.
Actually a game I played recently sort of does this; Dragon’s Dogma. Granted the rest of the game wasn’t spectacular, the sense of ‘going out to adventure’ felt very true.
Don’t push your beliefs into others. Other players might feel the opposite way you feel.
Waypoints are fine for me. When I’m in a hurry i use them, or if i have to travel a long distance. I don’t waypoint too often because if you walk you can pick up crafting materials on the way; do DE’s you run into randomly; explore new paths to were you are going. Really I think that if you want a sense of adventure and save time, you could waypoint part of the way and then walk the rest.
Waypoints are fine for me. When I’m in a hurry i use them, or if i have to travel a long distance. I don’t waypoint too often because if you walk you can pick up crafting materials on the way; do DE’s you run into randomly; explore new paths to were you are going. Really I think that if you want a sense of adventure and save time, you could waypoint part of the way and then walk the rest.
I think Straits of Devastation is an area where waypoints don’t work very well at all. Arenanet even made a video envisaging the ‘invasion’ nature of the DE chains there, but the problem is, once one person does it once, they’d stick to waypointing to the main area afterwards to do the ‘zerg DEs’ there. I rarely see more than 1 other person taking part in the invasion DEs. It goes against their design a lot.
You’re like those people who don’t like fast travel in Elder Scrolls games. You’d rather spend that 20 minutes every time to cross the serene, beautiful landscape…however some of us have things to do! Dragons to fight, loot to get, ya know.
I have kind of a ‘like/dislike’ relationship with waypoints (won’t say love/hate, cause I don’t feel that strongly about it). On the one hand, they’re nice because they allow me to jump around and turn stuff in, or hop over and try to participate in a DE that’s going on.
On the other hand, they tend to make the zones feel absolutely TINY, once you’ve wandered through them a single time. Need to go to the opposite end of the zone? No probably. Click. There.
At first I thought the world felt really huge, and I was enjoying wandering around exploring. Then after I started using waypoints, it’s as if the entire world shrunk down and is about 10% as large as I first thought.
I’d actually rather that there were only like 3-4 waypoints per zone, myself, rather than the 15-20. It would make the zones feel bigger.
You’re like those people who don’t like fast travel in Elder Scrolls games. You’d rather spend that 20 minutes every time to cross the serene, beautiful landscape…however some of us have things to do! Dragons to fight, loot to get, ya know.
Dragons, aside, its been proven constant waypointing doesnt actually get you all that much more loot, thanks to costs and loot scaling. I certainly don’t mean to say having no waypoints is better than having them, but merely to highlight the fact, some of the charm of the game, particularly those that the developers envisaged is lost, due to waypoints.
You’re like those people who don’t like fast travel in Elder Scrolls games. You’d rather spend that 20 minutes every time to cross the serene, beautiful landscape…however some of us have things to do! Dragons to fight, loot to get, ya know.
Fast travel in a game does DESTROY immersion. It also destroys any sense of scale and massive size.
Look no further then WoW when they introduced flying mounts. Not only was the size of the world reduced dramatically, world PvP died. When they implemented a shorter hearthstone, teleports to zones, dungeon finder and more gryphon points, they destroyed the immersion even more. The world became empty.
A big example was the journey to places like Winterspring from Darnassus or the travel from SW to Booty Bay or from SW to EPL. When you add tons of flight poitns/way points…all of a sudden, it’s this small world now.
Lastly, even though GW2 doesnt have DF or World PvP, what all these Waypoints do are REMOVE the massive multiplayer from the world.
When you individuals ‘porting’ to every location, you create the sense that the SERVER you are on is either not active or dead. You create a vast ‘emptiness’ in the world because you don’t PASS anyone in your adventures when everyone is porting all over.
This is one big thing ANET massively screwed up on. Tons of waypoints and quick travel. You would have thought they would have learned the issues that were created in WoW and to avoid it…yet they didn’t.
You’re like those people who don’t like fast travel in Elder Scrolls games. You’d rather spend that 20 minutes every time to cross the serene, beautiful landscape…however some of us have things to do! Dragons to fight, loot to get, ya know.
Dragons, aside, its been proven constant waypointing doesnt actually get you all that much more loot, thanks to costs and loot scaling. I certainly don’t mean to say having no waypoints is better than having them, but merely to highlight the fact, some of the charm of the game, particularly those that the developers envisaged is lost, due to waypoints.
Actually it wastes the world developers time by creating ports all over. If I was a world developer, artist, etc and the game programmers put a bunch of way points in, I would literally get on them about wasting my time creating a world that no one will experience because they are hoping all over. Sure you ’don’t’ have to use them but it’s better to keep your world active then making it quick and easy to get around because players want everything easy and quick. If you don’t have time to travel to distant locations, then make the time or travel one night and play another.
Travel in WoW was one of the most exciting things due to never knowing what you would come across, especially on PvP servers but also it was part of the ‘JOURNEY’.
Might as well not even bother and just start making instant ports to all DE and Dungeons.
Take the world out of an MMO and you take the subscriber out of the game literally and figuratively.
(edited by Ryth.6518)
You’re like those people who don’t like fast travel in Elder Scrolls games. You’d rather spend that 20 minutes every time to cross the serene, beautiful landscape…however some of us have things to do! Dragons to fight, loot to get, ya know.
Fast travel in a game does DESTROY immersion.
Look no further then WoW when they introduced flying mounts. Not only was the size of the world reduced dramatically, world PvP died. When they implemented a shorter hearthstone, teleports to zones, dungeon finder and more gryphon points, they destroyed the immersion even more. The world became empty.
Lastly, even though GW2 doesnt have DF or World PvP, what all these Waypoints do are REMOVE the massive multiplayer from the world.
When you individuals ‘porting’ to every location, you create the sense that the SERVER you are on is either not active or dead. You create a vast ‘emptiness’ in the world because you don’t PASS anyone in your adventures when everyone is porting all over.
This is one big thing ANET massively screwed up on. Tons of waypoints and quick travel. You would have thought they would have learned the issues that were created in WoW and to avoid it…yet they didn’t.
It’d be nice if it was just major towns and cities, like GW1. Especially on Straits of Devastation.
It’d be nice if it was just major towns and cities, like GW1. Especially on Straits of Devastation.
Agreed. Major cities only and major towns.
It should also be some sort of travel like horse, carriage, flight, blimp…not some loading screen port…so lame.
I save silver by not using the waypoints all the time. I prefer to run through zones, take in the scenery, and see if any events are happening on my way there – it’s the same reason I will often walk rather than take a bus somewhere. It’s nicer and saves me money!
At the same time though, regular waypoints make it MUCH easier to meet up with friends to help them, for example. I like having them there, but I’m quickly realising that they work better for me if I don’t use them for absolutely everything. I’m happy to make that choice myself.
You get to experience this in WvW maps at least. When you have only one point at which you can “restart” and when you are really far away from it, you feel the tension and feel the sense of security when other players are around, more so because this is PvP were talking about. Then your world builds waypoints at the keeps and suddenly you’re thinking how you are going to optimize your journey, it’s a completely different attitude and experience.
I think it would do good for Arenanet to consider experimenting with this in PvE. Not everywhere of course. One zone. One endgame zone analogous to something like the realms of the gods in GW1. I think many players would appreciate that. And if you are not one of them, well, there enough waypoints everywhere else. Nothing to lose.
I’d actually rather that there were only like 3-4 waypoints per zone, myself, rather than the 15-20. It would make the zones feel bigger.
I’d like this. Just enough waypoints to be able to get to places at a decent pace without literally being able to fast travel everywhere.
I’m fine with waypoints the way there are now, though, I just don’t find myself using them that much. Once my characters get loaded up with swiftness on 100%~ uptime, then I just run everywhere unless I’m porting across zones.
For the people who don’t like fast travel, don’t use it. If I had to run everywhere, I wouldn’t have bought this game. I hate exploring. My biggest pet peeves about MMO’s is travelling long distances. It really annoys me.
^ Yep agree…not sure why Arenanet had to go so casual on somethings…world immersion is a KEY thing that needs to be present in an MMO. Porting around all over cities that have 10+ waypoints and zones that have that many just makes the game a teleportfest.
Hopefully they realize this and remove a ton from all over. Would be in their best interest.
If they removed them, I would quit playing the game.
I agree most of the time i spend playing GW2 is looking at loading screens.
You’re like those people who don’t like fast travel in Elder Scrolls games. You’d rather spend that 20 minutes every time to cross the serene, beautiful landscape…however some of us have things to do! Dragons to fight, loot to get, ya know.
Fast travel in a game does DESTROY immersion. It also destroys any sense of scale and massive size.
Look no further then WoW when they introduced flying mounts. Not only was the size of the world reduced dramatically, world PvP died. When they implemented a shorter hearthstone, teleports to zones, dungeon finder and more gryphon points, they destroyed the immersion even more. The world became empty.
A big example was the journey to places like Winterspring from Darnassus or the travel from SW to Booty Bay or from SW to EPL. When you add tons of flight poitns/way points…all of a sudden, it’s this small world now.
Lastly, even though GW2 doesnt have DF or World PvP, what all these Waypoints do are REMOVE the massive multiplayer from the world.
When you individuals ‘porting’ to every location, you create the sense that the SERVER you are on is either not active or dead. You create a vast ‘emptiness’ in the world because you don’t PASS anyone in your adventures when everyone is porting all over.
This is one big thing ANET massively screwed up on. Tons of waypoints and quick travel. You would have thought they would have learned the issues that were created in WoW and to avoid it…yet they didn’t.
You’re like those people who don’t like fast travel in Elder Scrolls games. You’d rather spend that 20 minutes every time to cross the serene, beautiful landscape…however some of us have things to do! Dragons to fight, loot to get, ya know.
Dragons, aside, its been proven constant waypointing doesnt actually get you all that much more loot, thanks to costs and loot scaling. I certainly don’t mean to say having no waypoints is better than having them, but merely to highlight the fact, some of the charm of the game, particularly those that the developers envisaged is lost, due to waypoints.
Actually it wastes the world developers time by creating ports all over. If I was a world developer, artist, etc and the game programmers put a bunch of way points in, I would literally get on them about wasting my time creating a world that no one will experience because they are hoping all over. Sure you ’don’t’ have to use them but it’s better to keep your world active then making it quick and easy to get around because players want everything easy and quick. If you don’t have time to travel to distant locations, then make the time or travel one night and play another.
Travel in WoW was one of the most exciting things due to never knowing what you would come across, especially on PvP servers but also it was part of the ‘JOURNEY’.
Might as well not even bother and just start making instant ports to all DE and Dungeons.
Take the world out of an MMO and you take the subscriber out of the game literally and figuratively.
So you want me to travel for an entire day? Not doing anything I want to do and being bored out of my mind….then spend the next day doing what I ACTUALLY want to do? Are you kitten kidding me? I know it may come as a shock, but a lot of people have family and jobs to do. I think the only people who can possibly enjoy that style of play have 8-10 hours they can play a day. I don’t have that amount of time. I have 2 hours maybe of downtime and some days I can’t play at all. I used to be able to play for hours every day, but ya know responsibilities came up. I know for one if waypoints were gone I’d be gone. I work all day as it is I don’t need to feel like I’m working in a virtual world too.
I agree most of the time i spend playing GW2 is looking at loading screens.
I think the first beta the ‘area’ in which you can stay in to have a load screen free teleport was bigger. At least it felt that way to me, That probably had optimization issues though.
Waypoints really help shorten long walks. I remember something being said over casual gaming and how it would help casual gamers. I really don’t want to spend 30 minutes traversing from one side of the map to the other. Mesmers walk very slow already, and Ive also heard guardians don’t have a speed signet either. I always use way points, because you move fast, you farm fast, therefore you make money fast.
At the above post, yes there were some issues with SSDs(or at least I noticed and I have an SSD). It made loading screens take forever or not at all. But it’s fixed now I get 12 second loading screens at most.
Waypoints are fine for me. I don’t want to travel from Frozen lands to land of the undead by walking. lol
Its not like I am refuting the usefulness of waypoints, of course they are useful! However, a reduced number could be more beneficial to the enjoyment of the game, which of course, is merely my opinion.
Waypoints stay = Those who want to can use them, those who’d rather walk can do just that.
No waypoints = Those who’d like to use them can’t, those who’d rather walk just keep doing it.
Having waypoints is simply better than not having them because you can make the choice yourself rather than be forced to.
I actually debated this in my first post. Look at Straits of Devastation. How many people actually ‘invade’ Orr; close to none other than first timers because they can just waypoint to Orr.
Design principle: Make Orr and invasion. See how waypoints conflict with this idea? Even if I don’t use the waypoint, but others do, the design principle of Orr is not upheld at all.
What are you suggesting then? Removal, reduction, etc?
Remember in DAOC, you would buy a mount to somewhere, and go have dinner, watch some TV, and come back to play the game? Then you forget to bind yourself to the local stone, die, and end up having to do that all over again? I’d rather not have that.
I personally walk everywhere, talk to every single NPC (which leads to quite a lot of bugs btw), stop to take pictures of the scenery, but sometimes, I just have to port to keep myself from going insane.
I like waypoints. I would use them more if it was cheaper.
What are you suggesting then? Removal, reduction, etc?
In SoD I’d definitely go for removal. The invasion events are actually really fun. Also once you progress into Malchor’s Leap you can’t travel back through the gate to get to SoD. Otherwise, I think the rest of the game is fine, though personally, I’d prefer a reduction.
What are you suggesting then? Removal, reduction, etc?
In SoD I’d definitely go for removal. The invasion events are actually really fun. Also once you progress into Malchor’s Leap you can’t travel back through the gate to get to SoD. Otherwise, I think the rest of the game is fine, though personally, I’d prefer a reduction.
I can agree a little on SoD. It’s a ghost town there now (or rather bot town). Still, I’m lazy to walk around getting pulled, pushed, nagged, nibbed by undead now and then.
Stop wasting your time. This is what the BWEs were for. To bring up sh-t like this instead of blowing smoke up ANet’s -ss.
I was wary of them the minute I experienced them in-game.
I’ve made it a point not to use the waypoints unless I’m in a city (it’s free, and nothing new to see in the cities) or when I die.
It makes me think of Skyrim. I did the same in that game.
Oh, and I don’t like being forced to pay after a death…
And what’s the logic behind the waypoints becoming more expensive as you level up? Your -ss is more blinged out so it’s more expensive to teleport you? Why doesn’t it cost karma?
The zones don’t feel like the small boxes that they are as much anymore. I get to see more stuff happening randomly. I may pick up more rare loot along the way I may have missed otherwise (in particular dyes).
I agree with you, I quite love the feel of the world, especially with the jumping puzzles and how overall “complete” the game feels. Waypoints do sort of take away that experience, and I guess a method of counterbalancing that is the increased cost at high levels, but overall it’s difficult to balance immersion versus tediousness when traveling.
Not all classes have super long swiftness buffs. Traveling is quite a pain when everything within a 10 mile radius wants you dead, and can two shot you, and can pull you, maim you, slow you, immobilize you, etc.
I guess at the end of the day just play the game you want to and let others play it the way they want.
I usually don’t teleport within a map, unless I died, or I am just finishing up the last POIs to complete the map. Mostly because I am too cheap to spend the silver.
But being forced to walk everywhere? Ugh, no thanks, I wasted enough time in Karana traveling from Freeport to Qeynos and back, thanks, I won’t do that again. Not only is it a time waster, it also keeps people from grouping up quickly.
Waypoints are ANETs travel option. They were in GW and they are in this game as expected. You are more than welcome to ignore all the waypoints you want.
For me there would be even more waypoints.
I wanna see you say that when you have to work the whole day and have only like 2 hours of avaliable time to play.
I’d rather have them and have the option to not use them.
Most of the time I’m like the OP and want to explore everything and really feel I get more from the game by actually travelling places. I’ve found a lot of DE’s and things I missed the first time around when passing through an area.
But sometimes I just want to get where I’m going for whatever reason. (Usually because I want to meet up with friends to do something and don’t want to keep them waiting around.) And when that happens it’s nice to know I’ve got the option instead of being forced to run there.
I also don’t like waypoints and I think a system where you automatically travel through the land on some sort of vehicle or mount is better but most of the younger players are not willing to wait 2+ minutes to go from point A to point B.
I’m not a big MMO player like a lot of people around here. I played WOW for about a week several years ago, and SWTOR for about six months. One of the bigger complaints I remember seeing on the SWTOR forums was the lack of quick travelling. It could take upwards of fifteen to twenty minutes to get anywhere – whenever my tiny, tiny guild of friends wanted to do a flashpoint together, we had to really build our day around doing it. We all have kids and jobs, we really didn’t have the time to plan for full day-long questing as a group. Taking that long just to meet up became a chore, almost a slap in the face. After a few weeks, it simply wasn’t fun anymore.
It’s interesting to me that the exact opposite argument has started popping up here. One of the things we like so much about GW2 is that we can get around so easily, should we choose. I feel the same way about the Elder Scrolls games – with quick travelling, it’s more encouraging to explore if we know we won’t be stuck backtracking for twenty minutes. I see it as a positive addition. It allows for a wider audience (those of us who can’t trek across great vistas because we can only play on our lunch breaks), should they so choose to waypoint it.
I can’t speak for WvW waypoints, as that is something I’ve yet to experience myself.
Anyway, there’s my 2 cents.
Calavera.1086I also don’t like waypoints and I think a system where you automatically travel through the land on some sort of vehicle or mount is better but most of the younger players are not willing to wait 2+ minutes to go from point A to point B.
The dragon or event is usually dead or gone by then.
I also don’t like waypoints and I think a system where you automatically travel through the land on some sort of vehicle or mount is better but most of the younger players are not willing to wait 2+ minutes to go from point A to point B.
Younger players? I’m an adult with a job, I don’t want to wait around but actually play the game with the time I have each day.
Look no further then WoW when they introduced flying mounts. Not only was the size of the world reduced dramatically, world PvP died. When they implemented a shorter hearthstone, teleports to zones, dungeon finder and more gryphon points, they destroyed the immersion even more. The world became empty.
A big example was the journey to places like Winterspring from Darnassus or the travel from SW to Booty Bay or from SW to EPL. When you add tons of flight poitns/way points…all of a sudden, it’s this small world now.
world pvp in wow was dead long before they added flying mounts, it certainly didn’t help the situation either but it wasn’t the cause.
the only thing that affects world pvp in any game is the players, when they have had enough well it’s done for, and in wow they had just had enough.
some talk about wanting it back, but remember that is not a mass majority.
I also don’t like waypoints and I think a system where you automatically travel through the land on some sort of vehicle or mount is better but most of the younger players are not willing to wait 2+ minutes to go from point A to point B.
Younger players? I’m an adult with a job, I don’t want to wait around but actually play the game with the time I have each day.
agreed, it’s not that younger players are in such a rush, but many players have limited time they can get on and play the game before the wife/husband gets them by the neck and drags them away to do family things.
@calavera, that’s a very narrow view of the gaming community where some have very demanding jobs but still want to relax in a game they enjoy, with what ever free time they have to do it.
if that means you have to suffer by seeing waypoints then i say add more.
Don’t push your beliefs into others. Other players might feel the opposite way you feel.
This is kind of a two way street. If you dislike using waypoints but hook up with a group that is teleporting everywhere and starts complaining when they notice you’re hoofing it to each location, guess who is starting to feel pressured to abandon their playstyle then?
It makes me also wish there were no waypoints.
Just because they’re there doesn’t mean you have to use them.
Go pootling about the world at your own pace, but please do not presume to petition to have waypoints removed when other people feel differently.
Personally, I only use them when I know I can afford to and when I need to get to guild members quickly (they cost too kitten much for my liking), but having them there when I need to use them is invaluable.
But of course, these complaints are from yet another person using WoW as a point of reference.
I would have thought older players would be more in favour of waypoints to, at least if you believe the common assumption that younger players have more time to devote to the game.
If I was still unemployed I’d probably be insisting no one needs waypoints. It’s the knowledge that I only have about an hour or two a night to play that makes me value the option to jump to my destination and get on with what I want to be doing. Even if I don’t always use it I’m a lot happier about exploring if I know it’s my choice to do it.
Removing waypoints would destroy my immersion in GW2. As everyone knows (or should), map travel is an integral part of GW lore. There’s even a quest you do for a kid who claims his mother invented map travel. Not only that, but waypoints have made mounts obsolete, which I personally find does a lot more for getting players into the environment than waypoints may have to do with removing them from it.
This is something I’ve been trying to push but of course, I keep getting shot down by everyone on this forum.
The amount of waypoints in the game is ridiculous.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Should-Guild-Wars-2-have-less-waypoints/page/2
Having more waypoints not only breaks immersion but also makes the world feel much smaller than it really is. Guild Wars felt so epic in scale because of how far apart each waypoint is located.
More poor design choices built to please the casual sauce players and the players who want mounts.
Just walk. You’ll run into more people and gather more crafting supplies anyway.
I only use waypoints as check marks for where I’ve been or if I need to meet up with people.
Don’t push your beliefs into others. Other players might feel the opposite way you feel.
This is such a horrible attitude, my god. The point of these forums are to share your beliefs and make the ArenaNet team aware of what is wrong with the game.
dimgl, you really have no right branding people such as myself as “Casual sauce”.
I’ve put more than 500 hours into this game, which is likely more than you, and I believe waypoints are essential to Guild Wars 2.
Ye gods, I hate this lazy gamer categorisation that insists on dividing players into “Hardcore” and “Casual”.
It does the community a disservice, and simplifies the degrees of participation to obscene, insulting levels. It’s bigotry and elitism by the back door.
Why does it matter how many hours you, or I, have played?
Let’s take out the ‘casual sauce’ part of the reply. How is, in any way, what I have said incorrect? It’s my opinion that waypoints destroy immersion and make the world feel smaller, as well as ruin the amount of challenge it takes to traverse a map. Why is my opinion ‘wrong’?
It seems that this game caters to gamers who simply log on for a few hours and log off. That is why there are literally at least 12-20 waypoints a zone.
It’s not that, but the fact that you implied people with opinions other than yours are someone worse than you, and that’s simply wrong. They enjoy the game the way it is, and if you change it, you’re changing it for the worse for them.
You have the choice of ignoring waypoints and not using them. Please go ahead and do so.
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