Guild Wars 2

I like the way it is. If it’s your first time through the game then you’ll only be using waypoints as places to respawn, since you’ll be broke.

And if you’re rich, you probably explored everything and wanna get places fast for one reason or another!

I gotta admit though, I’ve only come across 5 other people between 40-45. Not sure if waypoints are to blame, but MAYBE!?

Again, this is also not the point. I like the waypoint system, however, and you may not agree with me, using many waypoints is simply not a good design choice for several reasons:

• Waypoints ruin immersion by allowing you to instantly go anywhere
• Waypoints make it easier to skip through dynamic content, so players may never see some content unless they are forced to explore the world
• Rebuttal: the argument ‘simply don’t use them’ is ridiculous. When you are playing with friends, the waypoint system obviously doesn’t let you ‘not use them’, as people would be waiting for you to get to a location. Instead of taking a team and adventuring into a zone, you would simply teleport to the corresponding waypoint. Most of the time, at later stages in the game, it becomes easy mode to travel through the world. I can literally skip through entire areas just to get vistas, skill points, or even group together with a team. Again, I just feel like it’s catered to casual players so they can feel like they’ve gotten something done every time they log on.

Immersion’s a gaming community buzzword that’s been incorrectly adopted.
There are numerous arguments about how ridiculous the term is, but again, it’s used in lazy arguments and essentially means nothing. I can immediately and effectively dismiss your use of the term by pointing out you’re applying it to a game with a third person camera and dragons, things which break “immersion” just as much as instant travel.

Regarding point two, all players have to activate waypoints the first time, so the chances of them missing dynamic events they haven’t experienced before are slim.

And “simply don’t use them” applies to friends as well. Look at it democratically. If your friends all want to use waypoints, yet you don’t want to, who’s going to be left out in the cold?

And again, the use of the term “casual player”. Lazy and ignorant.
Someone with a high degree of skill who enjoys playing a particular piece of content and utilising that skill does not want to have to trudge through the stuff that doesn’t necessarily float their boat. Waypoints allow them to get to the content they actually want faster.

Also, “easy mode” is another memetic slur propagated by gamer communities and thrown about with wild abandon.

Stop using such lazy linguistic shortcuts and you may realise that people are different and want different things.
ArenaNet have cast their nets wide and have done a very good job in pleasing a large amount of people, which is no mean feat.

dimgl.4786:

Again, this is also not the point. I like the waypoint system, however, and you may not agree with me, using many waypoints is simply not a good design choice for several reasons:

I disagree. Waypoints are a very good design choice because they allow you to come to the game with different mindsets and not feel shortchanged.

If you want to journey somewhere entirely on foot, you can do. However, if you are deadset on gathering a certain material for crafting one day, you can use the waypoints to jump between areas that you’ve previously scouted out. This doesn’t ‘break immersion’, since you are immersed in your chosen task, and you don’t want to be breaking off every five minutes to talk to another NPC while you take the long road between places you want to be in.

It’s also a great choice for playing with friends, since the waypoints allow you to find each other quickly and conveniently. You can then opt to embark on a ‘no waypoint’ style adventure. But removing them completely, or making them less convenient would mean that very often, playing with friends or guildies wouldn’t be worth the effort. One look at the distance you’d have to travel and many players would say, “Eh, another time.”

Again, I just feel like it’s catered to casual players so they can feel like they’ve gotten something done every time they log on.

What’s wrong with that? We don’t all have a squillion hours of free time and we don’t always like trekking back and forth over areas we’ve already spent a lot of time in.

dimgl.4786:

Why does it matter how many hours you, or I, have played?

Let’s take out the ‘casual sauce’ part of the reply. How is, in any way, what I have said incorrect? It’s my opinion that waypoints destroy immersion and make the world feel smaller, as well as ruin the amount of challenge it takes to traverse a map. Why is my opinion ‘wrong’?

It seems that this game caters to gamers who simply log on for a few hours and log off. That is why there are literally at least 12-20 waypoints a zone.

Did you play the original Guild Wars? Are you familiar with map travel in that game, how it’s an integral part of the lore? Waypoints are the next logical extention of that lore 250 years into the future. Removing this part of the lore would break immersion for many folks. I mean, get real. Asura do NOT go backwards in technology!

• Waypoints ruin immersion by allowing you to instantly go anywhere
Waypoints enhance immersion by taking the existing lore 250 years into the future.

• Waypoints make it easier to skip through dynamic content, so players may never see some content unless they are forced to explore the world
Waypoints make it easier to get to dynamic content by allowing you to get to the content more quickly. The Shatterer is up and you’re in Rata Sum, waypoint over and join the fight! You still need to explore on foot to unlock the waypoints in the first place, and to get 100% map completion it’s all about hoofing it.

• Rebuttal: the argument ‘simply don’t use them’ is ridiculous.
I agree fully with this… it is a ridiculous argument that adds nothing to the debate. The question is… if you remove them, Tyria is too big for walking alone which means you’ll need to replace them with something. But… what? Is this a stealth “mounts” thread?

VOLKON.1290:

dimgl.4786:

Why does it matter how many hours you, or I, have played?

Let’s take out the ‘casual sauce’ part of the reply. How is, in any way, what I have said incorrect? It’s my opinion that waypoints destroy immersion and make the world feel smaller, as well as ruin the amount of challenge it takes to traverse a map. Why is my opinion ‘wrong’?

It seems that this game caters to gamers who simply log on for a few hours and log off. That is why there are literally at least 12-20 waypoints a zone.

Did you play the original Guild Wars? Are you familiar with map travel in that game, how it’s an integral part of the lore? Waypoints are the next logical extention of that lore 250 years into the future. Removing this part of the lore would break immersion for many folks. I mean, get real. Asura do NOT go backwards in technology!

I’ve mentioned several times that the waypoint should system should MORE like Guild Wars, where only outposts had waypoints and waypoints were extremely far apart from each other. There were entire zones that did not have outposts and were only available after travelling through a previous one, for example, Mineral Springs.

I’ll go with you on this one dimgl considering I’ve seen some rather absurd places where the waypoints are at in my travels
If it’s near a camp or something Sure
But I’ve seen a few out in the middle of nowhere, near a bridge out in the middle of nowhere, or in the midst of an encounter area

I would like to see fewer waypoints and then ground mounts added.

Also you should only be able to travel from waypoint to waypoint and not from anywhere on the map.

dimgl.4786:

VOLKON.1290:

dimgl.4786:

Why does it matter how many hours you, or I, have played?

Let’s take out the ‘casual sauce’ part of the reply. How is, in any way, what I have said incorrect? It’s my opinion that waypoints destroy immersion and make the world feel smaller, as well as ruin the amount of challenge it takes to traverse a map. Why is my opinion ‘wrong’?

It seems that this game caters to gamers who simply log on for a few hours and log off. That is why there are literally at least 12-20 waypoints a zone.

Did you play the original Guild Wars? Are you familiar with map travel in that game, how it’s an integral part of the lore? Waypoints are the next logical extention of that lore 250 years into the future. Removing this part of the lore would break immersion for many folks. I mean, get real. Asura do NOT go backwards in technology!

I’ve mentioned several times that the waypoint should system should MORE like Guild Wars, where only outposts had waypoints and waypoints were extremely far apart from each other. There were entire zones that did not have outposts and were only available after travelling through a previous one, for example, Mineral Springs.

The difference being that GW1 was a fully instanced world. When you left the instance it reset back to the original state. While in there you could clear out all mobs leaving nothing left. Competely different scenario than compared to an open, dynamic world full of people where things are happening right now and you need to hop to where your friends are to join and/or help out.

Calavera.1086:

Also you should only be able to travel from waypoint to waypoint and not from anywhere on the map.

This and fixed costs based on zone levels

I think waypoints are essential to the game. How many people would be running various dungeons at level 80 if there were no waypoints? How many people do you think would bother going to Frostgorge if there were no waypoints? You’d have level 80s camped at the content of their choice. Some would camp by the dungeon they want to farm. Some would camp in Lion’s Arch. A majority would be in Cursed Shore and never ever leave.

The TP would be bare too. Who in their right mind would auction off the yellow drop they got in Orr, if it meant running/swimming all the way back to Lion’s Arch to pick up the profits? Or who would buy if they had to run/swim to LA to pick up the item they purchased on the TP?

How would guilds ever play together if they were on opposite ends of the map and had to spend an hour running to get where they’re going to meet up? And there would be no aimless sense of discovery and exploration going on. If I was trying to get somewhere special to meet up with friends or guildies, I’m going to ignore all the DEs along the way anyway. Plus I’d be bored and frustrated.

Honestly, if they removed waypoints, I’d stop playing and wouldn’t buy any expansions.

Those who want to get rid of waypoints are entitled to their opinion and to share it here in the forums. I respect that. But we have the right to respond with why we disagree.

Fortunately, I’m pretty sure ANet will never abandon waypoints. So this is all for naught.

By the way, I believe the majority of players like waypoints and would play less without them. People who want to remove waypoints often express the opinion that it would cause players to play together more often. That’s a noble and idealistic idea that i respect, but I think it would backfire. If ANet really did remove waypoints, people would either play less or travel less. It would probably make all the level 10-70 zones feel extremely empty.

I would sincerely like to see MORE waypoints added to the game. All you people who like to run everywhere, nobody is stopping you.

Travel was something FFXI got right. You’d have to board an airship, pay for it, and then you’d have to spend the time riding it to get to your destination. During your trip, you could even be attacked. There were quests on board and vendors. It felt like part of the world. It was faster than walking, but you didn’t insta-port.

Sure, some abilities were created to allow for a mark & teleport, but that was a limited magical device and you had to GET there to use it, and you could only mark one place at a time.

kKagari.6804:

Not because of the cost, I’m quite well off at the moment.

So I started my alt and this time I’m going through the game at an absolute snails pace; reading every bit of text, talking to every named NPC, and I’d say, the game is absolutely enjoyable in this sense. (I’m even playing with maximum up close camera, offset to the left for that personalized over the shoulder effect).

And I realize the thing that destroys the games sense of immersion, are the waypoints. There is a truly epic feeling going about the landscape like and explorer that is lost once you just teleport everywhere. I know what you’ll say now; just don’t use them, but the thing is; other people use them. Sure, they might not share the same sense of adventure as me, or their definition of it is different, I’m not here to judge them.

The thing is, without waypoints, we could all share an extra sense of camaraderie. Dying is going to suck way more because if no one saves you, you’ll have to restart at some camp far far away.

Or when people eventually travel back to Lions Arch; they’d have been away from a major city for a day or two, and their exploits would feel that much more grand, rather than just popping into the city every minute or so, like it is something in their backpack.

Actually a game I played recently sort of does this; Dragon’s Dogma. Granted the rest of the game wasn’t spectacular, the sense of ‘going out to adventure’ felt very true.

I love waypoints. I don’t have a ton of time to spend running around on foot. I’m willing to eat the coppers to get to where I need to go!

I love the idea of waypoints, but I’ve come to hate using them because of the cost. Dying hits you twice: once for the repair, and again for the waypoint. Ouch.

“Arenanet even made a video envisaging the ‘invasion’ nature of the DE chains there…”
You must have an awesome server because after hanging out in that zone for a couple days I just left. The DE chains never made it anywhere because there were never more than one or two people doing the DEs, and you cannot solo most of them. That, or they were broken: they seem to break fairly regularly.

dimgl.4786
It seems that this game caters to gamers who simply log on for a few hours and log off. That is why there are literally at least 12-20 waypoints a zone.

Well, thats not such a bad market to cater to. Of myself and six friends who play, hopefully a couple more soon, only two of us will get over a 2-3 hour long session to play in the average week. Once in awhile one of us will get a full weekend day, but they don’t often synch up. Since we also have different amounts of interest in having alts, we are also usually in different zones at different levels when we get on, so if we are going to get together and do anything in an hour or two we need fairly fast travel.

The main thing that generates a sense of a “populated world” for me is seeing people at DEs. I’ll see how well that keeps up in the 40-70 zones as I progress (only one of us has made it to 40 yet, just a couple of days ago). I’ve read they may be more thinly populated.

Cinaed.2649:

Travel was something FFXI got right. You’d have to board an airship, pay for it, and then you’d have to spend the time riding it to get to your destination. During your trip, you could even be attacked. There were quests on board and vendors. It felt like part of the world. It was faster than walking, but you didn’t insta-port.

Sure, some abilities were created to allow for a mark & teleport, but that was a limited magical device and you had to GET there to use it, and you could only mark one place at a time.

The lore and settings of GW2 and FFXI are completely different. The world of Tyria is much more advanced in terms of technology. Teleportation in particular has been part of the lore for centuries. What logical (in terms of lore) reason would there be to remove it?

Waypoints are not just for travel. They are checkpoints you rez from when you are defeated.

Take the Fire Elemental event in Metrica Province that routinely wipes dozens of players at a time. It’s barely done now graveyard zerging from the camp outside the reactor… how many folks are going to bother if the closest rez point is in the next “major city” Soren Draa at the opposite end of the zone?

Now suddenly the creators of that segment of the world get cheated by no one playing that content… but whatever. I’m here to have fun playing a game, not fulfill some artists emotional needs.

The easiest thing to do would be to remove the Lion’s Arch portal from WvW. Keeps the traveling PVE’ers out and increases the world size when you cant warp to any major city on the continent for free.

I worry how many people use “it breaks immersion” as a catch-all excuse.

Dragons, magic, robot/golom things, tree people, centaurs, all kinds of weird and wonderful things are perfectly acceptable and apparently keep you immersed in the world… but if there’s teleportation it completely shatters immersion!

Can anyone explain some actual logic behind this?

Ryth.6518

Fast travel in a game does DESTROY immersion. It also destroys any sense of scale and massive size.
Look no further then WoW when they introduced flying mounts. Not only was the size of the world reduced dramatically, world PvP died. When they implemented a shorter hearthstone, teleports to zones, dungeon finder and more gryphon points, they destroyed the immersion even more. The world became empty

What utter BS. This is far from any sense of the truth. World PvP died with the implimentation of battle grounds and Arenas. BG’s and Arenas were brought on to combat GW 1. You don’t have a clue what your talking about.

So you want me to travel for an entire day? Not doing anything I want to do and being bored out of my mind….then spend the next day doing what I ACTUALLY want to do? Are you kitten kidding me? I know it may come as a shock, but a lot of people have family and jobs to do. I think the only people who can possibly enjoy that style of play have 8-10 hours they can play a day. I don’t have that amount of time. I have 2 hours maybe of downtime and some days I can’t play at all. I used to be able to play for hours every day, but ya know responsibilities came up. I know for one if waypoints were gone I’d be gone. I work all day as it is I don’t need to feel like I’m working in a virtual world too.

You act like travel takes FOREVER.

Running across a zone takes about 5 mins tops. If you have to travel to a few zones, sure it adds up if you run the whole way, but if you actually read what most of us have been saying we didn’t say get rid of ALL WAYPOINTS, we said get RID OF THE MAJORITY and LEAVE A MAJOR HUB in each zone.

And I have the same time as you…I play about 2 hours a night, not every night.

You all have to stop the drama queen acts of ‘ill quit this game if they do that’ etc…stop whining about having to actually travel some in the world that they built.

Valkaneer.7834:

Ryth.6518

Fast travel in a game does DESTROY immersion. It also destroys any sense of scale and massive size.
Look no further then WoW when they introduced flying mounts. Not only was the size of the world reduced dramatically, world PvP died. When they implemented a shorter hearthstone, teleports to zones, dungeon finder and more gryphon points, they destroyed the immersion even more. The world became empty

What utter BS. This is far from any sense of the truth. World PvP died with the implimentation of battle grounds and Arenas. BG’s and Arenas were brought on to combat GW 1. You don’t have a clue what your talking about.

Only BS son is what you are spouting. Go take a look at how WoW started doing after they added more FP, Dungeon Teleports, DF and so on.

BGs and Arenas were brought on to combat server lag and massive populations forming at TM/SS fights and other locations. Even the developers talked about this in vanilla and how they wanted to lessen server lag due to the mass amount of world pvp at certain spots…enter BGs.

You don’t have a clue to what you are talking about.

Skolvikings.5132:

By the way, I believe the majority of players like waypoints and would play less without them. People who want to remove waypoints often express the opinion that it would cause players to play together more often. That’s a noble and idealistic idea that i respect, but I think it would backfire. If ANet really did remove waypoints, people would either play less or travel less. It would probably make all the level 10-70 zones feel extremely empty.

Actually the proof is the opposite. WoW experienced a massive drop off in players due to world dying out…people sat in cities waiting for queues to pop, used ports to get to every dungeon or were summoned, and flew everywhere via personal mounts…killing off the world.

Proof is in the pudding. Lots of posts on the old WoW forums and it’s why Blizzard went so hard into getting people back into the world and removing flying as long as they could in the xpac.

If it wasn’t for waypoints we would all want horses which most likely cost 100 g or even gems . Waypoints work just fine .

kKagari.6804:

The thing is, without waypoints, we could all share an extra sense of camaraderie. Dying is going to suck way more because if no one saves you, you’ll have to restart at some camp far far away.

Honestly don’t want to see a return to punitive death mechanics. We are way better off without them

But on your point: waypoints are a tricky balancing act. I kinda like them here but also did like the gryphon travel from EQ2 and WoW.

The WPs here leave it up to the player.

• The faster and more frequent traveling allows players to define their social hubs themselves. The obvious ones emerge because they also include all the other services. But
• It makes PUGs much easier to start, particularly important for World Events and dungeons. A good LFG tool will enhance this. But unlike earlier games that didn’t have that nor fast travel, it’s much easier to group in GW2 just because of the map itself.
• It solves for inventory management problems, the time suck of having to re-run through content/mobs you’ve already memorized. Nobody likes inventory management…
• They considerably lowers the barrier on crafting for folks who maybe want to give it a shot but wouldn’t want to keep wasting time heading to a city or hub just to try it/
• You won’t over use them if you are farming resources for that crafting.

I liked the gryphons because it did always give you a sense of the world size. And gryphons would really only be intra-zone anyway because GW2 is zone-based game rather than seamless.

GW2 answers that a bit with View Points and some rather impressive vistas.

Anyway, as this thread shows: YMMV

Can someone please explain to me why an immersive world cannot have teleportation?

Especially when it already has portals, magic and monsters?

I agree with the poster (can’t find their post right now) who mentioned that waypoints make it more likely I’ll wander off to explore, since I can get back quickly. Nothing worse than wandering down a beautiful valley, thinking you must surely be able to go around that mountain and finding that you can’t. Then having to walk all the way back, get lost halfway, and…

I also agree with the OP that the world feels more full when people have to move through it. Even if that means mounts or or (flying) taxi’s of some kind. On the other having to wait on the guy who has to take 5 flights to get to you is a pain. A real pain. Which then leads to classes that can summon, and in GW2 I guess every class would have to be able to summon, right? Which really tears the world apart when you can be summoned to a specific spot in the world.

I think there are a whole bunch of transport issues that need to be distinguished: 1) coming back from a death, 2) personal transport, 3) public transport, 4) transport to join your associates, 5) transport from the field to town to sell/repair, etc.

Valkaneer.7834:

Look no further then WoW when they introduced flying mounts. Not only was the size of the world reduced dramatically, world PvP died. When they implemented a shorter hearthstone, teleports to zones, dungeon finder and more gryphon points, they destroyed the immersion even more. The world became empty

I never experienced the world as empty. I imagine world PvP died out because it’s stupid: you want to login and do a few things with friends (or maybe spend a half hour solo’ing) and your experience can be ruined by bored level 80’s? Arenas and battlegrounds made much more sense, and between the stupidity of world PvP and structured PvP, world PvP died a well-deserved death.

If you want to be forced to literally travel everywhere and to be subjected to NPC and player attacks at any point along the way, play EVE. That’s all about griefing. GW2, by design, is a cooperative game and many of us like it that way.

This is my opinion based on leveling an alt now that the initial rush of the game is done.

I understand that waypoints were intended on being a gold sink, however the problem being is that when you put a gold sink into something that is associated with movement you inherently have people then only congregate in areas that make money. Limiting movement means that people won’t come quickly to assist in an event at any level. If a person is at the opposite side of a zone and an event is occurring where someone has called out for help the likelyhood they will waypoint over and help is vastly diminished and this means that people in zones are typically experiencing them by themselves. This seems counter to the way we had hoped to play the game.
I just wanted to throw out a suggestion and see what people thought about as a solution.
Remove the cost of Waypoints but perhaps increase the repair cost (in general PVE only not dungeons or wvwvw). The slight increase in repair would offset the gold sink of the Waypoint.
I just feel that if people felt free to travel you would see more people willing to help each other out on events and that people would head to other zones. I just think that the waypoint system is flawed right now and that flaw has the impact on the sense of community

I know what you mean about them being immersion breaking, OP. I agree. Actually for myself, I would prefer they were not in the game, except for one important thing – the load times between areas is too large, and sometimes it actually prevents me from going places. I work in games myself, so I understand why this is (my crappy hard drive also contributes to this), but still it’s a shame that the world isn’t seamless in this sense.

I personally wish they would make one or two “hardcore” servers for GW2 which just didn’t have waypoints, and maybe notched the downleveled difficulty up a bit. If they did those two things, I think the immersion level would go up for me at least by a large amount.

Hawken.7932:

I know what you mean about them being immersion breaking, OP.

Then perhaps you can explain, because no one else will.

This game has portals which instantly transport you. It has magic and monsters. How do waypoints “break the immersion”?

:edit:

Immersive worlds are worlds that are coherent, have an interior logic, contain history, geography, surface, metaphor, respond to and drive narrative, and allow an audience to be fully immersed in both environment and story.

Basically, believable enough to get lost in.

How does the waypoint system stop you from believing?

Imo waypoints are really good idea. I missed something like that in so many mmorpg’s.

Of course, the alternative is WoW’s 15 minute griffin rides across the world. I’m gonna stick with my waypoints.

I to dislike way points. I’d much rather there be a more balanced for a travel personally. I’m one of those people that like the world to feel huge and having the adventure of having to figure out how to get to the other side of it (some day).

I’d rather they have a taxi system of sorts that was fun and excited to use. Maybe a blimp that you could ride to certian locations. Sure there could be portals in certain locations that would take you to other locations like the portals in LA. But you have to figure out how to actaully get to those.

It dosn’t nessesarily have to take a day to get somewhere but I wish personally that it was tougher to get around myself. Just my 2 cents.

Lower the amount of waypoints and give us ground mounts with a slight speed buff.

…..and now I will prepare for the shunning and verbal abuse.

This isn’t WoW. WoW’s model is to create as many time-sinks as they can so as to extend peoples’ subscriptions as long as humanly possible. (Two days till I’ll allowed to cancel mine!)

This is not an issue in GW2. If people aren’t having fun within a few minutes of playing it, they’ll quit out and tell their friends not to buy it. GW2’s revenue model involves people having a good time without staring at their screen doing kitten-all for 10, 15 minutes or more.

If you don’t like the waypoints, no one’s stopping you from running from zone to zone.

Shootsfoot.9276:

I would like to see fewer waypoints and then ground mounts added.

Yes please! +1

I stopped using waypoints a couple weeks ago, much more rewarding game as a result. I agree there should be less.

I always thought flying mounts killed the sense of wonder in World of Warcraft… worlds seem much smaller and less threatening when you can just fly over all of it

When I heard Guild Wars 2 was not going to include flying mounts and all had to be on foot, i thought to myself “finally, a developer gets it!”

But its much worse in this game… flying over obstacles? How about you just teleporting to it. I understand some people dont have enough time. I actualy like waypoints, but the way they implemented it doesnt feel right for me.

There is also too many of them. A map should have only 3 or 1 waypoints max for each zone. There is no need to have a waypoint to every single location in the zone. You can teleport from anwhere, anytime. This is worse than flying mounts, because if you end up in a dangerous spot, you can just teleport out of it. I wish you could only teleport if you are standing near the waypoint… you know, like a taxi hub.

You want to take some of them away AND only be able to use them if standing near them? Again, some of us like actually doing stuff other than traveling, and no one is stopping you from taking the scenic route.

I love the waypoints. I also love exploring, and enjoy unlocking waypoints and traveling through this very well-developed world. You can’t zap around the world without having gotten there first. That’s a very fair system that encourages exploration.

As others have mentioned, however, I can’t comprehend how the presence of teleportation breaks immersion in a world where every other person possesses awesome magical talents that turn pieces of wood and iron into laser-beaming, creature-summoning, magic-launching, teleport-enabling weapons.

Meeooww.3742:

Don’t push your beliefs into others. Other players might feel the opposite way you feel.

Is he pushing his beliefs onto us, though? I think you’re overreacting a little.

Thunderpork.4281:

Meeooww.3742:

Don’t push your beliefs into others. Other players might feel the opposite way you feel.

Is he pushing his beliefs onto us, though? I think you’re overreacting a little.

A call to remove waypoints is indeed pushing beliefs. The OP believes he would enjoy the game more if waypoints were gone. When you don’t want the waypoints removed, then the other person’s desire to have them gone would indeed conflict with your desire to have the waypoints available.

Personally, I do not believe that removing waypoints would increase the number of people doing things in various areas. People do things because they want to, and don’t because they don’t want to. If people are forced to run through zones, they will run through zones, without stopping to smell the virtual flowers, feel the virtual raindrops or do DE’s. Or worse, they would stop playing.

Leave the waypoints. Exercise choice in using them. I waypoint infrequently. When I do, it is because I don’t want to fight a mob every 35’ to get to where I want to go.

Thunderpork.4281:

Meeooww.3742:

Don’t push your beliefs into others. Other players might feel the opposite way you feel.

Is he pushing his beliefs onto us, though? I think you’re overreacting a little.

There are lines like this one: “I know what you’ll say now; just don’t use them, but the thing is; other people use them.”

If not using them is unacceptable because other people will still be using them, yes… he is trying to force his own preference on the rest of us.

For a game that places such a high value on it’s world-building and visual aesthetic I find waypoints to be counterproductive.

It makes the world feel like a series disconnected zones rather than….a world. Loading screens etc. do their own part at contributing to that factor.

It makes me sad to imagine just how much better the game would be without all the waypoints and loadscreen…if we just had 1 seamlessly explorable world rather than a collection of zones.

Dee Jay.2460:

For a game that places such a high value on it’s world-building and visual aesthetic I find waypoints to be counterproductive.

It makes the world feel like a series disconnected zones rather than….a world. Loading screens etc. do their own part at contributing to that factor.

It makes me sad to imagine just how much better the game would be without all the waypoints and loadscreen…if we just had 1 seamlessly explorable world rather than a collection of zones.

For a game with a downleveling system allowing you to be able to play all over the entire game world regardless of whether the content is your level (except content higher than you :P), I find limiting people to walking to be counterproductive.

Zone size (or zones vs seamless) is a completely unrelated issue and one which is far more technical.

some people play on hours and areas where no one is ever on. (orr at 4am). It’s hard to find a group. I wanna respawn at least on the same map. Not 4 maps away.

The cost of waypoints is another game breaker for me.

I do tend to walk everwhere now.

But it also stops the social aspect of the game ArenaNet claimed they wanted to maintain.

For me, it stops me waypointing about a map to join a party, waypointing to a DE some way away, returning to town, going to the bank or trading post, waypointing between zones, going to res somebody if they are a fair way away, or helping people if I have to waypoint there. (And many more things).
GW2 is pretty much a single player game, and the cost of waypoints just make it worse.