Guild Wars 2

I bet free core game will have lvl limitation also they will be locked off from tradeingpost and mail trade like beta character’s otherwize ppl will create insane ammounts of now accounts and make money from daily rewards

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Wildkitten.3872:

Maraxis.4238:

Wildkitten.3872:

There will not be raids like people think of when you think of WoW or other games. Will never happen. Will there be like possible 8 or 10 person content like we saw in GW1 with Underworld and Fissure of Woe, likely. But it won’t be anything like what people think of when it comes to raiding.

I know, it’s a little disheartening. But I can dream right XD either way excited to see the GW2 take on things.

No, it’s not disheartening. It’s refreshing that GW is a game that doesn’t force it’s player base to feel like they have a job to play the game, to run the same 1 or 2 instances 4 hours a night for 4 or 5 nights a week for months on end only to have the gear replaced within 2 days of an expansion coming out.

And for the record, I was in one of the top WoW guilds on Black Dragonflight with quite a few server firsts. I don’t say that to brag because honestly it was nothing to brag about. Raids may be good for games designed around it but GW is not one of those games. For one thing, if they were to bring in WoW style raids, within 1 day we would see forum topics of “Hey, I’m a special snowflake raider and it’s not fair someone can get to 80 and have the same stat gear and skins as I do. You need to make raiding gear different and better!!!!”. And then when the second raid would come out “How dare you not put better stats on this raids gear than on the other one!!! I’ll quit if you don’t treat me special!!!”

That right there is one of the biggest problems with bringing raids here.

They say “we just want hard content” “we just enjoy playing a good challenge”
But the instant they play their harder content and find out it’s not also more rewarding than the stuff being played by the casual scum it becomes "it’s harder it should reward better “why would anyone play it if it doesn’t offer better gear?”
“I need unique skins and better stats so all those peasants know I’m better than they are”

If they were really into it for the challenge it wouldn’t matter what the reward was.
But it’s never about the challenge.

Well for starters, I’m praying GW2 “raids” is more akin to GW1 Elite Missions. The Elite Missions in GW1 was very well received with it’s rare loots and everything, I don’t see how that cannot be replicated in GW2.

I know when the word “raid” drops, everyone goes directly to WoW-mode, but for once, don’t do that. Think of Anet’s concept of that as something completely different, built around 8-12 people (akin to GW1).

Also challenging content always gives better content. Look at SAB -> it provided epic 8-bit skins for those who were good enough to finish the ridiculously difficult Tribulation Mode, or to those who were VERY patient and dedicated to complete it. And yes, we all know that Tribulation mode took hours to complete!! And don’t tell me people don’t do it, the SAB entrance was almost always flooded with people.

Consider this: If you work overtime IRL, do you not get paid extra? I sure as kitten do, I won’t be staying in the office longer than I need to, unless of course they provide an incentive, which in this case is overtime pay (which is often a higher percentage than your base pay).

The concept is really simple: work hard / play well → get rewarded.

Also before you say anything NOTHING is mandatory in GW2 and there are PLENTY of people who are here to HELP/ASSIST you, you only just need to get out of your “raids gg” mentality and ask people

free game is a good thing. I just hope there are some limits, so that the game as we know it now won’t change too much.

The only thing the SMS announcement suggests is that the F2P starts on Saturday.

We’ve seen recently that ANet hates RMT with a passion, so F2P will have chat restrictions and likely a few more CS people whose sole job during this rollout is to smack down reported RMT spammers. So everyone, Report and Block.

We’ve also seen in the past that ANet is very sensitive about the economy. So I doubt that F2P will get login rewards. However I see that both T6 mats and Mystic Coins taking a dive on the TP already as supply balloons so my opinion is in the minority here.

Anyhow we will see tomorrow, so until then, remain calm.

Anet PLEASE what ever you DO NOT make GW2 ftp im ok with a trial accounts with chat, mail, guilds and trade post all lock and a max level of 15 or something but please don’t make ftp. but if they do go down that path only give players spvp with a taste of pve’s starter zones and the first chapter of the story. Because im not looking forward to destroying the friendly community of GW2. Just take a look at call of dutys

XJamo.1930:

Anet PLEASE what ever you DO NOT make GW2 ftp im ok with a trial accounts with chat, mail, guilds and trade post all lock and a max level of 15 or something but please don’t make ftp. but if they do go down that path only give players spvp with a taste of pve’s starter zones and the first chapter of the story. Because im not looking forward to destroying the friendly community of GW2. Just take a look at call of dutys

Read before you post.

http://dulfy.net/2015/08/27/gw2-getting-raids-with-core-game-being-free/

I can’t wait for everyone insisting that this is going to be trial accounts only to react when ArenaNet announces tomorrow that the core game will be fully free.

The datamined free trial information is not relevant. It is no more relevant than the datamined Elementalist sword skills were relevant when new datamining turned up warhorn instead. ArenaNet puts tons of things into the game client without actually following up on them. What this datamining shows is that, in 2014, they were considering adding a free trial option—that’s all.

It doesn’t mean that’s what this “F2P” will be. It doesn’t mean that it isn’t, either. It just means that the datamined information is old enough that it does not matter to this discussion one way or another, no matter how much you want it to.

XJamo.1930:

Because im not looking forward to destroying the friendly community of GW2. Just take a look at call of dutys

You know that Call of Duty costs money, right?

Haha the irony.

if it’s a trail then i hope it’s spammed with chat limitations, if they really are gonna make the core game free then i expect them to put HoT in every account who payed at least €70,- for their account.
i payed €150,- for GW2 + all the gems i payed for, making the core game free would be the worst move of the history of Anet and that includes the first trait system change and the NPE veterans are getting sick and tired of.

gem buying should not factor, it was a donation with benifects. Also why you getting upsetover this, when we really have a leak rumor that is ut of context.

FTP = so much for farming as everyone will now do it w/out even buying the game and crash TP prices …. please anet, issue restrictions like no email/guild/tp for free users

A thought experiment:

Let’s say you buy VIDEO GAME, which is developed by COOL DEVELOPER STUDIOS, on Steam for $60 when it launches, and play it a bunch, and buy some DLC for it along the way. You still play it sometimes because it has good replay value.

Three years later, it goes on Steam sale for, let’s say, $5, all DLC included. Do you deserve something more in the game than someone who bought the game for a lot less does? Does COOL DEVELOPER STUDIOS owe you your money back because the game you paid $60+DLC prices for three years ago is now so cheap as to almost be free? (I realize this is not a perfect analogue, as the game is not literally free in this situation, but it’s an extremely similar scenario.)

That’s my problem with this argument of “I paid full price for this game three years ago and now some jerks are going to get it for free, I deserve something special” that I’m seeing. Those of us who bought the game on launch—like me—do not deserve anything special for it. You know what we got for our money? Three years of access to the game that a free-to-play person did not have. Price changes—even when the price changes to 0—have no bearing on what something cost in the past.

Notice, too, how you can’t even buy the base game from ArenaNet’s website anymore. You can only buy Heart of Thorns. This is probably to avoid situations in which someone buys the base game, say, on August 25, and then free to play launches a week later, and they get screwed. It’s a bit of an ethically-gray way around it—“you bought Heart of Thorns, not the base game!”—but it’s a lot better than the alternative. I could understand being upset in that case, especially if you decide you don’t like the game and never end up playing Heart of Thorns (in a free to play scenario, you’d have tried the game for free and decided you didn’t like it).

sorudo.9054:

if it’s a trail then i hope it’s spammed with chat limitations, if they really are gonna make the core game free then i expect them to put HoT in every account who payed at least €70,- for their account.
i payed €150,- for GW2 + all the gems i payed for, making the core game free would be the worst move of the history of Anet and that includes the first trait system change and the NPE veterans are getting sick and tired of.

I paid 0,15€ for my cell phone a year and a half after it was released though people bought it for more than 100€ at release. Should I have a limited autonomy, less space to save my data on it? Should the first customers be granted the next generation for free?
In both cases the first customers enjoyed the phone or the game ahead, that is something new customers won’t have anymore. In the case of the game you experienced season 1 and 2 in live for free which will not happen for new customers. You paid for being here when it was trendy.

Jski.6180:

XJamo.1930:

Anet PLEASE what ever you DO NOT make GW2 ftp im ok with a trial accounts with chat, mail, guilds and trade post all lock and a max level of 15 or something but please don’t make ftp. but if they do go down that path only give players spvp with a taste of pve’s starter zones and the first chapter of the story. Because im not looking forward to destroying the friendly community of GW2. Just take a look at call of dutys

Read before you post.

http://dulfy.net/2015/08/27/gw2-getting-raids-with-core-game-being-free/

every link in that dulfy post has been taken down.

Agent Noun.7350:

I can’t wait for everyone insisting that this is going to be trial accounts only to react when ArenaNet announces tomorrow that the core game will be fully free.

The datamined free trial information is not relevant. It is no more relevant than the datamined Elementalist sword skills were relevant when new datamining turned up warhorn instead. ArenaNet puts tons of things into the game client without actually following up on them. What this datamining shows is that, in 2014, they were considering adding a free trial option—that’s all.

It doesn’t mean that’s what this “F2P” will be. It doesn’t mean that it isn’t, either. It just means that the datamined information is old enough that it does not matter to this discussion one way or another, no matter how much you want it to.

XJamo.1930:

Because im not looking forward to destroying the friendly community of GW2. Just take a look at call of dutys

You know that Call of Duty costs money, right?

Could we call you out if your wrong then?

BrotherBelial.3094:

every link in that dulfy post has been taken down.

Still works for me.

Jski.6180:

Could we call you out if your wrong then?

That would only be fair.

Jski.6180:

XJamo.1930:

Anet PLEASE what ever you DO NOT make GW2 ftp im ok with a trial accounts with chat, mail, guilds and trade post all lock and a max level of 15 or something but please don’t make ftp. but if they do go down that path only give players spvp with a taste of pve’s starter zones and the first chapter of the story. Because im not looking forward to destroying the friendly community of GW2. Just take a look at call of dutys

Read before you post.

http://dulfy.net/2015/08/27/gw2-getting-raids-with-core-game-being-free/

Take your own advice, that free trial information is over a year old. Its from the September 2014 free trial weekend event.

Agent Noun.7350:

The datamined free trial information is not relevant.

Perhaps.

But this part is still very much relevant:

In order to keep the Free Trial enjoyable for everyone, we’ve placed some restrictions on what characters on Trial accounts can do. For example, to minimize gold spamming, Trial characters can only whisper and send mail to people who have added them to their Friends list. Map chat, sales on the Trading Post, Gems, and WvW battlegrounds (excluding the Edge of the Mists) are also restricted.

So… what has changed since then? They dont want the game to be enjoyable for everyone anymore? If Anet would drop this bomb without any restrictions at all they are basicly saying kitten you to everyone (and themselves).

Dawdler.8521:

Agent Noun.7350:

The datamined free trial information is not relevant.

Perhaps.

But this part which is a direct quote from Anet themselves is still very much relevant:

In order to keep the Free Trial enjoyable for everyone, we’ve placed some restrictions on what characters on Trial accounts can do. For example, to minimize gold spamming, Trial characters can only whisper and send mail to people who have added them to their Friends list. Map chat, sales on the Trading Post, Gems, and WvW battlegrounds (excluding the Edge of the Mists) are also restricted.

So… what has changed since then? They dont want the game to be enjoyable for everyone anymore? If Anet would drop this bomb without any restrictions at all they are basicly saying kitten you to everyone (and themselves).

Its very hard to make an argument vs ppl who see things and think things are always going to go bad i would not try to use to much logic or time on them.

Knighthonor.4061:

Menadena.7482:

Thanks for spoiling it for us ign. I guess I know who NOT to get my gaming news from now as every game maker now knows you do not know the definition of ‘embargo’.

I hate how people like you pretent you dont look at spoiler feature reveals from That_Shaman….but when ign do it all hell breaks loose

Actually, I do not. TYVM. Or if you want to get technical I do not seek him out. The only time I even look at his pages is when someone else here has spoiled it and given a link to the article.

Dawdler.8521:

Agent Noun.7350:

The datamined free trial information is not relevant.

Perhaps.

But this part is still very much relevant:

In order to keep the Free Trial enjoyable for everyone, we’ve placed some restrictions on what characters on Trial accounts can do. For example, to minimize gold spamming, Trial characters can only whisper and send mail to people who have added them to their Friends list. Map chat, sales on the Trading Post, Gems, and WvW battlegrounds (excluding the Edge of the Mists) are also restricted.

So… what has changed since then? They dont want the game to be enjoyable for everyone anymore? If Anet would drop this bomb without any restrictions at all they are basicly saying kitten you to everyone (and themselves).

Oh, I agree with that. I forgot to mention in my post that there’s one other thing we can learn from the datamining, other than to know that ArenaNet experimented with a free trial in the past: it’s that ArenaNet have already considered, and likely are still considering, the impact that opening the floodgates will have.

Ultimately, I’m optimistic about free to play. My guess is that there will be no content restrictions—anything currently in the core game will likely be free—but rather restrictions on trading and communication to prevent botting from crashing the economy and prevent gold sellers from having an even easier time spamming.

Jski.6180:

Its very hard to make an argument vs ppl who see things and think things are always going to go bad i would not try to use to much logic or time on them.

I never meant to suggest this would be a disaster, or that there would be no restrictions. I only mean that the datamined info probably can’t tell us what restrictions there will be, because it’s old enough that things have likely changed drastically.

Behellagh.1468:

So I doubt that F2P will get login rewards.

Will they stop at just login rewards? If a player can log into 10 accounts every day just for JP rewards, that’s a lot of free gold.

On the other hand, the more they restrict the F2P version the more GW2 looks like a P2W game in the eyes of those who play for free.

Is it too much to say “in b4 gib moni plez” ?

Ranael.6423:

sorudo.9054:

if it’s a trail then i hope it’s spammed with chat limitations, if they really are gonna make the core game free then i expect them to put HoT in every account who payed at least €70,- for their account.
i payed €150,- for GW2 + all the gems i payed for, making the core game free would be the worst move of the history of Anet and that includes the first trait system change and the NPE veterans are getting sick and tired of.

I paid 0,15€ for my cell phone a year and a half after it was released though people bought it for more than 100€ at release. Should I have a limited autonomy, less space to save my data on it? Should the first customers be granted the next generation for free?
In both cases the first customers enjoyed the phone or the game ahead, that is something new customers won’t have anymore. In the case of the game you experienced season 1 and 2 in live for free which will not happen for new customers. You paid for being here when it was trendy.

i paid so they can make HoT, later purchases didn’t make such a big contribution.
also, you don’t get less when you buy it later on, you get just as much just without the benefit of buying it earlier.

Sylum.1806:

Devildoc.6721:

mrstealth.6701:

Devildoc.6721:

Once the F2P floodgates open you will see the quality of players from those countries who can’t even afford to pay $10. They don’t speak English, they’re extremely rude players that harass people because they feel their country should ‘take over’ the server.

As much as I’d like to just dismiss claims like this as stereotyping…I can’t. Because I’ve seen it happen in other games. It’s, of course, not all of the players from these countries. But there can be a large number of them, as well as English-speakers that are just as disruptive.

I don’t recall seeing a lot of that in Tera when I played for a while earlier this year. Though, chats were still rather bad at times(worse than anything I’ve seen in GW2). So it does seem that phenomenon can be one that doesn’t last. But it certainly does happen to at least some games that make a F2P move.

It was really bad when TERA first went F2P. I picked up the game for $10 the week before it went F2P just to check it out, that first week, it wasn’t all that bad. But THE DAY it went F2P it became flooded with BR’s, flooding chat, harassing anyone speaking in a language other than Portuguese, sending you whispers about how this was “their server now” and you’d find gangs of people with brazilian flags as their guild logo running around kill stealing from anyone NOT using a Brazilian flag guild or with .Br in their name, or all flagging and gang pk’ing people (until level capped non BR’s came by and slaughtered them all (and then they got harassed in tells)). It was a terrible community and made me uninstall. I recently reinstalled and am playing again on a different server and it’s not quite as bad so you might be right about it not being a lasting deterioration of community.

But I for one dread that first month or so of F2P players.

As someone who played only Free-to-play MMOs before GW2, and as someone who works for a Free-to-play MMO developer/publisher, I can safely say:

1. Putting an entry barrier to an MMO such as an upfront payment before one can play the game, does not eliminate jerks from the game. Some of them can still afford it.

2. Jerks transcend nationality. They come from everywhere.

3. Putting an entry barrier to an MMO greatly reduces the number of jerks and nasty behavior. Exactly why, I’m not sure. Most jerks are cheapskates? Most jerks are just broke? I don’t know. But with my very small sample size of experiencing 1 non-F2P MMO (GW2) vs. all the other MMOs I’ve played, I can confidently say, the GW2 community is the most civilized, helpful, cerebral, and least self-entitled I’ve ever come across.

Which is why I’m still playing this game since launch.

But I can see great value in the F2P demographic. They just need to be channeled to the game in a right (smart?) way. Only way I can see them being a beneficial presence instead of a disruptive one, is limiting them purely to Heart of the Mists, with no access to Map Chat, Whisper Chat, Mail, and Trading Post.

That way, GW2 gets the potential esports competitive population it needs, and keeps the jerks away from the paying crowd and where they need to coordinate and socialize the most.

Well my experience comes from subscription games that never go F2P/B2P (WoW, though there are all kinds there just because it’s the biggest population period it’s a very mixed community, some good, some bad), subscription games that went F2P (LotRO, SWTOR, TERA, AoC) where the community flooded with obnoxious players the very day it went F2P and especially ones that don’t speak English, a game that was subscription that went B2P (ESO) which did NOT get flooded with obnoxious players after it changed business model, it got a bump in active players but they’ve been the same quality as those who were playing when subbed. Sure there’s some jerks but chat is still in English and the jerks are the exception to the rule rather than the norm, and then GW1 and GW2 which (as of right now) have been B2P from the start and have had communities of good quality players who are invested into the game, jerks are the exception not the norm.

I mean it’s no peer reviewed study, but from my experience the initial paywall does filter out most of the undesirable players…. and keeps chat in English on NA servers.

@ Agent Noun.7350
It sounds like you are going for that point of view if you think it going to have a major changes to it. The last even went well with this system to have major changes to it will cause a lot of new problems. You may not be aiming to sound like its going to be a bad thing but your point of view is going to come to the conclusion that it is.

Your simply not applying your point of view to the real effects of going full f2p. Your not critically thinking about what will happen. I hope not by chose to my your point of view seem more ture.

CandyHearts.6025:

Is it too much to say “in b4 gib moni plez” ?

Roses are Red
Violets are Blue
Gib moni pls
or I report u
HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

Jski.6180:

@ Agent Noun.7350
It sounds like you are going for that point of view if you think it going to have a major changes to it. The last even went well with this system to have major changes to it will cause a lot of new problems. You may not be aiming to sound like its going to be a bad thing but your point of view is going to come to the conclusion that it is.

Your simply not applying your point of view to the real effects of going full f2p. Your not critically thinking about what will happen. I hope not by chose to my your point of view seem more ture.

But I do think there will be restrictions. ArenaNet has clearly considered that—like I said, another thing we can learn from the datamining is that ArenaNet is aware there are things that have to be considered when opening the game up for free, even in a limited way. If they were thinking about restricting limited trial accounts’ ability to communicate and trade, they’ll definitely do the same for free full accounts.

My prediction is:
- No content restrictions for the core game. The whole core game will be free.
- Communication restrictions, likely similar to the datamined ones. Free accounts will have limited use of map chat and can’t whisper people who haven’t added them as a friend.
- Trading restrictions. I expect free accounts will be able to trade, but may be limited in how often they can sell things on the Trading Post each day. They probably won’t be able to send gold or items through the mail at all.

Other restrictions really wouldn’t be necessary. Limited ability to trade and lack of ability to send items through the mail helps limit the effect botting would have, and communication restrictions helps prevent gold sellers and trolls from easily spamming people by using free accounts.

The new SMS/authenticator requirement helps, too. Gold sellers will certainly get around it, but for average people, this will prevent things like creating a dozen accounts to camp characters at JP chests. Not everyone, obviously—there are always ways around it—but these restrictions are often made with the intent of limiting consequences, not entirely erasing them (which is often impossible).

Well they are giving the core game away for free with HoT for new players. It is a short logical step to give the core game free to anyone who wants to play, which would equal F2P (minus the expansion).

Devildoc.6721:

CandyHearts.6025:

Is it too much to say “in b4 gib moni plez” ?

Roses are Red
Violets are Blue
Gib moni pls
or I report u
HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

Grrrrrr.

I was drinking coffee right then and reading the forum on my iPad. I’ll have you know that coffee and iPads are NOT compatible!

(Now where is that towel?)

Devildoc.6721:

CandyHearts.6025:

Is it too much to say “in b4 gib moni plez” ?

Roses are Red
Violets are Blue
Gib moni pls
or I report u
HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

These lines haunt me. -_-

Im not sure how to feel about this F2P business… the first thing that comes to mind is League of Legends.

Dont get me wrong, its a great game.. but their community of players has to be the worst I have ever seen in online gaming.. Its straight toxic and they have not figured out a way to fix it.

Now Arenanet would like to go the same route? Lol.. man SPVP will be the new grounds for trolls especially with the introduction of leagues. If this goes through we can kiss our good little community goodbye.

Agent Noun.7350:

Jski.6180:

@ Agent Noun.7350
It sounds like you are going for that point of view if you think it going to have a major changes to it. The last even went well with this system to have major changes to it will cause a lot of new problems. You may not be aiming to sound like its going to be a bad thing but your point of view is going to come to the conclusion that it is.

Your simply not applying your point of view to the real effects of going full f2p. Your not critically thinking about what will happen. I hope not by chose to my your point of view seem more ture.

But I do think there will be restrictions. ArenaNet has clearly considered that—like I said, another thing we can learn from the datamining is that ArenaNet is aware there are things that have to be considered when opening the game up for free, even in a limited way. If they were thinking about restricting limited trial accounts’ ability to communicate and trade, they’ll definitely do the same for free full accounts.

My prediction is:
- No content restrictions for the core game. The whole core game will be free.
- Communication restrictions, likely similar to the datamined ones. Free accounts will have limited use of map chat and can’t whisper people who haven’t added them as a friend.
- Trading restrictions. I expect free accounts will be able to trade, but may be limited in how often they can sell things on the Trading Post each day. They probably won’t be able to send gold or items through the mail at all.

Other restrictions really wouldn’t be necessary. Limited ability to trade and lack of ability to send items through the mail helps limit the effect botting would have, and communication restrictions helps prevent gold sellers and trolls from easily spamming people by using free accounts.

The new SMS/authenticator requirement helps, too. Gold sellers will certainly get around it, but for average people, this will prevent things like creating a dozen accounts to camp characters at JP chests. Not everyone, obviously—there are always ways around it—but these restrictions are often made with the intent of limiting consequences, not entirely erasing them (which is often impossible).

You would have to limit access to WvW to just EotM. It’s bad enough dealing with siege trolls and spies as it is without adding free accounts to the mix.

Free accounts (without careful restrictions) means both spies everywhere, as well as trying to stuff the opponents servers with dead weight accounts to limit the number of actual players that can get into WvW maps.
Some people will do anything to get an edge.

Never underestimate ArenaNet’s / NCsoft’s ability to screw things up.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Free accounts (without careful restrictions) means both spies everywhere, as well as trying to stuff the opponents servers with dead weight accounts to limit the number of actual players that can get into WvW maps.
Some people will do anything to get an edge.

Somebody is taking WvW WAY to seriously.

Devildoc.6721:

CandyHearts.6025:

Is it too much to say “in b4 gib moni plez” ?

Roses are Red
Violets are Blue
Gib moni pls
or I report u
HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

Dying and crying all at once. xD

Uriel.6310:

Im not sure how to feel about this F2P business… the first thing that comes to mind is League of Legends.

Dont get me wrong, its a great game.. but their community of players has to be the worst I have ever seen in online gaming.. Its straight toxic and they have not figured out a way to fix it.

Now Arenanet would like to go the same route? Lol.. man SPVP will be the new grounds for trolls especially with the introduction of leagues. If this goes through we can kiss our good little community goodbye.

I’m sure that this is not what you mean but I don’t see why there should be a correlation between how nice is a community and the amount of money people spent. Such thought could then be derived to say that CE buyers are nicer within the community while the 10 € players are some toxic newbies…. again not saying you said that but just that this would be an easy way to take.

More specifically for League, my experience was the higher rank you were the less toxic people were, even if all players were still F2P. On the other hand I played some PvP game on GW2 were some players were at least as toxic… so no correlation again.
I think the comunity is what the players and the game make it to be. This game and the previous one always had nice people playing for the fun, taking time to dress their barbie, exploring landscape, organising crazy events… there is no reason why more players arriving would end that.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Free accounts (without careful restrictions) means both spies everywhere, as well as trying to stuff the opponents servers with dead weight accounts to limit the number of actual players that can get into WvW maps.
Some people will do anything to get an edge.

There’s already no enforcement on trolls in WvW. With free accounts that have access to WvW, it’s going to be even more of a disaster.

Ranael.6423:

Uriel.6310:

Im not sure how to feel about this F2P business… the first thing that comes to mind is League of Legends.

Dont get me wrong, its a great game.. but their community of players has to be the worst I have ever seen in online gaming.. Its straight toxic and they have not figured out a way to fix it.

Now Arenanet would like to go the same route? Lol.. man SPVP will be the new grounds for trolls especially with the introduction of leagues. If this goes through we can kiss our good little community goodbye.

I’m sure that this is not what you mean but I don’t see why there should be a correlation between how nice is a community and the amount of money people spent. Such thought could then be derived to say that CE buyers are nicer within the community while the 10 € players are some toxic newbies…. again not saying you said that but just that this would be an easy way to take.

More specifically for League, my experience was the higher rank you were the less toxic people were, even if all players were still F2P. On the other hand I played some PvP game on GW2 were some players were at least as toxic… so no correlation again.
I think the comunity is what the players and the game make it to be. This game and the previous one always had nice people playing for the fun, taking time to dress their barbie, exploring landscape, organising crazy events… there is no reason why more players arriving would end that.

It’s not a statement of “more money spent means they’re better people”
or “more people is bad”

The problem a lot of us have with opening the floodgates that is f2p is that there’s zero barrier to entry. Any troll can pick up an account to troll people, and when he gets banned he can create another free account, and then another, and then another.
Having a small fee to entry means the players are much more likely to honestly be interested in playing the game than just here to troll.

I’ve played a lot of games, many f2p, and there are a lot of people who get their kicks from ruining other peoples experiences.
Met one guy (or girl, who knows) who had decided his goal in the game was to troll people until he got 100 accounts banned. iirc he was on his 14th account when I ran into him.
He (or she) played the game, invested many hours, solely into ruining it for everyone he (or she) could. And while that individual’s goal of 100 banned accounts was an anomaly that mindset is anything but. Trolls abound.
And from the trolls perspective, given the choice between trolling in a free game that costs him nothing if he gets banned, and a game where he has to spend $10-$20 each time, even $10 can be enough to either convince the troll to go elsewhere or to reconsider behavior that might cost him that money.
People tend not to respect what they haven’t paid for in some way, I’ve seen it in nearly every aspect of life. Company laptop? It’s not mine why should I take care of it? Same thing with company cars, rentals, friends stuff, the game is free who cares if I get banned?

That’s why we don’t want F2P, B2P is a small but reasonably effective barrier that keeps a great deal of grief at bay. No it’s not perfect there are still people who would go for getting 100 accounts banned even at $20 bucks each. But there are a lot less of those.
When they get in for free there’s no monetary loss to give a ban teeth.

To exacerbate the problem, the company is hoping these people spend money in the cash shop. Which sometimes leads to GMs being more and more likely to ignore behavior.

More players is a good thing, especially if those players spend money on the gem store and that money goes to fund more content.
But more players isn’t so good when many of them are as I described above, only here to mess around because the game is free.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Ranael.6423:

Uriel.6310:

Im not sure how to feel about this F2P business… the first thing that comes to mind is League of Legends.

Dont get me wrong, its a great game.. but their community of players has to be the worst I have ever seen in online gaming.. Its straight toxic and they have not figured out a way to fix it.

Now Arenanet would like to go the same route? Lol.. man SPVP will be the new grounds for trolls especially with the introduction of leagues. If this goes through we can kiss our good little community goodbye.

I’m sure that this is not what you mean but I don’t see why there should be a correlation between how nice is a community and the amount of money people spent. Such thought could then be derived to say that CE buyers are nicer within the community while the 10 € players are some toxic newbies…. again not saying you said that but just that this would be an easy way to take.

More specifically for League, my experience was the higher rank you were the less toxic people were, even if all players were still F2P. On the other hand I played some PvP game on GW2 were some players were at least as toxic… so no correlation again.
I think the comunity is what the players and the game make it to be. This game and the previous one always had nice people playing for the fun, taking time to dress their barbie, exploring landscape, organising crazy events… there is no reason why more players arriving would end that.

It’s not a statement of “more money spent means they’re better people”
or “more people is bad”

The problem a lot of us have with opening the floodgates that is f2p is that there’s zero barrier to entry. Any troll can pick up an account to troll people, and when he gets banned he can create another free account, and then another, and then another.
Having a small fee to entry means the players are much more likely to honestly be interested in playing the game than just here to troll.

I’ve played a lot of games, many f2p, and there are a lot of people who get their kicks from ruining other peoples experiences.
Met one guy (or girl, who knows) who had decided his goal in the game was to troll people until he got 100 accounts banned. iirc he was on his 14th account when I ran into him.
He (or she) played the game, invested many hours, solely into ruining it for everyone he (or she) could. And while that individual’s goal of 100 banned accounts was an anomaly that mindset is anything but. Trolls abound.
And from the trolls perspective, given the choice between trolling in a free game that costs him nothing if he gets banned, and a game where he has to spend $10-$20 each time, even $10 can be enough to either convince the troll to go elsewhere or to reconsider behavior that might cost him that money.
People tend not to respect what they haven’t paid for in some way, I’ve seen it in nearly every aspect of life. Company laptop? It’s not mine why should I take care of it? Same thing with company cars, rentals, friends stuff, the game is free who cares if I get banned?

That’s why we don’t want F2P, B2P is a small but reasonably effective barrier that keeps a great deal of grief at bay. No it’s not perfect there are still people who would go for getting 100 accounts banned even at $20 bucks each. But there are a lot less of those.
When they get in for free there’s no monetary loss to give a ban teeth.

To exacerbate the problem, the company is hoping these people spend money in the cash shop. Which sometimes leads to GMs being more and more likely to ignore behavior.

More players is a good thing, especially if those players spend money on the gem store and that money goes to fund more content.
But more players isn’t so good when many of them are as I described above, only here to mess around because the game is free.

finaly someone gets it!

Ranael.6423:

Uriel.6310:

Im not sure how to feel about this F2P business… the first thing that comes to mind is League of Legends.

Dont get me wrong, its a great game.. but their community of players has to be the worst I have ever seen in online gaming.. Its straight toxic and they have not figured out a way to fix it.

Now Arenanet would like to go the same route? Lol.. man SPVP will be the new grounds for trolls especially with the introduction of leagues. If this goes through we can kiss our good little community goodbye.

I’m sure that this is not what you mean but I don’t see why there should be a correlation between how nice is a community and the amount of money people spent. Such thought could then be derived to say that CE buyers are nicer within the community while the 10 € players are some toxic newbies…. again not saying you said that but just that this would be an easy way to take.

More specifically for League, my experience was the higher rank you were the less toxic people were, even if all players were still F2P. On the other hand I played some PvP game on GW2 were some players were at least as toxic… so no correlation again.
I think the comunity is what the players and the game make it to be. This game and the previous one always had nice people playing for the fun, taking time to dress their barbie, exploring landscape, organising crazy events… there is no reason why more players arriving would end that.

It’s not how much money they spend.. it’s that they’re willing to pay money for the game in the first place meaning they’re actually interested in playing the game and are motivated to be a part of the game and its community rather than just being obnoxious because who cares if you get banned on a F2P account with no money spent on it.

Even a $10 barrier deters the lion’s share of trolls and internet hobos.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Ranael.6423:

Uriel.6310:

Im not sure how to feel about this F2P business… the first thing that comes to mind is League of Legends.

Dont get me wrong, its a great game.. but their community of players has to be the worst I have ever seen in online gaming.. Its straight toxic and they have not figured out a way to fix it.

Now Arenanet would like to go the same route? Lol.. man SPVP will be the new grounds for trolls especially with the introduction of leagues. If this goes through we can kiss our good little community goodbye.

I’m sure that this is not what you mean but I don’t see why there should be a correlation between how nice is a community and the amount of money people spent. Such thought could then be derived to say that CE buyers are nicer within the community while the 10 € players are some toxic newbies…. again not saying you said that but just that this would be an easy way to take.

More specifically for League, my experience was the higher rank you were the less toxic people were, even if all players were still F2P. On the other hand I played some PvP game on GW2 were some players were at least as toxic… so no correlation again.
I think the comunity is what the players and the game make it to be. This game and the previous one always had nice people playing for the fun, taking time to dress their barbie, exploring landscape, organising crazy events… there is no reason why more players arriving would end that.

It’s not a statement of “more money spent means they’re better people”
or “more people is bad”

The problem a lot of us have with opening the floodgates that is f2p is that there’s zero barrier to entry. Any troll can pick up an account to troll people, and when he gets banned he can create another free account, and then another, and then another.
Having a small fee to entry means the players are much more likely to honestly be interested in playing the game than just here to troll.

I’ve played a lot of games, many f2p, and there are a lot of people who get their kicks from ruining other peoples experiences.
Met one guy (or girl, who knows) who had decided his goal in the game was to troll people until he got 100 accounts banned. iirc he was on his 14th account when I ran into him.
He (or she) played the game, invested many hours, solely into ruining it for everyone he (or she) could. And while that individual’s goal of 100 banned accounts was an anomaly that mindset is anything but. Trolls abound.
And from the trolls perspective, given the choice between trolling in a free game that costs him nothing if he gets banned, and a game where he has to spend $10-$20 each time, even $10 can be enough to either convince the troll to go elsewhere or to reconsider behavior that might cost him that money.
People tend not to respect what they haven’t paid for in some way, I’ve seen it in nearly every aspect of life. Company laptop? It’s not mine why should I take care of it? Same thing with company cars, rentals, friends stuff, the game is free who cares if I get banned?

That’s why we don’t want F2P, B2P is a small but reasonably effective barrier that keeps a great deal of grief at bay. No it’s not perfect there are still people who would go for getting 100 accounts banned even at $20 bucks each. But there are a lot less of those.
When they get in for free there’s no monetary loss to give a ban teeth.

To exacerbate the problem, the company is hoping these people spend money in the cash shop. Which sometimes leads to GMs being more and more likely to ignore behavior.

More players is a good thing, especially if those players spend money on the gem store and that money goes to fund more content.
But more players isn’t so good when many of them are as I described above, only here to mess around because the game is free.

Behellagh.1468:

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Free accounts (without careful restrictions) means both spies everywhere, as well as trying to stuff the opponents servers with dead weight accounts to limit the number of actual players that can get into WvW maps.
Some people will do anything to get an edge.

Somebody is taking WvW WAY to seriously.

Yes they do and that is why it will happen.

Tag watching and Teamspeak spies are a real thing.
Stuffing maps full of dummy accounts is harder to do but I wouldn’t put it past some individuals to make a dummy account for the soul purpose of burning supply ect.

I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this already, but I seem to recall either a red post or a mention of this during one of the P.O.I. that it might be an idea to make PvP F2P to increase the Esports scene. I could be completely wrong ofc, but if it turns out GW2 won’t have a full free core game then this might be what they are going to do. Whatever the case, we will find out tomorrow.

Devildoc.6721:

It was really bad when TERA first went F2P. I picked up the game for $10 the week before it went F2P just to check it out, that first week, it wasn’t all that bad. But THE DAY it went F2P it became flooded with BR’s, flooding chat, harassing anyone speaking in a language other than Portuguese, sending you whispers about how this was “their server now” and you’d find gangs of people with brazilian flags as their guild logo running around kill stealing from anyone NOT using a Brazilian flag guild or with .Br in their name, or all flagging and gang pk’ing people (until level capped non BR’s came by and slaughtered them all (and then they got harassed in tells)). It was a terrible community and made me uninstall. I recently reinstalled and am playing again on a different server and it’s not quite as bad so you might be right about it not being a lasting deterioration of community.

But I for one dread that first month or so of F2P players.

Yeah, it makes me ashamed to see how a few groups of stupid ppl can cause shaming to a whole country :S kitten Counter-Strike (long story…). Ok, let’s not derail the subject…

Behellagh.1468:

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Free accounts (without careful restrictions) means both spies everywhere, as well as trying to stuff the opponents servers with dead weight accounts to limit the number of actual players that can get into WvW maps.
Some people will do anything to get an edge.

Somebody is taking WvW WAY to seriously.

You must not play WvW or you would know that these are valid concerns. Just because it isn’t the main mode that you play doesn’t mean it would not be a problem.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

Ranael.6423:

Uriel.6310:

Im not sure how to feel about this F2P business… the first thing that comes to mind is League of Legends.

Dont get me wrong, its a great game.. but their community of players has to be the worst I have ever seen in online gaming.. Its straight toxic and they have not figured out a way to fix it.

Now Arenanet would like to go the same route? Lol.. man SPVP will be the new grounds for trolls especially with the introduction of leagues. If this goes through we can kiss our good little community goodbye.

I’m sure that this is not what you mean but I don’t see why there should be a correlation between how nice is a community and the amount of money people spent. Such thought could then be derived to say that CE buyers are nicer within the community while the 10 € players are some toxic newbies…. again not saying you said that but just that this would be an easy way to take.

More specifically for League, my experience was the higher rank you were the less toxic people were, even if all players were still F2P. On the other hand I played some PvP game on GW2 were some players were at least as toxic… so no correlation again.
I think the comunity is what the players and the game make it to be. This game and the previous one always had nice people playing for the fun, taking time to dress their barbie, exploring landscape, organising crazy events… there is no reason why more players arriving would end that.

It’s not a statement of “more money spent means they’re better people”
or “more people is bad”

The problem a lot of us have with opening the floodgates that is f2p is that there’s zero barrier to entry. Any troll can pick up an account to troll people, and when he gets banned he can create another free account, and then another, and then another.
Having a small fee to entry means the players are much more likely to honestly be interested in playing the game than just here to troll.

I’ve played a lot of games, many f2p, and there are a lot of people who get their kicks from ruining other peoples experiences.
Met one guy (or girl, who knows) who had decided his goal in the game was to troll people until he got 100 accounts banned. iirc he was on his 14th account when I ran into him.
He (or she) played the game, invested many hours, solely into ruining it for everyone he (or she) could. And while that individual’s goal of 100 banned accounts was an anomaly that mindset is anything but. Trolls abound.
And from the trolls perspective, given the choice between trolling in a free game that costs him nothing if he gets banned, and a game where he has to spend $10-$20 each time, even $10 can be enough to either convince the troll to go elsewhere or to reconsider behavior that might cost him that money.
People tend not to respect what they haven’t paid for in some way, I’ve seen it in nearly every aspect of life. Company laptop? It’s not mine why should I take care of it? Same thing with company cars, rentals, friends stuff, the game is free who cares if I get banned?

That’s why we don’t want F2P, B2P is a small but reasonably effective barrier that keeps a great deal of grief at bay. No it’s not perfect there are still people who would go for getting 100 accounts banned even at $20 bucks each. But there are a lot less of those.
When they get in for free there’s no monetary loss to give a ban teeth.

To exacerbate the problem, the company is hoping these people spend money in the cash shop. Which sometimes leads to GMs being more and more likely to ignore behavior.

More players is a good thing, especially if those players spend money on the gem store and that money goes to fund more content.
But more players isn’t so good when many of them are as I described above, only here to mess around because the game is free.

Exactly this. This is what I mean and which is heavily seen in league. You got banned? Thats fine, make a new account. Feel like trolling today? Ok.. make a smurf account and let the games begin.

F2P has its advantages but besides income for GW2.. it also has some ugly disadvantages that can and will ruin the community in some way which is what I meant. GW2 community as we know it already include nice people over all, and dont get me wrong, there are still those kitten in game that you run into every now and then but no where at the same influx in League where every match depends on if your teammate feels like playing seriously or not.

If you think rage post are bad now, let F2P players come in. You will have threads of player’s opinions who may take this game seriously, and others who casually come by to do their daily trolling and so on.

All of this is likely why they’re requiring SMS or other authentication for accounts from now on. The average troll is probably going to get tired of finding new ways to authenticate an account every time they get banned.

Agent Noun.7350:

All of this is likely why they’re requiring SMS or other authentication for accounts from now on. The average troll is probably going to get tired of finding new ways to authenticate an account every time they get banned.

Yeah I feel Anet is going a step above other standard F2P games. They are putting good amount of restrictions to at least discourage what you normally see in other F2P games. Give it a chance folks. It’s either they go F2P or they continue slow downward spiral with player population. There’s no better way to gain a large new player population for a 3 year old game.