Guild Wars 2

This again jeez

this thread needs more beating a dead horse pictures

Day Trooper.3605:

Risingashes.8694:

The issue is points which are impossible to get. HOM points can be gotten. Holiday points can be gotten. Those points are achievable. Daily points simply are not.

I’m not sure the past holiday achievement points can still be gotten. Like it wouldn’t surprise me next year if they offered a different set?

Would be nice to get an ANet confirmation on this.

They’ve already confirmed this. Events will rerun but new content will be added aswell and achievements will be available (likely with additional achievements for the new content).

Morbious.5832:

This again jeez

this thread needs more beating a dead horse pictures

Ill beat the horse until it turns to dust and then take a tray and beat the dust. This subject needs to be addressed by anet. Achievement leaderboards are absolutely meaningless otherwise.

The enitre leader bla bla kitten its crap , whyy so what if u are first u geting something special ? do people will blow u xD nooo its just there for no lifers to feel beter deal whit it xD

Gele.2048:

The enitre leader bla bla kitten its crap , whyy so what if u are first u geting something special ? do people will blow u xD nooo its just there for no lifers to feel beter deal whit it xD

Wow.

I really don’t get what people see in a leader board? and i’m completely boggled at a PvE leader board O.o

Seriously are people so competitive that they care where they rank on some virtual game leader board.. wow ok..

Gele.2048:

The enitre leader bla bla kitten its crap , whyy so what if u are first u geting something special ? do people will blow u xD nooo its just there for no lifers to feel beter deal whit it xD

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Dante.1508:

I really don’t get what people see in a leader board? and i’m completely boggled at a PvE leader board O.o

Seriously are people so competitive that they care where they rank on some virtual game leader board.. wow ok..

Fun. We play the game for fun.

No one is saving starving orphans here, never claimed to be.

But just because we aren’t saving the planet doesn’t make us weird for enjoying our hobbies. Just because it isn’t life-or-death doesn’t mean our critisisms are insane or petty.

If the choice was between this, and an ANet employee flying to Africa and saving war orphans then great- we’re being thoughtlessly cruel- screw achievement leaderboards the child comes first.

But those aren’t the choices, that isn’t the world we live in. No one ever claimed that this was ‘important’ in the grand scheme of things. But it’s important to me, not the most important thing in my life, not the most important thing in my day (that’d be breakfast), but important none-the-less.

You don’t hold the same opinion, but it seems that you want to paint me (and others that agree) as some kind of strange creed of insane-person. Irrational and incorrect. People with preferences that are ‘wrong’. Is this a polite thing to imply to you? Would you like someone stating the same thing about the things you care about?

Hypothetical Example

“You actually like pizza? Wow. I mean I always thought that people just ate pizza because they had no other food available- but okay. I guess that’s fine.

Heh, learn something new every day."

Sounds like a bit of a tool, no?

Let’s try a different analogy.

I am a trainer at my company, teaching about 10 different topics. I am one of the “older” trainers, having been at my company 8 years. There are other trainers; some of the newest ones with only 1 – 2 years.

I would strive to be called an “expert” or “leader” on my topics. So would the new trainers. It is an achievement to them to work on expertise on their subject, some of which would be the same as my subjects. This doesn’t have as much to do with how long they have been teaching it, as it does with mastery. Like killing 500 centaurs gives you an achievement for slaying centaurs, regardless of whether you did that in 2 weeks or 2 months or 8 months.

Should this take away from my longevity? No. My company gives out rewards for years worked at certain milestones. They also give more vacation at certain milestones. I would not expect that someone who has only been there 2 years would have the same rewards or vacation time given that I have. However, the newer persons can aslo reach those milestones if they choose to stay.

To me, mixing mastery and longevity is like comparing apples to oranges. The achievement (mastery) points should be capped for mastery type achievements, imo. However, there could be rewards for time played too, whether or not it is tied to the leaderboard. Even if it is tied, it is something that could be accomplished by others if they played long enough, but would not interfere with reaching the cap on daily/monthy.

Personally, I don’t care all that much about PvE leaderboards. It’s too much like, “who’s got the best gear score.” Don’t know; don’t care. But I do think it’s unfair for persons who do care that new persons would be handicapped trying to get higher.

Risingashes.8694:

Hypothetical Example

“You actually like pizza? Wow. I mean I always thought that people just ate pizza because they had no other food available- but okay. I guess that’s fine.

Heh, learn something new every day."

Sounds like a bit of a tool, no?

I get that daily when I let people in on what I put on my sandwiches. It no longer bothers me as much. (“You actually fry your bologna?”)

I get that when I tell people what shows I watch (“Doctor Who? Isn’t that a British show? Why do you watch that, British TV sucks.”)

I don’t feel the least bit ashamed saying something akin to that, though more “well, whatever you like as your fun”. So long as people don’t mind me saying “you know you’re getting all worked up over something which doesn’t have any point right? Just chestbeating and bragging rights”.

I’m out of the topic though, but really . . . if this is the most dire thing that Guild Wars 2 has to face this month I will be freaking awesomely pleased.

I don’t usually post in general discussion anymore, but this thread reeks so badly of overwhelming entitlement that I have to put a word in.

Now, since you seems to have argued against someone who used an improper analogy and thought that makes your point more valid, I’ll bring in my own:

Many high schools keep track of student attendance and record the final number at the end of a school year.
James has been going to such a highschool since the beginning of a school year, and in the end he has 150 days recorded for his attendance.
Daryl on the other hand, transferred to the school 3 months after the school year has started, and has 80 days recorded for his attendance.
At the end of the year, they compare their attendance numbers, and Daryl complains that James has a higher number.

No matter how I look at it, I can’t see any logic in this example. And it’s what you are doing. What you don’t seem to understand, or want to understand, is that dailies are not there to show your mastery of the game. They’re just there to show that you, had you done them, were there on the day of a specific daily and had time to do them. Those people who have gotten the daily achievement points earned it by being there to play.

If they have higher achievement points than you because of the dailies, they earned it. You were not playing while they were. You do not deserve to have the achievement points that they got from dailies, because you didn’t do what was required: by being there on those days. The tasks for dailies are generally very easy, what a daily achievement shows is that you were there on that day, to put time in to earn the daily achievement. If you cannot put the time in for whatever reason, then you did not earn it, and do not deserve it.

But me putting it so clearly probably isn’t a satisfactory answer for you, judging from how you’ve received other opinions that opposes your own. So here’s a tip. You’re not looking for a discussion, because you’re not listening to other people. It seems you just want Anet to make changes to the system so it is more to your liking. Guess what? There’s a suggestions forum here. So post your suggestion there.

In my honest opinion though, Anet is very unlikely going to do what you’re asking because the problem you stated is such a trivial one. I can think of a dozen things off the top of my head that are more important to the development of the game that have been stated by the devs themselves, and I’m sure Anet devs can list 10 times that. This “unfairness” problem isn’t even looking to improve the leaderboards system like your other post was. This is just a request for Anet to allow you to boost your own pride

I think it would be better to running these leaderboards over 6 month periods with various criteria for achievements.

Though honestly a PvE leaderboard is just so trivial…

I have a different suggestion to “solve” the issue of dailies/monthlies without making any alterations to the current achievement system, only adding something.

Dailies/Monthlies should award points, they are a way to differentiate people and have more variable scores, also they show who is more “dedicated” (in a way) to the game. However, someone with lots of points might not even be an active player anymore.

What I would want to see is point decay. In competitive pvp games it works well to determine someone’s rating, it also works (I think) in Guild Wars 2, meaning if you stop playing for a while, your rating is steadily decreasing. A similar feature could be implemented for Achievement points, if you stop playing for a while, stop doing dailies/monthlies for a period of time, your points will start to decrease.

The limit for the decay is your “non-repeatable” points, so only points from dailies/monthlies should decay. That way, a new player will be able to catch up to those who stopped playing/caring, but an old player that continues to play non-stop won’t ever be reached, and why should he? Why should a new player be allowed to surpass a player who has been there since release, and is STILL very active?

If it works for competitive pvp, it should work for something like achievement points.

I’m sure you’ll be able to get the holiday achievements. It’s not worth the time to program new stuff for every single holiday. They may well add to it, but something really popular like the Mad King dungeon they’d be crazy not to bring back. Then again, this is Anet. lol

IMHO, leadership boards make new players just want to walk away from the game, why play at all if they have no chance at ever being able to get near the top? And people who join in a year or 2, forget it, this game is destined for failure, think before you add this stupid crap.

Risingashes.8694:

You might need a bit of reading comprehension then because it seems you’ve totally missed the point.

….

Reward completion, not attendance.

First of all, if we’re going to be rude…

You likely are a pre-teen as it seems you haven’t learned to show your work when doing math. The statements that you’re making are made up.

Attendance? Attendance? Excuse me? I don’t log in every day, put a check in a box, and log back out. I log in and complete EVERY daily option. Every one. Both in PvP and PvE. I complete all monthly options now too. Those are achievements. Sometimes I run fractals when I have almost no time in the day in order to get 1 (one(uno)) point. One.

I’m almost more annoyed at the people who have tons of achievements point that they earned by just playing the game, killing 1000 centaurs, getting so many kills with each weapon.

I’m trying, and I’m only in the top 1000. And I’ve been playing since day -3.

Risingashes.8694:

Dante.1508:

I really don’t get what people see in a leader board? and i’m completely boggled at a PvE leader board O.o

Seriously are people so competitive that they care where they rank on some virtual game leader board.. wow ok..

Fun. We play the game for fun.

No one is saving starving orphans here, never claimed to be.

But just because we aren’t saving the planet doesn’t make us weird for enjoying our hobbies. Just because it isn’t life-or-death doesn’t mean our critisisms are insane or petty.

If the choice was between this, and an ANet employee flying to Africa and saving war orphans then great- we’re being thoughtlessly cruel- screw achievement leaderboards the child comes first.

But those aren’t the choices, that isn’t the world we live in. No one ever claimed that this was ‘important’ in the grand scheme of things. But it’s important to me, not the most important thing in my life, not the most important thing in my day (that’d be breakfast), but important none-the-less.

You don’t hold the same opinion, but it seems that you want to paint me (and others that agree) as some kind of strange creed of insane-person. Irrational and incorrect. People with preferences that are ‘wrong’. Is this a polite thing to imply to you? Would you like someone stating the same thing about the things you care about?

Hypothetical Example

“You actually like pizza? Wow. I mean I always thought that people just ate pizza because they had no other food available- but okay. I guess that’s fine.

Heh, learn something new every day."

Sounds like a bit of a tool, no?

I see i struck a cord, sorry about that.

I’m just a bit confused on the grand scheme of things and fixes to GW2 i’d have thought leader boards to be low, guess i’m wrong, i’m glad you like them and others i’m just a bit confused having them (especially PvE) when servers are so unbalanced, classes unbalanced and the PvE going by how long we’ve played seems a bit bias..

Yet people still think these are needed so soon..

I’ve already stated my opinion on this multiple times.
A short summary is “Daily/Monthly reform is OK (reduce Ach. Points/day, etc.), elimination is not”

What I just wanted to say is specific to the OP. These are the names of the threads you’ve started in the last few weeks:

Risingashes.8694
“A few issues with Achievement Leaderboards IMO”
“Achievement Leaderboards: Truth behind them”
“Why do EU players have more achievements?”
“Expand Achievements to make them more broad”
“IMO, Achievement Leaderboards unfair due to dailies”

In these threads, you talk about how dailies are unfair to newer players. Could you not have condensed your ideas into another one of your threads instead of making five of them about essentially the same thing?

oh wow, he made another thread about achievement points and leaderboards haha!
he is just bitter that all his useless effort spent on salvaging millions of stuffs is wasted coz his 25k achievement points got reduced to around 6k+ when they cap the agent of entropy. Should have played the game rather than spend hours salvaging.

I feel that OP is obviously right, and that the idea of being able to do old dailies but for no reward other than the achievement point is the best solution.
Alot of people are saying to that it doesn’t matter, but clearly it matters to some people. It is a game, if you want to compete in leaderboards or achievements that’s fine, you should be able to. If you’re willing to put in tons of time and effort to catch up you should be able to.

Honestly I feel like there is no good reason to disagree with OP. What he is saying seems self-evident to me.

The one part that might make sense is that the leaderboards would become ‘tied up’ at max points. But you have to consider the magnitude of some achievements. Yakslapper is gunna take awhile to max. There are many massive achievements that would foster ongoing competition for the forseeable future, and obviously more will be added.

Alot of the people on this thread seem to be missing the point and making analogies that are moronic in my opinion (the rank 40 spvp or whatever it was), as if some people think O kitten uggesting the achievements just be given out.

Dailies/Monthlies shouldn’t have been worth points to begin with.

Edit: To be clear, it’s kind of a non-issue to me. I don’t care about the leaderboards and I don’t have the time or desire to compete, but some people seemed to be so kitten unclear on what was actually being said.

Mushrooms.6158:

Honestly I feel like there is no good reason to disagree with OP. What he is saying seems self-evident to me.

Except there is a good reason. There may even be a few. The OP is complaining about an user-created issue by misinterpreting a system implemented by Anet, a system that is working completely as intended. This is a complaint born out of entitlement, not logic. Daily achievements are DAILY. They’re meant to be like an attendance check. Being able to do the dailies on another day other than the day it was originally for, defeats the entire purpose of a daily achievement. If you weren’t there to do it, then you did not fulfill the requirement of the achievement and therefore you have no right to claim the achievement point associated with it.

The OP was also not looking for a discussion as it is clear he just wants the system to be changed to one he likes better, and there’s something called the suggestion forums for that.

The redo system proposed by the OP sounds simple on paper but isn’t simple to implement, and every minute that Anet spends on this would be a minute taken away from something more important, things that they themselves have stated that they need to work on. For a “problem” as subjective and trivial as this, I doubt that any time should be given to it until most if not all of the things that Anet has on their agenda is complete.

So yes. There is reason to disagree with the OP. He needs to learn that just because he doesn’t like something, doesn’t mean it should be changed.

Or you could just have a toggle that includes daily/monthly achievement points and one that excludes them from total. That would make you feel better about yourself as well.

unfair cuz of dailies?look the only unfair dailies is when we got dailies pve and pvp scored 25 AP each for weeks several months ago, naw tell me how to get 50 AP per day in under an hour atm if tats not unfair?

I kinda agree. It would be nice if achievement points had a cap. Now people who did daily every day got a huge advantage.

Shadowflare.2759:

This is a complaint born out of entitlement, not logic. Daily achievements are DAILY. They’re meant to be like an attendance check.

Let’s talk about ‘entitlement’.

Since you never define your terms (something common throughout all your posts while accusing me of the same), we’ll have to stick with a general impression.

I feel entitled to compete in a fair system.

I feel entitled to nothing but the rewards from my own effort and attainment.

I feel entitled to a system where all players can participate, and feel that they are able to compete based upon their efforts.

I feel entitled to a system where I am provided with a real challenge, as the metrics I am assessed upon are attainable by all players and not by an elite few who got there by luck and circumstance.

That’s my ‘entitlement’.

But let’s talk about your entitlement. Your attitude. Because that seems far more relevant.

You feel entitled to special privileges based on how long you’ve played.

You want bragging rights based on how long you’ve played and don’t want to have to compete with newer players. You think you deserve this based upon your ‘support’ of the company.

That is your entitlement.

So comparing entitlement vs entitlement I think we have a clear picture as to whose entitlement is right and whose is wrong. From a common decency standpoint.

Achievement points shouldn’t be an attendance check. Attendance is not an achievement.

Who cares, you don’t get a special title, of reward for being in the top 1000, or top 10 or even rank 1, yet some are really crying hard about it, I seen this in another game where people cried to the admin non stop about how new players couldn’t catch up yadda yadda, and they caved in and made it easier for newer players, BOOM the game is dead now, its the nature of MMO’s there all the same, those who have been there longer will have more,

So if they made it that newer players could go back and get the rewards for previous months that where handed out ( BEFORE THEY BOUGHT THE GAME ) how does that make it fair to say someone who has played from day one, but maybe had there comp crash and couldn’t complete a few dailies or a monthly, hell why not just let new players go roll that Karka event and get a precursor drop from that end chest too, after all they missed that too right… get real.

Trying to change this now does not help the game in any way, don’t try to fix what is not broken.

Well, this is problematic and it’s not. It’s really only a problem for Anet, not us. I’ll explain:
yes, achievement points from dailies/monthlies/previous events make new players ever catching up impossible
but what is the result of that? it makes the leaderboard an indicator of how much time you’ve spent playing. Nothing else.
Now that we know this, it makes the leaderboards quite useless, uninteresting, and unimportant, wouldn’t you say? Hence why it’s Anet’s problem. The way they made the leaderboard made it worthless. Effort poorly spent.
Kinda like farming/grinding. People are only interested in what benefits them the most. This leaderboard does nothing, so everyone will ignore it.

Mystic.5934:

Well, this is problematic and it’s not. It’s really only a problem for Anet, not us. I’ll explain:

Sure, that would be true if players had no interest in making use of the system.

I personally do, so it becomes my problem.

It’s the same way as if they started giving people 20 gold each time they logged in daily.

It’d really only be ANets problem, because then gold would become useless. No one would be able to buy anything, the TP would become useless and people would just find something else to trade with.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Who cares,

I care, a lot of other people also care.

Ok I Did It.2854:

you don’t get a special title,

Not everyone needs a new minipet to motivate their every action. You do, so go participate in farming, or laurels, or dungeon tokens, or karma. Achievement points are the one system that doesn’t lead people along with a carrot, that doesn’t make the system broken it just means that those interested in it don’t need shinies.

Ok I Did It.2854:

they caved in and made it easier for newer players, BOOM the game is dead now,

If they fix this the game will die? Wow, what I wonderful prediction. Pray tell how making the leaderboards based on achievement instead of leaving it as a veterans only club would kill the game.

Want to know what is more likely? The game caters to vets, they get no challenge out of the game, they quit the game. Vets don’t want to be handfed, they want challenge, adventure, engagement. They burn through the game and then find a new one, but with systems such as achievement points- where the endgoal is constantly moving- this burnout is slowed.

A new dungeon takes time, a new minipet takes time, and developers will never be able to keep up with 24/7 players. But there is a group that can keep up with such people and that is other 24/7 players. Pit those guys off against each other and you have an actual ballgame.

That’s what the leaderboards do, pit hardcore vs hardcore. But for this you need a system that people who want this kind of competition can look at and see is fair. Because if it’s based on luck, or join date, or any other uncontrollable factor, they’ll not bother participating. As getting on top will be meaningless.

Risingashes.8694:

Shadowflare.2759:

This is a complaint born out of entitlement, not logic. Daily achievements are DAILY. They’re meant to be like an attendance check.

Let’s talk about ‘entitlement’.

Since you never define your terms (something common throughout all your posts while accusing me of the same), we’ll have to stick with a general impression

That’s my ‘entitlement’.

But let’s talk about your entitlement. Your attitude. Because that seems far more relevant.

This is probably one of the more amusing results of assumptions that I’ve read on a forum in a long while.

Let me paint this out clearly for you since it seems you can’t extract my definition of “your entitlement” from what I wrote, despite it being pretty clear.

I have trouble with your post because you have misinterpreted 2 major things:
1) The existence of the achievement points
2) The requirements of a daily achievement

Let’s address the first point. Right now you’re going left and right screaming that there’s a supposed “unfairness” to the way that the leaderboards are being represented right now. But have you even thought about the purpose of the achievement points?

ArenaNet implemented them as a personal tracker for your own deeds in the game. No where did they ever say that it was meant to be competitive, and with the implementation of the leaderboards, all they’ve done is to provide you information that could be interesting to people who care about their achievement points. They didn’t say anywhere that they would support a competition with regards to the AP. What you’ve done, is created an artificial competition based on the achievement points, and now found out that you’re not winning in your own artificial contest, and decide that Anet should change their system just because you don’t like it. There was no competition. You made your own. So why should they change it, if it is working completely as intended? This is the first example of your entitlement.

Now the second point. Every achievement in game has a requirement. For the dailies, it is far more about being able to log on and play on the specific day that they were meant for, rather than being able to complete the tasks, because the tasks themselves have pretty much no challenge and just requires a small amount of playtime. You’re asking to replay these dailies and completely disregarding the fact that they’re meant for one day and one day only, and that is the day they were meant for. If you weren’t there, then you didn’t fulfil the requirements. You are essentially asking for the system to give you the achievement point WITHOUT having fulfilled the requirement. That’s your second example of entitlement.

Now onto the amusing part where you made assumptions about my attitude and “entitlement”.

Let’s start by saying that I couldn’t care less about achievement points. I have never gone out of my way to do an achievement just so I can get achievement points. In fact, for the first 2 months of the game I wasn’t even aware that there were dailies and monthlies, I was too busy playing the game to care. The only reason I do dailies and monthlies now is for the mystic coins/laurels, which are useful in game.

And bragging about achievement points? I would be ashamed if I brag about how many achievement points I have, because APs serve pretty much no purpose in game other than letting people have a general idea of how much you’ve been playing. It’s like the prestige titles in Call of Duty, and games played in League of Legends. Guess what, it only makes it funnier when I wipe the floor with these supposed “masters of the games” with their huge numbers of time spent in the games.

I am of the belief that only skill in the game should give anyone a bragging right. Being able to do more than others when given the same tools, isn’t something that you can get just by playing longer. Being a better player isn’t something that everyone can be, and that naturally gives much more prestige than “omg 10000 Achievement points”.

The reason that I posted here is because I recognize that ArenaNet has a lot on their plate. There are many things that they have to be working on, things that are important and have been stated by the devs themselves. To name a few: Pv kitten till waiting for the custom arenas and spectator mode. WvW is waiting for fixes to skill lag and more incentives for playing. PvE is facing major issues that have persisted since launch on the self-sustaining endgame and a majority of the players are squeezed into small parts of the world, leaving much of Tyria deserted.

All of these things are huge and time consuming tasks that Anet need all their resources for, and all YOU can do is complain about a properly working system, and demand that because you have a self-created problem they should spend their precious resources to fix it for you. I on the other hand just want the devs to keep their efforts on finishing what they’ve said they would do. Who’s entitled here?

As I’ve said. Take your “suggestion” to the suggestions forum. Maybe years down the line when they’re not nearly as busy, they can actually spare some time for you.

Quick Mouse.7635:

People who have been playing longer will have more achievements, and rightly so. Should someone who just started spvp have rank 40 just because people who have been playing longer have rank 40?
It was the same way in gw1. Those who had been playing longer had much higher titles.

The difference being.. you could actually catch up in GW1. In GW2 you can’t, way to miss the point completely.

Those dailies can’t be done anymore, meaning as long as those people on top the LB continue playing it will be impossible to catch up or surpass them. Totally unfair, but whatever things like this seem to be the norm here. Very disappointing, LB are meaningless because of dailies.

I could complete every achievement in-game right now and still not be on top thanks to a very silly and not so well thought out design. This… is… daily wars!