Guild Wars 2

If the Devs pulled a SWG and revamped the combat system completely to more accurately mirror GW1, would you support it or be very disgruntled??

Discuss

I do believe that doesn’t even qualify as a pipe dream. The fact we have a z axis to play with makes a change like that moot.

im talking not a complete mirrr, but a more up to date version of it with the same style.

I would stop playing. I didn’t like GW1’s combat, but i did like the trinity of other traditional mmos.

• New Game Enhancement is being introduced in Q1 2014.

“We wanted to make the game more Guild Wars-y.”

One thing I don’t miss from Guild Wars 1. The combat was utterly dull.

Azure Prower.8701:

One thing I don’t miss from Guild Wars 1. The combat was utterly dull.

I couldn’t disagree more. It seemed to require much more thought than what we have now. More teamwork as well.

Illusions.3108:

If the Devs pulled a SWG and revamped the combat system completely to more accurately mirror GW1, would you support it or be very disgruntled??

I’m sure it would be just as welcomed and have the same effect as it had in SWG.

Don’t hold your breath waiting for it to happen.

Heh you think they have the time to make that many changes? The fact that you couldn’t move while using skills makes a huge difference.

As for requiring more teamwork … considering most if not all of the game was doable with heroes I don’t think the requirement was all that high. If you had said something like ‘build synergy’ then I would agree. Things like not having too many people carrying corpse exploiting skills since depending on the mission you might not have enough corpses.

1000+ skills? Yes please.
Dual professions? Yes please.
Skills that worked well together, not just “Combo Fields”? Yes please.
First 5 skills whatever I like not tied to the weapon I wield? Yes please.
8 skills to choose whatever I want, not 1 designated heal? Yes please.
Traits that REALLY impact skills? Yes please..

Trade it all for jumping and dodging? In a heart beat.

juno.1840:

Azure Prower.8701:

One thing I don’t miss from Guild Wars 1. The combat was utterly dull.

I couldn’t disagree more. It seemed to require much more thought than what we have now. More teamwork as well.

Being rooted in place whilst using a skill. Chasing people around whilst doing nothing as melee. Clunky motions. Really bad rubber banding. No thank you.

Bagel.4598:

1000+ skills? Yes please.
Dual professions? Yes please.
Skills that worked well together, not just “Combo Fields”? Yes please.
First 5 skills whatever I like not tied to the weapon I wield? Yes please.
8 skills to choose whatever I want, not 1 designated heal? Yes please.
Traits that REALLY impact skills? Yes please..

Trade it all for jumping and dodging? In a heart beat.

Pretty much this.

If it meant bringing heroes back then I’d be all for it.

I would demand every penny I have spent returned back to me. And believe it or not, I had this discussion with support before and they would actually give it. But at the cost of locking me out of anymore NCSoft (and possibly Nexon) related purchases, not much of a loss though if they ever pulled crap like this.

I tried to get in to GW1 half a dozen times through it’s entire run because of the great story and art. But when it comes down to it, it’s a game, and gameplay should be the primary aesthetic concern, and GW1s gameplay sucked like no other game I have ever laid hands on.

I would quit. Guild Wars 1 combat was catastrophically bad.

Nostalgic much? Go play GW1 for 5 minutes and then rethink your statement.

Bagel.4598:

But you’re happy for them to go around banning people unjustly and promising content in their patch notes but not delivering.
Wouldn’t be much of a loss by the sounds.

This thread is about changing the combat system to be like GW1’s. From what I’ve seen, it looks horrible, and I would never use it.

Of course SWG had such great success.

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Bagel.4598:

But you’re happy for them to go around banning people unjustly and promising content in their patch notes but not delivering.
Wouldn’t be much of a loss by the sounds.

This thread is about changing the combat system to be like GW1’s. From what I’ve seen, it looks horrible, and I would never use it.

Of course SWG had such great success.

I’m out.

Bagel.4598:

I’m out.

Sorry, I was busy playing CoH. I’m not going to play a game that I can obviously see I don’t like a combat system too.

You can like GW1 as much as you like, but I don’t have to play a game to tell I’m not interested in it :P

Sube Dai.8496:

Nostalgic much? Go play GW1 for 5 minutes and then rethink your statement.

I played GW1 extensively in 2012 and on few occasions in 2013. This is not nostalgia. Game concepts do not age that bad as technical side (I agree that currently GW1, a game from 2004, is a bit stiff when it comes to engine). I would still take GW1’s skill system over what we have in GW2. In a heartbeat. For me it was so much better. Of course you can disagree. People like different things. But wasnt GW2 advertised as a better GW1? Here is an excerpt from their manifesto: “The original GW featured a CCG-like skill system that allowed each player to discover unique combos and new strategies. Theoretically every Elementalist in the game could approach combat with a different strategy. In fact players found thousands of interesting strategies over the years, most of which our designers never anticipated, which is always the sign of a flexible system. GW2 shares this flexible skill system. […]”

Illusions.3108:

If the Devs pulled a SWG and revamped the combat system completely to more accurately mirror GW1, would you support it or be very disgruntled??

Discuss

It would be hard with the so far expansionless GW2 for the team to pull a SWG NGE.

Because a big part of that was the just released but then nearly totally negated expansion that came out right before NGE.

Public Service Announcement

Each poster is asked to specify what they mean by combat: skills & abilities or fluidity of combat and animations

Ill sum this up for you folks

GW1 had a lot more skills/builds/teamwork/strategy/gametypes

GW2 has a lot better combat but lacks the above

there fixed this for you

Decrypter.1785:

Ill sum this up for you folks

GW1 had a lot more skills/builds/teamwork/strategy/gametypes

GW2 has a lot better combat but lacks the above

there fixed this for you

This.

Well… for one the combat in GW2 is:
- lacking diversity
- too fixed in roles (zerk/condi > everything)
- lacking specific class mechanics: seriously… each class plays the same pretty much: it’s either “spam condi damage” or “spam direct damage” and the skills per class are just a copy with a different animation
- …

Depends on what part of the combat system.

Fixed, pre-defined roles and the ‘static’ combat? No thanks (I’m still convinced it’s not the getting rid of fixed roles that’s the key issue)

The character building part of it (Attributes and Skills)? Yes please. Personally, I feel the defining factor of GW1 skills wasn’t the amount, but how you had a variety of ways to link skills together, and how they had their appropriate uses (for example, Glowing Ice on a Hexed foe). Although I’d be happy with a middle road of just giving us 2 – 3 skills for each weapon slot if it helps with balancing.

I liked combat in GW1, but I would stop playing GW2 if they changed the combat to mirror it. The ‘feel’ of the combat is very different in GW2 and I prefer the fast paced action oriented style to it. The combat in GW2 is one of the main reasons I play it. I would rather they fixed the system they have and provide more build diversity for each profession than remake it to that extent.

Even if you only scrapped the trait system, kept the mobile fast paced combat and only had skills to choose from I would not like it as much. For me, traits add an extra layer to your build, which adds flavour and focuses it to suit your playstyle. And though you can do that with just skills, I feel it would lose an interesting layer of build customization.

The GW2 combat system is a great one imo, it just needs fine tuning. My biggest wish is that they made traits respeccable anywhere, while out of combat. I like to change my build every once in a while, to stop things going stale, but it annoys me that I have to go back to town to do it. I don’t mind paying the small fee, but the inconvenience is not welcome. If they changed this, added a build template system and increased the number of viable builds each profession had, I would be a very happy bunny.

in GW1… oh the great combat system the game has. Being able to see the opponent’s casting bar, interuptions, hexes and enchantments, Assassin’s Lead Attack, Off-Hand Attack and Dual Attack (I miss those so bad!), freaking Protective Spirit and the “protection prayers” in overall. I mean I could go on like that forever with how many good mechanics there were.

The sad truth, it was difficult for new players to understand it all so they made it even simplier, Conditions and Boons. They tried to minimize UI watching and made it more about looking at the actual game. (Remember as a monk how the only thing you were seeing was red bars going down and you had to fill them up.
Now if you want to interupt, you HAVE to look at the target’s Animation.

As for GW2’s combat. It has a very good Combo system, seriously guys, look at it. It’s VERY solid mechanic. Sad thing is most ppl ignores it or it’s sometimes way too hard to use.

The game should be more about combos. The honest truth is that even if you try to use it, you’ll have to do it alone. Most ppl don’t even bother with it because you have to call them, most ppl won’t use their blasting or leap at the right moment.

That thief could put 12 stacks of might to 5 characters if he swapped to his shortbow and spent that initiative, but he’ll lose such DPS for himself so it’s a no-no.

Support in this game is TOTALLY VIABLE. You just need to find a good way of doing it. It might not be healing everyone. But it might be about healing a bit, removing conditions, applying boons, applying certains conditions on targets.

But don’t get me wrong, I wish the elite skill wasn’t existing. In GW1, it defined your entire build, getting Crip Shot instead of Burning Arrow changed your playstyle entirely. In here, it doesn’t make such a difference, the cooldown is WAY too high.

If you wanted to have good elites, they would need to be more useful or simply less good but more spammable.
Imagine Rampage as One if it was on a 12 seconds cooldown, but would grant you 6 seconds of Stab, Fury and Swiftness as well as 6 Mights.
That’s something I’d take anyday over current RaO.

Well, GW2 is excellent for its time, GW1 was excellent for its time. But one could be improved based on the first one.

I enjoyed GW combat immensely, but I enjoy GW2 combat even more to be honest. I have more viable build choices in GW2 than the original had, even with all the skills of the original. Keyword: viable. I have more skills at my disposal now, more versatility, less pigeon-holing (smite monks, remember!), and more fluidity with combat.

Not that they would ever change it, but no, leave to be. It’s one of the best combat systems out there right now, no need to break it.

Decrypter.1785:

Ill sum this up for you folks

GW1 had a lot more skills/builds/teamwork/strategy/gametypes

GW2 has a lot better combat but lacks the above

there fixed this for you

Being able to run around and jump doesn’t make combat better.

Somehow I feel a lot of you haven’t played high end PvP. Limitations are not disadvantages, static combat meant you actually had to put thought into where you stand while casting a spell. Heroes Ascent is a very good example of how complexity can make a more rewarding and deep experience, something which will never be possible in GW2. For this reason alone GW2’s lifespan will be rather limited, since it attracts the kind of people who hop from game to game. Also the core reason why this game never developed a community around it.

I completely disagree with everything about this thread.

and SWG…

but mostly SWG.

Fox.1054:

Decrypter.1785:

Ill sum this up for you folks

GW1 had a lot more skills/builds/teamwork/strategy/gametypes

GW2 has a lot better combat but lacks the above

there fixed this for you

Being able to run around and jump doesn’t make combat better.

Somehow I feel a lot of you haven’t played high end PvP. Limitations are not disadvantages, static combat meant you actually had to put thought into where you stand while casting a spell. Heroes Ascent is a very good example of how complexity can make a more rewarding and deep experience, something which will never be possible in GW2. For this reason alone GW2’s lifespan will be rather limited, since it attracts the kind of people who hop from game to game. Also the core reason why this game never developed a community around it.

You won’t get any support from others around here, but you are 100% right. Cast while moving removes the need to care where you are, because you can continue to do whatever you want and kite enemies endlessly. It might feel better, which is true, but it contributes to game’s zzzzzz combat. I think some kind of compromise might be to reduce movement by 90% while casting, just so it really drives home the point.

Fox.1054:

Being able to run around and jump doesn’t make combat better.

Somehow I feel a lot of you haven’t played high end PvP. Limitations are not disadvantages, static combat meant you actually had to put thought into where you stand while casting a spell. Heroes Ascent is a very good example of how complexity can make a more rewarding and deep experience, something which will never be possible in GW2. For this reason alone GW2’s lifespan will be rather limited, since it attracts the kind of people who hop from game to game. Also the core reason why this game never developed a community around it.

If you think the only improvement in the GW2 system is being able to run around and jump, this might explain why you prefer the GW1 system. Or it could simply be down to personal preference.

Just because you prefer the GW1 system does not automatically mean I or others who like the GW2 system have not played high end pvp (there by suggesting we are not very skilled players). Each system will appeal and suit different players, we like GW2 you like GW1, it’s really that simple. There is no need to insinuate lack of skill to make a point.

Both systems require skill to be effective, they just require different kinds of skill or a different way of thinking. One is not better than the other, as they are both very different systems. Whether one is better than the other is a matter of preference, nothing more.

I liked the skill system of GW1 but otherwise I find GW2’s combat to be superior.

Rin.1046:

Fox.1054:

Being able to run around and jump doesn’t make combat better.

Somehow I feel a lot of you haven’t played high end PvP. Limitations are not disadvantages, static combat meant you actually had to put thought into where you stand while casting a spell. Heroes Ascent is a very good example of how complexity can make a more rewarding and deep experience, something which will never be possible in GW2. For this reason alone GW2’s lifespan will be rather limited, since it attracts the kind of people who hop from game to game. Also the core reason why this game never developed a community around it.

If you think the only improvement in the GW2 system is being able to run around and jump, this might explain why you prefer the GW1 system. Or it could simply be down to personal preference.

Well, firstly you’ve misrepresented his opinion. He said it was a bad idea, and not an improvement at all. But please explain what the other “improvements” are

milo.6942:

Well, firstly you’ve misrepresented his opinion. He said it was a bad idea, and not an improvement at all. But please explain what the other “improvements” are

No, he said (as seen in his quote included in your post) “Being able to run around and jump doesn’t make combat better (i.e.- an improvement)”. Nowhere in his post does he say it was a bad idea, he simply said it is not better, which I agree with. I just didn’t agree with the rest of his post.

As to other improvements, they (IN MY OPINION and without insinuating people with opposite opinions are not worthy of making their opinions heard) are as follows:
– More versatile and viable builds
– More exciting, action oriented, feeling combat
– Less gimmicky/kitten builds

The above 3 plus the mobility it provides makes GW2 a much better system for my preferred playstyle.

I love Gw2 combat. I would quit the game if I had to play old school mmo mechanics again.

I played Gw1 for one day exactly. I couldn’t handle the instanced “rooms” or the stagnant combat.

Gw2 is my favorite MMO to date with Warhammer online close behind it.

it’s not just the combat system guys, there is the Party that made a difference in GW1 also.

I mean you couldn’t go out there alone and solo everything. You deff needed a party either players or heroes to fight the enemies which were also playing in Parties.

This is what most of you miss the much. It was like being in a Dungeon all the time. If you had to be grouped all the time in GW2, it wouldn’t work unless you have your henchies/heroes with you.

In GW1, a mob could be as tough as you if you were on the same level. 500 HP each and you had skills both of you which could lead to your death.
In GW2 you can fight 2-3 bandits and not even being worried about dieing that much.

Anyway, I guess GW1 is behind now, even though I still think it was better at least on the PvP side of it. Too bad GvGs are dead now.

I would rage about it to no end, quit then demand a full refund.

If i wanted static combat with a complex combat system id play gw1 or one of the other thousand MMOs that provide that.

For me the freedom of movement in combat, jumping and dodging what keeps me playing this game regardless of the depth of combat itself.

Decrypter.1785:

Ill sum this up for you folks

GW1 had a lot more skills/builds/teamwork/strategy/gametypes

GW2 has a lot better combat but lacks the above

there fixed this for you

Short and sweet.

Illusions.3108:

If the Devs pulled a SWG and revamped the combat system completely to more accurately mirror GW1, would you support it or be very disgruntled??

Discuss

I don’t want to be “that guy” but… Guess what? The devs already pulled a SWG, 2 months after release, when they completely turned inside out the whole game philosophy.

It really depends on what exactly they did. Some changes could be good, others would be disappointing after seeing the current GW2 system.

For example if they took away dodging, moving while in combat or weapon swapping where the skills change automatically to suit the weapon that would make the game worse and I’d be disappointed.

But it would be nice if they added some things from the first game, like more variety of skills. Maybe give us a few different sets to choose from for each weapon, or 2/3 skills for each slot that we can combine as we want.

Although the downside there is that it would make creating builds more complicated. In GW1 it was balanced out by the fact that everything apart from the skills was relatively simple. There was nothing like traits or even the GW2 attributes system: putting points into a line simply made skills related to it more powerful and occasionally had 1 extra effect like making a specific weapon more powerful. You also only had 4 pieces of armor with no inherent bonuses and no trinkets so gear was a lot simpler too.

Rin.1046:

- More versatile and viable builds
– More exciting, action oriented, feeling combat
– Less gimmicky/kitten builds

The above 3 plus the mobility it provides makes GW2 a much better system for my preferred playstyle.

I’d argue the opposite. The GW2 skill system is designed to limit build combinations. That was a problem in balancing GW1 (according to the devs) — the amount of build possibilities is staggering when considering the dual classing and total available skills. The GW2 system is also design to make bad builds not possible (maybe your use of the term “viable”), but that doesn’t mean there are more in GW2 vs GW1.

The combat is more action oriented, but I would not agree with more exciting. I never have a “gasp” moment when my team is successful… as in we surmounted some serious challenge with well coordinated play. Seriously it’s mostly button mashing with little regard to what your team is doing. Yeah you can pull of some brilliant manuevers with team coordinate but it’s not really necessary to succeed, so why bother (and most players dont because they’ve never learned to, and it’s not necessary).

As far as gimicky builds go, there’s a lot of gimicks in GW2. Stealth and clones top the list (and those are core mechanics!). If I dig deep enough into GW1, I guess you can call a R/N Touch build gimicky but I don’t think that even compares to clone/stealth spam, and it was hardly dominant in PvP. If you think monks are gimicky then you are off-base since that’s the core of the trinity present in every MMO (and GW1 monks were better because you could go prot instead of heal if you wanted).

In short the depth of GW1 was amazing. GW2 does not have those strengths — it’s more arcade-y feeling with some glitter.

The main focus of NGE was dumbing down a very complex game into a limited, directed, simple MMO like wow, with less skills, less thinking, less variety in playstyle and build.

This game launched that way.

Bagel.4598:

1000+ skills? Yes please.
Dual professions? Yes please.
Skills that worked well together, not just “Combo Fields”? Yes please.
First 5 skills whatever I like not tied to the weapon I wield? Yes please.
8 skills to choose whatever I want, not 1 designated heal? Yes please.
Traits that REALLY impact skills? Yes please..

Trade it all for jumping and dodging? In a heart beat.

yeah no thanks, gw1 combat and balance wasn’t that great and just like I find myself doing with daoc people seem to only remember the good stuff

Godmoney.2048:

I love Gw2 combat. I would quit the game if I had to play old school mmo mechanics again.

I played Gw1 for one day exactly. I couldn’t handle the instanced “rooms” or the stagnant combat.

Gw2 is my favorite MMO to date with Warhammer online close behind it.

Warhammer online just died but Anet should take a page out of their book in order to achieve the godly status.

juno.1840:

Rin.1046:

- More versatile and viable builds
– More exciting, action oriented, feeling combat
– Less gimmicky/kitten builds

The above 3 plus the mobility it provides makes GW2 a much better system for my preferred playstyle.

I’d argue the opposite. The GW2 skill system is designed to limit build combinations. That was a problem in balancing GW1 (according to the devs) — the amount of build possibilities is staggering when considering the dual classing and total available skills. The GW2 system is also design to make bad builds not possible (maybe your use of the term “viable”), but that doesn’t mean there are more in GW2 vs GW1.

The combat is more action oriented, but I would not agree with more exciting. I never have a “gasp” moment when my team is successful… as in we surmounted some serious challenge with well coordinated play. Seriously it’s mostly button mashing with little regard to what your team is doing. Yeah you can pull of some brilliant manuevers with team coordinate but it’s not really necessary to succeed, so why bother (and most players dont because they’ve never learned to, and it’s not necessary).

As far as gimicky builds go, there’s a lot of gimicks in GW2. Stealth and clones top the list (and those are core mechanics!). If I dig deep enough into GW1, I guess you can call a R/N Touch build gimicky but I don’t think that even compares to clone/stealth spam, and it was hardly dominant in PvP. If you think monks are gimicky then you are off-base since that’s the core of the trinity present in every MMO (and GW1 monks were better because you could go prot instead of heal if you wanted).

In short the depth of GW1 was amazing. GW2 does not have those strengths — it’s more arcade-y feeling with some glitter.

yes, exactly. when he replied there was more versatility and viable builds in gw2 I didn’t think was good use of my time to point out how many orders of magnitude he was off the mark

Decrypter.1785:

Ill sum this up for you folks

GW1 had a lot more skills/builds/teamwork/strategy/gametypes

GW2 has a lot better combat but lacks the above

there fixed this for you

GW1 had more bot team work and when you played with real humans you where playing beside them not with them because the 3 class system dose not make team work it make ppl play to different goals. Support for hp tank for hate and dps for the mobs hp.

GW2 has complete freedom of movement adding more strategy then “you take all the hits and i will do the other work for you”.

Jski.6180:

Decrypter.1785:

Ill sum this up for you folks

GW1 had a lot more skills/builds/teamwork/strategy/gametypes

GW2 has a lot better combat but lacks the above

there fixed this for you

GW1 had more bot team work and when you played with real humans you where playing beside them not with them because the 3 class system dose not make team work it make ppl play to different goals. Support for hp tank for hate and dps for the mobs hp.

GW2 has complete freedom of movement adding more strategy then “you take all the hits and i will do the other work for you”.

what did I just read
GW2 strategy for all content is “everyone dps and roll around” I guess you do have freedom of movement to roll any direction you choose

Holy Trinity is disgusting and awful, just throwing that out there.

If they wanted to make it more Guild Wars-cy then we’d end up with hundreds of skills to work with and changeable weapon skills or dual class system. :o