Guild Wars 2

penelopehannibal.8947:

Is this thread seriously happening? o.o

It’s the internet. You have to ask?

Well I made my previous post with the hope that this wasn’t another “let’s start up another kittening match” thread, but I’m not surprised at being disappointed.

This is why we can’t have nice things, people.

Well I guess yeah right. Why not?

Arnath.2319:

Scientia.8924:

Arnath.2319:

Creating a guild that is “pro-heterosexuality” is offensive and against the rules, it would be like creating a guild that was “pro-white”.

That is quite a narrow view of the big picture. A guild that is pro-______ in itself is not offensive or against the rules, it’s how those members conduct themselves towards those who don’t share the same views.

Do its members conduct themselves with pride, or with hatred?

Just because a guild is pro-something, does not mean they spread hatred –
does [LGBT] spread hatred towards heterosexuals? Hell no, they’re awesome

The same guidelines should apply to all guilds, whether you like them or not

pro-____ guilds are offensive when they are clearly trying to counter and aggravate a struggling minority. In particular issues of gender, race, and sexuality. A pro-hetero guild is a clear example of that. It is incredibly insensitive.

Nice to see that half the thread went right over your head.

A guild that is Pro-______ does not mean the guild is “I-hate-______”. It is hateful players with the intent to spread hate.

One can argue that the majority is insensitive of the minority, just as easily as someone can argue the minority is overly sensitive of the majority. You need another perspective.

When we allow one group to be recognized, we ought to allow all groups to be recognized.

All guilds are assumed to be pro-heterosexual unless stated otherwise, given that heterosexuals make up the majority. So there’s not much point tbh.

Every organization doesn’t necessarily have a mirror. African-Americans have the NAACP while Jewish people might have the Anti-Defamation League. White Anglo-Saxon Christians have never needed an organization such as those mentioned because historically they have not been discriminated against.

Heterosexuals don’t need a “safe space”. However, drunken frat boys, feminists, evangelical Christians, vegetarians etc. might want a guild where they discuss matters in private or be surrounded by like-minded people.

What is the purpose of your proposed guild?

And as people have mentioned, the LGBT doesn’t discriminate against heterosexuals. It sounds like you want to start a guild to discriminate against or at least exclude gay people – or at least troll them on a GW2 forum.

I get it, you’re unhappy that the Supreme Court ruled against your beliefs regarding marriage. But is this really the forum to bring it up your displeasure over the decision?

Equality and diversity doesn’t mean treating everyone the same, but recognising that individual needs are met in different ways.

If you need to have a group supporting Heterosexuality, because you feel that you need to be surrounded by like minded individuals from any reason from bullying to politics than go ahead. If you would like to have a straight pride event, please take one of the 364 days of the year where the heterosexuality community is the frontrunner for all major decisions, politics, religion and media as a good sign that things are going well for your people. Throw on some beige, and some spanks, and you march down that street with your head held high. I will support you and your rights, though they differ wildly from my own.

If however you are trying to start a hate group, its against GW2 terms of service.

I think this is all you need to know about the OP’s intentions from another thread:

My main account was suspended today for pointing out that gays wanted special snowflake status for wanting rainbow dye.

ANET is bias on whose opinion matters.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Can-the-Community-Team-Refrain-from-Politics/page/4#post5218960

There are guilds recruiting now that, half the time, I don’t even know who or what they’re recruiting. I saw a guild recruitment in map chat several weeks ago that referred to “muggles.” Tonight there was a guild recruiting in Mount Maelstrom targeting “the international transfeminist transpiracy” and referred to “gross cis people.” I looked all that up out curiousity. I wasn’t surprised by any of what I read. So, yeah I’d say a hetero guild would be fine. Personally, I think it’s getting out of hand.

RoxBuryNine.4210:

There are guilds recruiting now that, half the time, I don’t even know who or what they’re recruiting. I saw a guild recruitment in map chat several weeks ago that referred to “muggles.” Tonight there was a guild recruiting in Mount Maelstrom targeting “the international transfeminist transpiracy” and referred to “gross cis people.” I looked all that up out curiousity. I wasn’t surprised by any of what I read. So, yeah I’d say a hetero guild would be fine. Personally, I think it’s getting out of hand.

I’ve always kind of optimistically considered that second one satirical, but at the same time I’m not willing to find out because so often what I think is satire turns out to be genuine.

Sketch.3658:

Throw on some beige, and some spanks, and you march down that street with your head held high.

C’mon. Does anyone actually like beige?

ahaha the “why can’t i get special treatment TOO” fallacy rears its ugly head again… ouch

this kind of logic is what fuels misogyny, homophobia and racism eugh..

By all means.

I wonder what the point would be though, it’s not like there’s a need for a safe environment for heterosexual people. We aren’t exactly persecuted, vilified and excluded.

Lets be honest here. If you’re born as a straight white male in the western world, you’ve generally won the lottery of life compared to anyone else.

Nyx.7342:

Scientia.8924:

There is an invite only pro-White guild that has been around for at least a year. For the most part behave themselves out of fear of being banned, lol.

If guilds that promote race are allowed to exist, so should guilds that promote any sexual orientation, religion, etc. Just don’t kitten other people off

Wait wat…..there is?!?!

smh

… To be honest, it doesn’t surprise me. Perhaps a comment better suited for it’s own thread but I’ve experienced more racism in Gw2 than any game I’ve played.

To be fair, I haven’t played a lot of games but the majority of the ones I have have been online or MMO. And I regularly get racist comments about my character being black. And as someone who’s black IRL (albeit not as dark as my character) it hits home pretty hard sometimes. And I’m honestly not bothered by stereotypes or racism the majority of the time. People are ignorant… That’s life. But the degree to which I experience it in Gw2 is just disgusting sometimes.

This was the worst of what has been said to me

AshleyLynn.6814:

I just want to make sure that it’s not an issue, when I give it a name that parades my sexual views.

So, what you are going to do is basically “attacking” the LGBT guild due to not agreeing with them?

Heck, the LGBT guild have nothing at all to do with “parading sexual views” in the first place, seeing as everyone is allowed to join, even if they are 100% straight.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Lets be honest here. If you’re born as a straight white male in the western world, you’ve generally won the lottery of life compared to anyone else.

True. Especially if you’re also born to rich parents and can make a living modeling, acting, singing, playing an instrument, or all of the above.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

By all means.

I wonder what the point would be though, it’s not like there’s a need for a safe environment for heterosexual people. We aren’t exactly persecuted, vilified and excluded.

Lets be honest here. If you’re born as a straight white male in the western world, you’ve generally won the lottery of life compared to anyone else.

For some people, it doesn’t matter if everything is going their way. If there’s something they don’t agree with happening in the world, or around them, even if it’s not directly effecting them, they have to eliminate it or impose themselves.

… Hitler comes to mind.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

And as someone who’s black IRL (albeit not as dark as my character) it hits home pretty hard sometimes.

I never really realized how racist people nowadays are until I became good friends with some people that moved to the US from Africa a few years ago. In the Midwest, I assumed people believed like I did – that color doesn’t matter and everyone is equal – but that was an illusion for me, sadly. What my friends were treated like on a regular basis shocked and angered me. It’s just so wrong.

do whatever you want

Celtic Lady.3729:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

And as someone who’s black IRL (albeit not as dark as my character) it hits home pretty hard sometimes.

I never really realized how racist people nowadays are until I became good friends with some people that moved to the US from Africa a few years ago. In the Midwest, I assumed people believed like I did – that color doesn’t matter and everyone is equal – but that was an illusion for me, sadly. What my friends were treated like on a regular basis shocked and angered me. It’s just so wrong.

Yep… I have severe anxiety and a mild case of agoraphobia so I don’t get out of the house much… But I’ve still experienced it both IRL and in game more times than I’d care to count. As I’ve said, it’s not something that bothers me for the most part. If people want to think that way, fine, as long as they know I’m not going to be polite to them. Still, that’s not to say it doesn’t hurt sometimes.

Less about me and more about OP though, it’s the very same in that situation. A lot of gays might not care if you want to make a pro-hetero guild but others might be pretty upset by it… So best be prepared for the kind of attention it might get.

AshleyLynn.6814:

Is it okay if I started an openly pro-heterosexual guild? Because equal rights.. Right?

Wait, so a group of people start a guild that welcomes like minded individuals so that they can play together and have a place to be with people.

Your response to discovering this guild is that you need to create something in direct opposition to it, out of what is apparently some bizarre kind of spite?

You haven’t actually thought this through have you?

The last I checked, straight people aren’t an oppressed minority who face bigotry in their day to day lives and would thus need a place to find someone like minded friends. The last I check, I could just stick my head of the door and see any number of fellow straight people.

But you know, to each his own. If you want to make a guild based around a knee-jerk reaction to other people being happy, well that says alot about you.

edit: Oh and as for the title “allowed to exist”? Really? So you think such a group shouldn’t be allowed to exist?

wow..

just..

wow.

wolfyrik.2017:

AshleyLynn.6814:

Is it okay if I started an openly pro-heterosexual guild? Because equal rights.. Right?

But you know, to each his own. If you want to make a guild based around a knee-jerk reaction to other people being happy, well that says alot about you.

Or, they are heterosexual and would like to create a guild around like-minded people, without automatically being accused of bad intentions.

Kind of like what you just did.

The only knee-jerk reaction I see here is your post.

AshleyLynn.6814:

Is it okay if I started an openly pro-heterosexual guild? Because equal rights.. Right?

Why not? A guild of manly men and womenly women talking about men and women sounds fine with me.
I mean I wouldnt join it because it seems kind of gay but whatever. Each to their own.

Sketch.3658:

Equality and diversity doesn’t mean treating everyone the same, but recognising that individual needs are met in different ways.

If you need to have a group supporting Heterosexuality, because you feel that you need to be surrounded by like minded individuals from any reason from bullying to politics than go ahead. If you would like to have a straight pride event, please take one of the 364 days of the year where the heterosexuality community is the frontrunner for all major decisions, politics, religion and media as a good sign that things are going well for your people. Throw on some beige, and some spanks, and you march down that street with your head held high. I will support you and your rights, though they differ wildly from my own.

If however you are trying to start a hate group, its against GW2 terms of service.

As a straight woman I resent the idea that I would ever voluntarily wear beige. The idea of being proud of wearing beige is completely beyond me.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Nyx.7342:

Scientia.8924:

There is an invite only pro-White guild that has been around for at least a year. For the most part behave themselves out of fear of being banned, lol.

If guilds that promote race are allowed to exist, so should guilds that promote any sexual orientation, religion, etc. Just don’t kitten other people off

Wait wat…..there is?!?!

smh

… To be honest, it doesn’t surprise me. Perhaps a comment better suited for it’s own thread but I’ve experienced more racism in Gw2 than any game I’ve played.

To be fair, I haven’t played a lot of games but the majority of the ones I have have been online or MMO. And I regularly get racist comments about my character being black. And as someone who’s black IRL (albeit not as dark as my character) it hits home pretty hard sometimes. And I’m honestly not bothered by stereotypes or racism the majority of the time. People are ignorant… That’s life. But the degree to which I experience it in Gw2 is just disgusting sometimes.

This was the worst of what has been said to me

I have to say that surprises me. I also have several black (and otherwise non-white) human and norn characters (although my main could probably pass for white if people aren’t looking closely) and I’ve never seen anyone say anything like that.

I wonder if it’s different on the NA servers to the EU ones?

RoxBuryNine.4210:

There are guilds recruiting now that, half the time, I don’t even know who or what they’re recruiting. I saw a guild recruitment in map chat several weeks ago that referred to “muggles.” Tonight there was a guild recruiting in Mount Maelstrom targeting “the international transfeminist transpiracy” and referred to “gross cis people.” I looked all that up out curiousity. I wasn’t surprised by any of what I read. So, yeah I’d say a hetero guild would be fine. Personally, I think it’s getting out of hand.

There’s all kinds of crazy guild recruitment messages in this game and I’m fairly certain at least half of them aren’t serious. The one below for example.

uknortherner.2670:

I think this is all you need to know about the OP’s intentions from another thread:

My main account was suspended today for pointing out that gays wanted special snowflake status for wanting rainbow dye.

ANET is bias on whose opinion matters.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Can-the-Community-Team-Refrain-from-Politics/page/4#post5218960

And yet, I can understand his viewpoint.

I of course know that ‘straight’ people have never been discriminated against, but if there was a hetero pride march anywhere, they would be blasted with criticism and called bigots.

These days, the most marginalised people are straight, white, young males who are single and without religion. Seems theres a focus group for everything, except them.

Who gives a kitten? If you want to be a kitten, go ahead.

I certainly want to be a kitten.

plz can I be a kitten?

Danikat.8537:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

… To be honest, it doesn’t surprise me. Perhaps a comment better suited for it’s own thread but I’ve experienced more racism in Gw2 than any game I’ve played.

To be fair, I haven’t played a lot of games but the majority of the ones I have have been online or MMO. And I regularly get racist comments about my character being black. And as someone who’s black IRL (albeit not as dark as my character) it hits home pretty hard sometimes. And I’m honestly not bothered by stereotypes or racism the majority of the time. People are ignorant… That’s life. But the degree to which I experience it in Gw2 is just disgusting sometimes.

This was the worst of what has been said to me

I have to say that surprises me. I also have several black (and otherwise non-white) human and norn characters (although my main could probably pass for white if people aren’t looking closely) and I’ve never seen anyone say anything like that.

I wonder if it’s different on the NA servers to the EU ones?

Nope. I’ve been on EU and NA both and have had it happen to me on both. It’s possible that I’ve experienced this because I’m a pretty vocal person (I tend to chat a lot with people because I don’t have much of a social life) but I’m not obnoxious or rude or anything like that. I’m not sure the reason but again, I’ve never experienced racism anywhere else as much as I have in Gw2. And I’ve played DC Universe Online… And that community is pretty rough.

Uhh so this thread was made by a homophobe that failed to make his point, it’s funny how he suggested that gay people would dislike a pro-hetero guild though. lol.

Who knew you played GW2, Justice Scalia?! What class Norn do you play? I can easily guess where. =/

Andraus.3874:

AshleyLynn.6814:

I just want to make sure that it’s not an issue, when I give it a name that parades my sexual views.

By all means go for it. Just don’t expect much membership and probably a fair amount of people blocking you.

That’s pretty messed up.

Scientia.8924:

There is an invite only pro-White guild that has been around for at least a year. For the most part they behave themselves out of fear of being banned, lol.

I’ve never heard of that; what is the name of this guild?

Andraus.3874:

By all means go for it. Just don’t expect much membership and probably a fair amount of people blocking you.

That’s a pretty efficient way to block everyone you don’t want any interaction with. You let them block you instead.

Scientia.8924:

wolfyrik.2017:

AshleyLynn.6814:

Is it okay if I started an openly pro-heterosexual guild? Because equal rights.. Right?

But you know, to each his own. If you want to make a guild based around a knee-jerk reaction to other people being happy, well that says alot about you.

Or, they are heterosexual and would like to create a guild around like-minded people, without automatically being accused of bad intentions.

Kind of like what you just did.

The only knee-jerk reaction I see here is your post.

It’s not a knee-jerk reaction? Mine is? That’s hilarious

The vast majority of guilds are full of straight people. The only reason to start such a group IS for bad intentions. It IS a knee-jerk reaction because the OP and straight people in general are not an oppressed minority group. Finding other straight people is literally as easy as looking out of the door. I find it deeply sad that a person in a privileged position would be trying to cry foul at other people trying to form a safe, welcoming community, something wheich they may well lack in modern society.

When Straight people are the minority, then you may have an argument. Until then….not so much.

Hey if you want to start a guild built soley to spite the community building of other people, go ahead, we wouldn’t want to stand in your way. But at least be honest about it and call it say, The Straight-only Homophobia club or something.
I’m straight, but I don’t recognise the OP as a like-minded individual nor would I recognise the need for such a guild. Such a guild would not speak for me or the majority of straight people. There’s nothing about being straight that puts me at a disadvantage, requiring an online group where I can find solace among other straight people and if you’re honest you’ll admit that there isn’t for you either.

The only excuse for a group that would be built soley for heterosexuals would be that you’re a tiny minority of homophobes who want to find solace, safety and community away from the majority of rational straight people who aren’t afraid of homosexuals. You want a place where you can practice being intolerant and homophobic away from judgement.

Tl;dr
If you want to start a straight-only club, knock yourselves out, but you only speak for a tiny minority, not the rest of us, so make it clear in your guild name. “homophobes only”.

Why is this even a thread here?

The hypocrisy certain people are attempting to demonstrate suffers from one problem which I think is obvious to everyone.

“Pro-White” groups tend to in fact be Anti-Black groups, and “Pro-Heteroseuxal” groups are often Anti-LGBT.

Until LGBT groups get their own version of the KKK and go around lynching straight people then I think there’s a bit of false equivalency going on isn’t there. I’ve never known a pro-LGBT group to be against heterosexuals. But if you can find one you can go ahead and accuse them of bigotry and heterophobia if you like.

Swizzle.7982:

“Pro-White” groups tend to in fact be Anti-Black groups, and “Pro-Heteroseuxal” groups are often Anti-LGBT.

Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence for this claim, and why we shouldn’t assume the same that “Pro-LGBT” groups tend to in fact be Anti-Heterosexual, and so forth?

Yeah, because heterosexuals are the totally a suppressed group in our society. This would be the same thing as creating a guild that was pro-white. It’s disgusting.

Revolutionen.5693:

This would be the same thing as creating a guild that was pro-white. It’s disgusting.

What is wrong with people being proud of their race?
Would you also be against a Pro-Black guild?

Blackworm.2167:

Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence for this claim, and why we shouldn’t assume the same that “Pro-LGBT” groups tend to in fact be Anti-Heterosexual, and so forth?

Yes, the evidence is called the real world, you should take a look at it. Can you point out a group which describes itself as being uniquely pro-white which isn’t a hate group? Or an LGBT group which has an anti-hetero agenda?

Ironic really, the whole reason this is being discussed is because one group of people just got the right to do something that another group of people have always had the right to do. But sure lets paint LGBT groups as hetero hating hypocrites, that’ll be fun.

GuzziHero.2467:

uknortherner.2670:

I think this is all you need to know about the OP’s intentions from another thread:

My main account was suspended today for pointing out that gays wanted special snowflake status for wanting rainbow dye.

ANET is bias on whose opinion matters.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Can-the-Community-Team-Refrain-from-Politics/page/4#post5218960

And yet, I can understand his viewpoint.

I of course know that ‘straight’ people have never been discriminated against, but if there was a hetero pride march anywhere, they would be blasted with criticism and called bigots.

These days, the most marginalised people are straight, white, young males who are single and without religion. Seems theres a focus group for everything, except them.

No, just no.

I’m young, atheist straight and white and I reject the idea that I’d need a focus group. Being non-religious is the only thing on your list that counts as a minority assuming you’re living anywhere in the “west”. And then I’d argue that non-religion is a minority group in need of support in America but not anywhere else. If you’re not in America then you pretty much have no excuse at all.

We don’t have straight pride marches because we have nothing to fight against. Gay Pride isn’t just a festival, it’s a rally of recognition. It’s away of being seen and being normalised, celebrated even in an attempt to fight against prejudice and hatred. Exactly what prejudice to straight people need to fight against? What oppression are we standing up to?

Now if you want to start an atheism pride march because you’re living in the USA or some similar near-theocracy, I’ll support you. Wholeheartedly.

Swizzle.7982:

Blackworm.2167:

Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence for this claim, and why we shouldn’t assume the same that “Pro-LGBT” groups tend to in fact be Anti-Heterosexual, and so forth?

Yes, the evidence is called the real world, you should take a look at it. Can you point out a group which describes itself as being uniquely pro-white which isn’t a hate group? Or an LGBT group which has an anti-hetero agenda?

Ironic really, the whole reason this is being discussed is because one group of people just got the right to do something that another group of people have always had the right to do. But sure lets paint LGBT groups as hetero hating hypocrites, that’ll be fun.

“Can you point out a group which describes itself as being uniquely pro-white which isn’t a hate group? Or an LGBT group which has an anti-hetero agenda?”

The burden of proof is on you, since you made the claim. I’m merely asking for evidence on the contrary, and why one shouldn’t make that assumption. So far, you haven’t given any.

You can argue that any “Pro” group is a hate group, and vice versa. You seem to be arguing with a fair deal of bias and / or preconceptions.

“The real world” isn’t very specific and only serves as anecdotal evidence in this scenario, which doesn’t hold up.
The fact of the matter is, what I said cannot be argued. A “Pro”-anything group can and will be called out as “Anti”-whatever their opposite is, oftentimes based only on emotions rather than reason.

“But sure lets paint LGBT groups as hetero hating hypocrites, that’ll be fun.”
Strawman argument.

Swizzle.7982:

Blackworm.2167:

Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence for this claim, and why we shouldn’t assume the same that “Pro-LGBT” groups tend to in fact be Anti-Heterosexual, and so forth?

Yes, the evidence is called the real world, you should take a look at it. Can you point out a group which describes itself as being uniquely pro-white which isn’t a hate group? Or an LGBT group which has an anti-hetero agenda?

Ironic really, the whole reason this is being discussed is because one group of people just got the right to do something that another group of people have always had the right to do. But sure lets paint LGBT groups as hetero hating hypocrites, that’ll be fun.

I’d have your babies, but I couldn’t cheat on my woman

Have +10 internets instead

Blackworm.2167:

Swizzle.7982:

Blackworm.2167:

Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence for this claim, and why we shouldn’t assume the same that “Pro-LGBT” groups tend to in fact be Anti-Heterosexual, and so forth?

Yes, the evidence is called the real world, you should take a look at it. Can you point out a group which describes itself as being uniquely pro-white which isn’t a hate group? Or an LGBT group which has an anti-hetero agenda?

Ironic really, the whole reason this is being discussed is because one group of people just got the right to do something that another group of people have always had the right to do. But sure lets paint LGBT groups as hetero hating hypocrites, that’ll be fun.

“Can you point out a group which describes itself as being uniquely pro-white which isn’t a hate group? Or an LGBT group which has an anti-hetero agenda?”

The burden of proof is on you, since you made the claim. I’m merely asking for evidence on the contrary, and why I shouldn’t make that assumption. So far, you haven’t given any.

You can argue that any “Pro” group is a hate group, and vice versa. You seem to be arguing with a fair deal of bias and / or preconceptions.

“The real world” isn’t very specific and only serves as anecdotal evidence in this scenario, which doesn’t hold up.
The fact of the matter is, what I said cannot be argued. A “Pro”-anything group can and will be called out as “Anti”-whatever their opposite is.

You can’t really refute that with any evidence.

Erm no. That not true at all. The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim. If you think that the LGBT group or any “pro” group could be “anti- something else” group instead, you’d have to prove that claim. Pro-one thing and anti-another are two positions on two different positions. A person can be pro gay right and pro straight rights. They are not mutually exclusive premises. Pro-and anti can only ever be opposing positions on the same premise.

For example the pro-choice movement for women to have birth control rights. The opposition call themselves pro-life but it’s really a nonsense name. The opposition to pro-choice can only be Anti-choice. Which is what they really are. The pro-lifers are demonstrably wrong in choosing their name of course, because the opposit of pro-life is anti-life and I’m sure that you’d argue, very few people are anti-life. Those few hypothetical people, I’m sure you also could argue would be pro-their own life.

I am pro-gay rights, I am also pro-straight rights. Because they’re two different premises.

Premise 1. Equal Rights for Homosexuals
Premise 2. Equal rights for Heterosexuals.

You can be for both, against both or a mix.

I’d argue that an optimal premise would be

1. Equal rights for all people.

As a straight man I have a vested interest in having my own sexuality represented. The thing is, my sexuality doesn’t need to be respresented because straight is already the respresented majority. If someone were to suggest that I’m anti-straight rights, you’d consider them ridiculous, wouldn’t you? You’d want them to explain how they came to that conclusion? You’d have to ask, why would I want to see myself lose rights? You can’t ask me to prove that I’m pro-straight rights, how exactly could such a thing be proven? I’ve never had to be in a position to fight for the rights of straight people, we’ve never had our rights taken away or denied. The burden would have to be on the person claiming that I’m anti-straight rights.

I’m amazed that this is even needing to be debated. This is exactly the same argument people used to have in the west about rights for black people. Just look at the arguments that popped up over education, employment and the countless other problems that blacks faced before emancipation. Whites crying and moaning how unfair it was, all the special treatment they were getting. The complaints are exactly the same. Hell I remember my own Grandparent explaining how she hated black people because they kept getting special treatment. By special treatment she meant, laws designed to give them equal rights and opportunities. Just how straight people are whinging now about the gays getting equal rights and opportunities.

My one solace tho, is that the other thing that was the same then as it is now, is this;
the people complaining about the rights being granted, were the minority.

And they lost.

Blackworm.2167:

Revolutionen.5693:

This would be the same thing as creating a guild that was pro-white. It’s disgusting.

What is wrong with people being proud of their race?
Would you also be against a Pro-Black guild?

If you have to ask that question, please don’t reproduce.

and the segregation of the community continues….

It’s threads like these the reason why more LGBT guilds are needed, not less.

Blackworm.2167:

You can argue that any “Pro” group is a hate group, and vice versa. You seem to be arguing with a fair deal of bias and / or preconceptions.

“The real world” isn’t very specific and only serves as anecdotal evidence in this scenario, which doesn’t hold up.
The fact of the matter is, what I said cannot be argued. A “Pro”-anything group can and will be called out as “Anti”-whatever their opposite is, oftentimes using only emotion as their reasoning.

Firstly you don’t understand how burden of proof works, secondly, while “Real world” may be a nebulous concept to you it’s actually the basis for most evidence, strangely.

Thirdly, you’re wrong. A pro anything group is obviously not automatically an anti whatever their opposite is. Groups which have bigoted, racist or prejudiced agendas however do like to hide behind the whole “But we’re just pro white people!” card (for example). Now, this is demonstrably not true for such groups, their “pro” stance happens to almost always include the aforementioned bigotry and prejudice towards other groups. Now this next part might be hard for you to grasp as it takes some comprehension of contextual factors. While it could, theoretically be possible for a pro-white group of people to exist, what exactly would they do? Have parties that only white people were invited to? Well that just crossed the line into discrimination. Perhaps they would invite people of other ethnicities? (Point to the KKK rally that does that please.) Well then we’d have to ask in what sense is this in fact pro-white, what is it that they are gathering for? Perhaps it is to support other white people who are marginalised by society? Seems unlikely. Perhaps it is to foster a safe environment for like minded (Though about what remains unknown) people? As opposed to what, the general environment?

Of course, the use of “Pro” by these groups is simply a way of justifying hate towards others, they aren’t pro white people at all, they are pro “people who share their ideology and hatred towards other races”. You can see this in the way certain white groups talk about white people who choose to have non-white spouses. That’s the real world.

Now I’ll let you go though all that again with Pro-black groups and Pro-LGBT groups, you’ll find that social context and historical context mean that a lot of those questions can now be answered and that by being pro towards one of these groups does not necessitate being anti any other group. That’s not to say that one day in the far off future the world won’t be ruled by tyrannical groups of LGBT people who deny basic human rights to heterosexual people – Then you might have a point. Pehaps then you’ll also see why context is important and why everything you say is wrong.

Um… What’s wrong with the colour beige?

Swizzle.7982:

Blackworm.2167:

You can argue that any “Pro” group is a hate group, and vice versa. You seem to be arguing with a fair deal of bias and / or preconceptions.

“The real world” isn’t very specific and only serves as anecdotal evidence in this scenario, which doesn’t hold up.
The fact of the matter is, what I said cannot be argued. A “Pro”-anything group can and will be called out as “Anti”-whatever their opposite is, oftentimes using only emotion as their reasoning.

Firstly you don’t understand how burden of proof works, secondly, while “Real world” may be a nebulous concept to you it’s actually the basis for most evidence, strangely.

Thirdly, you’re wrong. A pro anything group is obviously not automatically an anti whatever their opposite is. Groups which have bigoted, racist or prejudiced agendas however do like to hide behind the whole “But we’re just pro white people!” card (for example). Now, this is demonstrably not true for such groups, their “pro” stance happens to almost always include the aforementioned bigotry and prejudice towards other groups. Now this next part might be hard for you to grasp as it takes some comprehension of contextual factors. While it could, theoretically be possible for a pro-white group of people to exist, what exactly would they do? Have parties that only white people were invited to? Well that just crossed the line into discrimination. Perhaps they would invite people of other ethnicities? (Point to the KKK rally that does that please.) Well then we’d have to ask in what sense is this in fact pro-white, what is it that they are gathering for? Perhaps it is to support other white people who are marginalised by society? Seems unlikely. Perhaps it is to foster a safe environment for like minded (Though about what remains unknown) people? As opposed to what, the general environment?

Of course, the use of “Pro” by these groups is simply a way of justifying hate towards others, they aren’t pro white people at all, they are pro “people who share their ideology and hatred towards other races”. You can see this in the way certain white groups talk about white people who choose to have non-white spouses. That’s the real world.

Now I’ll let you go though all that again with Pro-black groups and Pro-LGBT groups, you’ll find that social context and historical context mean that a lot of those questions can now be answered and that by being pro towards one of these groups does not necessitate being anti any other group. That’s not to say that one day in the far off future the world won’t be ruled by tyrannical groups of LGBT people who deny basic human rights to heterosexual people – Then you might have a point. Pehaps then you’ll also see why context is important and why everything you say is wrong.

Swizzle.7982:

“Pro-White” groups tend to in fact be Anti-Black groups, and “Pro-Heteroseuxal” groups are often Anti-LGBT.

These positive claims require evidence you still haven’t provided.

Do you have a victim complex or something?
Now it just seems like you’re in denial, as evidenced by your circular-logic and double-standards.
Using your logic, I can just assume any “Pro” group that doesn’t appeal to my interests specifically is a hate group; with no rationale at all.

If you’re offended by what I say, asking you to back up your claim, you’d probably be better off not responding. Or not making claims.

Becka Williams.4978:

I’ve seen some explicitly Christian guilds advertising in game. WWJD, for one. I have to assume they’re pro-heterosexual. Nice try, tho.

This guild denied my membership when I explained I’m gay. I thought, better tell them now then it come up some time down the road and I get kicked after I’m invested in a guild.