Guild Wars 2

We’ve all heard/said this before. Don’t play something that you don’t like to do because it is unnecessary frustration. It is just common sense which is no wonder people use the phrase to combat complaints.

However, its been getting on my nerves how readily it is used to shut down that which could be a legitimate issue worth mentioning, especially one that gets brought up multiple times. It is a formal fallacy that uses common sense to discredit opposing arguments regardless of their validity.

So I shall explain why this is so for everyone’s reference.

It all boils down to the $60 (or w/e was paid) that we’ve all given up to have access to this game. You cannot play the game nor access the forums without an account which can only be bought. You can read them for free, however.

This payment is non-refundable after 30 days. It takes around that time for disillusionment to start setting in because it’s reoccurring issues are held down by the fun parts of the game that keep us from storming off back into the MMO market. So by that time we’re hooked and playing because we know that further payments are our choice to make.

The only thing that will turn us away is the gradual buildup of what players often label as “dolyak crap”. And it’ll suck to leave because of our commitment put into the game.

Hell, it took me 3 months to realize the hype train derailed itself. I’m way past getting my refund. I probably wouldn’t have bought this game if I knew beforehand that it would fall into ruts both of their own design and those suffered by most MMOs.

But that is what makes this phrase a stupid argument. Most of us have already put in money we won’t ever see again. After those first 30 days it turns into a commitment for GW2 players that gets bigger as time goes on.

Most of us here are past that 4-5 month mark where we have multiple 80s and made enough gold in items to buy a legendary (or a precursor). Most of us here have started noticing “dolyak crap” on our 1st-3rd month in. You can’t just tell us to abandon what we’ve worked on for so long because we see things that could be done better or made more fun.

So it isn’t as simple as, “Don’t like it? Gtfo.” And I know some of you are thinking, “Well you’ve already got your money’s worth…” but then that isn’t for you to decide. It is their money.

Understand this before you write someone off and tell them to go away.

People have gotten refunds more than 30 days after purchase and some people even up to six months.

However, if you’re spending 60 bucks and you have a game you’re playing for 4-5 months, most people would consider that a win.

The commitment is not to your character but to your friends and family playing the game.
I still play because i have a few people i like being around with, not because this game has a huge draw on me to play or keeps me interested in its mechanics and story. (wich it should). No purely other people who you interact with is what keeps me playing. Otherwise i would have skipped this fluff anet trew out the last year and picked up
the other 50 awesome games released last years.

The other commitment is because of guildwars. there is still a hope that guildwars2 can live up to its predecessor. somewhere deep deep buried under my layers of cynicism.

But yeah, don’t like it don’t play it!
I get what you mean

Ive sunk over 1000 hours into the game and every single one of it is worth it, but then i hit a wall. Do i think the game needs endgame after 1000 hours? Yes, theres only 3 types of end game for co-op/online games that makes them last. 1. Competition (see mobas)
2. Gear treadmill (see wow, diablo, borderlands) 3. sandbox and freedom (see minecraft, EvE online). Gw2 has none of them and is strugling on keeping at least the competition part. thats why i think it could have been a perfect co-op experience with new game every 5-6 years rather than MMO.

Immensus.9732:

Ive sunk over 1000 hours into the game and every single one of it is worth it, but then i hit a wall. Do i think the game needs endgame after 1000 hours? Yes, theres only 3 types of end game for co-op/online games that makes them last. 1. Competition (see mobas)
2. Gear treadmill (see wow, diablo, borderlands) 3. sandbox and freedom (see minecraft, EvE online). Gw2 has none of them and is strugling on keeping at least the competition part. thats why i think it could have been a perfect co-op experience with new game every 5-6 years rather than MMO.

I think the MMO genre is too new to say what will and won’t work longterm anymore. Years ago, when MMOs weren’t main stream you might have been right.

But I suspect there are enough people now who are achievement point hunters and people who like to play dress up with different alts that could carry a game like this indefinitely.

A lot of people would leave, but in my opinion the numbers left behind would be enough to fund the game.

And because the genre is new and growing and changing, we won’t know if this will work until it’s actually tried.

Vayne.8563:

People have gotten refunds more than 30 days after purchase and some people even up to six months.

However, if you’re spending 60 bucks and you have a game you’re playing for 4-5 months, most people would consider that a win.

I gotta ask… where did you find players who got a refund after 6 months? Refund tickets are good for the first 30 days after purchase (so says the knowledge base).

yolo swaggins.2570:

Vayne.8563:

People have gotten refunds more than 30 days after purchase and some people even up to six months.

However, if you’re spending 60 bucks and you have a game you’re playing for 4-5 months, most people would consider that a win.

I gotta ask… where did you find players who got a refund after 6 months? Refund tickets are good for the first 30 days after purchase (so says the knowledge base).

It was all over the forums at the time when Anet released ascended gear. The change in direction was something I guess they felt that warranted a refund for some people. There are people who did get refunds after that, including a couple who were in my guild at that time, who saw it as a betrayal.

Vayne.8563:

It was all over the forums at the time when Anet released ascended gear. The change in direction was something I guess they felt that warranted a refund for some people. There are people who did get refunds after that, including a couple who were in my guild at that time, who saw it as a betrayal.

I can only imagine how acidic the submissions might have been. :I

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

The commitment is not to your character but to your friends and family playing the game.
I still play because i have a few people i like being around with, not because this game has a huge draw on me to play or keeps me interested in its mechanics and story. (wich it should). No purely other people who you interact with is what keeps me playing. Otherwise i would have skipped this fluff anet trew out the last year and picked up
the other 50 awesome games released last years.

The other commitment is because of guildwars. there is still a hope that guildwars2 can live up to its predecessor. somewhere deep deep buried under my layers of cynicism.

But yeah, don’t like it don’t play it!
I get what you mean

Players are content too. Just want to point that out. :P

Finally, someone understands that whether the person got his values worth is up to the player. Gaming hour vs time spent is an inaccurate representation of how much fun someone had at a game. An extreme example is if say i played a game for 1000 hours, 995 of those hours were spent brainlessly grinding to get to the point where i could enjoy the last 5 hours of playing either because of the carrot at the end of the content unlock or whatever. would that be money well spent?.. will I look back and be like WOW kitten that was one fine experience?.. no i won’t.

Lifestealer.4910:

Finally, someone understands that whether the person got his values worth is up to the player. Gaming hour vs time spent is an inaccurate representation of how much fun someone had at a game. An extreme example is if say i played a game for 1000 hours, 995 of those hours were spent brainlessly grinding to get to the point where i could enjoy the last 5 hours of playing either because of the carrot at the end of the content unlock or whatever. would that be money well spent?.. will I look back and be like WOW kitten that was one fine experience?.. no i won’t.

On the other hand if you spend 995 hours doing something you’re not having fun with, it’s your fault. There are tons of things in the world I don’t like.

I wouldn’t join a golf club because I don’t like golf. And I wouldn’t play golf.

There are many games I’ve purchased, played for a few hours and walked away from. I don’t go on the warpath over it.

I go buy another game and start having fun again.

The 30-day limit on refunds is something that was changed in the last year or so. The refund time-limit used to be six months.

If you were one of those forum-users that spent a lot of time in the Account Issues sub-forum, you would be aware of this.

It was a very, very generous policy for a long time.

I’ve spend 6000 hours and I’m still finding new stuff.

I have 15 characters.and I have my routines now (AC full, Cof) 1,2 each day, daily, and some exploring (say one area on an alt which hasn’t got full map yet. )

I’ve been there and done that 8 times now, I can be helpfull to others, I do not even ask money. People appreciate it, I’ve become Officer in one guild and Co-leader in another. I’ve been Officer in more guilds, but left some. I can appreciate a lot, I do not have so many goals now, I bought most dyes, have 2 legendaries, and 2 times full ascended for my main, ascended weapons for 10 of the 15 and ascended trinkets on 14 of the 15. I am still not lvl 50 fractals, I’m 35 and it’s good, most people who I play with now prefer 11-39 anyways, Sometimes I do a lvl 39 and get another level.

I spend way to much on this game and I’m happy anyways. I do not feel commited other then the fact I have no longer an active account on some of the other games I used to play before. (meaning I’ve not logged into some for over 2 years now. )
Those games are open for my return, and this one will be as well should I care to go somewhere else for a while.

It was the best 75 euro’s (pre-order) since the 5 euro’s I payed for gw1 about 5 yrs ago (bought gw1 from a discount rack and managed to get the price down another 2 and a half euro’s) I played gw1 for 2 years in a row; loving every moment as well, I was more immersed in gw1, and I have very good memories regarding many other games I played before.

While gw2 is not as immersive as gw1, the plot is weaker, the game itself is good, and it’s just different to find content in the end. There wil be more dungeons, there will be end game content, but at the moment we are not at the point where people should be begging for it, all content is playable.It used to be balanced better before the NPE, but it doesn’tr matter… at least not for me.

I do think if you had more then 60 hours of fun form this game it shouldbe worth the 1 euro/hour you spend, There are few things so cheap… for me with 6000 hours the eurocent I played per hour is just a minor expense. I payed more for convenience and some armors. I’m past that point atm, noticing I have done much if not all. I make about 70-100 gold each week. and I have not many things I can spend it on anymore, so I’m buying the missing dyes, (just need some which are about 8-25 gold, got all expensive ones and all cheap ones. ) I could be saving up for half a year and buy legendaries, but I do not care too much about them. It’s not a goal.

If I wanted to grind I could get myself ascended armor of 14 characters, and legendaries, but why would I need to? I prefer leading Guild missions on one of my guilds, doing my AC paths and Cof.
I experiment with builds, I’ve seen every class in zerk, doing “fast runs.” I do not care about it anymore, I just do runs, and one day I have agroup of 4 below lvl 80s in AC next day I have 4 other ppl with 10000+ AP. I run zerk on some characters, but also run a lot of “strange stats” , I have characters with dedicated dungeon weapons (an ele, a warrior and a necro, I’m waiting but will buy an additional set for a guardian as well.
Some strange combos:
cleric necro,
nomad/clerics guardian
sinister necro / ranger / warrior
rabid ranger/mesmer/thief,
zealot warrior/guardian/elementalist
celestial elementalist
others pass If I look through armors,

My 14 lvl 80’s have 30+ armors and sometimes it’s a failure, and I salvage it again, but I always find something new, fresh and interesting… It keeps it alive, just doing the same things over and over shows narrowmindedness in the experience people seek: I sometimes notice it while doing my almost madatory AC and CoF, and I break the chain and go TA and SE, or do a few world bosses, some JP’s or something else. I have helped people new to the game, and introduced and held their hands for a while just to do other things.

IMHO , People want fun, but some have idea’s forced upon them: their idea of fun is not created by themselves but by others forcing “the meta”down others throats, creating stress, toxic environments, making rules for modes of gameplay, because others think they’ll have fun that way, while the only rule should be : “You should be having fun, otherwise you should find something else you do like, either within or outside the game.” the game would die if everybody had to do what I like, Because it’s what I like, and it could have overlap with what you like but it’s not the same, we are not the same, well we’re both human, yes, but there ends the similarity.

IMHO If you pay 60 euro’s and have 12 hours of fun it’s about the price of a cinema ticket, When you play 60 hours about the price of a rented or PayPerView film, and when you played 6000 hours and payed 0.01 euro well… It has been an very good deal.

Vayne.8563:

I think the MMO genre is too new to say what will and won’t work longterm anymore. Years ago, when MMOs weren’t main stream you might have been right.

But I suspect there are enough people now who are achievement point hunters and people who like to play dress up with different alts that could carry a game like this indefinitely.

A lot of people would leave, but in my opinion the numbers left behind would be enough to fund the game.

And because the genre is new and growing and changing, we won’t know if this will work until it’s actually tried.

Duh…what? World Of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King had how many millions of players subbed at one time? Like 10-14 MILLION? And WoW is celebrating it’s 10 year anniversary. This is not to forget it’s roots in Everquest and UO.

MMOs are anything BUT “new”. Every developer in this genre KNOWS what MMO fans are after, but it comes down to how much any given company is going to sink into development time versus whatever they are making from their pricing model.

GW2 will survive long after they stop putting development time into it. Look at WAR. People played WAR, even though it was EXTREMELY flawed for years after it’s release and after Mythic shut the doors on it, people are still trying to support free servers of the game.

People who come here and complain don’t hate the game. They LOVE the game! But they really don’t like the company that manages it, because the company that manages it, acts and reacts like a group of random IT contractors. They know how to do things, but overlook the environment, or the community. Granted, vocal minority isn’t the group you listen to, but numbers is the indicator to it all and after you LOSE those numbers, THEN you start eyeballing the vocal minority for ideas on how to make things better.

At any rate, no point to complain about it. They don’t pay attention anyhow, so the only thing we can do is sit by and watch our friends go play other things OR realize that it is what it is and make the best of it. Your choice.

I love this game. I going to keep playing it for as long as there are people here to game with. I don’t have to “like” ANet to do that.

yolo swaggins.2570:

So it isn’t as simple as, “Don’t like it? Gtfo.” And I know some of you are thinking, “Well you’ve already got your money’s worth…” but then that isn’t for you to decide. It is their money.

Understand this before you write someone off and tell them to go away.

Don’t give their words any weight and they wont get on your nerves.

Use that very same thing against them and completely dismiss their words. It is what I do whenever anyone says anything against me that is unwarranted. There is literally NOTHING that anyone can ever say to ‘offend’ me. It’s what people actively do against me that I have issue with. Mere words only have the power you give them.

So do as I do, dismiss those who say things that annoy you as nothing more than mere pixels on your screen, because that is what they are. Take back the power you gave them over you.

slamfunction.7462:

Vayne.8563:

I think the MMO genre is too new to say what will and won’t work longterm anymore. Years ago, when MMOs weren’t main stream you might have been right.

But I suspect there are enough people now who are achievement point hunters and people who like to play dress up with different alts that could carry a game like this indefinitely.

A lot of people would leave, but in my opinion the numbers left behind would be enough to fund the game.

And because the genre is new and growing and changing, we won’t know if this will work until it’s actually tried.

Duh…what? World Of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King had how many millions of players subbed at one time? Like 10-14 MILLION? And WoW is celebrating it’s 10 year anniversary. This is not to forget it’s roots in Everquest and UO.

MMOs are anything BUT “new”. Every developer in this genre KNOWS what MMO fans are after, but it comes down to how much any given company is going to sink into development time versus whatever they are making from their pricing model.

GW2 will survive long after they stop putting development time into it. Look at WAR. People played WAR, even though it was EXTREMELY flawed for years after it’s release and after Mythic shut the doors on it, people are still trying to support free servers of the game.

People who come here and complain don’t hate the game. They LOVE the game! But they really don’t like the company that manages it, because the company that manages it, acts and reacts like a group of random IT contractors. They know how to do things, but overlook the environment, or the community. Granted, vocal minority isn’t the group you listen to, but numbers is the indicator to it all and after you LOSE those numbers, THEN you start eyeballing the vocal minority for ideas on how to make things better.

At any rate, no point to complain about it. They don’t pay attention anyhow, so the only thing we can do is sit by and watch our friends go play other things OR realize that it is what it is and make the best of it. Your choice.

I love this game. I going to keep playing it for as long as there are people here to game with. I don’t have to “like” ANet to do that.

When I read posts like this, I wonder if you live in the same universe I live in.

WoW is completely 100% irrrelevant to this argument. Time and place. It IS a ten year old MMO and the landscape has changed since it came out. It doesn’t matter if WoW has 60 millon subs. No one has been able to replicate it and there’s no saying WoW could do it if it came out in this environment at this time.

WoW’s success is partly due to their ability to fund advertising and when it was released. The logic that applies to it applies to no new or current game. Thus irrelevant to the situation.

Every game that tries to be like WoW doesn’t go all that far. Certainly not nearly as far as WoW. WoW succeed through inertia. That’s all.

The rest of the industry which is what we’re talking about is evolving. The stuff that made WOW popular in its day doesn’t work anymore for any other product but WoW.

Rats! I should have gotten a refund on my second account when I had the chance.

Vayne.8563:

When I read posts like this, I wonder if you live in the same universe I live in.

WoW is completely 100% irrrelevant to this argument. Time and place. It IS a ten year old MMO and the landscape has changed since it came out. It doesn’t matter if WoW has 60 millon subs. No one has been able to replicate it and there’s no saying WoW could do it if it came out in this environment at this time.

WoW’s success is partly due to their ability to fund advertising and when it was released. The logic that applies to it applies to no new or current game. Thus irrelevant to the situation.

Every game that tries to be like WoW doesn’t go all that far. Certainly not nearly as far as WoW. WoW succeed through inertia. That’s all.

The rest of the industry which is what we’re talking about is evolving. The stuff that made WOW popular in its day doesn’t work anymore for any other product but WoW.

he has a point. MMOs are pretty much as old as internet itself. Starting out with text MUDs, moving on to MMOs with visual representation in late 90s. The genre even lived long enough to stagnate and only started to change rapidly when we entered 2010s.

There are things that I hate about Guild Wars 2. Played since the day it opened up, have the collectors edition, but it managed to leave a bad enough taste in my mouth for me to leave for 8 months. Personal things that I found to be problems in the game:

- heavy monetization of it when the game was released in China. Suddenly you didn’t gain gold with the current attractions, you lost it (namely I remember the change at the time was Queen’s Jubilee being fired up for the 2nd time and this time it required donations for it to spawn bosses and unless you beat it for gold it didn’t drop much), the game limited you in how much of a current activity you could do (namely in dungeons and fractals, where after you claimed the chest on a character that was it. Same for world bosses. You used to be able to go and kill the fire elemental on all of your characters and claim the reward, then it became once per account). On top of that, if you miss some story from Season 2 of the Living Story you have to buy it. I don’t understand why would you sell lore? Selling the ability to do achievements? Fair enough. But lore? Really?

- bad control of the economy. They lovered how much money a new player can make, but did nothing to control those controling the market with thousands of gold already in their pocket. On top of that due to rarity of some things, chances are you will never see a legendary in your life, as right now pre-cursors and legendaries are continuously increasing in price. I built mine when legendaries could be sold for around 1000 gold. My pre-cursor cost me 300. Now I see that legendaries are being sold for close to 4000. Solutions have been suggested (such as allowing us to craft a pre-cursor), but they have not been done.

- the lack of permanent content. I’m overjoyed to find two new zones. When I left the only things that the game got in a two year period was some fractals and a karka zone.

Now why am I here then? Because Guild Wars 2 is unique in a very casual way. You can choose how invested you will be in the game and still not miss out on any of the activities. You can choose to grind for ascended gear and spend a year making a legendary, but what advantage will you have over a casual player in exotics? Sure you will be able to climb up higher in fractals, but the other player will still be able to see fractals in level 1 to 10. I like the pointlessness of everything that you can go for in this game. It allows me to choose to not over commit.

Vayne.8563:

When I read posts like this, I wonder if you live in the same universe I live in.

WoW is completely 100% irrrelevant to this argument. Time and place. It IS a ten year old MMO and the landscape has changed since it came out. It doesn’t matter if WoW has 60 millon subs. No one has been able to replicate it and there’s no saying WoW could do it if it came out in this environment at this time.

WoW’s success is partly due to their ability to fund advertising and when it was released. The logic that applies to it applies to no new or current game. Thus irrelevant to the situation.

Every game that tries to be like WoW doesn’t go all that far. Certainly not nearly as far as WoW. WoW succeed through inertia. That’s all.

The rest of the industry which is what we’re talking about is evolving. The stuff that made WOW popular in its day doesn’t work anymore for any other product but WoW.

QFT.

even if i could get a refund right now, i would still not do it.
it would feel like i wasted my time only to get a mere small percentage of the money back, just doesn’t feel right to me.
as they say, time is money and the time i spend on this game is far beyond that what i payed for (and i have the CE).
they say that a game isn’t a job but something for fun, if i could get a refund and look at the work i did on this game it would cost them about the same as 2X the yearly income i get, not something Anet would agree with.

but anyway, i think it’s a bad habbit of white knights, pushing away anyone who doesn’t like something with a silly argument like “don’t like it, don’t play it”.
if i don’t like it i have every single right to say i don’t like something, i payed €150,- on this game plus all the gems i bought, that qualifies me more then enough to complain about something i don’t like.

with this, when something uses such a defense, simply say “if you have nothing useful to ad, don’t join the argument”.
no use arguing when all they want to say “but i don’t want it to change, everyone who doesn’t have to kitten”, that’s the kind of players i just can’t respect at all.
everyone has payed to play this game and so, everyone has every single right to say what they wand about the game.
the forum is there to talk about issues you might not like, join forces with other players to come up with a solution.
it’s not, however, made to kick someone when (s)he is down.

sorudo.9054:

even if i could get a refund right now, i would still not do it.
it would feel like i wasted my time only to get a mere small percentage of the money back, just doesn’t feel right to me.
as they say, time is money and the time i spend on this game is far beyond that what i payed for (and i have the CE).
they say that a game isn’t a job but something for fun, if i could get a refund and look at the work i did on this game it would cost them about the same as 2X the yearly income i get, not something Anet would agree with.

but anyway, i think it’s a bad habbit of white knights, pushing away anyone who doesn’t like something with a silly argument like “don’t like it, don’t play it”.
if i don’t like it i have every single right to say i don’t like something, i payed €150,- on this game plus all the gems i bought, that qualifies me more then enough to complain about something i don’t like.

with this, when something uses such a defense, simply say “if you have nothing useful to ad, don’t join the argument”.
no use arguing when all they want to say “but i don’t want it to change, everyone who doesn’t have to kitten”, that’s the kind of players i just can’t respect at all.
everyone has payed to play this game and so, everyone has every single right to say what they wand about the game.
the forum is there to talk about issues you might not like, join forces with other players to come up with a solution.
it’s not, however, made to kick someone when (s)he is down.

Countering “Don’t like it? Gtfo” with “Don’t have anything useful to add? Gtfo” sounds like a really good idea! I like it.

Vayne.8563:

slamfunction.7462:

Vayne.8563:

I think the MMO genre is too new to say what will and won’t work longterm anymore. Years ago, when MMOs weren’t main stream you might have been right.

But I suspect there are enough people now who are achievement point hunters and people who like to play dress up with different alts that could carry a game like this indefinitely.

A lot of people would leave, but in my opinion the numbers left behind would be enough to fund the game.

And because the genre is new and growing and changing, we won’t know if this will work until it’s actually tried.

Duh…what? World Of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King had how many millions of players subbed at one time? Like 10-14 MILLION? And WoW is celebrating it’s 10 year anniversary. This is not to forget it’s roots in Everquest and UO.

MMOs are anything BUT “new”. Every developer in this genre KNOWS what MMO fans are after, but it comes down to how much any given company is going to sink into development time versus whatever they are making from their pricing model.

GW2 will survive long after they stop putting development time into it. Look at WAR. People played WAR, even though it was EXTREMELY flawed for years after it’s release and after Mythic shut the doors on it, people are still trying to support free servers of the game.

People who come here and complain don’t hate the game. They LOVE the game! But they really don’t like the company that manages it, because the company that manages it, acts and reacts like a group of random IT contractors. They know how to do things, but overlook the environment, or the community. Granted, vocal minority isn’t the group you listen to, but numbers is the indicator to it all and after you LOSE those numbers, THEN you start eyeballing the vocal minority for ideas on how to make things better.

At any rate, no point to complain about it. They don’t pay attention anyhow, so the only thing we can do is sit by and watch our friends go play other things OR realize that it is what it is and make the best of it. Your choice.

I love this game. I going to keep playing it for as long as there are people here to game with. I don’t have to “like” ANet to do that.

When I read posts like this, I wonder if you live in the same universe I live in.

WoW is completely 100% irrrelevant to this argument. Time and place. It IS a ten year old MMO and the landscape has changed since it came out. It doesn’t matter if WoW has 60 millon subs. No one has been able to replicate it and there’s no saying WoW could do it if it came out in this environment at this time.

WoW’s success is partly due to their ability to fund advertising and when it was released. The logic that applies to it applies to no new or current game. Thus irrelevant to the situation.

Every game that tries to be like WoW doesn’t go all that far. Certainly not nearly as far as WoW. WoW succeed through inertia. That’s all.

The rest of the industry which is what we’re talking about is evolving. The stuff that made WOW popular in its day doesn’t work anymore for any other product but WoW.

Ditto, on your first sentence.

I’m retorting the comment,

I think the MMO genre is too new to say what will and won’t work longterm anymore. Years ago, when MMOs weren’t main stream you might have been right.

Its not new. You’re wrong. You made an incorrect statement with this. MMOs HAVE been around for long enough now for newer developers to say what will and will not work now. Unfortunately, they tend to do a sloppy job at implmenting it.

When you log into GW2, you can TELL that the initial development on the game was done with ALOT of love, caring, and attention to detail. A team of people REALLY went all out to pour their heart and soul into this game. You can tell by the zones, the stories, the artworks, and those little hidden Easter eggs here and there.

Can you honestly tell me that that same level of love and commitment is in the game with all the new features and LS additions?

My point of view on the answer to that is no one can say 100% either way, and thus why we have these little debates. Again, the game is great. The company running it currently, not so much.

Its better to use this phrase , at those extreme-minority ppl that come on the forums to have fun .

When those ppl dont understand is their tiny mind , that different games have different mechanics and that difference attracts different crowd (and they come back to play that different mechanic again) , they deserved to be told this phrase.

When they havent understand the mechanics that are being used in their beloved game and try to aply them here , then again they must told this phrase .

If their tiny mind could understand , that you can play GW2 + other games in the same time , then I shouldnt be forced to tell this phrase .

When other 10 years old games , simply copy-paste GW2 mechanics and design > then GW2 must copy itself back to envolve into Gw2version2 ?

Vayne.8563:

I wouldn’t join a golf club because I don’t like golf. And I wouldn’t play golf.

What if you enjoyed chess, and you paid $60 for a lifetime membership to a chess club… and then 4-5 months after you joined, they changed it to a golf club?

Would you still not mind the fact that you paid $60 for a lifetime membership simply because you got 4-5 month’s worth of chess-playing before they switched to something you don’t enjoy?

ETA: As to the OP, I try to ignore the people with the “don’t like it, don’t play it” comments, because I know that most of the time their attitude will change dramatically as soon as there is a game change that they don’t like.

minbariguy.7504:

Vayne.8563:

I wouldn’t join a golf club because I don’t like golf. And I wouldn’t play golf.

What if you enjoyed chess, and you paid $60 for a lifetime membership to a chess club… and then 4-5 months after you joined, they changed it to a golf club?

Would you still not mind the fact that you paid $60 for a lifetime membership simply because you got 4-5 month’s worth of chess-playing before they switched to something you don’t enjoy?

This analogy might be more relevant had they changed Guild Wars 2 into, say, a racing game or a football game.

As it is, using hyperbole to attempt to prove a point weakens it, not strengthens it. The game is not a completely different thing than it started out as, like the club in your analogy.

Mirta.5029:

On top of that, if you miss some story from Season 2 of the Living Story you have to buy it. I don’t understand why would you sell lore? Selling the ability to do achievements? Fair enough. But lore? Really?

How many players demanded that the LW story not be temporary content? In order to accommodate that wish, Anet had to redesign the way they presented the LW story. This cost them development resources. Still, they give it away for free. All you have to do is log in once during the cycle. I don’t think that’s unfair.

IndigoSundown.5419:

How many players demanded that the LW story not be temporary content? In order to accommodate that wish, Anet had to redesign the way they presented the LW story. This cost them development resources. Still, they give it away for free. All you have to do is log in once during the cycle. I don’t think that’s unfair.

It’s a buy to play game. Tera is doing completely free expansions. And to not delete content doesn’t exactly cost you money. Developing it does. So why exactly was it efficient to develop then delete Season 1 for free, but it’s not okay to give free lore to people that are joining the game right now?

I agree but to a dagree. If your talking about the game as a whole, well for one unless you get the game at release you should have gotten it on sale. Who plays full price on PC anymore? Esp for a game 2+ years old.

But I digress.

Anyways if you qualm is with GW2 as a whole it sucks but atleast you got 4 months out of it, at the very least that’s not a bad value and you can put if down at any time.

If it’s certain parts to the game that you make arguments about and people use that as a default response, it’s plain stupid. All it does is hinder development of a game which was INTENDED to be improved upon over time.

For example: “jumping puzzles don’t give good rewards” <- “than don’t play it?” Has nothing to do with the fact it’s still an enjoyable activity but could still use adjusents to reward tables.

People are to steadfast to derail topics either because of flawed perceptions of the person or topic, or are just trolling. Occasionally depending on the situation it’s because a select few people have benefited greatly and have a bias or are able to exploit existing content, and as such are not willing to entertain the concept of change.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

…
IMHO If you pay 60 euro’s and have 12 hours of fun it’s about the price of a cinema ticket, When you play 60 hours about the price of a rented or PayPerView film, and when you played 6000 hours and payed 0.01 euro well… It has been an very good deal.

Oh god…. I was trying to get through the thread when I struck that paragraph.
How can you compare the two? And I get that the lower the value of your hours/dollar metric means it’s in some form better/getting your moneys worth, but what does that mean? Like if you get 12 hours out of a game, you should go “Yes! It’s totally worth it because I could have gone and watched a movie but instead played 12 hours of this game.”

So I’m going to impose an arbitrary metric as well, let’s say a bubble gum costs $1, and lets say a sneakers bar costs $3. Now you typically eat the sneakers bar in 3 minutes, so that’s going at a rate of $1/min. So if you chew the bubble gum for at least 1 minute, it will be on par with the sneakers bar, because it would be at the rate of $1/min. Now kitten gets crazy if you chew the bubble gum for 10 minutes – the rate becomes $0.1/min . Now that bubble gum has been an amazing deal compared to the sneakers bar, since you were able to chew on it for 10 minutes for the cost of $1 ($0.1/min) while the sneakers bar was $3 for 3 minutes ($1/min).
^ All I can think that is, is a way to justify your spendings when you’re feeling guilty of them.

Thats why i play gw2 every 2 weeks do the living story and log off.
The devs just don’t care anymore. No new dungeons no new pvp modes etc.
But honestly im not complaining i got my money worth.
Still there are more intersting games that you are not allowed to talk about here.

yolo swaggins.2570:

So it isn’t as simple as, “Don’t like it? Gtfo.” And I know some of you are thinking, “Well you’ve already got your money’s worth…” but then that isn’t for you to decide. It is their money.

Understand this before you write someone off and tell them to go away.

No, objectively speaking you have your money’s worth. You exchanged $60 (or whatever) for the content that existed in the game at launch, and you have that, and will always have that. Everything else is bonus.

And maybe you’re just not at the point in your life where you understand this, but free time is more precious than anything, and if you’re spending it on something you don’t like, then yeah, you do need to gtfo. Stop whining about what you think you deserve, what you think will make you like this game, and go do something you do like. It’s just a game, for Christ’s sake. One day you’ll die, and you probably won’t be thinking “gee I sure wish I had kept playing GW2.”

All these arguments come down to is perspective. Some people look at the game as “what can this do for me?” and those people are usually disappointed. I prefer to approach games with the mindset of “how can I best enjoy this non-work activity?” and so, I don’t take issue with many things in the game, because I know if I didn’t like it, I wouldn’t be doing it at all.

I think perhaps there is a misunderstanding of the phrase. To me, it doesn’t mean “if you don’t like this one thing, quit the game,” but rather, “if you genuinely didn’t like this, why would you be doing it?”

Andred.1087:

yolo swaggins.2570:

So it isn’t as simple as, “Don’t like it? Gtfo.” And I know some of you are thinking, “Well you’ve already got your money’s worth…” but then that isn’t for you to decide. It is their money.

Understand this before you write someone off and tell them to go away.

No, objectively speaking you have your money’s worth. You exchanged $60 (or whatever) for the content that existed in the game at launch, and you have that, and will always have that. Everything else is bonus..

By your definition of money’s wrth we do not currently have it because some of what existed at launch has been removed. Everything that has been added is extra, as you say, which means that the base purchase has been lessened post launch.

Andred.1087:

No, objectively speaking you have your money’s worth. You exchanged $60 (or whatever) for the content that existed in the game at launch, and you have that, and will always have that. Everything else is bonus.

And maybe you’re just not at the point in your life where you understand this, but free time is more precious than anything, and if you’re spending it on something you don’t like, then yeah, you do need to gtfo. Stop whining about what you think you deserve, what you think will make you like this game, and go do something you do like. It’s just a game, for Christ’s sake. One day you’ll die, and you probably won’t be thinking “gee I sure wish I had kept playing GW2.”

All these arguments come down to is perspective. Some people look at the game as “what can this do for me?” and those people are usually disappointed. I prefer to approach games with the mindset of “how can I best enjoy this non-work activity?” and so, I don’t take issue with many things in the game, because I know if I didn’t like it, I wouldn’t be doing it at all.

I think perhaps there is a misunderstanding of the phrase. To me, it doesn’t mean “if you don’t like this one thing, quit the game,” but rather, “if you genuinely didn’t like this, why would you be doing it?”

Let me ask you this for the sake of argument:

Are you (and everyone else in the same boat as you) willing to pay back the $60 I (and everyone in the same boat as me) paid to play this game?

Because if the answer is no, then you need to deal with it.

It isn’t your call whether I got my money’s worth because it is money I earned. And because I used my money that I earned to pay towards this game, I believe I should at least be able to state my opinion on this game when I please.

So until you pay me $60, I kindly ask you to not tell me how to go about playing this game.

NOTE: And no I am not asking you to do that. I won’t accept it.

I don’t see the point of that thread.
From what I see, is that some people after 3 months get bored and dont’ see any new content to participate in.
Like really?
Most of those people are simply farming like mad to catch up to end game players, while after they realize there is nothing to farm and all you need is to chill out and find yourself a spot to have fun in.
People burn out of this game, just like from many other games.

So it isn’t as simple as, “Don’t like it? Gtfo.” And I know some of you are thinking, “Well you’ve already got your money’s worth…” but then that isn’t for you to decide. It is their money.

Yes it is simple as that.
You paid for it, you had fun for the time you played.
You got bored and want to quit – go ahead, no one stops you.
If you quit, you can always come back.

It’s a normal rotation of players in MMOs nowadays – not many can stick to one game for long.

Unless, some people look for sentimental shoulder to cry on.

Tao.5096:

I don’t see the point of that thread.

The fact that you don’t see (or are unwilling to accept) the “point” of this thread does not mean that the point does not exist.

Just throwing this out there.

I would be far more willing to accept people’s arguments on these forums if the large majority of them didn’t come off like over-entitled10-year olds having a fit, or condescending know-it-alls who think they know how to run an MMO better then the company that’s doing it, and repeatedly dismiss anything and everything that other people might say that doesn’t conform to their opinion.
There are precious few real conversations on these forums, and far too many people simply yelling into echo chambers.

And that can fully apply to both ‘negative nancy’s and ‘white knights’…

The biggest difference is, which side usually starts all the angry, rage-filled negativity that turns things into a toxic cesspit?
You can argue that it’s the people that happen to like the game that causes it by not agreeing with those who don’t, but I have yet to see very many threads that basically start out saying…
‘I think this is great! And if you don’t agree with me, you suck…’
No, it’s usually the other extreme… The ‘Anti-GW2’ crowd flinging hyperbole and thinly veiled insults and starting drama…
The ‘pro-GW2’ crowd are far more reactionary with such things, finally having enough mud and bile slung at them and the game they happen to like before slinging it back.

Tao.5096:

I don’t see the point of that thread.
From what I see, is that some people after 3 months get bored and dont’ see any new content to participate in.
Like really?
Most of those people are simply farming like mad to catch up to end game players, while after they realize there is nothing to farm and all you need is to chill out and find yourself a spot to have fun in.
People burn out of this game, just like from many other games.

So it isn’t as simple as, “Don’t like it? Gtfo.” And I know some of you are thinking, “Well you’ve already got your money’s worth…” but then that isn’t for you to decide. It is their money.

Yes it is simple as that.
You paid for it, you had fun for the time you played.
You got bored and want to quit – go ahead, no one stops you.
If you quit, you can always come back.

It’s a normal rotation of players in MMOs nowadays – not many can stick to one game for long.

Unless, some people look for sentimental shoulder to cry on.

Actually it isn’t. And if you read the whole OP you’de see that I wrote “reoccurring issues” instead of “bored” or “lack of new content”. People complain about far more than lack of new content although lack of new content is a major one.

Filaha.1678:

The game is not a completely different thing than it started out as, like the club in your analogy.

I’m not saying that it is. However, how different a game is from it’s point of origin to it’s current state is a matter of opinion. And alas, you do not get to decide for someone else if it is different enough to warrant their state of unhappiness. Acting as though you have the right to make that determination on someone else’s behalf only weakens your argument.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Vayne.8563:

It was all over the forums at the time when Anet released ascended gear. The change in direction was something I guess they felt that warranted a refund for some people. There are people who did get refunds after that, including a couple who were in my guild at that time, who saw it as a betrayal.

I can only imagine how acidic the submissions might have been. :I

They were remarkably civil, mostly; “no, I’d just like my money back please”. The people who stayed to continue being salty about Ascended gear ruining their game and “I quit back in November 2012” type lines which crop up even now from time to time . . . weren’t after refunds.

The real acidity came and returned every time the Ascended Gear got rolled out another phase. And it still wasn’t as bad as things around “naked Kasmeer” or “Scarlet, Destroyer Of Lore” became.

Seriously. The forum back then was considerably more civil with disagreements.

But on topic?

I’m going to have to second what someone says – it’s better to ignore it because the simply-bold comment is more about getting a rise out of you or just getting you to go away. There’s an element to it which you should consider, naturally: “If you don’t like it and think it’s crap, go away and let us enjoy our crap, please?” Put like that, really what they’re saying is “you’re probably right about how bad this is, but I enjoy it, stop trying to make me feel bad over my fun”.

Of course, then there’s the second kind of reply with the same tone (“if you don’t like it, don’t do it”) but tending to be less dismissive and more telling you it’s okay to not do things you don’t want to do. Which is the type usually cropping up in the recent threads about the new Daily system. “Well if you don’t like PvP or WvW, don’t play it.” is entirely different than “well go back to some other game” – it’s more legitimate a reply.

Either way, best response is to ignore it and just play or not play as you choose. And if you quit, do it quietly and without drama, and come back in a few months. Maybe you just needed a break.

Mirta.5029:

IndigoSundown.5419:

How many players demanded that the LW story not be temporary content? In order to accommodate that wish, Anet had to redesign the way they presented the LW story. This cost them development resources. Still, they give it away for free. All you have to do is log in once during the cycle. I don’t think that’s unfair.

It’s a buy to play game. Tera is doing completely free expansions. And to not delete content doesn’t exactly cost you money. Developing it does. So why exactly was it efficient to develop then delete Season 1 for free, but it’s not okay to give free lore to people that are joining the game right now?

So you think story should be free. Why? Because Tera does it that way? WoW doesn’t do it that way, nor TESO, nor any number of other MMO’s. TSW was B2P at one point, and charged for story packs. There aren’t that many B2P games out there to compare to.

I tried Tera back when it cost. It was a bad game for me. The only MMO I’ve played where quests felt staler was WHO. My guess is you’re either paying for the content indirectly, or getting a free ride on whales buying whatever the heck the store has. You can be sure of one thing, they are charging for something. The only questions are, “What?” and, “What can’t you do in game unless you buy it?”

The biggest problem with “getting your money’s worth” is the fact that, while it is subjective, it is irrelevant to what you’re buying. When you paid the $60 you paid for the content that is in the game when you bought the game. Same as if you were buying a console game, when you buy a cod game you get the game.

I don’t see why there’s this separation of mmos where people treat them as if they are outside of the whole gaming landscape instead of what they really are, a subgenre. Just like fps, just like platformers.

While you may not like what you bought for any variety of reasons, it does not make you entitled to anything. Players can voice their opinions and hope things can change, but only to a certain degree and about certain things. If what you don’t like about the game are things the game and the developers are centered on(ls as an example) it’s time to leave the game.

The fact you spent whatever amount on a game doesn’t mean anything in relation to how much enjoyment you’ll get from it. And no matter how much you try to justify the purchase by playing, the fact is you bought the game and you’re never going to get it back.

The only other analogy i can think of in my sleep deprive state is food. Not every one likes the same food, some people will get diarrhea from eating something. Some people will absolutely love the food they bought and others will want to throw up. But no matter how much you like or dislike the food the fact remains that you got what you ordered.

Wether or not you like how it tasted is completely and utterly irrelevant.

I can’t believe they give refunds at all…

If you don’t like it, tough kitten! Buyer beware.

That said there is a tremendous amount to like in this game, if you don’t like any of it there is something wrong with you…

Something else I hate: the idea that since we’re not developers we don’t know anything about games and should just shut up.

Well, I’m not a chef but I can tell you if something tastes good or bad.

MMOs to a degree rely on the “sunken cost fallacy” where the notion that you’ve already spent 100s of hours and/or dollars playing so you will be less likely to just chuck it and move on already. That’s assuming you hadn’t found a community within the MMO that you click with, aka guilds.

Now since this game’s only dollar cost, assuming you didn’t buy gems in any large quantity, is the initial box cost which makes is no different than a console game with 10-20 hours of content. I’m sure if you all do a /age and see the number of hours you have played so far, it would likely be well over 10x that figure. So on a dollar per hour metric it’s fair to say you got your money’s worth and then some.

And that’s where the notion of “if you don’t like it, don’t play it” comes from. If you bought a PC or console game for $30-60 and become dissatisfied with it, you stop playing it and move on to the next. For those players who like the game, these players are Debby Downers. They are the coworker who complains about their job every … single … day and you can’t avoid them.

The biggest source of complaints I’ve seen here are from two groups. Original Guild Wars players who are disillusioned because the game is so … streamlined and simplified from Guild Wars. They presumed 6-12 month expansion cycles, a world incorporating the three lands of the original. More professions and certainly loads more traits.

WoW/WoW clone players who can’t wrap themselves around a game that isn’t trinity based and in PvE is designed to be exceptionally co-op friendly. No factions, no dueling, no mounts for elitism, no competing for resources, tagging critters, loot ninjaing, etc. I imagine it’s like going from the rugby pitch to a day care center. On top of that the freedom to simply roam about and play all willy-nilly, no organized raids, etc., it’s anarchy. If you are a leader, nobody will listen to you and if you need to be lead, you’re rudderless since the game won’t even eject you out of the starter map.

Now I’m a player who didn’t come from either group. I never played GW because I was told that the game devolves into a PvP only game and that’s the driving force behind the PvE and I find PvP a bastion of players needing constant Ego boosts. And the MMO I had been playing actually came out before WoW so I’m wasn’t one of the millions of gamers trained to think all MMOs should play JUST LIKE WoW.

To me I find the co-op nature of the PvE fun. The lack of competition and the guarantee reward by even helping a little is more enjoyable than fighting over the last critter you need to complete your “quest”. I find the lack of quest rails refreshing and the freedom to roam fun.

Now the big draw for me, and likely those in those two dissatisfied groups, is the post purchase F2P aspect of the game. Compared to other F2P games I’ve played, the lack of any real paywalls allows me to enjoy playing it while still allowing me not to feel financially bound to play. And I think those who aren’t enjoying themselves look around and see that for an essentially “F2P” MMO, this is probably the best of the bunch, but what they really want is either a GW or WoW clone that they can play for free.

And until they get it, we will be stuck with these habitual complainers, just like that guy from work.

Do you also say this to the people who enjoyed the game but then ArenaNet changed something to then make it un-fun for them? Before answering, remember that it can happen to you.

Souto.2716:

The biggest problem with “getting your money’s worth” is the fact that, while it is subjective, it is irrelevant to what you’re buying. When you paid the $60 you paid for the content that is in the game when you bought the game. Same as if you were buying a console game, when you buy a cod game you get the game.

I don’t see why there’s this separation of mmos where people treat them as if they are outside of the whole gaming landscape instead of what they really are, a subgenre. Just like fps, just like platformers.

See, they’re different than the other genres . . . and they’re not the only genre to want – nay, almost demand! – constant play over time. Games of another type such as Animal Crossing, which track time based on real-time clocks, and only allow so much to be done in a day . . . necessitating you come back another day. Most other games don’t care if you’re playing them every day, or what time of day, or anything like that.

So, yes, they are treated like other games because of how they are built. They’re built to be a persistent and continuous game which is available as close to 24/7 as they can feasibly get. That’s the draw to them. And it’s not a new concept – tabletop games had stuff like this before computer gaming got far enough to reach SVGA video

And so there’s an innate . . . sort of difference. You’re buying a game, but it’s a lot more like . . . purchasing a membership to an organization. You can show up for a few meetings, have fun, and never show up again and it’s no different and amount than the people who never miss a meeting, are the ones keeping the club running socially (not to be confused with the owners/organizers) . . . the only thing different is how deep you want to go.

It’s okay if you have a point where you go “okay, I’m done, played enough” with an MMO. As much as there might be confusion about how you could “play enough” . . . I posit the question: if you were asked to play your favorite board game every day or so . . . how long before you’d ask to play something else?

Zanshin.5379:

Something else I hate: the idea that since we’re not developers we don’t know anything about games and should just shut up.

Well, I’m not a chef but I can tell you if something tastes good or bad.

Sure. That’s a valid point. However, the “you’re not a developer” response is more inclusive than that. It covers the following:

- “You are talking about changing systems in the game without thinking about how it affects other systems.” Such as ‘just make cloth drop more’, or ‘this event should always give you an exotic drop’, or ‘moar gold drop plz’. Changing one thing usually has effects rippling outwards, and needs to be looked at carefully. Case in point? The change to Traits.

- “You don’t see the same data they do.” Usually about the “nobody likes/does this” type of things. There are people who do, and you don’t know about them. Case in point? I thought nobody really gave a skritt’s behind about town clothing due to how it functioned . . . boy was I wrong . . .

- “There are other reasons why this was done this way.” Usually one of three reasons it was. First up, because the engine or the use of the engine necessitates it be done one way rather than another. One way works, the other does not, which is why it’s done the way it is (and fixing it requires an entire overhaul for which there may be no ETA on when it’d be done – see “Ranger Pet AI”). Secondly, it may be an issue of how to prevent two unrelated systems from colliding in a bad way – such as two event chains which are in the same area and wind up interfering with each other and locking the chains completely. (I think this in theory could be awesome to witness, but the frustration to other players might be a bit much.) Lastly, it could be because the idea they were going to put into action at that one spot just didn’t work in test play, or didn’t “feel” right. (A story of back in an alpha build when they had no character levels, and it didn’t “feel” right to people so they retooled it.)

I see this attitude all the time, and not just in this game. Some people just can’t handle the idea of their favourite MMO suffering points of criticism. Why do we have to think GW2 is perfect, in order to enjoy it? If you really care about this game and it maintaining a standard of quality, you should be first in line to point out areas where it’s slipping up.

For example, I haven’t really been able to get into the direction open-world PvE content has taken this season. Dry Top is a cool zone, but I can’t really dig how it’s all set up around loading my bags with tons of junk, and a perpetual cycle of event-farming. And Silverwastes is about the same, from what I can figure. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have some fun while I’m there, or that stopped enjoying the game, or that I don’t have hope that it will get better.

Behellagh.1468:

MMOs to a degree rely on the “sunken cost fallacy” where the notion that you’ve already spent 100s of hours and/or dollars playing so you will be less likely to just chuck it and move on already. That’s assuming you hadn’t found a community within the MMO that you click with, aka guilds.

Now since this game’s only dollar cost, assuming you didn’t buy gems in any large quantity, is the initial box cost which makes is no different than a console game with 10-20 hours of content. I’m sure if you all do a /age and see the number of hours you have played so far, it would likely be well over 10x that figure. So on a dollar per hour metric it’s fair to say you got your money’s worth and then some.

And that’s where the notion of “if you don’t like it, don’t play it” comes from. If you bought a PC or console game for $30-60 and become dissatisfied with it, you stop playing it and move on to the next. For those players who like the game, these players are Debby Downers. They are the coworker who complains about their job every … single … day and you can’t avoid them.

The biggest source of complaints I’ve seen here are from two groups. Original Guild Wars players who are disillusioned because the game is so … streamlined and simplified from Guild Wars. They presumed 6-12 month expansion cycles, a world incorporating the three lands of the original. More professions and certainly loads more traits.

WoW/WoW clone players who can’t wrap themselves around a game that isn’t trinity based and in PvE is designed to be exceptionally co-op friendly. No factions, no dueling, no mounts for elitism, no competing for resources, tagging critters, loot ninjaing, etc. I imagine it’s like going from the rugby pitch to a day care center. On top of that the freedom to simply roam about and play all willy-nilly, no organized raids, etc., it’s anarchy. If you are a leader, nobody will listen to you and if you need to be lead, you’re rudderless since the game won’t even eject you out of the starter map.

Now I’m a player who didn’t come from either group. I never played GW because I was told that the game devolves into a PvP only game and that’s the driving force behind the PvE and I find PvP a bastion of players needing constant Ego boosts. And the MMO I had been playing actually came out before WoW so I’m wasn’t one of the millions of gamers trained to think all MMOs should play JUST LIKE WoW.

To me I find the co-op nature of the PvE fun. The lack of competition and the guarantee reward by even helping a little is more enjoyable than fighting over the last critter you need to complete your “quest”. I find the lack of quest rails refreshing and the freedom to roam fun.

Now the big draw for me, and likely those in those two dissatisfied groups, is the post purchase F2P aspect of the game. Compared to other F2P games I’ve played, the lack of any real paywalls allows me to enjoy playing it while still allowing me not to feel financially bound to play. And I think those who aren’t enjoying themselves look around and see that for an essentially “F2P” MMO, this is probably the best of the bunch, but what they really want is either a GW or WoW clone that they can play for free.

And until they get it, we will be stuck with these habitual complainers, just like that guy from work.

Cogent analysis. There are certainly more demographics than those two. However, expectations have a way of influencing perception, and those two groups seem the most prone to making comparisons.

IndigoSundown.5419:

So you think story should be free. Why? Because Tera does it that way? WoW doesn’t do it that way, nor TESO, nor any number of other MMO’s. TSW was B2P at one point, and charged for story packs. There aren’t that many B2P games out there to compare to.

I tried Tera back when it cost. It was a bad game for me. The only MMO I’ve played where quests felt staler was WHO. My guess is you’re either paying for the content indirectly, or getting a free ride on whales buying whatever the heck the store has. You can be sure of one thing, they are charging for something. The only questions are, “What?” and, “What can’t you do in game unless you buy it?”

Tera is a really good MMO with an in-depth story, TESO has F2P rumours all around because they removed a lot of subscription options and WoW is the only game that can successfully get away with it.

Majority of F2P and B2P games charge for skins and vanity items. That’s completely fine. However how is it fine to charge for the lore of the game when the person has already given you 80£ for their game to begin with?

Mirta.5029:

However how is it fine to charge for the lore of the game when the person has already given you 80£ for their game to begin with?

The person in question bought what the game included at launch. Developers add more content over time at significant cost to the company. How is it fine to charge for a product that one spends enormous amounts of money to produce ? Let me ask a counter question, if you spent a significant amount of money creating something to. Ring to market would it be appropriate for you to charge for access to it?