Guild Wars 2

Hi all,

Been thinking about this for the past couple of days so thought I’d post and make my thoughts available for public scrutiny.

Please feel free to correct anything I write :-)

So gold sinks are in the game to stop things getting to expensive for people to buy on TP (straightforward enough) less money in the economy, the less money to spend so naturally prices would e kept in check with this system.

However, I would like to notify you all that this system is flawed. The explanation of a gold sink in itself is economically sound, it allows for no retracting or expanding of the money supply. (Jobs a good un).

The system becomes flawed or better still became flawed, the moment that anet began retracting the amount of items in game ( due to lowered drop rate etc ).

This simple act means that because items are more scarce, they are in more demand and as we all know, this aids the increased price of goods ( silk for example ).

Goods need to be as plentiful as the money in the economy or gold sinks fail. You can’t have more goods than money as it means very very cheap goods and less goods than money means prices rise.

In an ideal world, both goods and money should be plentiful as to benefit ALL consumers. Not just the creator of the money (our beloved Anet).

I just wanted to share this all with you. Please feel free to rip it to shreds, but ultimately ( unlike the gold sinks) my post is not flawed ;-)

Inflation is measured across the entire economy over time and not just with specific items.

Don’t forget that changes have also been made to the gold sinks, and to the amount of gold players receive in rewards. Lowering the supply of certain goods will certainly introduce some amount of perceived inflation, but there are ways to mitigate this that I think you have failed to consider.

This game’s an economist’s almost-personal playground when it comes to all things economy. I presume John Smith has fun with it, because if he doesn’t, quite possibly nobody really does.

first of all if your post is true, lets for a second (to let you answer the question) postulate that it is what is your solution?

now to my limited crique (limited based on in game experience and macro-economic knowledge) the price is also limited to demand and the entire player base will be unable to use certain items

(yes there are exceptions to this where every player might want an item) thinking amulets rings accessories etc

but with armor and weapons say a mace not every character can use those so based on that there will be players who create 0 demand for that item which at some point will make that the controlling factor rather than the supply

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open, but I’ll be a little gentler.

If item rarity is too low, everyone has enough to sate their needs, so they’re less inclined to go to the market. It leads to a high supply, low demand situation. If they’re incredibly common, they get turned into vendors for currency, which adds even more currency to the economy.

The biggest and most effective gold sink in the game is the trading post. As something John Smith pointed out elsewhere, rising values on trading post goods makes it an even more effective gold sink. Big spenders shuck out 15% on a sale of big-ticket items, removing it from the economy.

Elevated prices on trade goods not only keep them from getting vendored, but other players pay the trade value, keeping the wealth in circulation, rather than stored.

So, while the silk example is a particularly cantankerous one, it’s more or less struck a decent balance, if a bit high for most tastes. And it’s an example of where the trading post sits as a gold sink.

Thermogoldsinkalytic whatever the hell it is, is the most horrible gold sink ever.

A guild mate of mine has a very plausible theory in which he believes that Anet is something changing the market by choice with content they have been adding to the game.

Remember silk at 3.2 silver a piece? Remember powerfull blood at 70s? the “Big Dig” farm with silverwastes comes along and within days silk crashed to 90 copper and T6’s all over crashed.

Of course the farm was “fixed” but the influence it widely had wasn’t, silk stayed at 1-2s till recently in which it has been peaking above 2s, yet T6’s remain low.

Precursors inflating to ludicrous prices? Anet announced precursor crafting confirmed and BAM precursors dropping like crazy

All things considered, I don’t think the inflation in GW2 is out of control or anything like that. Things could be much, much worse, as I’ve seen in other games.

I think there may still be certain trade goods that need to be more readily accessible (i.e. linen, rugged leather, giant eyes), and there are of course ones that are simply overabundant (i.e. thick leather, mithril, elder wood).

However, I’m not really sure what the suggestion is being given by the OP though. It sounds like they’re saying trade goods should be available in higher supply, but then they go on to say that you can’t have too many or they’ll be worthless.

I think what they’re describing as a “flaw” is simply the means by which such a system has to be balanced. It’s basically a constant war between how much money is being accumulated and how much is being spent, and the “ideal equilibrium” in which no inflation occurs is simply not practical to expect. Yes, there is the notion of a “perfect system” that can be used as a theoretical basis, but in practice you have to monitor actual data and adjust an in-game economy as you go. There’s nothing “perfect” about it.

The expansion is going to have potentially drastic effects on the economy as well, will be interesting to see what happens.

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

GW2 has some quite effective gold sinks, hell most people here probably dropped 16g at the event vendor today.

And the prices of individual items have very little to do with inflation most of the time.

Arkinos.7245:

GW2 has some quite effective gold sinks, hell most people here probably dropped 16g at the event vendor today.

And the prices of individual items have very little to do with inflation most of the time.

As the envelopes drop at least 88.88s in trophies, im not so sure that gold sink is actually as big as you think.

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

I believe he meant their nerfs to farming.

dietzero.3514:

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

I believe he meant their nerfs to farming.

There are nerfs to farming? As far as I can tell, drop rates for mats are still the same, and for gear as well. As well as easier ways to get them.

Some wonderful replies thank you :-) by retracting yes I meant decreasing the drop rate, sorry for the confusion!

Much appreciated on all responses, other opinions help me to form a balanced opinion so cheers for that :-)

pdavis.8031:

dietzero.3514:

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

I believe he meant their nerfs to farming.

There are nerfs to farming? As far as I can tell, drop rates for mats are still the same, and for gear as well. As well as easier ways to get them.

They constantly nerf farming, while promoting things they can heavily regulate.

dietzero.3514:

pdavis.8031:

dietzero.3514:

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

I believe he meant their nerfs to farming.

There are nerfs to farming? As far as I can tell, drop rates for mats are still the same, and for gear as well. As well as easier ways to get them.

They constantly nerf farming, while promoting things they can heavily regulate.

Examples?

The queensdale champ train was nerfed yes, shelters gate and penitant path farm was also nerfed, but those were the major ones. I am not aware of any other farm nerfs. But even with those nerfs, 2 more farms were introduced, which produce more champ bags than either of those combined. (Dry Top and Silverwastes) But the frostgorge champ train was actually made easier with the change to make the champs spawn with more players as well as making them events. (And it’s still going strong.)

Also open world mat farming has remained the same. Drop rates are still pretty good, if you know where to farm. Some mobs have a higher chance at dropping T6 than others.

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

The small increase to pres happen a long time ago way b4 the change to the range of outputs. I don’t believe the range change was ever agreed upon as a good thing as it was also accompanied by the level degradation change.

Edit: some other farms that have been nerfed include the Union point farm, linen farm, skelk farm, Blix farm, cof farm, and I’m sure quite a few others.

dietzero.3514:

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

I believe he meant their nerfs to farming.

What nerfs to farming? I can still make gold, I can still craft, I can still farm, I can still do the same things I’ve done before they altered events to reduce their abuse.

It is designed to be this way. More expensive things mean more ppl buying gems in order to convert them into gold. There is only one real gold sink in this game and it is known as the Mystic Toilet. This thing was very cleverly designed to swallow large quantities of gold and usually get nothing in return… just like real world slot machines. It is clever because it is so demotivating to use it that it persuade even more ppl to buy gems and convert them into gold. Gold is then accumulated on (proportionally to overal population) small number of accounts and since there are no real gold sinks other than mystic toilet or gem shop, it ends up inactive (out of system) on player accounts untill it is ultimately destroyed in mystic toilet or in gem shop (gold exchanged for gems used for puchasing gem shop things is forever lost…).

Essence Snow.3194:

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

The small increase to pres happen a long time ago way b4 the change to the range of outputs. I don’t believe the range change was ever agreed upon as a good thing as it was also accompanied by the level degradation change.

True, but my point was that overall there was an increase in drops (at least from the MF), which the OP stated was decreased. I don’t like the level degradation myself, but thats another topic.

Aidan Savage.2078:

dietzero.3514:

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

I believe he meant their nerfs to farming.

What nerfs to farming? I can still make gold, I can still craft, I can still farm, I can still do the same things I’ve done before they altered events to reduce their abuse.

You answered your own question…“the ones the altered”.

Aidan Savage.2078:

dietzero.3514:

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

I believe he meant their nerfs to farming.

What nerfs to farming? I can still make gold, I can still craft, I can still farm, I can still do the same things I’ve done before they altered events to reduce their abuse.

By “nerfs”, I think he’s referring to areas where there were unintentionally fast spawn rates. Sorta like the Lost Bandit Chest farm in one SW area that had WAY too many
chests.

Essence Snow.3194:

You answered your own question…“the ones the altered”.

But these weren’t “nerfs”, but rather bug fixes.

Essence Snow.3194:

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

The small increase to pres happen a long time ago way b4 the change to the range of outputs. I don’t believe the range change was ever agreed upon as a good thing as it was also accompanied by the level degradation change.

Edit: some other farms that have been nerfed include the Union point farm, linen farm, skelk farm, Blix farm, cof farm, and I’m sure quite a few others.

There is another linen farm? I generally used the dredge miners in Lonars pass I believe, or karma conversion.

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

Some wonderful replies thank you :-) by retracting yes I meant decreasing the drop rate, sorry for the confusion!

Much appreciated on all responses, other opinions help me to form a balanced opinion so cheers for that :-)

I am trying not to be rude here but your theory has so many flaws that i dont even know where to begin.

Essence Snow.3194:

Aidan Savage.2078:

dietzero.3514:

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

I believe he meant their nerfs to farming.

What nerfs to farming? I can still make gold, I can still craft, I can still farm, I can still do the same things I’ve done before they altered events to reduce their abuse.

You answered your own question…“the ones the altered”.

No, I didnt. You think I did by applying your own logic and definition of “nerf” to my post, though I’m not surprised someone would fall into that trap.

Is it a nerf if they limit karka’s chest to once a day to keep people from chain-spawning southsun maps to farm it (I’ve seen 5 maps chained personally, heard about 25+ from others)? Is it a nerf if they fixed the “retry” timer on the Blixx escort because players spew kitten even more toxic than radioactive sludge from Fukushima Daiichi when someone wants to succeed the event? Is it a nerf when the same thing was done to the “champions” in starter zones for the same reasons? Is it a nerf if they fix abused events and fix abused environmental loot? No, those are all bug and problem fixes.

Only player mentality looks at them as a nerf, and not every player at that.

I didn’t say precursor drop had decreased I said drop rate of items had decreased.

For a balanced economy to work you need to have as much gold being spent as the amount of gold being out back into the economy. As the only way to put gold into the economy is gems is be interested to see what the data shows with gold sinks versus gems for gold.

If you have too much gold, prices will drop and people would not need to buy gems with real world cash to get gold to afford stuff. However if there was too little gold then people would need to turn to gems to get gold.

So ask yourself this: if the economy is balanced and fair, why do many players have to buy gems to get gold?

My answer is simple, because anet wants it that way.

If I was into alternative theories, I might think that all the gold that goes into gold sinks is linked to an anet account. With all that gold, you could easily control the market by buying up items and putting them up for sale at a significantly higher cost. Meaning people cannot afford them without buying gems with real cash to get gold.

That’s if I believed in alternative theories of course ;-)

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Aidan Savage.2078:

dietzero.3514:

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

I believe he meant their nerfs to farming.

What nerfs to farming? I can still make gold, I can still craft, I can still farm, I can still do the same things I’ve done before they altered events to reduce their abuse.

By “nerfs”, I think he’s referring to areas where there were unintentionally fast spawn rates. Sorta like the Lost Bandit Chest farm in one SW area that had WAY too many
chests.

Essence Snow.3194:

You answered your own question…“the ones the altered”.

But these weren’t “nerfs”, but rather bug fixes.

I assumed he was referring to specific items or categories of items based on his post.

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

As the only way to put gold into the economy is gems is be interested to see what the data shows with gold sinks versus gems for gold.

This statement. Is wrong. Gold is created by enemies you kill, bags you open, and stuff you sell to merchants.

Of course it’s more than just coincidence that as soon as someone discovers a good farm, the drop rate soon falls. Every time a good T6 mat farm gets popular, within a week or two, the returns dry up. The big nerf to armored scales from Frostgorge barracuda comes to mind.

I get the feeling that the falling prices on precursors won’t last… anyone know if HoT-earned precursors will end up account-bound on acquire? If so, the supply of marketable precursors will remain pretty tight, and prices should rise again.

Wait, wut?

First, gem conversion is not the only way gold is put into the economy. Events, dungeons, bags, vendors, and cash drops are the ways gold is introduced into the economy. With gem conversion, it’s gold that was once in the economy being put back in. (from people who bought gems with gold).

Also it’s not required that people by gems to convert to gold. In fact the exchange rate on doing that isn’t the best right now. However people still do it if they want to get a bunch of gold fast without having to do anything in game, or convert leftover gems after making gem store purchases.

Also the theory that Anet is controlling the market has been debunked on several occasions. The prices are set solely by the players and their willingness to buy and willingness to sell. Nothing more.

Check out this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-have-a-question-about-the-economy/page/19#post4809082

John Smith (Anets economist), and others go into great depth about how the economy works in relation to sinks, and gold generation, drop rates, etc. It’s very educational. You might learn a few things, which never hurt nobody.

Brahmincorle.1264:

It is designed to be this way. More expensive things mean more ppl buying gems in order to convert them into gold. There is only one real gold sink in this game and it is known as the Mystic Toilet. This thing was very cleverly designed to swallow large quantities of gold and usually get nothing in return… just like real world slot machines. It is clever because it is so demotivating to use it that it persuade even more ppl to buy gems and convert them into gold. Gold is then accumulated on (proportionally to overal population) small number of accounts and since there are no real gold sinks other than mystic toilet or gem shop, it ends up inactive (out of system) on player accounts untill it is ultimately destroyed in mystic toilet or in gem shop (gold exchanged for gems used for puchasing gem shop things is forever lost…).

I don’t think you understand what you’re talking about…
There’s very few ways of throwing gold directly in the forge, and most of them rely on other game mechanics (buying exotics for forging isn’t a gold sink since most of the gold goes to other players and not removed from game. If anything it is an item sink)
…
Gem exchange does not work anything like that at all… When you buy gems (with gold) you’re buying those gems from someone who is selling gems for gold. Certainly there is a large ‘tax’ on the gold —> gems side but most of the gold stays in economy.

Dasenthal.6520:

I don’t think you understand what you’re talking about…
There’s very few ways of throwing gold directly in the forge, and most of them rely on other game mechanics (buying exotics for forging isn’t a gold sink since most of the gold goes to other players and not removed from game. If anything it is an item sink)
…

Not entirely. Things could also get vendored for gold and therefore everything that was flushed down the toilet had value in gold. But I agree, this gold sink is not as significant as I thought (it is rather insignificant) when I was writing my op which only supports my main point that inflation in this game is by design because devs wants promote gold to gem conversion.

Dasenthal.6520:

Gem exchange does not work anything like that at all… When you buy gems (with gold) you’re buying those gems from someone who is selling gems for gold. Certainly there is a large ‘tax’ on the gold —> gems side but most of the gold stays in economy.

This is exactly what I said. I also said that part of this gold is later destroyed in form of gems in gem shop and part of that gold is in inactive state on player accounts (which mean it is temporarily out of system – it could be even out for good if player stop playing this game.

Gold is not destroyed in the gem exchange beyond the extent of the taxes removed. On Day One, the exchange had a set amount of gold and gems in the respective pools, an extremely small amount of gold with an extremely large amount of gems (iirc). That meant 1 gem was worth very little, while 1 gold was very valuable. When players bought gems with cash, and exchanged them for gold, they added to the gem pool, and took from the gold pool. This causes gem value to go down. When players spend gold for gems, it does the opposite. That’s why gem prices are what they are now.

The gold isnt even “destroyed” when those gems are spent on the gem store. That gold stays locked in the exchange. In essence, when you buy gems for gold, and spend those gems, you’re spending the cash those gems were originally bought with.

Exeon.4358:

A guild mate of mine has a very plausible theory in which he believes that Anet is something changing the market by choice with content they have been adding to the game.

Remember silk at 3.2 silver a piece? Remember powerfull blood at 70s? the “Big Dig” farm with silverwastes comes along and within days silk crashed to 90 copper and T6’s all over crashed.

Of course the farm was “fixed” but the influence it widely had wasn’t, silk stayed at 1-2s till recently in which it has been peaking above 2s, yet T6’s remain low.

Precursors inflating to ludicrous prices? Anet announced precursor crafting confirmed and BAM precursors dropping like crazy

Except silk didn’t drop to 90c, it dropped from 2s85c when Silverwastes launched to 2s9c the day before it bounced back up to 2s51c a day after the patch.

You seem to forget there are at least two sites that have been tracking TP prices on every item since the game launched.

Dasenthal.6520:

Brahmincorle.1264:

It is designed to be this way. More expensive things mean more ppl buying gems in order to convert them into gold. There is only one real gold sink in this game and it is known as the Mystic Toilet. This thing was very cleverly designed to swallow large quantities of gold and usually get nothing in return… just like real world slot machines. It is clever because it is so demotivating to use it that it persuade even more ppl to buy gems and convert them into gold. Gold is then accumulated on (proportionally to overal population) small number of accounts and since there are no real gold sinks other than mystic toilet or gem shop, it ends up inactive (out of system) on player accounts untill it is ultimately destroyed in mystic toilet or in gem shop (gold exchanged for gems used for puchasing gem shop things is forever lost…).

I don’t think you understand what you’re talking about…
There’s very few ways of throwing gold directly in the forge, and most of them rely on other game mechanics (buying exotics for forging isn’t a gold sink since most of the gold goes to other players and not removed from game. If anything it is an item sink)
…
Gem exchange does not work anything like that at all… When you buy gems (with gold) you’re buying those gems from someone who is selling gems for gold. Certainly there is a large ‘tax’ on the gold —> gems side but most of the gold stays in economy.

Just the bolded part. But iirc there is not a “tax” on the gem exchange. The rates were set initially at the beginning in such a way that it was impossible to make money by “flipping gems” I’ll try to find the quote but im very certain that John Smith said something to that effect.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Gold is not destroyed in the gem exchange beyond the extent of the taxes removed. On Day One, the exchange had a set amount of gold and gems in the respective pools, an extremely small amount of gold with an extremely large amount of gems (iirc). That meant 1 gem was worth very little, while 1 gold was very valuable. When players bought gems with cash, and exchanged them for gold, they added to the gem pool, and took from the gold pool. This causes gem value to go down. When players spend gold for gems, it does the opposite. That’s why gem prices are what they are now.

The gold isnt even “destroyed” when those gems are spent on the gem store. That gold stays locked in the exchange. In essence, when you buy gems for gold, and spend those gems, you’re spending the cash those gems were originally bought with.

And the gold you get by selling gems is now from players who sold gold for gems. So the only source of gold in the game is from the various rewards in the game itself. Some people just don’t want to accept that.

Farming for items is today better than it has ever been. Silver wastes breach hopping plus chest farm + converting extra bandit crests to bandit bags dumps more items than anything we’ve ever seen that wasn’t an exploit.

Runes, Rares, Ectos, T6, precursors, sub 80 gear… Prices of these are all down. Prices for new gemstore skins are lower than during the height of key running. For most items, prices are cheaper today than ever.

The available sinks are controlling prices very well right now. OP is 100% wrong.

I think what’s going on today is that, in addition to all of the new supply, players are hoarding money so they will have a war chest for the expansion. The expansion will introduce items that will cost a small fortune, like a new minipet series or crafting the new legendaries.

I think demand for precursors dropped off a cliff once precursor collections & new legendary weapons were announced.

If there is a giant gold sink it is the huge supply of stuff still sitting on the market at yesterday’s prices. All of those TP fees and other related sinks… Gone. (Forever?)

dietzero.3514:

pdavis.8031:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Wanze.8410:

Rauderi.8706:

I’m sure others like Wanze will rip your statement wide open

I stopped reading when he wrote that Anet is retracting items from the economy.

Yes, that confused me as well. I’m not sure what proof the OP has of such things, as I have observed the opposite to be true (i.e. Silverwastes and Dry Top chests, PvP reward tracks, ascended material recyclers, &c.).

And not to mention a wider range of exotics and an increased chance for precursors from the forge. It’s now easier than ever to get items, even rare ones.

I believe he meant their nerfs to farming.

the way i see it their nerfs to farming help to discourage playing repetitively (i.e. running around repeating the same content over and over (events or enemies))
not convinced they have the balance right just yet but its way better than it was at launch

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

For a balanced economy to work you need to have as much gold being spent as the amount of gold being out back into the economy. As the only way to put gold into the economy is gems is be interested to see what the data shows with gold sinks versus gems for gold.

If you have too much gold, prices will drop and people would not need to buy gems with real world cash to get gold to afford stuff. However if there was too little gold then people would need to turn to gems to get gold.

So ask yourself this: if the economy is balanced and fair, why do many players have to buy gems to get gold?

MMO players would never put up with an economy where gold sink amounts matched gold faucet amounts. GW2 is no different than other MMO’s in that regard. Sinks are there to allow for some control over the amount of coin in the game, but the amount of coin in the game goes up, inexorably, over time.

Using gems to acquire gold does not add gold to the economy, it subtracts it to some extent. Players exchange gems for gold using gems they purchased. Other players exchange gold they made in game for gems. The exchange does not straight-up manufacture gold.

Gold Sinks and the whole economy become flawed the moment you factor in Gem to Gold conversion.

You can have all the gold sinks in the world, when all it takes is a swipe of a credit card to get more the economy will suffer.

To post above ^^

You cannot honestly say some of the higher priced items are not that price because of gem to gold conversion.

They have only made more things drop and more often compared to older drop rates so…. I am not sure what your talking about. All games start out gold being hard to get and having great worth and over time as ppl generate more gold it lose its worth. As long as gold or money dose not become pointless (it cant in GW2 due to gold to gems even at the worst you can get something for “free” with gold) it still worth using.

Ricky Da Man.5064:

Gold Sinks and the whole economy become flawed the moment you factor in Gem to Gold conversion.

You can have all the gold sinks in the world, when all it takes is a swipe of a credit card to get more the economy will suffer.

To post above ^^

You cannot honestly say some of the higher priced items are not that price because of gem to gold conversion.

I’d take a look into how the gem exchange works and why it hasn’t affected the economy..

Ayrilana.1396:

Ricky Da Man.5064:

Gold Sinks and the whole economy become flawed the moment you factor in Gem to Gold conversion.

You can have all the gold sinks in the world, when all it takes is a swipe of a credit card to get more the economy will suffer.

To post above ^^

You cannot honestly say some of the higher priced items are not that price because of gem to gold conversion.

I’d take a look into how the gem exchange works and why it hasn’t affected the economy..

It does not matter if gold is taken from one player and given to another, players will still pay a higher price because of how easy it is with gem to gold.

Ricky Da Man.5064:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ricky Da Man.5064:

Gold Sinks and the whole economy become flawed the moment you factor in Gem to Gold conversion.

You can have all the gold sinks in the world, when all it takes is a swipe of a credit card to get more the economy will suffer.

To post above ^^

You cannot honestly say some of the higher priced items are not that price because of gem to gold conversion.

I’d take a look into how the gem exchange works and why it hasn’t affected the economy..

It does not matter if gold is taken from one player and given to another, players will still pay a higher price because of how easy it is with gem to gold.

As I stated before, you should take a look into how the gem exchange works.

Ricky Da Man.5064:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ricky Da Man.5064:

Gold Sinks and the whole economy become flawed the moment you factor in Gem to Gold conversion.

You can have all the gold sinks in the world, when all it takes is a swipe of a credit card to get more the economy will suffer.

To post above ^^

You cannot honestly say some of the higher priced items are not that price because of gem to gold conversion.

I’d take a look into how the gem exchange works and why it hasn’t affected the economy..

It does not matter if gold is taken from one player and given to another, players will still pay a higher price because of how easy it is with gem to gold.

Let me see if I can explain it in simple terms.

The gold the player gets from the exchange for selling gems was deposited there by players who used their gold to buy gems. None get created with a “swipe of a credit card”. All gold in the game comes directly from player rewards for playing the game.

One element of spending gold I’d like to see would be for the very rich to be able to “rent” amenities. Yes I am aware we got that already if you buy the royal or airship pass with gold, but the system needs a lot of different tiers and also needs to make it obvious that you’re shelling out the cash so you can show off.

For example, say you can rent a knave. This NPC does not partake in combat, but carries an extra set of equipment for you to hotswap to when out of combat and not near enemies (has a shot animation), and also grants you access to your bank whenever you let it set up shop (~5s cast).

This knave would cost by the week. Discount for renting by the month. Everyone could easily see it, there should be 20-30 different models you can pick from, and maybe evne some unlocked ones (you still need to rent).
Cost would be… high. Let’s put it that way. This would be a luxury item you get because you’re rolling in the cash, anyhow. The money spent on it simply vanishes as it’s paid to a NPC.

I think Ricky believes that the gem to gold exchange allows some players to pay exorbitant prices that other players could not afford without it, thus increasing the prices on at least some part of the market. So, he is thinking not about inflation, but more about the wealth disparity.
He is wrong, of course, as the gold in gem to gold exchange does not come from poor people, but from the wealthy ones (and , at the same time, it’s not those that posess lot of gold already that use their credit cards to supplement their in-game wealth).

Well, he is right in saying that wealth disparity (which exists in GW2, and seems to be quite bad) affects the prices in negative way. He’s just totally wrong at naming the gem to gold exchange as the cause of this situation.