Lord Lefteris – Engineer [Sanctum of Rall]
In just one weekend..
“If you want the truth? Guild Wars 2 is a flawed game, but it does not deserve 1/5 ratings. "
That is your opinion, and I am not here to discuss that. You have deviated from the point at hand to suite your argument rather than discussing the issue, which you obviously want to deflect.
You assertion that others should not go on a “campaign” to smear ANet because it is “childlish” is the point. Your ethics are irrelevant, the behavior of ANet is.
You attempt to coerce does not deviate from the fact that you have no ground to tell anyone anything in regards to any attempt to inform the public at large about the unethical behavior of ANet.
If you hate the game so much now, why are you still here?
There’s plenty of us who still love the game, and a single tier of new equipment isn’t going to change that.
Get a life or something kid.
?
That’s why people are complaining… What kind of life do you have while grinding for gear in a game?Really kid?
I work a full time job(40 hours a week), I have a girlfriend, and a life. Yet I’ve managed to gear out 2 level 80’s and run a guild all by myself without much help.
I don’t want to hear “Oh I can’t have a life and do this” because that’s just a lame excuse.
LOL, I work a full time job(40 hours a week), I have a girlfriend till she leaves me for playing too much, and NO life. Yet I’ve managed to gear out 2 level 80’s and run a guild all by myself without much help. Though this isn’t relevant cause I’m talking about exotics not full ascended gear.
fixed
Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.
Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…
Sure, the stat is pretty made up, but in general, a vast majority of a game population doesn’t bother visiting forums in the end. It’s the exact reason why information will be found across multiple sources, as some people will prefer other venues than others. Most will never bother visiting an official forum, instead opting for other sites.
Got any stats to back that up?
“If you want the truth? Guild Wars 2 is a flawed game, but it does not deserve 1/5 ratings. "
That is your opinion, and I am not here to discuss that. You have deviated from the point at hand to suite your argument rather than discussing the issue, which you obviously want to deflect.
You assertion that others should not go on a “campaign” to smear ANet because it is “childlish” is the point. Your ethics are irrelevant, the behavior of ANet is.
You attempt to coerce does not deviate from the fact that you have no ground to tell anyone anything in regards to any attempt to inform the public at large about the unethical behavior of ANet.
Nuh uh. I didn’t say it was childish, that other guy did. I think it’s foolish and dangerous. I have no ground to instruct you to do anything, but you also have no call to instruct (or if you prefer “inspire”) others all the same. You or your friend.
As for the issue, I did discuss the issue. I think it is foolish and dangerous to manipulate metascores to the extent that has been discussed with a cavalier attitude such as: “It might not be the guilty party getting fired, or worse it could be an entire game.” “So what?”
I am making no coercion attempts. I am not applying any force to stop people you are also not employing.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.
Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…
Sure, the stat is pretty made up, but in general, a vast majority of a game population doesn’t bother visiting forums in the end. It’s the exact reason why information will be found across multiple sources, as some people will prefer other venues than others. Most will never bother visiting an official forum, instead opting for other sites.
Got any stats to back that up?
No I don’t, but I also don’t see the entire playerbase of this game posting here. Not everyone sits in forums all day. Experience tells me a majority of players will not bother with forums (specifically the official forum, many would be just as content with other venues of communication)
Lord Lefteris – Engineer [Sanctum of Rall]
(edited by tkalamba.2541)
" I have no ground to instruct you to do anything, but you also have no call to instruct (or if you prefer “inspire”) others all the same. You or your friend."
Actually, I do. If I tell the truth about a topic, that is my right. I am a big fan of the Bill of Rights.
I can tell you are in the advertising industry, by your flawed logic. The difference between you and I, is that you are in the business of coercion, and I in logic and data/fact assessment.
Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.
Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…
Sure, the stat is pretty made up, but in general, a vast majority of a game population doesn’t bother visiting forums in the end. It’s the exact reason why information will be found across multiple sources, as some people will prefer other venues than others. Most will never bother visiting an official forum, instead opting for other sites.
Got any stats to back that up?
No I don’t, but I also don’t see the entire playerbase of this game posting here. Not everyone sits in forums all day. Experience tells me a majority of players will not bother with forums (specifically the official forum, many would be just as content with other venues of communication)
Your right, the entire player base does not post on these forums. But what I do know is that a thread I created not too long ago only has about 30 replies yet over 1,000 views. That is the player majority that is seeing the harsh fumes of the forum posters. I don’t obtain ideas or thoughts because I speak them, I gain them by reading and determining a conclusion. That is your player base, those 1,000 viewers. And those viewers are being bombarded with negativity about the game.
(edited by Leonard.2867)
Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.
Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…
Sure, the stat is pretty made up, but in general, a vast majority of a game population doesn’t bother visiting forums in the end. It’s the exact reason why information will be found across multiple sources, as some people will prefer other venues than others. Most will never bother visiting an official forum, instead opting for other sites.
Got any stats to back that up?
No I don’t, but I also don’t see the entire playerbase of this game posting here. Not everyone sits in forums all day. Experience tells me a majority of players will not bother with forums (specifically the official forum, many would be just as content with other venues of communication)
Your right, the entire player base does not post on these forums. But what I do is that a thread I created not too long ago only has about 30 replies yet over 1,000 views. That is the player majority that is seeing the harsh fumes of the forum posters. I don’t obtain ideas or thoughts because I speak them, I gain them by reading and determining a conclusion. That is your player base, those 1,000 viewers. And those viewers are being bombarded with negativity about the game.
Do you know if those views are unique views? Or repeat views? There is a massive difference.
Also, in a game that sold 2 million copies, 1000 forum views is tiny. That’s not even 1% of the people that purchased the game.
Lord Lefteris – Engineer [Sanctum of Rall]
I don’t think it’s “you people”. I think it’s a small knot of very disgruntled fans. This is the same kind of mentality as fans who will throw stuff on the field of a ball game when their team is losing . . . causing the game to be ended prematurely and with no chance to recover.
Those fans you are referring too are the fans who have either played GW1 and know the philosophy, or the fans who have accepted the GW1/2 Mission statement.
“Read my lips. No new taxes”
-George W. Bush
[pedant] George H.W. Bush. That’s Senior’s career killing quote [/pedant]
“I’m always achieving greatness!”
No, I’m not in the advertising industry. That’s a nice try though, you can keep guessing.
I am not in the business of coercion, though I’m pretty sure you already decided that was a bygone conclusion. I understand methods of verbal coercion, true, but as a matter of course for what I actually do as my work. I am not in the business of “truth” as you perceive it, because I work almost entirely inside worlds of things which do not exist. To me, truth is something which can be outright proven (2+2=4, that the steak I ordered medium was in fact medium rare, or that the car which ran into me is the same one with the crumpled bumper and same color paint job as the paint transfer on my car) and not something which can be subjected to interpretations (you gave me a drink glass half full of ice when I told you I wanted it half empty, therefore you did not give me what I requested).
I’ll make you a fair deal though. If you tell me what business you are in, I’ll tell you what I do for a living.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.
Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…
Sure, the stat is pretty made up, but in general, a vast majority of a game population doesn’t bother visiting forums in the end. It’s the exact reason why information will be found across multiple sources, as some people will prefer other venues than others. Most will never bother visiting an official forum, instead opting for other sites.
Got any stats to back that up?
No I don’t, but I also don’t see the entire playerbase of this game posting here. Not everyone sits in forums all day. Experience tells me a majority of players will not bother with forums (specifically the official forum, many would be just as content with other venues of communication)
Your right, the entire player base does not post on these forums. But what I do is that a thread I created not too long ago only has about 30 replies yet over 1,000 views. That is the player majority that is seeing the harsh fumes of the forum posters. I don’t obtain ideas or thoughts because I speak them, I gain them by reading and determining a conclusion. That is your player base, those 1,000 viewers. And those viewers are being bombarded with negativity about the game.
Do you know if those views are unique views? Or repeat views? There is a massive difference.
Also, in a game that sold 2 million copies, 1000 forum views is tiny. That’s not even 1% of the people that purchased the game.
They are unique views. If you have trouble believing that then create a post and keep viewing it until you figure it out.
And for a thread with only 32 post, over 1000 views is massive. To debunk me is to debunk yourself which fails to debunk me (WoWzerz BoWzer, Leonard.2867 just tried to act all intelligent and stuff. psh!) Still does not negate the idea of, the viewers are the player base who do not post yet read the negative post about the direction of the game.
Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.
Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…
Sure, the stat is pretty made up, but in general, a vast majority of a game population doesn’t bother visiting forums in the end. It’s the exact reason why information will be found across multiple sources, as some people will prefer other venues than others. Most will never bother visiting an official forum, instead opting for other sites.
Got any stats to back that up?
No I don’t, but I also don’t see the entire playerbase of this game posting here. Not everyone sits in forums all day. Experience tells me a majority of players will not bother with forums (specifically the official forum, many would be just as content with other venues of communication)
Your right, the entire player base does not post on these forums. But what I do is that a thread I created not too long ago only has about 30 replies yet over 1,000 views. That is the player majority that is seeing the harsh fumes of the forum posters. I don’t obtain ideas or thoughts because I speak them, I gain them by reading and determining a conclusion. That is your player base, those 1,000 viewers. And those viewers are being bombarded with negativity about the game.
Do you know if those views are unique views? Or repeat views? There is a massive difference.
Also, in a game that sold 2 million copies, 1000 forum views is tiny. That’s not even 1% of the people that purchased the game.
They are unique views. If you have trouble believing that then create a post and keep viewing it until you figure it out.
And for a thread with only 32 post, over 1000 views is massive. To debunk me is to debunk yourself which fails to debunk me (WoWzerz BoWzer, Leonard.2867 just tried to act all intelligent and stuff. psh!) Still does not negate the idea of, the viewers are the player base who do not post yet read the negative post about the direction of the game.
I’m not trying to debunk, I’m just asking questions, as i have not actually paid attention to post counts and don’t bother creating my own threads. Hence why I asked.
I fully agree however, that anyone who bothers coming to these forums are seeing nothing but negativity, but thats the case with every change ever made to an online game.
I also feel, we need to do a better job of stopping the negativity and write more constructive criticisms.
Lord Lefteris – Engineer [Sanctum of Rall]
(edited by tkalamba.2541)
I have, for the most part, greatly reduced the amount of time I devote to looking at MMO forums. And the reason for this is represented in a couple of shining examples in this thread alone.
The raging ridiculously melodramatic hyperbole that suffuses through the forum… it is distasteful.
There is nothing wrong with expressions of ones feelings… providing criticisms… or anything along those lines…
The problem is when you log on see what the Lost Shores content is all about hoping to see some discusion of the pros and cons and instead see something along the lines of:
“Anet hires nothing but liars…. they ruined the game…. this game is going down… those devs violated me, gave my grandma cancer, pissed in my cheerios, and kicked my puppy. They said no gear treadmill… they are still saying no gear treadmill… but they only responded once with this answer even though there were 53 threads about the gear treadmill, so they aren’t communicating with us and they are liars!!!! Burn them!!! Unite my brothers and rise up against the evil corporations stealing our lives away!!!! We hates them… don’t we precious?”
And yes… I know that is an exaggeration… but all you have to do is thumb through the now mostly useless forum to see examples of this sort of sophomoric ridiculousness. Is it any wonder they have stopped posting as much? It doesn’t matter WHAT they post… the majority of replies they get are ridiculous.
OP is right… the forums here are much less pleasant than they used to be. And all those preaching hellfire and damnation just don’t get that all the gross exaggeration and hyperbole doesn’t affect the changes they want to see… it only weakens the whole through acidic erosion.
Protip: It’s ok to be dissatisfied and express it… just don’t do it in laughably dramatic ways like you were born on the set of General Hospital. If you aren’t being constructive… then you are being destructive.
Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.
Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…
Sure, the stat is pretty made up, but in general, a vast majority of a game population doesn’t bother visiting forums in the end. It’s the exact reason why information will be found across multiple sources, as some people will prefer other venues than others. Most will never bother visiting an official forum, instead opting for other sites.
Got any stats to back that up?
No I don’t, but I also don’t see the entire playerbase of this game posting here. Not everyone sits in forums all day. Experience tells me a majority of players will not bother with forums (specifically the official forum, many would be just as content with other venues of communication)
Your right, the entire player base does not post on these forums. But what I do is that a thread I created not too long ago only has about 30 replies yet over 1,000 views. That is the player majority that is seeing the harsh fumes of the forum posters. I don’t obtain ideas or thoughts because I speak them, I gain them by reading and determining a conclusion. That is your player base, those 1,000 viewers. And those viewers are being bombarded with negativity about the game.
Do you know if those views are unique views? Or repeat views? There is a massive difference.
Also, in a game that sold 2 million copies, 1000 forum views is tiny. That’s not even 1% of the people that purchased the game.
They are unique views. If you have trouble believing that then create a post and keep viewing it until you figure it out.
And for a thread with only 32 post, over 1000 views is massive. To debunk me is to debunk yourself which fails to debunk me (WoWzerz BoWzer, Leonard.2867 just tried to act all intelligent and stuff. psh!) Still does not negate the idea of, the viewers are the player base who do not post yet read the negative post about the direction of the game.
I’m not trying to debunk, I’m just asking questions, as i have not actually paid attention to post counts and don’t bother creating my own threads. Hence why I asked.
I fully agree however, that anyone who bothers coming to these forums are seeing nothing but negativity, but thats the case with every change ever made to an online game.
I also feel, we need to do a better job of stopping the negativity and write more constructive criticisms.
You know the only time I felt discerned about reading the forums is when the game first game out and people cried about the dungeons. I was a crier then, just not a poster. But I picked up my tears and learned to play the new Anet GW2 style that is different from GW1. Now I enjoy the game; running around playing all the Anet PvE content. Then the Apocalyptic patch came, and the LFM FOTM LvL 1000 invaded LA and defeated the Lions Guard. Now I am spending more time joining the masses of the minority in fuming against Anet’s philosophy change.
Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.
Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…
Sure, the stat is pretty made up, but in general, a vast majority of a game population doesn’t bother visiting forums in the end. It’s the exact reason why information will be found across multiple sources, as some people will prefer other venues than others. Most will never bother visiting an official forum, instead opting for other sites.
So, using the same argumentation, we could also say that 90% of the positive posts on the late patch came from only 2-3% of the game population.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
So, using the same argumentation, we could also say that 90% of the positive posts on the late patch came from only 2-3% of the game population.
I don’t think anyone is going to say your logic is flawed on that one.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.
Gotta love when people just make up stats out of thin air…
Sure, the stat is pretty made up, but in general, a vast majority of a game population doesn’t bother visiting forums in the end. It’s the exact reason why information will be found across multiple sources, as some people will prefer other venues than others. Most will never bother visiting an official forum, instead opting for other sites.
So, using the same argumentation, we could also say that 90% of the positive posts on the late patch came from 2-3% of the game population.
You could technically say anything… we don’t know anywhere near how many players actually post or browse here, we can only make observations. Why have several different channels to push a message if absolutely everyone used the forum? One would think because people use different places to communicate.
There will always be people who don’t go to forums.
There’s still plenty of people in game who didn’t even know of Ascended gear over the weekend
Lord Lefteris – Engineer [Sanctum of Rall]
Counting forum posts/unique views and comparing that total to the player population isn’t really a statistically viable or useful way to measure player discontent. Not only is the ratio inaccurate at best, but you’re ignoring a crucial point: the forums are a subcommunity of the game. It’s impossible to know how many players join the forum for the first time in order to voice their discontent, but it is fair to say that there’s a reasonable core of forum readers who drop by at least regularly enough to have some vested interest in the forum.
Therefore the question isn’t “How many people in the forum are complaining about this change, vs. how many people are actually playing the game?” The question is: How reliable a bellwether is the forum for predicting player attitudes?
Probably not terribly reliable, but also not insignificant. If an issue is fiercely contested on the forums over many, many days of angry debate, then chances are, it’s a matter of at least some concern to a significant portion of the playerbase.
Then the question becomes: What constitutes “significant?” In this case I think arguing that ‘significant’ necessitates ‘majority’ is specious reasoning. Even if 1 out of 20 players is upset enough at this change to discourage them from spending quite as much money on the Black Lion store, or discourage them from logging in as often, then that is a significant repercussion, the effects of which will probably be noticed by ANet’s internal logistics.
When City of Heroes implemented “Enhancement Diversification,” the forum exploded with outrage. Some players left—not nearly enough to constitute a majority, but a significant enough portion to cause a noticeable dent in activity. Developers talked about this phenomenon (BackAlleyBrawler in particular) years later.
(edited by Eveningstar.6940)
Yes a hand full of ppl can make endless topic about how much they hate the game but for some reason do not stop playing and if they have they are just simply trolling ppl on the forms at this point. These forms are depressing because of ppl who cant move on and they realty need to start talking about removing ppl ability to post.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Counting forum posts/unique and comparing that total to the player population isn’t really a statistically viable or useful way to measure player discontent. Not only is the ratio inaccurate at best, but you’re ignoring a crucial point: the forums are a subcommunity of the game. It’s impossible to know how many players join the forum for the first time in order to voice their discontent, but it is fair to say that there’s a reasonable core of forum readers who drop by at least regularly enough to have some vested interest in the forum.
Therefore the question isn’t “How many people in the forum are complaining about this change, vs. how many people are actually playing the game?” The question is: How reliable a bellwether is the forum for predicting player attitudes?
Probably not terribly reliable, but also not insignificant. If an issue is fiercely contested on the forums over many, many days of angry debate, then chances are, it’s a matter of at least some concern to a significant portion of the playerbase.
Then the question becomes: What constitutes “significant?” In this case I think arguing that ‘significant’ necessitates ‘majority’ is specious reasoning. Even if 1 out of 20 players is upset enough at this change to discourage them from spending quite as much money on the Black Lion store, or discourage them from logging in as often, then that is a significant repercussion, the effects of which will probably be noticed by ANet’s internal logistics.
When City of Heroes implemented “Enhancement Diversification,” the forum exploded with outrage. Some players left—not nearly enough to constitute a majority, but a significant enough portion to cause a noticeable dent in activity. Developers talked about this phenomenon (BackAlleyBrawler in particular) years later.
“Counting forum posts/unique and comparing that total to the player population isn’t really a statistically viable or useful way to measure player discontent.”
&
""How many people in the forum are complaining about this change, vs. how many people are actually playing the game?"
vs.
“If an issue is fiercely contested on the forums over many, many days of angry debate, then chances are, it’s a matter of at least some concern to a significant portion of the playerbase”
Say what? What exactly are you trying to say here?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stop-making-Topics-About-the-New-Dungeon
I think I rest my case!
Say what? What exactly are you trying to say here?
TLDR: It’s pointless to count the number of posts in a given thread and try to draw a meaningful ratio between that and the number of players in the game. So saying things like, “Well, there were 11,000 posts in that thread and 2 million players in game, so that’s a pretty insignificant portion.”
Instead its more valuable to look at the forum as a subcommunity in and of itself, in which case the huge Ascended Gear thread is the biggest argument in the history of this community. Then the question you’re asking is: How accurate a bellwether is the forum community in reflecting the attitude of the game communtiy?
Finally, it’s important to remember that you don’t need a majority opinion to make a difference. It’s not like you need 51% of in-game players to be upset over this for Ascended gear to matter.
If even 1 in 20 players were upset enough that they’d spend less money on the store or log in less often, that’s a noticeable repercussion and ANet’s internal metrics will pick it up.
If I’m rambling, I’m really sorry. I have a habit of doing that and I’m working on it. I also haven’t had much sleep lately.
[…]
So your personal stance on the issue defines what is a majority/“legit fans” and what a minority/“apologists”? Pathetic. You’re exactly what the OP is addressing, thank you for illustrating an example on the changing board culture for everyone to see.
Also did ever the idea come to you that that one dungeon and gear tier is exactly meant for that “vocal minority”, as you call them?
I don’t think it’s “you people”. I think it’s a small knot of very disgruntled fans. This is the same kind of mentality as fans who will throw stuff on the field of a ball game when their team is losing . . . causing the game to be ended prematurely and with no chance to recover.
Those fans you are referring too are the fans who have either played GW1 and know the philosophy, or the fans who have accepted the GW1/2 Mission statement.
“Read my lips. No new taxes”
-George W. BushWe pesky, principled people who believed what anet said. Flood online buying sites with your opinions about this injustice.. If they miss the holiday sales surge, they might change their ways.
So let me get this straight… you are actively trying to get a subset of players to actively sabotage a game that a vast majority actually enjoys to play? What will this accomplish really? Aside from making you look a tad selfish?
Since when is writing honest reviews sabotage? If it pressures for the right change, then it’s good.
Writing reviews isn’t, but attempting to start an organized campaign to intentionally make a game sound bad is. If people want to write a review they can, but campaigning for it is childish. Why not let people play the game on their own terms, and let them make their own opinions? They pay for the game once with no sub fee so really what harm is there in letting people experience the game. Some will enjoy it, some wont, but attempting to force your opinion on others is not the correct way to go about it.
They are free to do what they want. I am suggesting a legal and effective outlet for their outrage. Forcing? How is this forcing? Lol
Telling people to flood online review sites is an attempt to force an opinion on the masses.
.
Yes I have a gun to their heads. Lol. Clearly they have no free will. Lol.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
I’ll say 4 things.
1) I am not going to be spending any more money on GW2 due to my displeasure with their apparent disregard for one of the reasons I spent the money I already have in the first place.
2) I am not going to recommend the game to anyone, for the same reason.
3) My stance on 1 and 2 will be reversed if they make it clear that Ascended is the final pre-Legendary gear tier, AND they implement ways to get it other than the fractals dungeon.
4) I have nothing against the Fractals dungeon, and think it and its successors should be in the game. However, I also like having the best gear, and don’t believe its acquisition should be gated into only one type of activity in a game where there are so many other things to do, at least some of which are currently un-attended.
Head of Global Community
This thread has basically come to people throwing insults at each other – I will close this thread. You are welcome to discuss all aspects of the game – but please do so in a respectful manner. We will close any thread that degrades to people just bickering with each other.