Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

Whelm.9072:

Hehe, now players who run MF gear are the highly skilled elite…

No. I’m just suggesting that they should not automatically be assumed to be a hindrance because they use MF gear. Skill needs to be taken into account and a lot of the “difficult” aspects of dungeons can be dealt with by skill alone. Using a blanket statement that all MF users are a hindrance is incorrect.

Whelm.9072:

One player who excels at a playstyle, a class, or a build is not the basis by which a judgement on overall usefulness or general effectiveness can be made

Nor is sacrificing part of one stat

While I agree that a blanket statement about the effectiveness of players based on gear choice or build is incorrect I also think that denying that sacrificing any stat for MF does not categorically diminish power is also incorrect.

The loss may be nearly neglible for some but there is a loss of something. Whether this is eclipsed by player skill has no bearing on the actual minus. It exists. Does it matter? Perhaps not, but this really shouldn’t be the argument anyway.

The MF mechanic is ridiculous to me for entirely different reasons. If it never existed would people be clamoring for it?

1) Normalize loot drop rates to a pre November 15th minus a set percentage (-10%,, -20%)
2) Make Chanpions and veterans drop loot as it was mentioned that they should be.
3) Lower the non magic find stats of MF gear rendering it useless for dungeons and challenging to farm with.

Win

Using MF gear in public events like Claw of Jormag or Orr events is perfectly reasonable. Event with hordes of mobs where only challange is to tag them is like made for MF gear. Your damage is not even relevant since zerg always generate enormous amounts of dmg and you only need to spam as much aoe as you can to maximize MF potential.
On other hand in more demanding enviroment like dungeons it is quite risky to replace toughness or vitality with MF.
So there are good places for MF gear and there are not so good places to wear it.

Depends on what you’re doing, I find MF annoying, especially because the people I know that use it don’t really understand how it “works” like they think getting a good drop from a chest is because of their 100% magic find or whatever. And TBH they suck at dungeons…

Don’t like it, don’t see the point, just update drops so everyone can win.

No love for MF here, though I am willing to propose a compromise.

Either they flag people with MF gear with something visual in the party panel so I can boot those handicaps, or add up all MF from each party member and apply it to the whole group, so everyone is contributing fairly to the game.

AcidicVision.5498:

Nearly all MF gear is offensive. It sacrifices defensive traits.

It sacrifices its primary trait (offensive or defensive) to magic find, and keeps the secondary offensive benefits.

Someone in Explorer’s gear has exactly the same offensive bonuses as someone in Knight’s gear — a tank. Nobody buys Knight’s gear because they want to maximize their offensive power.

So maybe do a scaling mechanism where group MF is determined by the highest MF any one individual player has + the average of the other players (if it’s just two people, then just go with highest mf). So even the guys who are making themselves more of a “liability” are taking that risk by providing the group a loot bump. There’s also an incentive to group because you can kill faster and take on more encounters without losing MF but rather gaining it.

Heinel.6548:

No love for MF here, though I am willing to propose a compromise.

Either they flag people with MF gear with something visual in the party panel so I can boot those handicaps, or add up all MF from each party member and apply it to the whole group, so everyone is contributing fairly to the game.

Im sure Anet wont encourage discrimination of that sort.

How do you measure how much contribution someone is making. Perhaps your sluggish movement, or lack of doding skill is contributing less than a guy in MF gear that doesnt get hit that often. Since MF gear got both pwr / pre stats along so its not lacking offensive stats i assume your reffering to defensive contribution.

By nature of your immature post i can only guess that you havent really given any tought to this matter…

It sounds as if the OP would just like to have MF given to him, via the proposed modifications to the loot tables, to remove the need for him to make a “choice”.

Nobody wants to make any choices in games anymore, every choice needs to be easily changed back, in case they didn’t like it, and this game already gives you choices like this in spades. Wearing MF gear is a choice, and it is even an easily rectified choice.

I don’t think having to make a few choices hurts the game.

dybryd.1358:

AcidicVision.5498:

Nearly all MF gear is offensive. It sacrifices defensive traits.

It sacrifices its primary trait (offensive or defensive) to magic find, and keeps the secondary offensive benefits.

Someone in MF gear has exactly the same offensive bonuses as someone in Knight’s gear — a tank. Nobody buys Knight’s gear because they want to maximize their offensive power.

No one who would buy knight’s gear would buy magic find gear instead, if he buys it for one purpose, like dungeons only.

Anyone who is about doing a task aside from farming, like dungeon clear speed, damage maximization in WvW, in the most efficient way, will NEVER buy MF gear instead.

The point where people seem to get angry, is when the farming part is repositioned to dungeons.

Arenanet might actually have tried to fix that by giving money reward on bosses, so the logical conclusion for the player would be:
Kill the dungeon faster, get more money, because 50% more MF will never generate as much money as killing a boss for 20 silver in 2 instead of 4 minutes.

kRiza krimos.1637:

How do you measure how much contribution someone is making. Perhaps your sluggish movement, or lack of doding skill is contributing less than a guy in MF gear that doesnt get hit that often. Since MF gear got both pwr / pre stats along so its not lacking offensive stats i assume your reffering to defensive contribution.

By nature of your immature post i can only guess that you havent really given any tought to this matter…

It does not matter that a skilled player in green mf gear can outperform an unskilled player in full exotics. What matters is that every single player will always perform worse in MF gear, than he himself could do in “real” gear, hampering the effectiveness of the group for his own personal gain. In any case, this behavior is simply disrespectful to your group, and since we can only suspect that this is the reason for worse performance of an individual (due to the lack of an inspect function), it will always go “unpunished” i.e. those who are negatively affected have no way to reliably track the one responsible.

Thus, I agree that MF gear has no place in dungeons, fractals, wvw or any kind of cooperative activity. It is ok anywhere the player is only responsible for himself, which is true in most of the open world pve we have, and I’d deem it ok to allow it for dynamic events as well, since those rarely pose a challenge for any group anyway.

wintermute.4096:

It does not matter that a skilled player in green mf gear can outperform an unskilled player in full exotics. What matters is that every single player will always perform worse in MF gear, than he himself could do in “real” gear, hampering the effectiveness of the group for his own personal gain.

That’s not even remotely true… The only difference between knight and explorer is toughness vs. mf and in no way impacts my dps. Unless I’m getting downed excessively, then perhaps my mf is hampering the group because I really need more survivability that apparently my skills (both actual skill and profession skills) aren’t providing.

Basically, you complaining about me using mf when I’m not being a detriment to the group is no better than elitists who demand certain builds/gear without even knowing how the player plays his/her toon.

Bruno Sardine.2907:

wintermute.4096:

It does not matter that a skilled player in green mf gear can outperform an unskilled player in full exotics. What matters is that every single player will always perform worse in MF gear, than he himself could do in “real” gear, hampering the effectiveness of the group for his own personal gain.

That’s not even remotely true… The only difference between knight and explorer is toughness vs. mf and in no way impacts my dps. Unless I’m getting downed excessively, then perhaps my mf is hampering the group because I really need more survivability that apparently my skills (both actual skill and profession skills) aren’t providing.

If you argue like that, the opposite would have to say:

Instead of knight gear, use berserker’s gear then, if you do not need the toughness.
Gives more damage than MF.

Magic find is two things:

1) A (small) tax on farming. You need to have the gear, and regularly buy or craft the consumables.
2) An incentive to buy the buff on BL if you want the highest MF you can get.

What it does is that drop tables have to take MF buffs into consideration, so rare drops are rare for those with the buff, and very rare for those without it.

I preferred GW1’s system with no MF. Low drop rates just meant stuff was rare for everyone, not less rare for those who paid the tax.

^^^ Except that berserker only works more effectively the higher your crit rate is…. for an engineer, even if you’re specc’d mostly firearms you have a 42% chance to crit in full exotic knights, berserker, or explorer gear (36% if you use a kit). The bump I get in dps matters if the fight goes on for a very long duration and even then doesn’t shorten the fight by anything noticeable…. So I can choose to be able to farm faster in the long run or have greater returns in the long run. Factoring in DR, returns > faster killing.

You have a 42% crit chance, which is increased to 62% considering buffs. Full berserker gives you 34% increased critical damage, not counting a possible rune set or the weapon, in case you run MF even on that.
I would not say you do not notice any difference Especially if the whole team uses MF the alternative losses are getting huge.

And DR does not apply to the fixed silver drop of dungeon bosses.

Yes, the 42% crit rate and 34% increased dmg only applies if I’m using my rifle which I rarely use as I rotate between kits for various support and dmg purposes (rifle is really more for CC purposes)…. But if I’m using my rifle, after 100 shots the increased crit damage at the 42% rate has basically done the same amount of damage as 14.3 additional regular attacks. The longer the fight, the more noticeable the damage is (assuming your stop-clocking it). If you’re farming the bosses for silver drops (since you added that in as I was responding) this becomes noticeable over a decent stretch of time, yet you’re adding more to the problem of inflating prices rather than meeting demand with items.

Though it is true that if everyone follows this MF route then things slow down, but if people are not downing/dying often and getting awesome loots then who cares if we all have mf and it’s taking a little longer?

Like I said above, have a group MF system based on the highest value of any player + the average of the other players (for groups greater than 3, less than 3 just use highest MF value). Maybe it doesn’t have to work quite like this, but magic find can be a handy personal and party stat if it’s designed well.

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Think about this:
I do not run MF gear, can handle all those mobs and kill them in half the time you do.
Now where does your argument go?

My comments were an example for something to think about is all, not an argument – but could be.

To your statement, I highly doubt it.

To your question, if speed was a concern, then play an FPS and not an MMO.

Comes down to different professions in the end I suppose.
I agree on that party wide MF implementation, especially because I personally fail to see the great increase in drops and do not think at all it is worth replacing actual damage, no matter how low, with that placebo.

Bruno Sardine.2907:

Yes, the 42% crit rate and 34% increased dmg only applies if I’m using my rifle which I rarely use as I rotate between kits for various support and dmg purposes (rifle is really more for CC purposes)…. But if I’m using my rifle, after 100 shots the increased crit damage at the 42% rate has basically done the same amount of damage as 14.3 additional regular attacks. The longer the fight, the more noticeable the damage is (assuming your stop-clocking it). If you’re farming the bosses for silver drops (since you added that in as I was responding) this becomes noticeable over a decent stretch of time, yet you’re adding more to the problem of inflating prices rather than meeting demand with items.

Though it is true that if everyone follows this MF route then things slow down, but if people are not downing/dying often and getting awesome loots then who cares if we all have mf and it’s taking a little longer?

Like I said above, have a group MF system based on the highest value of any player + the average of the other players (for groups greater than 3, less than 3 just use highest MF value). Maybe it doesn’t have to work quite like this, but magic find can be a handy personal and party stat if it’s designed well.

So people in MF gear being flagged for such [you get everyone’s consent] OR MF applies to whole party [share the joy of loot] actually meshes well with your view point.

Now show some support.

I prefer promoting people to play how they want rather than punishing them, especially when it comes to gear decisions. There’s already a pro and con to the mf-stat on the part of the player, so why add more cons to it?

To addendum to this… I also think that a straight average mf calculation doesn’t work. D3 did this originally and it totally killed party play (on top of other mechanisms like the drastic increases in health per party member), so you need to do something “extra” in the group MF calculation or you make the stat just as trivial as the flagging method.

Bruno Sardine.2907:

I prefer promoting people to play how they want rather than punishing them, especially when it comes to gear decisions. There’s already a pro and con to the mf-stat on the part of the player, so why add more cons to it?

There isn’t any more con to be added. The system is already at as bad as it gets, save for another impossible loot table. The compromise improves the system and makes it social. That’s all I care about in a MULTI-PLAYER game.

I agree. I liked it at first, but now I want to be able to complete my build, and this kitten magic find makes me feel like I can never replace my pirate runes without sending myself to the poor house. Get rid of it, it only serves to make the greedy richer and the selfless poorer.

Heinel.6548:

Bruno Sardine.2907:

I prefer promoting people to play how they want rather than punishing them, especially when it comes to gear decisions. There’s already a pro and con to the mf-stat on the part of the player, so why add more cons to it?

There isn’t any more con to be added. The system is already at as bad as it gets, save for another impossible loot table. The compromise improves the system and makes it social. That’s all I care about in a MULTI-PLAYER game.

My comment was in response to what was said above it where if I had to choose between flagging a player for wearing MF or making MF a stat that can have party benefits, I’d take the party benefit route; it would add a pro to MF rather than a con.

In response to your pirate rune comment, that has less to do with MF and more to do with the fact that the rate at which gold drops far exceeds loot drops for mats. If anything, MF serves as a mechanism to provide more supply of mats, thereby deflating the value of them.

AcidicVision.5498:

Osculim.2983:

AcidicVision.5498:

Osculim.2983:

You cannot honestly tell me the ele with the mf gear gonna do the same amount of damage as the ele without the mf gear. Its just not possible.

Yes it is. Maybe the Ele with Magic Find used it in place of a third stat toughness or vitality upgrade because they are better at mitigating their damage, managing their endurance and attunement dancing for defense. So they are still doing as much damage as the Ele without MF, they just didn’t upgrade wasted points in to a trait they didn’t need.

Just something that i like to mention here is say you do swap the 3rd stat say you sacrifice vitality for mf once again you made yourself weaker and easier to kill

Thats the skill part of this game that everyone keeps talking about. If you don’t take damage, or are good enough to limit the damage you take, then you lose nothing by going pwr/pre/mf and neither does your team.

This is what people are trying to get through to you. I can only assume you have come from another MMO where your characters were defined purely by numbers. That’s not how GW2 works.

Look at Magic Find as a reward for skilled players that can use the trait without it affecting their play. If you are good enough to not need that defensive trait, then have some better drops. If you aren’t good enough and are using MF anyways, enjoy the repair bill that negates its benefit.

Sort of how higher level Fractals have better drops for people that take up the challenge.

Once the idea that players who can know how to play reactively and defensively enough to keep themselves alive trumps pure points in toughness/vitality finally sinks in for you then the idea of MF and the games combat system itself, will probably become a lot clearer.

You don’t understand, Magic find isn’t fun, it doesn’t have to do with skill, wouldn’t you rather not be forced to use magic find? Also if you EVER die or get downed, or recieve damage then your whole arguement is thrown out and you could have used the vit,(not to mention crit damage or more damage stats so that arguement is not valid)
the point is MAGIC FIND IS REDUNDANT, so you can sacrafice vit for mf, so can i, MOST PEOPLE CAN SACRAFICE VIT FOR MF AND STILL PRETTY GOOD OR ALMOST AS GOOD and YES we both can not be that much of a hinderence to our team with mf gear (but like i said, mf takes away more damage, crit chance, vit, toughness, crit damage that you could have in place).

THATS THE POINT, IS HAVING A MF STAT ON YOUR ARMOR IS REDUNDANT

Make it a bonus for lvling past 80, it would be VERY slight, and make it once you die you lose your “mf points” and you start back at lvl 80.

Also we can make magic find in guild boosts and the like still exist, also even keep magic find food, im just saying :

When -ANYONE- can equip magic find armor and still do ok, it becomes redundant

I’m going to have to disagree that MF is not fun, I find it very fun to get more/better items than not.

But let me elaborate a bit, I am a reasonably considerate person, I would not personally join a group to do a dungeon with a full set of MF gear on but in the same regard I would not drop a person from the group for their gear choice unless they are just not contributing to the run at all.

The same can be said for any character who spends a majority of the boss fight dead because they stacked all offense and no defense. Magic Find or not, they are hindering the progression.

This is also true of anyone who does not effectively avoid taking damage, I do not care what gear you have, if you cannot avoid the (mostly) blatantly obvious spike damage coming your way, you are not helping.

Lastly, if you want optimal dungeon runs, find a group because if the years of playing other MMOs has taught me anything, it’s that when you pug a dungeon (or raid), expect there to be completely clueless people who will join your group, even with the plethora of information literally at your fingertips.

Please look up the definition of redundant.

The difference between berserkers and explorers is 90ish power and 18% critical damage. The difference between explorers and knights is about 350ish toughness. Knights and explorers have the same power but knights give you like 5 more precision.

I already posted this in another thread, which then got hijacked by a heated discussion between 2 guys who were discussing the difference between using MF gear and not doing so.

Why can’t they just add Magic Find and other such Stats that don’t directly affect the character or his strength, as reward for playing past the point of reaching level 80.

Each level reached afterwards could reward you with 1% magic find, or 1% more Karma from events … more Influence for the guild, more gold, more Exp from Kills or Events ….

There’s plenty of options …

Raithwall.6397:

I already posted this in another thread, which then got hijacked by a heated discussion between 2 guys who were discussing the difference between using MF gear and not doing so.

Why can’t they just add Magic Find and other such Stats that don’t directly affect the character or his strength, as reward for playing past the point of reaching level 80.

Each level reached afterwards could reward you with 1% magic find, or 1% more Karma from events … more Influence for the guild, more gold, more Exp from Kills or Events ….

There’s plenty of options …

It would create an unfair advantage favoring hardcore players who are practically on the game 24/7. Casual players would be left in the dust. Just compare it to casual players and hardcore players in regards to Fractals.

Pfft how about they just add a preview option instead of wasting time removing/reworking a stat a bunch of bad players whine about no doubt if they did do something with MF you people would still find something to whine about.

All that happens is people fail at a dungeon instead of being rational and trying to figure out what happened they blame the MF stat hell they should rename MF to Thief since alot of bad players like to whine about that too and now i wait to see the response i get back from a bunch of disgruntled whiners.

Yeah I’m regretting going full mf eveyday. I hate carrying the extra set of gear, its actually double the cost and work, no to mention, swaping weapons for the MF kililng blow is annoying. I would also like MF , or healinger or condition damage for that matter to show up on the character screen,. It dosen’t make sense to have states that don’t display on the chart.

Yeah, magic find is certainly a lame addition to the game. Basically the group suffers, and you profit. It makes NO sense from the social point of view that the game is supposed to be pushing.

Hickeroar.9734:

Yeah, magic find is certainly a lame addition to the game. Basically the group suffers, and you profit. It makes NO sense from the social point of view that the game is supposed to be pushing.

If group that you are part of is suffering, you suffer too. You make NO sense from logical point of view.

You’re talking in extremes. It is perfectly logical to say that the pros of having a lot more mf outweigh the negative of hindering the group (and yourself). The problem is, that your group ONLY gets the con, and none of the pro.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Hickeroar.9734:

Yeah, magic find is certainly a lame addition to the game. Basically the group suffers, and you profit. It makes NO sense from the social point of view that the game is supposed to be pushing.

If group that you are part of is suffering, you suffer too. You make NO sense from logical point of view.

Incorrect. You just have to be carried by the other four… And you get more money out of being unwise…

Hickeroar.9734:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Hickeroar.9734:

Yeah, magic find is certainly a lame addition to the game. Basically the group suffers, and you profit. It makes NO sense from the social point of view that the game is supposed to be pushing.

If group that you are part of is suffering, you suffer too. You make NO sense from logical point of view.

Incorrect. You just have to be carried by the other four… And you get more money out of being unwise…

Bad player not wearing MF gear also has to be carried by rest of group.
I would like to know if you are even aware of a tiny difference MF makes, IF it makes any since its still RNG in the end…yet you sound like that guy with MF gear is getting rich while rest of group is only suffering and carrying extra weight.
Stop with drama PLEASE!

kRiza krimos.1637:

Hickeroar.9734:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Hickeroar.9734:

Yeah, magic find is certainly a lame addition to the game. Basically the group suffers, and you profit. It makes NO sense from the social point of view that the game is supposed to be pushing.

If group that you are part of is suffering, you suffer too. You make NO sense from logical point of view.

Incorrect. You just have to be carried by the other four… And you get more money out of being unwise…

Bad player not wearing MF gear also has to be carried by rest of group.
I would like to know if you are even aware of a tiny difference MF makes, IF it makes any since its still RNG in the end…yet you sound like that guy with MF gear is getting rich while rest of group is only suffering and carrying extra weight.
Stop with drama PLEASE!

You miss an entire THIRD of your stat potential if you stack magic find gear and inserts. And it will increase your drops dramatically. I ran with ~110% MF for about a week or so, and i got WAY more rare drops. I know people with full sets who clear 200%, and even higher when banner and food boosted.

1/3 of your stats missing is basically like going back to lvl 80 blues, instead of lvl 80 exotics. Might even be worse than that… Do the math…

Mechanix.5719:

Pfft how about they just add a preview option instead of wasting time removing/reworking a stat a bunch of bad players whine about no doubt if they did do something with MF you people would still find something to whine about.

All that happens is people fail at a dungeon instead of being rational and trying to figure out what happened they blame the MF stat hell they should rename MF to Thief since alot of bad players like to whine about that too and now i wait to see the response i get back from a bunch of disgruntled whiners.

Whos complaining? And whos failing dungeons because of mf?

You need to read our posts before resorting to being rude, first of all you completely missed the point any player can slap on mf gear and do just fine, THATS THE POINT if any player can slap full mf gear on and do just fine in a dungeon or outside in the world then it makes the whole point of mf gear useless.

And to the person that said magic find gear is fun because they like finding better loot, that doesn’t make sence, everyone likes finding good loot, and ANYONE can slap on mf gear so if anyone can use mf gear and get better results theirs no point in having it.

*edit: its funny the people defending magic find items are proving my point that magic find is useless, their saying how it doesn’t make a noticable difference running with magic find in a dungeon, and it doesn’t really but it does take away options to your build customization, anyone can spec all mf gear and run a dungeon, and a good player will still do fine,
which is my point, just eliminate magic find so all of us experinced players that want loot arnt pigeonholed into using just m.f gear. I hate i feal forced to use magic find stat gear when i could have more customization of a 3rd stat, i mean if everyone uses magic find then its the same as no one wearing it in a way.

Hickeroar.9734:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Hickeroar.9734:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Hickeroar.9734:

Yeah, magic find is certainly a lame addition to the game. Basically the group suffers, and you profit. It makes NO sense from the social point of view that the game is supposed to be pushing.

If group that you are part of is suffering, you suffer too. You make NO sense from logical point of view.

Incorrect. You just have to be carried by the other four… And you get more money out of being unwise…

Bad player not wearing MF gear also has to be carried by rest of group.
I would like to know if you are even aware of a tiny difference MF makes, IF it makes any since its still RNG in the end…yet you sound like that guy with MF gear is getting rich while rest of group is only suffering and carrying extra weight.
Stop with drama PLEASE!

You miss an entire THIRD of your stat potential if you stack magic find gear and inserts. And it will increase your drops dramatically. I ran with ~110% MF for about a week or so, and i got WAY more rare drops. I know people with full sets who clear 200%, and even higher when banner and food boosted.

1/3 of your stats missing is basically like going back to lvl 80 blues, instead of lvl 80 exotics. Might even be worse than that… Do the math…

Same people with 200% that are all over forums complaining they aint getting lewtz?
MF gear has almost same offensive numbers as other pow/pre items, beside scroll up few posts and look at numbers people posted…

Technically it doesn’t have the same stats as those that have power as the primary. Explorers has about 90 less power than Berserkers.

Blissified.8369:

You need to read our posts before resorting to being rude, first of all you completely missed the point any player can slap on mf gear and do just fine, THATS THE POINT if any player can slap full mf gear on and do just fine in a dungeon or outside in the world then it makes the whole point of mf gear useless.

You’re missing the point. MF gear increases the odds of getting rarer drops. Whether you do better or not in dungeons is irrelevant. Just because everyone can wear MF gear does not make it useless. Everyone can wear power gear so I guess by your logic that it must be useless?

Blissified.8369:

And to the person that said magic find gear is fun because they like finding better loot, that doesn’t make sence, everyone likes finding good loot, and ANYONE can slap on mf gear so if anyone can use mf gear and get better results theirs no point in having it.

Fun is subjective and there’s varying degrees. Someone can have fun winning $1000 and even more fun winning $1,000,000. Finding good loot is fun but the chance of finding better loot is more fun.

Once again, your logic that if everyone can equip MF must mean its useless is flawed.

Blissified.8369:

*edit: its funny the people defending magic find items are proving my point that magic find is useless, their saying how it doesn’t make a noticable difference running with magic find in a dungeon, and it doesn’t really but it does take away options to your build customization, anyone can spec all mf gear and run a dungeon, and a good player will still do fine,
which is my point, just eliminate magic find so all of us experinced players that want loot arnt pigeonholed into using just m.f gear. I hate i feal forced to use magic find stat gear when i could have more customization of a 3rd stat, i mean if everyone uses magic find then its the same as no one wearing it in a way.

If you believe MF doesn’t do anything then why do you care? If you know it doesn’t do anything then why do you feel you’re obligated to wear it?

I’m at Fractal scale 26. When I do my scale 10 daily I switch to MF gear because it’s easy enough that I don’t need to be optimized. Sometimes I catch crap for it.

About a week ago I was doing the level 10 daily with pugs who were at scale 10. Every level we stopped for a minute and I explained the new scale 10 mechanics to them. I think I fell twice throughout the run, less than everyone except the guardian (I’m a warrior). Then after the Maw, someone calls me selfish for using MF, another person chimed in with ‘yep’. I think it’s pure crap that people act like this. I held my own, supported the team with Shouts and probably rezzed the 2nd most. Haters gonna hate.

Ayrilana.1396:

Blissified.8369:

You need to read our posts before resorting to being rude, first of all you completely missed the point any player can slap on mf gear and do just fine, THATS THE POINT if any player can slap full mf gear on and do just fine in a dungeon or outside in the world then it makes the whole point of mf gear useless.

You’re missing the point. MF gear increases the odds of getting rarer drops. Whether you do better or not in dungeons is irrelevant. Just because everyone can wear MF gear does not make it useless. Everyone can wear power gear so I guess by your logic that it must be useless?

Blissified.8369:

And to the person that said magic find gear is fun because they like finding better loot, that doesn’t make sence, everyone likes finding good loot, and ANYONE can slap on mf gear so if anyone can use mf gear and get better results theirs no point in having it.

Fun is subjective and there’s varying degrees. Someone can have fun winning $1000 and even more fun winning $1,000,000. Finding good loot is fun but the chance of finding better loot is more fun.

Once again, your logic that if everyone can equip MF must mean its useless is flawed.

Blissified.8369:

*edit: its funny the people defending magic find items are proving my point that magic find is useless, their saying how it doesn’t make a noticable difference running with magic find in a dungeon, and it doesn’t really but it does take away options to your build customization, anyone can spec all mf gear and run a dungeon, and a good player will still do fine,
which is my point, just eliminate magic find so all of us experinced players that want loot arnt pigeonholed into using just m.f gear. I hate i feal forced to use magic find stat gear when i could have more customization of a 3rd stat, i mean if everyone uses magic find then its the same as no one wearing it in a way.

If you believe MF doesn’t do anything then why do you care? If you know it doesn’t do anything then why do you feel you’re obligated to wear it?

What are you talking about? I wear it because i have to to get maximum drops?

I’m saying if everyones running around in magic find, you might as well just nullify it.

Heres a simple example, say minimum wage is 10 dollars, if i made a wish that minimum wage went changed to 40 dollars, eventually it would be the same as 10

Just like your starting to see now, all the experinced players are running around in magic find, why not just up the droprates a bit and vito gear based magic find.

Everyone i know who is a experinced dedicated gw2 gamer runs magic find most of the time, if i dont use my magic find gear then i get less then everyone els does so i feal like i have to just to get the normal drops that all my skill equivelent counter-parts are.

*EDIT to your “power gear” comparison power is not needed by every build, a build can do fine in the game with NO power gear, some builds use a lot of power some use non. AS MUCH POWER AS POSSIBLE ISNT ALWAYS THE BEST. IF SOMEONES HOARDING POWER, THEIR CREATING THEIR PLAYSTYLE, MF ISNT A PLAY STYLE ITS BORING.

With magic find you want as much as possible no matter what class no matter what playstyle no matter what build.

Thats a poor comparison as you don’t NEED to HOARD AS MUCH POWER AS POSSIBLE to be succsessful ALSO PEOPLE DONT HOARD POWER AND NEGLECT ATTRIBUTES THAT THEY ACTUALLY NEED.

I have a full MF set alongside my “real” gear set. But I never wear it for two reasons :

The first is in my experience I get pretty much the same loot with or without MF.

The second reason is I made a lot of efforts to get my actual main set, and if I don’t wear in dungeons or high levels zones…then why the hell did I farm it in the first place ? So I may get more gear that I won’t wear ?

Yes I understand it is supposed to make me more rich but I’m already geared best in slot…what is the point of all this farming in the long run ?

( I am not trying to be dismissive of other people’s point of view, this is purely my perspective on this).

Heck even Diablo 3 is getting rid of magic find gear, The diablo series is what fricken invented magic find gear.

Theirs should be other ways to get magic find boosts other then as an armor stat, as anyone can just kitten up a full cookie cutter mf gear set and completely nullifies any variety or “character” on their toons.

Why cant we have other ways to stack magic find? or since everyones basicly at the same magic find rate, we could just make that the defualt drop rate and get rid of mf gear. (Or we could up drop rates a bit and make it so theirs special rare items that give temp mf boosts, i like this idea lot, make these items rare though ide prefer it to be as a drop from a major boss or from doing somthing spectacular.

I got a GREAT IDEA skill points should be able to be traded for mf potions 20 skillpoints for 10 minor, 15 for major, 25 for superuior, 40 for ultra.

EDIT: How about “prestiege levels” were you can lvl past 80, you can see people at lvl 120 and such which doenst add stats at all, but adds a small chance to gain mf, once the player dies ONCE their prestiege lvl goes back to 80. I actually like this idea the best!, could make things pretty interesting, almost sort of a dark soulsy vibe were you have some kitten to lose when you die!

’kay look

It’s obvious GW is trying to put less emphasis on the primary gear grind. To do that they have to focus on sidegrades. MF is a sidegrade system.

I love MF. It’s a way to boost my loot compared to those who don’t know how to play/dodge/kite. I run it all the time except when I need to put on my serious-face in WvW. Anyway I’m contributing more in dungeons than the idiot elementalist that’s always down and probably has double-tap evade disabled for all anyone knows.

Blissified.8369:

What are you talking about? I wear it because i have to to get maximum drops?

It doesn’t maximize the quantity of loot but the rarity. You equip MF to boost the chances of getting rarer loot.

Blissified.8369:

I’m saying if everyones running around in magic find, you might as well just nullify it.

No for the reasons I kept giving in previous posts.

Blissified.8369:

Heres a simple example, say minimum wage is 10 dollars, if i made a wish that minimum wage went changed to 40 dollars, eventually it would be the same as 10

Not the same. Your example only applies if drops rates were raised altogether without regard to MF. MF is like getting paid beyond minimum wage. Minimum wage is a government standard that is the minimum that workers can be paid. The drop rates the devs set are the minimum drop rates. MF gear boosts this. Wearing MF gear is optional just like it is optional to get paid more than minimum wage.

Blissified.8369:

Just like your starting to see now, all the experinced players are running around in magic find, why not just up the droprates a bit and vito gear based magic find.

Everyone i know who is a experinced dedicated gw2 gamer runs magic find most of the time, if i dont use my magic find gear then i get less then everyone els does so i feal like i have to just to get the normal drops that all my skill equivelent counter-parts are.

Once again it boosts your chances at rarer loot and not the quantity. So you want MF gear to apply equally to everyone because you don’t like to wear it but want the advantages that it provides?

Blissified.8369:

*EDIT to your “power gear” comparison power is not needed by every class, a class can do fine in the game with NO power gear, some builds use a lot of power some use non.

With magic find you want as much as possible no matter what class no matter what playstyle no matter what build.

Thats a poor comparison as you don’t NEED to HOARD AS MUCH POWER AS POSSIBLE to be succsessful ALSO PEOPLE DONT HOARD POWER AND NEGLECT ATTRIBUTES THAT THEY ACTUALLY NEED.

Power was just an example. It applies to any stats. Everyone is forced to increase damage so they can equally contribute. Why not just make damage percentage based rather than by stats? That is how I’m interpreting your statement.

A lot of people perform better with MF gear than those who are geared to the max. Currently nobody has shown what the overall difference is between those with MF and those without. For all we know, there may be a minimal difference that it doesn’t matter. It could also be the opposite.

ITT: people mad they can’t get the best stats AND get the good drops they feel entitled to

that’s all

Item drops have to go.

Item drops promote players to not be their best they can be, hinder their teamates which is greedy and not cool, item drops needs to be gone from mmos, just make grind based with no item drops and it would be basicly the same thing as having item drops. Don’t think about it. I do not want to take the gold farm route, therefore no others players should be allowed to do so. I also hate spell check.

First, I need to admit that I’m NOT a power gamer. I don’t have a level 80 yet (but I’m having fun with all 7 of my characters), and I doubt I’ll ever get a legendary anything.

That all said…

Magic Find gear is, to me, an odd thing to deal with. My views on it differ if I’m playing solo or with others.

Solo? By putting on MF gear instead of my best, I’m trading some of my power for better drops. I get better rewards for a slightly tougher challenge. I like that, though I’m not sure that the risk/reward ratio is correct.

With others? With my best gear on, I’m giving 100% to the team. If I put on MF gear, I give less than my best, but get a better reward for it. That… seems REALLY backwards to me. What’s worse is that if a second player on the team also has a set of MF gear but stays with his best, he’s still giving 100%, and getting LESS reward than I am for it. That doesn’t seem right at all.

I’m not going to say Magic Find needs to go, or needs to be kept. I will say that I don’t like it the way it is now, and I’d like to see something better take its place. I’m open to ideas on what that “something better” could be.