Guild Wars 2

You enjoy raiding. You raced to the end, got the best gear you needed . . . stopped . . . and realized that was that.

There’s nothing wrong with that. I love raiding too. But . . . I’m also tired of pretending raiding matters. It doesn’t and never has.

Find a game that has a great end game and have a blast.

You’ll find a lot of us were hardcore raiders for years, and actually enjoy being able to play a game without having to deal with it.

Shocking I know.

GW2 is a different endgame than say, WoW. You don’t have to grind out the gear and have a defined set of progression that you get there in arena seasons or raid tiers. (And sorry for using WoW as an example but it is just the only other MMO I have a large amount of experience playing.) There is tons of stuff to do at level 80, but not everyone is going to want/enjoy doing all of those things.

I personally love WvsW, at least in even matches and it it one of the main reasons I enjoy this game as much as I do. I dislike completely dominating other servers and I dislike being pushed off the map, but those even matches can be absolutely epic. I don’t need rewards or to win, just give me a good match I’m happy. That’s just me, however. That doesn’t mean everything else will enjoy the same as I do.

The game is what you want it to be, and if you don’t like it, maybe it isn’t the game for you. That isn’t a bad thing, there are plenty of people that dislike the game and plenty of people that absolutely love the game. It is all a matter of preference, and if you want all those things you listed there have to be games out there that provide the type of end-game you’re looking for. You can always take a break for a while too. No sub means you’re not losing any money by not playing for a while and coming back later.

spvp is better than what any other mmo out there have, and say it not fun for You as clearly other do find it fun.

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

Just short of 500 hours since headstart personally. 2 level 80’s and working on my third. One character at 100% completion and the next is close at 91% completed. 7 character slots ready to level.

For me, each class plays so differently and requires different tactics that I felt like playing through each class is almost an entirely new game, it is certainly a new experience. Things that were a challenge on one class are easy on another and vice versa.

I find this game has great replayedness and will be playing for a very long time.

Halloween patch coming up, new events, new jumping puzzles and new mini dungeons. Free. I am excited.

As a pve only player I have gave up the game I ran out of stuff to do and I like my guardian the best and don’t feel like running an alt through the same content im bored of.
-I have my skins ( most dungeon)
-I have seen 75%ish of the world ( dont care to see more, very similar)
-dungeons dont give me any wanted rewards anymore , not fun enough to run for the hell of it ( pretty easy and lots of bosses feel every similar)
-world events are boring easy and unrewarding
-legendaries are grindfests which I could careless about ( all they mean is u sunk 200 hours of your time into an item, with no challenge)
-No point to crafting when there are no rare recipes/ or better stated items to provide people
-only fluff people suggest is just that fluff(ie collect dyes, make tons of gold, get titles)

ps on a side note titles could be neat if there was a challegning means of obtaining them, like raid titles in wow

Dynamite try runes of magic, or Aion, they both sound like more your kinda game then GW2, all there is to do “end game” is grind for gear on “end game content”

and BlackPaw: yeah I suspect either somebody is full of something brown and smelly or they bought gold…..

One day, players will lose their love affair with the marketing slogan of “no gear grind” when they realize just how massive of a gear grind it is…to get different looking gear. Not exactly much more powerful…but looks better!

And, if they’re content with their gear, to sit in their same gear for about 2 years witnessing little changes in their appearance, and next to zero character development. While they brag about their servers zerg beating another servers zerg. So they can get more tokens to get another different looking set of armor! And, most of the benefits granted via WvW? Most PvE, and if we’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of “end game” is pointless since the majority are already “capped” it becomes pointless.

PvE is soulless because it lacks character progression. Again, numerous hours spent towards getting gear that just looks different.

Am I advocating gear progression? Maybe. Mainly, I want actual character progression (new abilities, stronger recipes, new something beyond cosmetic/superficial). Legendary weapons, exotic armor, etc as it is now, means absolutely nothing beyond the number of hours you put into the game. Zero.

The interesting part of it all is that they tried to keep everyone on the equal playing field for WvW…with some variations. When, this should be the main venue to build a name as being the most powerful warrior/ele/etc. And, then sPvP should be the one that is equal…oh, it is. The fact that they made everyone equal, and then further equalized it is beyond me. The sPvP system, with its flaws, is essentially what people have been asking for for years.

sPvP progresses the player. PvE/WvW should progress the character/player.

DJSkittles.7196:

Honestly, This may sound very immature and brunt of me, but if your unable to find a way to have fun in WvW, than your just a dumb kitten You can say what you want, but I have had my fair share of experiences in WvW and I have always found a way to have fun.

The problem with this is that you assume that there is any point to WvW — as if any of it actually matters. I rarely play first person shooters — for the same reason as to why I don’t really enjoy WvW.

I play(ed) MMORPGs because I liked watching my character progress in power. For people like myself the leveling from 1-80 seemed natural — we progressed. At 80, we obtained essentially the last gear we will ever need until the next expansion (and maybe not even then). No longer was character progression the goal. And, at level 80 with “max” gear — that is my primary issue. I have no meaningful goals. There is nothing that will provide me an opportunity to truly continue my characters progress. I could go take/lose/take/lose the same keep in WvW, but for what? Predominantly PvE bonuses…that helps new players/alts more than anyone I’m with? Craft gear that literally everyone has the ability to craft?

It is not entirely about the “gear grind” that I miss (because, if that were the case, GW2 provides a very nice gear grind). I miss the character progression (of which, GW2 lacks). I want my character to continue to grow in strength/power/speed/abilities/etc. Not be stuck at a “dead end job,” attacking the same keep door, with the same people day after day. There is nothing special about the characters — they become lifeless. Just because I may have bought a new outfit for work doesn’t mean my job/life sucks any less.

Cosmetic changes are ridiculous motivators. It is time, and not prestige. Yet, even if it required a 100 man raid to defeat something that offered roughly the same stats that they had a newly minted 80…the drive is not nearly as strong. All that work for such little gain.

I will stay informed as to the latest happenings of GW2, but I cannot find enjoyment in its current form. Actually, I can’t find much enjoyment in any MMORPG as it is currently.

Simonic I feel exactly the same way you do.

To me, MMOs are about progressing your character and with that, usually comes with grind. Of course, forcing the players to grind for days on end is bad, but I feel that instead of trying to balance out the grind, Anet just scrapped it and place it all as end game. So instead of semi-grinding on the side of the story, you get a wall of grind at the end (optional, I know).
If you love cosmetic changes then that is something to work for, but what if you don’t?

I’m still roaming around Orr doing DE and cleansing temples but I can only do that for so long. I love PvP, but I got bored of WvW very quickly.

I expect someone to say “go play something else if you like the carrot on a stick” and to those, I say go play The Sims.

This is a game for casuals. What do you expect of a game with no subscription? I suggest you try WoW, it has a subscription and still has close to 10million players. If GW2 had a subscription, i doubt it would have even 500k players with it’s abomination of an endgame.

Re-imagined my kitten

Ambrosiaa.6054:

This is a game for casuals. What do you expect of a game with no subscription? I suggest you try WoW, it has a subscription and still has close to 10million players. If GW2 had a subscription, i doubt it would have even 500k players with it’s abomination of an endgame.

Re-imagined my kitten

Why is it an abomination of an endgame.

If it’s not what you like that is all well and good. “I don’t like the way the endgame plays, because of x y and z” would have been constructive and intelligent. Instead your just slandering it.

I personally like the way the end-game plays.

I played WoW for 5 years, I raided throughout my time in WoW, and I stopped playing when I realised the most fun I ever had in WoW was when I first got it at launch and spent my time doing things that weren’t based around progression.

I had gone from… traveling around, sky diving off of tall things (pre-flying mounts), playing with engineering gadgets, riding across deserts as 3 gnomes on mechanostriders seeing the horde lands we hadn’t discovered to…

Standing in Dalaran, instantly tele-porting to dungeons, and occasionally going afk whilst my flight path took me to a daily spot.

I left MMO’s for a bit, with a couple of excursions into LoTRO and Aion, then eventually got into SWO:TOR. I enjoyed most of my story missions, and leveled 2 characters to max in the space of 3 months. I quit again, when I realised I was just sat on my capital ship, heading to dungeons and getting my ship to daily locations. (Also got all the holocrons including the one on the capital ship (which was great fun to work out with my guild).

Roll around to GW2. I can go out and do anything I like at max level. Which includes pointless exploration into random places(and those random places exist, found the secret jumping puzzle in AC explorable?) And I still feel like I’m gaining things for doing whatever I like. GW2 end-game isn’t lacking, it delivers everything I want from it.

Pants.8315:

Ambrosiaa.6054:

This is a game for casuals. What do you expect of a game with no subscription? I suggest you try WoW, it has a subscription and still has close to 10million players. If GW2 had a subscription, i doubt it would have even 500k players with it’s abomination of an endgame.

Re-imagined my kitten

Why is it an abomination of an endgame.

If it’s not what you like that is all well and good. “I don’t like the way the endgame plays, because of x y and z” would have been constructive and intelligent. Instead your just slandering it.

I personally like the way the end-game plays.

I played WoW for 5 years, I raided throughout my time in WoW, and I stopped playing when I realised the most fun I ever had in WoW was when I first got it at launch and spent my time doing things that weren’t based around progression.

I had gone from… traveling around, sky diving off of tall things (pre-flying mounts), playing with engineering gadgets, riding across deserts as 3 gnomes on mechanostriders seeing the horde lands we hadn’t discovered to…

Standing in Dalaran, instantly tele-porting to dungeons, and occasionally going afk whilst my flight path took me to a daily spot.

I left MMO’s for a bit, with a couple of excursions into LoTRO and Aion, then eventually got into SWO:TOR. I enjoyed most of my story missions, and leveled 2 characters to max in the space of 3 months. I quit again, when I realised I was just sat on my capital ship, heading to dungeons and getting my ship to daily locations. (Also got all the holocrons including the one on the capital ship (which was great fun to work out with my guild).

Roll around to GW2. I can go out and do anything I like at max level. Which includes pointless exploration into random places(and those random places exist, found the secret jumping puzzle in AC explorable?) And I still feel like I’m gaining things for doing whatever I like. GW2 end-game isn’t lacking, it delivers everything I want from it.

The fact that you could spend 5 years on WoW already says something. The progression it offers is great and is what keeps people playing.

I cannot think of a single kitten thing to do other than WvW right now. I have full exotics, 100% map completion, and i have done all dungeons. And i have only played for 300hours so far. What the hell is 300hours compared to 5 years?

Simonic.2609:

Cosmetic changes are ridiculous motivators. It is time, and not prestige. Yet, even if it required a 100 man raid to defeat something that offered roughly the same stats that they had a newly minted 80…the drive is not nearly as strong. All that work for such little gain.

I will stay informed as to the latest happenings of GW2, but I cannot find enjoyment in its current form. Actually, I can’t find much enjoyment in any MMORPG as it is currently.

Emphasis mine.

It’s a game, bro. There shouldn’t be any work involved. It’s a GAME. It’s not a JOB.

You’re not going to find much enjoyment in any MMO. It sounds like you actually don’t much enjoy putting your nose to the grindstone just for gear, but that you enjoy receiving it.. eventually you’ll come to realize that the ease of getting exotics in GW2 means all the WORK in GW2 is gone, there is no work to be done unless you decide you want to look a specific way.
Because it’s a GAME, not a JOB, and work has no place in a game.

If you don’t enjoy WvW.. that’s not my fault. It’s a lot of fun. It’s the best PvP since DAoC, but GW2 is overall much better than DAoC in most every way. WvW is a ton of fun. Who cares about the bonuses, it’s about winning.. it’s not about WHAT you win, but just winning itself. Competing.

Sure, DAoC has Realm Ranks and abilities, things you’d gain in PvP, but well.. that’s why GW2 doesn’t really. Because it’s broken. Once you add ‘endless’ character progression via tiered gear behind timesinks or timesink grinds for new abilities.. once you do that, you’ve broken your game. People with the most free time will be the ones who get all that time-consuming WORK done to grind their better gear out, and then they’re untouchable in PvP.

Mudflation, and unbalanced PvP thanks to a gulf of gear disparity, take hold. WvW sucks because it doesn’t matter how well you play, all that matters is if you’ve spent enough time to get good enough gear (compared to now, where the difference between a green and a gold is actually not all that much and golds are easy enough to acquire that it’s pretty irrelevant).

Ambrosiaa.6054:

This is a game for casuals. What do you expect of a game with no subscription? I suggest you try WoW, it has a subscription and still has close to 10million players. If GW2 had a subscription, i doubt it would have even 500k players with it’s abomination of an endgame.

Re-imagined my kitten

Go play Progress Quest, it’ll have the endgame you’re after I think. GW2’s endgame is the best of any MMO I’ve played since I quit DAoC all those years ago.

Dear OP, let me summarise your initial post: You don’t enjoy this game and therefore you think this game doesn’t have longevity.

My response: Just because you don’t like the content, doesn’t mean there isn’t any. When did you get the idea that because you can’t see it that the rest of the world must think the same? I enjoy this game. I have over 300 hours of gameplay so far and still haven’t done everything I want to do and I do enjoy WvW (even though I didn’t expect I would).

I agree that sPvP isn’t that good at the moment but more is coming and there’s plenty I do like in this game. I agree with others that you rushed by too quickly and just missed most of the content, either because you didn’t see it or didn’t like it.

Let me just say it: This is not the game for you…and you do not represent me nor many other players.

Ambrosiaa.6054:

The fact that you could spend 5 years on WoW already says something. The progression it offers is great and is what keeps people playing.

I cannot think of a single kitten thing to do other than WvW right now. I have full exotics, 100% map completion, and i have done all dungeons. And i have only played for 300hours so far. What the hell is 300hours compared to 5 years?

Fair point.

However, that wasn’t really the reason I bought WoW into the argument. I’ll probably play this game for an equal amount of time as well if it continues to expand in the same way as the original game did. (And I won’t be paying £7 a month). It wasn’t really meant to be a comparison of the games either, as I have enjoyed playing both (and I don’t see why liking one means I have to hate another).

I used it as an example to illustrate what I enjoy about the endgame in guild wars 2, and why I am glad it is different as it promotes me doing all the things I stopped doing in other MMO’s because they didn’t.

It was also an example of explaining what I like using evidence to back up my opinions, as opposed to just saying ‘Guild Wars 2 endgame is awesome’.

Dynamite.6584:

I’m a semi-casual player.

I’m a semi-casual player. I have all my character slots full, and they range in level from 14 to 23 IIRC. I have probably been averaging more than 2 hours a day.

Dynamite.6584:

How about rolling another character? There isn’t much point to that…. all the characters can do essentially the same thing with varying effectiveness. So why roll a Thief when a Ranger can do many of the same things.

Why eat different kinds of food if they all provide nutrients? For variety. For life experience. For enjoyment.

Even within a single class there are many ways to play. The mechanics and the feel of playing a Thief are very different from playing a Ranger. I actually didn’t like Thief at first because of the initiative mechanic and wanting to spam all my powers, but now I find it more fun and active than my Ranger.

You and I are polar opposites in terms of how we approach a game. It will not surprise me at all if I buy new character slots to play the other classes in PvE before I ever get around to trying PvP.

“This game is not about the destination, but the journey.”

True. I loved the journey. But it was just too kitten short for an MMO and there is no destination besides hitting a brick wall at 80, which happened in a month. I’ve NEVER hit max lvl in a MMO in a month.

The game will not be shutting down any time soon, it’s free once you buy it so that will keep it alive, However if the game had a sub, it would last about as long as SWToR did before going f2p for many of the same reasons.

I can’t say I agree with everything the OP said but I do agree that this game lacks a reason to keep playing after 80. Especially if PvP isn’t your thing.

There is no reason to run dungeons and no easy way to do so. There is also no questing structure or rewards worth striving for. Once you’ve crafted your exotics your pretty much done with the game.

For 60$ I can live with this but I have to admit I hoped this would be a game that would keep me interested for a much longer period of time.

At least I can come back if and when they decide to add something to do besides leveling. For that I am indeed thankful. Right now however, at least for me, the longevity of this game is about that of a single player game.

My advice? Add loot (not to the store but rather to the game), add quests, add rewards, add group finders. Solo dungeons with incentives, world chat announcements for events, more “group” events, more economical travel. All in all just add things to do after lvl 80 for people who don’t PvP.

Cortechs.3265:

Ambrosiaa.6054:

The fact that you could spend 5 years on WoW already says something. The progression it offers is great and is what keeps people playing.

I cannot think of a single kitten thing to do other than WvW right now. I have full exotics, 100% map completion, and i have done all dungeons. And i have only played for 300hours so far. What the hell is 300hours compared to 5 years?

I could only make it 1 and 1/2 months into vanilla WoW before I uninstalled it and never touched it again. Rift and TOR I would guess made it less than a month, maybe a tad over.

You see, you can spend 5 years in those Raiding games. People like you can spend years in those raiding games. Some of us hate them and think those end games are complete trash. In my opinion, those “End Games” offer nothing, zero, zilch. I have been waiting on a raid-less (i.e. not boring, tedious, vomitous) AAA MMO; and I’m glad it is here.

I have been gaming since the Atari 2600 days. I understand how gaming is fun, and don’t need “rewards” constantly while I’m playing to tell me that what I am doing actually is fun. If a game is truly fun, you don’t need any of that crap. I have played Quake mods for YEARS that had zero progression. I am a real gamer, and I think GW2 is attracting people who enjoy games; while WoW attracts those who are sugar addicts.

Want a cookie? your reply is condescending and frankly makes you look worse than the WoW “sugar addicts” you hate so much.

Cortechs.3265:

Ambrosiaa.6054:

The fact that you could spend 5 years on WoW already says something. The progression it offers is great and is what keeps people playing.

I cannot think of a single kitten thing to do other than WvW right now. I have full exotics, 100% map completion, and i have done all dungeons. And i have only played for 300hours so far. What the hell is 300hours compared to 5 years?

I could only make it 1 and 1/2 months into vanilla WoW before I uninstalled it and never touched it again. Rift and TOR I would guess made it less than a month, maybe a tad over.

You see, you can spend 5 years in those Raiding games. People like you can spend years in those raiding games. Some of us hate them and think those end games are complete trash. In my opinion, those “End Games” offer nothing, zero, zilch. I have been waiting on a raid-less (i.e. not boring, tedious, vomitous) AAA MMO; and I’m glad it is here.

I have been gaming since the Atari 2600 days. I understand how gaming is fun, and don’t need “rewards” constantly while I’m playing to tell me that what I am doing actually is fun. If a game is truly fun, you don’t need any of that crap. I have played Quake mods for YEARS that had zero progression. I am a real gamer, and I think GW2 is attracting people who enjoy games; while WoW attracts those who are sugar addicts.

Hate and stereotyping people is a bit angsty imho. I’ve been playing since Pong as well but I played WoW for 3 years and loved it. I loved quake as well. Sometimes its just about enjoying what you enjoy without peeing in other peoples porridge.

EXAR.7963:

Hate and stereotyping people is a bit angsty imho. I’ve been playing since Pong as well but I played WoW for 3 years and loved it. I loved quake as well. Sometimes its just about enjoying what you enjoy without peeing in other peoples porridge.

Stereotyping people? That is what the entire basis of a raiding end game design is based on. People chasing the carrot. I am simply explaining that some of us are not carrot chasers. How many posts are we going to see complaining about the end game that I enjoy? The one post I make against the end game they enjoy is suddenly taboo?

Typical.

Cortechs.3265:

EXAR.7963:

Hate and stereotyping people is a bit angsty imho. I’ve been playing since Pong as well but I played WoW for 3 years and loved it. I loved quake as well. Sometimes its just about enjoying what you enjoy without peeing in other peoples porridge.

Stereotyping people? That is what the entire basis of a raiding end game design is based on. People chasing the carrot. I am simply explaining that some of us are not carrot chasers. How many posts are we going to see complaining about the end game that I enjoy? The one post I make against the end game they enjoy is suddenly taboo?

Typical.

Calling yourself a “real gamer” while at the same time implying the person you were replying to is not, and calling them “sugar addict” for enjoying a game you did not is not stereotyping? You sir win the superiority complex prize of the month.

I don’t remember raiding in WoW being mandatory. Don’t want to do it? Don’t do it. I don’t see why WoW style endgame cannot fit into GW2. Why do you care if another guy has better armor than you? He earned it. You can earn it too. Don’t want to earn it? Then why do you care in the first place, or do you just want gear handed to you on a plate?. PvP is completely separate anyways, no balancing issues to deal with. I remember a joke in the early 2000’s about Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” program: " ‘No Child Left Behind’ works by not letting anyone get ahead". I feel like that quote is appropriate here.

Here is a little guide on how to get neverending longevity.

2000+ hours of PvE at lvl 80
- Get all exotics sets available to each of your characters (aka 1 berzerker, 1 knight, etc).
Every character needs at least 3 sets of armors in order to play all of its builds at the maximum efficiency, let alone weapons and jewels.
This should take minimum 300 hours per character.
- Do all dungeons on all paths (33 different ones), per character, per build.
Every time is different, especially if you run different builds/classes.
This should cover 500 hours at least, without having you do the same thing.
- Discover all the dynamic events and all their chains, including the hidden events.
This is very entertaining, shows you the huge depth of the DE system, and rewards you another 500 hours of fun.
- Get all the skins you like on every character you have.
Should take 10-100+ hours.
- Get 100% map completion. 100-200 hours prolly, depending on the state of WvW.
- Do all the 12+ raid bosses. Should take a dozen of hours.
- Enjoy leveling your crafting skills at 400.
This can take around 100 hours per crafting profession.

Assuming you like at least 3 professions, that’s a minimum of 2000 hours of gameplay.
That’s 5 hours a day for one whole year.

“But I don’t like any of those”

That’s your problem.
Not GW2’s. Not the community’s. Not the forum’s. Not Anet’s.
This offers 2000 hours worth of fun WITHOUT considering any PvP.
And it’s just a launch release.
If you don’t like any of this, then it’s not the game for you.

@Red Falcon:
With the exception of “skins”, you can do EXACTLY the same thing in WoW. Explore the world, find all armors for all possible builds of all of your chars, do all the dungeons. Above that, you can: collect mounts and pets, get reputation with factions, and more. Is it necessarily fun? No. GW2 way of doing it isn’t either.

lacrimstein.5603:

I don’t remember raiding in WoW being mandatory. Don’t want to do it? Don’t do it. I don’t see why WoW style endgame cannot fit into GW2. Why do you care if another guy has better armor than you? He earned it. You can earn it too. Don’t want to earn it? Then why do you care in the first place, or do you just want gear handed to you on a plate?. PvP is completely separate anyways, no balancing issues to deal with. I remember a joke in the early 2000’s about Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” program: " ‘No Child Left Behind’ works by not letting anyone get ahead". I feel like that quote is appropriate here.

I believe you are being intentionally ignorant.
Stop it.

I don’t want to earn raid gear. It’s boring, repetitive, and really not all that hard. The hardest part about any WoW raid, ever, was twofold.
Problem one was getting together 5, 15, 25, 40, whatever number, of players who can actually pay attention, not stand in the fire, heal who they’re supposed to heal, etc. That’s the HARDEST part.
Problem two was gear checks. Your group had to get lucky enough to get the right drops to the right people to progress past certain points. Tiered gear that isn’t high enough won’t have the stats your group needs to DPS down XYZ before an enrage timer.

Boring.

So why wouldn’t that fit into GW2? Because tiered progression, that’s why. Because I don’t enjoy doing raids, but raids will have better stats on gear than non-raids (because if it doesn’t, as you carebears are always so eager to chime in with, “if it doesn’t have better stats why would I raid?”… why indeed, I ask, are you doing something you don’t enjoy doing just to get a cookie at the end?).
I abstain.
Next month a new raid comes out.
Again I abstain, because I find the whole situation ridiculous and endless and dull.

Now I’m way behind the gear curve. There’s no even ground in PvP. Sure, SPvP uses special gear — WvW does not! So I go out, I’m good at fighting players, but my gear is garbage, out of date.. everything else is irrelevant because some chumps spent an hour staring at the floor mashing two buttons, awesome.

No game with tiered gear, a gear treadmill, will ever have quality PvP. Ever. It becomes necessary to spend too much time acquiring gear, and if you don’t the only thing that matters is not player skill but player gear.

People are still playing Counterstrike with the same player models they’ve had for what, a decade or better now? Mario still looks exactly like he did 20 years ago.

I assure you, I will not mind that if in a year or two’s time my character is still wearing the same gear. Not one bit. And heck, if I do want something different, I can go ahead and get it. Just cosmetic, so I don’t feel compelled to go out and get it. I’m not outmatched if I don’t. There’s no hurry.

Besides, what DOES happen if you have raids and a gear treadmill? People finish it and want to do it again. You get a small fraction of the playerbase who actually enjoys and completes those dungeons, who completes their gear, who demand more to do. A new raid. More content. More gear to step up to. And GOD FORBID! God forbid that new content can be completed by people who DIDN’T go through the last raid! God forbid that old gear is handed out more quickly to people not at the bleeding edge so that the greater playerbase has a chance to enjoy the new content that’s been created!

Yeah, you wind up working on new content endlessly to satisfy a small percent of your playerbase. Years ago, I recall a quote from a Blizz dev at Blizzcon, where it was stated that some ridiculously small percent of their player base had been inside Molten Core. I think it was 25%. Been INSIDE, not completed, and this was after Naxx had been released.

Anet can release new content knowing that EVERYBODY is able to see it. They’re not making new things, working for months, so 2% of the people playing their game will shut up about being bored.

But hey, I’m sure you’re right and have actually considered the ramifications of neverending tiered gear progression on other aspects of an MMO. Boy howdy.

Its not the lack of loot or whatnot that makes this game loose longevity. Its the lack of progression once you hit 80. Only progression in the game left is to A] Grind for a Legendary or B] SPVP till your Rank 90.

I find it both funny as hell and Ironic how people defending everything about this game like to say that raid types do it to feel superior to others, yet the same defenders tend to insinuate that because they do not need to raid to feel superior, they are therefore superior to those that enjoy the whole raiding game.

warmonkey.8013:

super snip

Very well said.

Mog.1589:

Its not the lack of loot or whatnot that makes this game loose longevity. Its the lack of progression once you hit 80. Only progression in the game left is to A] Grind for a Legendary or B] SPVP till your Rank 90.

This is true for those who are playing for progression. Those of us who are playing for other goals see no loss of longevity.

As warmonkey.8013 pointed out above – including progression actually reduces longevity for us because we are forced to grind (which we don’t enjoy) to keep our characters functional.

warmonkey.8013:

-snip-

Hear hear!

City of Heroes (peace be upon it) had some fairly snazzy PvP going on prior to the introduction of Invention Origins (IOs). IOs were basically super versions of the enhancements (think talents) that already existed in the game, that granted set bonuses that could make a player virtually invincible while still being able to output giant damage. Pretty soon PvP just became a game of who had the best IO sets.

You’re a fantastic PvPer with some great, well-honed tactics for your specific build? Doesn’t matter: I have set bonuses that means that you have a 5% chance to hit me. Sure, I suck beyond suck at PvP, but I have the set bonuses because I farmed for weeks on end. I was willing to put up with the non-game to faceroll people who actually play the game, so I win.

I’d really hate to see that happen to GW2.

There’s also the other lesson to learn from City of Heroes: when you grant stronger and stronger ‘gear’, you need to start catering challenges towards players having that gear. Soon enough, even the PvE becomes punishingly difficult for players who aren’t willing to treat the game like a second job in order to play the game, because all the farmers with their snazzy high-end gear get bored quickly when they realise that they’re now far too overpowered for regular content. When the game reaches this stage, players effectively have to take part in the farming process just to play any new content, because otherwise they’re just too ineffectual.

This is before we even consider the fact that gear-chasing has a limit too; without continuously increasing the game’s difficulty, or nerfing the gear, or releasing lots of expansions that effectively achieve both aims, the developers reach a point where they just can’t make the gear any more powerful than it already is. So now you’ve reached the ‘end’ of the game: your character is fully maxed out. The difference between this end game, and the non-grindy end game is that the non-grindy end game doesn’t force you to treat the game like a second job. When you reach the grindy end game, and your character stagnates, then you’ve basically just lost all time you spent farming and grinding. When you reach the non-grindy end game, and you’ve gotten bored of PvP, then you’ve not lost any time at all, because none of it was spent treating the game like a second job.

Basically, my contention is that all end games are end games, but path to a gear-grind end game is significantly less fun than the path to a non-gear-grind end game. But obviously, some people find farming and grinding fun. It’s all subjective.

Lastly, some people are being a bit harsh on the OP and acting as if he’s trying to proselytize gear-grinding, or trying to state as a fact that gear-grinding is ‘better’ than non-gear-grinding. At no point has he done this. He’s stated his opinions and then had people say ludicrous nonsense to the effect of “UR JUST BEIN 1 SYDED!!!111”; I too don’t want to see grinds introduced, but for the love of all that’s good please try to understand that there’s no such thing as an unbiased opinion.

warmonkey.8013:

BLAM!

Holy Dwayna.

That was a 40k crit at the very least.

Warmonkeys need to be toned down ASAP.

I just can’t believe the OP. I stopped reading after he said he hit 80 and had all his exotics after 70 hours. yeah, it might be possible for someone who bought a ton of gold, legally or otherwise, but if that were the case, there still would be zero basis for the argument being made.

I have around 475 hours played so far and have no problem seeing myself exceeding 1,000 hours of game play from the current world PvE content alone. (I’ve barely touched WvW, only played a couple hours of sPvP and haven’t touched a Dungeon yet).

I’ve been cutting down my hours to achieve a better balance between GW2 and Real-Life, which has just redoubled the feeling that the game has way more to do than I have time to do it in, even after 475 hours of play!

Now, if the OP had said they had hit level 80 and outfitted themselves in exotics after 170 hours, I could believe that. I could also believe that someone still stuck in the old MMO mindset might be at a bit of a loss for what to do once they hit that point.

If you play the game a little more like Skyrim and less like WoW, you’ll find that there are hundreds and hundreds of hours of game play here, even for those who prefer to focus on a single character, rather than looking to alts for replayability.

I understood the game’s design going in and still needed a day off from my main after hitting level 80 just to readjust my thinking. I now have over 225 hours on that character and once I get my level 76 and level 62 alts to 80, I anticipate spending hundreds of hours of play in the coming months with my level 80 characters.

Fiontar.4695:

If you play the game a little more like Skyrim and less like WoW, you’ll find that there are hundreds and hundreds of hours of game play here

Been trying to say this for two months now.

Dynamite.6584:

Do dungeons for a week. Assuming you play 2 or 3 hours a day, you can get in 4 or 5 runs per day. That’s 240 to 300 tokens a day. In a week, that’s 1680 to 2100 tokens a week. It costs, what, 1400 per set?
Yeah, you can easily get a set with only 14 hours of play. Why can’t I do it with 70.

I didn’t realize they removed the token reward reduction and gave you 60 tokens for every run you did. These numbers are a bit surreal.

warmonkey.8013:

I want the raiding without the grind. Without the need for you to ever go into a raid to either see the content or obtain the gear. 10 / 20 man dungeons that reward dungeon tokens would be an option. Instanced 10 / 20 man versions of meta dynamic events that reward karma would also work. Both these options reuse current game content so wouldnt require heavy focus on raids.

What this game doesnt have right now is a real challenge for groups over 5. Raiding itself is not bad its just the way it was implemented that was flawed. There has been a lot of good raid content in other mmos and i would like to experience this in guild wars 2. With the more actiony style of combat they could do some interesting things.

It’s possible the guys isn’t lying about the 70 hours.
My girlfriend had 82 hours in and has an exotic set.

I haven’t helped her… I actually, ehm, owe her 2g still.

Red Falcon.8257:

Fiontar.4695:

If you play the game a little more like Skyrim and less like WoW, you’ll find that there are hundreds and hundreds of hours of game play here

Been trying to say this for two months now.

Except Skyrim is a single-player game. This is an MMO. Gotta love the cherrypicking that’s going on. GW2 lasts a lot less than other MMOs – “but but single player games last just as long”. GW2’s game play isn’t as good as single player RPGs-"but but this is an MMO, cut it some slack! ". Make up your mind. Don’t compare a multi player game to a single player one.

well. 70 hours in and having exotic set for 1 character (knowing what you are doing from start, and how to farm/earn gold), might be possible.

however it is highly impossible if ur talking about multiple characters having all exotic sets by 70 hours play lol since u started late, market became so much worse. start of the game, a powerful blood was 20s. now it is 6s. u cant even farm much . Trading maybe, but multiple sets? no.

In any case, you should reroll some other lvl 80s and try their skills if u are bored. its interesting to check out other classes. i m about 500hours or so into my account, lacking 80g to my first legendary, yes i am bored of the game, but i also try to get a 2nd character up and running

I just wish there was a straight support/healer profession

I played for 5 years of the first gw and truthfully only quit to play gw 2. I am saying that so that I can make the point I wanted to. In the first game within less then around a month with friends help I was at the cap of 20. This at first left me feeling like what now, but I kept playing just to see what more in case I missed something along the way. What I found was that they keep naturally adding stuff the holiday events were huge and fun, and somehow I have yet to achieve all I wanted to even when I left to play gw2. I sense that this game is going to turn into the same thing don’t rush give it time and 5 years from now I will still be playing it if it is out. Also not everyone wants the same thing from a game I know alot of people who only played a short while on gw and left never to come back and found games they did stay with. The point is I love this game the way it is, they will add content and the holidays are coming. If you don’t stay that is your choice but I am tired of naysayers. I would prefer discussion to be more focused on what is good and what we would like to see added as opposed to just basically this game is bad in a long winded explanation. Are you trying to convince others of your wanting to leave cause I don’t care if you do just wish you could do it quietly.

As others have said, those measuring how much content the game has, or how much fun the game is, or anything slightly similar to the game’s quality, based on the game’s gear progression – GW2 is simply not the game for those players.

It’s not their fault. MMOs have taught players that a game is not supposed to be fun – its supposed to be an addiction. And being an addiction, what matters is getting that +1, even if in the end it makes no difference (doing 10 damage to a 100 HP monster is pretty much the same as doing 10.000 damage to a 100.000 HO monster) and if the journey to get that +1 isn’t fun (rather, it’s just the same old same old “kill ten rats” grind).

For people who want a traditional MMO – congrats, there are a few still around. For those who want something different, a game that is actually trying to be fun instead of being a shore, with longevity based on how much you enjoy playing the game as opposed to how much gear you have left to grind – for those players, there is Guild Wars 2.

For me its a combination of a few things.

Difficulty : There’s hardly anything that really challenges you as you’re leveling.

Events/Hearts : They, for the most part, feel all the same, not really complex enough.

Skills : With the small build variety and small pool of skills, you’re doing the same thing over and over with not enough to really change up your playstyle.

I’ve been playing since headstart, and my highest level is only 67 lol. I’m trying my hardest to log in and get some more progress done, but I can only enjoy pve for a short amount of time before it just get’s boring again :

Run to/explore Waypoints/POI’s/Vista’s, slowly grind out the stupid hearts (I really despise hearts lol, and still 11 of them in a 60-70 zone….), find an event that yet again involves spamming waves of weak mobs, escort some dude that slowly walks to some destination with waves of weak mobs that spawn. Gather some things off the ground and bring to the collector npc. Kill a tank and spank Champion mob. Most DE’s just feel the same, and each zone ends up feeling the same, the hearts/DE’s are just too simple, and similar.

I did manage to get myself up to 67 by just getting into the lore/exploring the zones previously, going to have to try to get myself to do that again, although I’m not feeling Mount Maelstrom so far.

The game truly does have ALOT of content, whether or not that content is really good or not is debatable (Events that is). Regardless, Anet has their giant world set up and can work on sprucing it up which sounds promising.

Play the game or leave the game. Don’t come in here and talk about how everybody is going to get as bored as you did in such a small period of time. Ever thought about how other people have their own opinions?

Scatcha Tc Ki.6901:

I played for 5 years of the first gw and truthfully only quit to play gw 2. I am saying that so that I can make the point I wanted to. In the first game within less then around a month with friends help I was at the cap of 20. This at first left me feeling like what now, but I kept playing just to see what more in case I missed something along the way. What I found was that they keep naturally adding stuff the holiday events were huge and fun, and somehow I have yet to achieve all I wanted to even when I left to play gw2.

Yeah, see, I’m wonderin’ if they made a mistake makin’ level cap so close to the “end of the game” this time, so people didn’ come inta it with the same Zen attitude they did most of GW1. In the first game ya level capped about 1/20th the way inta the game and it really sent the message that level capping wasn’ a big deal … but in this one yer close ta the end of your story when ya hit that cap and I think it makes people feel like there should be more of an end game because of it. I know they said “endgame starts at level 1” but maybe they didn’ sell it well enough … I dunno. I haven’ stopped having fun yet, though, so I’m happy.

Cortechs.3265:

If you cannot enjoy a game without the carrot-reward, then you are not enjoying “the game”. All of these posts begging for the carrot are from people who are not enjoying the games; they enjoy the carrot.

You seem misguided in your view of what some players consider fun. I consider progressing my character fun. I do not consider changing the look of my armor as the central highlight of my character’s advancement.

Further, I like the “carrot” because it is often a reward for doing something many others haven’t. Though, many of them always could try. In GW 2 — everyone can spend hours for whatever armor that give no benefit beyond “It took me six weeks, but I look awesome!” There is very little prestige behind any item within the game. Sure, everyone is jealous of legendaries, but that’s mainly because they’re amazed that they either had the gold to buy the precursor, or they have awesome luck. Not that the exactly did anything special, or noteworthy.

warmonkey.8013:

It’s a game, bro. There shouldn’t be any work involved. It’s a GAME. It’s not a JOB.

You’re not going to find much enjoyment in any MMO. It sounds like you actually don’t much enjoy putting your nose to the grindstone just for gear, but that you enjoy receiving it.. eventually you’ll come to realize that the ease of getting exotics in GW2 means all the WORK in GW2 is gone, there is no work to be done unless you decide you want to look a specific way.
Because it’s a GAME, not a JOB, and work has no place in a game.

I don’t enjoy putting my nose to the grindstone for gear? Oh, I do, and I have. Assuming, the gear is actually worth putting my nose to the grindstone. GW2 removes that aspect of play. My level 80 will forever be basically the same (pending any expansions). Next to a 1000 other Mesmers, our stats are predominately the same. Our abilities the same. There is little that separates us. We are as equal as can be within an MMO. Sure, player skill/progression might set us apart, but most games don’t push actual player progression. GW2 is no different in that respect either.

So, no gear necessary. What then? Oh yeah, beating on a keep door hour after hour, day after day. Running with zerg after zerg, or making my own lil small party to “steal” an outpost/tower/etc. Oh, my realm is ahead — we’re getting more crafting crits. yay! Now — I’m going to go do play the GW2 platform game. Or, maybe go craft armor that 95% of the players already have, and won’t need to upgrade…ever.

See, using WoW as an example, how many people ran regular dungeons when the tokens offered nothing they needed? In GW2, you have people doing extremely time consuming things with the primary reason being “to look cool.” I just can’t get on board with it all.

Mog.1589:

Its not the lack of loot or whatnot that makes this game loose longevity. Its the lack of progression once you hit 80. Only progression in the game left is to A] Grind for a Legendary or B] SPVP till your Rank 90.

This is why I use the term “character progression.” Loot is merely one way that a character can “progress.” Some will use vertical or horizontal progression — I prefer vertical. I want to continually progress.

I would like to believe that in 6 months, most of the players blinded by the initial release will come to terms with the lack of longevity. And, notice how pointless the obscene gear grinds truly are for what is received. If I’m paying the price of a Ferrari for a Camry — it better have the kitten power of a Ferrari somewhere under that hood. GW2 asks for the time/money, and then gives you the standard Camry. Congrats.

Erasculio.2914:

For those who want something different, a game that is actually trying to be fun instead of being a shore, with longevity based on how much you enjoy playing the game as opposed to how much gear you have left to grind – for those players, there is Guild Wars 2.

This is a problem. I like the fact that the grind for the top equipment is easier compared to other games and non continuous, the issue (or one of) is that people just dont find the content enjoyable and I would at least partially agree. Look at the games with no grind and no progression and see why people play them.