Guild Wars 2

Have I done progression, hardcore mode raiding? No. Were the core mechanics different? No. Hard core mechanics simply took the primary encounter and added a stipulation on it, like tanks lose agro over time or you can’t taunt so you are punished if you do not swap correctly. Or they had it where the boss had more hp than normal but there was a hard enrage on the encounter so it became a gear check.

I know full and well the mechanics and the intricacies of raiding, so don’t assume and attempt to belittle people. You may simply be afraid that my words diminish your achievements in previous games, and while I don’t try to take that away from you, I don’t feel those were truly skillful occurrences, but simply everyone performing their own role correctly and on time, like a choreographed dance.

The personal skill you so desired to tout was about knowing class rotations and maximizing them in the correct scenarios. Sometimes on highly mobile fights, people would have dps drop off, but a “skilled” player could manage pushing the buttons and moving at the same time.

It is still wack-a-mole as far as priority of cooldowns and attacks to use. Belive me I have been all over elitestjerks, tanksspot, and other raiding/theory crafting sites.

Understanding what skills to bring into a raid on your hotbar versus what ones are not needed often times has me laugh at the “unskilled” player, because then they say things like “what is repentance? I don’t have that on my bar” and we needed him to CC one of the mobs before pulling. That took some time explaining what the skill does and how to get it on his hotbar.

Maybe I view these things as simple because I have played games for so long that I see the same stuff rehashed constantly, versus the younger player who their first game was wow and know nothing else.

As far as what does GW2 have to offer? Right now the only thing that they differ from is removing the trinity which removed some of the gimicky boss fight mechanics that relied on healing or tanking.

The rest of the boss fight mechanics that rely on positioning and avoiding damage are still there. Don’t stand in fire, don’t stand infront of the mob if you don’t have to, and do as much damage as you can because our HP is limited so you try to not face tank too much.

So to answer: nothing. What GW2 does bring to the table is a change in paradigms that may allow for a new way of playing to arise and include all players instead of the traditional trinity.

So for now, I am waiting and hopeful, while providing any ideas I can to spark creativity not stifle it.

I would rather ANet keep its current system and work harder on designing encounters that take advantage of it, than catering to the minority who waant WoW mechanics with GW2 graphics.

If people are so darn insistent that they prefer WoW’s dungeon mechanics, then they already have a game that they prefer, and there’s nothing wrong with that— but go play that one.

Most of us bought GW2 with the understanding that there is no traditional trinity, and we like the game that we bought.

You can hate on Blizzard all you want but you can not deny that they masterfully design amazing encounters, something ANet has not come remotely close to

actually, yeah I can deny it, and I do. They were innovative, to be sure….but masterful is a bit much.

BTW might I note something here. Comparing current WoW to GW2 is like comparing a newly squeezed wine to one aging in the barrel for a decade. Its folly.

WoW has had almost a decade to fix stuff…Anet has had 4 months. WoW in its first year was hilariously bad, if you compare it to GW2 at the same time interval, and with what ANet has accomplished.

PP

Galen.9042:

So coordinating 40 people to do the right things at the right time isn’t an example of skill, but coordinating 5 people to throw orbs at the right time (Arah) or get through a swamp in 30 seconds (Fractals) is an example of high skill? Sorry, not buying it. The two tasks are identical; it’s just that one requires more people.

In essence, that is what I am trying to get at, but you are on the other side of the fence. The same tasks are being done here, minus the role based combat of the trinity. The complexity of logistics has been reduced so it happens on a smaller scale thus ridding some of the confusion invoking factors and reducing it down to simple player performance.

I am not saying GW2 is doing combat better, I am saying GW2 and WoW combat are not so distinctly different that they NEED to bring trinity here. Simply flush out the fight mechanics and let us do MORE things in combat, not force us into less things with roles.

Zeldain.5710:

Spoken like someone who has never had team success in an MMO.

You sir, are amazing. Oh wait team success meaning your team accomplished the objectives and you continued on for the ride as well?

What is your deeps, I am sure it is really big

If you want you can post your wow character history and what guild you were in for more credibility. Maybe a gearscore too.

Going through your post history shows you area very upset and negative individual who is not happy where he is. You then take this out on others to make yourself feel better which while I think you feel it is productive, in the long run you are just lashing out at anyone near you in an attempt to hide your own deficiencies.

Maybe you should take a break from games and do something you like.

I’ve raided in wow, had success, and still prefer the way that guild wars done things. You can prefer Guild Wars for what it is without having failed at WoW.

It’s pretty selfish for a certain subset of WoW players to jump to Guild Wars and then demand that it do things like WoW. How about y’all go demand better graphics and character models, since that’s really what you want— WoW with GW2’s looks.

But no, you’d rather come to the Guild Wars franchise and demand that it bow to you guys, and sneer at the folks who like the game and appreciate what ANet is trying to do.

And then y’all criticise us for being ‘fanboys’. Well, why don’t you WoW fanboys go back to WoW if it’s so much better? Since you refuse to learn how to play this game.

OTOH, WoW’s systems can’t be that great, or you’d still be there instead of trying to destroy this game’s systems.

Y’all do this to every game! You did it to GW1 (every WoW maintenance period for years), AION, you did it to RIFT, you did it to ToR, every MMO that is not WoW, you rush in and slag it up and down and demand that it be like WoW. Stop it! Just go back to the game you think is better already.

Jandus.2834:

Vasham.2408:

projectcedric.6951:

Vasham.2408:

projectcedric.6951:

What do you mean ‘needs to come back’?

Its not like you bought it knowing it has a trinity system, and then they changed it. This game never had a trinity system as far as I know.

Do you know what is the cost of redesigning the classes to become a trinity system (assuming you are right that trinity is better)? Might as well make a new game.

That being said, I still don’t understand why would you force yourself on GW2 if you liked the trinity system and you know that this game doesn’t have it.

I didn’t force myself onto anything. I knew this game wouldn’t have the trinity and I was naive enough to think Arenanet would be capable of making it work. Clearly my hope was misplaced.

Clearly it was.

So what are you still doing here?

As a dissatisfied customer it is my right to voice my dissatisfaction and advise the creator of said sub-par product how to improve and maybe win back my support.

Sure it is. But to think for a second that Anet is going to totally revamp the fundamental game mechanics that the game is built upon is just totally naive. If you truly believe the game is broken because of the lack of a trinity then don’t play. <shrug>

/cough Ascended gear /cough

McSlappy.1372:

Jandus.2834:

Vasham.2408:

projectcedric.6951:

Vasham.2408:

projectcedric.6951:

What do you mean ‘needs to come back’?

Its not like you bought it knowing it has a trinity system, and then they changed it. This game never had a trinity system as far as I know.

Do you know what is the cost of redesigning the classes to become a trinity system (assuming you are right that trinity is better)? Might as well make a new game.

That being said, I still don’t understand why would you force yourself on GW2 if you liked the trinity system and you know that this game doesn’t have it.

I didn’t force myself onto anything. I knew this game wouldn’t have the trinity and I was naive enough to think Arenanet would be capable of making it work. Clearly my hope was misplaced.

Clearly it was.

So what are you still doing here?

As a dissatisfied customer it is my right to voice my dissatisfaction and advise the creator of said sub-par product how to improve and maybe win back my support.

Sure it is. But to think for a second that Anet is going to totally revamp the fundamental game mechanics that the game is built upon is just totally naive. If you truly believe the game is broken because of the lack of a trinity then don’t play. <shrug>

/cough Ascended gear /cough

You forgot how GW2 is a grind free grinding game. Or how the endgame starts at level one…since the endgame doesn’t exist.

primuspilus.3856:

No, you’ve never done any REAL raiding. The challenge in WoW is that the boss mechanics are punishing of any mistake. So whenever one little detail goes wrong, it’s up to how the rest of the group can react to fix it. Then you know all those abilities you have that you were like “I’m never going to need these” and you didn’t put them on your bar, well part of your challenge is actually using those skills because they DO matter

Gotta disagree here. WoW, and others of their ilk is an exercise of selective button mashing for useful skills and never using trash skills ever. Every class in WoW (and others, Im looking at you LOTRO) have a plethora of completely useless skills that are rarely, if ever used. I left WoW because of the unimaginitve style of play. WoW and its brain children are the definition of mindless grinding and pigeonholing characters into roles they can never escape from.

Not every fight is just an issue of being choreographed, most of them require a decent amount of personal skill on top of it, some require absolute perfection

Sorry, I never saw that except maybe on 1 instance.

An the other guy with the military idea and everyone doing damage. Where the military differs from this game is that synergy between everyone. There’s true teamwork. They’re all doing killing, but they have specific jobs. You don’t send snipers to try to sneak into somewhere to rescue someone, and you don’t send a medic to hide in a mountain and try to kill someone important. GW2 lacks that

this i do agree with. I believe that if I spec my ELE for water, in a dungeon, he should be able to do an ok job at keeping the party alive. Same if Im speccing a tank warrior for survivability. I dont really see this yet on GW.

Throw more numbers in until it dies

Its going to be that way when anyone can map shout about The Shatterer or Jormag’s claw. It would be exactly the same if the Lich King or Ragnaros was just wandering about for anyone on the entire server to jump on. I dont see alot of folks saying this about Her Royal Vileness, High Priestess of Dwayna.

About being water elementalist spec for healing, i get your meaning but i don’t agree with this, being able to heal an injured to full is not by a medic, is by a doctor, and a doctor is someone you will not bring to battlefield so nope, there are no pure healer in GW2, it is the frontline warzone, everyone is soldier and all about killing. Non combatant do not exist.

And what i said an injured player have to do on his side is using his heal skill, dodge, CC, movement away, these are the meaning of “taking cover”, if a player is smart enough, he can stay alive, back off, receiving heals from you and back on line. This happens a lot with my guardian, shout heal warrior and elementalist, i never find my heal is useless, instead, a good and considerating party will have players spec into a bit support and shared the hp management. The existing healing power is weak but still it doesn’t stop me from playing a real healer role, my ele will switch to water, giving regen and healing support to my team.

primuspilus.3856:

No, you’ve never done any REAL raiding. The challenge in WoW is that the boss mechanics are punishing of any mistake. So whenever one little detail goes wrong, it’s up to how the rest of the group can react to fix it. Then you know all those abilities you have that you were like “I’m never going to need these” and you didn’t put them on your bar, well part of your challenge is actually using those skills because they DO matter

Gotta disagree here. WoW, and others of their ilk is an exercise of selective button mashing for useful skills and never using trash skills ever. Every class in WoW (and others, Im looking at you LOTRO) have a plethora of completely useless skills that are rarely, if ever used. I left WoW because of the unimaginitve style of play. WoW and its brain children are the definition of mindless grinding and pigeonholing characters into roles they can never escape from.

Not every fight is just an issue of being choreographed, most of them require a decent amount of personal skill on top of it, some require absolute perfection

Sorry, I never saw that except maybe on 1 instance.

An the other guy with the military idea and everyone doing damage. Where the military differs from this game is that synergy between everyone. There’s true teamwork. They’re all doing killing, but they have specific jobs. You don’t send snipers to try to sneak into somewhere to rescue someone, and you don’t send a medic to hide in a mountain and try to kill someone important. GW2 lacks that

this i do agree with. I believe that if I spec my ELE for water, in a dungeon, he should be able to do an ok job at keeping the party alive. Same if Im speccing a tank warrior for survivability. I dont really see this yet on GW.

Throw more numbers in until it dies

Its going to be that way when anyone can map shout about The Shatterer or Jormag’s claw. It would be exactly the same if the Lich King or Ragnaros was just wandering about for anyone on the entire server to jump on. I dont see alot of folks saying this about Her Royal Vileness, High Priestess of Dwayna.

OK, this is the last time I’m responding to you because you’re clearly just talking out of your kitten

Let’s look at paladin in WoW… Where does Hand of Freedom come into use? Literally every root that needs to be killed. Healer has aggro, Hand of Protection,if it’s on cooldown, taunt,and bubble just before he gets to you if a tank didn’t pick it up by then. Boss is putting a debuff on you that will kill you, Divine Shield… This is what separates the good from bad players. All those skills you rarely touched all had their uses.

And a lot of bosses required actual player skill, but like I said, you were carried, you didn’t actually see that. I’d make a list, but that’s way too long of a post.

This isn’t WoW. Maybe you guys should discuss WoW’s class mechanics in their forum?

Sylv.5324:

I’ve raided in wow, had success, and still prefer the way that guild wars done things. You can prefer Guild Wars for what it is without having failed at WoW.

It’s pretty selfish for a certain subset of WoW players to jump to Guild Wars and then demand that it do things like WoW. How about y’all go demand better graphics and character models, since that’s really what you want— WoW with GW2’s looks.

But no, you’d rather come to the Guild Wars franchise and demand that it bow to you guys, and sneer at the folks who like the game and appreciate what ANet is trying to do.

And then y’all criticise us for being ‘fanboys’. Well, why don’t you WoW fanboys go back to WoW if it’s so much better? Since you refuse to learn how to play this game.

OTOH, WoW’s systems can’t be that great, or you’d still be there instead of trying to destroy this game’s systems.

Y’all do this to every game! You did it to GW1 (every WoW maintenance period for years), AION, you did it to RIFT, you did it to ToR, every MMO that is not WoW, you rush in and slag it up and down and demand that it be like WoW. Stop it! Just go back to the game you think is better already.

No, actually it’s you guys that keep bringing WoW into it.

We want DEPTH to combat, as opposed to just pushing V to dodge. We want group synergy as opposed to “he look, I solo’d a boss”.

We want what ANet was aiming for. The difference is that we can see where they left some pretty major choices out.

This is NOT a game designed around no trinity. It’s WoW, but everyone can only spec DPS, and all your utility is gone. People are asking for a trinity because ANet failed so much at the combat system they have now.

GW2 is Skyrim. But it’s multiplayer and someone MIGHT group with you.

We want true teamwork between players. We want our group to have a point. There’s nothing new in this game, even the lack of a trinity isn’t new, and actually predates MMORPGs, in MUDs. But in every other game that has done it, everyone in the group actually brings something to the group, here’s it’s basically a different graphic effect for essentially the same attack.

tonyl.5063:

primuspilus.3856:

No, you’ve never done any REAL raiding. The challenge in WoW is that the boss mechanics are punishing of any mistake. So whenever one little detail goes wrong, it’s up to how the rest of the group can react to fix it. Then you know all those abilities you have that you were like “I’m never going to need these” and you didn’t put them on your bar, well part of your challenge is actually using those skills because they DO matter

Gotta disagree here. WoW, and others of their ilk is an exercise of selective button mashing for useful skills and never using trash skills ever. Every class in WoW (and others, Im looking at you LOTRO) have a plethora of completely useless skills that are rarely, if ever used. I left WoW because of the unimaginitve style of play. WoW and its brain children are the definition of mindless grinding and pigeonholing characters into roles they can never escape from.

Not every fight is just an issue of being choreographed, most of them require a decent amount of personal skill on top of it, some require absolute perfection

Sorry, I never saw that except maybe on 1 instance.

An the other guy with the military idea and everyone doing damage. Where the military differs from this game is that synergy between everyone. There’s true teamwork. They’re all doing killing, but they have specific jobs. You don’t send snipers to try to sneak into somewhere to rescue someone, and you don’t send a medic to hide in a mountain and try to kill someone important. GW2 lacks that

this i do agree with. I believe that if I spec my ELE for water, in a dungeon, he should be able to do an ok job at keeping the party alive. Same if Im speccing a tank warrior for survivability. I dont really see this yet on GW.

Throw more numbers in until it dies

Its going to be that way when anyone can map shout about The Shatterer or Jormag’s claw. It would be exactly the same if the Lich King or Ragnaros was just wandering about for anyone on the entire server to jump on. I dont see alot of folks saying this about Her Royal Vileness, High Priestess of Dwayna.

OK, this is the last time I’m responding to you because you’re clearly just talking out of your kitten

Let’s look at paladin in WoW… Where does Hand of Freedom come into use? Literally every root that needs to be killed. Healer has aggro, Hand of Protection,if it’s on cooldown, taunt,and bubble just before he gets to you if a tank didn’t pick it up by then. Boss is putting a debuff on you that will kill you, Divine Shield… This is what separates the good from bad players. All those skills you rarely touched all had their uses.

And a lot of bosses required actual player skill, but like I said, you were carried, you didn’t actually see that. I’d make a list, but that’s way too long of a post.

Thats make the same reason to GW2 it does require skills. It makes a huge differences where my mesmer use diversion on boss stopping the 1 hit kill cone of scream in AC exp to where no body is using interrupt skill at all. Yes some GW2 content can be played more casually i give you that but player skill include reflexes and well timing requirement is totally different to a single trinity formula. There i see a lot of under geared player doing amazing jobs than fully exotic player, thats what we mean skills.

GW2 is a new game and it will still have its flaw, especially not enough depth in some hard contents but it is not the non trinity issue. Anet will have to absorb more experience from players and to develop more indepth combat based on the existing system. For example a boss fight will give tons of conditions and outlast your party, everyone have to swap out their condition removal and do some interrupt to stop the boss from casting the skill, so it is not full dps team can handle and give more meaning to interrupt and supportive skills.

Well, i am sure Anet can come up more interesting combat in the future without any sort of trinity based formula, time and constructive ideas are needed.

Zeldain.5710:

MaRko.3165:

- but wait – this is a MMO!

As someone who has never played a ‘mmo’ before I don’t see how the ‘mmo’ element makes this game any different. I’ll simply play the existing content and if entertained or interested enough I may roll another toon and play through again (or a few more times).

That’s a single player gamer mentality. This is supposed to be an MMO.

The expectation of an MMO is to deliver a persistent world with long-term goals and content updates on a regular basis. It’s not a “play, play again later…” proposition, and that may end up being quite frankly the final nail in the GW2 coffin.

I think the confusion here is in interchanging “Monthly Subscription” with “MMO” and the thinking that because of the “MMO” element this “MMO” ought to be similar to other MMO’s which happen to be consumed via a monthly subscription.

If I were paying a monthly subscription then YES, I’d expect an ever changing world and constant updates to feed my content eating entertainment needs. After all, why would anyone subscribe to stagnant content?

There’s noting about ‘massive’ or ‘multiplayer’ or both that imply a “persistent world with long-term goals and content updates on a regular basis”. (simply look at Planetside2 for example)

GW2 is more like the shooters that allow you to play online with friends and strangers except on a ‘massive’ scale than like the Everquests/WoW and other monthly subscription services. GW2 is not a monthly subscription service.

The issue(s) here is (assuming that they want to) how do you keep players interested that have reached the level cap and have used up all the content? While most of these games are fairly the same – how do you make THIS game unique enough to keep players coming back?

I like being able to use up most of the content without having to bond/group with others. I also like the fact that GW2 gives me the flexibility to play any role I’m willing and able to in battle. The whole ‘trinity thing’ sounds boring to me.

Instead of having ‘fixed roles’ and everyone knows what they ought to be doing walking into a situation, this game forces the users to communicate and dynamically plan out each encounter depending on who is there and what skills and abilities are available. I think that was the goal. However some might argue that many encounters result in everyone simply spamming their abilities until whatever it is they are trying to kill is dead. I suppose if there are enough people to do this effectively and that works so be it. Then again I think that the smaller groups of 5 that are suggested for some of these encounters may need somewhat more planning then simply spamming.

Personally I enjoy the look and feel of GW2 and there’s enough content in PvE to encourage me to roll another toon and play though again. Sometimes I’ll stop and simply LOOK at the game.

I think GW2 is just fine the way it is.

What if the teamwork in combat revolved around “essentially the same attack” that everyone has for damage and survivability.

What I mean is, everyone has a group heal, but it is on long cooldown. In order to heal and live through the fight you have to time and rotate your group heals otherwise you die.

Everyone can break the bosses armor so that he takes damage, but it is on a long cooldown, and if you all blow it at the same time, then there will be long periods of no damage being done, resulting in the group dying because they couldn’t meet the damage needed.

Everyone can control the boss, but you have to space out controls between the group otherwise there will be periods where the boss is flailing about and hitting everyone for obscene damage, and the only way to prevent that is to immobilize/knock down/block at the right times, but for the group.

Take that self survivability and apply it to the group and the group becomes stronger for longer periods of damage and combat.

tonyl.5063:

No, actually it’s you guys that keep bringing WoW into it..

You can say that to my virtual face when this whole thread is a bunch of WoW fanboys claiming that WoW’s so much better? There’s a bunch of that on this very page!

Crossaber.8934:

GW2 is a new game and it will still have its flaw, especially not enough depth in some hard contents but it is not the non trinity issue. Anet will have to absorb more experience from players and to develop more indepth combat based on the existing system. For example a boss fight will give tons of conditions and outlast your party, everyone have to swap out their condition removal and do some interrupt to stop the boss from casting the skill, so it is not full dps team can handle and give more meaning to interrupt and supportive skills.

Well, i am sure Anet can come up more interesting combat in the future without any sort of trinity based formula, time and constructive ideas are needed.

This is exactly right.

tonyl.5063:

Sylv.5324:

I’ve raided in wow, had success, and still prefer the way that guild wars done things. You can prefer Guild Wars for what it is without having failed at WoW.

It’s pretty selfish for a certain subset of WoW players to jump to Guild Wars and then demand that it do things like WoW. How about y’all go demand better graphics and character models, since that’s really what you want— WoW with GW2’s looks.

But no, you’d rather come to the Guild Wars franchise and demand that it bow to you guys, and sneer at the folks who like the game and appreciate what ANet is trying to do.

And then y’all criticise us for being ‘fanboys’. Well, why don’t you WoW fanboys go back to WoW if it’s so much better? Since you refuse to learn how to play this game.

OTOH, WoW’s systems can’t be that great, or you’d still be there instead of trying to destroy this game’s systems.

Y’all do this to every game! You did it to GW1 (every WoW maintenance period for years), AION, you did it to RIFT, you did it to ToR, every MMO that is not WoW, you rush in and slag it up and down and demand that it be like WoW. Stop it! Just go back to the game you think is better already.

No, actually it’s you guys that keep bringing WoW into it.

We want DEPTH to combat, as opposed to just pushing V to dodge. We want group synergy as opposed to “he look, I solo’d a boss”.

We want what ANet was aiming for. The difference is that we can see where they left some pretty major choices out.

This is NOT a game designed around no trinity. It’s WoW, but everyone can only spec DPS, and all your utility is gone. People are asking for a trinity because ANet failed so much at the combat system they have now.

GW2 is Skyrim. But it’s multiplayer and someone MIGHT group with you.

We want true teamwork between players. We want our group to have a point. There’s nothing new in this game, even the lack of a trinity isn’t new, and actually predates MMORPGs, in MUDs. But in every other game that has done it, everyone in the group actually brings something to the group, here’s it’s basically a different graphic effect for essentially the same attack.

This i agree GW2 combat needs more depth, but not in a form of trinity. The more flexible of class building is what GW2 offered and it will lost its edge if going back to trinity. Like my last post said, i love to see more combat based on player support each other to be able to win rather than 5x dps with damage oriented utility skills melting dungeons. Thats the reason me and my guildmates love to play with undergear non lv80 players in dungeon because we tends to help each more than all exotic geared players.

Who made y’all some authority on whether it fails, anyway? o.O

I do not support the holy trinity in Guild Wars 2. I’d like to see improvements to PvE, but never the trinity.

Kausion.9384:

Vasham has already shot down this argument that is used often by people like you. I don’t know what your 20 “years of experience” comprised of but it obviously was not serious endgame raiding. To seriously suggest that it is “autopilot easymode” is ludicrous. You are seriously suggesting that players could watch TV and eat while pushing for top kills of Yogg 0-light. Let’s be serious.

I did all serious endgame raiding of all sorts in the majority of MMOs.
As long as you have the gear it’s all about rotation and tank/healer doing their job correctly, with the sporadic “phase change”.
There’s nothing remotely “skill-based” in autopilot PvE of traditional MMOs, been there done that while eating chips and watching TV series.
When I hear “I’m a former wow raider yadda yadda” it really sounds like a McDonald employee trying to make his job sounds hard.

Anet stated a lot of times that they made GW2 for people who hates the trinity, hates passive, calculator-based, RNG-oriented combat, hates all these obsolete mechanics and wants action-reaction-movent based gameplay.

Anet is never going to dumb down the game with a trinity, get over it.

lothefallen.7081:

phys.7689:

Przemek.6835:

Osculim.2983:

No thank you no trinity otherwise i would play other mmos but im not.

couple of reasons :

1st you have healers and tanks thinking they are more important than everyone else in a group which in turns breeds a horrible community.

2nd There is no way in wow that a dps player get a quick group you always wait much longer than a tank or healer.

Also whats the point of standing still in a fight thats the most boring thing in other mmos for me doesnt matter what you do you always gets hit that is just not realistic its like standing still in front of a person with a gun and just wait for him to shoot you and hoping for the best.

It is not as if you didnt know that there is not gonna be a trinity either if that was your thing why switch to another mmo. If the wow type machanics is your thing then play wow that is the exact same reason i moved to guildwars the trinity is not my thing so i left wow and im happy.

Speaking about the realism… how realistic downstate is? You lay down and raise your hand so you can magically get back to fight endless times?

I won’t comment on finding party because I haven’t tried much yet. Looking at other posts tho it seems that finding one is easier with certain classes/specs. For me it doesn’t matter if I have to look longer because bleeds dont stack past 25 or because they already have 3 dpsers.

Looking at your post you are another one that thinks trinitiy=wow and thats the game on wnich you are basing your opinion. Well than I did every raid and dungeon in that crappy game and I hardly ever stood still during encounter, and I only stood still because I couldnt cast while moving and every second of not casting counts as dps loss.

On a side, in WoW after every encounter I knew I could have played better. I messed spell priority a bit, or I popped my cds a while too fast. I don’t have that feeling in gw2 there is no self improvement.

have you ever done any group content? or are you basing this soley off the open world events? If you did dungeons or fractals higher than 10, and didnt feel any teamwork, or see the importance of your build, playstyle and how well you execute, you were probably being carried by a team, because even ascalon catacombs can be pretty harsh without people who know what they are doing and how to effectively deal with situations, beyond a dps race.

I did a dungeon naked with my Guardian + Hammer and went AFK on bosses with 1 on auto and never died. Cleared the dungeon, got almost 70 silver, tokens, loot, and only had to move my character to the bossfights. Didn’t have to communicate with my team at all. Didn’t have a role, i just sat there, put down wards, and never died. I washed the dishes, watched a few youtube videos and made a bagel with cream cheese and capers all while auto-piloting.

Yeah, this is part of the reason why implementing a more solid trinity or direct healer class would improve this game socially, depth wise, and design wise. Then maybe the team could design an encounter in which the boss had real difficulty not just a health bar in scientific notation and 1HKO you had to dodge out of once ever 25 seconds.

Do people defending the game as it is not play it? Are they even lv 80 yet?

what you just talked about defines being carried, and you can carry people in every single MMO out there, so i dunno what your point is other than you take advantage of people/friends

Vasham.2408:

WoW is the industry standard, so there’s nothing wrong with using it for comparison. For all the zealots like to fling poo at it’s mention they have to accept that GW2 needs to stand up to WoW in terms of quality in order to stay afloat. Right now though GW2 has a one ton weight around it’s ankles dragging it deeper and deeper into irrelevance every day while WoW continues to recover and grow after an admittedly bad expansion pack.

That’s not even remotely true.
Soccer doesn’t need to “stand up” to basket, they’re different sports for different people.
Similarly, GW2 is a different game than WoW and needs to appeal to different people, it makes no sense to compare the two beside mentioning they’re both online games.

WoW is only the standard for theme park, grind-based, P2P MMOs.
Any game outside those standards won’t pick from the playerbase of Blizzard so they don’t need to care about any comparison with WoW.

GW2 itself got his playerbase from people that was unsatisfied with traditional MMOs – it would be pretty naive to say it needs to stand up to a game its userbase was tired of.

My family owns a restaurant and rest assured they don’t compare themselves to McDonald.
They cater to people who like healthy food, people who like trash food will always go to McDonalds anyways.

phys.7689:

lothefallen.7081:

phys.7689:

Przemek.6835:

Osculim.2983:

No thank you no trinity otherwise i would play other mmos but im not.

couple of reasons :

1st you have healers and tanks thinking they are more important than everyone else in a group which in turns breeds a horrible community.

2nd There is no way in wow that a dps player get a quick group you always wait much longer than a tank or healer.

Also whats the point of standing still in a fight thats the most boring thing in other mmos for me doesnt matter what you do you always gets hit that is just not realistic its like standing still in front of a person with a gun and just wait for him to shoot you and hoping for the best.

It is not as if you didnt know that there is not gonna be a trinity either if that was your thing why switch to another mmo. If the wow type machanics is your thing then play wow that is the exact same reason i moved to guildwars the trinity is not my thing so i left wow and im happy.

Speaking about the realism… how realistic downstate is? You lay down and raise your hand so you can magically get back to fight endless times?

I won’t comment on finding party because I haven’t tried much yet. Looking at other posts tho it seems that finding one is easier with certain classes/specs. For me it doesn’t matter if I have to look longer because bleeds dont stack past 25 or because they already have 3 dpsers.

Looking at your post you are another one that thinks trinitiy=wow and thats the game on wnich you are basing your opinion. Well than I did every raid and dungeon in that crappy game and I hardly ever stood still during encounter, and I only stood still because I couldnt cast while moving and every second of not casting counts as dps loss.

On a side, in WoW after every encounter I knew I could have played better. I messed spell priority a bit, or I popped my cds a while too fast. I don’t have that feeling in gw2 there is no self improvement.

have you ever done any group content? or are you basing this soley off the open world events? If you did dungeons or fractals higher than 10, and didnt feel any teamwork, or see the importance of your build, playstyle and how well you execute, you were probably being carried by a team, because even ascalon catacombs can be pretty harsh without people who know what they are doing and how to effectively deal with situations, beyond a dps race.

I did a dungeon naked with my Guardian + Hammer and went AFK on bosses with 1 on auto and never died. Cleared the dungeon, got almost 70 silver, tokens, loot, and only had to move my character to the bossfights. Didn’t have to communicate with my team at all. Didn’t have a role, i just sat there, put down wards, and never died. I washed the dishes, watched a few youtube videos and made a bagel with cream cheese and capers all while auto-piloting.

Yeah, this is part of the reason why implementing a more solid trinity or direct healer class would improve this game socially, depth wise, and design wise. Then maybe the team could design an encounter in which the boss had real difficulty not just a health bar in scientific notation and 1HKO you had to dodge out of once ever 25 seconds.

Do people defending the game as it is not play it? Are they even lv 80 yet?

what you just talked about defines being carried, and you can carry people in every single MMO out there, so i dunno what your point is other than you take advantage of people/friends

So because his class is so unbalanced he can practically solo every dungeon ingame while afk that means, apparently, he was carried? If anything everyone else was carried since he was playing one of Arenanet’s three favored classes and brought enough power to the group solo, while afk, to kill everything and hold aggro.

You have an odd definition of carried.

im for the healing to be buffed and to have dedicated healer i love to heal and the pve is insane boring i agreee whit u man on all on this topic

CMF.5461:

What if the teamwork in combat revolved around “essentially the same attack” that everyone has for damage and survivability.

What I mean is, everyone has a group heal, but it is on long cooldown. In order to heal and live through the fight you have to time and rotate your group heals otherwise you die.

Everyone can break the bosses armor so that he takes damage, but it is on a long cooldown, and if you all blow it at the same time, then there will be long periods of no damage being done, resulting in the group dying because they couldn’t meet the damage needed.

Everyone can control the boss, but you have to space out controls between the group otherwise there will be periods where the boss is flailing about and hitting everyone for obscene damage, and the only way to prevent that is to immobilize/knock down/block at the right times, but for the group.

Take that self survivability and apply it to the group and the group becomes stronger for longer periods of damage and combat.

this kind of does exist, it really boils down to the fact that guild wars 2 is very forgiving right now, go play some higher level fractals and you start to see people really come together with team work to succeed.

The main reason people dont use teamwork, support, and properly use their defensive/team defensive skills, is not because this type of play isnt encouraged by the mechanics, its because the fights are designed so that people can win. (generally speaking)

phys.7689:

CMF.5461:

What if the teamwork in combat revolved around “essentially the same attack” that everyone has for damage and survivability.

What I mean is, everyone has a group heal, but it is on long cooldown. In order to heal and live through the fight you have to time and rotate your group heals otherwise you die.

Everyone can break the bosses armor so that he takes damage, but it is on a long cooldown, and if you all blow it at the same time, then there will be long periods of no damage being done, resulting in the group dying because they couldn’t meet the damage needed.

Everyone can control the boss, but you have to space out controls between the group otherwise there will be periods where the boss is flailing about and hitting everyone for obscene damage, and the only way to prevent that is to immobilize/knock down/block at the right times, but for the group.

Take that self survivability and apply it to the group and the group becomes stronger for longer periods of damage and combat.

this kind of does exist, it really boils down to the fact that guild wars 2 is very forgiving right now, go play some higher level fractals and you start to see people really come together with team work to succeed.

The main reason people dont use teamwork, support, and properly use their defensive/team defensive skills, is not because this type of play isnt encouraged by the mechanics, its because the fights are designed so that people can win. (generally speaking)

Exactly. It’s like I said earlier in the topic. The core mechanics are actually solid. There just isn’t much content that really showcases what it can do at the moment.

Proven.2854:

The way I see it, even if the PvE is seen as worse, changing to a trinity system will not solve that. That’s the primary problem I see with Vasham’s argument.

Instead of comparing to other MMOs, why don’t you compare GW2 with it’s focus on dodging and self-healing to other games entirely? Like action games? Or FPS? Or anything not an MMO? How do fights and encounters there get much more interesting?

In any game, there are player mechanics and enemy mechanics. You’re hating on the enemy mechanics while proposing the solution is in the player mechanics. It’s not. It’s in the enemy mechanics.

And stuff like this:

Disclaimer: I am a former WoW raider with realm first world top 50-100 kills for 6 straight tiers. You can hate on Blizzard all you want but you can not deny that they masterfully design amazing encounters, something ANet has not come remotely close to.

Is an opinion. I don’t like Blizzard style encounters. But, Blizzard did design encounters that you found masterful.

Those game’s aren’t MMOs. They aren’t TRYING to be MMOs. GW2 claims to be and therefore the implications of removing the trinity system, not just a stylistic choice by designers, but a logical, thought out system proven by time to work very well in these types of games, applies to it.. MMO players don’t want to wail on a boss with a ridiculous health pool in a zerg of spell animations and uncoordinated player roles, dodging with twitch to avoid getting one shotted. You can’t cater to both casual console gamers and MMO gamers equally. What they designed is a mess. It’s not an action system, it’s a wonky mutated step brother of Trinity & Console Platformer. The enemy can only do what depth the system allows for. With no form of pressure between control / active heal role / and damage, combat is very boring and one dimensional. In GW1, if your mesmer went down, their ele starts breathing down your neck…if my hammer warrior goes down, your monk is living the life O’Reilly. There is no such integral role specialization and by association, depth in GW2. You can’t make monsters act different to compensate if the depth is not there in the skill system in the first place. That’s like building a brick house out of Lincoln logs.

The point of departure is that enemies don’t use a uniformed skill system like the players. Player skills have depth, reaction, choice. When a Graveling Scavenger lunges, you dodge. Everything else just doesn’t matter, you zerg it down and kill it. It doesn’t have a skillbar. It has one mechanic that is very marginally effective and when it is effective, you die…on the ground. There’s no middle ground. There’s no hexes from the enemies, no named spells inhibiting your skills…no tangible depth. This is what happens when you take enemy skills away and make them dummy encounters that have one mechanic and an auto-attack. There is no depth in what they did to transition the GW1 → GW2 skill system. They’ve removed depth. It’s plain to see what is wrong, it’s not that they have depth they aren’t utilizing, it’s that it’s just NOT there in the structure.

Vasham.2408:

phys.7689:

lothefallen.7081:

phys.7689:

Przemek.6835:

Osculim.2983:

No thank you no trinity otherwise i would play other mmos but im not.

couple of reasons :

1st you have healers and tanks thinking they are more important than everyone else in a group which in turns breeds a horrible community.

2nd There is no way in wow that a dps player get a quick group you always wait much longer than a tank or healer.

Also whats the point of standing still in a fight thats the most boring thing in other mmos for me doesnt matter what you do you always gets hit that is just not realistic its like standing still in front of a person with a gun and just wait for him to shoot you and hoping for the best.

It is not as if you didnt know that there is not gonna be a trinity either if that was your thing why switch to another mmo. If the wow type machanics is your thing then play wow that is the exact same reason i moved to guildwars the trinity is not my thing so i left wow and im happy.

Speaking about the realism… how realistic downstate is? You lay down and raise your hand so you can magically get back to fight endless times?

I won’t comment on finding party because I haven’t tried much yet. Looking at other posts tho it seems that finding one is easier with certain classes/specs. For me it doesn’t matter if I have to look longer because bleeds dont stack past 25 or because they already have 3 dpsers.

Looking at your post you are another one that thinks trinitiy=wow and thats the game on wnich you are basing your opinion. Well than I did every raid and dungeon in that crappy game and I hardly ever stood still during encounter, and I only stood still because I couldnt cast while moving and every second of not casting counts as dps loss.

On a side, in WoW after every encounter I knew I could have played better. I messed spell priority a bit, or I popped my cds a while too fast. I don’t have that feeling in gw2 there is no self improvement.

have you ever done any group content? or are you basing this soley off the open world events? If you did dungeons or fractals higher than 10, and didnt feel any teamwork, or see the importance of your build, playstyle and how well you execute, you were probably being carried by a team, because even ascalon catacombs can be pretty harsh without people who know what they are doing and how to effectively deal with situations, beyond a dps race.

I did a dungeon naked with my Guardian + Hammer and went AFK on bosses with 1 on auto and never died. Cleared the dungeon, got almost 70 silver, tokens, loot, and only had to move my character to the bossfights. Didn’t have to communicate with my team at all. Didn’t have a role, i just sat there, put down wards, and never died. I washed the dishes, watched a few youtube videos and made a bagel with cream cheese and capers all while auto-piloting.

Yeah, this is part of the reason why implementing a more solid trinity or direct healer class would improve this game socially, depth wise, and design wise. Then maybe the team could design an encounter in which the boss had real difficulty not just a health bar in scientific notation and 1HKO you had to dodge out of once ever 25 seconds.

Do people defending the game as it is not play it? Are they even lv 80 yet?

what you just talked about defines being carried, and you can carry people in every single MMO out there, so i dunno what your point is other than you take advantage of people/friends

So because his class is so unbalanced he can practically solo every dungeon ingame while afk that means, apparently, he was carried? If anything everyone else was carried since he was playing one of Arenanet’s three favored classes and brought enough power to the group solo, while afk, to kill everything and hold aggro.

You have an odd definition of carried.

actually he probably wasnt holding agro, because as a person who has done many dungeons, I cant really think of any dungeon where everyone could do what he claimed to do and succeed. Especially the wash the dishes with AA on business. Guardian isnt really that OP, and most of its defense comes from its gear, and active maintence of boons. and even with this, they can still get killed if they play like robots which is what he is describing.

He was carried. because he basically said he was carried. No dungeon can be beat with 5 people playing like he claims to have played.

boy this thread has blown up

some folks here have caught on to the right idea. what needs to happen is better encounter design and better npc enemy AI. Since this combat has more action and fps elements to it, take a clue from fps games. fps AI is infinitely superior to mmorpg AI. Use tactics like flanking, scatter from aoe, cover, kiting, all that good stuff. Incorporate that to the mobs instead of reverting back to the tired holy trinity formula.

Red Falcon.8257:

Vasham.2408:

WoW is the industry standard, so there’s nothing wrong with using it for comparison. For all the zealots like to fling poo at it’s mention they have to accept that GW2 needs to stand up to WoW in terms of quality in order to stay afloat. Right now though GW2 has a one ton weight around it’s ankles dragging it deeper and deeper into irrelevance every day while WoW continues to recover and grow after an admittedly bad expansion pack.

That’s not even remotely true.
Soccer doesn’t need to “stand up” to basket, they’re different sports for different people.
Similarly, GW2 is a different game than WoW and needs to appeal to different people, it makes no sense to compare the two beside mentioning they’re both online games.

This argument would make perfect sense if GW2 was a game in a different genre. It’s not because like WoW it is an MMORPG. This means GW2 must recognize WoW as it’s direct competition.

WoW is only the standard for theme park, grind-based, P2P MMOs.
Any game outside those standards won’t pick from the playerbase of Blizzard so they don’t need to care about any comparison with WoW.

But GW2 is a theme park, grind-based B2P MMO. One differing factor does not disqualify it from being in the same genre. They do need to care, especially with Blizzard’s upcoming content they’ve announced. Lack of a subscription is not enough for most people to keep them playing GW2. Content will define it’s future, and it’s failing in that regard on all fronts.

GW2 itself got his playerbase from people that was unsatisfied with traditional MMOs – it would be pretty naive to say it needs to stand up to a game its userbase was tired of.

You assume everyone who bought GW2 played other MMOs or stopped playing those MMOs. I play WoW and GW2 because it isn’t an extra impact on my budget. I know people who play GW2 alongside other MMOs like EVE and Rift. Likewise others I knew never played an MMO before. Many of them have since quit. I’m abstaining until changes are made to GW2, personally.

You also forgot that the vast majority of GW2’s remaining yet dwindling population are GW1 veterans, not converts or genre newcomers.

My family owns a restaurant and rest assured they don’t compare themselves to McDonald.
They cater to people who like healthy food, people who like trash food will always go to McDonalds anyways.

“Everyone who likes the other guy likes trash.”

This is what you’re saying. Class act right here. Subtle insults toward the people who disagree with you aren’t going to make people take you seriously.

primuspilus.3856:

than catering to the minority who waant WoW mechanics with GW2 graphics

I hear a little company called Bethesda might be doing a small project like that

PP

Elder Scrolls online …IMO is going to take GW2 and Mash it with WoW to satisfy everyone who wants a piece of what they like.
A close friend tied to the gaming indusrty has played it behind closed doors and has said it may make an excellent mash up.
They seem to be taking what GW2 has done..fixing it and then adding elements for traditional MMO players as well… with real elder scrools combat (blocking, dodging, sneaking)…..not to mention you can join the dark brotherhood NPC guild!!!!…thats all the motivation I needed to try i out lol.

It will be worth keeping an eye out.

I pray that Anet has big plans and fixes for this game before the next wave on Next gen MMO’s hit….

At least fix this games kittenty camera…

CMF.5461:

Zeldain.5710:

MistyMountains.3751:

Dont support this- sorry but the holy trinity actually required no real tactics what so ever…played many mmos in my life and action oriented combat will always require more skill and teamwork …

Sorry, didn’t realize it was opposites day.

Not having the trinity results in total, chaotic combat with absolutely zero strategy required and no tactics applied. That’s what we have here in GW2 here now.

Team combat is all but non-existent. It’s a joke of an MMO.

Not totally related, but an fps with no combat roles what so ever has tons of strategy and tactics required in order to hold rooms, clear hallways, and reach objectives.

There isn’t a tank, healer, and dps in counter strike but there are tons of strategies in that game if you want to use them (even if most just zerg a spot)

So positioning and team coordination are still around in non-role oriented combat.

Yet amusingly enough, there are many team based FPS games with classes like Battlefield 3 or PlanetSide 2, which also have medics, who can essentially do what a healers do in MMOs, ie. run around healing team mates and bringing them back up when they go down. Incidentally, it’s also very fun and rewarding to do, and especially in BF3, where teamplay is rewarded at every turn, medics are commonly seen on top of the scoreboard, often with only a few actual kills.

I’d like to be a medic in GW2 as well, but GW2 says no and tells me to just hit stuff instead.

Angelus.1042:

primuspilus.3856:

than catering to the minority who waant WoW mechanics with GW2 graphics

I hear a little company called Bethesda might be doing a small project like that

PP

Elder Scrolls online …IMO is going to take GW2 and Mash it with WoW to satisfy everyone who wants a piece of what they like.
A close friend tied to the gaming indusrty has played it behind closed doors and has said it may make an excellent mash up.
They seem to be taking what GW2 has done..fixing it and then adding elements for traditional MMO players as well… with real elder scrools combat (blocking, dodging, sneaking)…..not to mention you can join the dark brotherhood NPC guild!!!!…thats all the motivation I needed to try i out lol.

It will be worth keeping an eye out.

actually no one from bethesda has any thing to do with the development of the game, also honestly i feel part of teh good part about oblivion is the becoming overpoweredness, and being able to mix and match your charachters build to your liking, dunno how entertaining it will be with game balance (no one can be too powerful or have cool skills) and predefined classes as well as a trinity.

Howcome folks are acting like the trinity is the only way that MMOs can set things up? There have been games before wow, and after wow, that never bothered with it.

Geren.1945:

CMF.5461:

Zeldain.5710:

MistyMountains.3751:

Dont support this- sorry but the holy trinity actually required no real tactics what so ever…played many mmos in my life and action oriented combat will always require more skill and teamwork …

Sorry, didn’t realize it was opposites day.

Not having the trinity results in total, chaotic combat with absolutely zero strategy required and no tactics applied. That’s what we have here in GW2 here now.

Team combat is all but non-existent. It’s a joke of an MMO.

Not totally related, but an fps with no combat roles what so ever has tons of strategy and tactics required in order to hold rooms, clear hallways, and reach objectives.

There isn’t a tank, healer, and dps in counter strike but there are tons of strategies in that game if you want to use them (even if most just zerg a spot)

So positioning and team coordination are still around in non-role oriented combat.

Yet amusingly enough, there are many team based FPS games with classes like Battlefield 3 or PlanetSide 2, which also have medics, who can essentially do what a healers do in MMOs, ie. run around healing team mates and rezzing them when they go down. Incidentally, it’s also very fun and rewarding to do and especially in BF3, where teamplay is rewarded at every turn, and medics are commonly seen on top of the scoreboard, often with only a few actual kills.

I’d like to be a medic in GW2 as well, but GW2 says no and tells me to just hit stuff instead.

Why not both?! You’d surprise yourself when you get it right!

Vasham.2408:

This argument would make perfect sense if GW2 was a game in a different genre. It’s not because like WoW it is an MMORPG. This means GW2 must recognize WoW as it’s direct competition.

Recognition doesn’t require imitation.

Your attitude is why I won’t give Blizzard another dime.

phys.7689:

Angelus.1042:

primuspilus.3856:

than catering to the minority who waant WoW mechanics with GW2 graphics

I hear a little company called Bethesda might be doing a small project like that

PP

Elder Scrolls online …IMO is going to take GW2 and Mash it with WoW to satisfy everyone who wants a piece of what they like.
A close friend tied to the gaming indusrty has played it behind closed doors and has said it may make an excellent mash up.
They seem to be taking what GW2 has done..fixing it and then adding elements for traditional MMO players as well… with real elder scrools combat (blocking, dodging, sneaking)…..not to mention you can join the dark brotherhood NPC guild!!!!…thats all the motivation I needed to try i out lol.

It will be worth keeping an eye out.

actually no one from bethesda has any thing to do with the development of the game, also honestly i feel part of teh good part about oblivion is the becoming overpoweredness, and being able to mix and match your charachters build to your liking, dunno how entertaining it will be with game balance (no one can be too powerful or have cool skills) and predefined classes as well as a trinity.

Zenimax if you want to get technical about it… but then again most people wil automatically think Bethesda… just cause of the previous games…I see either name and know what people mean.

DancingPenguins.9875:

Why not both?! You’d surprise yourself when you get it right!

They don’t want to bother learning. They just want to turn this into another wow clone. Of course, they’ll jump ship as soon as the next MMO comes out and repeat the same cycle.

Sylv.5324:

They don’t want to bother learning. They just want to turn this into another wow clone. Of course, they’ll jump ship as soon as the next MMO comes out and repeat the same cycle.

Wrong. There is nothing to learn. You can get dungeon master in 1 day and solo the “hardest” boss in the game. The mechanics are a joke. Sorry. But I enjoy the game and its casual nature. I will continue to play it just because of how casual I can be, but as a PVE player it is a little pathetic.

Geren.1945:

CMF.5461:

Zeldain.5710:

MistyMountains.3751:

Dont support this- sorry but the holy trinity actually required no real tactics what so ever…played many mmos in my life and action oriented combat will always require more skill and teamwork …

Sorry, didn’t realize it was opposites day.

Not having the trinity results in total, chaotic combat with absolutely zero strategy required and no tactics applied. That’s what we have here in GW2 here now.

Team combat is all but non-existent. It’s a joke of an MMO.

Not totally related, but an fps with no combat roles what so ever has tons of strategy and tactics required in order to hold rooms, clear hallways, and reach objectives.

There isn’t a tank, healer, and dps in counter strike but there are tons of strategies in that game if you want to use them (even if most just zerg a spot)

So positioning and team coordination are still around in non-role oriented combat.

Yet amusingly enough, there are many team based FPS games with classes like Battlefield 3 or PlanetSide 2, which also have medics, who can essentially do what a healers do in MMOs, ie. run around healing team mates and bringing them back up when they go down. Incidentally, it’s also very fun and rewarding to do, and especially in BF3, where teamplay is rewarded at every turn, medics are commonly seen on top of the scoreboard, often with only a few actual kills.

I’d like to be a medic in GW2 as well, but GW2 says no and tells me to just hit stuff instead.

You are not exactly correct, i played exclusively as medic in BF2142 and in GW2 as well. I can do so on my shout heal warrior, my phantasm regen mesmer as well not necessary by healing teammate to full with 1 click. You don’t heal teammate with med kit within 1 sec, correct? the heal in BF is regeneration No? So teammate under fire you are never able to out heal them unless they take cover. Same concept in GW2. Main issue in BF series is the revive usually made faster than healing where in GW2 they are doing correctly.

What i mean by doing medic not only by the mean of giving heal but quick revive also made me a medic. I spec tactics in warrior so i have faster revive speed, while i also use fear on hostiles along with other 2 shout heal so to buying time for quicker revive. Same to my mesmer, i use time warp to increase the revive speed of both me and the downed ally, these combination gain a lot of respect in my dungeon run also some followers, so why don’t you use some creativity to explore more out your class medic potential?

lothefallen.7081:

Lalangamena.3694:

no, trinity is bad thing. whack a mole game is that way —-—————————->

you can fix all the current bad PVE mechanix you mentioned using what the game offers.

with three simple stages:

1) precision is OP and ruins the game, precision needs to be re-defined, it is the single most powerful stat that with small increase in it you double your damage output. and get different ‘on crit perks’ 100% (traits , sigils, foods etc) at the same time.
precision is what drives people to run in full ’zerkers trying to zerg everything…

2) healing power stat coefficient must be increased, it is so underwhelming it is not funny.

3) CC (immobilize, cripple, chill, stun) duration in PVE must be doubled for any meaningful encounter mechanic.

if you implement these three simple points, you don’t need trinity.

CC doubled? ok so there are no skills to remove a snare from an ally…theres no direct support. If you did this, people would die all the time or be forced into taking 3 CC removals. It’s clear that you have no idea how game systems work.

I beg you to learn to read.
CC doubled in PVE like in dungeons and fractals.
not PVP

there is already difference in boon duration between PVP and PVE, why not difference in CC duration in PVE?

Likeing or dislikeing not having tank/healer/dps is about tastes. But saying removing it makes the game more skillful is completly wrong. Maybe, there is a way to do a game without tanks and healers which is more about skill, I’m not sure. But gw2 pve is absolutly not more skillful than a tank/healer game.

I’d love to have tanks and healers in gw2, removing them was an interesting idea, but a failed implementation imo. It doesn’t make gw2 bad, but worse than it could be

Well, I’ll add that removing tanks/healers may add something more difficult, which is randomness. But randomness is the bad kind of difficulty in my opinion.

Complex mechanics are good difficulty, randomness isn’t.

Lalangamena.3694:

lothefallen.7081:

Lalangamena.3694:

no, trinity is bad thing. whack a mole game is that way —-—————————->

you can fix all the current bad PVE mechanix you mentioned using what the game offers.

with three simple stages:

1) precision is OP and ruins the game, precision needs to be re-defined, it is the single most powerful stat that with small increase in it you double your damage output. and get different ‘on crit perks’ 100% (traits , sigils, foods etc) at the same time.
precision is what drives people to run in full ’zerkers trying to zerg everything…

2) healing power stat coefficient must be increased, it is so underwhelming it is not funny.

3) CC (immobilize, cripple, chill, stun) duration in PVE must be doubled for any meaningful encounter mechanic.

if you implement these three simple points, you don’t need trinity.

CC doubled? ok so there are no skills to remove a snare from an ally…theres no direct support. If you did this, people would die all the time or be forced into taking 3 CC removals. It’s clear that you have no idea how game systems work.

I beg you to learn to read.
CC doubled in PVE like in dungeons and fractals.
not PVP

there is already difference in boon duration between PVP and PVE, why not difference in CC duration in PVE?

Ok so holding my ele in place for 8 seconds is okay in PvE, just not in PvP…cause movement and kiting isnt integral in PvE right? Doubling CC would not make for a more tangible strategy or mechanic to react to in any case because there’s no real team synergy…no healer responsible for healing people therefore the CC is marginal..stops your DPS for a bit, lets you gank someone..nothing sophisticated. There is no real combat pressure because there are no roles, you have your own heal button, and everything is a homogenized mushpot. . It’d be a mess and completely imbalanced and you are mental for suggesting it. They’d just gank the **** out of you. What the game needs is a healer class to help define the other classes more, letting them shine of their own merit. A healer that can react with skills and remove that CC, that condition by targeting you…healing you. Would add nothing but depth, social engagement, and more players to the game that like that archetype. I think it would bring more people than the whiny casual console noobs it would send crying to CoD & Halo 4.

Relevant!
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdjtbmkjx61rp7g3w.gif

I very much like the idea that as a warrior i can ressurect anyone i see along the road, that i have banners to aid my party or can immoblize opponents running after a weaker member, asides just jumping in there and doing damage. And that i can heal all around me one way or another (if even by trait that makes my banners give regen).

I can only imagine the horror of downed player hoping that guy running his way is a priest, or a boss party trying to kill a champion with evil stares from mile away cause no priest/tank happened to be in area…

To do what you want on any char you want wins me over bigtime, and all that while keeping characters unique and each a different flavor! and as trinity it’s not gone, it just pulled the stick outta it’s you-know-what, and with proper player skill and setting traits, you can be nearly any of the roles on any of the classes.

For me GW2 is like that a trip to the tropical islands. It’s fun, beutiful and relaxing.
But you really understand how epic it is once you go back to those dark damp places when “you’re not job x”, “how much dps?”, “What’s your hp”, and other old game design horrors.

kal.4350:

Well, I’ll add that removing tanks/healers may add something more difficult, which is randomness. But randomness is the bad kind of difficulty in my opinion.

Complex mechanics are good difficulty, randomness isn’t.

Randomness is why a flexible build is more viable than a specialized build, as there are more differences outcome and possibility during the combat of the same mob. When it happens to go nasty, it is usually comes to build flexibility and player skill to turn the table. There comes the difficulty of randomness.

What is the fun just to fill-in the trinity formula countless of time and the fight remains the same if every step is executed correctly? Randomness is where the fun and personal skill does matter.

We are playing a game where we love to solve or beat with our ways not filling ourselves into empty spaces of the pre-made to win formula. I don’t want to play a part of a only way to win formula, i want to play a game with my own solution to win.

GW2 maybe lack in-depth combat but it also allow tons of way to build our class and win our wayout. For the part of healer or tank, this is a combat oriented game so the damage done by a party is shared so it make sense everyone have to contribute while being a support.

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