Guild Wars 2

Such a classic Anet move:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/preview-of-upcoming-balance-changes/

I wonder if additional “items that augment might gain” will be “toned down”…. (cough, strength runes, cough).

Groan.

I would assume it would be these items they tune down:

We’ll tone down the effects of a couple of specific items with the potential to far exceed the role they’re expected to fill.
Superior Sigil of Battle: The amount of might granted from this item has been reduced from 3 stacks to 2 stacks. The duration remains at 20 seconds.
Major Sigil of Battle: The amount of might granted from this item has been reduced from 2 stacks to 1 stack. The duration remains at 20 seconds.

seeing as that is exactly what they said in the very blog post you linked.

Not even reading the entire post and complaining.

Classic complainers <3

Anyways, I love the little dev notes that they added into each change…cool idea.

Oh wow, this is pure gold.

What seemed misleading to me was listing changes to might in one section and alluding to specific item alterations in that same section but saving the sigil of battle adjustments for a few sections later. This disconnect implied, at least to me, that other items would be affected as well. Perhaps not though, and battle sigils will be the only specific items changed. The layout just seems counter-intuitive and ambiguous.

Good. I think the damage is too kitten high party.

I very much appreciate all the little Dev notes. Thank you for those, it’s nice to see a little insight into the reasoning why things were changed even if I don’t agree with everything. HUGE improvement on how it’s been done where they just give us the change with no explanation. <3

I agree about the little notes. Explaining the rationale for the changes certainly improves communication.

Might nerfed but pretty much every class was buffed to compensate… can’t really complain. I think these changes look pretty good actually.

Dunno what to say. I looked over them and personally i think they are decent balance changes. Ppl have to realize some things really need to be nerfed in order to be more balanced & offer diversity options as in ppl find other alternatives apart from the standard “push full might” option.

Dunno. The changes are decent imo. and not too overdramatic to break the feeling of the game we already got used too.

I love how u saw just a few might nerfs but u completely skipped the good parts.

I wish they would hit stab duration some its still way too easy to have stab up all the time but ya might is simply way too easy to get for what it dose maybe we will see fury become a better boon soon.

People also seem to be missing another big bonus of this reveal… we are indeed getting another patch on the 27th, we aren’t going back on break like many people feared. Hopefully it gives us a nice epilogue to the story.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

People also seem to be missing anything big bonus of t his reveal… we are indeed getting another patch on the 27th, we aren’t going back on break like many people feared. Hopefully it gives us a nice epiloge to the story

They said nothing about the patch on the 27th being a content patch. It seems to be a balance patch, based on their post today.

RoseofGilead.8907:

They said nothing about the patch on the 27th being a content patch. It seems to be a balance patch, based on their post today.

Aye, it probably won’t contain any large content additions, but it would be rather weird for them to have a patch that ONLY involves a bunch of balance changes.

I seem to recall them adding the Epilogue for S1 with some balance changes as well.

This seems like a very minor change to might (30 vs 35) and shouldn’t be felt “too much” by those that max this boon. It doesn’t sound like they are changing the duration at all, just the total value is boosts your stats, which I can live with.

I believe this is actually something people were asking for in spvp (toning down might stacking builds). It seems like a viable approach to what many see as an issue, without damaging other skills/builds/aspects. So we’ll see how it plays out.

I’m liking some of the class tweaks as well.

Really like the confusion and mesmer changes.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

People also seem to be missing another big bonus of this reveal… we are indeed getting another patch on the 27th, we aren’t going back on break like many people feared. Hopefully it gives us a nice epilogue to the story.

Feature/balance patches don’t necessarily include story additions. I haven’t really been paying attention, but I don’t think they usually do. They seem to save the balance / feature patches for after story concludes, as they have here.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

Warriors are going to have a hard time…

lordkrall.7241:

it would be rather weird for them to have a patch that ONLY involves a bunch of balance changes.

Maybe there will be a massive WvW improvement — like another tag color or something!

All this means is that staff eles get even less damage while still being extremely squishy. I love how those ‘good changes’ always seem to affect eles much more strongly than any other profession.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I believe this is actually something people were asking for in spvp (toning down might stacking builds). It seems like a viable approach to what many see as an issue, without damaging other skills/builds/aspects. So we’ll see how it plays out.

I’m liking some of the class tweaks as well.

So, if it spvp asking for it they should make it a pvp only change.

No one needs it taking longer (read: time sync) to kill the same stuff we are already killing. If anything it’s going to make the zerker meta that much more needed to compensate for the damage loss from stacking might. GTHO “i play how i want”. Oh, and none of the buffs the classes are going to get are going to compensate for that much might nerf. None. Zero.

Anet doesn’t know what to do with eles, it’s not THAT bad tbh- eles aren’t supposed to be front runners anyways, atleast thats what anet seems to make clear

Pretty minor nerf. Might will still be most useful in PvE, and I doubt it will noticeably increase time required to kill things in most scenarios.

15% nerf on might stacks, 33% nerf on battle sigil.

This is not going to make the game more interesting.

Chasind.3128:

Anet doesn’t know what to do with eles, it’s not THAT bad tbh- eles aren’t supposed to be front runners anyways, atleast thats what anet seems to make clear

Then what are eles supposed to be? They’re the most squishy, but they’re not allowed to even be among the top damage dealers (let alone the best)?

thefantasticg.3984:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I believe this is actually something people were asking for in spvp (toning down might stacking builds). It seems like a viable approach to what many see as an issue, without damaging other skills/builds/aspects. So we’ll see how it plays out.

I’m liking some of the class tweaks as well.

So, if it spvp asking for it they should make it a pvp only change.

No one needs it taking longer (read: time sync) to kill the same stuff we are already killing. If anything it’s going to make the zerker meta that much more needed to compensate for the damage loss from stacking might. GTHO “i play how i want”. Oh, and none of the buffs the classes are going to get are going to compensate for that much might nerf. None. Zero.

Anet has always, always, always balanced around pvp. It has been that way since GW1, day 1. Near the end of GW1 they started doing some skill splitting, and in some cases where they feel its warranted they do it here. However, they have stated that they want to avoid it if at all possible because it doubles the work load and makes balancing that much more complex.

However, above and beyond all that, this will have very little effect in the grander scheme of pve. Things are still going to melt rapidly to organized groups.

Edit: I don’t stack might, and don’t typically play in organized groups (or with groups at all), and 99% of the content is still a stroll through the park.

Yargesh.4965:

Really like the confusion and mesmer changes.

Thought it might hurt a bit in the few cases where it was NPC mobs that are using confusion on players. The change made confusion stronger in PvE, but didn’t even touch the main reason why it was so much weaker than in PvP.

Also, glad to see the return of GW1-style dev balance notes. It’s going to be a real help in future communications about balance. The changes on the first read (without actually trying them in the game yet) also seem to be okay.

They’re supposed to be the top might/fury buffers and 2nd best combo blasters in general, but reducing the utility of might has reduced the ele’s reason to exist.

Hayashi.3416:

They’re supposed to be the top might/fury buffers and 2nd best combo blasters in general, but reducing the utility of might has reduced the ele’s reason to exist.

This doesn’t change that capacity. They aren’t removing their ability to stack it. They aren’t nerfing the duration in which we can stack it. Only how much total point value it adds per tick. That applies to all classes that stack might.

Confusion will still be pointless in pve.

Might nerf won’t affect highly organized groups in the slightest (1-2s extra per fight won’t change meta in the slightest). terribad pugs wont see much difference since they wouldn’t use might.

The people the might nerf is going to hurt the most is reasonable pugs – and those who are being carried because they are given might stacks.

All this does is reinforce ZERK meta further. Because now pugs will require zerk to have enough damage. Be this dungeons, 3 headed wurm etc.

Not that I mind in the slightest people being forced further into learning the meta, and playing better. Or being forced into guilds to organize properly for “organized content” (e.g dungeons, 3h wurm). GL out there casual carried players, looks like you might have to put in your share of the effort.

tl;dr

People are QQing enough about things like the 3h wurm being too hard to organize.
Now you’re gonna need zerker + meta build enforcement on a larger proportion of the zerg. Not to mention almost every other place people have to should be working together.

dlonie.6547:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

People also seem to be missing another big bonus of this reveal… we are indeed getting another patch on the 27th, we aren’t going back on break like many people feared. Hopefully it gives us a nice epilogue to the story.

Feature/balance patches don’t necessarily include story additions. I haven’t really been paying attention, but I don’t think they usually do. They seem to save the balance / feature patches for after story concludes, as they have here.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

Dlonie is correct. Recent history of patches has been balance/features being independent of storyline.

The overall viability of a class that stacks more might is reduced more than the overall viability of a class that stacks zero might, when the effectiveness of might is reduced. That should be relatively apparent. The elementalists and PS warriors stack the most might, and so they are hit the hardest.

Confusion is useful for certain targets, especially the decapitated jungle wurm heads. And yes, non-zerk builds that traditionally relied on might to make up the difference are hit hardest – among which the rampager, knight, sinister and assassin types take the largest hit. Reduction of overall damage potential makes ‘tankier’ builds more viable in a PvP/WvW context, but changes nothing in PvE under the assumption the player can stay alive the whole time. Alternatives to berserker are now in a worse position than before.

Coupled with the bleed nerf, the specific build that will be most greatly disadvantaged would be the hybrid crit-based grenadier engineer, but it seems there are few enough of them that one hasn’t shown up to complain yet.

Narrowing the reward for might-based play also effectively reduces the gap in overall effectiveness between less and more skilled players, so WvW would now favour numbers over skill more than before.

Mistress of Trade.8746:

Chasind.3128:

Anet doesn’t know what to do with eles, it’s not THAT bad tbh- eles aren’t supposed to be front runners anyways, atleast thats what anet seems to make clear

Then what are eles supposed to be? They’re the most squishy, but they’re not allowed to even be among the top damage dealers (let alone the best)?

What do you mean exactly? Ele’s current have the highest dps by about a 10% margin. Thieves can do slightly higher burst, but they don’t have the sustain.

Plus the might nerf effects all classes, it probably hurts warriors the most.

Does it mean that the incoming damage from confusion in PvE will increase as well … ?

Dalanor.5387:

Does it mean that the incoming damage from confusion in PvE will increase as well … ?

I expect so.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

dlonie.6547:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

People also seem to be missing another big bonus of this reveal… we are indeed getting another patch on the 27th, we aren’t going back on break like many people feared. Hopefully it gives us a nice epilogue to the story.

Feature/balance patches don’t necessarily include story additions. I haven’t really been paying attention, but I don’t think they usually do. They seem to save the balance / feature patches for after story concludes, as they have here.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

Dlonie is correct. Recent history of patches has been balance/features being independent of storyline.

But there is no feature pack (because they take 3 weeks to reveal those) and as far as I can tell there has never been a balance patch that wasn’t also tied in with either a features patch or a holiday or a story patch. There is no holiday, and there is no feature patch, so I assume this balance patch will have some elements of story in it as well. The changes certainly don’t seem significant enough to launch them all by themselves.

So in the end we wil get 750 Power and condition damage max at 25 stacks instead of 875. Well I figure: with empower allies and banner it is still 1070 power and 920 condition damage.

So I’ll go from 2750 (with food) +1195 (might and buffs)= 3945 with my pug carrier
to 3820… 3820/3945= 3.5% nerf on Zerk Pug Carrier Warrior.

I do not mind, It will reduce the zerker meta a bit, and as other builds have been buffed a bit It should work out alright.

A few question to devs though:
If you do this and you run a pet build with ranger, you’ll be nerfed doubly, as both the pet and the ranger will be hit by the loss of 125 power… How will you compensate this??

It is a bigger problem for Hybrid builds (power/condi) requiring might stacking and seeing might being reduced for both power and condition damage. How will you compensate for this?

Will you consider an upgrade to base damage AND/or damage scaling on “condition weapons” as well? Sword for warrior, scepter for necro, and mesmer, staff for mesmer SB and axe for ranger and conditin odffhands of course?

Again this might nerf is about power. But condition damage ALSO scales with might,. This will be nerfed as well. The effects of a potential nerf for condition damage would again lower the damage potential of a part of the meta already shunned by most of the people playing wvw and pve at the moment. how are you going to deal with this?

Please Anet, from this moment on, always do these Explanations. Big +1
They are such a great help for a better understanding.

Alot of great changes are incoming and finalyl something where i really must say for the very first time, that this will be the very first Balance Patch ,where not the Thief will get only nerfed further into the Ground, while all other Classes get mostly buffed only.

This patch will just have something great for everyone.
A small step into the right direct, but in my opinion still alot of things to do for Balance.
Find it somehow sad and somehow good, that anet focusses this time on Skills only and makes no changes and improvements to Traits.

Thief Traits are still after 2 and a half years mostly a huge mess sadly and need finally to get merged a bit to make space for some new more useful traits and to improve the overall gameplay for the thief, so that they can provide also a bit more Support, other than only Stealth or Venoms, which requires to use way too much traits to be useful for Group Support. Alot of the Utility Skill should get merged too imo to give Thieves something new and more useful for overall support in a different way, other than only Stealth.
Its so obvious, that certain of their utilities would be better for the game when being merged, cause otherwise they get rarely used at all, if at all.
And Anet has to do finally something agaisnt alot of their skills being unuseable in underwater combat by either removing the underwater restrictions or adding to the land versions also new underwater changed versions, like Tornado alters to Maelstrom for Elementalists.
Such Skill Design has to be done alot more for all Classes, if underwater gameplay should ever become more fun in this game at all!

Who uses Blinding Power, which stealths you for a few seconds and has 40s of CD, if you coud use also instead Smoke Sceen, which can stealth you much longer as also your allies when being blast finished which has also just only 30s of CD and can be used by that much more frequently than BP. 10s more CD just for a single Blinding which can be removed by a single weapon swing, is ridiculous!!
Those two Utility Skills for an easy examplle would be much better off for this game to be merged together, as both skilsl are just about Stealth only and one of them is already superior massively over the other in case of Support, that it makes no sense to use the other Utility Skill over theclear better one.

Blinding Powder, Shadow Refuge and Smoke Screen should be merged together into “Smoke Powder”/ Changes underwater then to Shadow Refuge which creates just a large AoE Stealth, which blinds at the same time foes that enter it over the duration per pulse, while stealthed allies receive a healing and regeneration from the pulses of Smoke Powder, while ranged attacks get blocked/absorbed while standing in the Stealth Field.

That way would there be space instantly for 2 alot more useful new Deception Utilities

Example for:

Shadow Doppelganger CD 60s
Summons your Shadow to fight alongside you for the next 30s.
When used, the original profitates from all positive effect that the Shadow Doppelganger gains, for example, if the Doppelganger leeches health, the original gaisn Health too, if he gains healths due to the on hit healing signet skill, the original gets these heals too, if the clone cures a condition, the original loses one too and so on
If the doppelganger dies, the original will gain for a short moment protection, retaliation and stability.

Shadow Absorbtion CD 40s
Stun break. You lose 3 conditions and for every cured Condition, you gain 3s of Stealth.
When attacking a foe with your Stealth Attack, the Stealth Attack will deal addiotionally to its normal effect also the 3 absorbed Conditions and removes 1 Boon before of this from the foe.

That would be 2 alot more useful Deception Skills that could get implemented, if Anet would juts merge Blinding Powder, Shadow Refuge and Smoke Screen together under “Smoke Powder” or better “Smoke Bomb” and would rename for this better Skill Name then the Downed Skill Smoke Bomb to “Blinding Powder”

God, I’d kill for making these improvements for the Thief Class just happen xD ^^ lol

It’s a bit strange that one of the hardest hit stat combinations is Sinister, which was their most recently introduced stat combination. ‘One of’, because Rampager suffers even more.

@Orpheal: The point of shadow powder is that it requires no blast finisher to stealth, and has no mandatory radius. Blast finishers cause Revealed when used in the presence of nearby targets.

It’s a mainstay for finishing off the downed together with the more effective but harder to use Shadowstep, as well as for running away from fights going south. You won’t, generally, ever use shadow powder in PvE though, and usage of Shadow Refuge in PvP/WvW applications against any player who half understands the SR mechanic leads to a downed thief. It happens a lot, and there are a lot of downed thieves.

Suggestions on thief skill changes is entirely irrelevant to the topic however.

Dalanor.5387:

Does it mean that the incoming damage from confusion in PvE will increase as well … ?

Mostly it will be a buff for mobs i think, since in PvE mobs that deal conditions are mostly
much more a problem than direct damage .. while conditions against mobs are not
really that great.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

What do you mean exactly? Ele’s current have the highest dps by about a 10% margin. Thieves can do slightly higher burst, but they don’t have the sustain.

Plus the might nerf effects all classes, it probably hurts warriors the most.

Eles rely on Sigil of Battle more than any other profession, so they’re hit the hardest.

Also, they may do 10% more damage but they only have 50% of the survivability of other professions. Equalizing that means they’re losing their only advantage.

Also, while d/d eles are compensated, staff eles are (again) nerfed because the other specs are a problem.

A good nerf would have been a damage reduction of conjure frostbow.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Edit: I don’t stack might, and don’t typically play in organized groups (or with groups at all), and 99% of the content is still a stroll through the park.

I do stack might. I do typically play in organized groups. I’m guessing you don’t do high level fractals in any efficient manner whatsoever… And you’re part of the waste your time and play the least efficient way possible crowd. That’s fine. You do that. But I don’t need Anet making the time sync of completing dungeons and fractals longer than it already is. I don’t want to “stroll” through content. I want to complete it as fast as possible given I’ve already done it 500+ times. I’ll definitely notice on my Ranger the nerf to might. Just like I noticed the difference after the “animation fix” to the Ranger short bow nerfing it’s total damage output.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

So in the end we wil get 750 Power and condition damage max at 25 stacks instead of 875. Well I figure: with empower allies and banner it is still 1070 power and 920 condition damage.

So I’ll go from 2750 (with food) +1195 (might and buffs)= 3945 with my pug carrier
to 3820… 3820/3945= 3.5% nerf on Zerk Pug Carrier Warrior.

---

I do not mind, It will reduce the zerker meta a bit, and as other builds have been buffed a bit It should work out alright.

A few question to devs though:
If you do this and you run a pet build with ranger, you’ll be nerfed doubly, as both the pet and the ranger will be hit by the loss of 125 power… How will you compensate this??

It is a bigger problem for Hybrid builds (power/condi) requiring might stacking and seeing might being reduced for both power and condition damage. How will you compensate for this?
Will you consider an upgrade to base damage AND/or damage scaling on “condition weapons” as well? Sword for warrior, scepter for necro, and mesmer, staff for mesmer SB and axe for ranger and conditin odffhands of course?

Again this might nerf is about power. But condition damage ALSO scales with might,. This will be nerfed as well. The effects of a potential nerf for condition damage would again lower the damage potential of a part of the meta already shunned by most of the people playing wvw and pve at the moment. how are you going to deal with this?

They’re not going to “do” anything about the things you outlined. Like someone in my guild said: all enemies were going to get a health buff or start making us hit like wet noodles. They’re taking the wet noodle route.

thefantasticg.3984:

I’m guessing you don’t do high level fractals in any efficient manner whatsoever… And you’re part of the waste your time and play the least efficient way possible crowd.

FYI (from another meta zerk), it is possible to compare your playstyle to someone else’s without being a complete d // bag.

Just sayin’.

To everyone else: Please don’t think all meta players are like this.

Yup, got tired of not being a d \\ bag because I’m tired of the bads ruining the game by convincing Anet to nerf things they can’t do, like play zerk builds.

Mossy Gargoyle.3274:

I agree about the little notes. Explaining the rationale for the changes certainly improves communication.

Darn right. This is how patch notes should be. <3 Anet. You’re doing good things.

appreciate the dev notes being there, hope they continue to do stuff like that

Added note these changes are coming fast this time is this a LS update or a feature update?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Mistress of Trade.8746:

Chasind.3128:

Anet doesn’t know what to do with eles, it’s not THAT bad tbh- eles aren’t supposed to be front runners anyways, atleast thats what anet seems to make clear

Then what are eles supposed to be? They’re the most squishy, but they’re not allowed to even be among the top damage dealers (let alone the best)?

What do you mean exactly? Ele’s current have the highest dps by about a 10% margin. Thieves can do slightly higher burst, but they don’t have the sustain.

Plus the might nerf effects all classes, it probably hurts warriors the most.

Actually, no. Elementalists hold the highest burst damage by a fair margin as well as DPS. It’s just on two different builds, where the thief DPS/burst comes from one build with a utility skill swap, and played slightly differently.

I’m not fond of the huge confusion duration increases, though. I actively don’t like the way confusion currently works in PvP environments and believe it was already too strong as a condition. We’ll see where it goes, though.

thefantasticg.3984:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Edit: I don’t stack might, and don’t typically play in organized groups (or with groups at all), and 99% of the content is still a stroll through the park.

I do stack might. I do typically play in organized groups. I’m guessing you don’t do high level fractals in any efficient manner whatsoever… And you’re part of the waste your time and play the least efficient way possible crowd. That’s fine. You do that. But I don’t need Anet making the time sync of completing dungeons and fractals longer than it already is. I don’t want to “stroll” through content. I want to complete it as fast as possible given I’ve already done it 500+ times. I’ll definitely notice on my Ranger the nerf to might. Just like I noticed the difference after the “animation fix” to the Ranger short bow nerfing it’s total damage output.

I love how you immediately label me (and others) as those that are just a “waste of time” and must obviously be the least efficient because we don’t necessarily feel we have to optimize every second of our game play. You’re making a lot of assumptions there. Some of us don’t like treating the game like a gods be kitten ed job.

No, I don’t do high level fractals (mainly cause I don’t enjoy fractals). I do dungeons though. I highly doubt this is going to have as much impact as you (and many others) are up in arms about. It’s not going to become a time sink, as you are all screaming about.

Now, if they removed might completely, yes that would significantly impact the amount of time it takes to melt a boss.

If you can’t handle an extra five minutes (if that), then you might want to consider doing something else with your obviously limited and extremely precious time.

Ah, so I was correct in my labeling. My assumptions were also correct. Some of us enjoy getting things done quickly. Others, like yourself, don’t get enjoyment from doing thing efficiently. I don’t get any enjoyment from PVP, others do. The difference is I don’t scream at the top of my lungs on the forum for Anet to nerf classes in PVP because they are OP in PVE… If you see doing things efficiently as a job, that is your problem, not mine.

It’s not the one instance of using the five extra minutes, it is the cumulative effective of those five extra minutes of every run. They add up. I know you were looking at the short time but I was looking long term effect. Not only that, more DPS nerfs will come in the future. That has been the trend for the 2 years I’ve been playing.