Guild Wars 2

NoZaku.7120:

Fiontar.4695:

NoZaku.7120:

the biggest thing i hate about the infusions is it will basically make runes, sigils, crests and gems obsolete.

because you have to use infusions to further progress in PvE.

No, they don’t. Infusions are specifically geared to allowing players to push deeper into the difficulty of Fractals of the Mist. They have nothing to do with any other form of PvE play; world PvE nor non-FotM Dungeons.

FotM is a pretty unique take on the Dungeon Crawl. I see FotM as almost separate mode of play in the same way that sPvP and WvW are almost games with in a game. Some people will dedicate much time and effort to FotM. Some will dablle and others will ignore the dungeon entirely and find there fun elsewhere.

I will be shocked beyond belief if Infusions ever are needed for progression in World PvE or in any of the other Dungeons available in game. I can’t rule out some other form of PvE content in the future that would take advantage of infusions, but Arenanet seems committed to expanding FotM on a fairly regular basis in the months and years to come. It’s possible we may see more stand-alone dungeons in the future, but I have a feeling that FotM will be the main focus for ongoing Dungeon development.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/
read the “The Future of item progression”

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

its heavily implied that infusions is needed to further progress in end game PvE content

It’s heavily implied by piecing together all the Arenanet and officially sourced third part articles that FotM is the framework with in which evolving “end game” content will be housed. I have to keep going back to the article that stated that FotM will be regularly expanded over the months and YEARS to come.

It is entirely possible, if not probable, that the eventuality of full sets of Ascended Gear could be a year or two down the road.

Look, I am really hoping there will be some degree of isolation between the gear inflation introduced to provide progression through FotM and the rest of the game world. A semi-isolated gear treadmill is a lot more acceptable to me than one that bleeds heavily out into the rest of the game. If this is not the case in actuality, it’s something I will push for. I don’t want out of control gear inflation ruining this game.

To be honest, I just can’t imagine Arenanet risking the game with anything other than a very measured approach to introducing an ongoing end game progression for those who desire such a thing. If I’m wrong and we are on the path to Ascended Gear that will completely trivialize Exotics and becomes a requirement for content outside of FotM, I’ll be grabbing my own pitchfork.

However, we do not have enough information to make that determination. IF we should be able to discern a clear, ongoing path to spiraling gear inflation, it will be a very good thing that the introduction of the system is just Rings and Back Armor, as it will be much easier to win a scaling back of future inflation due to the incomplete nature of the initial “sample” of the new system.

I have to give Arenanet the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. If we do need a fight, we’ll have plenty of time to try to shape the direction of the new system with out throwing up our hands and boycotting or rage quitting.

The subject is currently 90% speculation and rage/fear/recrimination are wasted with out more fact and meaningful dialogue with the developers.

http://i.imgur.com/BeyFB.png

I dont know why people are getting bent out of shape over this ring, it’s not even that good…unless you want all stats?! Berserker is higher dps stats.

Fiontar.4695:

NoZaku.7120:

Fiontar.4695:

NoZaku.7120:

the biggest thing i hate about the infusions is it will basically make runes, sigils, crests and gems obsolete.

because you have to use infusions to further progress in PvE.

No, they don’t. Infusions are specifically geared to allowing players to push deeper into the difficulty of Fractals of the Mist. They have nothing to do with any other form of PvE play; world PvE nor non-FotM Dungeons.

FotM is a pretty unique take on the Dungeon Crawl. I see FotM as almost separate mode of play in the same way that sPvP and WvW are almost games with in a game. Some people will dedicate much time and effort to FotM. Some will dablle and others will ignore the dungeon entirely and find there fun elsewhere.

I will be shocked beyond belief if Infusions ever are needed for progression in World PvE or in any of the other Dungeons available in game. I can’t rule out some other form of PvE content in the future that would take advantage of infusions, but Arenanet seems committed to expanding FotM on a fairly regular basis in the months and years to come. It’s possible we may see more stand-alone dungeons in the future, but I have a feeling that FotM will be the main focus for ongoing Dungeon development.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/
read the “The Future of item progression”

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

its heavily implied that infusions is needed to further progress in end game PvE content

It’s heavily implied by piecing together all the Arenanet and officially sourced third part articles that FotM is the framework with in which evolving “end game” content will be housed. I have to keep going back to the article that stated that FotM will be regularly expanded over the months and YEARS to come.

It is entirely possible, if not probable, that the eventuality of full sets of Ascended Gear could be a year or two down the road.

Look, I am really hoping there will be some degree of isolation between the gear inflation introduced to provide progression through FotM and the rest of the game world. A semi-isolated gear treadmill is a lot more acceptable to me than one that bleeds heavily out into the rest of the game. If this is not the case in actuality, it’s something I will push for. I don’t want out of control gear inflation ruining this game.

To be honest, I just can’t imagine Arenanet risking the game with anything other than a very measured approach to introducing an ongoing end game progression for those who desire such a thing. If I’m wrong and we are on the path to Ascended Gear that will completely trivialize Exotics and becomes a requirement for content outside of FotM, I’ll be grabbing my own pitchfork.

However, we do not have enough information to make that determination. IF we should be able to discern a clear, ongoing path to spiraling gear inflation, it will be a very good thing that the introduction of the system is just Rings and Back Armor, as it will be much easier to win a scaling back of future inflation due to the incomplete nature of the initial “sample” of the new system.

I have to give Arenanet the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. If we do need a fight, we’ll have plenty of time to try to shape the direction of the new system with out throwing up our hands and boycotting or rage quitting.

The subject is currently 90% speculation and rage/fear/recrimination are wasted with out more fact and meaningful dialogue with the developers.

I dont think its rage quitting at this point. Its a “I was told this wouldn’t happen and guess what happened so Im leaving” matter. While I am not going to pick up the game again until this is fixed (which I sincerely hope it will be), I am perfectly willing to discuss this as long as it takes.

The real problem here is we are in the bunkering down phase of a pr disaster. The only real impact that can be made is by not letting up on the discourse and continuing it nonstop. I just have to wonder if the “we will give out items” that a few reds have said are faux olive branches. Actually Im pretty sure they are, hopefully we can weather that and keep discussing and pressuring arenanet to not kill their game.

Fiontar.4695:

Crater.1625:

Fiontar.4695:

By the outrage expressed by the vocal minority, you’d think that they had spent hundreds of hours earning the Exotic Gear that will no longer be the pinnacle of power as Ascended gear enters the game! The easiest to acquire Exotics just do not take very long, no matter which of the available paths you chose to take in acquiring them. Arenanet isn’t trivializing some extremely long and difficult Exotic gear grind with some arbitrary gear inflation treadmill.

As of now, with full Exotic gear I have maxed out equipment.

Once Ascended gear hits, I am one tier under maxed out equipment.

Functionally, this patch is exactly the same as if ArenaNet had taken away all of my equipment, and replaced it with Rares.

And to get my ‘Exotics’ (ie: top-level gear) back, I have to run on the arbitrary gear inflation treadmill for what seems to be, according to all concrete information released so far, hundreds of hours of grinding.

I have three level 80s. I play all three. One is fully equipped with Exotics. One is half equipped and one has only rares. I have zero problem playing what ever content I want with my Exotic free character. I pursue my Exotics for the sense of progression, not because I need them.

The only people who ostensibly “need” Ascended gear will be people pushing the difficulty limits in Fractals of the Mist and those people will aquire it as part of the natural progression. Arenanet has said that Ascended Gear will be available via other routes, not just FotM, including WvW. For the WvW-centric players, that gear will come as they play the game.

If you plan on delving deeply into FotM, You’ll get your ascended gear in a natural progression, your exotics just being another stepping stone along the way, like every other piece of armor you aquired from levels 1-80. If you WvW, you will eventually aquire your Ascended gear and maintain your gear parity with the other WvW-centric players. If you aren’t interested in WvW or FotM, you’ll still have some ways of acquiring Ascended gear, but let’s be honest, outside of WvW or FotM, there is no actual need for Ascended gear, other than to provide a sense of progression for those who want/need it.

As to what changes tomorrow, let’s put things into perspective. Yes, with the shortage of back armor in the game, the ascended back armor will be desirable. However, as far as I’m aware, there are no current exotic or even rare back armors in the game, so ascended back armor is not trivializing your previous efforts by offering something new and improved. The only other Ascended gear at this time are rings. Are people really going to get bent out of shape because there will now be upgrades to pursue for two exotic rings? Really?

Perspective.

Besides, what gear inflation there is in the jump to Ascended Gear is miniscule compared to the routinely ongoing gear inflation in almost every other MMORPG we’ve seen in the last ten years and is literally nothing compared to the gear inflation seen with full expansions for games like WoW, where the new Greens often render obsolete gear that took hundreds of hours progressing through multiple tiers of raids to acquire.

Perspective.

How about this for perspective? People are estimating 70+ hrs per piece of ascended gear. One character uses 17+ pieces for a single build. And this will not be the end of it…

Altair.6109:

Fiontar.4695:

Slic.2406:

Derk.3189:

its +5 condition damage, on top of the already higher base stats. and thats with a FINE infusion. Imagine what an ascended infusion would do?

That’s only a blue-level infusion? Umm…

…

Ok, well. That means an orange-level infusion would be ~4x that, so.. ~20 cond damage. No concrete evidence in this case, but if you compare blue to orange on existing pieces of gear, that’s about right.

So actually. It’s not just a 40-50% increase to primary stats. With the high-end, grind-your-face-off infusions (that they are saving ’till we grind-our-face-off getting these crappier ones), the overall primary stat increase of ascended over exotic would be closer to 75%. GG? Ah, if I could spend the 60 bucks I spent on GW2 on a time trip back to GW1 instead…

You are making a lot of assumptions and your math makes zero sense on top of it all.

Tomorrow we will have the ability to earn Ascended Rings, Ascended Back Armor and Fine Infusions. NOT a big deal. As the system expands over time, (perhaps over a pretty long time, considering they’ve already said that FotM will be expanding over the months and years ahead), Arenanet will make what ever adjustments to the system they need to make.

You and others are imagining the worst possibilities when you fill in the vast blanks that exist in our knowledge of Ascended Gear and Infusions, extrapolate forward on those negatively biased guesses and then assume that the entire thing is set in stone, with no adjustments to ensure that the quest for ascended gear does ruin all other elements of game play.

Rings, Back Armor, Fine Infusions. Example stat comparison showing an ~ 8% stat boost between Exotic Rings and Ascended Rings. That’s what we know. Let’s fill in a lot more blanks with facts before we start crying that the sky is falling and also offer Arenanet some benefit of the doubt before deciding that they are somehow determined to ruin the game with some new arbitrary gear inflation!

yea let’s just cry after it’s too late. Ata boy!

Do you really think that if tirades don’t somehow stop Ascended Gear before this weekend that it will be somehow “too late”? Really? Meaningful analysis and dialogue between the fan base and the developers can’t even begin until we know a lot more than we know now and we have the chance to evaluate these initial toe dips into gear inflation within the context of the game.

It’s not a levy that once broken sets in motion a flood that can’t be stopped or attenuated.

Overly aggressive gear inflation is likely to be opposed by many and the community will have a good chance to rein it in as part of a give and take between players and developers.

Freaking out based on so little fact and so many fears/assumptions is pointless and counterproductive.

True debate will start once the initial stage of the system goes live and we have time to really understand it with in the context of the game. Spoiling the new system will no longer be a concern and a more complete explanation and the potential for meaningful dialogue with the developers will be possible.

Aww, I am sort of sad to see this. Well, maybe wary would be a better word. I am not big on dungeons and I don’t PvP/WvW, my main thing is having fun with alts and making them all look pretty.

Exotics I can get, sure thing, but this new stuff? Looks like a pain, and I have no intention of getting it. Which would be ok in and of itself . . . but I worry about the stat bump’s potential other effects. Basically, in other games I have seen, as they release new PvE content (not just raids/dungeons) for max level, it seems to get a bit harder each time because they assume players are wearing better gear. Which I will not be.

I guess this is a bit of a dilemma that comes with having a noticeable discrepancy in max level gear power. If mostly everyone is wearing the same stuff (exotics at 80), it is easy to make content that is the “right” difficulty level for everyone. But if you have some people in more powerful gear, they might find things “too easy” if it is designed with players wearing exotics in mind. But do it the other way, and the layers in exotics may find it “too hard”.

Oh well, I might be worrying about nothing. I don’t have much experience, so this is just a worry of mine.

Fiontar.4695:

It is entirely possible, if not probable, that the eventuality of full sets of Ascended Gear could be a year or two down the road.

Doesn’t matter to me if this is true or not. I didn’t buy GW2 to play one character and one set of gear that I spent 1000 hours grinding so that I can keep spamming ‘1’ ‘2’ and ‘3’ all day long. I also didn’t buy it to be stuck in the original content forever because I don’t want to do the above. They effectively killed a ton of variety and content for me.

This is an exotic power(main) + toughness(secondary) + vitality(secondary) ring: http://www.gw2db.com/items/47737-invaders-ring

This is the same ring, but ascended: http://www.gw2db.com/items/71369-lost-seal-of-usoku

Not including the gem stats (which are already included in ascended gear), we can apply simple math to figure out that exotic → ascended ring is a ~7% stat increase. 67 + 48 + 48 vs 72 + 51 + 51.

While I can’t find an exquisite (exotic) jewel that’s power(main) + toughness(secondary) + vitality(secondary), the gem stats are 25 + 15 + 15, as seen in gems such as http://www.gw2db.com/items/20922-exquisite-emerald-jewel-s.

The already-included gem in the ascended ring is 32 + 18 + 18. Using similar math to as we already applied, we can figure out that the ascended gem is about 24% more powerful than the exotic gem.

So now we combine the two. 67 + 48 + 48 + 25 + 15 + 15 vs 72 + 51 + 51 + 32 + 18 + 18. Simple math one more time, and we now know that, not including the infusion gem, ascended rings have 11% more stats than exotic rings. The only infusion gems that appear to be released have 5 of one stat, not including agony resistance. If we add this into the equation, ascended rings WITH a blue infusion gem have 13.3% more stats than exotic rings.

Hm, I was expecting infusions to be just about protection against agony (defensive) or more dmg against mobs that inflict agony (offensive). But if what the OP claims is true, then I give up. I really don’t want to start another gear treadmill.
It is to be expected that upcoming content in later stages will be balanced against those raised stats. So exotics will be the new yellows or greens even. I hate games that use gear to gate content.

Timebomb thats just with a blue infusion? Scary to think what a higher rank one would do. Would we be hitting around the 15 % mark with an exotic or ascendent infusion you think?

Nah man. Ascendant accessories don’t have upgrade slots. So, it’s fair to give stats with the infusion. Exotics are still better stat wise with the upgrades~

Yeah I know ascendant stuff doesnt have room for orbs and runes.

Stop trolling haters.

Clever.7918:

http://i.imgur.com/BeyFB.png

I dont know why people are getting bent out of shape over this ring, it’s not even that good…unless you want all stats?! Berserker is higher dps stats.

This.

People are calculating allocated stat totals without taking into consideration if those stats are actually relevant simultaneously.

A couple of points:

A) Most players use specialised builds that favour a small number of stats. This means that the current ascended gear we’ve seen is NOT ideal for their builds.

B) Runes/sigils are baked into the equipment which means we have NO way to customise those stats. Again this makes the old exotics potentially better.

C) Ascended gear means we lose rune set bonuses. There are a number of builds that are entirely built around these set bonuses which will not work with ascended gear.

The ascended items seem to have a higher allocation of stat points at a rather hefty cost of customisation and specialisation. I still think people should wait and see.

Crater.1625:

Because:

1) None of those tiers except Exotic has ever been positioned as 100% of maximum power. If the game had launched with only White, Fine, Masterwork, and Rare, and ArenaNet was just now introducing Exotic equipment, I would have exactly the same reaction.

2) The functionality of Exotic gear is relatively easily obtained. I could stand to see it lowered, but 1.5-3g per piece for a cheap (ie: crafted) Exotic piece of equipment is easy enough to obtain that I can grit my teeth and push through the grind.

In comparison, Ascended equipment 1) Is being introduced after Exotics are already established as the top tier of equipment, meaning that the introduction of Ascended equipment is a functional downgrade to every piece of existing equipment in the game. If Exotics are now 100% of max power, they’ll be 90% once Ascended is in the game; if Rares are now 90% of max power, they’ll be only 80% once Ascended is introduced, and so on. And 2) The amount of grind to get one piece of Ascended equipment, from all the information we’ve been given so far, is, at the absolute minimum, on par with the amount of grind needed to get an entire, full set of dungeon equipment. That’s more of a grind than I would ever put up with for a non-cosmetic upgrade in a game.

So based on what you are saying, you care about what stats are on your gear, and given that the only place that has ANY relevance what so ever is in WvW I can conclude that you are primarily a WvW player.

Welp, I didn’t see you on the forums complaining about people having exotic gear while you only had rare gear, and based on what you said it’s because exotics were the top tier of gear already present in the game, the problem with not complaining about the rare/exotic difference is that as soon as ascended gear enters the game it will be the EXACT same scenario as rare/exotic and again, the only place that that had a difference was WvW, but due to the nature of WvW never being able to be balanced (even remotely) it’s a non-issue.

So as far as I can tell, you are complaining about ANet adding gear to the game that has better stats than exotics but the only way (at present) to get it is through doing some content… well how about that, you have to play the game to get stuff for the game? Just like the monthly achievement it’s completely optional, and just like the monthly achievement if you want the reward you’ll do the content regardless of what it is.

Lastly, the only element of the game this affects is WvW and if you want to have the best gear in WvW (because you have the mentality that stats mean everything right?) then you will go get the best gear regardless of what it takes, if WvW isn’t what you primarily do then… there’s actually nothing to complain about because it doesn’t affect your experience in the game in ANY way, shape or form.

Fiontar.4695:

It’s not a levy that once broken sets in motion a flood that can’t be stopped or attenuated.

in a sense it really is something that cannot be corrected.

sure they can turn around and make the items super easy to get which would alleviate the treadmill concerns, but there is a much larger issue that cannot be corrected.

once the majority of players get mad and leave, you can never get them to come back.
while they might be able to correct the game for an individual, its doubtful that the game will ever fully recover from this debacle if something does not happen very quickly.

if this is allowed to fester as it stands for the next month it will essentially be corporate suicide on the game.

Hi, im worried about the ascended gear and infusions like all of you, well half of you the others are quiting i guess. I thought always that GW2 expansions will introduce some new types of weapons, skills and perphaps since i didnt think gear was an option they will get some new form to customizate skills making them have combos or pres key in the right time stuff, that make the character progression go forward but prizes skills not how fast is my new car (gear). I even dreamed in some events, dungeons, npcs, jumping puzles minidungeons, metaevents, opcional bosses, character history that let you learn this customizations that then you can choice to use (like we abilitate certain traits). Never thought that i will need to get new gear, perphaps new kinds of runes ans sigils like with Hallowing but not more powerfull ones. I have fun like in years withthis game and trained in my mesmer so that when i play concentrated i really do it good, like i did with actions games like the Devil may cry serie in the more difficult modes.
Now im disapointed, but im a positive person so i think that perphaps (only perphaps im not dumb to think it will be lol) first our exotic gear would be the base for making ascended gear, and we would need some easy stuff to get for crafting them. Second making that suposition that ascended gear would only have 1 level the problem would be the infusions and their scale. I supose that is true theres gonna be some infusions varieties in power, but i think they would be first easy to get and second limited, so we will get like 3 or 4 levels of infusion and then stop the stats boost. But what will happen with the agony resistence, well easy lol: the agoony resistence get better but not the stats!!!. Also i positivly supose the runes and sigils, gems,etc would be the mats for the infusions and they would be relativly easy to get.
I hope that a lot of people ask arena net for just limiting this WoW lovers in GW 2 stuff to what i think and ask for skill customization in base a apropiate times, combinations, etc that make skills what is necesary, always putting some easy ones for the unskilled but the best for the more skilled (and after all we all learn so we get more skilled). I hopevery difficult content coming and that the WoW mentallity get crushed. Is nice to have good exotic gear but what the nice gear must dois catalizate and create a sinergetic effect with the skills of the player not to be a substitute for the lack of skills.
II thank you if you read this and im sorry for my bad english, is not my first language. Have fun, be in GW2, other game and principally your whole life .

Coffeebot.3921:

So based on what you are saying, you care about what stats are on your gear, and given that the only place that has ANY relevance what so ever is in WvW I can conclude that you are primarily a WvW player.

Welp, I didn’t see you on the forums complaining about people having exotic gear while you only had rare gear, and based on what you said it’s because exotics were the top tier of gear already present in the game, the problem with not complaining about the rare/exotic difference is that as soon as ascended gear enters the game it will eb the EXACT same scenario as rare/exotic and again, the only place that that had a difference was WvW, but due to the nature of WvW never being able to be balanced (even remotely) it’s a non-issue.

So as far as I can tell, you are complaining about ANet adding gear to the game that has better stats than exotics but the only way (at present) to get it is through doing some content… well how about that, you have to play the game to get stuff for the game? Just like the monthly achievement it’s completely optional, and just like the monthly achievement if you want the reward you’ll do the content regardless of what it is.

Lastly, the only element of the game this affects is WvW and if you want to have the best gear in WvW (because you have the mentality that stats mean everything right?) then you will go get the best gear regardless of what it takes, if WvW isn’t what you primarily do then… there’s actually nothing to complain about because it doesn’t affect your experience in the game in ANY way, shape or form.

I don’t play WvW; all of my points are made primarily with PvE in mind.

Edit: For the record though, WvW should absolutely have the same skill/level/equipment availability as sPvP. In a perfect world, so would PvE – but I’m willing to tolerate having to level up, as long as it is to a permanent, fixed plateau, with a reasonable barrier of entry to have the maximum equipment.

[&Ag-gkAAA]

http://imgur.com/N1PBX

It’s way beyond any slight bump. “if that’s a blue then even the best will only add 20 condition damage”

how wrong could you be. Go look. This is in game now.

Angrec.6970:

Timebomb thats just with a blue infusion? Scary to think what a higher rank one would do. Would we be hitting around the 15 % mark with an exotic or ascendent infusion you think?

Yup. Blue infusion adds five(5) stat points. 218 * 0.023 = 5. In other words, 2.3% of an exotic ring is 5 more stat points. The increase is all but negligible IMO. I have no idea what the rarer infusion gems would have.

To estimate that, the best we can do is compare a rare lv80 gem to an exotic lv80 gem.
Exotic http://www.gw2db.com/items/20920-exquisite-chrysocola-jewel-s
Rare http://www.gw2db.com/items/26409-chrysocola-orb-s

The rare has 20+14+14 stats. The exotic has 25+15+15 stats. This is just under a 15% increase.
I think ascended items will have a larger difference than this. 5 * 1.15 (5 + 15%) is just under 6. I wouldn’t be all that surprised if exotic infusion gems added 20-30 stats, though anymore than that would be a bit overboard. After 40 stats from an infusion gem, I may start to QQ, heh.

Let’s assume that an exotic infusion gem gives 40 more stat points. That’d be more stats than I’d assume any gem would give, but that would make an ascended ring 29.5% more powerful than an exotic ring.

OEXTRA.1780:

Sylosi.6503:

OEXTRA.1780:

I’m greatly disjointed in how most of you forum gamers are behaving. Yeah sure the new armor rank has its ups and downs but why are ya’ll acting like it’s the end of the world? So what the stats are better, but not enough to make exotic obsolete. Hell I don’t even have full exotic yet, yet I have no problems completing any and all PvE content because (gasp) gear isn’t that important in this game. It helps, but this isn’t a heavily gear based game, so really as long as your build is good, and your wep is good enough, it’s all good..

Because they sold the game on the basis there would not be vertical gear progression nor a load of gear grind and that people could play it their own way (now people who stay will be forced to do dungeons to play WvW), which is why many of us bought it, within 3 months they have totally gone back on their word.

Also people don’t just PvE, we do WvW, once they’ve added ascended to all the slots it will make a big difference vs exotics.

Lots of us are quitting over this and I doubt this change is going to help the game that much, because many of the people it appeals to also like things like raids, specfic roles, addons, etc.

1. Exotics are top gear now….are people forced to get a full set for WvW? No….they’re not.
2. Wait till the content comes out to make such claims as “once they’ve added ascended to all the slots it will make a big difference vs exotics”.
3. If you want to overreact and quit before at least waiting for the content to come out, go ahead, but honestly it’s a tad ridiculous if you ask me.

1. Yes, they are if they want to be competitive. Otherwise they are cannonfodder. Yes those extra stats do make a big difference.

2. It’s the same difference between a guy in exotics now vs a guy in rares. Exotics have a distinct advantage and ascended will have an advantage as well.

3. It’s not an overreaction honestly. It’s 2 months into the live game and they are already going against their manifesto. They should have never put more stats on the items and infusions should have been completely fractal based boons. They screwed this up even after an outcry a few days ago when people learned about the gear.

ArenaNet needs to step up to the plate now. They need to rework ascended gear in about a day. They need to get more people working on classes/combat because the 2 that are currently working on it apparently cannot handle it. A new trait system that doesn’t force people into traits/stats they don’t want. They need to do some real work with WvW to make it far more indepth than it’s current shallow incarnation. All of this needs to come before they start doing more work on new content/gear progressions.

There is actually a very easy way for them to fix all of this so people cannot really complain. Change WvW to be linked to sPvP for gearing and things and just separate pve from every part of the pvp game.

As long as your pve gear grinders can go into WvW with an advantage there will be an issue.

Ryan.6951:

[&Ag-gkAAA]

http://imgur.com/N1PBX

It’s way beyond any slight bump. “if that’s a blue then even the best will only add 20 condition damage”

how wrong could you be. Go look. This is in game now.

You can’t get a % increase based on this ring’s stats because there is no other exotic ring that has all the same stat setup as this one. Let’s assume there was one, though. What stats would the exotic have? We can use some math to approximate this.

The ascended ring’s main stats are 31 points each, right? Six times. Well, the ascended ring w/ three stats has 72+51+51 points. Let’s average out the stats, 72, 51 and 51, and use that as a “weight” when we apply some math to exotic rings. That’s 58. 31 is 47% weaker than 58.

Now let’s look at an exotic ring and apply the same math. 67+48+48. As with the ascended ring, we’ll average these numbers out to get the “weight”. That’s about 53. 47% of 53 is about 28.

The difference? (28 * 6) vs (31 * 6). Thus this ascended ring you’re complaining about is roughly about 10.7% stronger than a potential exotic equivalent. Not including the gem or infusion gem, though. This number is very similar to my previous approximation (using real items) of 11%. Take a look at my previous posts for more info.

Crater.1625:

I don’t play WvW; all of my points are made primarily with PvE in mind.

Edit: For the record though, WvW should absolutely have the same skill/level/equipment availability as sPvP. In a perfect world, so would PvE – but I’m willing to tolerate having to level up, as long as it is to a permanent, fixed plateau, with a reasonable barrier of entry to have the maximum equipment.

If you primarily play PvE and are complaining about ascended gear (which doesn’t affect anything outside of one specific dungeon) then you are making a mountain out of a mole hill, “oh noes they added gear that has better stats, and that gear doesn’t affect anyone but me” is what it sounds like.

If you want the gear, you’ll do the content, if you don’t want the gear then you won’t do the content, if you do the content you’ll eventually get the gear whether you want it or not. Not having the gear doesn’t affect your experience outside of the dungeon (for a PvE player) and having the gear makes already easy (with exotics) content even easier assuming ~13.3% increase over exotic gear, but given that you can already complete all the content in the game with exotics you hardly NEED ascended gear, so what’s the argument really? That ANet added some gear with better stats than what you currently have and now you feel like you need to get that gear because STATS?

TimeBomb.3427:

about 10.7% stronger than a potential exotic equivalent.

if there was a trait that made you 10% more powerful, most people would take it.
if there was a trait that made you 10% weaker, everyone would avoid it.

just to accentuate what a 10% difference means.

Coffeebot.3921:

(which doesn’t affect anything outside of one specific dungeon)

lol

So huge stat gains aren’t useful in wvw and pve?

How is +75% utility not useful outside the dungeons?

Oh, and for the record, rare -> exotic armor is about a 13% increase in stats, no gem included. Thus an ascended ring w/ gem and w/ blue infusion gem has about the same percentage stat increase over an exotic ring as an exotic armor piece w/o gem has over a rare armor piece.

Dear ANet,

you made it quiet easy for me. I just deinstalled GW2. Have fun with one another WoW-Clon, i’m quiet sure, it will work just as fine as the other dozen clones.

Greetings

Ryan.6951:

Coffeebot.3921:

(which doesn’t affect anything outside of one specific dungeon)

lol

So huge stat gains aren’t useful in wvw and pve?

I said for a PvE player which excludes WvW (as the person that I was arguing with said they were primarily a PvE player) and the PvE content is basically split into two section, dungeons and world content, world content is already easy with exotic gear, and dungeons can be completed with exotic gear just fine, adding more powerful gear will only make it easier which has no real benefit except for skins.

If you’d read what I’d typed from the beginning then you’d have the knowledge that I already said that WvW is the only place this really affects, but the problem with that is the people who want to have the best stats in WvW will do the content regardless of what it is or where it is and the people that think they want the best gear (to “compete”) will try to get it before complaining about the difficulty. In PvP content skill makes more of a difference than gear, and only PvP novices think they need the best gear to compete.

Coffeebot.3921:

In PvP content skill makes more of a difference than gear, and only PvP novices think they need the best gear to compete.

i would disagree with this line.

when there is better and worse gear available for a pvp encounter, the person in better gear has a statistical advantage and the person in worse gear has a statistical disadvantage.

this is not opinion, it is a mathematical fact.

Coffeebot.3921:

Ryan.6951:

Coffeebot.3921:

(which doesn’t affect anything outside of one specific dungeon)

lol

So huge stat gains aren’t useful in wvw and pve?

I said for a PvE player which excludes WvW (as the person that I was arguing with said they were primarily a PvE player) and the PvE content is basically split into two section, dungeons and world content, world content is already easy with exotic gear, and dungeons can be completed with exotic gear just fine, adding more powerful gear will only make it easier which has no real benefit except for skins.

If you’d read what I’d typed from the beginning then you’d have the knowledge that I already said that WvW is the only place this really affects, but the problem with that is the people who want to have the best stats in WvW will do the content regardless of what it is or where it is and the people that think they want the best gear (to “compete”) will try to get it before complaining about the difficulty. In PvP content skill makes more of a difference than gear, and only PvP novices think they need the best gear to compete.

No, many WvWvW players will quit. Others will do the dungeons, but hate them. No one wants to go to WvWvW with crap gear. How is this fun again?

It affects every place in the game equally except for sPvP.

Having maxed out gear means that when you lose, you lose because you were insufficient as a player, and not because you were missing the last 10% HP that would have let you survive. And it means that when you win, you aren’t wasting time taking longer to kill and being less efficient than a maxed out character.

I have several characters at 100% maximum power. I won’t play again if they’re downgraded to less than 100%.

Coffeebot.3921:

I said for a PvE player which excludes WvW (as the person that I was arguing with said they were primarily a PvE player) and the PvE content is basically split into two section, dungeons and world content, world content is already easy with exotic gear, and dungeons can be completed with exotic gear just fine, adding more powerful gear will only make it easier which has no real benefit except for skins.

• Well, now it can be even easier with Ascended gear! Making world content and dungeons even easier IS an impact on PvE. Just because PvE is currently doable in exotics doesn’t mean that Ascended gear has no impact at all.

Coffeebot.3921:

If you’d read what I’d typed from the beginning then you’d have the knowledge that I already said that WvW is the only place this really affects, but the problem with that is the people who want to have the best stats in WvW will do the content regardless of what it is or where it is and the people that think they want the best gear (to “compete”) will try to get it before complaining about the difficulty.

• In other words, people who want to WvW competitively (because that’s what they find fun) will have to do the content so that they can get the gear needed to start on the WvW?

That is exactly what grinding is, and that is exactly what GW2 was against. Let me give you the quote:

“It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee. " – Mike O’Brien, Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto

just for instance.

warrior 1 has 20,000 health, 1000 power, and 50% crit rate
warrior 2 has 22,000 health, 1100 power, and 55% crit rate

warrior 2 is 10% superior in the three listed aspects

you run those 2 combatants through a simulator and warrior 2 will consistently win the majority of the encounters. you cant argue that he wont.

its a mathematical fact.

axiology.5807:

Coffeebot.3921:

If you’d read what I’d typed from the beginning then you’d have the knowledge that I already said that WvW is the only place this really affects, but the problem with that is the people who want to have the best stats in WvW will do the content regardless of what it is or where it is and the people that think they want the best gear (to “compete”) will try to get it before complaining about the difficulty.

• In other words, people who want to WvW competitively (because that’s what they find fun) will have to do the content so that they can get the gear needed to start on the WvW?

That is exactly what grinding is, and that is exactly what GW2 was against. Let me give you the quote:

“It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee. " – Mike O’Brien, Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto

Really? Because I interpret that as “We won’t require you to grind for levels” but it doesn’t say anything about gear OR levels, it just says a grinding treadmill… and that exactly fits what the legendary gear is… and the dungeons for gear… and the WvW gear (in relation to tokens) so really, it’s a bit late to complain about grinding.

Oh and competitive WvW doesn’t really exist, as there are FAR more factors than JUST gear which people seem to forget.

Fritz.5026

just for instance.

warrior 1 has 20,000 health, 1000 power, and 50% crit rate
warrior 2 has 22,000 health, 1100 power, and 55% crit rate

warrior 2 is 10% superior in the three listed aspects

you run those 2 combatants through a simulator and warrior 2 will consistently win the majority of the encounters. you cant argue that he wont.

its a mathematical fact.

Simulations are fine and dandy in a purely static environment, but simulations are comparatively mechanical in all aspects as they don’t account for individual skill (even if you use the caveat “assuming equal skill”).

Here’s an example; warrior one pops Frenzy, Endure Pain and Bullrush with Hundred Blades and kills Warrior two in 2 seconds, warrior two couldn’t do anything because warrior two doesn’t have any stun-breaker utilities.

We can play the argument/counter-argument game ALL DAY and it won’t make any difference, within one level of gear skill will always trump gear regardless of what simulations you run, because simulations can’t account for the human element.

Lets all wait and see how they really work first, before assuming anything.

Coffeebot.3921:

Simulations are fine and dandy in a purely static environment, but simulations are comparatively mechanical in all aspects as they don’t account for individual skill (even if you use the caveat “assuming equal skill”).

Here’s an example; warrior one pops Frenzy, Endure Pain and Bullrush with Hundred Blades and kills Warrior two in 2 seconds, warrior two couldn’t do anything because warrior two doesn’t have any stun-breaker utilities.

Both warriors have access to all the skills. Of course, a better player may still beat a not-so-good player. What if the better player has 10% better gear, though? Why do you seem to assume that the gear-advantage will be offset by a skill-advantage? Usually, those who play a lot (and get better gear first) are not the one who play worse, after all, they train more.

If we compare equipment, we must assume equal skill. Otherwise I could always argue that white gear is just as good as exotic, because if the player in white is any good, he can still kill a player in exotics who’s currently AFK.

Therefore, equipment that has higher stats gives you a statistical advantage.

Coffeebot.3921:

axiology.5807:

Coffeebot.3921:

If you’d read what I’d typed from the beginning then you’d have the knowledge that I already said that WvW is the only place this really affects, but the problem with that is the people who want to have the best stats in WvW will do the content regardless of what it is or where it is and the people that think they want the best gear (to “compete”) will try to get it before complaining about the difficulty.

• In other words, people who want to WvW competitively (because that’s what they find fun) will have to do the content so that they can get the gear needed to start on the WvW?

That is exactly what grinding is, and that is exactly what GW2 was against. Let me give you the quote:

“It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee. " – Mike O’Brien, Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto

Really? Because I interpret that as “We won’t require you to grind for levels” but it doesn’t say anything about gear OR levels, it just says a grinding treadmill… and that exactly fits what the legendary gear is… and the dungeons for gear… and the WvW gear (in relation to tokens) so really, it’s a bit late to complain about grinding.

Oh and competitive WvW doesn’t really exist, as there are FAR more factors than JUST gear which people seem to forget.

Legendary gear is cosmetic (until now at least). Crafted exotics are highly accessible to all players; they don’t require grind. Up till now, there have been accessible, no-grind gearing options.

Of course there are other factors in WvW. But you can’t brush off Ascended gear like that. There will always be other factors in everything. But as long as Ascended gear plays a part, it plays a part. You can’t disregard the impact of Ascended items because other factors are involved.

Zogyark.4597:

It appears that Arenanet has made their decision on which type of customers they’d like to keep.

Yeah, the dedicated ones.

I guess I have to change my rating for GW2 on amazon …

Bit worried but willing to see how it plays out.

Hmm, +5 condition damage… Is that it? Is that what infusions are all about?

I honestly thought it was going to be something more, something interesting, along the lines of…
- every fifth hit received, activate 2s of might
- when damage received equals 20% of max health, refill endurance
- whenever you take a critical hit, your next hit will be critical
- after being revived, your ability with the longest cooldown remaining will be restored
- when you are knocked down, adjacent enemies get’s pushed away
… you get the idea…
Maybe it could even have been something unique that we haven’t seen before.

Honestly, I thought the game was going to have more fun stuff like this to play around with, but there are far too much number crunching going on. I thought infusions was going to be different, but this just feels so… uninspiring. Color me unimpressed.

Edited some properties to be more ‘interesting’

Azjenco.9425:

Hmm, +5 condition damage… Is that it? Is that what infusions are all about.

I honestly thought it was going to be something new, something interesting, like…
- every fifth hit activates 2s of might
- when damage goes under 20%, gain 2s swiftness
- whenever you gain regen, the next hit will be critical
- after being revived, your ability with the longest cooldown remaining will be restored
- when you’re knocked down, adjacent enemies get’s pushed away
… you get the idea…
Maybe it could even have been something unique that we haven’t seen before.

But this just feels so… uninspiring. Color me unimpressed.

Don’t give them weird ideas like “Gaining 1s of Quickness after weapon swap” …

“…like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun…”

- Mike O’Brien 4/27/2010 "Guild Wars 2 Manifesto

cool story bro

This is a real shame. I’m looking at a game that just got a lot less fun for me.

I have no desire to grind, now ArenaNet is making it mandatory if I want to keep up with the Joneses. Sure, I could just let myself fall farther and farther behind…until the point where I can’t even take part in new content. My only choice if I want to continue playing this game is to start the long, slow grinding process now, in the hopes that I’ll be able to stomach it enough to not fall behind.

You just made a fun game into a job, for which I don’t get paid. My patience is wearing very thin.

I, for one, am loving the new ascended gear. Better stats? Would be kind of stupid without them. Good job Anet! Now if only all of you people claiming that you are quitting would do just that, the game would be vastly improved. I’m so tired of all the crying.

BTW, Anet never promised not to raised gear levels, in fact, they said they would consider doing just this for expansions. You all just hear what you want to hear.

Sorry, but that one is for the first level only. You can be sure that (since you need more Agony Resitance the deeper you go) that there will also exist a 10/10 and a 20/20 and so on. Keep in mind that the dungeon is endless, therefore we can up the stats endless, too. That created the perfect grindtreatmill…

http://i.imgur.com/MV1Vt.png

TimeBomb.3427:

So now we combine the two. 67 + 48 + 48 + 25 + 15 + 15 vs 72 + 51 + 51 + 32 + 18 + 18. Simple math one more time, and we now know that, not including the infusion gem, ascended rings have 11% more stats than exotic rings. The only infusion gems that appear to be released have 5 of one stat, not including agony resistance. If we add this into the equation, ascended rings WITH a blue infusion gem have 13.3% more stats than exotic rings.

As an aside, a rare level 80 ring has +59 +42 +42 stats. A rare level 80 orb has +20 +14 +14. Combine them and compare to an exotic ring + exotic jewel : the exotic has 14.1% more stats.

So the jump from exotic to ascended is pretty much the same as the jump from rare to exotic.. just a tiny bit less.

Lande.5782:

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

I say go ahead and feel broken and empty inside that Arenanet shattered your fragile expectations by providing you with what you begged for by coincidentally adding another tier to the gear level. Please, if you feel so strongly about it, stop playing the game and stop posting here. Rest assured, you won’t be missed.

I’ll wait out the WoW locusts, and hopefully ANet will come back to their senses.

I had the same thoughts unfortunately it seems heads are firmly in the sand. And the lack of response from them is unforgivable I’m so disappointed by ANet there must have been a management change or something I can’t believe devs with the original vision of the game in mind can think any of this is a good idea.

I hope I can tier up the infusions in the mystic forge: put in four identical infusion to yield the next tier. I want higher values than lousy +5. Around +30 would be fine. I want also ascended infusions with at least four offensive stats. I want to delve very deep into the fractions – and wake up the Balrog.

If its going to be better than exotic don’t you expect the new slot to help outside the new dungeon? else it would be waist of money.